S01.E12: Josh And I Work On A Case!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After the texting debacle, Rebecca attempts to recover by pursuing a case she thinks will bring her closer to Josh. Darryl tries to reconcile his feelings for White Josh, while Greg is obsessed with trying to uncover Rebecca's real motives for taking on the case.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8Dag3yISpA

[PodcastTown]

In that trailer I see Josh and Velveeta hugging and kissing in front of Josh's family. I'm guessing Josh proposed to her? Man this show is getting complex, it's crazy we get to have 6 more hour long episodes before season one is over. 

[PodcastTown]

I think this scene is from the Thanksgiving episode when Josh asked her to move in with him. Valencia is wearing the exact same dress that she wore in that episode. 

 

 Wow, good eye. That's actually kind of a relief. Rebecca still has a chance!!!!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

 

Clip:

[PodcastTown]

 

 

Clip:

Man that clip was super sad. You can tell she was feeling miserable and lonely and wanted to speak the truth but she just couldn't do it. Then comes along the ball buster busting Rebecca's balls when she had Josh all to her self. This show man, it hits you pretty hard.

[Trini]

Oh, Rebecca. I guess we learned nothing from the last episode?

[wayne67]

So I'm guessing she's lying to Josh about a coupon, a fake non existent boyfriend and probably something else in order to spend more time with him like a crazy stalker that she is. I am hoping she crashes and burns.

[Primetimer]

Rebecca's lies keep coming, but another character learns that the long-dormant truth can go in two directions.

Read the story

[Rinaldo]

So, getting a little more serialized from one episode to the next. Fine by me.

 

Hey White Josh! Call me!

 

I was literally gurgling aloud with joy during "No Hot Water."

[Rhetorica]

Best part was the Music Man spoof of "Ya Got Trouble". Loved the restaurant song too. Daryl's story and sewer dialogue was well done. I'm needing the story to move along...to somewhere, anywhere. It's becoming scheme of the week.

[Eyes High]

I can't believe Rebecca was initially willing to scuttle the settlement to spend more time with Josh. Worst lawyer EVER.

 

It's extremely contrived that Josh's IQ drops by about 50 points whenever Greg and Valencia attempt to persuade him about Rebecca. True, some of that can be chalked up to Josh's attraction to Rebecca, but it seemed as if he stopped listening whenever they pointed out something correct.

 

On the one hand, Josh is an adult who should normally be allowed to make his own decisions. On the other hand, Josh is so dumb and so trusting that I don't think it's out of line for Greg to interfere.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

Rebecca's attempting to find an excuse to spend time with Josh snowballing into a potential multi-million dollar lawsuit was a funny chain of events.  I like that the show has Rebecca consistently as a brilliant lawyer, even when her obsession with Josh is driving her actions.

 

Music-wise, we had the obvious The Music Man tribute, as well as an obvious riff on Shakira's "Whenever, Wherever" music video (the latter wasn't all visually interesting, but her confusion over the cultural specificity of the restaurant was quite funny).

 

Bisexuality (particularly in men) is not something that TV has tended to explore much (and handle well, even less so).  I thought the show's take on it was done well.

[Eyes High]

Rebecca's attempting to find an excuse to spend time with Josh snowballing into a potential multi-million dollar lawsuit was a funny chain of events.  I like that the show has Rebecca consistently as a brilliant lawyer, even when her obsession with Josh is driving her actions.

 

Rebecca has done several things a borderline competent lawyer would never do, let alone a "brilliant" one:

 

1. Drinking at work.

2. Sending text messages during an arbitration, let alone personal ones.

3. Taking on someone as a client out of a desire to advance a personal relationship.

4. Rejecting a settlement offer that would benefit her client for purely personal reasons.

 

Rebecca may have a brilliant legal mind, but she's an incompetent, and, more egregiously, unethical lawyer.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

Rebecca has done several things a borderline competent lawyer would never do, let alone a "brilliant" one.

Her analytical mind is top notch, even when her judgement is comically impaired.

[Eyes High]

Her analytical mind is top notch, even when her judgement is comically impaired.

 

She may have a brilliant legal mind, but she's not a "brilliant lawyer." She's incompetent and unethical.

 

Most lawyers are smart--many are even "brilliant"--but lawyers get reprimanded and even disbarred all the time. It's not enough to be brilliant. In fact, many lawyers fall flat on their faces in practice because they expect their brilliance to make up for their other shortcomings (including mental health issues, lack of self-discipline, lack of common sense, substance abuse issues, etc.). Lawyers need to conduct themselves responsibly and ethically to achieve a baseline level of competence, and Rebecca can't do that.

 

The show clings to the fiction that Rebecca is awesome at her job, but she isn't. She's a terrible lawyer, 165 IQ or not.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[jecibels]

So excited about Darryl and White Josh. 

 

I feel as though fan sentiments have become increasingly polarized between those sympathetic toward Rebecca and those who are losing all patience with her. I understand why people would be fed up, but I can't help but still have sympathy for her. I also found myself losing patience for Greg this episode. It's not so much that he doesn't trust Rebecca, because why should he? But obsessing over finding her faults is just as problematic as obsessing over her. If he's going to move on, he has to actually move on. I also had a lot of sympathy for Josh in this episode. Like, of course he wants to go along with Rebecca's plan because Valencia and Greg are always telling him they know better.

 

I feel like every single episode, I feel a little bit differently about each character. 

[Eyes High]

So excited about Darryl and White Josh. 

 

I feel as though fan sentiments have become increasingly polarized between those sympathetic toward Rebecca and those who are losing all patience with her. I understand why people would be fed up, but I can't help but still have sympathy for her. I also found myself losing patience for Greg this episode. It's not so much that he doesn't trust Rebecca, because why should he? But obsessing over finding her faults is just as problematic as obsessing over her. If he's going to move on, he has to actually move on. I also had a lot of sympathy for Josh in this episode. Like, of course he wants to go along with Rebecca's plan because Valencia and Greg are always telling him they know better.

 

I feel like every single episode, I feel a little bit differently about each character. 

 

Rebecca and Josh were both telling Greg or at least implying that the only reason he cared about Rebecca manipulating Josh with the case was due to him obsessing over Rebecca. Regardless of whether that is or isn't the case, that doesn't make Greg wrong. They're both throwing the ad hominem attack at him "You're only saying that because you're still not over Rebecca" because they don't have a response to the substance of his claim.

 

And really, if it weren't for Greg's history with Rebecca, would anyone be able to say anything against the substance of his accusations and his interfering to protect a dopey, trusting friend? Nope. And really, Greg's history with Rebecca buttresses his attempts to interfere. He knows Rebecca well enough due to their brief involvement that he knows how manipulative she is.

[SeanC]

The show clings to the fiction that Rebecca is awesome at her job, but she isn't.

I'm pretty sure the show is aware that a lot of this stuff is not ethical, etc. (e.g., trying to frame somebody to win a case).  I'm a lawyer myself, I don't have any illusion that she wouldn't be a complete mess at work (to an extent, she is even within the show's world).  But this is a comedy, first and foremost; in the show's comic reality, she's a brilliant lawyer, and I enjoy seeing her be good at what she does.

 

I also like that the show has given Rebecca a specialty in property/real estate-related law, and mainly stuck with that.

Edited February 23, 2016 by SeanC

[SeanC]

I feel as though fan sentiments have become increasingly polarized between those sympathetic toward Rebecca and those who are losing all patience with her. I understand why people would be fed up, but I can't help but still have sympathy for her.

I sympathize with her, but regardless, my main criterion for evaluating characters in a comedy is whether they're funny, which Rebecca consistently is.  I don't need her to be likeable all the time; much of the best comedy doesn't involve characters being likeable.

[Snarklepuss]

She may have a brilliant legal mind, but she's not a "brilliant lawyer." She's incompetent and unethical.

 

Most lawyers are smart--many are even "brilliant"--but lawyers get reprimanded and even disbarred all the time. It's not enough to be brilliant. In fact, many lawyers fall flat on their faces in practice because they expect their brilliance to make up for their other shortcomings (including mental health issues, lack of self-discipline, lack of common sense, substance abuse issues, etc.). Lawyers need to conduct themselves responsibly and ethically to achieve a baseline level of competence, and Rebecca can't do that.

 

The show clings to the fiction that Rebecca is awesome at her job, but she isn't. She's a terrible lawyer, 165 IQ or not.

 

I tend to agree - Mr. Snarklepuss is a lawyer and watched this episode with me.  He said it was going too far and both of us had a hard time suspending disbelief to "go there" with the show.  It's not like she hasn't been over the line before but this time it was a little too far over for me.  Not sure I love the way this episode went although as usual I did appreciate parts of it.  I know I'm not loving Greg's mean spiritedness, though.

 

I just realized that David Hull, who plays "White Josh" is the same actor that plays Sue's Abercrombie model love interest on "The Middle" that just announced on the most recent episode that he's considering the priesthood.  I knew he looked familiar!

[tennisgurl]

 

I just realized that David Hull, who plays "White Josh" is the same actor that plays Sue's Abercrombie model love interest on "The Middle" that just announced on the most recent episode that he's considering the priesthood.  I knew he looked familiar!

That has been bugging the crap out of me! Thank you! White Josh is turning out to be an awesome character. This show is really doing a great thing with Bro diversity. We have an Asian Bro, an Asian Priest Bro, and now a Gay Bro. 

 

Darrel and his realization that he is bi was amazing, and I hope the scene in his dancing fitness class gets used in many college Human Sexuality courses in the future. 

[Eyes High]

I'm pretty sure the show is aware that a lot of this stuff is not ethical, etc. (e.g., trying to frame somebody to win a case).  I'm a lawyer myself, I don't have any illusion that she wouldn't be a complete mess at work (to an extent, she is even within the show's world).  But this is a comedy, first and foremost; in the show's comic reality, she's a brilliant lawyer, and I enjoy seeing her be good at what she does.

 

In the show's reality, she is a mess as well; she's just inexplicably gotten a pass for it (not getting fired over the vodka debacle, not getting called out or fired by her client when caught texting during the arbitration, etc.). Those days might be coming to an end, though. I think Rebecca's ethical and practical shortcomings as a lawyer will be exposed, even if she's not about to be called up on the carpet anytime soon. Since Rebecca is blending her personal and her professional life now, and since her personal life is one disaster after another, it's only a matter of time before she experiences a big professional setback. Can't say I'm not looking forward to it, as the show's fiction that Rebecca is awesome at her job despite clearly sucking at her job is starting to grate.

[AlliMo]

Greg is seriously starting to grate. His instincts are spot on about Rebecca, yet he doesn't seem to see how he's starting to become just as obsessive as she is. He can say that he's just looking out for Josh, but he's shown himself to be a less than stellar friend to him. He's tolerated Valencia at best, has frequently expressed disdain for her, and has repeatedly urged Josh to reconsider his relationship with her. Yet, suddenly he's scheming with her? He's far too focused on a woman he went on ONE date with for a guy who's just declared himself ready to commit to a relationship with another woman. Get over it, dude.

 

Darryl and White Josh are adorable. I love how completely unphased WJ was over the course of Darryl's freakout.

[JustaPerson]

To be fair, I think ALL of Josh's friends have expressed dislike for Valencia. I can't remember which episode but I believed they used a table metaphor to try and get Josh to rethink moving in with her?

[possibilities]

White Josh is my favorite character.

[Eyes High]

Greg is seriously starting to grate. His instincts are spot on about Rebecca, yet he doesn't seem to see how he's starting to become just as obsessive as she is. He can say that he's just looking out for Josh, but he's shown himself to be a less than stellar friend to him. He's tolerated Valencia at best, has frequently expressed disdain for her, and has repeatedly urged Josh to reconsider his relationship with her. Yet, suddenly he's scheming with her? He's far too focused on a woman he went on ONE date with for a guy who's just declared himself ready to commit to a relationship with another woman. Get over it, dude.

 

It's not so sudden when you consider that Greg has intuited at some point since the events of 1x11 that Rebecca lied about the window episode and that it had something to do with getting closer to Josh. He already knew that she was seriously fucked up, but 1) faking a break-in as a seduction tactic plus 2) dragging Josh into a made-up legal dispute plus 3) lies about a boyfriend plus 4) Josh being incredibly stupid = extremely concerned Greg. Nothing Greg did was out of line for a concerned friend. He has every right to see Rebecca as not only fucked up but even dangerous. Frankly, if I were in Greg's position, and I had a kindhearted, stupid friend who was being aggressively pursued by someone I knew to be a manipulative liar, I would do everything in my power to interfere as well.

 

It's true Josh and Rebecca are eager to paint Greg's overinvolvement in the situation as Greg being still hung up on Rebecca to the point of pathetic obsession, but that's only because Rebecca knows that Greg is on to her, and because Josh is attracted to Rebecca and therefore reluctant to see her for what she is: to Josh, Rebecca can't be what Greg says, because if she is truly the manipulative, gaslighting liar that Greg believes she is, then Josh would have to stop spending time with her, and he doesn't want to do that. And even if they are correct, that Greg is only interfering in this instance because he's increasingly obsessed with Rebecca, he's still 100% right. His instincts about Rebecca are dead on, and he's right to act on them to protect his friend.

 

As for Valencia, she's no stranger to underhanded tactics (inviting Rebecca on the trip to the beach knowing that she would make a fool of herself), but I can see Greg viewing her as the lesser of two evils. He knows she's not the nicest person (he's called her vain), and not whom Greg would prefer for Josh (as he made clear when he urged Josh to reconsider his relationship with her using the "table" analogy), but whatever her issues, she's not the manipulative, disturbed, and even dangerous person that Greg now sees Rebecca to be.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[AlliMo]

Frankly, if I were in Greg's position, and I had a kindhearted, stupid friend who was being aggressively pursued by someone I knew to be a manipulative liar, I would do everything in my power to interfere as well.

 

 

That's the thing - I don't feel like Greg has done much of anything to show that he actually cares much about Josh or being a friend to him, and that's part of why his pretty accurate suspicions about Rebecca are being interpreted as being about his own personal grudge. Greg has layers, but so far the only person he's really shown any genuine concern for has been Rebecca herself, even when it keeps biting him in the ass.

[Irlandesa]

I think Greg represents three people right now.  One third of him is the very bitter guy who hates that he's hung up on Rebecca.  One third of him is the guy who is Josh's friend. (And I do think we've seen them as close friends...even if it's in the way they know how to get under each other's skin.) And the other third of him is the guy who actually cares about Rebecca.  All three of these guys knows that Rebecca is a liar.  Maybe a stalker.  The first guy wants to expose her for revenge.  The second guy wants to expose her to protect his friend.  And the third guy probably wants to expose her before things get even further out of hand because once her lies start to unravel, she's going to unravel. 

 

I'm not bi but the exercise class where Darryl realized he was bothsexual felt a little...I don't know...pat?  I think it's easier for me to believe that White Josh specifically awoke something inside of him rather than suddenly ogling the butts of two strangers and realizing he might swing both ways.  Either way, it makes me so happy they're exploring this.  I love White Josh and Darryl deserves to be happy.

[Eyes High]

so far the only person he's really shown any genuine concern for has been Rebecca herself, even when it keeps biting him in the ass.

 

That's not true.

 

1. He chastised Rebecca for messing around in a custody case to prove that she was a good person, as it was a real case involving a child.

2. He gave up his dreams of permanently quitting his job and moving away for business school in order to take care of his sick dad and refused to throw it in his dad's face or (as Rebecca would no doubt have done) brag about what a good guy he was for doing it.

3. He was the one who broached the subject of Josh getting rid of the "table." He didn't press the point, but he did raise it. If he didn't care about Josh, he would selfishly urge him to stay with Valencia so that Greg could woo Rebecca unimpeded. That he gently tried to nudge Josh to dump Valencia, knowing full well that Rebecca would be all over Josh the moment he was free, shows that he does in fact care about Josh and put Josh's welfare above his own.

 

Greg's a shithead, but he's a caring shithead. Your assertion that the only person for whom he's shown genuine concern is Rebecca is 100% wrong. The main cast is full of garbage people--meddling, judgmental shithead Greg, manipulative liar Rebecca, enabler Paula, vain and cruel Valencia, cowardly, stupid and weak Josh, etc.--but Greg has a working brain, a soul and a heart, which is more than I can say for the rest of them, who are lacking one or more of those essential elements.

 

Speaking of caring about Rebecca, Greg's sort of screwed himself over in that respect. He has refused to blab to other people, including Josh, about the details of Rebecca's more fucked up moments, out of what I imagine is delicacy for Rebecca's feelings (he was willing to call Rebecca a terrible person in front of Josh but refused to divulge the specifics). As a result, though, it will be that much harder to convince Josh that Rebecca is bad news than it would have been if Greg had been feeding him a steady diet of the specifics of Rebecca's crazy.

 

I'm not bi but the exercise class where Darryl realized he was bothsexual felt a little...I don't know...pat?

The whole plotline was pat, forced, and fairly dated. It felt like an afterschool special on bisexuality. Very poor. Representation is great. Patronizing pandering? Not so much.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[HunterHunted]

Rebecca has done several things a borderline competent lawyer would never do, let alone a "brilliant" one:

 

1. Drinking at work.

2. Sending text messages during an arbitration, let alone personal ones.

3. Taking on someone as a client out of a desire to advance a personal relationship.

4. Rejecting a settlement offer that would benefit her client for purely personal reasons.

 

Rebecca may have a brilliant legal mind, but she's an incompetent, and, more egregiously, unethical lawyer.

Here's the thing that gets me about Rebecca rejecting the settlement, the lawsuit is a class action, though a small class. The show made a big deal of her recruiting tenants to join the suit. It then made a point to have Paula explain how much the plaintiffs would get in the settlement, but the show still allowed Rebecca to unilaterally reject the settlement. The show writes her plot in such a way that even when she's a manipulative liar things tend to work out in her favor. Hopefully, her series of choices in this episode burn her.

[AlliMo]

I don't agree that Greg has shown any genuine interest in or concern for the people who are supposed to be his friends, unless you see condescenscion and judgement as caring. I don't even see his urging Josh to jettison Valencia as concern for Josh as much as he finds her annoying and would prefer not to have to deal with her. I don't think he's supposed to be a terrible person, but he does seem written as someone who only hangs out with the group of people that he does because he's known them most of his life and they're in the same place he considers himself as being stuck in. Of course, other people may think otherwise but that doesn't make them wrong, it just means that they see it differently.

[wayne67]

It's official I now hate Paula and Rebecca. I just can't take plotting to burn someone as funny. It's not. That crossed the moral event horizon for me. Their obsession with mixed race babies with someone she's not dating is absurd and creepy and she needs to be locked up immediately.

 

As for White Josh I loved his little aside when the others were trying to convince Josh he was smart enough not to fall for her lies and stalking with a 'Is he?'

 

At least White Josh has an accurate take on Josh's stupidity.

 

On a lighter note it was funny when Daryl walks into the office and is not the slightest bit miffed that the whole office has been turned upside down for some weird Apollo 13 homage.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It was so awesome to see Alistair from Huge (a very underrated show by Winnie Holzman, who created My So-Called Life and also wrote the book for the musical version of Wicked)!

 

I love that they are continuing to mix musical homages both visually and musically while also having topics that are unrelated to the originals. Rebecca as Shakira, her confusion over what kind of food Jalapeno Jack's was actually serving, the Music Man, all so fun! The guys looked like they were having so much fun during "Group Hang."

 

I noticed that Rebecca said she was never going to lie to Josh again AFTER she had already lied to him about the coupon and having a new boyfriend.

 

Poor White Josh. I felt so bad for him while he was politely listening to Darryl's "You're GAY? I'm not GAY!" freak out. At least she told Paula she wouldn't lie about a lawsuit or burn him with coffee. So there IS a line that Rebecca won't cross!

 

Props to Valencia for tracking down Harvard Trent. But how did she get him to come over without explaining why? I'm just saying that if some random stranger found me on the internet and asked me to come over to their house without telling me why, that would be a definite no (see: "Sex with a Stranger" and paranoia about being murdered by strangers). I guess you could always argue that if some hot chick on the internet asked some guy to come to her house, he'd probably say yes.

[wayne67]

 At least she told Paula she wouldn't lie about a lawsuit or burn him with coffee. So there IS a line that Rebecca won't cross!

 

Props to Valencia for tracking down Harvard Trent. But how did she get him to come over without explaining why? I'm just saying that if some random stranger found me on the internet and asked me to come over to their house without telling me why, that would be a definite no (see: "Sex with a Stranger" and paranoia about being murdered by strangers). I guess you could always argue that if some hot chick on the internet asked some guy to come to her house, he'd probably say yes.

 

The second time Paula brought up burning him Rebecca didn't say no, she tilted her head and looked like she was considering it. The fact that Paula brings it up twice says nothing good about her sanity or sense of morality.

That part didn't really make any sense. Wouldn't the first question be. Do you know Rebecca? If he answered no then they'd have proof. Why did they need him to show up at all ? 

This show is quickly becoming like Ally McBeal, so far fetched that it's straining my ability to enjoy the musical numbers.

[Snarklepuss]

The whole plotline was pat, forced, and fairly dated. It felt like an afterschool special on bisexuality. Very poor. Representation is great. Patronizing pandering? Not so much.

 

I've been trying to figure out what bothered me about the Daryl/Josh subplot and I'm still not sure it's this but I do think it felt a little "pat" as Irlandesa said.  Daryl may be a kind of knee-jerk character but perhaps I don't like the subject of homosexuality treated that way?  I don't know.  Perhaps I don't think it should be trivialized so much?  No one skewer me, I'm not really sure what I mean here anyway.

[Jillybean]

Count me among those who initially loved the show and are now ready to bail.

[Corgi-ears]

Greg is seriously starting to grate. His instincts are spot on about Rebecca, yet he doesn't seem to see how he's starting to become just as obsessive as she is....He's far too focused on a woman he went on ONE date with for a guy who's just declared himself ready to commit to a relationship with another woman. Get over it, dude.

 

 

So we might say that Greg's a bit of a...crazy ex-boyfriend? I think that's the point the show is making, or at least the path it's going down -- setting up a rough parallel between Rebecca and Greg, balancing the titular (hee!) character with a male counterpart (and thereby addressing, as it already does in the title song, the potential misogyny of its central concept).

Edited February 23, 2016 by Corgi-ears

[STOPSHOUTING]

I agree with Adam Grosswirth just about 100%, and he said it far better than I could. While I liked the Oceans 11-level plotting by Paula, involved in gerrymandering a romantic evening that turned into a group hang -- and the running joke of questioning Jalapeno Jack's cuisine was very funny -- there should definitely have been way more consequences, even in the cartoon reality that is Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, from Josh's realization that Rebecca was lying to him about the "break in" just last week. While I would have enjoyed this episode before "That Text Was Not Meant for Josh," it absolutely felt like an unearned reset button immediately following.

Daryl and WyJosh, and his very blase "coming out," were, by far, the best parts of the episode, and the whole "it's no big deal, everyone knows" was so very, very good and true and relatable and great to see on a primetime network show. I don't know if I root for them as a couple -- isn't WyJosh like, WAAAAYYY out of Daryl's league? -- but I love what that "do we call him Straight Greg?" conversation means, especially in a show that literally calls this character "White Josh."

Edited February 23, 2016 by STOPSHOUTING

[quangtran]

Greg is seriously starting to grate. His instincts are spot on about Rebecca, yet he doesn't seem to see how he's starting to become just as obsessive as she is. He can say that he's just looking out for Josh, but he's shown himself to be a less than stellar friend to him. He's tolerated Valencia at best, has frequently expressed disdain for her, and has repeatedly urged Josh to reconsider his relationship with her. Yet, suddenly he's scheming with her?

I feel the opposite, because I've been hoping for a long time for Greg and Valencia to team up against Rebecca. Valencia can see that Bex is trying to steal her boyfriend and Greg knows that Bex is crazy, so it makes sense for the people closest to him would warn him against the CEG.

 

The Daryl story turned out a lot better than expected. I've hard so many opinions about how bi people are often forgotten and how many people still don't think it's a real thing. 

[STOPSHOUTING]

I agree with Adam Grosswirth just about 100%, and he said it far better than I could. While I liked the Oceans 11-level plotting by Paula, involved in gerrymandering a romantic evening that turned into a group hang -- and the running joke of questioning Jalapeno Jack's cuisine was very funny -- there should definitely have been way more consequences, even in the cartoon reality that is Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, from Josh's realization that Rebecca was lying to him about the "break in" just last week. While I would have enjoyed this episode before "That Text Was Not Meant for Josh," it absolutely felt like an unearned reset button immediately following.

 

Super dorky to quote myself, I know, but I saw this tweet from Rachel Bloom and it sort of makes the above make more sense. She says this episode's case plot was originally intended to be the SECOND of the series, and they held it. Hmm, maybe that wan't a great idea as it definitely seemed out of sync. 

 

https://twitter.com/Racheldoesstuff/status/701983175426224128

[Eyes High]

I don't agree that Greg has shown any genuine interest in or concern for the people who are supposed to be his friends, unless you see condescenscion and judgement as caring. 

Greg urging Josh to jettison Valencia happened when he saw Josh struggling with the table, and that gesture went directly against Greg's own interests (at that time he was still spending a lot of time with Rebecca and hung up on her). That is the essence of caring.

 

Greg also showed genuine concern over Josh being manipulated by Rebecca. I saw nothing of "condescension and judgment" in his attempts to warn off Josh but rather an attempt to protect his friend from a manipulative liar. Greg can be plenty judgmental and plenty condescending, but your reading of the show as Greg not having shown any genuine interest or concern in his friends just isn't supported.

 

It's official I now hate Paula and Rebecca. I just can't take plotting to burn someone as funny. It's not. That crossed the moral event horizon for me. 

I think the problem with the showrunners' description of Rebecca as a "bubbly Walter White" is that they're forgetting what made Walter White compelling and rootable in the first place. Walter White was up against murderers, drug lords and ruthless psychopaths; even Hank, his DEA brother-in-law, was condescending and patronizing to Walt. It made the audience root for Walt to come out on top in a battle of wits and to deploy his fearsome intellect against his antagonizers.

 

With Rebecca, the people she's fucking with are good, innocent, trusting people who stand to suffer a lot from her fuckery (Darryl and his custody case, the plaintiffs in the lawsuit she refused to settle to spend more time with Josh, Josh's family she wanted to use as a tool to get Josh to like her, Josh himself, etc.). Watching her lie to them and manipulate them doesn't provide a vicarious thrill for the audience the way Walt's antics did on Breaking Bad, because her targets don't deserve to be lied to and manipulated.

 

I've been trying to figure out what bothered me about the Daryl/Josh subplot and I'm still not sure it's this but I do think it felt a little "pat" as Irlandesa said.  Daryl may be a kind of knee-jerk character but perhaps I don't like the subject of homosexuality treated that way?  I don't know.  Perhaps I don't think it should be trivialized so much?  No one skewer me, I'm not really sure what I mean here anyway.

I think I understand what you're getting at. I didn't like it either.

 

Count me among those who initially loved the show and are now ready to bail.

Yup. This show had such promise, too.

 

Rebecca and her main relationships are so toxic and dysfunctional, and not in a cute or funny way. The show sort of implicitly applauding her cheerfully fucking over other people to get closer to Josh is the worst. It's one thing not to cast judgment on Rebecca, but to ask us to root for her to get Josh through lying and manipulating several people? Yeah, not happening.

 

So we might say that Greg's a bit of a...crazy ex-boyfriend? I think that's the point the show is making, or at least the path it's going down -- setting up a rough parallel between Rebecca and Greg, balancing the titular (hee!) character with a male counterpart

It's a false equivalence, though, at least in this instance, because Greg's not doing anything that a caring friend wouldn't do. Rebecca and Josh are trying to suggest that he's obsessive and that's why he's interfering, but there's nothing in 1x12 to suggest that that's the case. Rather, it's hinted that Rebecca is painting Greg as obsessive because she knows he's on to her, and that Josh is tuning out Greg because he doesn't want to confront the unpleasant reality of what Rebecca's about.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[PodcastTown]

The songs were on point yet again. Another home run episode I think. The more crazier Rebecca gets, the better the show is for me. I love when she goes on her psychotic tangents. 

Count me among those who initially loved the show and are now ready to bail.

Why?

[HunterHunted]

The songs were on point yet again. Another home run episode I think. The more crazier Rebecca gets, the better the show is for me. I love when she goes on her psychotic tangents.

Why?

I can tell you why this show increasingly puts me off. Rebecca is a deluded manipulative asshole who thinks nothing of wrecking the lives of others to get to Josh, who will not solve all of her problems. Valencia sucks, but she's a normal kind of suck. And though Josh won't admit it, he puts up with Valencia's shallow bullshit so he can bang a hot girl. For the most part Valencia is pretty honest with Josh. However, Rebecca has never had an honest interaction with Josh after they bumped into each other in NYC. She has lied and manipulated at every turn. The fact that she turned down the settlement without consulting all of her clients just to keep hanging with Josh is unconscionable.

I find Paula, who is just as unhinged as Rebecca, to be slightly more sympathetic because she's been able to display real affection for Rebecca and her husband and real dissatisfaction with her marriage. It makes her faith in the righteousness of the Josh and Rebecca goal understandable because she had love deprivation in her life.

But Rebecca has fixated on Josh and doesn't seem to care who she hurts to get him. And the show needs to have her stop coming out on top.

However, Jane The Virgin has had nearly every character lie and manipulate, but it does a much better job at showing the real feelings and emotions that motivated the characters' actions.

Edited February 23, 2016 by HunterHunted

[taragel]

It was so awesome to see Alistair from Huge (a very underrated show by Winnie Holzman, who created My So-Called Life and also wrote the book for the musical version of Wicked)!

 

I KNOW! He was the best on HUGE, and I was so glad to see him. There was also a really funny BTS story about how they basically realized he was literally cast to play himself (he's the real life friend of the real-life Josh inspiration but no one knew that when they cast him).

 

I also liked that we got to see Michael Hitchcock (one of the show's writers) as the sewer man. They give good cameo on this show. Looking forward to the guest stars coming up as well.

 

As for me, I'm generally good with letting the comedy/surreality of the show trump logic/compassion/professionalism for Rebecca most of the time. I did think they should have skipped/cut that one little whiny freakout about the case not being over yet so she can spend time with Josh anymore to Paula BEFORE she went to the "Hey wait if they're offering a lot now--there has to be more to this." I mean it would've been a small change that made the whole thing way more likable/redeemable. But...do I really care if she's screwing over extras we've barely met in order to pursue her crazy obsession with Josh? Uh...no? That's what the show is about? She's going to go to some really dark lengths before they turn her around. Rachel said in an interview that Rebecca is going to grow/evolve very very slowly because they want the show to last a while. And for a comedy...that's pretty on-par. People don't learn things in a comedy very often tbh. If it was a drama...that'd be a different story. I'd be way more frustrated with no/super-slow growth.

 

I do see how if this was originally slotted to be the second episode, it makes sense that it felt like a "same ole'" mistake. They should have changed it up more to logically progress from the previous episode. 

 

But I always root for Rebecca (and Josh) regardless of if I should/if they're good people/etc. I hope that Trent dude immediately is like "BABE!" after those kisses. Heh. 

 

Also White Josh is awesome from his matter-of-fact telling Daryl to leading the conga line at Jalapeno Jack's. We need more White Josh. And maybe less Greg? I do admit to being a little tired of him. I agree though that they're basically making him more and more insane/obsessive over Rebecca to turn him into her male counterpart. 

[PodcastTown]

^ I like your points. I think the main core of the show is that it's a subversive dark comedy. The more twisted it is the better. It's not that her actions are showcased to be believable but in my opinion it's aiming to be a comedy at heart. She's the antagonist while the supporting cast seemed to be the good ones. I'm not rooting for her that's for sure. I'm laughing at how absurd it is.

Edited February 23, 2016 by PodcastTown

[Eyes High]

^ I like your points. I think the main core of the show is that it's s subversive dark comedy. The more twisted it is the better. It's not that her actions are showcased to be believable but in my opinion it's aiming to be a comedy at heart. She's the antagonist while the supporting cast seemed to be the good ones. I'm not rooting for her that's fit sure. I'm laughing at how absurd it is.

 

That's the problem. If you're going to go as dark as this show is going, you need to balance out the darkness with comedy, and right now the show isn't funny enough. Moreover, the show hasn't found its tone yet, wildly swinging between painful emotional truth and sociopathic hijinx. If you have everyone cheerfully act like assholes, you can't throw in any moments of emotional resonance or power, because it throws off the tone. This show wants to have its cake and eat it too: have us care about the characters as human beings reflecting deep and powerful emotional truths ("You Stupid Bitch") but not care about the damage they deliberately and even gleefully inflict on other characters, because, hey this is a comedy. Doesn't work, sorry. You can have either wacky, irresponsible, meaningless and sociopathic (It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia) or you can have a show where the damage characters do to each other and themselves is always acknowledged and where characters grow and change (The Office). They can't have it both ways. 

 

The show wants us to ignore Rebecca's actions and forgo the handwringing over her unethical and even illegal activities and sociopathic lack of concern for others as we would the gang in It's Always Sunny, but the show also wants us to care about her troubles and treat her as a serious character struggling with real, human problems. Again, they can't have it both ways. 

 

As it is, the show is veering closer to the "These are real people with real problems" track than the "These are cartoons whose actions shouldn't be taken any more seriously than Wile E. Coyote being sent over a cliff by Bugs Bunny." As a result, Rebecca's antics aren't amusing, they're disturbing. If the show abandons any pretense of emotional seriousness or emotional realism and goes over to the It's Always Sunny dark side where everything is absurd, everyone is irredeemably awful and nothing can be taken seriously, that would be fine, but they haven't as of yet, as "You Stupid Bitch" indicates. As long as the show keeps clinging to the pretense of psychological realism and emotional truth, there will be very little that's amusing about Rebecca's delusional manipulations of others.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[Jillybean]

Why?

 

I no longer find it funny, and I don't care about any of the characters.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Jillybean

[SeanC]

As it is, the show is veering closer to the "These are real people with real problems" track than the "These are cartoons whose actions shouldn't be taken any more seriously than Wile E. Coyote being sent over a cliff by Bugs Bunny." As a result, Rebecca's antics aren't amusing, they're disturbing. If the show abandons any pretense of emotional seriousness or emotional realism and goes over to the It's Always Sunny dark side where everything is absurd, everyone is irredeemably awful and nothing can be taken seriously, that would be fine, but they haven't as of yet, as "You Stupid Bitch" indicates. As long as the show keeps clinging to the pretense of psychological realism and emotional truth, there will be very little that's amusing about Rebecca's delusional manipulations of others.

I don't really have a problem with the show balancing those two aspects.  I find they do it well.

[Eyes High]

I don't really have a problem with the show balancing those two aspects.  I find they do it well.

 

They really, really don't. Thus the complaints on this thread and elsewhere about Rebecca going "too far" and never learning anything. People don't by and large complain about, say, Patsy and Edina going "too far" or never learning anything because that's the whole point of the characters. The writers have in their cowardice refused to commit to either all-out absurdist silliness or to serious character arcs balanced by comedy and the cracks are showing. Either would be fine, but they need to pick one. What they're doing now is not working.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[PodcastTown]

I no longer find it funny, and I don't care about any of the characters.

Fair enough.