S02.E06: Episode 6

[Rowan]

I don't think it's surprising that people still use gay slurs, but rather that it seemed so widespread and tolerated by the school and the community. That, to me at least, feels very 20 years ago.

I live in a small town in a southern state. You better believe that this boy would be crucified here. I do think school officials would try and be as politically correct as possible when making on the record public statements, but when relaxed, forget it. The kid would never be accepted by most of his school peers here save for a couple of brave souls.

[LotusFlower]

I live in a small town in a southern state. You better believe that this boy would be crucified here. I do think school officials would try and be as politically correct as possible when making on the record public statements, but when relaxed, forget it. The kid would never be accepted by most of his school peers here save for a couple of brave souls.

By school "peers" do you mean his fellow students? Because even though that's sad, it's not that surprising, even in today's more enlightened times. But what about the adults? Would the adults in the school and the community crucify the kid, too? Because practically every single adult in this episode - from the parents to the coach to the administrators to the reporter - acted like Eric's homosexuality was a plague befallen the school, and that's what felt very backwards-thinking to me.

[formerlyfreedom]

By school "peers" do you mean his fellow students? Because even though that's sad, it's not that surprising, even in today's more enlightened times. But what about the adults? Would the adults in the school and the community crucify the kid, too? Because practically every single adult in this episode - from the parents to the coach to the administrators to the reporter - acted like Eric's homosexuality was a plague befallen the school, and that's what felt very backwards-thinking to me.

 

I lived in a rural area that can be compared to the town where this is 'happening' on the show. I can certainly say that in that community, many adults would react exactly like this. To go slightly off topic - in a previous job in that community, I hired 'Joan' over the phone, who when she showed up, was very obviously pregnant (and happened to be unmarried). One of my co-workers, someone considered a leader in the community, heavily involved in her church, who many people looked up to, announced in the very first staff meeting after 'Joan' started that she should be fired, because she was so obviously pregnant, and it was a horrible example to our clients. This happened in this century, and I'm pretty certain that this former co-worker feels exactly the same today (long story short - co-worker was told that this was an extremely bad idea, and 'Joan' remained).

 

So, back to topic - I have no problem with believing so many of the adults are reacting this way. I admire Eric's father, who while struggling, is continuing to be there for his son. Everywhere is different, and many communities are at very different points in the process. But it still makes me really sad.

[Portia]

I teach college in a small city in Alabama, and all the time I'm pleasantly surprised by tolerant comments made by my students, including "bubbas" from even smaller towns in the sticks. Some kid in a John Deere hat tells me, "I want to do my paper on gay marriage" and i brace myself, and then he tells me he wants to take the pro position. Every year it seems to get better. There's still plenty of homophobia, especially at a lot of churches (I thought the show got that little detail just right). Sure, many parents and kids would be uncomfortable about an openly gay kid on the basketball team, and some people would be just plain awful.But I find it ludicrous to think that the kids yelling gay slurs at the game would not be ejected at the vast majority of schools...at least those with decent administrators. Also, are we supposed to believe that there aren't already other openly gay kids at this school? It's very common these days, even in Bible belt.

I'm eager to see where the computer guy plot goes, and i was THRILLED to see that actor turn up again! For me, he was one of the standouts of season 1.

I teach college in a small city in Alabama, and all the time I'm pleasantly surprised by tolerant comments made by my students, including "bubbas" from even smaller towns in the sticks. Some kid in a John Deere hat tells me, "I want to do my paper on gay marriage" and i brace myself, and then he tells me he wants to take the pro position. Every year it seems to get better. There's still plenty of homophobia, especially at a lot of churches (I thought the show got that little detail just right). Sure, many parents and kids would be uncomfortable about an openly gay kid on the basketball team, and some people would be just plain awful.But I find it ludicrous to think that the kids yelling gay slurs at the game would not be ejected at the vast majority of schools...at least those with decent administrators. Also, are we supposed to believe that there aren't already other openly gay kids at this school. It's very common these days, even in Bible belt.

I'm eager to see where the computer guy plot goes, and i was THRILLED to see that actor turn up again! For me, he was one of the standouts of season 1.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Portia

[sjohnson]

Leslie's story is that Eric is the victim and she's so self-disciplined she's not going to slip when she tries to act that out. But that's why she can't get into the heads of people who aren't buying the story, and comes up with the whole assembly idea. Everybody except Taylor's mom has agreed to give it lip service, but for most of them, their reactions are affected by not seeing Eric as a victim. For many it would be seeing Eric as the partner in a sordid falling out, but not a victim. And for others, especially the team, it's knowing I think that Eric is not a victim at all. Eric's mom's reaction in particular is so extreme because of the rape. (She clearly thinks Eric raped Taylor, at least it seems clear to me.) It's obvious she thinks gay=evil and rape=evil, so gay=rape here is just confirmation of all her worst prejudices/fears/hates. Eric is not going to be the sympathetic gay student.

[izabella]

I thought having a "pep rally" of sorts for someone who just attempted suicide and was outed as being gay was a bit far fetched, even for a school such as Leyland. Nothing like putting more focus and stress on Eric.

 

That was so bizarre and painfully awkward all the way around. 

 

Leslie is starting to crack.  She made a mistake in pushing Eric talk to the journalist.   Shouldn't she have gotten Eric's parents' permission before arranging that interview at the school?

[Cosmocrush]

yeah that was very strange to me . THe expressions on the kids faces while Eric was speaking said it all. You are not going to convince kids to be politically correct  or have tact on issues like this.

 

All she did was make things worse for Eric.

Sure, but Leslie isn't concerned about Eric or his poor scholarship family.  She's concerned only with her career which means spinning this in the right direction for the school.    Notice the speech Eric gave was presumably written by her - she was holding a copy of it in her hand. 

 

Actually, I saw it differently. I saw a little polite exchange, and then they let her go. They didn't ask her to exit the car which I believe they sometimes do when they think you might be a threat.  I mean she did go into that restaurant huffing and puffing in a threatening fashion. I know that Taylor's mother if not the owner called the cops, they must have filled them in on the incident. Everyone in the restaurant saw it. Yet the cops didn't even bother to fully get into it. They just asked her for ID pretty much, said if she no longer had any business here she needed to leave. 

 

I mean that went pretty well considering she was the one who was in threatening mode.

I don't know if she could have gone to jail for that or if race played any part in her interaction with the police but I'm pretty certain the fact that she was sitting in what looked like about an $85K car factored into the police decisions.   Also, Anne surely gave Terri's name to the police and I wouldn't be surprised if the cops know Terri LaCroix is able to take a photo of a license plate and have the police harass someone because of clout with the local police department. 

 

It's driving me crazy wondering what Taylor meant when he told [his granddad?, family friend?] "i messed up.  I lied."  What did he lie about?  

 

Edited February 12, 2016 by Cosmocrush

[LydiaMoon1]

I just don't care about this side plot with the Latinos protesting at the poor school and the principal being accused of racism. If there's supposed to be some kind of parallel between that and the crime this show is supposed to be centered around I don't see it. It just feels like padding to me.

 

 

I feel you.  I understand miscommunication and misunderstandings can happen, but the characters in that subplot are making too many illogical leaps and snap judgements. Mateo decides that Evie is being harassed so he leads an attack against another student, and now he is a martyr?  Really?  Shouldn’t someone just ask Evie what happened?  Anyway, all I can conclude is that the show is showing the contrast in reactions at the two schools.  Relatively minor incidences at the poor school are amplified to ridiculous levels, while actual criminal behavior at the rich school is willfully ignored. 

 

 

I'm so frustrated because the acting is amazing but we have essentially made no progress on what happened at that party for several episodes.

 

 

Yeah.  I’m ready for them to get on with it.  I thought this episode had two major developments though; (1) the computer guy has obviously found damning evidence and, (2) Kevin is the true leader of the team and they act on the things that he says. In fact, this was really the first time we’ve seen unfiltered, unadulterated Kevin…..and it was not a good look.  Sooo, his mama taught him that all women are users and bitches that deserve to get knocked around?  Great job there, Terri.

Edited February 12, 2016 by LydiaMoon1

[preeya]

That was so bizarre and painfully awkward all the way around. 

 

Leslie is starting to crack.  She made a mistake in pushing Eric talk to the journalist.   Shouldn't she have gotten Eric's parents' permission before arranging that interview at the school?

Just two words to describe Leslie - "manipulative bitch."

[numbnut]

No, the chat messages here are inaccurate, and the differences are enough to create a very different interpretation. Here's what the screen said: First pop-up message: "Stop it. Please, stop it!" Computer guy's reply: "Now you know what it feels like to get assaulted." So while some of you are guessing this guy is probably evil, I'm thinking that he's stalking someone online - maybe someone who assaulted him or a loved one (or Taylor?) as a way to harass or "assault" the person the way he himself was physically assaulted; to show what it feels like. Just a theory.

 

I assumed he was a typical online bully but I think you're right. Maybe he'll be a hero. Plus I don't think the actor would play an antagonist with a redemption arc two seasons in a row.

[Woebegone]

It's driving me crazy wondering what Taylor meant when he told [his granddad?, family friend?] "i messed up. I lied." What did he lie about? I

Hard to say. From what we currently know, this is probably a reference to how he was cheating on Evy, because he obviously lied and messed up there. Or it could be a reference to something else we don't know about yet.

[iMonrey]

 

It sometimes seems like this is happening in the 1940's or something.  Everyone is homophobic?  No one is comfortable with the words gay or homosexual? What a bunch of unlikable people.

 

This show takes place in Indiana. I'm not trying to cast aspersions here but homophobia is still rampant all over the USA and especially in the midwest/bible belt. I'm sure there are some students who are gay positive (I saw a girl at the rally with a little rainbow flag) but it's hardly surprising the basketball team would be so aggressively homophobic. Or a lot of the parents, who are from another generation.

[Rowan]

By school "peers" do you mean his fellow students? Because even though that's sad, it's not that surprising, even in today's more enlightened times. But what about the adults? Would the adults in the school and the community crucify the kid, too? Because practically every single adult in this episode - from the parents to the coach to the administrators to the reporter - acted like Eric's homosexuality was a plague befallen the school, and that's what felt very backwards-thinking to me.

I do think there would be some parents that would encourage their child to be as accepting as possible, but most would make it known that they felt it is simply "wrong" and unacceptable. Like I said, if they thought they could get away with it most of the school staff would either love to help him turn away from his sin, or simply tolerate his presence because there would be legal issues.

It seems ridiculous, but it really is this way where I live. They know it's illegal to discriminate and THAT is the only thing that would keep them from it. The pearls that would be clutched if two male students showed affection.

A lot of people here would totally feel the beating he probably received at the end of this episode was deserved.

[Chaos Theory]

This season started really slow.  So slow I came close a couple of times to dropping it.  I am glad  I didn't because this episode was intense.  I think Kevin's "Bitches be crazy" speech was him trying to tell the team that he didn't care that Eric was gay.  Gay people didn't both him.    Bitches did.  And Taylor was being a bitch outing Eric and bring his name into things.  

 

I am not sure what to make of the mama drama.  Taylor's mother is out for revenge even if she hasn't really considered what was best for her son.  Eric's mother might actually have preferred if Eric had succeeded in killing himself then have to deal with him being gay.  

 

What I like about this show is everybody thinks they are doing what's right.  Taylor's mother thinks she's doing the right thing, when maybe what she should do is take the cash and get her son some therapy, and maybe therapy for herself too.  Kevin's parents are just trying to protect their son, Kevin's dad is using his power to protect his child.  Leslie is trying to protect the school.  Coach has no idea what to do, so he's doing the best he can.

 

That is a good point and one I was trying to articulate but I read your post and you did it better so I erased mine.  The thing with this story is that there are so far no mustache twisty bad guys.  Which is what makes this show so good and so horribly horribly depressing . There is going to be no winners when the dust settles.   

[represent]

 

 

It seems ridiculous, but it really is this way where I live. They know it's illegal to discriminate and THAT is the only thing that would keep them from it. The pearls that would be clutched if two male students showed affection.

A lot of people here would totally feel the beating he probably received at the end of this episode was deserved.

 

It's fascinating to me how this surprises some, in this world we live in, but it's not a surprise to others. 

 

But I guess it depends on how your perceive the world we live in; unfortunately, I see it as a world in which this occurs more often than not.

Edited February 12, 2016 by represent

[Neurochick]

I have come to believe that most of the characters in this show are all about ME, ME, ME and don't care about anybody else.

 

Taylor's mother doesn't even hear her son; she's not spending time with him, she's so concerned about fighting the school.  She doesn't get that Taylor doesn't want her to fight, he just wants his mother.  She should take the money and get him therapy.

 

Kevin's parents only care about Kevin, they feel that because they are black, Kevin will have it harder, so they're doing everything to protect him, no matter who gets hurt.

 

The coach thinks he's doing the right thing, just like Leslie does, but their main concerns are themselves, their families, the school, and nobody gives a shit who gets hurt.

 

The Latino parents at the Marshall school only care that two Latino students got suspended, they don't even want to listen to anything else.  The principal doesn't believe that the Latinos are victims of discrimination, since he said something like, "they've never had the dogs or the hoses turned on them."  He's only concerned about himself, his opinions, he didn't want to listen to the students tell him what happened.  

 

Evie is only concerned about herself, she's pissed at Taylor because he deceived HER.  

 

The whole town's suffering from a bad case of Narcissism.   They're all trying to do what's right, but it's what's right as they can see it, what's right for them.  

Edited February 13, 2016 by Neurochick

[Broderbits]

I don't think it's narcissism as much as a case of personal experience and what each character's peer group has laid down as expected rules of behavior. And I mean the adults' peer groups as well as the teens. Taylor's mother is trying to do what's best for her son, but just because he says "leave it alone" doesn't mean years later he won't have a conversation with her like the one he had with the grandpa-type and ask her why she didn't fight for him. Teenagers aren't really famous for knowing what's best for them.

 

Coach seems pretty clueless and Leslie's ego is all tied up with this "elite" school. I hope we are going to get some back story with her; there's got to be something big responsible for the incessant hand-washing. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

American Crime Stages A Clash Of The Titans
In an episode full of confrontations, Terri LaCroix and Anne Blaine face off. It's brief but so explosive that Paul Quinn's not sure the universe can handle it.

[Cosmocrush]

This season started really slow.  So slow I came close a couple of times to dropping it.  I am glad  I didn't because this episode was intense.  I think Kevin's "Bitches be crazy" speech was him trying to tell the team that he didn't care that Eric was gay.  Gay people didn't both him.    Bitches did.  And Taylor was being a bitch outing Eric and bring his name into things.  

See, I saw that scene as Kevin basically telling his teammates they not only needed to "get" Taylor but using Eric to do it  was fine too.  Kevin is a leader and if he really was okay with Eric being gay he would not have so obviously and painfully excluded him not only on the court during the game but afterward in the locker room when everyone was going out to eat.   When some asked if they wanted to go eat,  Eric said he would like to go but it was Kevin that said, "I'm sure you have other things to do" to Eric.  And because Kevin is a leader, the team takes their cues from him - not one of those boys stood up to Kevin and included Eric.   

 

I do think it's interesting that Kevin's family is not only wealthy and powerful but Black while Eric's family is poor and broken and white because it makes it harder to tell if there is a racial issue at play or a class issue or more likely both.   The fact that both mothers are horrible to some degree blurs it even more.  

[mansonlamps]

This show takes place in Indiana. I'm not trying to cast aspersions here but homophobia is still rampant all over the USA and especially in the midwest/bible belt. I'm sure there are some students who are gay positive (I saw a girl at the rally with a little rainbow flag) but it's hardly surprising the basketball team would be so aggressively homophobic. Or a lot of the parents, who are from another generation.

Is this experience talking or stereotyping the Midwest? Because I think that in almost any community, and I said almost, there are at least a small contingent  who are going to stand up for or support the gay folks.

This season started really slow.  So slow I came close a couple of times to dropping it.  I am glad  I didn't because this episode was intense.  I think Kevin's "Bitches be crazy" speech was him trying to tell the team that he didn't care that Eric was gay.  Gay people didn't both him.    Bitches did.  And Taylor was being a bitch outing Eric and bring his name into things.  

 

I found this mostly misogynistic speech one of the more disturbing aspects of the show. Particularly because you know the attitude comes from Terri.

[starri]

I'm at the point where the only people I have sympathy for are Eric and Taylor, because Eric clearly felt bad about setting Taylor up.  I guess I wonder why he did it, but maybe it's just his was of getting back with the team and starting to feel normal again.

[Neurochick]

I do think it's interesting that Kevin's family is not only wealthy and powerful but Black while Eric's family is poor and broken and white because it makes it harder to tell if there is a racial issue at play or a class issue or more likely both.   The fact that both mothers are horrible to some degree blurs it even more.

 

 

I think Chris Rock told a joke where he said something like, "no white person wants to trade places with me and I'm rich."  So, even though a black person has money, they still can be victims of racism; even if a white person is poor, they're still white.  

 

I don't really think either mother thinks what they are doing is horrible.  I think both mothers are doing what they think is right.  

[mansonlamps]

I'm at the point where the only people I have sympathy for are Eric and Taylor, because Eric clearly felt bad about setting Taylor up.  I guess I wonder why he did it, but maybe it's just his was of getting back with the team and starting to feel normal again.

I don't know, feeling bad doesn't seem to make up for setting up another student to get the shit beat out of him. I don't have too much sympathy for Eric after that.

[sjohnson]

Never felt much sympathy for Eric, but the last disappeared when a ride in a cool car was so effective in winning his affections. 

[le bordel chaud]

This show is so frustrating to me. I don't think making everything as murky as possible is good storytelling. It is incredibly annoying. And I think they're doing it on purpose. The story is good and the acting is fantastic. But I wish someone else was telling it. I'm too close to hate-watching at this point.

[PQuinn]

It's not an easy watch for sure. And I'm not convinced that we will ever know what went down at the captain's party.

[potatoradio]

 

 

 

And I'm not convinced that we will ever know what went down at the captain's party.

 

And if this happens, I'm going to be P.O.'d. Complexity is one thing. Resolving/enlightening the main hook of the story with a pat "it's complicated and it depends on who you ask" is crap storytelling. As much as I admire the acting and character nuance, having so many P.O.V.s may be hindering the story instead of layering it.

 

Speaking of acting, d*mn you, Felicity Huffman, for having just enough vulnerability in your portrayal of the ice queen to make me interested in your character's motivation. I know, blink and you'll miss it, but it's there. Color me impressed.

[roughing it]

 

And I'm not convinced that we will ever know what went down at the captain's party

In the first season, we never did find out who committed the crime and how it was done - it was all about the aftermath of the crime and the people affected.  (It was implied that the initial suspect -the guy who is now playing the principal- did it, however that was ambiguous)

[izabella]

I tried it last season and hated it, so I stopped watching and didn't know they hadn't shown who committed the crime.  If we don't find out what happened at the party this season, I won't be watching this show anymore.  I have no desire to see half-finished shows.

Edited February 17, 2016 by izabella

[PQuinn]

They did shoot it though -- we've seen it in flashbacks -- so...maybe?