S11.E13: Love Hurts

[Tara Ariano]

Sam and Dean investigate murders on Valentine's Day and discover they are dealing with an ancient curse. Once kissed by the curse, the person is marked to die.

[SueB]

Three, two, one.....

[catrox14]

 

But in Australia!!!.

 

 

..

[7kstar]

Now how many people agree that Love really really really HURTS especially on Valentine's Day.  :)

[SueB]

It's Supernatural.... There Will Be Blood

[catrox14]

Ahem, you mean Unattached Drifters Christmas. 

 

See also : F Valentine's Day. I hate it. It's the stupidest 'holiday' ever invented. 

[ParadoxLost]

Show of hands.  Who immediately thought this entire episode was created to snark on Wincest the minute Dean kissed the wife.

 

Who then thought they had stopped paying attention long enough to miss the target transferring kiss from Dean to Sam when the witch told Sam he was next.

 

Just me?  All rightly then.  To be fair I watched Fan Fiction recently.

[Jediknight]

You'd figure the witch would want to join forces with Sam, she was placing a Kiss of Death curse on people, and every female Sam has sex with gets killed.

 

The brothers were upfront with each other, which was good.  No dragging out Dean seeing Amara, just get it done.

[catrox14]

Sure Dean is gonna go get laid whilst working on a case.  Sigh. Whatever.  But then gets shot down because he gives off a Dad vibe? Okay just what age was he hitting on exactly for that to even be a thing. 

 

GRRR..

 

Glad they dumped the shitty music in the clip for a new cue.

 

I'll be back later when I watch it again LOL

 

Fuck the show for having Dean pining for Amara against his will. Ugh it's so gross. 

 

At least Dean tried to explain it Sam so that's good.

 

But I swear to gods they better let DEAN be the one that overcomes his attachment to her and kills her.  Because yeah, no thanks if it's not. It's pointless.

 

I cannot stress strongly enough how much  I HATE THIS AMARA SL.

 

Dean is gonna die because he won Rock Paper Scissors. (kidding)

[Demented Daisy]

Oh dear.  I suspect we're going to get some upset people with Sam's comment there at the end.

 

 

Sure Dean is gonna go get laid whilst working on a case.  Sigh. Whatever.  But then gets shot down because he gives off a Dad vibe? Okay just what age was he hitting on exactly for that to even be a thing. 

 

I thought he asked Sam what a "Dad bod" was.  "Something neither of you have" was my reply, but anyway....

 

Wasn't there a movie recently that had a similar story to this?  Except the curse was passed through sex?

[Frost]

I loved Dean winning Rock Paper Scissors.  He was adorably delighted.

 

I was so glad Dean told Sam about Amara.  His explanation for how she affects him was interesting.  He was repelled by calling it 'desire' or 'love'.

[catrox14]

I loved Dean winning Rock Paper Scissors.  He was adorably delighted.

 

I was so glad Dean told Sam about Amara.  His explanation for how she affects him was interesting.  He was repelled by calling it 'desire' or 'love'.

 

Yeah thank god for that. But what I don't like is Sam basically saying ARE YOU SURE? Sigh.  Or maybe I've got that wrong. I'll have to re-watch. 

 

I thought for sure Dean said, "I give off a Dad vibe" , but I'll have to re-watch it later. But if any woman or man he's hitting on over the age of 25 thinks he has a Dad bod, well she or he is fucking blind LOL.  Sigh.

[Wynne88]

I found this episode to be sort of lack-luster.  From my perspective, it didn't hang together very well, and Dean's confession about Amara at the end just didn't have the gravity it should have had.  I thought Sam standing in front of huge plate glass windows in the salon shining his flashlight around seemed incredibly dumb; I'm getting tired of every Tom, Dick an Harry being able to pin Sam down with magic, and the witch's motivation just didn't impress me much.   Definitely not one of my favorites this season.  Did love Dean's rock, paper, scissors victory though.

[2Old2BAFangirl]

So, I thought this one was fairly meh.

I knew it would be Amara that was Dean's deepest desire and I hated it immediately. I am not a fan of this Dean/Amara connection storyline but it is what it is.

I was really glad that Dean just flat out told Sam the truth. It's nice not to have this one be yet another secret.

I wonder what Casifer is up to? Weird that Lucifer gets out of the cage and we've barely seen him.

And I'm with you guys, Dad vibe or Dad bod, was the person Dean was hitting on freakin' blind? How do you look at the pretty of Dean Winchester and not jump at the invite?!

[Commando Cody]

I like these Sam and Dean only episodes. It reminds me of earlier times when they weren't totally mucked up with complicated or otherwise tedious story arcs.

 

Dean was in the basement alone and I'm thinking, That's great another secret. I was relieved when Dean told Sam who it was.  

 

I really hate that dress Amara wears. 

[ahrtee]

OK, my fears/hopes based on the end of this episode:

 

It seems to me that they're setting up a yet another "Sam must save Dean because he's too weak to save himself" scenario (this time with Dean's acknowledgment.)  And yet again, I'm terribly, terribly afraid that means that Sam will decide he has to do "whatever it takes" including making a deal with Lucifer (once Casifer comes forth, which I'm expecting shortly).  That it's going to be set up that Sam has to make some incredibly stupid sacrifice (or something equally abhorrent involving Lucifer and next year's storyline).  (I had to look up the quote from Carver's most recent interview.  He said: "Is Lucifer actually making a smart point about the best way to stop Amara? I think that will lead Sam to take certain positions coming up that might diverge from his brother.")  That, to me, does not auger well with a new take on the brothers/story.

 

My hopes: 

 

Because Sam already said no to Lucifer all on his own, he's going to recognize that working with him in any way, shape or form is a definite no.  So this time he won't be so stupid.

 

And Dean is going to be able to overcome his own "addiction" and be able to fight through Amara's hold on him without Sam having to save him.  So this time they *both* can be strong and overcome their own issues.  That they can have faith in each other instead of one feeling he has to "save" the other.

 

Of course, I'm more in the "fingers crossed and don't expect anything" mode, because my hopes have been dashed again and again over the years.

 

[Ferniesfreckles]

It was an okay episode.  Dean didn't ask Sam to be his Valentine. :(

 

I did like that Dean finally came clean to Sam. 

I, too, hate that dress. 

 

I'll admit, I immediately thought "Ooh, now Dean has to kiss somebody else. Maybe Sam!" Or that Sam would ask Dean to pass on the curse to him. 

What??? It's a valid plot point! 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Ferniesfreckles

[poppy-]

Wasn't there a movie recently that had a similar story to this?  Except the curse was passed through sex?

It Follows.   Relentless shapeshifting killer passed from person to person like an STD.  This was definitely an "homage".

Which is fine, that's a good movie that deserves attention.

The whole scene with Sam telling Dean that whoever is attracted to is OK was ripped straight out of 1000 Destiel fanfics. And the unsavory non-consensual attraction twist is very fanfic, too, come to think of it.

[AwesomO4000]

Hee FerniesFreckles...

 

I'm betting there will be fanfiction by the end of the night.

 

And I agree with your "hopes," ahrtee.

 

 

I really hate that dress Amara wears. 

 

Every time I see it I hear Tom Servo in my head saying exasperatedly: "Okay: Breasts! We get it!" (From their commentary of "The Beast of Yucca Flats" when the "actress" in the movie kept moving just so to accentuate her cleavage and point it at the camera).

 

And I'm with you guys, Dad vibe or Dad bod, was the person Dean was hitting on freakin' blind? How do you look at the pretty of Dean Winchester and not jump at the invite?!

 

And besides, "Dad bod" is supposed to be a thing now. "Dad bod" should get Dean laid from what I understand. (Not saying that I think he has one mind you, just saying that the current trend is supposed to be "dad bod" = sexy.)

 

Yeah thank god for that. But what I don't like is Sam basically saying ARE YOU SURE? Sigh.  Or maybe I've got that wrong. I'll have to re-watch.

 

I'll have to rewatch, too, but from what I remember I'd even be okay with an "are you sure?" because Sam made it clear that he knew that whatever it was - even if it was desire - it was not something Dean wanted at all, and so would be totally against Dean's will. And even though I haaaate the episode, Sam has had experience with desire against his will (as does Dean, too) from the siren episode, so he understands such things can be supernaturally induced against someone's will.

 

I was just happy we didn't have a Sam who got in Dean's face for not saying something earlier and then getting all snotty about it. (I'm still annoyed about that being Sam's main storyline in season 9). So yay for quick and positive resolution.

 

 

Also though... Sam's face at the end. Ouch. He is not alright. He's trying to be strong for Dean when he says "I've got this," but nope, he doesn't have it at all. He wants his brother to be working with him. I think this is not going to go well for Sam if Dean can't pull himself out of this, because I think Sam was totally not prepared for this and is not ready.

[catrox14]

I don't think "Dad bod" is a compliment.

 

from Urban Dictionary 

Dad bod

 

1) "Dad bod" is a male body type that is best described as "softly round." It's built upon the theory that once a man has found a mate and fathered a child, he doesn't need to worry about maintaining a sculpted physique.

 

Dean doesn't look even a little bit softly round even under  3 layers of clothes. 

 

Since we are in the shallow end of the pool.....

 

That blue on blue outfit Dean was wearing.  HOLY SHIT. I got a good chuckle when Dean was standing there with his hand in his pocket and the coat back a little bit ..like a model.  That made me laugh. Don't know if Jensen did that on purpose but I chuckled anyway

Edited February 11, 2016 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Okay so I rewatched and it was "Dad bod" so seriously writers...WTF are you all playing at with that kind of shit about Dean Fucking Winchester"  BOO!!

 

So does that mean his sexcapades got to the point where his partner saw him naked and that's why he struck out? Because I put with a lot of shit about Dean in this show, but going after his looks or his body is insulting. I mean Dean is nothing if not stunningly beautiful and fit.  FUCKING STOOPID.

 

ETA:  So if Sam suspected all along, why didn't he speak up until now? Why didn't push Dean more about it if he suspected that was the case.  Sorry that just really kind of hit me.

Edited February 11, 2016 by catrox14

[SueB]

Liked:

- It was a light-hearted (Oy! The PUNS! The PUNS!) episode. Had some clever twists - not a shape shifter but a witch

- The wife. I felt bad for her.  She really was trying to do something "good", just foolish about it.

- The pre-murder music at the start.

- Dean leaping to protect the civilian with his lips.  That's our Dean.  Both quick thinking and heroic.

- The tension towards the end.  While I know the brothers are not going to die, the writing/directing/acting still made me feel like they were at risk from the witch/MOTW.

- Dean loves Daisy Duke (really, it was the Bach version he fell in love with).  This is SO DEAN.  Daisy is sexy, brave, and loves cars.  What's not to love from Dean's perspective.  I can see him falling for her at age 7 and this explains his "type" being a leggy brunette. 

- Wardrobe has knocked it outta the park with those trenchcoats lately.

- The witch killing bullets worked!  About time they had a successful field test.

 

LOVED

- Hungover Dean and Snarky Sam.  That was a delightful little scene in the bunker.  I love the simple interactions.

- Dean wins at Rock, Paper, Scissors. Is this even possible?  Did the gravitational constant of the universe change too?  Are we in an AU?  But then Dean's delight after.  ADORABLE.

- The final bro-moment. Sam said the PERFECT thing to Dean after the Amara reveal.  If there is any doubt that the brothe's are okay, I think this last seen wipes it away.  First, as expressed by the MOTW, Dean's heart is wrapped in shame.  A reminder of why Dean has not explained what's going on to Sam (plus I think he was in denial that he'd have to put the onus on Sam -- something heinous in Dean's mind).  But that conversation made things abundantly clear: 1) this is a non-con and the boys know this (especially Sam), 2) Dean is willing to trust Sam with this situation, and 3) they may joke like 12-yr olds but they've really matured as people.

 

WTF?

- Dad Bod? Nope.  Jensen Ackles was voted (AGAIN) into Glamours Top 100 Hottest & Sexiest Men just last week. It's not that I feel like this isn't intuitively obvious, it's that I don't understand why they make these "take me out of the moment" jokes.'

 

ICK

- I have no sympathy for the Husband or the babysitter.  Both were totally un-likeable IMO.

 

 

I have no problem with but I suspect others will be upset

- Sam snarking at the woman for being a feminist.  To me it was clear he was insulting her for thinking she was doing something righteous (being a feminist) when she was just harboring a grudge.

- Dean telling Sam he can't kill Amara so Sam will have to.  I find this an obvious set-up for Dean overcoming his issues.  If Sam actually GETS the kill, I'll be shocked. 

 

Finally, things that make me go hmmmmmmmmmmm

- Was Dean in extra horn-dog mode because of the "Unattached Drifters Holiday" or because he's compensating for lack of control with Amara? Or maybe that was all put in to SHOW how he's not ashamed of his sexual appetite but what Amara is doing to him IS causing him shame.  Or some combination of all three.

 

 

Can't wait for it to show up on iTunes to watch again (still Left coasting so no DVR).

Edited February 11, 2016 by SueB

[catrox14]

"Look at these male modeling sonsabitches"

 

[Omegamom]

All I can say is that Dean must have tried hitting on a brainless baby bimbo to get a "dad bod" comment. And that's not his type. So that felt way, way, way, waaaay out of left field. Bad writers! Bad writers! Go to your kennels!

On the other hand, Dean WON Rock Paper Scissors, and I was in total shock. And his little victory dance was so cute! Good writers! Good writers! Who's a gooood little writer, now?

Liked the story, though it didn't knock my socks off.

Liked the wife saving the day for Sam.

Liked that Dean came clean. Liked that Sam made it clear he understands that it's non-consensual. That look on Sam's face after Dean tells him he's going to have to do it -- whoa.

[Omegamom]

Also: I really, really liked the "Too Tired" motel, and the decor inside the room. The set guys had fun.

And the three-quarter-length FBI overcoats...mmmmm.

And is Sam's hair getting shorter?! Like, in each episode?

[rue721]

I don't think "Dad bod" is a compliment.

 

Irl it's complimentary -- it's the straight version of calling a guy a "bear."

 

But regardless, there's no universe in which Dean has a "dad bod."

 

Do you watch Once Upon a Time? Baelfire kind of has a dad bod.

[catrox14]

I honestly do not understand what the heck is happening with Sam's hair. It looked pretty great most of this season....but now....If I didn't know better I would swear they are cutting it back to s10 length, which of course in my goofy brain is like a sign that everything will get a do over back to s10.

You know, I kind of wonder if Sam is thinking "Oh shit. Dean would not be in this particular predicament with Amara if I had never worked with Rowena to remove the Mark"...Or at least I hope that happens..

On to something else re the final scene.

The following is not a perfect analogy but maybe it's not THAT far off.

Phil Sgriccia is a GREAT director. He makes smart purposeful choices in his directing. He leaves nothing to chance. He uses the camera to tell the story when often the dialogue doesn't

The way that final scene was shot really reminded me of so many scenes in film and TV that feature the male lead/protagonist whose girlfriend/wife/sister/best friend is sexually assaulted/victimized/has no agency etc but ultimately the story is not really about the victim but rather the protagonist's reaction to said assault.

We see Dean's face when he talks about it not being love or desire re Amara and that 'With every fiber of my being, I want to run her through, I do" and he goes on to say, 'I'm screwed, Sam". Yet, when Dean with a broken voice says "I'm sorry to do that to you" the camera stays on Sam's face and the final shot is Sam and his reaction.

IMO as of that moment the Amara story is now Sam's because it's going to be about how Sam has to stop her because Dean says he can't. Now I might be proven wrong but they way it was shot IMO tells me otherwise.

So Dean has had ZERO agency re Amara and now he's apparently not going to get his own vengeance on her? Yes I'm sure he'll still look for answers etc but will bet you an internet dollar that the big battle will end up being between Sam and Amara. Oh and BTW, Dean's best friend is Lucifer's vessel so great news for him all around.

I am not amused.

[catrox14]

Irl it's complimentary -- it's the straight version of calling a guy a "bear."

 

But regardless, there's no universe in which Dean has a "dad bod."

 

Do you watch Once Upon a Time? Baelfire kind of has a dad bod.

 

I've heard it used IRL and it's only been as a passive aggressive insult in my experience.  I quoted urban dictionary for reference for others, not because I didn't know what it was.

 

Why would Dean even reference it when he just said he struck out? Seems to me someone told him he had a Dad bod and then he struck out. 

 

Either way, it doesn't apply to Dean in the least little bit and it's a stupid thing that served no purpose other than to bash Dean IMO and earlier we had hungover slob!Dean which is stupid because hello!Model!Dean. 

 

Sigh these writers can leave now.

Edited February 11, 2016 by catrox14

[Demented Daisy]

I am confused.  I thought the girl turned Dean down because he didn't have a "Dad bod".  Since, you know, ladies only care about what's currently a "thing".  *eye roll*  In my experience, it's been used to describe a handsome man who has slightly gone to seed.  The male equivalent of a "curvy" lady.  But not necessarily a bad thing.

 

So the monster that the witch was controlling just happened to have the attributes of a shifter (including the eye thing), but not be a shifter?  That's convenient.  I'm tired of the coincidences this season.  I understand they needed a misdirect in the episode, but it feels lazy.  

 

I have some comments and questions about the end of the episode, but I'll take it to the spec w/spoilers thread.  Just in case.

[Jediknight]

- Dean loves Daisy Duke (really, it was the Bach version he fell in love with).  This is SO DEAN.  Daisy is sexy, brave, and loves cars.  What's not to love from Dean's perspective.  I can see him falling for her at age 7 and this explains his "type" being a leggy brunette. 

I wonder why Zachariah didn't try to bribe Dean with Daisy Duke, he tried Ginger from Gilligan's Island.  You should have done your research Zach.  Of course they all fall to Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman/Diana Prince.  Wait, what was I talking about?

Edited February 11, 2016 by Jediknight

[KirkB]

I actually liked Sam pointing out to Dean (and by virtue of that, the audience) that whatever was happening to Dean via Amara is in no way his fault. It's the sister of God. No possible way could he resist or stop her. Whatever they end up doing to defeat her however, will most likely end up being through Dean since I imagine they are going to want him to overcome his...what he perceives to be weakness, I guess.

 

The witch is aware of hunters but, like so many villains, is an idiot when she actually meets one. She managed to stop Sam five seconds after meeting him but left him alive and monologued instead of simply killing him.

 

In retrospect Dean's "dad bod" statement could go either way but I think, maybe, he was saying he got turned down because he didn't have one.

Edited February 11, 2016 by KirkB

[Aeryn13]

It wasn`t the first allusion to Dean being supposedly old and "unattractive". Several writers have gone there before. I can only assume they all have penis envy or something. And from interviews I know how THEY look so this is more than ridiculous.

 

Guess it comes as no surprise that I didn`t care for the ending. Sure, in any other show on TV this would be a set-up for Dean overcoming this attraction - which quite frankly he already did twice, he didn`t kill her with that knife not because she had a hold on him but because that silly little knife was never gonna kill her - and having the win but on this show? Chances are very high he just declared himself the weak little sidekick and Sam will be the big hero in the end. Oh, sure, Dean will do little helper jobs along the way but when it counts, he will be benched.

 

When Sam was Lucifer`s vessel, he was the only one who could stop him. Now that Dean is bonded with Amara, apparently he is the only one who can not stop her. Splendid.   

[Primetimer]

It turns out Valentine's Day is all right for cursing your husband.

Read the story

[Bruinsfan]

I wonder if RADiUS-TWC has lawyered up yet over the entirely coincidental resemblance to It Follows?

 

Sure Dean is gonna go get laid whilst working on a case.  Sigh. Whatever.  But then gets shot down because he gives off a Dad vibe? Okay just what age was he hitting on exactly for that to even be a thing.

I'm assuming his eyesight is beginning to blur from all the concussions and he was hitting on an unusually developed Middle School girl.

 

It wasn`t the first allusion to Dean being supposedly old and "unattractive". Several writers have gone there before. I can only assume they all have penis envy or something. And from interviews I know how THEY look so this is more than ridiculous.

Seriously, the only writer in the history of genre TV with room to criticize Jensen Ackles' body is late 1990s Ben Browder.

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

Okay so I rewatched and it was "Dad bod" so seriously writers...WTF are you all playing at with that kind of shit about Dean Fucking Winchester"  BOO!!

 

So does that mean his sexcapades got to the point where his partner saw him naked and that's why he struck out? Because I put with a lot of shit about Dean in this show, but going after his looks or his body is insulting. I mean Dean is nothing if not stunningly beautiful and fit.  FUCKING STOOPID.

 

FUCKING STOOPID is correct! Seriously???

[AwesomO4000]

I honestly do not understand what the heck is happening with Sam's hair. It looked pretty great most of this season....but now....If I didn't know better I would swear they are cutting it back to s10 length, which of course in my goofy brain is like a sign that everything will get a do over back to s10.

You know, I kind of wonder if Sam is thinking "Oh shit. Dean would not be in this particular predicament with Amara if I had never worked with Rowena to remove the Mark"...Or at least I hope that happens..

 

Maybe the hair is part of that? Sam is going to feel guilty for what's happening to Dean, and as such his physical appearance is going to deteriorate to show this maybe? (And it ties in to my theory below.)

 

On to something else re the final scene.

The following is not a perfect analogy but maybe it's not THAT far off.

Phil Sgriccia is a GREAT director. He makes smart purposeful choices in his directing. He leaves nothing to chance. He uses the camera to tell the story when often the dialogue doesn't

 

The way that final scene was shot really reminded me of so many scenes in film and TV that feature the male lead/protagonist whose girlfriend/wife/sister/best friend is sexually assaulted/victimized/has no agency etc but ultimately the story is not really about the victim but rather the protagonist's reaction to said assault.

 

We see Dean's face when he talks about it not being love or desire re Amara and that 'With every fiber of my being, I want to run her through, I do" and he goes on to say, 'I'm screwed, Sam". Yet, when Dean with a broken voice says "I'm sorry to do that to you" the camera stays on Sam's face and the final shot is Sam and his reaction.

 

IMO as of that moment the Amara story is now Sam's because it's going to be about how Sam has to stop her because Dean says he can't. Now I might be proven wrong but they way it was shot IMO tells me otherwise.

 

I got a different vibe from that final scene. Using your analogy above, I think this is the point in that Lifetime movie where the husband/boyfriend gets entirely overwhelmed, because he feels responsible for what happened to his significant other and doesn't feel like he can fix it... and is on the verge of either having a breakdown, doing something rash because of it, or both.

 

I think they may be setting up a "Sam does something impulsive scenario" that Dean is going to have to talk him down from and/or save him from.

 

In other words, I'm getting a Dean at the end of "My Bloody Valentine" vibe where that ultimately lead to Dean having his desperate say yes to Michael feelings. It's even interesting that this was also a Valentine's episode... so I think we're setting up a Sam considers saying "yes" to  Lucifer plan even though he previously said no - like Dean with Michael in season 5 - and Dean's going to have to talk him down before being the one to save the day.

 

So I'm seeing shades of a season 5 reboot, with Dean being the one to save the day through his talking Sam off the ledge and then overcoming Amara.

 

Which is fine, except Sam was the one who started the apocalypse this time (again), so if that is how it's going to go, I hope Sam gets at least a strong assist and it won't be like the YED or Dick Roman or Metatron (where Sam wasn't involved in the final showdown) or  that Sam once again fails to save Dean, like season 3, purgatory, or Metatron.

[catrox14]

 

I got a different vibe from that final scene. Using your analogy above, I think this is the point in that Lifetime movie where the husband/boyfriend gets entirely overwhelmed, because he feels responsible for what happened to his significant other and doesn't feel like he can fix it... and is on the verge of either having a breakdown, doing something rash because of it, or both.

 

This kind of supports my perspective too.  Even if the boyfriend/husband freaks out, feels overwhelmed, is sorry, responsible whatever...that is still about the husband/boyfriend and not the victim.  If we take the tack that Sam does feel responsible and does something reckless to help Dean, that still makes the story about Sam's reactions and not about Dean's experience.

 

I guess I should just be happy that Dean at least got to talk about it...for 3 minutes.  Sigh

[AwesomO4000]

This kind of supports my perspective too.  Even if the boyfriend/husband freaks out, feels overwhelmed, is sorry, responsible whatever...that is still about the husband/boyfriend and not the victim.  If we take the tack that Sam does feel responsible and does something reckless to help Dean, that still makes the story about Sam's reactions and not about Dean's experience.

 

I guess I should just be happy that Dean at least got to talk about it...for 3 minutes.  Sigh

 

In season 5 when Dean got the emotional reactions about what was happening with Sam - like the end of "My Bloody Valentine" - the criticism was that it was only point of view, and that the story was really about Sam. Even though Dean had the going to say yes to Michael emotional arc and the perspective on how that made him feel and the ending narration and focus on how he felt about Sam falling in the hole, the criticism was still that the mytharc was all about Sam saving the day. The comments were similar for season 4, where again - in my opinion anyway - we got more Dean emotional perspective on things than Sam's, but the story was still supposedly about Sam raising Lucifer.

 

In season 9, Dean sort of got both the action and the point of view, but just because Sam has some point of view now, to me, that doesn't mean the story is all about him... especially if this is a reboot of season 5 where Dean has to talk Sam down and then overcomes Amara which is one of my predictions as to how this is going to go.

 

I have sometimes expressed in forums that I wished Sam would get more point of view sometimes and we'd see how Sam feels about things, but often got told that such things aren't important, because Sam has the mytharc. Or that we do get Sam's point of view, but I just don't like it (not true, I stand by my examples of the lack of Sam point of view sometimes). So I personally am enjoying having some Sam point of view here, myself. It's a nice change, in my opinion. But I don't think it necessarily makes the story all about Sam.

 

If Dean having the point of view sometimes doesn't make the story about Dean (as I've seen some suggest and get shot down for), then I think the same should be when Sam has the point of view sometimes and we see how the action is affecting him. But maybe I'm reading your meaning incorrectly.

[Aeryn13]

 

So I personally am enjoying having some Sam point of view here, myself. It's a nice change, in my opinion. But I don't think it necessarily makes the story all about Sam.

 

I think what makes the story about Sam is the set-up for him to be the glorious Amara-killing hero. Also, his one-true-vessel status still matters because Lucifer was kept around and is apparently gonna be the big gun against Amara.

 

If Dean learned that his bond with Amara means HE and only he could kill her - and for that he has to overcome his conflicted feelings on the matter - and we only got Sam`s perspective and POV on that, then yes, that would be not make the story about Sam for me.

 

Right now they seem to be re-doing Season 5, but I see it as step-by-step. Like with the exact same players in the exact same roles.    , 

[dragonsbite]

I watched this episode twice in a row, just to enjoy Jensen's acting. Good story. And FINALLY Dean tells Sam what's going on. How is that even possible? I could have sworn that the brothers have some kind of DNA filter that prevents them from telling each other the truth until the truth is out. But from Jared's reaction, he'd already guessed.

 

And completely off topic:

See also : F Valentine's Day. I hate it. It's the stupidest 'holiday' ever invented. 

 

I wrote a commentary for The Daily Cougar (U. of Houston's paper) many years* ago about how much I hated Hallmark's holiday. I referenced a homemade card that I'd made for my love interest out of black paper with a bloody heart and "Who's Mine?" in red ink. And that the love interest had never spoken to me again.**  For at least a decade afterward, one of my male friends would send me a black Valentine's day card each year. I now have fond memories of this stupid holiday.

 

*no, really years and years ago

**no, i never did that, but it was funny in the commentary

Edited February 11, 2016 by dragonsbite

[dragonsbite]

I don't think "Dad bod" is a compliment.

 

That blue on blue outfit Dean was wearing.  HOLY SHIT. I got a good chuckle when Dean was standing there with his hand in his pocket and the coat back a little bit ..like a model.  That made me laugh. Don't know if Jensen did that on purpose but I chuckled anyway

 

I don't think "Dad bod" is a compliment either. But lately, the media has been talking up the attraction of "Dad bod" so possibly the writers implied that Dean was  turned down because he's too hot? If so, the woman (or guy) who wants a Dad bod instead of Dean should be made to wear "Mom jeans."  (ETA:  Demented Daisy beat me to this point)

 

And I about fainted upon seeing Dean in that pose. He looked damned fine. And did NOT make me think of plump waistlines at all. Huh uh. Not. At. All.

Edited February 11, 2016 by dragonsbite

[catrox14]

I don't think "Dad bod" is a compliment either. But lately, the media has been talking up the attraction of "Dad bod" so possibly the writers implied that Dean was  turned down because he's too hot? If so, the woman (or guy) who wants a Dad bod instead of Dean should be made to wear "Mom jeans."  (ETA:  Demented Daisy beat me to this point)

 

And I about fainted upon seeing Dean in that pose. He looked damned fine. And did NOT make me think of plump waistlines at all. Huh uh. Not. At. All.

 

 

So wait then.  Dean is either TOO attractive to get laid, or not attractive enough? Why even go there with Dean?  It was so out of left field and I cannot for the life of me figure out why they did it.  Again I say FUCKING STOOOPID.

[shang yiet]

But it's all Sam's fault for releasing the Darkness! Shouldn't he get the chance to make up for his mistake? I'd be disappointed if only Dean could overcome her while Sam thanks Dean for cleaning up his mess again.

[AwesomO4000]

I think what makes the story about Sam is the set-up for him to be the glorious Amara-killing hero. Also, his one-true-vessel status still matters because Lucifer was kept around and is apparently gonna be the big gun against Amara.

 

Lucifer is in Castiel at the moment - similar to how Michael took over Adam while Sam and Dean were smart enough not to do so - and Sam saying "yes" now would be a backtrack for his character, not a move forward. So for me, personally, I would hope that it's not being set up that way, because narratively it would be Sam potentially making the same mistakes again.

 

If Dean learned that his bond with Amara means HE and only he could kill her - and for that he has to overcome his conflicted feelings on the matter - and we only got Sam`s perspective and POV on that, then yes, that would be not make the story about Sam for me.

 

I think this may be the way that they are going, myself. Or close anyway. I hope that Sam does have at least some role though - and Castiel, too - because they started this apocalypse, so I hope that they will get some closure here, too.

 

But if we're doing a repeat of season 5, it was Sam's "connection" with Lucifer that allowed him to take advantage of Lucifer. It would make sense if they are doing a narrative repeat that it would be Dean's bond with Amara that would do the same here - otherwise it wouldn't be a repeat.

 

I'm not exactly sure how Lucifer fits in... oh maybe he is the season 11 substitution for Zachariah - the "false" hope for defeating Amara (like Zach's trying to convince Dean to say "yes" and almost getting in his head to do so.) Hopefully Sam will defeat him then, before we get on to the real Amara defeat.

 

Right now they seem to be re-doing Season 5, but I see it as step-by-step. Like with the exact same players in the exact same roles.

 

I don't think even Carver would be that repetitive with Sam. I suspect this is going to be a Dean heroic moment after a "gotcha" episode here where Dean thinks he can't do it (a la Sam in season 5 questioning whether he can resist Lucifer). But I think it will be Sam who breaks down, at least it seems like that  to me from the focus on his face here where he seems to be sounding much more confident than he really is - based on his very un-confident face. As I said, I'm thinking maybe a role-reversal of the "Point of No Return" arc with Sam considering giving in to Lucifer and Dean talking him out of it.

 

If this is a redo of season 5, where would Amara fit in? Sam's "bond" was with Lucifer, not Amara, so there would be no reason for Amara to have any weak spots with Sam. To me, Dean is the one who makes the narrative sense here.

 

My hope is that they do it together this time. Yes, Dean won't get his one and only moment, but he also didn't start this apocalypse, so in addition he'd be helping to clean up Sam and Cas' mess that he didn't even cause.

 

You may be right. This might be being set up for Sam to do it, but based on what's come before with Carver, I'd be very surprised. It would be the first time in quite a few seasons that Sam's killed/defeated anything significant rather than failing or screwing up. And as I said above, narratively, it wouldn't make much sense.

[Iguana]

Okay, writers.  You need to stop pretending that Dean Winchester doesn't look like Jensen Ackles, and that any age appropriate heterosexual female would not be hitting that as hard and often as possible if the opportunity presented itself.  Some (delusional) teenage girls might think Dean is too old, but none would never be disgusted by him, (most would have massive crushes on him) and I'm tired of all the episodes that make "jokes" about it.  And in this ep, well, I cannot now, nor ever will, be able to suspend my disbelief that he would be turned down either for NOT having a "Dad Bod", because have you seen his face, or because he HAS a "Dad Bod", because Dean Winchester does not now, nor has ever had, a "Dad Bod".  And now I'm never going to use the phrase "Dad Bod" ever again.

 

The ep itself was fine, nothing to hate, and a bit to love.  The boys were adorable doing the rock paper scissors, and I liked the conversation between them at the end about Amara, and how honest they both were.

[Aeryn13]

 

I don't think even Carver would be that repetitive with Sam.

 

I do. I wouldn`t even be surprised if he recreated the Suck Song scene literally frame by frame. This time the camera wouldn`t even need to cut to Dean - he can be kneeling on the ground offscreen.

 

 

and Sam saying "yes" now would be a backtrack for his character, not a move forward

 

When he does it (if it happens), I assume it`s gonna be painted from "in the mid-Season Finale it was heroic to say no" to "and now in the Finale it is equally heroic to say yes". Logic schmogic. 

 

 

But it's all Sam's fault for releasing the Darkness! Shouldn't he get the chance to make up for his mistake?

 

If they wanted to do that, for me the only way would be not to reward him with the hero moment this time. Which, yeah, is a narrative reward in my eyes even if it is (usually) very bad for the character. The helper job was supposedly good enough for Dean, it shouldn`t besmirch Sam either.    

 

So wait then.  Dean is either TOO attractive to get laid, or not attractive enough?

 

In the context of the episode I took it too mean that he got shot down for not being attractive aka apparently being a bit too fat or something. Which is not only blatantly stupid but idiotic to do if you are a show on the CW, the network that pretty much only hosts shows with beautiful people. It`s not like the network or any show on it, including SPN, makes a big secret about that. And some shows have actors on it the same age or older than J2 yet none of them would ever make meta jokes on how their leads are old and ugly. It`s not true, it`s not funny and what the hell is it supposed to mean?   

Edited February 11, 2016 by Aeryn13

[dragonsbite]

Having stepped away from Previously TV and done some actual work today while I ruminated about the Dad bod issue, here's my take:  It's an inside joke.  That's the only possible explanation for Dean's striking out, especially when he references "Dad bod" as the reason he didn't get laid.

 

On the topic of whether they're setting up Sam or Dean to off Amara, I'm betting on Dean. In a screenplay, you always have a "false defeat" to counter a "false high" (read Save the Cat by Blake Snyder):

 

"The opposite moment from the Midpoint: “awful”/“great”. The moment that the main character realizes they’ve lost everything they gained, or everything they now have has no meaning. The initial goal now looks even more impossible than before. And here, something or someone dies. It can be physical or emotional, but the death of something old makes way for something new to be born." (from Tim Stout's explanation of the book)

 

Dean's failed to defeat Amara twice. He emotionally dies in this episode He's hopeless. And that closing look on Sam's face implied he also held very little hope for them. The false defeat leads to the "dark night of the soul" where the protagonist (both brothers) wallow in hopelessness before they come up with a new way to win. So it's possible that they're setting us up with Dean's belief (and Sam's) that Dean can't resist/defeat Amara. Also, didn't someone a couple of episodes back mention that Dean's been responsible for defeating almost all of the big bads? 

        Hmm, of course, the Save the Cat scenario assumes that the writer actually has the wherewithal to plan the story and execute the plan. 

 

Final thought on this matter:  Seems like each forum member's perspective on whether 1) this arc is about Sam or Dean and 2) whose POV we're shown actually relates to that person's preference for Sam and Dean. YMMV on this theory.

 

[Aeryn13]

 

On the topic of whether they're setting up Sam or Dean to off Amara, I'm betting on Dean. In a screenplay, you always have a "false defeat" to counter a "false high"

 

If it was any other show, I would totally agree. Every time something gets hammered home to the viewers throughout a Season, I just know the Finale will turn it on its head. Back in Season 4 on Vampire Diaries basically every single character got a spiel of "Elena only loves Damon because of the Sire Bond". Literally, episode after episode. It made it increasingly obvious that just the opposite would turn out to be true. And it did,

 

SPN just spits common narrative patterns in the face. So in this case, I think a duck will remain a duck and not turn out to be a swan.    

[ParadoxLost]

In the context of the episode I took it too mean that he got shot down for not being attractive aka apparently being a bit too fat or something.

 

That is how I took it too.  But it goes beyond that.  Not only was that given as the reason Dean was turned down.  But it implies that the woman was actively repulsed enough by Dean hitting on her to tell Dean that that was the reason he was being turned down.

 

So that leads me to thinking it was a flaw in Dean's approach that led to a spiteful and untrue reason to rebuff him rather than a truthful and legitimate reason to rebuff him.

[catrox14]

 

If Dean having the point of view sometimes doesn't make the story about Dean (as I've seen some suggest and get shot down for), then I think the same should be when Sam has the point of view sometimes and we see how the action is affecting him. But maybe I'm reading your meaning incorrectly.

 

I'm not comparing Sam and Dean.

 

I am talking about what I think is the narrative shift in THIS specific Amara storyline from Dean to Sam and why I think that is supported by the final scene.

 

During the entire arc this season,  we never really got clarity on what Dean truly feels is happening to him re Amara. We could infer based on Jensen's wonderful acting but nothing textually.  Sam never spoke up that he thought there was something hinky up with Dean and Amara yet he alludes to having suspected for some time in this episode.

 

But truly, I don't think there was any POV from any character including Dean himself about Dean's connection to Amara except maybe Amara's but it's not really a POV because she is the one controlling Dean. But I'm still not clear at all as to WHY she wants to become one with him.  In general, though, IMO her POV is pointless because she's a villain and unreliable. Same with Crowley and Lucifer.  Cas might have had a POV about it but we didn't really get it but then he was turned into Casifer.

 

And IMO Sam never had a POV on Dean and Amara because he was too distracted by Lucifer and didn't think about Dean's connection IMO until he saw that Dean was vulnerable to the banshee. If he did know lo these 13 episodes, the show failed to make that clear enough IMO

 

So whilst Dean had a mytharc-esque SL there was no POV from anyone reliable until this very episode. And boom as soon as his own (Dean's) POV is discussed we then get Sam's POV of Dean. And then we get Amara's SL slipped over to Sam.

 

That's how I see it.

 

Heh, I could almost argue that the entire episode was lampshading this 'pay it forward' with the kisses.