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maraleia

By maraleia
in Law & Order: SVU

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Culture Check: How do we recognize and address victim blaming as a community? If you are unsure what victim-blaming is, please read more about it in this article. 

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Jaded

Jaded

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Ugh, I want to throw up. Why the fuck am I even still watching this god awful soap opera? I’m so tempted to skip the next episode, but I’m sure I’ll suffer through it.

It's been really nice since I finally quit slogging through new episodes a few seasons ago. It started to go to hell in a handbasket after Munch, Cragen and even Amaro were written off. I've always hated the awful way they wrote for Amaro during most of Danny Pino's run on the show since I like him as an actor. Once they all left it quit being an actual ensemble show and became "St. Oliva: SVU" where she was the star while everyone else became supporting characters. So many former characters were brought back for short times so the writers could perform character assignation on them to boost Olivia even more. I'm still super salty about how Barba was written out and that they completely squandered what they had with the Peter Stone character since he had familial ties to the mothership. 

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wknt3
wknt3

Unfortunately sometimes the news is depressing.... RIP Actor and Comedian Richard Belzer, Munch of “SVU” and “Homicide,” Famous for Dry Sense of Humor

Xeliou66
Xeliou66

Damn, RIP Richard Belzer/Munch. He was an absolute legend. Munch was such a great character on both SVU and Homicide, one of tv’s most memorable detectives.  I really hope SVU pays tribute to him be

WendyCR72
WendyCR72

John Munch and Richard Belzer gave this show a much-needed sense of levity amidst the sorrow and despair. And it was invaluable, as we now see how dreary the show has been without it. John Munch

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

5 minutes ago, Jaded said:

It's been really nice since I finally quit slogging through new episodes a few seasons ago. It started to go to hell in a handbasket after Munch, Cragen and even Amaro were written off. I've always hated the awful way they wrote for Amaro during most of Danny Pino's run on the show since I like him as an actor. Once they all left it quit being an actual ensemble show and became "St. Oliva: SVU" where she was the star while everyone else became supporting characters. So many former characters were brought back for short times so the writers could perform character assignation on them to boost Olivia even more. I'm still super salty about how Barba was written out and that they completely squandered what they had with the Peter Stone character since he had familial ties to the mothership. 

Yeah I’m sick of characters being trashed just to give St Olivia more drama and make her look great. Cragen and Munch are missed terribly. The exits for Barba and Stone were just beyond awful and disgraceful, and having them both fall in love with Olivia was a joke. I’m so tempted to quit the show, I’m just hoping with the exit of Rollins (who I hate) that the show will focus more on the cases and the 4 characters not named Benson, but if it becomes even more of a Benson worship-fest I may quit. The show is just no longer about the cases and is no longer compelling most of the time, it’s mostly about soapy personal drama and Benson saving the world.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

38 minutes ago, dttruman said:

For what it's worth, a supposed blockbuster article about Hargitay and Meloni probably shacking up, but doesn't go anywhere.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/law-order-stars-mariska-hargitay-103216710.html

What a pathetic clickbait tabloid garbage article. Both Meloni and Hargitay have been married to other people for years and they’ve never been in a relationship, they’ve just been good friends. Tabloid trash should be ashamed for trying to rile people up with clickbait headlines. 

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CrystalBlue

CrystalBlue

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

What a pathetic clickbait tabloid garbage article. Both Meloni and Hargitay have been married to other people for years and they’ve never been in a relationship, they’ve just been good friends. Tabloid trash should be ashamed for trying to rile people up with clickbait headlines. 

I love tabloid trash, but only if it's true. 😁 Other caveats include no minors.

As if Mariska and Christopher would be trashy and be commiting adultery on their respective spouses...

I won't even click and read the article.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

3 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

David Graziano, SVU's new showrunner has been accused.

Law & Order: SVU Showrunner's Accusations Article

Yikes. This will look really bad for the show if this guy turns out to be a turd, and given how many turds there are in Hollywood it wouldn’t shock me. But with the show supposedly supposed to be all about “victim empowerment” and raising awareness of issues, having a creep bully as the showrunner is a terrible look. And I can’t help but wonder if they knew of his reputation before hiring him, and how much Hargitay knows, given that it seems like MH is the real showrunner.  

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wknt3

wknt3

On 12/8/2022 at 9:55 PM, CrystalBlue said:

David Graziano, SVU's new showrunner has been accused.

Law & Order: SVU Showrunner's Accusations Article

On 12/9/2022 at 1:40 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Yikes. This will look really bad for the show if this guy turns out to be a turd, and given how many turds there are in Hollywood it wouldn’t shock me. But with the show supposedly supposed to be all about “victim empowerment” and raising awareness of issues, having a creep bully as the showrunner is a terrible look. And I can’t help but wonder if they knew of his reputation before hiring him, and how much Hargitay knows, given that it seems like MH is the real showrunner.  


Dick Wolf valuing a track record of keeping shows on time and on budget over any creative or ethical concerns does not shock me in the slightest. I'm a little surprised that NBC did not due some additional due diligence and step in given that they seem to be a little bit more concerned about image and have been willing to pick fights with Dick Wolf over a lot less than this.

As far as Mariska she is not the real showrunner. She has a lot of power, but has not been the real showrunner since Season 18. Ever since then NBC and/or Dick Wolf have made sure to hire experienced showrunners who can stand up to Mariska and there has been an obvious struggle between what Mariska wants and trying to make a show that appeals to more than just Mariska stans. If Mariska was running the show they would have promoted Julie Martin and we would have another season of constant Benoah mixed with "he said, she said" cases involving rich and powerful white men. As far as this situation we will have to wait until the oral history is published after the show is finally mercifully cancelled and even then I doubt we will ever know the truth. It would not surprise me if she heard and expressed concerned. It would also nor surprise me to find out she ia like Jenna on 30 Rock and is completely blind to everything that does not immediately concern her.
 

3 hours ago, dttruman said:

I guess they a have a built in excuse now, to explain why many of the episodes are less than adequate or outright suck.

OTOH the new opening credits and theme song is amazing.

"Showrunner flipped, we have no script, why bother to rehearse?"
 

SVUIT.jpg

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

8 minutes ago, wknt3 said:


Dick Wolf valuing a track record of keeping shows on time and on budget over any creative or ethical concerns does not shock me in the slightest. I'm a little surprised that NBC did not due some additional due diligence and step in given that they seem to be a little bit more concerned about image and have been willing to pick fights with Dick Wolf over a lot less than this.

As far as Mariska she is not the real showrunner. She has a lot of power, but has not been the real showrunner since Season 18. Ever since then NBC and/or Dick Wolf have made sure to hire experienced showrunners who can stand up to Mariska and there has been an obvious struggle between what Mariska wants and trying to make a show that appeals to more than just Mariska stans. If Mariska was running the show they would have promoted Julie Martin and we would have another season of constant Benoah mixed with "he said, she said" cases involving rich and powerful white men. As far as this situation we will have to wait until the oral history is published after the show is finally mercifully cancelled and even then I doubt we will ever know the truth. It would not surprise me if she heard and expressed concerned. It would also nor surprise me to find out she ia like Jenna on 30 Rock and is completely blind to everything that does not immediately concern her.
 

OTOH the new opening credits and theme song is amazing.

"Showrunner flipped, we have no script, why bother to rehearse?"
 

SVUIT.jpg

I think MH has a lot more power than you seem to think - I mean look at the amount of Benson worship that they pile into almost every episode, and Noah still is shoved into a lot of plots, and even when Rollins is leaving the episode is still more about Benson/Noah than about Rollins. It’s true that they’ve brought in showrunners to give us more variety of stories and some of the writers do seem to care about making a show that appeals to people other than the die hard MH/Benson lovers, but Mariska still seems to have most of the power, and it’s more obvious this season than in past seasons.  
And while I’m not trying to blame MH for Graziano’s alleged inappropriate behavior, I do wonder if they had any idea about what kind of person he was when they hired him, I have to imagine he would have a reputation for this kind of behavior, and I can’t help but wonder how much Mariska knows about this, given that she tries to portray herself as some kind of voice for female empowerment, it would make her look very bad if she had any idea about this, I make no secret of thinking MH seems full of herself and out of touch. It just seems like SVU would try very hard to not have somebody like Graziano running the show given the subject matter and how Mariska tries to portray herself as an activist.

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wknt3

wknt3

On 12/11/2022 at 5:09 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I think MH has a lot more power than you seem to think - I mean look at the amount of Benson worship that they pile into almost every episode, and Noah still is shoved into a lot of plots, and even when Rollins is leaving the episode is still more about Benson/Noah than about Rollins. It’s true that they’ve brought in showrunners to give us more variety of stories and some of the writers do seem to care about making a show that appeals to people other than the die hard MH/Benson lovers, but Mariska still seems to have most of the power, and it’s more obvious this season than in past seasons.  
And while I’m not trying to blame MH for Graziano’s alleged inappropriate behavior, I do wonder if they had any idea about what kind of person he was when they hired him, I have to imagine he would have a reputation for this kind of behavior, and I can’t help but wonder how much Mariska knows about this, given that she tries to portray herself as some kind of voice for female empowerment, it would make her look very bad if she had any idea about this, I make no secret of thinking MH seems full of herself and out of touch. It just seems like SVU would try very hard to not have somebody like Graziano running the show given the subject matter and how Mariska tries to portray herself as an activist.


I think she has a lot of power. And if the showrunner has a #metoo problem she might be the dominant creative force again. I just think we are too quick to see her as calling the shots when as an outside observer she has been one part of a creative triangle after Season 18 with a more established showrunner pushing back and NBC/Dick Wolf making some big picture decisions. She probably is more powerful as the new guy doesn't have the same Dick Wolf Productions experience and there is not the same desperation to keep the franchise alive as there was 5 years ago, but the show isn't driven entirely by her agenda. For which we can all be relieved as without a countervailing voice we would have a rerun of Season 18 with a lower budget. Who knows we may end up with that if Graziano ends up canned and they promote Julie Martin which would mean that she gets to do whatever she wants except for casting and budget. Or maybe we will get really lucky and the will bring in Rene Balcer to right the ship and NBC will decide it's time to end it? I don't think anyone knows anything except for those on the inside and even they probably don;t know everything or at least don't agree.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

22 minutes ago, dttruman said:

E! finally promoting Dixon appearance on SVU and we might see more of Dixon in the future

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/law-order-camryn-manheim-teases-170000043.html

It will be nice to see Dixon crossover, I like Dixon, and I’m really hoping this opens the door for future crossovers, I’m really wanting a Jack McCoy appearance on SVU where Carisi consults with him. 

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dttruman

dttruman

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

It will be nice to see Dixon crossover, I like Dixon, and I’m really hoping this opens the door for future crossovers, I’m really wanting a Jack McCoy appearance on SVU where Carisi consults with him. 

Who out ranks who Dixon or Benson. If Dixon does and she shows up in a few more of the SVU episodes, will she let Benson off easy for some of her obvious examples of disregarding protocol?

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

31 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Who out ranks who Dixon or Benson. If Dixon does and she shows up in a few more of the SVU episodes, will she let Benson off easy for some of her obvious examples of disregarding protocol?

I think they are equals - technically Benson outranks Dixon as she’s a captain while Dixon is a lieutenant, but both are in charge of a detective squad and have similar duties, so I don’t see one bossing around the other much.

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wknt3

wknt3

(edited)
On 1/5/2023 at 4:06 PM, dttruman said:

Who out ranks who Dixon or Benson. If Dixon does and she shows up in a few more of the SVU episodes, will she let Benson off easy for some of her obvious examples of disregarding protocol?

 

On 1/5/2023 at 4:39 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I think they are equals - technically Benson outranks Dixon as she’s a captain while Dixon is a lieutenant, but both are in charge of a detective squad and have similar duties, so I don’t see one bossing around the other much.


That has turned about to be accurate so far, but are you really not able to see Benson not bossing around someone? Anyone? Seriously? I mean she has seen fit to tell basically everyone she ever met what to do including her own commanding officers, the federal government and Jack McCoy...

Edited by wknt3
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dttruman

dttruman

17 hours ago, wknt3 said:

That has turned about to be accurate so far, but are you really not able to see Benson not bossing around someone? Anyone? Seriously? I mean she has seen fit to tell basically everyone she ever met what to do including her own commanding officers, the federal government and Jack McCoy...

I guess what I am trying to determine is who will tell Benson to "take a flying leap", when she tries to give them an order when they know she has no authority to do so?

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

29 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I guess what I am trying to determine is who will tell Benson to "take a flying leap", when she tries to give them an order when they know she has no authority to do so?

No one will do that, because MH’s ego is so large now and she has so much control over the show that no one will ever tell off St Olivia unless they are a villain that St Olivia will bring down. No “good guy” is allowed to criticize Benson now.

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dttruman

dttruman

Something from Buzz Feed, which I am thinking was not too well thought out.  They are trying to rank the detectives from the "Law & Order" Universe. Some are stars from their own specific Law & Order series, while others are just part-time regulars. So it will be totally subjective.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ranked-every-law-order-detective-214603713.html?a20_comeback_from_auth=1

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

15 hours ago, dttruman said:

Something from Buzz Feed, which I am thinking was not too well thought out.  They are trying to rank the detectives from the "Law & Order" Universe. Some are stars from their own specific Law & Order series, while others are just part-time regulars. So it will be totally subjective.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ranked-every-law-order-detective-214603713.html?a20_comeback_from_auth=1

Yeah this list is as bad as I expected, although it’s a pleasant surprise St Olivia didn’t place #1, and Lennie rightfully did. But how in the absolute fuck is Muncy in the top 20?! She’s horrible. That alone makes the list a joke. Muncy belongs at the bottom of the barrel alongside Beauty Queen from the Mothership and Chester Lake from SVU, oh and Kat should be at the bottom as well, I’m pleased she wasn’t rated highly. Wheeler from CI should be at the bottom as well, dull as dirt. I’m no Rollins fan but Rollins was a more intriguing character  than Muncy. Also this list didn’t rank every detective as I noticed Cerreta and Greevey were absent, yet they included Dani Vertiz, who was only in season 21’s 10 episodes of L&O and her name was never even said. They included Bishop from CI as well. This list seems biased towards SVU and OC detectives, which isn’t surprising.

I don’t know if I could rank my favorite detectives but I could try - Lennie Briscoe would definitely be #1, Munch and Goren would be in my top 5, and I would probably round out the top 5 with Green and Logan. My bottom 5 would probably be Beauty Queen, Lake, Kat, Muncy and Bishop or Wheeler from CI. 

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

Was pleasantly surprised at the rankings! But I am shocked that Megan Wheeler was so much higher than Nola Falacci. Seems many CI viewers preferred Wheeler's temp replacement to her when Julianne Nicholson was on maternity leave.

And why the hell is Grace Muncy - a true newbie - so damned high on the list?!

So glad to see Alex Eames place in the Top 10. While I love Goren, Eames deserves her due, too.

(And every time I see Brian Cassidy [Dean Winters], I think of Mayhem in the Prudential ads. Or as dirty cop Mike Stoat on CI.)

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

5 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Was pleasantly surprised at the rankings! But I am shocked that Megan Wheeler was so much higher than Nola Falacci. Seems many CI viewers preferred Wheeler's temp replacement to her when Julianne Nicholson was on maternity leave.

And why the hell is Grace Muncy - a true newbie - so damned high on the list?!

So glad to see Alex Eames place in the Top 10. While I love Goren, Eames deserves her due, too.

(And every time I see Brian Cassidy [Dean Winters], I think of Mayhem in the Prudential ads. Or as dirty cop Mike Stoat on CI.)

Eames is underrated by some as Goren overshadows her but she’s great as well, she would place right outside of my top 5. But like I said, this list is heavily focused on SVU and OC characters. I haven’t watched much of OC so I couldn’t rank those detectives, but yeah Muncy is way too high, and she’s just not a good character, she comes off as a juvenile, it’s impossible to take her seriously.

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dttruman

dttruman

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Eames is underrated by some as Goren overshadows her but she’s great as well, she would place right outside of my top 5. But like I said, this list is heavily focused on SVU and OC characters. I haven’t watched much of OC so I couldn’t rank those detectives, but yeah Muncy is way too high, and she’s just not a good character, she comes off as a juvenile, it’s impossible to take her seriously.

I agree also about the ranking too high of Muncy. In fact, I am starting to believe this is a conspiracy to try and pump up the popularity of Muncy as a character. I think Buzz Feed is doing a favor for Wolf Entertainment or for SVU in particular. Do you think this list should not be about ranking them as individuals, but it should be a list of pairs of detectives?

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Jaded

Jaded

On 1/23/2023 at 7:55 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Was pleasantly surprised at the rankings! But I am shocked that Megan Wheeler was so much higher than Nola Falacci. Seems many CI viewers preferred Wheeler's temp replacement to her when Julianne Nicholson was on maternity leave.

And why the hell is Grace Muncy - a true newbie - so damned high on the list?!

So glad to see Alex Eames place in the Top 10. While I love Goren, Eames deserves her due, too.

(And every time I see Brian Cassidy [Dean Winters], I think of Mayhem in the Prudential ads. Or as dirty cop Mike Stoat on CI.)

I loved the Nola character and always wished they could have found some way to keep her around.

In regards to Grace Muncy it made me wonder if the person who complied this list is/was a Days of Our Lives fan.

I was happy to Eames in the top 10 too even though I would have placed her up a number or two. 

I wasn't too thrilled with Curtis placing so high in that list.

In addition to thinking of Mayhem and his character on CI I also think of the show Oz in regards to Dean Winters. His character on that show was quite the change from Brian Cassidy in a good way for him.

I'm glad Munch was in the top 10. He was the other reason I started watching SVU from the start because of following him over from Homicide: Life on the Street. Munch and Fin together brought a sense of levity to SVU which seems to have disappeared since his character was written off.  It's felt like the writers haven't really known what to really do with Fin since.

Well all of that and the fact that everyone else on the show has played second banana to Saint Liv for way too many years now. It frustrates me that it felt like the ensemble feeling really started to disappear after making sure Amaro was thoroughly trashed as a character so he could be written off.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

5 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Unfortunately sometimes the news is depressing....

RIP Actor and Comedian Richard Belzer, Munch of “SVU” and “Homicide,” Famous for Dry Sense of Humor

Damn, RIP Richard Belzer/Munch. He was an absolute legend. Munch was such a great character on both SVU and Homicide, one of tv’s most memorable detectives. 
I really hope SVU pays tribute to him before the season ends. 

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wknt3

wknt3

10 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Some are saying it's a hoax but Warren Leight has also commented. I'd think he would have the means to connect with Belzer's agent and verify or debunk the news.

Not only Warren Leight, but other high ranking SVU writers and producers in addition to folks like Richard Lewis, Larraine Newamn and Jon Stewart who knew him personally. And he has serious health issues for years which has always come up when people here have asked why he wasn't guest starring more often.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

I really hope SVU pays tribute to Munch in an episode before this season ends - he was such an awesome character and a major part of the show for so many years that they need to pay tribute to him and have the characters who knew him reminisce about him. However I don’t trust the current SVU writers to do this at all, so I think they might just never mention Munch again, which would not be good given that he was such a huge part of the show for so long. 

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

John Munch and Richard Belzer gave this show a much-needed sense of levity amidst the sorrow and despair. And it was invaluable, as we now see how dreary the show has been without it.

John Munch was a quirky delight. And I will also remember his repartee with the equally late-great Jerry Orbach's Lennie Briscoe on The Mothership. I hope Orbach and Belzer meet up in the afterlife and share some more laughs.

Rest well, Richard Belzer/John Munch.

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dttruman

dttruman

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

One of my favorite scenes in the show is Munch babysitting Noah. I like to pretend he popped in to do so every so often and we just only saw it onscreen that one time. 

The two episodes that stand out to me are when he and Fin go up to Canada for a killer but have trouble with the extradition. The other one is when Jerry Lewis appears on the episode as Munch's mentally ill uncle.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

3 minutes ago, dttruman said:

The two episodes that stand out to me are when he and Fin go up to Canada for a killer but have trouble with the extradition. The other one is when Jerry Lewis appears on the episode as Munch's mentally ill uncle.

There are so many great Munch centric episodes - he played a central role in many of my favorite SVU episodes. Manhunt, the one where Munch and Fin go to Canada to track down the serial killer, is one of my all time favorites, and another all time favorite is Legacy, also from season 2, very sad episode about the abused child in a coma and the ending where Munch tells Benson about the abused child he knew growing up was really a tear jerker. Munch is known for his humor and his wisecracks but he had a lot of compassion as well.

Munch was great on Homicide as well and had some great moments there, and of course I loved his interactions with Lennie in the Homicide/L&O crossovers. Really Munch wasn’t used enough on either show, he frequently took a backseat to other characters, but he’s one of my all time favorites.

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Culture Check: How do we recognize and address victim blaming as a community? If you are unsure what victim-blaming is, please read more about it in this article. 

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