Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[phoenics]

I so want to get that shirt made.  Depserately.

[DeLurker]

This is an excerpt from the joint statement from Fox and the executive producers that has been linked previously:

“The finale featuring the tragic death of Abbie Mills was a very dramatic ending and a bold move for the show, but ‘Sleepy Hollow’ has always been known for its shocking finales"

 

At this point, I don't remember how S1 ended, but S2 ended with the death of Henry and Katrina.

 

Which I don't think was bold - they were bailing water from a leaky boat!  And now I am mad because it seems like they are giving equal gravatis to the death of the Crane Family Drama as to Abbie - witness and co-lead.

[jenrising]

Season one finale was Abby left in purgatory, right? So, you know, Abby sacrificing herself for Crane and their mission. Yep, totally shocking.

[C76]

arjumand, those anecdotes about Stargate Atlantis and hair are hideous. 

 

I think you should put in the Kermit meme: "But that's none of my business".  For what it's worth, I got your original message.

 

Thank you, jhlipton. :)

 

Here's the video that Orlando posted on Twitter:

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by C76

[roseslg]

Ah, what might have been.  

[phoenics]

Season one finale was Abby left in purgatory, right? So, you know, Abby sacrificing herself for Crane and their mission. Yep, totally shocking.

They've had her do this THREE times in a row now. Every. last. season. finale.

S1: Abbie sacrifices herself to get Katrina out of Purgatory for Crane.

S2: Abbie sacrifices herself to stop Katrina in the past for Crane.

S3: Abbie sacrifices herself to erase her own importance and forward Crane's story.

Yeah - real bold.

[catrox14]

Codspammit. That damn video made me cry about What Was and What Will Never Be..you m'fers.

[cynic]

Abbie also sacrificed herself in the midseason finale. For a show that seemed to constantly change what it was about, it remained remarkably consistent about some things.

[bobbysgurl]

I just listened to some more of the podcast about NB wanting to wear her natural hair.

It is apparent that TPTB really didn't get what the fans of the show were really saying. They viewed us as a finite number of crazy shippers. They didn't view the broader implications of their treatment of their co-lead, which was confirmed in the podcast. NB was indeed a co-lead.

And . . . and Shernold (probably misspelled the sir name) said THEY knew TM's and NB's chemistry was off the charts.

These are my words: If they knew this going in, why did they offer up Ichabbie for three seasons? Because, it was more important for them to string us along. That did not need to happen. My version of Ichabbie was TM AND NB working side-by-side, equally, as Witnesses/Partners.

I've got to let this go. I'm waking up early and going to bed later thinking about this crap. My husband said it's really not healthy to be this hung up on a piece of fluff TV.

This was my question: Would Sherlock Holmes still be Sherlock Holmes if there were no Watson? He said yes. I said no. Watson defined the character of Holmes through his storytelling.

IC will definitely be a changed character in S4. The version of IC in this "iteration" of SH is defined by none other than Grace Abigale Mills.

[Badsamaritan]

Abbie also sacrificed herself in the midseason finale. For a show that seemed to constantly change what it was about, it remained remarkably consistent about some things.

Yup, screwing over NB was about the only consistent thing they did.

Have I mentioned how much I love Orlando Jones? Cuz I do. Keep low key shading the FUCK OUT of them, sir.

[kieyra]

(I'm pretty sure I came to the forums about thirty seconds into the first 'natural hair' episode screaming OMG NICOLE BEHARIE IS GORGEOUS without ever consciously noticing anything about her hair. Someone else pointed it out to me in a reply.) 

 

Found it.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/38694-s03e10-incident-at-stone-manor/?p=1961718

[phoenics]

Found it.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/38694-s03e10-incident-at-stone-manor/?p=1961718

*sniff* That was the episode with the hand porn! *cries of anguish* Oh we had such foolish hope back then!

Curses!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

arjumand, those anecdotes about Stargate Atlantis and hair are hideous. 

 

 

Thank you, jhlipton. :)

 

Here's the video that Orlando posted on Twitter:

 

I adore Orlando Jones, That is ALL.

[kieyra]

*sniff* That was the episode with the hand porn! *cries of anguish* Oh we had such foolish hope back then!

Curses!

 

When I was poking around in the episode threads from the beginning of this half season trying to find it, I found someone (good-naturedly) making fun of people for believing the show would ever kill off Abbie.

 

Le sigh. 

[phoenics]

^^^ That was probably me!!  Oh wow how naive we were a scant month ago.

[C76]

I found this:

 

https://twitter.com/TheNeilJackson/status/410104476825952256

 

First thought: Tom had a tumblr?

 

I don't blame him for axing it. He strikes me as the kind of person who'd be tempted to talk about what working on SH has really been like. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by C76

[bobbysgurl]

 

ETA - Tom appeared to be torn about what he was saying in his interview, but Lyndie appeared practically giddy when she was talking about the finale.

Edited April 14, 2016 by bobbysgurl

[archiesmom]

 

I hope this shows up. I didn't know all of these women have been doing these hangouts all season. I'm completely heartbroken. These are women, majority black women who have been championing this show all season. Even when fandom was at it's lowest they were so positive. I recognize some of these ladies from tumblr and twitter. These are women who have held on because they saw themselves reflected back at them in a genre where black women don't thrive. If FOX/ SH writers didn't realize  who their fanbase was, I have no words. All they had to do was write her off properly. It makes me wonder if they knew what they were doing and didn't care. 

[Badsamaritan]

I'm starting to understand, at least for me, why I'm still angry days later. It's because I can personally relate to the salient points of what happened to NB because I was branded with the Angry Black Woman label at my old job. Being told you're not good enough, while your coworker has so little to do she can watch movies on her iPad at her desk. To be made to feel less than. When you KNOW, when even others SEE, and still be told 'No, they're better than you.' Because not only was Abbie the audience voice, so was NB, even if she didn't know it.

This forum and Twitter have helped tremendously. But I've decided I'm okay with still being angry, for now. Because I know I'm not alone in feeling, in KNOWING, that this goes deeper than a TV show. It's about bias, and privilege, and an antiquated system that refuses to let go of their preconceived notions of what the world looks like in the 21st century.

But they gon learn today.

[jhlipton]

I wish I wasn't so emotionally invested - I might come up with a way for regular people like us to skip the middle men of networks, etc.. and produce our own content, or have content produced that disrupts the networks so much that they are forced to either change or wither away and die.

 

I don't know if you FaceBook, but here is a group for flack people bypassing TPTB for books, movies and online-series (not TV... yet!)  https://www.facebook.com/groups/blackscifi/?fref=nf

 

arjumand, I never understood Teyla's wig. Rachel Lutrell has such pretty hair

 

Here's a page with all her different hair. Wow -- she is gorgeous!

 

 

My husband said it's really not healthy to be this hung up on a piece of fluff TV.

Would Sherlock Holmes still be Sherlock Holmes if there were no Watson? He said yes. I said no. Watson defined the character of Holmes through his storytelling.

 

That's grounds for divorce, bobbysgurl!

 

I'm siding with your husband on the Watson issue, though.  Suppose we had a story where Watson was too ill to take part in a case and had one of the Irregulars chronicle it.  Would it still be a Holmes story?  I think so. 

[frenchtoast]

You guys almost got me to go off topic here with bringing up Sherlock Holmes. :) Taking my reply to the Small Talk area. 

[bobbysgurl]

I don't know if you FaceBook, but here is a group for flack people bypassing TPTB for books, movies and online-series (not TV... yet!)  https://www.facebook.com/groups/blackscifi/?fref=nf

 

 

Here's a page with all her different hair. Wow -- she is gorgeous!

 

 

 

That's grounds for divorce, bobbysgurl!

 

I'm siding with your husband on the Watson issue, though.  Suppose we had a story where Watson was too ill to take part in a case and had one of the Irregulars chronicle it.  Would it still be a Holmes story?  I think so.

You so crazy. (lol)

[bobbysgurl]

This is pure, high-grade BS. If you can stand the mechanical voice, listen to what CC said about killing off Abbie.

ETA - corrected text

You guys almost got me to go off topic here with bringing up Sherlock Holmes. :) Taking my reply to the Small Talk area.

Nevertheless, I thoroughly appreciated your input.

Edited April 14, 2016 by bobbysgurl

[Three]

This is pure, high-grade BS. If you can stand the mechanical voice, listen to what CC said about killing off Abbie.

 

I don't think I can watch.

[C76]

 

I hope this shows up. I didn't know all of these women have been doing these hangouts all season. I'm completely heartbroken. These are women, majority black women who have been championing this show all season. Even when fandom was at it's lowest they were so positive. I recognize some of these ladies from tumblr and twitter. These are women who have held on because they saw themselves reflected back at them in a genre where black women don't thrive. If FOX/ SH writers didn't realize  who their fanbase was, I have no words. All they had to do was write her off properly. It makes me wonder if they knew what they were doing and didn't care. 

 

Thank you so much for sharing this. All the more reason for me to believe that TPTB knew exactly what they were doing. They just thought that many of us didn't matter.

 

I don't think I can watch.

 

These people have a ton of nerve. Along with the usual tone-deaf tweets, the fact that that video exists tells me that SH's PR people don't have a clue. They may have viewers if they get S4 approval. But not enough to sustain the show.

[catrox14]

OH. MY. GODS FUCK OFF. Gah...so annoyed 

 

Fulfilled her role as A Witness except you know it was TWO WITNESSES and ONLY THOSE TWO WITNESSES. OH MY GODS 

 

YOU HAD ONE JOB SLEEPY HOLLOW.  FOLLOW YOUR OWN DAMN CANON and TEXT. I thought Jeremy Carver was bad with LOLcanon. 

 

Gods I'm angry all over again.

[Yolapukka]

So basically CC is saying fuck any cast member who won't play ball the way I want, it's my show and everyone is replaceable. Also; blah-blah-blah nonsense polysyllabic bafflegab "I am an artistic genius and will not be limited by anything including the dictionary" Mine! Mine! Mine! I have PLAAAAAAAANS! Respect my plaaaaaans.

 

This is only bearable if I imagine him screeching like Vincent Price at his campiest. While emerging from a trap door as he plays an organ.

Edited April 14, 2016 by yuggapukka

[Three]

This is only bearable if I imagine him screeching like Vincent Price at his campiest. While emerging from a trap door as he plays an organ.

 

LOL. You made it bearable.

[C76]

I'm going to finish watching this one eventually. It's an interview from 2014.

 

 

I couldn't help but suddenly stop playback. Early on, Tom makes a joke about TPTB Dr. Who-ing the series. If only he knew.

[DJG1122]

This is pure, high-grade BS. If you can stand the mechanical voice, listen to what CC said about killing off Abbie.

 

This video is....I need a big shovel to get rid of all the BS. What this tells me is that it wasn't Goofman trying to get rid of Abbie. He was doing what he had been told to do. Pushing she who will not be named and sidelining Abbie. He just didn't do it right and was fired. CC did what he was told to do. Soothe the irate fans and keep them watching. Then, when the fans were lulled to sleep, axe Abbie and move on. I see you FOX. Not even more X-Files will bring me back to your network.

 

It seems to me they want "Ichabod Crane, Out of Time Man Monster Killer and Detective". TPTB don't want the ones of us fans who watched for the interaction between Abbie and Crane. They want to appeal to the 18-49 YWMs. They want to totally change the format of the show to attract this group. Crane and lots of beautiful, busty women, hoping these YWMs will want to BE Crane and watch the show. If this had been the original show, I probably would have watched. Not for the busty women (I am one), but for Tom Mison and the supernatural stuff.

 

This is a bigger issue than just deading a character on a TV show. If Abbie had been white, I still would have been upset because I watched for the interaction between Abbie and Crane. However, the pilot broke new ground when it paired a white male lead with a black female lead and I thought that the time had finally come when actors were cast based on their abilities and not on race. Ragnarok's ending made a mockery of this with the total disrespect shown to Nicole.

 

Where is Kanye when we need him?

Edited April 14, 2016 by DJG1122

[benteen]

It's amazing how the network gets when it sets its mind on something.  They've been desperately trying to pair Ichabod with other women and have every other minor female character on the show be attracted to him.  And yet the ratings kept dropping.  You would think, lesson learned and that they would focus on what the few viewers who remained loyal to the show wanted, more Ichabod and Abbie.  But this is network television executives we are dealing with so of course they didn't get in the message and instead continue to think they know better.

[DJG1122]

It's amazing how the network gets when it sets its mind on something.  They've been desperately trying to pair Ichabod with other women and have every other minor female character on the show be attracted to him.  And yet the ratings kept dropping.  You would think, lesson learned and that they would focus on what the few viewers who remained loyal to the show wanted, more Ichabod and Abbie.  But this is network television executives we are dealing with so of course they didn't get in the message and instead continue to think they know better.

I think they got the message pretty clearly. Most likely, the few viewers who remained loyal to the show are women. They don't want us. They want us to shut up and go away so they can make the show more appealing to the YWM demographic in whatever new ways they have come up with. This is why the season finale ended the way it did. TPTB didn't kill off Abbie in the fall finale so we would stay around and keep watching +3 and +7 days to keep the ratings up. It is my opinion that Abbie was killed off in this particular way to make us mad enough to stop watching, shut up and go away.

Edited April 14, 2016 by DJG1122

[phoenics]

I think they got the message pretty clearly. Most likely, the few viewers who remained loyal to the show are women. They don't want us. They want us to shut up and go away so they can make the show more appealing to the YWM demographic in whatever new ways they have come up with. This is why the season finale ended the way it did. TPTB didn't kill off Abbie in the fall finale so we would stay around and keep watching +3 and +7 days to keep the ratings up. It is my opinion that Abbie was killed off in this particular way to make us mad enough to stop watching, shut up and go away.

Welp - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

Look - this is like a bad relationship at this point. You know the kind. Where you keep trying to make the other person treat you respectfully, cherish you and appreciate you for being there. And that person continually craps on you and takes what you care about most, destroys it and then laughs in your face.

Why stay where we aren't wanted?

The problem is, all of the networks are pretty much like this. The only one that wouldn't dare try to control its showrunner like this is ABC with Shonda Rhymes. She's pretty much holding that network together all on her own and gave them Thursday nights, so they don't dare.

The main issue is that they decided SH was a genre show and that it was only good for attracting white males. That's the demographic they want - and they think Abbie/NB cannot get that for them... when none of the other women were getting that for them either. What bothers me is that they really think genre = white males! I mean, can't other kinds of people watch? Fantasy and sci-fi shows often have diverse audiences precisely because they are fantasy! But nooooo.

Fox used to own another show - Roswell - where they and the networks meddled so much that the show destroyed itself after 3 seasons. But at least there was a somewhat happy ending (except for the poor Candies). The first season of Roswell was Season Onederful. Season Two was Season Spew because they decided the show needed white male viewers and tossed aside the female lead (and then covered with some crap that it was an "ensemble" cast), the show dropped in ratings and KEPT tanking until the female lead was trotted back out... the show got up to over 5 million viewers and then WB dumped it. It landed on UPN, but swapped focus to the busty Katherine Heigl, sidelining the female lead AGAIN (but of course not the male lead) and the show ended up in last place in the ratings. I've hated Katherine Heigl ever since and felt SOOOOO vindicated when she showed the world who she was after I watched her and her demands destroy Roswell.

Fox needs better leadership at the top. They have outdated models:

1) Black shows only thrive if the black people are stereotypical characters/tropes/etc. like Empire

2) Genre shows must have YWM viewers. If the viewers are women it's a failure. WTF?

3) Diverse shows where black leads or characters defy stereotypes don't sell, so we remake them into #2 (given the ratings when SH started, this is a LIE and the network should be killed with fire for this)

4) Only white women can get YWM to tune in

I cannot WAIT until the demographics shift and minority groups become the majority so these tired formulas can go somewhere and DIE.

I wish Empire was on ABC so I could completely quit Fox.

[Morrigan2575]

So basically, what I've been thinking since last Friday. The Network believes that Mison is the big draw for SH. They view Abby and the rest of the characters/actors as expendable/supporting. It also seems as though SH Season 4 will be SH in name only. If it gets renewed, it'll be a totally revamped format/premise.

At this point, I can't figure out what I want more, a straight up cancellation or a a renewal and massive tanking in the ratings so I can mock the show.

Sadly this is not surprising, gender and race discrimination is alive and well in Hollywood and probably not changing anytime soon.

ETA: This also lines up with what Gillian Anderson said about FOX lowballing her with the X-Files Reunion/Reboot. Basically, FOX viewed/views Mulder as the big draw, NOT Mulder/Scully. Same situation with Sleepy Hollow.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[bobbysgurl]

 

This guy gets it.

[DeLurker]

It seems to me they want "Ichabod Crane, Out of Time Man Monster Killer and Detective". TPTB don't want the ones of us fans who watched for the interaction between Abbie and Crane. They want to appeal to the 18-49 YWMs. They want to totally change the format of the show to attract this group. Crane and lots of beautiful, busty women, hoping these YWMs will want to BE Crane and watch the show. If this had been the original show, I probably would have watched. Not for the busty women (I am one), but for Tom Mison and the supernatural stuff.

 

A remake of Charlie's Angels with Ichabod's Victorian  Secret Angels...

 

Look - this is like a bad relationship at this point. You know the kind. Where you keep trying to make the other person treat you respectfully, cherish you and appreciate you for being there. And that person continually craps on you and takes what you care about most, destroys it and then laughs in your face.

<SNIP>

1) Black shows only thrive if the black people are stereotypical characters/tropes/etc. like Empire

2) Genre shows must have YWM viewers. If the viewers are women it's a failure. WTF?

3) Diverse shows where black leads or characters defy stereotypes don't sell, so we remake them into #2 (given the ratings when SH started, this is a LIE and the network should be killed with fire for this)

4) Only white women can get YWM to tune in

I cannot WAIT until the demographics shift and minority groups become the majority so these tired formulas can go somewhere and DIE.

 

And the other person keeps telling you how lucky you are to have them.

 

And I am a WOC, but not black.  I'd like to see people on my tv that resemble the people I see in real life.  And guess what?  They come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, colors too.

[MizArk]

phoenics -- I was another sad, struggling Roswell fan. Loved the first season, just shook my head over the increasingly awful seasons afterward. Another show that lost its way entirely. Someone (I can't remember in which thread) mentioned Eureka -- an example of a show that lost its way, listened to its viewers, and rebooted beautifully for season 4 to give the fans exactly what they wanted from the show (including a primary interracial romance and a strong AA couple romance). They also tried to appease TPTB by adding a nerd-boy favorite female who almost ate the show in the last season, but even that was better than season 3. The ratings started to climb, everything looked promising -- and then SyFy chopped it in favor of more wrestling and other (cheaper) crap. They're just now airing good shows again after nearly losing all credibility as a sci-fi channel -- 12 Monkeys is amazing, if you haven't seen it! Several strong female characters, even if one of them is batshit crazy (but still kinda fun).

 

Sort of on-topic with media coverage, the Washington Post has published an examination of how woman in general are still struggling and marginalized by the male dominated Hollywood. Men have the most spoken lines in an astonishing 82 percent of all films (even in the movie Frozen, which is based on two women -- disclaimer, I haven't seen it, but apparently the males have more lines. It's my 3 yo grandson's favorite movie). So, in SH, not only were they shoving aside a WOC, they were following the trend of making the Male the primary focus of the story (and I love a hot guy as much as the next straight, ol' white lady). I don't watch Empire, bailed on Bones a long time ago, so the only Fox show I'm watching at the moment is Lucifer -- which, granted, IS male focused -- and I'm quite sure they'll effitup royally by season 2.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

 

ETA - Tom appeared to be torn about what he was saying in his interview, but Lyndie appeared practically giddy when she was talking about the finale.

Been side eyeing this heffa for a minute.

After she said Ichabbie shouldn't be together.

Plus she's BFFs with Katia Winter.

[C76]

You guys need to see this:

 

https://twitter.com/realboborci/status/720471271260176384

 

FWIW, there's no checkmark by the user's name, but I believe it's really Roberto Orci. I looked and found at least one of SH's producers among his followers.

Edited April 14, 2016 by C76

[bobbysgurl]

This confirms what someone else said here a few days ago. NB was sought after FIRST, then TM was brought in. In what universe does that translate into NB was the dispensable one.

The initial premise was TWO Witnesses brought together through time and space to fight The Apocalypse. That was the cake. The chemistry between the actors was the icing on top.

[phoenics]

You guys need to see this:

 

https://twitter.com/realboborci/status/720471271260176384

 

FWIW, there's no checkmark by the user's name, but I believe it's really Roberto Orci. I looked and found at least one of SH's producers among his followers.

Oh it's him. Man - twitter just exploded with that, lol. Whew. There is a bit of dirt there that Fox kinda pushed Wiseman and Orci out in a sense. There was some kind of falling out - I remember some people talking about it either here or on tumblr. Fox and these guys fell out, along with the guy they had at Fox for diversity too, etc.. And then SH fell into the toilet.

[jhlipton]

You so crazy. (lol)

That's a Good Thing!

 

TPTB don't want the ones of us fans who watched for the interaction between Abbie and Crane. They want to appeal to the 18-49 YWMs. They want to totally change the format of the show to attract this group. Crane and lots of beautiful, busty women, hoping these YWMs will want to BE Crane and watch the show.

Where is Kanye when we need him?

The thing is -- they know this didn't work. It didn't work with the StruggleWitch, it didn't work with Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzoe, and it didn't work with Boobsy Ross. Not one of these women boosted the demographic. So damn dumb.

Not Kanye, though. Ugh. At this point, Kanye could say something and White People would take it as proof that they were right.

 

I wish Empire was on ABC so I could completely quit Fox.

I like Lucifer and Gotham as well as Empire, so I'm stuck with FOX for now.

 

And I am a WOC, but not black. I'd like to see people on my tv that resemble the people I see in real life . And guess what? They come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, colors too.

I am as far from a WOC as one can get -- I glow in the dark! But I also want to see people on my TV that resemble the people I see in real life (although, personal preference, I'd rather see a Nicole Beharie or Gabrielle Union than a Mellissa McCarthy. Just as many would prefer to see a Tom Mison to a Tom Arnold). They come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, colors for me too

 

[E]ven in the movie Frozen, which is based on two women -- disclaimer, I haven't seen it, but apparently the males have more lines.

I wonder if they're counting the lines from reindeer (Sven) and the snowman (Olaf) as "male's lines"..

[C76]

Oh it's him. Man - twitter just exploded with that, lol. Whew. There is a bit of dirt there that Fox kinda pushed Wiseman and Orci out in a sense. There was some kind of falling out - I remember some people talking about it either here or on tumblr. Fox and these guys fell out, along with the guy they had at Fox for diversity too, etc.. And then SH fell into the toilet.

 

WHAT did you say?

 

*woosah*

 

My goodness. This picture keeps get clearer and clearer. 

 

I have the feeling that the folx at Fox (HA!) will soon see the error of their ways.

 

ETA: Also, phoenics, I just thought of something. The rumour that you referred to is exactly the sort of thing I was trying to get at when we were debating a few days ago. People from here to Twitter have been screaming at the writers. And yes, their work has been...I don't even have the words right now.

 

Meanwhile, from where I sit, everything about this situation smelled like someone higher in the food chain pulling some BS.

Edited April 14, 2016 by C76

[phoenics]

I agree - it's coming from somewhere higher in the food chain, but I also think that the original people wouldn't have been yanked around so badly by the network either.

Goffman was obviously bad. I think CC was as well. I still blame the writers, but I blame the network too.

Also, a few things don't track. Last year when ratings fell into the toilet, Fox was what STOPPED Goffman from doing what he was doing. Fox did. Fox was of the mindset that Abbie/Ichabod were the draw and Goffman originally wanted to keep Abbie in Purgatory in the beginning of S2 for a LOOONG time and Fox pushed back demanding that she be let out immediately.

So I don't fully buy that it was "just the network" doing this. The network might have been applying pressure to get a certain demographic, but Goffman clearly made the decisions to feature Katia Winter and to try to rebuild the show around her. It failed spectacularly.

I don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened. But what I can go on is what was actually written and how it was written. The rest is speculation that we can only partially validate, if at all.

[C76]

Actually, phoenics, I feel the same way about people saying "the network/Fox" as I do when they talk about "the writers". Whether given credit for good or bad decisions, they're not a monolith. I know you know this already, FWIW. Any one of them could've asked for Betsy Ross* to show up.

 

All it takes to ruin a show is one jerk with the right title. Man...My head hurts from having spent so much time speculating about what went on.

 

 

*I didn't really like Katrina, but from what I've heard Betsy was just more of the same. (I haven't seen all of S3.) Hence in my eyes, she's worse.

[phoenics]

Actually, phoenics, I feel the same way about people saying "the network/Fox" as I do when they talk about "the writers". Whether given credit for good or bad decisions, they're not a monolith. I know you know this already, FWIW. Any one of them could've asked for Betsy Ross* to show up.

 

All it takes to ruin a show is one jerk with the right title. Man...My head hurts from having spent so much time speculating about what went on.

 

 

*I didn't really like Katrina, but from what I've heard Betsy was just more of the same. (I haven't seen all of S3.) Hence in my eyes, she's worse.

 

I agree - though I do remember from some BTS gossip before S3  that Fox did want to parade a bunch of women before Crane... at the time though I don't know if NB had announced intent to leave.  I hear different versions of that - when she wanted to leave.  Either way - what a mess.

[C76]

I agree - though I do remember from some BTS gossip before S3  that Fox did want to parade a bunch of women before Crane... at the time though I don't know if NB had announced intent to leave.  I hear different versions of that - when she wanted to leave.  Either way - what a mess.

 

Once I heard about Betsy I'd wondered if they intended to have him hook up each season with a different historically-relevant ex. Someone may have thought that type of thing was charming, but...Nope!

[Watermelon]

The more videos people post the more I'd love to know who lost the plot and when.  They seemed so excited they had Nicole on board and Ichabbie was undeniable. You'll never convince me the original plan was to kill either witness off.  Even if it was platonic endgame, Ichabbie WAS endgame, dammit.

[catrox14]

This confirms what someone else said here a few days ago. NB was sought after FIRST, then TM was brought in. In what universe does that translate into NB was the dispensable one.

The initial premise was TWO Witnesses brought together through time and space to fight The Apocalypse. That was the cake. The chemistry between the actors was the icing on top.

 

 

I'm just getting sit over here and cry some more.  I'm in mourning. Again. 

 

You know I think so much of my grief and make no mistake this is grief, is that it's lost hope.

 

Hope for a show that was so irreverent and squirrelly and fun and pushed stereotypes and conventional wisdom out the window. And I'm just so damn disappointed with the entire lot of them excluding Tom and Nicole.

[Three]

So it seems that what I was taking as misguided fixes to a non-existent problem (ie. How do we fix SH1?), actually was a deliberate strategy. And obviously from on high. Someone didn’t like the way SH was heading. I loved it because of where it was heading. Various muddled thoughts below. There may be a better place for this, but as it is mostly responding to commentary in this thread I'll stick it here, but there’s not much media involved and a whole lot of WTFery.

I’ll give you a TL/DR now in case you want to skip it. Basically, Sigh/WTF/Snark/Sigh.

Choosing their fixers

If you are TPTB, you choose your showrunners and writers to reflect your view of the show. Goffmann was brought in because he reflected TPTB direction: let’s whiten this thing up. Diversity? Pfft! His arrogance was to think that if he pushed on through with his dream-girl, everything would be as it should. That was a colossal failure. So they tried again. We got CC who superficially spouted and presented enough to keep the fans thinking he is fixing it, give him time. That was certainly me.   This year we were fed a whole lot of BS.  I almost consider him worse than Goffmann now. Words that come to mind: disingenuous, sly, manipulative, insincere. He didn’t have an obvious infatuation (a la KW), but the plan to dismantle what SH was, was there. It was some grade A manipulation of the viewers.

You select writers that are on the same page. The ones that don’t fit and don’t agree disappear. In the end there’s only simpatico writers in the echo chamber. You can all keep patting yourself on the back as to how your vision is superior and will be AWESOME. The fans you have now are merely disposable fodder for your vision for the fans who will come. Who’s going to be watching when you get rid of us? The disconnect is staggering.

Now for some side-snark about Metzner and LG. Subtitle: writer wish fulfilment/actor ambition. I was looking at Metzner’s feed on twitter after this went down wanting to see what he said. The thank yous went up: firstly Nikki Reed, then the crew, then LG (just have a look at it, she is literally looking deep into the camera, sitting on a throne), at this stage I am checking back to see when NB gets a look in, Lance Gross, Jessica Camacho (still no NB), Peter Mensah, directors, Shannyn Sossamon, Clancy Brown, (NB? NB? Where are you?), Zach, FX crew, Atlanta, Tom Mison, the writers, his writing sidekick, (NB??), a plea to stick with the show, (*cough* Yoohoo NB?? *cough*), some more guff and then a thank you to the fans and a BTS pic of NB. Maybe I missed it, I scanned it twice, but I can see no thank you to the leading lady, which even if it wasn’t heartfelt, would only be good form. So much gracious. So telling. Major side-eye Metzner – and LG.  LG gets thrown in there because it was only after a lot of shade was thrown on twitter about her lack of comment regarding NB etc that she mentioned it. Beware an infatuated writer or producer.

<Insert muttered curses here>

Side note:
Never got into the Glades, but I did watch a couple of episodes and remember some pretty clunky auto product placement in that. It was striking enough that I remember a couple of years later how out of the ep it took me. This is obviously one of CC’s go-to techniques.
 

YWM viewers

Who in their right minds thinks a man like TM would be the main draw-card for this demographic? Like really, YWM are going to be “Oooh! Tom’s on! Must watch!” He is a charming, sexy, lanky, British bloke. He plays a smart guy. Charming, sexy, lanky and smart are some of my favorite things.  If I saw him in person, no doubt I would go a bit silly which is why, although it is extremely unlikely, I hope I never meet him. BTW I would also go dizzy and silly for Idris Elba, Stephen Colbert, and many others. The list is long.  But in case you haven’t picked this up from my posts, I am not a YWM.
Someone obviously thinks he is the right fit for what they are trying to achieve. The noble, knowledgeable alpha WM who knows best and stands for the best of America? No shade on Tom, just trying to work out what they are trying to do here and who are they trying to appeal to. Who is Crane standing in for? Whose wish fulfillment is he living out? What does he represent?

I’ve thought quite a lot about why I loved this show and why I am so so sad at how it went down. People have articulated this much better than me.
Miss Dee’s epic post a while ago summed up my thoughts about why Abbie was so important. I tried to find it to link to it but I’m not very good using this. That was a great post Miss Dee.
The post phoenics linked said so much more clearly than I could reasons I loved this show.
http://steelrigged-blog.tumblr.com/post/142688874681/post-mortem-on-sleepy-hollow
My love was beyond cheering for ichabbie and a positive, equal interracial couple. The whole thing could have been epic.
I came for the history and was blown away by what was happening from the first episode. I don’t mean romantically. It was bigger than that and it was beautiful.

What made it beautiful to me and nearly everyone who watched, made it threatening to the small echo chamber with the power. 
 

Stupid, ugly FOX. It would be so great if SH could be rescued but I think they’ve killed it. You are well out of that mess, Miss Beharie. And as I said in an earlier post, run Mison run.

 

Edit: No content change, just fixing small typos which once seen I could not unsee. I can't even blame autocorrect.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Three