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Sleepy Hollow in the Media

maraleia

By maraleia
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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jenrising
jenrising
cynic
cynic

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years

Badsamaritan
Badsamaritan

I don't believe a word from FOX. Look how they treated Orlando Jones, by far their biggest cheerleader. And the fact that he has still been supporting Nicole tells me he knows what the fuck really hap

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savinggrace

savinggrace

Orlando and Len Weisman talk SH http://www.accesshollywood.com/orlando-jones-and-len-wiseman-whats-ahead-on-sleep-hollow_video_2579237?

I did notice that Goffman was nowhere near the TCA's this year. Perhaps FOX is slowly shoving him out? One can only hope.

 

I'm glad she asked about Orion. I hope they didn't seriously just have him fly off to never return.

 

Len Wiseman is cute.

savinggrace

savinggrace

(edited)

He's married to Kate Beckinsale! 

His involvement in the show was probably the reason I ever originally started watching it. I have a soft spot for those silly Underworld movies. 

 

Ooh, I loved the Underworld movies with Kate in them! I wish they could bring the same sort of vibe to SH.

Edited by savinggrace
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phoenics

phoenics

Ugh - I was in the middle of typing and stupid page reloaded!

I was coming to say that Len Wiseman is still a hottie. Lucky Kate.

And Trollando strikes again... "My pinky toe put it down!"

I also think that when they say less serialization, they don't mean standalone episodes - I think they mean trimming the fat... and I pray that fat is Katrina and CFD.

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BigEasygirl

BigEasygirl

Maureen Ryan of Huffington Post was asked to share her current opinion of SH.

CherryCinnaMoon ‏@CherryCinnaMoon 2h2 hours ago

@moryan Will you be sharing your thoughts on the #SleepyHollow situation? #Causethatwouldbegreat

4:40 PM - 19 Jan 2015 · Details

Mo Ryan ‏@moryan 2h2 hours ago

@CherryCinnaMoon for me, nothing new to say. My feelings haven't changed since I wrote these: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/12/sleepy-hollow-season-2_n_6147426.html?utm_hp_ref=maureen-ryan … http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/01/sleepy-hollow-finale_n_6249652.html?utm_hp_ref=sleepy-hollow …

phoenics

phoenics

(edited)

SLEEPY HOLLOW: Orlando Jones Teases Surprises, and More

 

I'm calling it now.

Hawley or Henry.

I agree with your spoiler.

They will not kill off Katrina like we hope they will. But if I only get to choose between the two H's, I choose Henry. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that they will finally kill Katrina - they NEED to in order to cajole jittery fans, but whatevs.

Edited by phoenics
BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

The above stupidity is why I'm not watching the show. In Goffman's mind Katrina and CFD are all that matters. I just can't.

Fox wasted there money advertising during Empire.

I'm not sure what Wiseman can do to right the ship. I do find it interesting that Goffman wasn't there and upfront.

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Amethyst

Amethyst

I'm noticing that there are very few episode recaps up for tonight's episode, and that's not a good sign.  I know a lot of viewers skipped out on it, especially since Jane the Virgin returned tonight as well.  But not even EW has a recap up, and they're usually very prompt.  I think the critics are reviewing the better shows first, and doing SH later.  Not a good sign at all.  I don't even want to think about the ratings for this week.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Oh, why am I not surprised. A Katrina-centric Date episode got demo ratings of....

 

1.3!

 

4.16 million viewers before adjustments. That means that half a million viewers bailed because they were disgusted and/or turned off by an episode that features the Crane's on a date. Duh. Go figure. Smart viewers.

 

In a court case, the judge or jury would have ruled "guilty" by now. The evidence is overwhelming.

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Sasha

Sasha

There will still be the same old excuses like Sleepy Hollow was just too different and creative for mainstream audiences to follow. Does anyone think target usually male demo would rather see sexy witch (debatable) with heaving bosoms than a headless dude with a machine gun?

Or worse I keep reading it was a big mistake to expand to 18 episodes. Too hard! Really? Xfiles averaged 24 episodes a season and most shows have 22. Plus all this talk of rebooting the Xfiles when they had a new updated show right here. Crane and Abby were the new Mulder and Scully. Hell even Irving was the new Skinner. They need to kill Katrina immediately preferably kill it with fire and cleanse this show.

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MissAlmond

MissAlmond

 

In a court case, the judge or jury would have ruled "guilty" by now. The evidence is overwhelming.

 

      Unfortunately, some posters are already blaming the drop on FOX not immediately renewing the show and the talk of less serialization.  I guess some people can't handle the truth.

 

Not surprised at all that the A.V. Club loved this episode, they were probably thrilled that Katrina wore, from what I'm reading here, basically a slip.  I really, really hate the majority of comments on that website. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Gotham was at 2.2 and 6.43 million viewers so that is a huge number of people changing channels. 

 

But Look!  They must have switched over to Scorpion which airs at the same time (for me at least) which was at 2.2 and 12 million.

You can't compare it to Gotham, you need to compare SH to SH for looking at gains/loss.  Basically SH just hit a new series low and dropped 3 tenths from the last new original episode (1.6) and 2 tenths from the MSF (1.5).

 

Given that ratings and creative direction were the two reasons FOX cited for holding off on renewal, this certainly doesn't look well for SH.  Granted I still say that SH will get S3 but any excuse that Goffman can offer for why they should stick with him and his creative direction is fruitless.

  • Love 1
MissAlmond

MissAlmond

IMO, if FOX truly intends to save this show, then they need to seek out and hire a respected, top sci-fi writer and quietely ask them how get things back on track after the terrible decisions of Season 3.   A top sci-fi writer should know how to right things without the word "Dallas Dream Season" escaping anyone lips.  FOX should then do a major social media blast annoucing how Top Sci-Fi guy is writing the first few episodes of Season 3 along with what LinaLamont just said.  Reshoots and commercials aren't enough to do the trick.  FOX will need to go hardcore that they're revamping without disrespecting those who wrote for the show before.  Because you never burn bridges, no matter what business you're in.  

HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Gut feeling...not doomed...Will be announcement that there is new EP/SR...thank Goffman & Co for all their hard work...they're going off to better things..."We decided to go in a different direction...blah...blah...blah...yadda...yadda...yadda.".

Of course, I could be wrong, but....

 

I'm hoping not doomed either. Maybe some people bailed on the show because of the TCA announcements. Possibly. But I think it's more the fact that we all knew it was Katrina focused. I mean, the esisode prior to this got half a million more viewers. Goffman and co can sit there and make excuses all they want, but there is a single reason why the show is failing. Okay, maybe not a single reason, but a focus on a particular character and everything connected to her (except Ichabod) that is causing the show the fail. I didn't even think the episode was that bad. Dull, but not cringe-inducing. Still. Ratings don't lie.

  • Love 1
blixie

blixie

(edited)

I think they need to admit in the final meida push: more Abbie (hopefully Ichabbie) centered episodes that SH is "back" I've seen other shows do it. 

 

Honestly I think Fox should have yanked it from the schedule until they totally fixed 13-18, and then done a big push about  how it was back to what you love with lots of clips of sparkly Ichabbie past and future.

Edited by blixie
Indi

Indi

I don't think it's fair to put that kind of pressure on Abbie/Nicole. What if the ratings keep dropping in the next two episodes and they don't come back for the last 3? Something tells me some people will blame her if the show isn't renewed.The retooling needed to happen earlier. FOX should have intervened as soon as they saw how was sidelining the leading lady.

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blixie

blixie

I don't think a single solitary rational industry soul in the universe is going to blame the failure of this show on Nicole Beharie, with or without an ad campaign built around her. She and Tom are going to be FINE after this probably better off honestly, and the entire thing was BUILT around her, and Fox loves her. I think they need to leverage the chemistry between her and Tom and let everyone know they know that's why everyone was watching the first place. 

 

This episode proved I think that the genre stuff can still be effectively spooky, but if you don't give any fucks about who is doing the witnessing than it's for naught.

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marceline

marceline

(edited)

I don't think it's fair to put that kind of pressure on Abbie/Nicole. What if the ratings keep dropping in the next two episodes and they don't come back for the last 3? Something tells me some people will blame her if the show isn't renewed.

 

I don't think so. The Sleepy Hollow Debacle has been well-documented much the way the crash of Heroes and Smash were. Sleepy Hollow is on its way to joining those shows as a cautionary tale of network mismanagement.

Edited by marceline
  • Love 3
BigEasygirl

BigEasygirl

(edited)

Nicole will be fine. More than fine. All this does is give credibility to the hashtags #KatrinaRuinedSleepyHollow and #GoffmanRuinedSleepyHollow. The low rating puts the focus there, and I don't see it shifting to anyone else. Goffman and Co. need to go and so does his muse. I think FOX is getting this message loud and clear and will ultimately to what needs to be done to fix SH.

ETA: Tom and Lorenzo have weighed in on last night's episode. It's chocked full of awesome shade.

“Showrunner Mark Goffman seems to have absolutely no idea why Sleepy Hollow became semi-popular in the first place. It wasn’t because of the hot, whispering white lady, Mark. It was because of the two leads and their insane chemistry with each other.”

http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/01/sleepy-hollow-pittura-infamante/

Edited by Reese
  • Love 6
HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Tom and Lorenzo speak no lies...
 

They (the show) acknowledge that she’s (Katrina) problematic without doing anything to address the problems. She’s still largely useless as a witch, has way too many secrets to be a reliable or believable character, and is performed through a series of monotonic whispers.

 

This made me laugh too:
 

it was an episode of Ichabod & Katrina’s Generic Supernatural Adventures.

 

ETA: Don't forget to read the comments....

  • Love 5
Amethyst

Amethyst

This part from Tom & Lorenzo particularly stuck out for me:

 

No one will cheer louder than us if she [Katrina] turns into some sort of Big Bad Villain – or even if they kill her off, but we honestly don’t know if we’re going to stick around through more episodes like these in order to get to that point.

 

It’s now pretty much a show about two time-tossed lovers having adventures in the 21st Century with their cop sidekick. One more episode like this one and we’re out.

 

And they're right.  Whatever they plan on doing with her, it won't matter if there aren't any viewers.  When the critics are bowing out of the reviews, your show is in the red.  People are sick of this.  All over I'm reading comments like "I gave up after the second episode", or "I'm really glad I didn't watch last night", and "I'm out til the season finale."  I know some people are already in hate-watching territory.  The writing's on the wall.  What else do they need?

  • Love 7
DearEvette

DearEvette

(edited)

Came across a tweet from the Kurtzman/Orci productions twitter handle which says starting ep 15 they 'start a new storyline' that drives everything to the final.  But they started making changes at tail end of ep.14  So there is some evidence that there was absolute response to backlash and ep. 14 is the earliest they were able to address it.  Apparently with so much in the can already I can only guess how much work they had to do to re-conceive the last parts.  And since they just wrapped production it seems likely there was some stuff happening right up to the end.

 

I will say that that particular twitter account @abaiers is very responsive and respectful to the fans (the tweet was response to a fan inquiry).  Huge contrast to that one writer who called fans 'haters' and who I saw was listed not only as a writer, but also an EP for the show in last night's episode.

Edited by DearEvette
  • Love 6
savinggrace

savinggrace

I think things are looking bleak for renewal. The failure to announce a new season may have spurred a segment of viewers to divest themselves of the show to avoid a bigger letdown when it gets cancelled. No one want to be heavily invested in a show that's about to get axed.

 

The fact that they will have to move locales from NC to Atlanta makes me doubly worried. How will they replicate the exteriors? Will they want to spend money building new sets? They may want to just cut their losses at this point.

phoenics

phoenics

Nicole will be fine. More than fine. All this does is give credibility to the hashtags #KatrinaRuinedSleepyHollow and #GoffmanRuinedSleepyHollow. The low rating puts the focus there, and I don't see it shifting to anyone else. Goffman and Co. need to go and so does his muse. I think FOX is getting this message loud and clear and will ultimately to what needs to be done to fix SH.

ETA: Tom and Lorenzo have weighed in on last night's episode. It's chocked full of awesome shade.

“Showrunner Mark Goffman seems to have absolutely no idea why Sleepy Hollow became semi-popular in the first place. It wasn’t because of the hot, whispering white lady, Mark. It was because of the two leads and their insane chemistry with each other.”

http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/01/sleepy-hollow-pittura-infamante/

Whew - that review was absolutely BRUTAL.

What's funny is that right after Deliverance, they weren't yet on the "kill Katrina/make Katrina evil" bandwagon (I think they were pushing for Hawley to be killed off), but they were CRYSTAL clear in this review.

Mark Goffman should NEVER be able to get a show ever again after this mess.

He completely RUINED what should have been a sure thing. All he had to do was KEEP doing what happened in S1. Wow.

  • Love 1
methodwriter85

methodwriter85

 

I don't think a single solitary rational industry soul in the universe is going to blame the failure of this show on Nicole Beharie, with or without an ad campaign built around her. She and Tom are going to be FINE after this probably better off honestly, and the entire thing was BUILT around her, and Fox loves her. I think they need to leverage the chemistry between her and Tom and let everyone know they know that's why everyone was watching the first place.

 

      Yeah, I pretty much think that Nicole Beharie and Tom Misson will be fine whether or not this show gets cancelled. It might actually be for the best if it does. Nicole has earned a helluva lot of respect and goodwill from the industry, and I expect she'll go on and do a lot of good things.

 

       It's Goffman and Katia Winters that might need to look up back-up plans.

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Moonsky

Moonsky

(edited)

I'm hoping not doomed either. Maybe some people bailed on the show because of the TCA announcements. Possibly. But I think it's more the fact that we all knew it was Katrina focused. I mean, the esisode prior to this got half a million more viewers. Goffman and co can sit there and make excuses all they want, but there is a single reason why the show is failing. Okay, maybe not a single reason, but a focus on a particular character and everything connected to her (except Ichabod) that is causing the show the fail. I didn't even think the episode was that bad. Dull, but not cringe-inducing. Still. Ratings don't lie.

 

I haven’t watched this show since the midseason finale (been watching Jane The Virgin instead) so I can’t comment on the quality of the last two episodes however the 1.3 demo & 4.16 million viewers most likely has nothing to do with Sleepy Hollow’s renewal situation. Most television viewers don’t follow industry news that closely (or even keep up with weekly ratings), so news like whether a show has been renewed early or not won’t immediately affect their viewing habits. This show has been operating between a 1.4-1.5 demo & 4.2-4.6 million viewers for a few months now.  The best ratings they got in recent months was for “Mama” which gave them a 1.6 & 4.68 million viewers.

 

Many fans & media predicted weeks ago that the demos would drop below 1.5 & 4 million viewers sometime during the second half of the season. The midseason finale gave the show a 1.5 & 4.51 million viewers but it got a lot of bad reviews so that didn’t help matters. The first episode after the break gave the show a 1.6 demo & 4.48 million viewers. That week a few shows got a shot in the arm especially with the male demos since Monday Night Football was done. So that first episode after the midseason finale probably would’ve held at 1.5 or fallen to 1.4 but most likely got a 1.6 due to football viewers.

 

I read somewhere that Monday’s episode got a 1.4 in the first half but a 1.2 in the second half, which averaged to a 1.3 rating. If that’s true then that probably happened because a portion of the audience must have felt that the episode wasn’t doing enough to keep them interested & decided to turn the channel after the first half.

Edited by Moonsky
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marceline

marceline

IMO, part of the problem is that they can never get back all of the people who quit watching. In most cases, when people quit watching a show they rarely come back. The slide in the ratings point to people just giving up. This whole situation reminds of something similar that happened back when I watched soap operas. It's sad to see it play itself out again in primetime.

  • Love 5
cassandle

cassandle

He's the one who ruined White Collar?  Like I didn't have enough reason to hate him before....

 

If I understand it right, TPTB have a method for determining who records a show on DVR and how long they take to watch it or if it gets deleted without watching, right?  If that's all true, can they tell who fast-forwards through it?  I'm guessing not but I hate the idea of my hate-watching contributing to the ratings.  If they know I'm hate-fast-forwarding I'd be okay with it.

RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

(edited)

He's the one who ruined White Collar?  Like I didn't have enough reason to hate him before....

 

If I understand it right, TPTB have a method for determining who records a show on DVR and how long they take to watch it or if it gets deleted without watching, right?  If that's all true, can they tell who fast-forwards through it?  I'm guessing not but I hate the idea of my hate-watching contributing to the ratings.  If they know I'm hate-fast-forwarding I'd be okay with it.

I'm pretty sure it's only Nielsen families whose DVR viewing is tabulated--there's a device/ thingummy that keeps track---and , yes,I'm pretty sure the most important thing for the network is whether the commercials are watched. If you watch on Hulu etc, though, the network does keep track of that but it's not in the Nielsen ratings as far as I know.

Edited by RiddleyWalker
  • Love 1
marceline

marceline

I don't know about Katia Winters but Goffman seems to have nine lives. He ruined White Collar and lived to ruin another show. Is he the son of an industry heavyweight? 

 

That's what's always amazed me about the TV business. Failure seems to mean nothing. For example, I was astounded to learn that Tim Kring has been put in charge of the Heroes miniseries. After what Goffman did to this show, he shouldn't ever be allowed near another one but I have no doubt he will be.

  • Love 2
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