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dubbel zout
Message added by dubbel zout

Discussion of the hosts regarding a specific episode is fine here, but generalized discussion of the hosts go in the The Hosts Thread: Joe and Mika Know Their Value. 

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millennium
millennium

"Changing negatively, everyday" defines my existence since November 9, 2016, so I too feel validated by the panel's anger.   My business has fallen off dramatically.  Customers have been telling me fo

Jeann
Jeann

No he can't because he is the President of the United States and not Hannity or any other talk show stooge. They are not on the same level in any shape or form nor do their job description hold them t

Eliot
Eliot

I am tired of Joe and Mika and Halperin and Geist telling me how unlikable Hillary is. I like her just fine. In fact, the more they tell me how unlikable she is, the more I like her, just to spite the

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Landsnark

Landsnark

Hee hee....

I think Mika has seen The Daily Show's send up of her antics.  She has decided that NOW she is going to turn on Christie, AFTER there are reports of his innocence.  So... she believed him when it was his word.  All along.  She was his #1 defender.  And now, there is a report (an obviously biased, worthless report) exonerating Christie, and it's after this she turns on him?

She's as weighty and serious as gossamer.

teddysmom

teddysmom

I wondered what was going on with Mika pooh poohing the exoneration report of Christie.  Joe was sure full steam ahead mode in getting Christie back into the 2016 race.  

DId they mention that last night Bill Stepien issued a press release that even HE thought bringing up his relationship with Bridget Kelly was out of line.  Rachel read it during her show, it had just broke about 9:15 and she was going crazy about how the report was basically  "Slut Shaming: 101". 

 

Dave23

Dave23

Something tells me somebody gave Ms. Vick the "hairbrush" overnight. Somebody close was telling her that she was wrong to spin for CC, and that it was hurting her potential bottom-line. No way she changed her mind because it's the right thing to do. Apparently Ms. Vick only learns by getting her ass kicked. It makes sense. She's not the brightest bulb on the tree.

Dagny

Dagny

I managed about 5 minutes before I had to turn the channel.  Highlights:

1. Joe mentioning - "When I was in Congress..."

2.Four guys and Mika talking about how there really isn't any wage gap between men and women.

3. The congressmen don't hate Holder and Obama because they are black, look at how much we hated Reno & Clinton.  Didn't somebody call Clinton the first Black American President? So, either they really hate blacks or they lose their minds when Democrats are in office.

Egg

Egg

See, the individual congresspeople might not hate Obama and Holder because they're black. Just like McCain and Graham don't hate Susan Rice because she's black.

They just all realize that it's super easy to rile up the base about black people. So while their own prejudice might not be anti-black, they recognize that their power relies on voters who are racist.

I'm not sure which is worse: a single racist constituent, or a representative who stirs up a group of racists for the sake of power. But I don't trust Joe's judgment to answer that question.

EmeraldGirl

EmeraldGirl

(edited)

Is it good or bad if no one cares enough to snark on a show? I'm going with bad - people can't even muster up snark anymore!

 

I guess it's just that we're stuck in a political black hole period, and these dummies (well, Mika) seem to always be so put off when any news that isn't political gets discussed.

 

That said, even with Joe and his stupid "Obama sucks!" polls, this show is a million times better without Mika. I actually manage to laugh at some stuff that Joe says. And I actually enjoyed the lethal injection conversation today. Mika would have been heaving and signing, and wondering, "Is it just me? What am I missing? I don't GET it?". And then dragged out a few more pictures of herself in bed, on stage, and probably tried to make an awkward tie-in to lethal injections.

Edited by EmeraldGirl
EmeraldGirl

EmeraldGirl

I found "Thrive" to be completely off-putting and insulting to "regular" working women. I also see that she managed to work in a picture the other day of herself on the bed, on her stomach, Louboutins up in the air. Just regular gals laying around talking!

 

So I'm guessing the "bad" daughter is the one who doesn't get to go to these events? The (IMO) less attractive Mika (before surgery) lookalike daughter is always at these events. The other daughter drove the car in the middle of the night and will be a summer intern as punishment. I'm guessing the good daughter is the one who is the Madeira student. The other one is stuck at home eating kale. Hang on, gal.

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EmeraldGirl

EmeraldGirl

Hey, they're actually not repeating the 8am hours ... sweeps? Like that's something this crew should be thinking about?

 

Of course we got the vanity pics of Joe and Mika at the WHCD. And Mika proclaimed Ronan Farrow "a handsy bad boy". Please tell me he didn't try to feel up Mika? Joe went on and on about his stupid posed "argument" picture with Christie. They had Sam Stein and David Ignatius for the first block, and I don't know if they even got to speak because the happy couple wouldn't shut up about their pictures.

Ladyrain

Ladyrain

I hardly watch this hot mess of a show anymore, and I've been a loyal viewer since the Imus days, through all the 'auditioners' when he got canned, even "enjoyed" MJ for years.......until now. Joe is just insufferable, constantly interrupting and talking over his guests, to the point of SHOUTING, spouting all the right wing talking points. He makes Chris Matthews look like a shrinking violet in comparison. Mika's coy little sex kitten persona is embarrassing and makes me cringe. I feel sorry for her daughters, having a role model like this for a mother. She incessantly talks about equality in the workplace and women 'knowing their value' , yet she constantly allows Joe to belittle and ignore her, although she rarely has anything substantive to add to any topic of conversation (and I use that term loosely since polite discourse is hardly the norm on MJ.) I've read that ratings are slipping, and if so it's probably because viewers like me would tune in for some rational discussions and as a counter-balance to the biased nuttiness on Faux, but now all that nuttiness has infiltrated this show and I won't waste 3 hours of my morning on that anymore; back to C-Span for me. Sorry for the rant but I had to vent.

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sugarbaker design

sugarbaker design

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I noticed this morning that Halperin actually showed some common sense when it comes to the minimum wage issue, he said something along the lines of the GOP is going to lose people if they continuously battle the movement to raise the minimum wage.  Joe, who totally rejects anything like common sense, of course disagreed, then pulled a 180 and considered using minimum wage as a bargaining chip for KXL.  Way to go Joe!  And because it can't be said enough, Rattner is sometimes the lone voice of reason on this show.

EmeraldGirl

EmeraldGirl

I noticed obvious tension at one point when Mika told Joe he needed to come back to the table before that author came on. Joe sat down with his pissed off face - despite Mika practically purring and climbing into his lap. As they went to commercial he seemed to say something to her, and her face went blank. Just another day in happy land!

Eliot

Eliot

I was disgusted by all the discussion of Monica Lewinsky during today's show, as well as the hypocrisy of the panel - particularly Joe.

 

For the record, I feel sorry for Lewinsky. She did a dumb thing when she was very young and ruined her own life as a result. And I totally understand why she's coming forward now. The Republicans have already brought the scandal up as a potential campaign issue against Hillary, so I can see what Lewinsky would want to get in front of the story and at least have her say before she gets ripped to pieces all over again. So all the professed "puzzlement" and "head scratching" on the part of the panel as to why she's re-surfaced is annoying.

 

And Joe...Joe...don't you DARE join in the "why are we talking about this? why did we ever talk about this?" chorus. You HELPED IMPEACH CLINTON over the scandal, so don't go all Mr. Above-It-All on us now. You created the mess. Wallow in it like the pig you are.

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Dagny

Dagny

Joe went off about how he was a lawyer and how he KNOWS that withholding memos are bad. Really Joe? Have you been paying any attention to the trouble the New Orleans DAs have been in for the past couple of DECADES! They've been suppressing evidences on all sorts of cases and been caught numerous times. They've been castigated by the SC a couple of times. Have they ever been arrested for their actions? Nope, they were granted immunity.

 

If that mohawked albino (nothing against albinos, natch) talked any longer, I was going to hurt myself. Memos!

Ladyrain

Ladyrain

Eliot, you are spot on with every single word you wrote. . "Wallow in it like the pig you are". Priceless. I will never look upon Joe's beady-eyed face again without hearing those words in my head, for which I heartily thank you. Unfortunately the opportunity to do that is becoming more rare every day, since I cannot stand Joe's incessant bloviating and Mika's timid little attempts to get a word in edgewise. So much for her 'worth'. I literally watched a movie this morning instead; " Little Manhattan ", a most entertaining and poignant film. I highly recommend it. Especially when it is airing opposite MJ.

Dagny

Dagny

This morning they had some guy from Canada talking about he XL pipeline.  His attitude boiled down to "suck it conservationists, the oil is coming out of the ground. Either its going on rails that will blow up cities or it will go in the pipeline that can leak and poison your aquifer that covers 8 states. You choose".  Bloody arrogant pr##k. The belt or the rod, because you are going to get it one way or another, so you better sit back and enjoy it.  The whole group were sitting back and goading him right along.

 

I also think that Donny Osmand sacrifices baby goats.  He hasn't aged at all.

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EmeraldGirl

EmeraldGirl

I'm glad that Donnie said (for once I'm glad to hear him talk) that we don't KNOW if Jill Abramson was a good boss or not. And that seniority can make a huge difference in "equal pay". Of course Mika has latched onto this shit as a top news story so that she can tie it into her "Know your value!" junk. I'm personally sick of hearing about it as important news from these self-promoting idiots. All the top stories manage to tie back to them and their personal ties. Hmm

 

I also found it telling that Joe and Mika didn't know about Willie's book. Really?! You can tell that there is an underlying tension between them, but I guess there's very little chatter off camera. I'm not sure if Willie wants off the show and is being forced to stay, or what the hell is going on. But when he IS there, he is more and more reserved and not playing into The Ego anymore.

 

Speaking of The Ego - did passing out gifts at Mika's seminar wear him out enough to warrant a day off? I'd love to see his contract - the days off are ridiculous.

Dagny

Dagny

They interview the local congressman about why there aren't more storm shelters to protect the kids from tornadoes and his response is "we like local control". WTF is that supposed to mean!!! Is this the same local control that put the kibosh on the state & local gov'ts trying to fund construction of the school shelters with bonds by taxing corporations? Local control that still doesn't require storm shelters at school.

 

Lower taxes > storm shelters for kids

Eliot

Eliot

So...let me get this straight: The Newtown shooter was driven to kill because he was immersed in violent video games that taught him that you express rage by shooting as many people as possible. But when someone event RAISES THE QUESTION as to whether Hollywood movies that objectify women as the "prize" every geeky guy *deserves* might have helped foster a type of misogynistic entitlement mentality in the Santa Barbara shooter, it's an outrage?

 

Oh...and for the past four years Joe has been ranting and raving about "Why are we still in Afghanistan? How many more people have to die?" and now that Obama is promising to leave it's "Why are we leaving now?"

 

The head. It spins.

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Dagny

Dagny

It was interesting that Joe didn't take a much stronger stance against the father of the kid that was killed. He pointed out weakly about how the shooter used a knife to kill three of his victims = # killed with gun. Idiot, he only killed three with his gun because they caught up with him. It's not like the bugger wasn't trying to kill more. He injured 12. I kinda think that Joe saw a guy with a dead kid and recognized he spent the weekend with his little kid. He couldn't go much further.

 

It always gets me when the talking heads go off about "foreign policy by calendar". Didn't we invade countries by calendar deadlines? Yes Iraq is blowing themselves up and we were middle ground between the groups, but the government didn't want us there. So, we took off. Why waste more blood?

 

Richard Haas wants us to leave troops in Afghanistan indefinitely. Is he out of his frickin' mind? Because we want to keep a steady stream of troops to the VA? 

Zalyn

Zalyn

The imprecise language on "loneliness" and "human connection" used by Joe was frustrating - he didn't once refer to male friends and male contact, just (sexual/romantic) connections to women.  That right there is part of the problem that Ann Hornaday was trying to start a conversation on - that women in many types of media exist as a way for men to address a particular hunger or need and to fulfill themselves, rather than to be interacted with as peers and fellow human beings first.  It reminds me of this great TED talk on what movies teach about masculinity and men's journeys: http://www.ted.com/talks/colin_stokes_how_movies_teach_manhood

 

On the other hand, Joe is treading really carefully because of the Asperger's connection and the dead sons as well as daughters.  I think it's expecting too much from a morning news show to really dig into this issue, but I am very glad that they at least tried to start a discussion. 

Zalyn

Zalyn

(edited)

I call bullshit on the university bias topic.  First, there's no scrutiny of other demographics, like corporate CEOs or religious authority figures and their giving, which is certainly heavily biased.  Second, it's clearly not hurting anything since plenty of students graduate from top schools and end up highly conservative business people.  Third, there are fewer people with more conservative leanings who stay in academia because the pay is shitty compared to private business, so if they want to leave to make more money, then whose fault is that?  Free market - if you want to work someplace, then you make it work - whether you are a minimum wage worker, a corporate person who has to conform to the company image, or a professor. 

 

Fourth, it would have been nice if they had described some conservative viewpoints that should be promoted at university.  I teach at university, and I'm trying to identify what conservative values I'm supposed to impart to students that would help make things balanced - do I tell the female students they should go home and forget about getting a degree? Should I only talk about Christianity as a source of religious authority? 

 

I do talk about how the free market is broken and that we need to actually read Adam Smith and other foundational texts to understand what "free market" actually entails.  I promote values of hard work and personal responsibility in following assignment standards and meeting deadlines.  And I explain to them that it's inaccurate to talk about "the feminists" since there are different eras, division between activists, theorists, and organizations - so it's lazy and destructive to good discussion. 

 

Of course, I got to spend several years surrounded by hyper-conservative military people, so I probably don't count as one of the flamingly liberal professors at an Ivy League. Also, I have issues with how tenure is determined, but the increasing corporatization of the university is what is cutting down on academic freedom, not the more laissez faire system that used to predominate.

Edited by Zalyn
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Landsnark

Landsnark

What was the university bias topic?  I presume it's something to do with schools are liberal and therefore bad.

Just to throw this out there... Ann Coulter graduated from liberal beacon, Cornell, and Michigan.  So... explain that, Joe.

And I'll throw this out too... my degree in English and degree in Broadcasting (communications) armed me with critical thinking, language usage, and methods to message an audience.  Ideal underpinnings to launch a career in advertising sales, marketing.

 

The idea that art, literature, math, science, athletics, philosophy, etc.. need a "conservative" counterpoint (whatever the fuck that even means) to have merit is off-the-charts insane.  It's a zero-value topic that is meant to be red meat to throw to the masses, and further divide the country.

And in disciplines like poly/sci, religion and economics, studies should examine all sides of all theory and application.

Also, there are conservative universities where fundamental Christianity is the basis around which all disciplines are taught.  Creationism, anti-global warming, etc... so Joe is free to send his whelps to Liberty if he needs to protect them from ideas he finds distasteful.

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Zalyn

Zalyn

(edited)

What was the university bias topic?  I presume it's something to do with schools are liberal and therefore bad.

Here: http://on.msnbc.com/1iyScMw ("Bloomberg speaks out against university bias")

 

And I'll throw this out too... my degree in English and degree in Broadcasting (communications) armed me with critical thinking, language usage, and methods to message an audience.  Ideal underpinnings to launch a career in advertising sales, marketing.

 

The idea that art, literature, math, science, athletics, philosophy, etc.. need a "conservative" counterpoint (whatever the fuck that even means) to have merit is off-the-charts insane.  It's a zero-value topic that is meant to be red meat to throw to the masses, and further divide the country.

And in disciplines like poly/sci, religion and economics, studies should examine all sides of all theory and application.

Precisely. One thing I am noticing is that "critical thinking" is grossly misunderstood by many students, and they instead try to criticize readings and material I give them.  It's quite cute watching them try to counter renowned sociologists with anecdata - "Kimmel said that on average women face more pressures about career and home than men. Well, I have a friend who's female and she never had problems, so he's wrong and there's no sexism."  Plus, they usually don't even do the readings so they don't even understand the ideas they're trying to criticize.  I also find it hilarious when students who are vehemently against social support programs come and beg for extensions because they were too lazy to do the work like they were supposed to; they completely miss the irony there.

 

One tendency that is arguably more attributable to liberal-minded people is more relativism - that there is more recognition of the potential legitimacy of perspectives different from one's own.  And in that sense, learning about different theories and positions regarding social issues is going to be done more effectively from liberal-minded instructors (and among liberal-inclined students).  I'm not saying that conservatively-inclined instructors can't, but that in an environment where you are supposed to discuss different perspectives (like Hobbes', Locke's, and Rousseau's different Social Contracts), there needs to be a willingness to represent different ideological stances respectfully.

Edited by Zalyn
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stafford

stafford

Wow, Zayln I couldn't have said it any better (in fact, where were you when my International Studies Professor spent all semester on the absolute truth of the Domino Theory and why we needed to stay in Vietnam Nam or the Commies would have blow us all up?). Of course this was a public state university that has never won a NCAA Football Championship--not an Ivy League school.

I was so annoyed when Joe started in on the liberal bias of Universities. From what I can tell Generation X, Y and the Millenniums haven't been overwhelmingly bitten by the "liberal" bug (which probably is biased on my part...I've just been exhausted by having to tell most of my young hires the past ten years that everything they do is terrific and everyone gets a trophy for showing up on time...not all young hires mind you, but a lot of them). Yup, I've turned into the "old" angry adult that doesn't understand why more college graduates are not interested in social justice as a cause. (My apologies to those who are taking up the cause...I just wish more of you lived in my City).

Joe really seems to be struggling to find ways to bash the liberals. Maybe it's because of his fight with Fox News that he has to align himself as a conservative and he has to find a way to bring that message home every damn day.

I felt bad for Sam Stein who tried to counter Joe's argument. I'm just glad Professor Harold Ford wasn't there to agree with Joe. Cackles basking in the glow of liberal bashing was tough enough.

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stafford

stafford

Oakville, she has been hyperventilating for the past two days while Joe has been gone. She certainly was channeling Joe this morning when she talked over people, asked and then answered her own questions with, no surprise here, more questions (her questions raised additional questions which in turn raised more questions...but here's the thing she only used the term "more questions" but never really posed a question).

I certainly know her value...zip, zilch and zippo. She's an embarrassment to pundits and women everywhere.

The apparent "lies" Susan Rice told the past few days has poor wittle Mika confused. Ms. Rice said his health was deteriorating but gosh from the five minute video the Taliban released he looks "fine". Has anybody even suggested that he may be suffering from a mental illness which doesn't show up--Donnie--on a clip of him walking to the helicopter? Yesterday Mika wanted to talk about the optics of the situation...that's so convenient...since they don't have any facts. So let's speculate for hours on what might be happening or NOT. Hey, and while were at it let's roll the John McCain video from a few weeks ago when he said we ought to consider swapping prisoners to get him released.

As a Navy Commander said if a sailor falls or jumps off the ship they always go back for them no matter what the intent.

I think more questions were raised when people like Mika got a look at the Dad. He has a radical look about him and *sigh* that raises more questions. Clearly this soldier (IMO),had some sort of mental break before he left camp.

So finally Mika you can't be a cheerleader for him ("so glad he's back") in one breath and imply with your whole being that he is a deserter and traitor. Why not wait for the facts to come out? Oops, sorry. Facts before speculation and innuendo is not allowed on MJ or even MTP.

  • Love 3
dubbel zout
Message added by dubbel zout

Discussion of the hosts regarding a specific episode is fine here, but generalized discussion of the hosts go in the The Hosts Thread: Joe and Mika Know Their Value. 

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