S03.E11: Intimacy Part 2

[AussieBabe]

Ashley's not a victim. She can cut the crap. David has had the patience of Job. She was immediately disinterested when he wasn't Aladdin or Prince Naveen from The Princess & the Frog. "I don't warm to people until months later," but you were hugging his friends and chatting them up in the summer Cooch Couture line's barely there shorts. She didn't look uncomfortable. Even if David was the most sketchy dude alive, it would still have served her right to treat him kindly and not like he was some hindrance to her fairytale prince. She's not an ugly person, but her personality and shit doesn't stink attitude is off putting. For 33 days, she has kept him hidden away and treated him like a stranger. Now she has feelings and is oh so offended? Girl, bye. I guarantee she wasn't interested in him taking her out on dates or being seen in public with him. Talking is too much for her. Production probably had to coax her to come to the home long enough to film. She suddenly found her out--err voice with text gate.

Sam's roommate walks on eggshells. I listened to what she said when she was talking to Neil and offering advice last week. Why would anybody want to tiptoe around like they're trying to avoid a landmine? The roommate sounds like she's had some issues with her and knows what not to say/do when she's in one of her moods. At any rate--abusive or not--she needs to get her issues under control. That could be why she was single. I don't think he's some weakling. I think he's like Sam's roommate and trying to keep the peace. We've seen how nasty she can get when the cameras are rolling. What was she like when the crew left?

I can't think of many men that would tolerate being kicked out, called a pussy, and having someone disrespect their boundaries (face touching). If I tell you I don't like something, don't go and do it and think you're being cute. Someone like Sam would be a pain in my arse. Since she likes being put in her place, he should've done it right then and there. She probably would've stormed out.

Edited February 12, 2016 by AussieBabe

[amcfar]

David and Stacheley-I don't buy David's story either, and his story should've been easily verifiable if the woman he asked for drinks was indeed a mutual friend as stated. I laughed hard when Ashley started communicating very well (where has that been all season?) about how he disrespected the marriage and ruined everything. LOL! Let's say David really did text the woman with the intent of hooking up with her. What's his punishment from Ashley? Oh, he doesn't get sex or any kind of affection from her. Well, he wasn't getting that anyway. So she needs to be alone and won't talk to him? Well, she wasn't talking to him anyway. That has been the biggest barrier in this marriage. The fact she hasn't given him anything the entire time. We seen David prod, prod, and prod some more and all he gets is the dead fish every single time. I'm not excusing him for what he did, but that has to drain a guy and especially David who seemed so ready to fall in love with someone and spend the rest of his life with her. Also, how would her friend know what Ashley has invested in this marriage? All she gets is hearsay from Ashley who obviously has her own perception that doesn't match reality. The punishment ended up being David going home to Buffalo for a few days to give Ashley her space even though it's HIS HOUSE. Unbelievable! I agree that David really needs to grow a pair and quit trying to invest in someone who isn't worth it. The experts really screwed him, and I really hate that David texted this woman only because it takes the focus away from Ashley where it belongs. He had the upperhand and lost it. I'm not saying Ashley has to fall in love with David, but I'd expect her to be an active participant in the experiment and, at least, be respectful to the guy who is letting her live in his home. That doesn't mean affection or divulging intimate details. It just means communicating. Ashley gave David nothing until he screwed up. She didn't seem to care about the marriage at all until he got busted.

Neil and Sam-I'm kind of getting tired of watching this couple only because it's such a one-sided relationship. As long as Neil goes along with what Sam says or does, this marriage will work out fine. However, Neil has to walk on eggshells for Sam and if he slips up, he'll get kicked out of the house. We've already seen it and it will probably happen again. After Sam touched his face, Neil said he disliked having his face touched. What did Sam do? She touched his face again even more aggressively. Can you imagine if the roles were reversed and Neil touched Sam's face after she said she didn't like it? She'd feel so violated, and Neil would have to leave the premises immediately. It seems like he can't innocently joke without her freaking out while she can constantly mess with Neil at his expense without any repercussions. If Neil is really that selfless and fine with being whipped, then this relationship could work and more power to them. My brother and dad are whipped and their marriages are solid. It works for some people. However, to me watching it, it seems like a really sad way to live. Neil will never know how Sam is going take one of his sarcastic jokes, so he's either going to have to bite his tongue to appease her or deal with her wrath and getting kicked out of the house every time he crosses the line.

Tres and Vanessa-They were really cute together this episode. I loved Vanessa's care package for Tres, and I loved Tres giving Vanessa flowers, cards and enough sweets to feed a SWAT team for her birthday. He really is romantic and should write a book. This couple isn't the most exciting, but, at least, they're making an effort and are way more committed to the process than the other 2 couples. I give Tres mad props for cleaning. Yeah, the gifts were nice, but I was more impressed to see what he could do with a Swiffer. I'd like to see these 2 make it. I really do think they're good for each other.

Great post. I agree with what you've said.

Poor Neil. If he ends up deciding to stay with Sam, then I really hope that he's happy. It's hard to watch him constantly walking on egg shells.

Sam reminds me of someone I know; they even look similar. She's married to a guy who is whipped and does what she says, otherwise he gets the wrath or cold shoulder (or both). The husband constantly looks to be in misery because he has to live according to her rules for him.

Ashley is infuriating to watch. And her treatment of David is even more difficult to stomach than Sam's treatment of Neil - and that's quite the feat!

I am guessing that David asked the mutual friend out for drinks to try and make Ashley jealous while possibly also learning a little more about Ashley in the process. But he should've known better. Obviously he isn't entirely delusional because he even mentioned in one of his THs that she may use this as her excuse to leave the marriage.

I understand that Ashley isn't physically attracted to David. But at some point you'd think that she'd be willing to set that aside for a moment and focus on what he has to offer. He clearly would be tickled pink if she were even the least bit nice in return.

I've dated both ends of the spectrum. I dated a guy who I instantly wasn't attracted to; part of me wanted to bail at first sight. But I stayed and gave him a chance (which in hindsight wasn't a wise choice because he was a pathological liar and a cheater.) However, over time I began to find him more attractive because I liked his personality (again, I didn't know he was actually a snake in the grass).

With that said, my next long term relationship after that was with a guy whom I was instantly attracted to. I still think he's the most attractive man ever and we've been together now almost thirteen years. We became engaged after only about two and a half months of dating and we got married exactly a year after our first date. But with him I was attracted to BOTH his looks and his personality. I think that makes a huge difference.

So, on the one hand, I do understand Ashley's disappointment of not having that physical attraction. But the thing that I can't quite understand is why she willingly signed up for this show.

If looks are THAT important to her, then she should've known better. Did she think that she was going to be matched up with an Aidan Turner lookalike? Especially after she told the experts that she normally chooses guys based on physical attraction and that it hasn't worked for her. Cilona even said as much - that she specifically asked to be paired with someone she wouldn't necessarily find physically attractive.

If I were in David's position, I know that I would've given up long ago. My personality is such that once I know someone is not interested in me, I completely recoil from them. I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing. But David's seemingly never ending optimism is puzzling to me.

Ashley seemed so relieved when he said he was leaving for Buffalo. I was almost expecting her to sigh and to say "finally."

[SnarkKitty]

I'm hoping Vanessa's low key reaction to the bday surprise was because she had to reenact the scene or something, because the camera missed something or messed up. Otherwise ... damn, girl! That was some considerable trouble Tres went to on her behalf to have something special. It was like she was thinking it was a start. She talks a good game about "grown up marriage" and wanting a traditional marriage, but seems to put no effort into putting Tres first.
 

they're perfect for keeping the attention on Jamie during her Unfiltered sitdowns. We discussed her new job in the MAFS: The First Year forum. With Jamie's leggings, her overbleached teeth, and her melodramatic overreactions of AMAZEMENT, she's doing a great job of keeping the spotlight on herself.

 

As we're reminded each week to be sure and watch HER! on HER! show Married the First Year, and Unfiltered! UGH I refuse to watch The First Year precisely because I hate her so much and don't want to watch her fake her way through another show for the money and credits. And I like Jason and Courtney, but still, no. I even delete the stupid 5 minute snippets.

 

I think David's full of shit about the innocence of the message; the screen capture showed on Unfiltered right after the show had a fair bit of conversation, and Ashley's "at first I thought, maybe it wasn't anything, but then I got the screengrab and the screengrab doesn't lie" it made me believe the conversation clearly was flirty. All those lines of text and you couldn't include "... in order to ask questions to get to know my wife better?" THAT part took place in a call, not the first message exchange? Mmmhmm. Okay. And right when she was JUST about to warm up to a conversation with you! And you ruined the only thing you had going for you, that you prostrated yourself at her altar in worship. Since she didn't like you beyond that. But I still don't feel bad for Ashley. That's a damned shame.
 

I don't carry a purse myself, but question for those of you who do... when you're in your own home, do you carry your purse from room to room with you as Ashley does? 

 

Only when that certain relative is over...

Edited February 12, 2016 by SnarkKitty

[Waterlilly]

David should have said, yep Ash I did it but she said no. It is cheating if it happens and fantasy if it doesn't. Either way what do you care. I think Ashley didn't want to go to the wedding so she timed this just right. I can not imagine her going to Nashville with him and chancing having a good time. Ashley

Has one friend who seems bored to tears when they are together, she may defend her but I'm not sure she knows her. I wish David would just totally ignore Ash for the rest of the experiment. It would drive her crazy to not be in control.

[qtpye]

Like many on the board, I had such high hopes for Neil.  He seemed like a kind of off-beat, interesting guy and someone who would want more of a give and take relationship.  After that first incident where he grabbed the ball and showed some backbone when she basically called him a "pussy" he seemed to turn completely around and lose any spine he seemed to have.  Unless he is playing along with Sam until he can rid himself of her, I have no other explanation but to think that he likes living in the shadow of a woman who will control everything he does and make his live revolve around her.

 

My ex boss made everyone, including one director in particular, bring in a doctor's note when they were out sick more than one day in a row.  No one in any job I've ever had did that - She just wanted to show how "by the book" she was - She thought it would impress management, who to their credit doesn't care about stuff like that.  Last February I suffered a bad stomach virus, it was snowing 6 inches every other day for a month, plus I had water damage in my bedroom from ice damming (my carpet was completely soaked and ruined, plus smelled horrible from the backing getting wet) and she told me I couldn't work from home because my job didn't lend itself to working from home - Meanwhile the head of HR is famous for telling everyone to stay home and "be safe" if it's snowing that bad.  Never mind how sick I was and the stuff I was dealing with at home (which I told her about).  I went to our HR rep. after that to complain about her and was not given the usual garbage, but nods and sympathy.  Then I complained to my old boss, who was very sympathetic.  I was a mess and on the verge of a breakdown!  It was almost right after that that she did her 180 "fake nice" changeover - Interesting!  I'm sorry to hear that it ended in getting fired for you - I know that if it weren't for my old boss that probably would have happened to me too.  I know that several other people felt forced out or quit under her.  Of course, her career is taking off now and nothing will stop her till she reaches the top, but she will leave a pile of bodies in her wake wherever she goes.....

 

 

I once read a statistic that psychotics make up a high percentage of CEO's.  The reason they are so successful in business is because they do not let emotions cloud their decisions (they can be cut throat) and they know how to manipulate people to do their bidding.  I am not a psychiatrist or psychologist, so the difference between a psychotic and narcissist are probably not comparable.  However, I do feel like it seems like assholes in general have an easier time getting ahead.  There are good people that are successful, but there are far too many stories of horrible bosses out there.

 

I keep wondering why Neil is so willing to walk on eggshells like that.  Is he so committed to the financial payout that he'll do whatever it takes to survive 6 weeks of pretend-marriage to Sam?  Or does he really believe relationships are usually so unbalanced and anxiety-inducing?

 

Neil needs to find a cool, nerdy girl in the science world.  They exist!  One of my friends is a scientist at a university, and I've met many of the grad students who work in his lab and former grad students - there are some very cool, brainy young women out there who would appreciate Neil's sense of humor and style.  He needs to see how much FUN, and how easy a relationship can be, before he decides to twist himself into a pretzel for the likes of Sam.

 

The problem is Neil would never give those nerdy cool girls the time of day.  He likes a bitch who puts him in his place.

 

I had a friend who was very similar to Neil.  The guy was better looking the Neil (but still unconventionally good looking), brilliant in science, had a great job with a good company, and had a cool laid back personality.

 

A lot of really great girls fell for this guy.   These girls were attractive and accomplished, sometimes in the same field as he was.  He was pretty charming once you got over his quirks and quietness.  However, he never seemed interested in anyone and came off pretty asexual.

 

Then he met this woman, who I shall kindly describe as queen bitch of bitch mountain.  She told all his friends (male and female) that if we wanted to spend time with him, we first had to clear it with her.  She would even accuse his male friends of secretly being gay...because why else would they want to spend time with him?

 

She was crazy possessive of him and once actually threw all of his stuff out on the front lawn and changed the locks on the house they were renting (even paying the landlord extra, because renters are not supposed to be doing things like that).  His friends graciously allowed him to stay with them, even though she had insulted them many times.

 

We all told him to leave her, asap.  Some of us even gave him phone numbers to counseling centers, because we were sure that he was being emotionally and verbally abused.

 

Guess what happened?  He went crawling back to her and eventually married her.  Many of us are no longer friends with him because of his wife and we can not stand to see him in such an awful relationship.  However, somebody told me it is his decision and he is actually very happy.  He was not manipulated, this is what he wants and the rest of us have to respect that.

Edited February 12, 2016 by qtpye

[Neurochick]

To answer the question of what abuse is (if it's not obvious physical or sexual abuse) I think it's when you have to watch what you say and do so you won't set that person off.

 

 

I laughed when I read that because that's almost every blog on the Internet and every politician, if you don't agree with them, you're against them, you're a hater, etc.

 

I think if Sam and Neil stay together it won't last.  Relationships don't last when one person is whipped.  In a partnership, both parties have to be able to shoulder the load because if they can't and something happens to the "stronger" party, the "weaker" party will run away, or have a nervous breakdown because they can't deal with life when things go sideways.

[Evil Queen]

Like many on the board, I had such high hopes for Neil.  He seemed like a kind of off-beat, interesting guy and someone who would want more of a give and take relationship.  After that first incident where he grabbed the ball and showed some backbone when she basically called him a "pussy" he seemed to turn completely around and lose any spine he seemed to have.  Unless he is playing along with Sam until he can rid himself of her, I have no other explanation but to think that he likes living in the shadow of a woman who will control everything he does and make his live revolve around her.

 

I have to wonder how he would have been if he wasn't put with Sam but someone more caring and fun in life. He doesn't (or should I say didn't) seem like he would be a dull guy to be around. I think if we saw him with his friends and just in a more relaxed atmosphere that he would be more open in tons of ways we don't get to see because of Sam. I know I hope he is just waiting for that time to come and call it quits and it isn't that he is ok with putting up with anything to make this work because his grandparents arranged marriage worked. 

[Nffftshewasgone]

I have to wonder if they show Sam gobbling and slurping when Neil is talking because that's the only time he can complete a sentence with her in the same room. Somehow production figured out she won't stop inhaling food, even to put her two cents in.

[princelina]

I laughed when I read "if Neil doesn't want his face touched, how can he have sex," because I was thinking the same thing; maybe he's never had sex before.

 

 

Just to let you know - Mr. P hates having his face touched too,  but he is ready, willing and able to fulfill the rest of his marital duties!  

 

I agree with this.  These people have barely spent a month together for a TV show role.  This is not a relationship that has developed where he is in a dangerous , toxic pattern of being "abused" and has sustained emotional damage.  I think everyone here knows what they are doing and are playing for the audience to a great degree.  And honestly, Neil is likely not as naïve as he portrays himself.  I think he's letting everything play out, to some extent.  Maybe giving Sam enough rope to hang herself?

Who knows at this point?  I was a teacher and for several summers went to another country to teach ESL for a month.  All of us summer school teachers lived together in an apartment block and there was another woman like me who returned several years in a row.  She was very passionate about her work, but a complete crazy person!  One minute we'd all be joking around and having fun, the next she was screaming at someone and bringing them to tears!  Had she been a REAL roommate I would have been out looking for a new apartment immediately, but as it was I walked on eggshells and got through the month each summer.  So I hope that's what Neil is doing.  He did say one time that he knew his mom and family would be seeing him on tv and wanted to behave in a way that didn't shame them.  (Also, my crazy lady has been married for years, so  . . . there's a lid for every pot and all that :)

 

Sometimes I get the feeling that these people, some of the men included, have watched romantic comedies and moves like The Notebook all of their lives and believe that's what true love is.  

I agree!  But didn't we all feel that way when we were young?  I know I did - but age, experience and a few bad relationships taught me otherwise.  My problem with these people is that they are all stuck in some underaged fantasy of what love is (sharing a bathroom, Vanessa?  Really?) and if they actually have "tried everything to find love" then they should know better by now!

 

Not a bad description of my ex-wife. She never feels remorse because she always always believes she's right. And, yeah it does grind you down. That said, I still wouldn't call it abuse. I don't think there is always intent to hurt or control the other person. If you always believe you are right, you naturally tell people what you think and it wears them down. It's just an extremely damaging personality with which to live.

 

Until reading this board, I wouldn't have labeled it "narcissistic" because she was perfectly capable of caring about other people and doing things for them. It was just always through the prism of believing that she was always right.  I called it "always being the hero of her own story."

I didn't know my mom had been married before!  (hee hee)

 

I agree that Neil might be just an incredibly passive weak man.  I think a big red flag for me is that when it was revealed that a lot of his friends are like Sam.  For some reason, Neil is attracted to this type of person, romantically and in friendship.

But was it ever really revealed?  Sam mentioned several times that she liked that his friends were as crass as her, but that doesn't make it true.  And I'm not sure that's what we saw.  What I know I saw was Sam saying that she was relieved to know that Neil was as quiet around his friends as he was around her, because now she knows that's his personality.  Meanwhile, his friend told her that something was obviously wrong with Neil, leading me to believe that that behavior is actually NOT his personality.  But she didn't get that because she was too busy congratulating herself for being "crass" enough for Neil, and deciding that he loved it.  (quietly)

[Snarklepuss]

I have to wonder how he would have been if he wasn't put with Sam but someone more caring and fun in life. He doesn't (or should I say didn't) seem like he would be a dull guy to be around. I think if we saw him with his friends and just in a more relaxed atmosphere that he would be more open in tons of ways we don't get to see because of Sam. I know I hope he is just waiting for that time to come and call it quits and it isn't that he is ok with putting up with anything to make this work because his grandparents arranged marriage worked. 

 

I admit there's a big part of me that hopes Neil is not putting up with anything from Sam for a relationship and is just biding his time until the 6 weeks are up, but seeing that they just moved into a new house so close to the end is making me lose some of that.  He is not acting like someone who is waiting to call it quits if he does something like that.  Unless he has something else up his sleeve I fear that he is really in this for the long haul with Sam as revolting as that may seem!

[eclectic]

I am so totally tired of Ashley.  I can't even watch her anymore.  She came into this with absolutely no intention of making it work.  Even if she had prince charming, she be the frigid princess. 

[GeorgeX]

Advice to BOTH Neil and David: RUN!!!! (especially to David). 

[Kareem]

I have to wonder how he would have been if he wasn't put with Sam but someone more caring and fun in life. He doesn't (or should I say didn't) seem like he would be a dull guy to be around. I think if we saw him with his friends and just in a more relaxed atmosphere that he would be more open in tons of ways we don't get to see because of Sam. I know I hope he is just waiting for that time to come and call it quits and it isn't that he is ok with putting up with anything to make this work because his grandparents arranged marriage worked.

So agree with this. Remember when the men told their friends they had been matched? Tres' friend initially mentioned he must be ok with getting divorced and David's friends gave him the blank stare (practice maybe, for what was to come). Neil was surrounded by a group of people who seemed to appreciate and love him; there were smiles and laughs and jokes about coitus. It's been hard to watch that happy, polite and likable man on the receiving end of so much venom, so much obnoxious behavior.

[Bev]

On David and Ashley, I have some general comments in response to things I've read over and over (and over, lol) both here and elsewhere. I realize I am in the minority!  ;)  These are just a few of my thoughts....

 

1)  This show is "Married at First Sight", not "Attracted at First Sight".  Thus why she didn't leave him at the altar.

2)  He is NOT trying hard, IMO.  He's always been pushing for what he wants regardless of feelings she expressed...case in point; when they were on the ferris wheel early on, she started warming up and having fun.  I thought, "He's going to push this."  And ah, well, of course he did.  And then we're supposed to boo-hoo for him.  And people wonder why she closed off more?  She opens up and gives an inch and boom, he's going for the mile.  As a comparison; Neil understood Sam wasn't attracted to him, so although he wanted more of a relationship, did that ever become an issue?  No, because he respects her and isn't all about himself.

3)  She didn't tell him she wasn't attracted to him because she felt it was unkind.  What's wrong with that reasoning?

4)  Building a relationship on honesty does not involve contacting other women on the sly to supposedly talk about your wife.  If he REALLY felt he wanted to get to know her better by speaking with friends he should've told her so, maybe with the presence of the "experts" (ha!) to talk it through, and then have her provide the contact.

5) If he is so flipping fabulous and could get so many women, why on earth is he on this show in the first place?  And while I don't think every person who might try this "experiment" has major issues, I'd bet that a higher percentage does than from a random sample of the general population.

6)  She's faulted for admitting she goes on looks...admitting it to the experts, who felt it was then wise to match her against type.  And when the attraction doesn't grow, some say she should get over it because he "makes money and likes her etc. etc."  Hmm, perhaps she's not into being a kept woman.  Nothing wrong with that.

7)  She doesn't seem to have the most vivacious personality, however, that doesn't make her a bad person.  And frankly if I had been matched with somebody who rubs me the wrong way like David does, I don't think I'd come off as bubbly and full of joy either, especially with the growing pit I'd have in my stomach.

8) All of this said with the knowledge that this is a show, and I don't know these people other than from what I see on the screen. 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Bev

[allthelight]

Bev, I would have agreed with you until the last one or two episodes. There wasn't much wrong with Ashley's behavior but then she turned into a coward and hypocrite by pretending she cared about his presence or that she would have opened up if he had asked her. She has never warmed to David and there's nothing wrong with that. But whining about his lack of attention at the party or him not asking her questions is just a lame excuse for the desired out. With that, she lost all my respect.

[Jack Sampson]

On David and Ashley, I have some general comments in response to things I've read over and over (and over, lol) both here and elsewhere. I realize I am in the minority! ;) These are just a few of my thoughts....

1) This show is "Married at First Sight", not "Attracted at First Sight". Thus why she didn't leave him at the altar.

Your points are the definition of straw man arguments - no one is faulting Ashley for not being attracted, they are faulting her cold and bitchy behavior. No one is suggesting she has to have sex with David, people are suggesting that "Married" implies someone should be at least civil and friendly regardless of whether or not they are attracted.

 

2) He is NOT trying hard, IMO. He's always been pushing for what he wants regardless of feelings she expressed...case in point; when they were on the ferris wheel early on, she started warming up and having fun. I thought, "He's going to push this." And ah, well, of course he did. And then we're supposed to boo-hoo for him. And people wonder why she closed off more? She opens up and gives an inch and boom, he's going for the mile. As a comparison; Neil understood Sam wasn't attracted to him, so although he wanted more of a relationship, did that ever become an issue? No, because he respects her and isn't all about himself.

He's not trying hard enough because he's trying too hard? I guess "trying hard" would be to do nothing, entertain Ashley, support her financially, buy her expensive things (like a big house) - all while never trying to escalate the relationship physically at all.

If men didn't try to physically escalate relationships, we would all die virgins.

 

3) She didn't tell him she wasn't attracted to him because she felt it was unkind. What's wrong with that reasoning?

4) Building a relationship on honesty does not involve contacting other women on the sly to supposedly talk about your wife. If he REALLY felt he wanted to get to know her better by speaking with friends he should've told her so, maybe with the presence of the "experts" (ha!) to talk it through, and then have her provide the contact.

You realize you're praising Ashley's dishonesty while vilifying David's. If she isn't attracted to him, why should it matter if David decided to move on? Why is it so upsetting? Sure they're married, but you seem to think that doesn't mean Ashley has to be civil to David, why should he be civil to her? What has she done to gain his respect and consideration?

 

5) If he is so flipping fabulous and could get so many women, why on earth is he on this show in the first place? And while I don't think every person who might try this "experiment" has major issues, I'd bet that a higher percentage does than from a random sample of the general population.

No one doubts that Tres can get women, why did he have to be on the show? See how your reasoning quickly breaks down when you take a second to think things through.

 

6) She's faulted for admitting she goes on looks...admitting it to the experts, who felt it was then wise to match her against type. And when the attraction doesn't grow, some say she should get over it because he "makes money and likes her etc. etc." Hmm, perhaps she's not into being a kept woman. Nothing wrong with that.

She's faulted for telling the experts she wanted to try something different when it was clearly a lie. If she was honest from the beginning, she would have never been selected for the show.

And there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be a kept women - except David's salary is the only thing that Ashley has shown excitement for this whole season.

 

7) She doesn't seem to have the most vivacious personality, however, that doesn't make her a bad person. And frankly if I had been matched with somebody who rubs me the wrong way like David does, I don't think I'd come off as bubbly and full of joy either, especially with the growing pit I'd have in my stomach.

Another straw man - No one faults Ashley for being reserved, she's faulted for being reserved - then going on a show that calls for her to be outgoing - then being robotic and uncivil with a guy who might have had a legitimate match if Ashley hadn't aggressively lied to get on the show.

 

8) All of this said with the knowledge that this is a show, and I don't know these people other than from what I see on the screen.

Same here, but it's like we've watched a different show.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Jack Sampson

[Snarklepuss]

3)  She didn't tell him she wasn't attracted to him because she felt it was unkind.  What's wrong with that reasoning?

 

Well, for one, it's dishonest and for another, it leaves David in the dark about what's going on in her mind.  That can't possibly be the right thing to do if one has any sense of decency and thinks about the other person's feelings.  It certainly doesn't help to "build a relationship on honesty" as you state below.  She didn't feel it was "unkind" to tell him the truth - That was an excuse.  The real truth is that she didn't want to look (or feel) like the bad guy.  If she supposedly has so much education in Social Work, she would know that you don't protect someone's feelings by withholding the truth from them, you only hurt them more in the long run.  But it wasn't about protecting his feelings, it was about HER feelings.

 

 

4)  Building a relationship on honesty does not involve contacting other women on the sly to supposedly talk about your wife.  If he REALLY felt he wanted to get to know her better by speaking with friends he should've told her so, maybe with the presence of the "experts" (ha!) to talk it through, and then have her provide the contact.

 

The one time Dr. C met with the two of them he had to practically use a can opener to FORCE her to admit to David that she wasn't attracted to him, and it came as a shock to him because she had been so closed off and uncommunicative that he really had no clue.  And you really think she would have cooperated with him by going to such lengths to help him get to know her when she has been doing everything humanly possible to PREVENT that?  Even if he tried, I seriously doubt he would have succeeded.  I'm sure he realized after that Dr. C meeting that there would be no point in something like that given how poorly that went.  She did nothing but make like he should just back off in pretty much every way and let her decide when she wanted to get closer to him.  And why would it be OK for him to force her hand to open up to him but not for him to force her hand by putting his arm around her or trying to kiss her?  If he did try to force her hand to open up wouldn't you also consider that too pushy when it's obvious that she just doesn't want to share anything about herself with the guy?

 

Jack Sampson pretty much sums up how I feel on the other points - Jack, you win post of the week on this thread for me!!

Edited February 14, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Snarklepuss]

As a comparison; Neil understood Sam wasn't attracted to him, so although he wanted more of a relationship, did that ever become an issue?  No, because he respects her and isn't all about himself.

 

No, I don't think it's an issue with Neil and Sam because Sam has not kept how she feels a secret.  She has probably been very direct about wanting to take things slow and be friends first to see how things go before ever considering a physical relationship.  They haven't shown them talking about that, but I don't see Sam as the kind of person to not lay on the line just how she wants (or doesn't want) Neil to be with her.  She wouldn't pussyfoot around something that big and would openly "friend zone" him before he even had a chance to make any moves.  What Ashley did wrong is not being open with David about that.  She gave him mixed and confusing signals by not saying anything at all to address the issue.  A guy is not a mind reader, nor should he be expected to be.

[lazylou]

I think Ashley went on the show to be on TV.  She never made any attempt to even be civil.  The only time I felt she was being genuine was on the tour of the very lovely house she and David found, which David offered to pay for.  David should have waited until the series was closer to the finale before beginning to arrange an actual social life for himself.  Clearly the "experiment" will not be working for him.

 

Who are these experts?  Why would you match people who have almost nothing in common and expect them to like each other within six weeks?  The couples do not seem to share ethnic backgrounds, religion, education, hobbies, politics, athletics, or any of the other things that generally create bonds between strangers. Vanessa and Tre are the exceptions here, and note they come the closest to being a successful couple.   On the other hand, both seem to have abandonment issues.  Isn't that a recipe for disaster?  The one and only time Ashley and David seemed to be having fun was playing ball...ahhh!  that is something they actually had in common, though apparently no one knew it until the "experiment" was almost over.  The probable answer is that the casting pool is not large enough to create actual "matches."  

 

Maybe the real experts are programmers who work for Match.com, etc., and can boast of thousands of successful pairings.  Forget the "sexologist!" Forget the "spiritual" adviser...bring on the computer program.

 

[KDelaney]

Hmmm... didn't I see a preview or something that asked Neil what his intentions were going into Decision Day, and that he said something to the effect, I am behind whatever my wife says 100%?  That sounds like ambivalence to me... and that is completely the real Neil in every way, I think.  He has been in the program, logically and honorably fulfilling his commitments, being (I think) authentic to who he is and inviting this Sam to take it or leave it.  He wants to see this work out and I think he is having fun with all of this, but he is going to be able to go on just fine if it does not work out.  He is playing along with good intent, I think, and he decided a long time ago that she is going to have to decide whether this is going to be a marriage or not...  A choice which I suppose was hers from the very beginning.  Being a left-brained, logical, detached, no-drama science-type, Neil doesn't have time or energy or investment in her games... I think he does truly want a wife and a marriage, and this may be as good as any other solution or partner he has come up with to get it.  Thus he is willing to 'play on' and see if this can get any better, but he is also willing to cut his losses and let an unwilling partner go, is my read.  I would hope that the strange video message for next week might show that he's grown a pair and is putting it to Sam (albeit in his strange jokey, but completely serious, banter) to make a choice... her choice... and then be honorable enough to live with it.  I do hope these two make it... if this is not completely a reality TV farce..  I do see some growth in these two, and believe that perhaps these opposites can attract.  Sam needs a moment of self-awareness of how badly she has treated this nerdy, but otherwise good guy.  I think she's capable of that, unlike Ashley... and perhaps unlike Vanessa.  The comments above about Neil having to be careful that he is not completely run over are my deepest concern, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he's smarter than he has let on in this whole thing and he may surprise us in the end.

[Snarklepuss]

I just wanted to alert everyone on Comcast who might set their DVR to record that the next episode "Last Chance for Romance" is currently listed as a "repeat" on both A&E and FYI even though it's a new episode.  I caught it and had to set my DVR to record it manually.  Of course, it's probably on "On Demand" anyway.

[crazychicken]

I just wanted to alert everyone on Comcast who might set their DVR to record that the next episode "Last Chance for Romance" is currently listed as a "repeat" on both A&E and FYI even though it's a new episode.  I caught it and had to set my DVR to record it manually.  Of course, it's probably on "On Demand" anyway.

I know that they go with a set formula for the episode names but they really needed to change them this season, so far we have not seen intimacy between 2/3 of the couples despite two episodes devoted to it and how are the expected to have last chance romance when once again 2/3 of the couples haven't had any.

 

OMG just looked up the schedule and for Final Decisions it has part 1 of 2 this season needs a bullet not be dragged out further

[amammata]

I am not sure what is more disturbing Sam or Ashley. I think Ashley. Sam  is a self centered child incapable to listen and more importantly to analyse herself in order to grow and improve. But at least is capable of establishing some level of friendship with people she deem honorable of being her friends. Ashley, in my opinion, is NOT capable of creating a relationship of any sort. She cannot become friend of David because she does not know how. I assume her friendship are based on shallow things and might not be deep at all, an example was that during her bachelorette party, her friends did not know what she would like or not. Looks like her friends did not know basic information about Ashley in order to throw a bachelorette party.  I am a woman that dated any color, shape and culture. I have dated guys that I did not have an instant attraction with and then fall in love with, and I have dated guys that I had not instant attraction and never got it. But I always dated amazing people that enriched my life. I created friendship till today and of course  I have also dated dbag ... realized after and are not my friend today. My point is that David, which btw I find attractive with an amazing smile and beautiful eyes, is a great man to get to know and be friend with, but Ashley cannot even be friend  or at least  be friendly with him. She just said she never had male friends and I can see that. I dont think she is ugly inside or outside, I thinks she is just incapable of creating any sort of real relationship, romantic or not. I am sorry for her, but on the bright side she does not know what she is missing out. PS my husband is black, religious, laid back and full of life and I am white, atheist, foreigner, extrovert and full of life. We are different but we complement each other and we both are joyfull. Ashely  is joyless, and Sam needs to find somebody else (not sure what species we are talking about) maybe when she will be more mature.

I fell sorry for both Neal and David, both kind men that did not get a chance, either because matched with a spoiled child that does not know how to relate to people, or because matched with an un-affective mate.

[amammata]

This season has just made me so.....sad...I miss how excited I was during the first season. Something has been lost. Why isn't anyone REALLY living together? Why doesn't anyone REALLY like each other? Why does everyone seem to be acting for the cameras? Why does everything seem so biased edited? Such a facinating premise. Such a shame on casting. I am just so sad.....

I agree. I have enjoyed  the first season, I though was a cool social experiment and people were doing it. Now is a hot mess not exicting to watch. Dont think  I will watch another season

[Bev]

Your points are the definition of straw man arguments - no one is faulting Ashley for not being attracted, they are faulting her cold and bitchy behavior. No one is suggesting she has to have sex with David, people are suggesting that "Married" implies someone should be at least civil and friendly regardless of whether or not they are attracted.

 

I've read plenty of comments (as I stated I've seen comments here and elsewhere), stating that if Ashley wasn't attracted to him she shouldn't have married him in the first place and just left him at the altar.  Thus my point.

 

He's not trying hard enough because he's trying too hard? I guess "trying hard" would be to do nothing, entertain Ashley, support her financially, buy her expensive things (like a big house) - all while never trying to escalate the relationship physically at all.

 

To clarify, I agree he is trying hard, but only to get what he wants based on his feelings alone.  He is not trying hard to be a partner in a relationship and respect her feelings, IMO.

If men didn't try to physically escalate relationships, we would all die virgins.

 

You are making a global statement that I can assure you is false. 

 

You realize you're praising Ashley's dishonesty while vilifying David's. If she isn't attracted to him, why should it matter if David decided to move on? Why is it so upsetting? Sure they're married, but you seem to think that doesn't mean Ashley has to be civil to David, why should he be civil to her? What has she done to gain his respect and consideration?

 

Her dishonesty is based on her not wanting to hurt someone's feelings as she tries to work through her own towards that person.  But OK, she was dishonest, too, then.  It should matter that he decided to "move on" because he is, in fact, married.  And as an aside it makes him look like a hypocrite...he cares so very much about her and this relationship, but by golly it hasn't worked the way he wants it to in 4 weeks out of 6, so all bets are off?   

 

No one doubts that Tres can get women, why did he have to be on the show? See how your reasoning quickly breaks down when you take a second to think things through.

 

Again with the global statements.  Seemingly he can't get, or keep, the right woman, otherwise he might not have been on this show, either.

 

She's faulted for telling the experts she wanted to try something different when it was clearly a lie. If she was honest from the beginning, she would have never been selected for the show.

 

Disagree.  She could very well have wanted to try something different, the "experts" agreed, felt she was ready, and she, and they, were wrong.  And/or they picked the wrong "different" guy.

And there's nothing wrong with not wanting to be a kept women - except David's salary is the only thing that Ashley has shown excitement for this whole season.

 

Hmmm.  All of this finance talk seems a little irrelevant as I have read that the show funds the shared homes.  I don't believe he's paying for her school and individual residence (or was for the 6 weeks at least), but if he was, well that ended after 6 weeks at the rate they seem to be going...and does anyone really think he'll be paying her alimony after this divorce? 

 

Another straw man - No one faults Ashley for being reserved, she's faulted for being reserved - then going on a show that calls for her to be outgoing - then being robotic and uncivil with a guy who might have had a legitimate match if Ashley hadn't aggressively lied to get on the show.

 

She tried out for the show and the "experts" chose her and matched her.  I don't really think the show is only about matching outgoing people (ex. Neil.)  She seems very uncomfortable around David to me.  Not sure what she "aggressively lied" about?  And if she's that good an actress, why is she not "acting" in a way that would benefit her when the cameras are rolling?  Or act in a way that would get her more money from this husband of hers, if that's really the only thing she's excited about?

 

Same here, but it's like we've watched a different show.

 

We are interpreting the same things in drastically different ways.

[antfitz]

I can't stand Brandon and I'm glad she made the decision and did wait for him to make the decision. He is a control freak.  Her life would have been a roller coaster with a lot of controlling arguments.