Speculation Without Spoilers Theories

[Umbelina]

0:19 is the most interesting, recognize anyone there, because I don't, unless that's the mail robot?

[Dev F]

44 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

0:19 is the most interesting, recognize anyone there, because I don't, unless that's the mail robot?

I believe that's the FBI intercepting the KGB agent who recovers the recordings from the Mail Robot bug. (Gabriel mentioned last season that "There are janitors, mailroom clerks who can gain access.")

[Quando]

In case you were wondering, yes, there is a Roy Rogers restaurant in Franconia, Virginia, near Alexandria.  http://royrogersrestaurants.com/node/101  It might be the prearranged location of someone's covert meeting (Oleg & Stan maybe?).

[madam magpie]

Roy Rogers!! That takes me back! They had great cheeseburgers and curly fries.

[jjj]

4 hours ago, Dev F said:

I believe that's the FBI intercepting the KGB agent who recovers the recordings from the Mail Robot bug. (Gabriel mentioned last season that "There are janitors, mailroom clerks who can gain access.")

That is totally the Mail Robot on a surveillance camera; I had forgotten that someone needed to retrieve the tapes. 

Some of the other snippets are past episodes, like the broken bottle in Elizabeth's hand.  And Martha's plane taking off. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, madam magpie said:

Roy Rogers!! That takes me back! They had great cheeseburgers and curly fries.

I like their fried chicken. :)

I love the idea that that's what it's referring to--it probably is just a place for some kind of meet or ambush. I think that's Philip and William running in the tunnel. But I could totally be wrong.

[hellmouse]

My first thought on the tunnel was that it was part of Philip's Mischa flashback, but looking again, I don't think so. Maybe it's Hans and Philip running?

Edited May 27, 2016 by hellmouse

[hellmouse]

I just spent a silly amount of time looking at previous episodes to try to figure out the handoff at around .09. I'm 99% sure it's Philip handing the object to the other person. As far as I can tell, he and Stan wear their watches on their right wrists, while Oleg and William wear them on the left. But Stan's watch has a leather band. Philip's watch is metal and looks exactly like the watch in that snippet of scene. You get a good view of it in S4 ep 4, when they're stuck in the safe house with William and Gabriel.

Of course people can change watches. And it could be from a different episode altogether! But I don't think it's Oleg handing something to Stan - that seems to happen in the car.

Apologies if this should be in the spoiler or speculation threads - I wasn't sure.

[jjj]

I really avoid spoilers, but it seems like this episode thread is a place to talk about the preview for the episode?  Particularly when so many of the images in the "preview" are from past episodes!  It did not occur to me that it was an earlier handoff of Philip. 

[Ina123]

It looks like Alderholt checked out his mail robot repair hunch.

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, hellmouse said:

 

I just spent a silly amount of time looking at previous episodes to try to figure out the handoff at around .09. I'm 99% sure it's Philip handing the object to the other person.

 

I thought that hand off was an old shot of Philip giving the Kimmie stuff to Gabriel, but now I realize I don't at all remember if there was a close up of that-there probably wouldn't have been.

[SunnyBeBe]

With all the integrity that this show has, I wonder why FX insists on showing misleading previews for the next week's episodes.  I find it rather bizarre. 

[Umbelina]

Mad Men's were much more vague.

[hellmouse]

11 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

With all the integrity that this show has, I wonder why FX insists on showing misleading previews for the next week's episodes.  I find it rather bizarre. 

I love it. At first, it confused me, but once I realized that they consistently use old clips in the previews, it didn't bother me. 

It would bother me on other shows, but here I feel like they are communicating the tone while not spoiling the contents. I like to be as surprised as possible!

[sistermagpie]

16 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

With all the integrity that this show has, I wonder why FX insists on showing misleading previews for the next week's episodes.  I find it rather bizarre. 

 

I don't think they're really misleading. The old clips tend to just point you in the direction of stuff going on even if it's not what's going to happen. Like they'll be a mention of a threat with a shot of Pastor Tim to tell us that's the general idea of the threat. Or here Paige talks about Elizabeth killing someone and there's a shot of her doing that this week. They still give you an idea of some things that are going to happen in the episode.

Mad Men's, as Umbelina said, were totally vague. Usually a collection of people standing in doorways, lines that sounded important out of context but would turn out to not be important in context, and lines that sounded unimportant out of context but would turn out to be important in context.

[hellmouse]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I thought that hand off was an old shot of Philip giving the Kimmie stuff to Gabriel, but now I realize I don't at all remember if there was a close up of that-there probably wouldn't have been.

You're right. It's from the bar scene in the David Copperfield V Statue of Liberty ep. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by hellmouse

[SunnyBeBe]

I guess you guys study it more than I do.  I prefer the preview for the next episode to be a preview of the next episode.  I don't really care to sort through what is old, what is new, have I seen it before, why is one scene jammed into another to make it appear that one thing is going to happen, when indeed, it is not going to happen, etc.  It seems sneaky and misleading  to me.  

[AliShibaz]

1 hour ago, kikaha said:

I feel Philip and Elizabeth are like two jugglers, trying to keep 15 balls in the air.  The slightest miscalculation will send them all tumbling to the ground.  The latest absurdity -- dinner with the pastor and Stan -- pushed things a bit too far into the unbelievable basket for me.  

At some point Stan will learn who Philip and Elizabeth really are.  The feeling of betrayal will hit him like a 10-ton semi careening out of control. 

 

Spoiler

WARNING - this post contains some very fanciful flights of imagination and is not intended to be taken seriously. In fact, I think it must really be considered to be "just joking". Although, maybe not?

I do not write for a living and this post should make it clear why that is true.

Recently I've been thinking about the final episode for Season 6. Apparently, HBO has said that will also be the finale for the whole show. Can you imagine what would happen if even a small number of all of the outstanding issues that need to be resolved were resolved during that episode? There are so many, I can't even come close to listing them all.

.  Stan realizes the Jennings are KGB officers. Oh what a delightful writing job it would be to show what would happen to his career. On the one hand, it was good that Stan discovered his next door neighbors were KGB spies. But on the other hand, Stan would forever be known as a bumbling fool who lived next door to KGB spies and didn't figure it out for 5 or 6 years. Would the net result be good for Stan? Or bad for  Stan? He would likely be asked to retire. The FBI would not like it's agents to look like imbeciles in the national media. Stan may well suffer a similar fate to Special Agent in Charge Gaad.

.  Martha's parents are forced to confront the truth about their daughter. Her father has said that Martha was just "too clever" and "too good" to ever fall for marrying a KGB agent. Perhaps there was a good reason the Casting Director chose a known actor to play the part of Martha's father. He would get a very powerful appearance during the finale to show the impact the KGB has on ordinary average Americans. That could be a very small or very large appearance. There is so much damage for which people would like to see "come home to roost".

.  Stan's murder of that nice young Russian lad who just wanted to be a doctor would be discovered and Stan would have to pay for that. Perhaps the price would be as little as being forced to retire from the FBI. Perhaps it could be as much as Stan and Phillip sharing a cell or inhabiting neighboring cells? In a perfect world, the prison people might reserve three cells and keep E in the center cell with P and Stan in cells adjoining to E's cell? Then, Henry could come visit "his pal" Stan and they could play video games in the penitentiary.

.  I would guess that before any arrests are made, one or more federal law enforcement agencies would bug all of the major characters in this story for several weeks or months before they arrest them and then Paige would give plenty of evidence that would result in her going to prison too (of course I'm just guessing and this is all very unlikely). The law enforcement agencies could pick and choose just who they would want to see arrested and charged.

Even better, I wonder if the laws in the 1980s would protect what was said between a spy and their minister? If Treason was exempt from the laws concerning "priviliged information", maybe Tim and Alice could also be sent to prison?

.  The mystery of what those 3 KGB agents were going to propose to Agent Gaad needs to be revealed. I wonder if that is when all the secrets about Tatiana will be revealed. Is it possible the KGB could ever recruit a real nymphomaniac to work with all these unimaginable bio-tech weapons of mass destruction? At the very least, if Oleg and Tatiana decide to make their relationship permanent, I wonder if they will be shown riding into the East - into the setting sun (oh what a terrible joke).

If anyone else would like to list any of the other outstanding mysteries or crimes that need some resolution or at least requrie their chickens to come home to roost, please feel free to add some of your own fantasies to this list. I'd really love to hear a description of how Marvin would get arrested and punished for his part in the espionage his wife committed.

Edited May 29, 2016 by AliShibaz

[WTEngel]

I am wondering if they will scan the mail robot for bugs, find a device, and then use it to set up a false trap for whoever is listening on the other end.

So they think a bug is in the mail robot. Have a conversation about the big op they are running next week next to it, go to the site of the fake operation and then wait to see who shows up.

To add some spice to this, what if Stan innocuously blabs to his Phillip about how he is running a tight operation and the thinks he is finally going to catch the people that killed his former boss. The Russians don't show up, and there is renewed suspicion that a mole still exists in the department. Aderholdt picks up on this, gets suspicious about Stan's neighbors and his relationship with Oleg (who he has been refusing to turn so far) and now Stan is a fall guy for the the inside man.

Also, Stan did wear that device into the computer lab to look for the stealth technology a few seasons back. He has been close enough to defecting that I am sure if they dug around they might be able to find enough to glue together some sort of story that makes sense enough to at least make his life hell. 

One last thing I will add is that the new boss (who replaced Gaad) is being described as extremely professionally motivated and highly upward mobile. You think he will hesitate for a second to rush an investigation that serves to throw someone, anyone, under the bus, as fast as possible, for all the shenanigans that have been occurring in that department? The faster he throws someone under the bus, the faster he gets his promotion, the faster it is someone else's problem...

This is just some random speculation though, obviously.

[jjj]

5 hours ago, WTEngel said:

...what if Stan innocuously blabs to his Phillip about how he is running a tight operation and the thinks he is finally going to catch the people that killed his former boss. The Russians don't show up, and there is renewed suspicion that a mole still exists in the department. Aderholdt picks up on this, gets suspicious about Stan's neighbors and his relationship with Oleg (who he has been refusing to turn so far) and now Stan is a fall guy for the the inside man.

Also, Stan did wear that device into the computer lab to look for the stealth technology a few seasons back. He has been close enough to defecting that I am sure if they dug around they might be able to find enough to glue together some sort of story that makes sense enough to at least make his life hell. 

 

All Stan has done is to refer twice about his retired boss to Philip -- I can't imagine Stan talking about an active operation to the neighbors. 

The FBI keeps thinking that the tapes they have of Stan talking to Oleg were enough to blackmail him into cooperating -- but those could have been so easily explained to the Rezidentura.  I think Stan's copying of computer files and the type of information he handed off to Nina is much more incriminating, and I don't think the extent of that was revealed by Stan to the FBI.  I might have forgotten that he told them everything about the information he gave the Russians. 

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, jjj said:

The FBI keeps thinking that the tapes they have of Stan talking to Oleg were enough to blackmail him into cooperating -- but those could have been so easily explained to the Rezidentura.  I think Stan's copying of computer files and the type of information he handed off to Nina is much more incriminating, and I don't think the extent of that was revealed by Stan to the FBI.  I might have forgotten that he told them everything about the information he gave the Russians. 

I don't think he revealed anything except that he was meeting with Oleg to try to turn him. Sneaking in to copy info on stealth technology that he ultimately didn't decide to hand over ever came up that I know if!

[jjj]

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think he revealed anything except that he was meeting with Oleg to try to turn him. Sneaking in to copy info on stealth technology that he ultimately didn't decide to hand over ever came up that I know if!

Thank you!  You are right, and I had forgotten what Stan did and did not pass along.  So he is the only one who knows that he actually did manage to access and copy secret information -- and even though he did not hand over the information he copied, if anyone found out he had even gotten that far would have serious repercussions. 

[hellmouse]

What about when Stan got the surveillance reports for Oleg? I can't remember if he told the FBI that he did that or not. 

[Anela]

Do you think we'll find out what those agents wanted with Gaad? Philip said he put his vacation to Thailand, into his report. 

[Umbelina]

Yes, I think we will, through Arkady, who was obviously aware of that mission.

[sistermagpie]

25 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

What about when Stan got the surveillance reports for Oleg? I can't remember if he told the FBI that he did that or not. 

My guess is he didn't tell them that. Stan and Oleg had two seasons together--the first one was Stan trying to protect Nina and the second trying to get Nina back. I get the impression he told them about the second part and not the first. Or that is, Gaad seemed to suss out the second part for himself with Stan trying to get Nina back and Stan just turned it into him working Oleg.

Edited May 30, 2016 by sistermagpie

[crgirl412]

On May 26, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Quando said:

In case you were wondering, yes, there is a Roy Rogers restaurant in Franconia, Virginia, near Alexandria.  http://royrogersrestaurants.com/node/101  It might be the prearranged location of someone's covert meeting (Oleg & Stan maybe?).

I lived very, very close to a Roy Rogers until we moved when I was 7 (in 1977.)   I loved the smell of it and thought the Fixins' Bar was so cool!!

[Moose135]

21 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

I lived very, very close to a Roy Rogers until we moved when I was 7 (in 1977.)   I loved the smell of it and thought the Fixins' Bar was so cool!!

Roy Rogers is my all time favorite fast food place - Triggerburgers Rule!

[TimWil]

Here's my somewhat outrageous dream speculation for next week's season finale:

Elizabeth is in the cereal aisle at a supermarket. She hears a voice behind her-"Hello, Patty." She turns around. It's Young Hee, a frozen smile on her face. Young Hee says "Oh, wait. So sorry. ELIZABETH. I've had some help tracking you down, no need to tell you who helped me. All you need to know is this-because of you I've had to shoot my husband and children in their heads. They've become what's known here as collateral damage. And in Pyongyang I will no doubt be hailed for my help securing bio-weapons intel for my country and our Great Leader Kim Il-Sung. I would take great pleasure in shooting YOUR husband and children in their heads before I leave here but that's not possible. I just hope you always have nightmares about what you did to us." And she calmly walks away, leaving a stunned Elizabeth holding a box of Kellogg's Banana Frosted Flakes.

Edited June 4, 2016 by TimWil

[SunnyBeBe]

Interesting concept.  What do you mean that she had to kill her family though? So, she was a spy for her country and that Elizabeth's plan got in her way, but yet she worked around it and got the bio intel, even though Don was eventually discovered?  

[hellmouse]

I was thinking about Oleg telling Stan about the scientist. We know it's William and that this will be the second time Oleg has given up a Soviet agent (the first time being Zinaida) to the Americans. I know he did the first one to try to help Nina. Now he's now trying to prevent biowarfare, and it's totally possible that he doesn't realize he's betraying the identity of an illegal. The only other character I can recall giving up so much information was Martha, and she at least has the excuse of having been emotionally manipulated into doing so, at least in the beginning. 

Could that mean Oleg's fate will be similar to Martha's, and he'll be going back to Russia? Will Arkady be forced to designate someone who will be PNG'd as a result of the biowarfare revelations? Maybe he will have to choose between Oleg and Tatiana, and ends up choosing Oleg to go back to Russia.

It seems most likely that it's Tatiana who's going, with Arkady and Oleg sticking around. But this show always surprises, and it would be interesting to see Arkady forced into that tough decision. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by hellmouse

[SunnyBeBe]

I guess that the Russians will not know how they were discovered on the bio weapon mission.  I suppose that Tatiana may have strong suspicions that it was Oleg, since she knows that she opened up to him about it.  Few people would have the information to give to the FBI.  The thing about Oleg at this point, is that if she ask him, he may admit to it.  He seems to have grown disenchanted and even may suspect that he will never see his mom again, from the way their phone conversation went.  Do you think he'll take the fall for Tatiana?

[Umbelina]

The FBI could have discovered William was bad in any number of ways.  He had an incredibly long run, 30 years, very lucky.  They know the FBI was watching everyone connected, all it would have taken was someone saying "Hey, this thing is big, let's go over everyone's security checks again."  Just a routine thing, and he would have been exposed.  An off duty FBI agent could have seen him doing something "off."  There is a new head guy in DC, they lost Martha's intel, it's not a leap.

If Tatiana has a brain in her head she will never mention her pillow talk with Oleg, and neither will he. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by Umbelina

[SunnyBeBe]

There are lots of possibilities of how things may go down with Tatiana and Oleg.  I just see him as feeling bad that he ruined her career and not being able to hide it.  And if she confronts him, he may feel bad enough to admit it to her.  It's risky, but I can envision it.  Then, she may develop a scheme for payback, especially, if her promotion and transfer is held up. 

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

 

The FBI could have discovered William was bad in any number of ways.  He had an incredibly long run, 30 years, very lucky.  They know the FBI was watching everyone connected, all it would have taken was someone saying "Hey, this thing is big, let's go over everyone's security checks again."  Just a routine thing, and he would have been exposed.  An off duty FBI agent could have seen him doing something "off."  There is a new head guy in DC, they lost Martha's intel, it's not a leap.

 

And Oleg getting away with it might put him in a tighter spot dramatically, being outside the grief for the Illegal since he feels guilty and certainly open to pressure from the FBI.

[Blakeston]

On 6/9/2016 at 10:24 AM, RedHawk said:

I agree that the previews giving away William's sacrifice was a real misstep. The preview editors usually work so hard to obfuscate and confuse, so what were they thinking?!

I think there was a conscious choice this season to make the previews more spoilery than they used to be. In addition to showing us William contaminating himself, there was also the episode that ended with Elizabeth asking the Center to attempt to get Don's code some other way - which was followed by a preview where Gabriel tells her the attempt failed.

I have to wonder if FX decided, "With these ratings, we need the previews to hook people in any way possible."

Edited June 17, 2016 by Blakeston

[Milburn Stone]

20 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Like stagmania, this just reinforces my policy of avoiding previews like the plague.  I suspect most showrunners hate them--they are just forced to have them by network policy, I think.

+1

[Clanstarling]

I think you're right, @milburnstone, previews are likely required by the networks. I think more shows should take the Mad Men route - where it was impossible to tell what was going to happen based on the snippets they showed. They were so vague they were hilarious. I rarely watch the previews of any show, and when I do, I am always sorry. If I like a show, I don't need a teaser to remind me to come back next week.

[SunnyBeBe]

What is the difference in Tuan's age and Paige's age?  I'm wondering if Tuan can be used to steer Paige away from Matthew.  I mean, she may have an interest in meeting a young spy just to see how they deal with it. 

[sistermagpie]

44 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

What is the difference in Tuan's age and Paige's age?  I'm wondering if Tuan can be used to steer Paige away from Matthew.  I mean, she may have an interest in meeting a young spy just to see how they deal with it. 

 

Seems like he might be an adult who's just passing as a teenager. But I don't see why he'd be a good person to set her up with. Philip would hardly want her hanging around with Mr. "put a bullet in his head for his disloyalty to the USSR." He'd be no help at all. 

Paige isn't a spy, she's just the daughter of spies. And P&E would probably rather control what information she gets about what spies do.

[John S]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

What is the difference in Tuan's age and Paige's age?  I'm wondering if Tuan can be used to steer Paige away from Matthew.  I mean, she may have an interest in meeting a young spy just to see how they deal with it. 

Tuan was P&E's "first" child. He may have been Paige's age when he was with them but he would be, at least, 17 years older now.

[maraleia]

6 minutes ago, John S said:

Tuan was P&E's "first" child. He may have been Paige's age when he was with them but he would be, at least, 17 years older now.

That doesn't make sense based on the timeline of the show and when the Vietnam War ended.

[John S]

1 minute ago, maraleia said:

That doesn't make sense based on the timeline of the show and when the Vietnam War ended.

What doesn't make sense? P&E had completely different jobs. They had their high school aged "son" Tuan. Since the show is now in 1984, Paige would be 17 or 18.

That is now a completely different family - about 18 years later.

[kokapetl]

46 minutes ago, John S said:

What doesn't make sense? P&E had completely different jobs. They had their high school aged "son" Tuan. Since the show is now in 1984, Paige would be 17 or 18.

That is now a completely different family - about 18 years later.

Tuan's scene in the school cafeteria had 80s-tastic music. 

[ChromaKelly]

2 hours ago, John S said:

Tuan was P&E's "first" child. He may have been Paige's age when he was with them but he would be, at least, 17 years older now.

Did I miss something? I took this to be the first time P&E worked with Tuan.

[maraleia]

2 hours ago, John S said:

What doesn't make sense? P&E had completely different jobs. They had their high school aged "son" Tuan. Since the show is now in 1984, Paige would be 17 or 18.

That is now a completely different family - about 18 years later.

This is a newer assignment for P&E not in the past. They make it very clear when they do flashbacks and this wasn't one of them.

[John S]

I guess we will find out in future episodes.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, John S said:

What doesn't make sense? P&E had completely different jobs. They had their high school aged "son" Tuan. Since the show is now in 1984, Paige would be 17 or 18.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Paige is 16 years old. Tuan the man is presumably in his 20s. Tuan the son of Brad and Dee, the is playing, is probably 15-17. Tuan and Paige are both currently in 1984.

[Janc]

Ok, my theory:  this new storyline with (sorry don't remember their names) the defector father and Oleg working on the agricultural angle in Moscow is going to be how Stan discovers P and E as agents, in their undercover gear. Oleg will learn of the defector thru his work and will get word to Stan there is someone sympathetic to the US interests. Although their house appears to be watched, Stan will be meeting the father when P and E show up.   Love this show! 

[sistermagpie]

55 minutes ago, Janc said:

Oleg will learn of the defector thru his work and will get word to Stan there is someone sympathetic to the US interests. Although their house appears to be watched, Stan will be meeting the father when P and E show up.   Love this show! 

The government already knows this guy is sympathetic to US interests. He works for the US and tells them the USSR is garbage for a living.