S05.E15: Tick Tock

[yeswedo]

With things looking bad for the firm, Louis mulls over Anita Gibbs' offer to turn on his compatriots in exchange for immunity. Meanwhile, Rachel gives Mike advice on how best to win hearts and minds in the courtroom. As the pressure mounts, Donna pleads with Harvey to not do anything rash, even as Jessica encourages him to do so. And Harvey and Mike look to a new, last-ditch strategy to win the case ... but as they run out of moves to play and deals to make, they face the possibility of putting Mike's fate in the last place they want it - the hands of a jury.

[Congo]

All this angst and hand-wringing for a guy who is actually guilty. Not to mention all of his guilty accomplices. He's not even that nice of a guy! So over it.

[Jediknight]

Harvey was willing to destroy an innocent person's life to get Mike off, and then said he was now only going to use guilty people to do it.  Mike's guilty, for crying out loud trying to destroy a life and committing a felony aren't something you should be doing.  Okay, granted Harvey's been committing a felony for years.

 

Mike's closing statement would nuke the firm.  It doesn't matter what the verdict is, or what deal he made, PSL's clients would have heard and would be looking to get out, opposing firms would make sure everyone knows, and everyone who lost to Harvey or Mike in that time would be ready to take them to trial.  Mike's statement for all intents and purposes should destroy the firm.

[Nanrad]

TBH, the only reason I don't want Mike to go to jail is because it would that mean everyone else going to jail as well as screwing over his clients. I honestly don't give a shit about Mike going to jail. As much as I hate to admit it, Harvey is responsible for this mess, but Mike is as well and everyone else who didn't report Mike after they found out. 

 

And the lawyer dude Mike took the LSATS for, he's guilty too. He should NOT be a lawyer and needs to be reported regardless. I'd rather have a fraud lawyer represent who took the LSATS for other lawyers than have a lawyer who paid someone else to take his test. At least I'd know with the fraud that he'd knew that basics of law, where as you'd have no clue with the other person once you found out. 

 

But, ultimately, just about everyone is full of it because they are all guilty in some way. 

 

But, I liked that Harvey was going to turn himself in even though he wanted to be talked out of it.

[themadman]

It really is hard to feel any sympathy for these characters. All of them are fucked up in some way and more importantly, all complicit in the fraud. I wish the show's premise had been different. So sick of all this soap opera nonsense.

[Good Queen Jane]

I thought I had made peace with the fact that the Suitsiverse had no basis in legal reality, but, people, federal court is for trying people for federal offenses and selling 2 TVs, even stolen ones, is NOT a federal offense. (of course, as I've said before, neither is what Mike has been charged with, but I've accepted that.) Federal trials are in federal courthouses, state offenses are tried in state courthouses and never the twain shall meet.

 

And if Jessica and Harvey want a mistrial, why don't they bring up the fact that the US attorney violated a restraining order and approached Louis? Prosecutorial misconduct is always a good way to get a mistrial if not an outright dismissal. Since the restraining order was mentioned in the previouslies, I really thought that's where they were going.

 

One more episode and then our long national nightmare will be over (please).

Edited February 25, 2016 by Good Queen Jane

[PiggyRod]

I don't even know heads from tail in this mess anymore.

 

Honestly, like I don't know what I want to see but it is definitely not this.  Mike IS guilty as charged and everyone bending over trying to cover that fact is aiding and abiding.  I wish there was another way they could solve it and come out looking good but I doubt it.

[grannygeek]

 

I wish the show's premise had been different. So sick of all this soap opera nonsense.

 

It coulda been. And ditto.

[jmonique]

Do you think the cast and writers have a bet on how many times they can use "God damn" in the show?

Beyond that, the only thing I was struck by are the same things that have distracted me all season:

1. The prosecutor might as well be twirling a mustache, she's written so smug and "out to get" Mike & Co. -- for EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE GUILTY OF.

 

2. Only Mike would be such an arrogant little bastard that he'd take a case while waiting to hear the jury's decision on whether he's guilty of PRETENDING TO BE A LAWYER.

 

3. We're supposed to be warmed by the staff's obvious loyalty to one another, except for the fact that we see them paired off in all these little discussions about who was wrong and who should or shouldn't cop a plea.

 

And in the end? They're all guilty of doing exactly what they're accused of doing.

[jette]

This was a premise that, from the very beginning, seemed so farfetched I wondered how many seasons it could support. And still it continues...(while I'm forced to mourn psych and watch my dvds. USA, you are twisted)

 

Every time someone uttered a variation of "Harvey doesn't lose", "Harvey's the best closer" last night, both the hubs and I said, well except for that time he...

 

How can Pearson, Spector, Litt still be practicing law after all their tomfoolery? Every episode not centered around "the secret" has them failing at something.

 

I used to love Louis, but he's got no pokerface whatsoever. And as an engineer, not a lawyer, I just don't understand all of the admission of guilt and deal/offers going around with Gibbs. How can everyone associated with PSL basically admit they knew about 'the secret" to try to get a deal, then recant when said deal isn't good enough?!

[catrice2]

Oh gosh, I used to love this show How did we get here?  The clothes are bad, they don't know what to do with Gretchen...what happens to the guy that lied about Mike being at Harvard?  So much wrong here.  It would be impossible to believe Jessica could salvage her firm.....ok...can Mike wake up in the shower like Dallas?

[ComfySweater]

The only person I still genuinely like is Donna. She needs a wakeup call and a job offer somewhere sane. She's too good for this mess. 

 

The rest is all melodrama. Are we supposed to feel for all these protagonists who, as many have pointed out, did exactly what they're accused of doing? They are wrong. They can sit there in their wrongness and be wrong. Anybody "out to get them" is probably right. They're trying to squirm out of the consequences of their actions.

 

This feels like the wrongheaded version of what Leverage got right. They knew Sterling was always right, should always win, and was the protagonist of his own show. Here they seem less self-aware of who is the protagonist in her own show because she's actually right. They all did it. She's the hero of her own show. It's not even a bad show were somebody to make it. I'd probably watch it. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

And the lawyer dude Mike took the LSATS for, he's guilty too. He should NOT be a lawyer and needs to be reported regardless. I'd rather have a fraud lawyer represent who took the LSATS for other lawyers than have a lawyer who paid someone else to take his test. At least I'd know with the fraud that he'd knew that basics of law, where as you'd have no clue with the other person once you found out. 

 

 

The lawyer Mike took the LSATs for still went through law school, still passed the bar, and so forth.

 

He would have failed the character & fitness part of the bar if it was known, but I honestly think if there were a situation like this that came out the person might not be disbarred. Also, I doubt he would be criminally prosecuted.

 

I thought I had made peace with the fact that the Suitsiverse had no basis in legal reality, but, people, federal court is for trying people for federal offenses and selling 2 TVs, even stolen ones, is NOT a federal offense. (of course, as I've said before, neither is what Mike has been charged with, but I've accepted that.) Federal trials are in federal courthouses, state offenses are tried in state courthouses and never the twain shall meet.

 

And if Jessica and Harvey want a mistrial, why don't they bring up the fact that the US attorney violated a restraining order and approached Louis? Prosecutorial misconduct is always a good way to get a mistrial if not an outright dismissal. Since the restraining order was mentioned in the previouslies, I really thought that's where they were going.

 

One more episode and then our long national nightmare will be over (please).

 

The whole federal court thing was weird. The judge said something about the Justice Department not having jurisdiction in the case. So I don't know who was supposed to be running the prosecution. The notion that there was a wiretap is something that state prosecutors probably wouldn't do. Anyway, I suppose we could have some greater conspiracy afoot that crossed state lines for hot TVs that these randos were allegedly part of.

 

The "Donna, call up your friend so we can get the jurors' names" was ridiculous. Both sides would have access to the names of the jurors when choosing the jury panel. 

 

The notion of "let's force a mistrial by having the junior prosecutor buy one a cup of coffee" would probably not work either as they tell jurors not to interact with the lawyers at all.

 

The notion of "she isn't authorized to retrial after a mistrial" doesn't make sense, since it's not like that's a decision prosecutors would make in advance.

 

Yeah, with there being no shortage of prosecutorial misconduct to choose from, it should be pretty easy to get a mistrial if they want one.

 

 

I used to love Louis, but he's got no pokerface whatsoever. And as an engineer, not a lawyer, I just don't understand all of the admission of guilt and deal/offers going around with Gibbs. How can everyone associated with PSL basically admit they knew about 'the secret" to try to get a deal, then recant when said deal isn't good enough?!

 

From my understanding, discussions in connections to plea agreements can't be used against a potential defendant. Otherwise, you pretty much could never make a plea agreement without fear of the prosecutor yanking it away and then using it as an admission of guilt.

[Dowel Jones]

One more episode and then our long national nightmare will be over (please).

 

New USA series starting this fall:  Jailhouse Lawyer.

[bros402]

The plea deal Mike arranges should be that he pleads guilty to fraud for taking the SATs for other people. He is expelled from the NY Bar, goes to jail for 2 years (Gets out after 14 months due to good behavior), does a JD online, and helps people in jail with their legal matters and becomes popular in the prison. He returns, helps them with their legal matters, then the Bar takes notice of his actions with helping people in legal matters, they offer him a conditional acceptance to the bar based on him doing pro bono cases for a while - so they'll have some kind of thing dangling over his head for drama(!)

[Chicago Redshirt]

I love how Mike is like "I should have used my talent to help the little guy and that's just what I'm going to do after this trial, no matter what the outcome."

 

And then he's like, "So I'll plead out and never practice law again!"

 

I actually do hope that they do recast the series as Mike trying to help the little guy.

[lorbeer]

I don't even take any guesses. What happens, happens. I'm sick and tired they still bring up "Mike is a fraud" after 5 seasons later. I know this is how it started but it's boring now. And yes - I do realize that perhaps I shouldn't watch it.

But I still like the show. I liked that Donna stood up to Harvey, though I don't ;ike her character like from the very beginning.

Jessica for once was very likeable - as she is lately.

 

So, let's see what happens.

[Carolina Girl]

 

From my understanding, discussions in connections to plea agreements can't be used against a potential defendant. Otherwise, you pretty much could never make a plea agreement without fear of the prosecutor yanking it away and then using it as an admission of guilt.

 

Yes, just like the details of pre-trial settlement negotiations are not permitted to be used in civil trials.  

[Kloie]

I'm just hate watching the show at this point.  It's like a large-scale prisoner's dilemma, and it baffles me that not one of the PSL lawyers would turn on the other.  But I guess they are so loyal (read - stupid) that they aren't worried about their own butts.  Instead they will all risk their own lives and careers, as well as the livelihood of all of the others employed by a firm with three criminals for name partners, to protect a jerky guy who is actually guilty.  

 

Also, was I the only one (in addition to my husband) who was astounded that everyone said how great Mike was at the trial? It was ridiculous how bad that case was. 

[FormerMod-a1]

While Rachel is not my favorite character (although I have been liking her more and more), I have no idea what she sees in Mike or why she stays with him.  She's bringing it, in terms of acting, I feel for her, but what does she see in him?  Of course I never saw what they saw in each other, in general, but she's much more of a catch than he is. 

 

And yay, Donna dialed down the Smuggy McSmuggerson act for a change.  

 

Way too much angst and crying this ep.  

 

Maybe Mike and Rachel can go off and practice law helping the people that can't afford it/need it; and Pearson, Spectre and LItt can get back to working on cases that don't involve themselves.

[chitowngirl]

So the only way for everyone to go on with their lives intact is for Mike to be found not guilty? A mistrial means they can try him again anytime in the future and they can always go after anyone in the firm with their knowledge that Mike is a fraud?

[movado23]

When did this show turn into such a really bad soap opera ? What a waste of an entire season.

[Slovenly Muse]

Wow, I'm surprised to see so many people upset about all the fuss being made over guys who are actually guilty! From everything I've seen on these boards over the past few (increasingly dismal) seasons, I thought this is what everyone would want! Finally, Mike and Harvey face the music for what they've done. This isn't about wanting them to get away with it because they "deserve" to, and shrugging off the fact that they're guilty. The showrunner knows they're guilty (and has pointed out in interviews that Anita Gibbs is right, making her kind of the unsung hero of the season), THEY know they're guilty, and the point now is to put them through the wringer for it, and force them to admit their own wrongdoing, if only to themselves. The problem is, the secret has grown so big now, and so many people are involved, that Mike and Harvey can't just shrug it off and say "oh, well, they caught us. It was a good run." Because now if they are found guilty, the people they love the most will also have to face the consequences for their actions. I thought this episode did a really good job of making it clear that Mike and Harvey were not out for themselves here. The reason they are fighting so hard to get a verdict of "not guilty" is because if convicted, they'd be taking down the whole firm, Jessica, Donna, Louis, possibly Scottie and Rachel, and everyone and everything they care about, which is only in the line of fire because of what THEY did all those years ago. To the point where they are now basically forced to throw themselves on their own swords or risk consequences to the people they love. Seeing Mike and Harvey kind of tortured for what they did and what they brought on everyone else has been actually really satisfying, and I don't get the impression at all that the show wants them to get away with it because they "should," but because there's so much more at stake now that so many people have been brought in on it that if they just take the hit that they know they deserve, it will hurt the people they'd do anything to protect.

 

 

Mike's closing statement would nuke the firm.

 

I don't see how. Mike maintained that he was legitimately a lawyer, but was a "fraud" in that he had betrayed the reasons he wanted to get into law in the first place, by serving corporate interests at PSL over people in need (letting the jury see the raw truth of his feelings without actually TELLING the whole truth). Would this have been more convincing if he'd talked about his parents, the way Rachel wanted him to? Maybe, but it probably also would have sounded manipulative, so this statement was probably the right call. I don't know the law very well (or at all), but I don't see how that statement would have reflected poorly on the firm, which everyone knows is corporate.

[tvwatcher104]

i just hope Anita gets to stay on as a full character next season... Leslie Hope is just amazing, and she'd be a great match to Harvey on cases. maybe she can join the firm when one of them goes to jail

[catrice2]

Yes, they are guilty, but I feel sympathetic towards Jessica.  Jessica was not complicit in hiring Mike. Once she found out, yes she had a choice, however, I can see her being afraid.  As a minority woman who had grabbed power and status (and dealt with Daniel) it was fear (and love for Harvey) that made her make a bad choice. She was afraid of losing everything and being ridiculed by her peers. 

 

Louis, on the other hand, used the situation to his advantage. He could have taken the high road and told, but he didn't, and even ended up doing something questionable himself.  

 

Harvey and Mike, with sidekick Donna, are the ones that are really responsible for this whole mess.  It is disappointing the way the writers wrote themselves into corners and made the characters unlikeable.  Had they stuck to the case of the week where Mike was fighting for the underdog, or even figured out a way to make him successful as the investment banker it would have been better.  At this point I don't see any way that the legal community would continue to have respect for any lawyer at Pearson Hardmen or whatever it is called these days.   The only way out of this mess is for Mike to still be a bike messenger and the past few seasons were a result of his hitting his head and being in a coma and dreaming about being a part of the firm he had always delivered papers too...with secret admiration for Harvey and a crush on Rachel. 

 

Unfortunately even the fashion has gone downward this season...what a pity! 

[bros402]

Harvey and Mike, with sidekick Donna, are the ones that are really responsible for this whole mess.  It is disappointing the way the writers wrote themselves into corners and made the characters unlikeable.  Had they stuck to the case of the week where Mike was fighting for the underdog, or even figured out a way to make him successful as the investment banker it would have been better.  At this point I don't see any way that the legal community would continue to have respect for any lawyer at Pearson Hardmen or whatever it is called these days.   The only way out of this mess is for Mike to still be a bike messenger and the past few seasons were a result of his hitting his head and being in a coma and dreaming about being a part of the firm he had always delivered papers too...with secret admiration for Harvey and a crush on Rachel. 

 

Can't be totally depressing.

 

Make it a dream Mike had while working in the Pearson Hardman mailroom, sorting mail and delivering it. He is dating Rachel, as they interact regularly as she is a paralegal. On his off time, Mike works on a case against his grandmother's landlord (or something like that) and one day, he has finished delivering the mail and Harvey walks out of his office, "Hey, mailboy, what's that folder there? You forget to deliver a case file to me?"

 

"Uh, no, Mr. Specter, that's mine."

 

"No way this is yours, kid. Who is helping you with this? Smith? Johnson? <Insert Lawyer Names Here>? Donna, come take a look at this. Who is working this case for the kid?"

 

"I haven't heard of this or seen of it before today, Harvey. Doesn't look like any of the lawyers here."

 

"So kid, who is doing this? This work is almost as good as something i'd do myself!"

 

"That's what I have been trying to tell you, Mr. Specter - I did this myself. I read some law books and legal precedent - my grandmother (or friend, whatever) can't afford a lawyer, so I decided to read up on law."

 

"What do you mean, 'You just decided to read up on law?' Where did you go to law school?"

 

"Well I have a phootgraphic memory. I didn't go to law school. I got kicked out of my undergrad for something I didn't even do."

 

Great, now you have me writing Suits fanfiction. Curse you.

[Chicago Redshirt]

So the only way for everyone to go on with their lives intact is for Mike to be found not guilty? A mistrial means they can try him again anytime in the future and they can always go after anyone in the firm with their knowledge that Mike is a fraud?

In the Suitsverse, Harvey and Jessica have jumped to the conclusion that Gibbs doesn't want a mistrial because she's not authorized to try the case again, rather than, you know, because a mistrial is annoying and because she (rightly) thinks she should win the case on the first go. 

 

Seems like if they were to lose against Mike, it would be hard to make a case against Harvey, Jessica or Louis that they knew Mike was a fraud.

 

I'm just hate watching the show at this point.  It's like a large-scale prisoner's dilemma, and it baffles me that not one of the PSL lawyers would turn on the other.  But I guess they are so loyal (read - stupid) that they aren't worried about their own butts.  Instead they will all risk their own lives and careers, as well as the livelihood of all of the others employed by a firm with three criminals for name partners, to protect a jerky guy who is actually guilty.  

 

Louis certainly began the process of turning on Harvey, even bringing back his dictaphone to record Harvey making an incriminating statement.

 

Also, the emphasis should be on "dilemma." No matter what happens, Mike and co. should be well and truly screwed. No good law school grads will apply to join the firm? A bunch of lawyers wouldn't take double their salary to defect? Top management being painted as either complicit or incompetent in not picking up on His Fraudulence earlier?

 

There are (or should be) no easy outs for anyone here.

[TeapotWakeen]

I don't care if Mike stays or goes, TBH. Just leave me Jessica, Donna and Gretchen. Return Louis to being Louis (occasionally a bitch, but generally smarter than he is petulant). Harvey can stay. Rachel's gotta go. Just.Move.On.Please.PrettyPlease.

[needschocolate]

Noticed something about actress that plays Rachel that I haven't noticed before - whenever she is being "serious" she whispers.  

 

And if Jessica and Harvey want a mistrial, why don't they bring up the fact that the US attorney violated a restraining order and approached Louis? Prosecutorial misconduct is always a good way to get a mistrial if not an outright dismissal. Since the restraining order was mentioned in the previouslies, I really thought that's where they were going.

 

Louis didn't tell anyone that Gibbs approached him and gave him her card after there was a restraining order.  I don't know why he is keeping it secret, it makes no sense to me.  When Louis and Gibbs had that scene last episode, I was hoping that Louis had secretly taped the conversation to take to the police and that somehow this would all lead to the case being dropped and we could go back to actual cases with clients and we would never have to hear about this whole fraud business again (ever scene I hope for on this show leads to going back to actual cases and no more fraud crap).

 

New USA series starting this fall:  Jailhouse Lawyer.

 

aka "Pen-Stripped Suits" (get it?)

[Roseanna]

On ‎27‎.‎2‎.‎2016 at 5:54 PM, Kloie said:

I'm just hate watching the show at this point.  It's like a large-scale prisoner's dilemma, and it baffles me that not one of the PSL lawyers would turn on the other.  But I guess they are so loyal (read - stupid) that they aren't worried about their own butts.  Instead they will all risk their own lives and careers, as well as the livelihood of all of the others employed by a firm with three criminals for name partners, to protect a jerky guy who is actually guilty.   

That. There are maybe heroes who are always faithful to each other, no matter what. But we have seen that PSL lawyers are very opposite - they were always hitting themselves on the back. So why didn't they do it now when it was about their whole careers and lives?

Well, Rachel at least thought about it.  

[Roseanna]

On ‎27‎.‎2‎.‎2016 at 6:13 PM, aquarian1 said:

While Rachel is not my favorite character (although I have been liking her more and more), I have no idea what she sees in Mike or why she stays with him.  She's bringing it, in terms of acting, I feel for her, but what does she see in him?  Of course I never saw what they saw in each other, in general, but she's much more of a catch than he is. 

I guess it has something to do with her dad whose firm she refused to work in and whose money she refused to take. Plus, as a girl who had also the benefits she feels sorry for a boy without any benefits.

If PSL wasn't full of lawyers with dubious morality, I would also wonder why she never once had said to Mike: you do wrong and will eventually get caught, quit your job when there is still time and begin anew. Instead, she says that she is proud of him.  

[Roseanna]

On ‎28‎.‎2‎.‎2016 at 10:45 PM, catrice2 said:

Yes, they are guilty, but I feel sympathetic towards Jessica.  Jessica was not complicit in hiring Mike. Once she found out, yes she had a choice, however, I can see her being afraid.  As a minority woman who had grabbed power and status (and dealt with Daniel) it was fear (and love for Harvey) that made her make a bad choice. She was afraid of losing everything and being ridiculed by her peers. 

Good points. But Jessica found out about Mike so early that if she had fired him then, nobody would probbaly have found out or at least damage had been less. Plus, she should have fired also Harvey who had shown that he was completely irresponsible for the firm that has been said to be the focus of Jessica's life.

Whatever benefit Mike gave to the firm, they were worthless compared damage he would cause when he would be caught of which there was no doubt.