S11.E11: Into The Mystic

[The Mighty Peanut]

Something shiny must have distracted me during the fight scene because I don't remember if the banshee went for Mildred or Dean first, so can someone fill me in? If they used Mildred for bait because they thought she was the most physically vulnerable to death, and the banshee went straight to Dean...that can't be good.

Edited January 29, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[KirkB]

I also wanted to mention I thought the banshee was very well doing. It was one of the creepiest looking monsters they've had in a while.

 

As for Lucifer and his wings, the whole banished from heaven thing Metatron did made all of the angels left in heaven fall. But didn't Lucifer already fall, back in the day? Wasn't he in fact the original fallen angel? Not that it really matters in this case. Cas has his wings back. And since Luci is riding Cas he has access to those wings. I do wonder though, how good this meatsuit is in comparison to whatever he used to wear.

Edited January 29, 2016 by KirkB

[DittyDotDot]

Well, it wasn't what I expected, but it wasn't offensive and we got an old-fashioned salt 'n' burn out of it...that's something, right? I don't know, I didn't hate it, but it didn't really do anything for me either.

 

Note to Dean Winchester: bet you're wishin' you took my advice to get some football helmets. Not only could've it saved you some pain, but I'm putting the continuing secrets and lies portion of this episode down to brain damage...again.

 

This has probably been brought up on the show before and I've just missed it or forgotten, but how did the angel in the park know it was Lucifer and not Castiel? When he pulled out the knife I thought he was just planning to kill Cas and be in for a big surprise, yet it he knew it was Luci. I get that angels can probably sense one another in their meatsuits and that an archangel might be stronger than most, but how did it he knew it was this specific archangel? Though on a separate note, given that he did somehow know, what in the world made him think he could hurt him?

 

In the past, angels (and demons too) have always been able to see through the meatsuits and to see who is underneath; not just the kind of beast, but the identity of the beast too.  That's why I call bullshit on Crowley not realizing that was Lucifer in the last episode long before Lucifer outted himself. 

[DittyDotDot]

Sorry, didn't see the next page...

 

Something shiny must have distracted me during the fight scene because I don't remember if the banshee went for Mildred or Dean first, so can someone fill me in? If they used Mildred for bait because they thought she was the most physically vulnerable to death, and the banshee went straight to Dean...that can't be good.

 

It definitely went after Dean. He was the only one hearing the banshee's scream. They thought it would go after Mildred, but it didn't even seem to notice her, IMO.

Edited January 29, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Aeryn13]

Going after someone who is "vulnerable" is as nondescript as it can be. Everyone is vulnerable in some way. And if it includes both emotional and physical vulnerabilities? Sky is the limit here. 

 

In the ep the banshee obviously went after Dean so the narrative could make a point on him being affected by Amara and how much he struggles with that. And to juxtapose it with Sam beginning the ep struggling with what happened last episode but getting over it in the end to Dean ending the episode struggling with his connection to Amara.

 

IMO they kinda failed to provide a more compelling exposition for the lore in-episode. Like, say the banshee goes after people who hide or deny their vulnerabilities as much as possible. Just explain better why it by-passed Mildred and Sam. Eileen clearly had vulnerabilities too but her natural "immunity" to the banshee`s powers put her out of the running. 

[DittyDotDot]

Eileen clearly had vulnerabilities too but her natural "immunity" to the banshee`s powers put her out of the running. 

 

I'm not sure she had any natural "immunity". The banshee clearly went after her when she was a baby and she heard the banshee's scream then--She reacted before her father did--unless she went deaf later and I missed that bit of exposition. Her being deaf wouldn't mean she couldn't hear the banshee, though, deaf people hear and experience music, just differently than I would. 

 

I wonder if this episode didn't start out as something completely different?

[Aeryn13]

 

unless she went deaf later and I missed that bit of exposition

 

I thought she went deaf as a child because of the banshee`s scream? But I could be wrong. 

 

 

Her being deaf wouldn't mean she couldn't hear the banshee, though, deaf people hear and experience music, just differently than I would.

 

I know. But the show is too on the nose for that. A deaf hunter in an episode dealing with a monster that basically uses noise to kill? Yup, I think for sure she was immune and that was the point. I swear if they ever hunted something Medusa-like, a blind hunter would come in and defeat it.

 

Now the banshee also had ye olde wall-throwing powers of telekinesis and Eileen was clearly not immune to them.

[bethy]

I thought she went deaf as a child because of the banshee`s scream? But I could be wrong. 

 

That's what I thought, too.

 

I hope they go somewhere with Eileen as a "legacy." I was thinking the boys would ask her back to the bunker to show her some of her heritage or something. I liked the camaraderie they had with her, and with Mildred, for that matter. If, as end game, the Winchesters landed in some kind of supportive community of hunters, I would really like that. Whether they all end up in a retirement center together or not. 

[DittyDotDot]

I thought she went deaf as a child because of the banshee`s scream? But I could be wrong. 

 

I wasn't sure if I missed the explanation--I guess not--but I thought she was maybe born deaf. I have no idea why I had that thought; maybe it had something to do with the dad saying the music was the only thing that helped her go to sleep? I don't know.

 

Anyway, I really wonder if this episode was supposed to be something different. The synopsis saying the people died after hearing the same song coupled with the original title being "The Sound of Silence" and then how the episode just didn't feel fully formed, to me. Maybe I'm way off base, but something for me to noodle on anyway, I guess. 

[Diane]

Didn't it show her ears bleeding in the crib?  Maybe I am miss remembering it, but I thought they were.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Diane

[Omegamom]

In the flashback scene, later in the episode, they clearly have her hearing things, then as the banshee goes after her mom, suddenly everything goes silent.

[NoWillToResist]

Shoshannah Stern is deaf IRL - if you want to see her being snarky and competent on an older show (Bonnie threw some EPIC shade at Mimi for sure), watch Jericho (I believe it's on Netflix).  

 

Thank you! I saw a clip of one of her scenes with Sam and I knew I recognized her! I loved her in Jericho and she sounds like she was kickass here. Jesus, between this and the promo clip of Dean and Mildred, I may actually watch an episode of SPN!!! ;D

[catrox14]

 

As for Lucifer and his wings, the whole banished from heaven thing Metatron did made all of the angels left in heaven fall. But didn't Lucifer already fall, back in the day? Wasn't he in fact the original fallen angel? Not that it really matters in this case. Cas has his wings back. And since Luci is riding Cas he has access to those wings. I do wonder though, how good this meatsuit is in comparison to whatever he used to wear.

 

 

IMO it's working this way:

 

I think wings and grace function separately and together. Grace allows angels to live and to heal and kill if they want. Undamaged wings allow them to teleport/fly.

 

Since it was a spell from Metatron that caused them to fall, Gadreel and the other angels all had their grace when they fell but their wings were burned so they could heal or kill but still not fly /teleport. Once Cas got his grace back his wings were still damaged but he can heal/kill but not fly/teleprot.

 

IMO, Lucifer never lost his wings or his grace when he was banished by God into the Hell which is why he could teleport himself all over Earth in s5.  Since Lucifer and Michael still had their wings and their grace when they fell into the Cage, IMO they were immune to Metatron's spell, so they both still have their grace and wings fully intact which is why I think Lucifer can teleport Cas wherever he wants.

 

That's why I want to know if he drove back to the Bunker or teleported. Like I said before, Dean wouldn't have been surprised that Cas was in the bunker if Dean had seen his car either in front or in the garage. If the car is neither place, then Lucifer teleported him and Cas back to the bunker and that should be the real clue that Dean thinks logically about.

 

I think Jensen played this very smartly with Dean looking at his left shoulder as he felt Cas touch him with his back turned but then when he turned around Dean and realized it wasn't in that same familiar spot, he kind of side-eyed Cas but I think because Dean was frustrated and angry with Cas about the bunker being a mess and with not hearing from him in days and  being freaked about Amara's hold on him, it didn't FULLY register but he does think something is off. I also think Dean was sizing him up as to why he didn't have on his trenchcoat which he next to never takes off.

 

Another thought I had is that since apparently he still has a connection with Amara because of the Mark, maybe being touched by Lucifer who also bore the Mark on the arm that had the Mark is what Dean was side-eying. Maybe Dean didn't totally freak out about Cas touching the wrong shoulder because of the familiarity/connected feeling from the Mark.

Edited January 29, 2016 by catrox14

[The Mighty Peanut]

IMO they kinda failed to provide a more compelling exposition for the lore in-episode. Like, say the banshee goes after people who hide or deny their vulnerabilities as much as possible. Just explain better why it by-passed Mildred and Sam. Eileen clearly had vulnerabilities too but her natural "immunity" to the banshee`s powers put her out of the running. 

 

I don't disagree that vulnerability to the banshee is nondescript and could refer to physical as well as emotional factors. It's especially murky if the banshee killed Eileen's parents (presumably two healthy young adults) but merely caused deafness in a tiny baby, and I think you're right it's probably for narrative purposes that it went right for Dean. The only issue I have is that the banshee, at this time, had targeted a nursing home where she was jump starting, for lack of a better word, the deaths of elderly people with serious but not necessarily terminal conditions like Mildred had. If the scream can kill anyone, why pick on old people? I mean...does she stress her vocal chords less if her victims have a heart attack before their ears explode? Is she just lazy?

 

I LOL'd when Sam out of nowhere busted out Mildred's confidential medical records like "yeah I was just reading about your heart condition". I guess when you're a hunter it's HIPPA shmippa (ETA: I realize he stole them, I just thought it was funny). 

Edited January 29, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Omegamom]

Oh, I figured he stole them...

[MysteryGuest]

Eileen definitely went deaf during the attack by the banshee.  Her ears were bleeding, and they showed her "hearing" perfectly fine at first, and then things going silent for her.  I think it was her mother's attack on the banshee that saved Eileen from being killed along with her parents.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Ask Supernatural's Brain-Eating Banshee
Before she makes you bash your head in. The Winchesters just have allll the lady problems this season, no?

[SueB]

I don't disagree that vulnerability to the banshee is nondescript and could refer to physical as well as emotional factors. It's especially murky if the banshee killed Eileen's parents (presumably two healthy young adults) but merely caused deafness in a tiny baby, and I think you're right it's probably for narrative purposes that it went right for Dean.

 

It went after the Dad first.  And the Mom had said something along the lines of "It's good to see you smiling mo chuisle* * So the implications were that there was something emotionally wrong with him before the Banshee attacked. Which leads me to suspect that emotional damage is more attractive to the Banshee than physical.  We got the heartbroken administrator over people in wheelchairs.  And Harold may have been feeling guilty over taking Jack's checks and then Jack dying.  Which leads us to the notion that of all the people at the retirement home, Dean was the most emotionally disturbed.  That works for me... Dean has good reason to be pretty disturbed these days.  Or, again, it could be an Amara connection thing that made him stand out. 

 

*Irish term of endearment

[millennium]

I want Castiel to die.

[mertensia]

I enjoyed the episode ; it's always nice to see Dee Wallace as well.

Thanks to the poster upthread who ID'd where I'd seen Shoshannah Stern before. I knew the name was familiar! Stanley's sister!

Banshees are just creepy. And noisy. But mostly creepy.

Yeah Dean's bashing his head was one of the more disturbing things I've seen on the show.

Reason # whatever why Dean is not like Michael: he doesn't hold grudges forever and aye. I bet Michael and Lucifer can bore you to death with remembered slights from 6 billion years ago.

[rue721]

I really liked this episode. The rhythm felt right somehow. It wasn't all that intense and didn't have any showstopping scenes, but at the same time, I enjoyed it from beginning to end. It also felt very "Supernatural" to me, in that all the things I liked most about it are the things that have always been SPN's strengths:  the guys are so likeable (and cute), the show's world is so classically American, the monsters are genuinely creepy (and familiar), and there are real consequences to the characters (and PiPs) when things go wrong, but everyone manages to stay calm and resourceful anyway.

 

I also liked the literal look of the episode -- the colors didn't seem desaturated per se, but there was a sort of toned-down, naturalistic look to everything, and the lighting was low in a whole lot of the scenes. The music was also pretty good. That song for the coda was an amazing choice. I agree with everyone that it was hauntingly bleak.

 

The side characters were one of the best things about the episode imo. I loved that they were unique and interesting -- and likeable. There were a lot of nice touches, like how the heartbroken manager was babbling on about his wife's emoji breakup note, and how he'd been an idiot not to text her a heart emoji back. And the group effort to take down the banchee was awesome. I liked that they took the time to think out their plan, and cooperated so well as a team. That's something that Sam and Dean had a much harder time doing early in the series, and I love seeing understated, organic character growth like that.

 

Mildred in particular was pretty cool. The mountainclimber thing was hilarious. I especially liked that long talk she had about the sunset. She seemed like a really thoughtful, empathetic person. Dean could definitely do worse.

 

I concur with everyone that the banshee was scary as hell. This season has been really bringing the scary MotW, hasn't it? Although the papier mache clown that Sam got stuck in the elevator with still takes the cake for creepiest MotW for the season so far imo.

 

I hope they do eventually ends up in a retirement center somewhere. Glad Sam kept the brochure.

 

I didn't really understand where the show was going with all the retirement home love. I mean, it DID seem like a nice place. But the guys are in their 30s. They've got a couple decades before they're even allowed to live in one.

 

Is this yet another "Dean is burnt out" message? Even though he actually seems less burnt out than he did a season or two ago?

 

Yikes , should we be concerned for Dean now??!

All these anvillicious talks about retiring and following your heart and Lucifers talk to Sam about seeing loved ones die and apparently he's "vulnerable"

 

I think we should definitely be concerned for Dean. That seemed to be the point of the BM and the coda of this episode.

 

Dean seems like he's pretty concerned for himself! He was really troubled at the end.

 

I liked Eileen. I liked the way Sam and Eileen interacted. I thought it was interesting that the banshee's scream was what made her deaf. I liked the back story.him.

 

I loved how Sam and Eileen interacted, too. They seemed really natural hanging out together. I didn't really get much of a romantic vibe, but I do hope that we see Eileen again.

 

Also, who actually gets into bed this way? I mean I usually sit crossed legged in bed for a bit before snuggling down in the sheets. Why am I even thinking about this?? LOL.

 

 

LOL this got me really curious about whether he's getting into bed funny. It looked normal to me at first glance!

 

So I tested it out by trying to get into bed a few times. You're right, catrox. I don't get into bed this way, either. I usually kind of fold my left leg under me and flop onto the bed on top of it (sitting), then swing my right leg across myself and slide it under the covers, before laying down completely and snuggling in.

 

That's hilarious. I had no idea that there were idiosyncratic ways of getting under the covers. What profession requires that level of attention to detail, catrox?! It's amazing. I feel like you should be a cop or something.

 

Well, it wasn't what I expected, but it wasn't offensive and we got an old-fashioned salt 'n' burn out of it...

 

I knew you would love the salt'n'burn, DDD!

 

Which leads me to suspect that emotional damage is more attractive to the Banshee than physical.

 

Convincing theory, SueB.

[SueB]

True fact: I got into bed last night and thought 'well I guess I get into bed like Dean'. Because apparently that's how I roll. Key point: tha'd my 'in a hotel ' style. At home I have a big four poster high off the ground. There I crawl into the bed like a little kid.

Catrix, what have you done to us!? Now I'm taking note of the way I get into bed?

[catrox14]

That's hilarious. I had no idea that there were idiosyncratic ways of getting under the covers. What profession requires that level of attention to detail, catrox?! It's amazing. I feel like you should be a cop or something.

HA, I am currently job hunting. My line of work is software support and troubleshooting and training. Maybe that's where the attention to detail comes from. But in the case of Dean getting into bed I was fascinated by the glimpse of his feet because I can't remember ever seeing his feet that clearly before. Not that up close. No I really do not have a foot fetish. It just struck me really odd. IDEK..

Edited January 30, 2016 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

I do wonder whether all of the "old man" references were just attempts at humor, or not so subtle signs of what's to come.  I mean the reality is that both Dean and Sam are still young men, even for hunters.  Most of the hunters they've known were substantially older than they are now.  I get that it's a tough life, and it's taken its toll on both of them, but they are far from retirement age.  Retirement from the life...maybe, but I don't see that happening as much as they both probably secretly long for it.

 

So was this a one off where they just liked the idea of getting to that point in their lives (actually living long enough to even consider it), or was there a deeper meaning.  Thoughts?

[catrox14]

Considering how meta the show goes fairly often  I think it's all subtle foreshadowing the end is coming. I think it's going to be as hard for the cast and crew to let go and IMO they really do love their fans and don't want to really hurt the fanbase by ending the series. It may not be a death knell for this season but I'm thinking it only goes at most 2 more seasons. 

 

I dunno JMO

[SueB]

I rewatched the episode on the plane today and I had a bit of a realization -- Dean was bugged by Amara before, but I don't think he put the "something is wrong with ME' label on himself until after the Banshee attack. Maybe denial, maybe just thinking that Amara's fascination with him was unusual but his inability to hurt her was due to her influence and nothing else.

Now the Banshee comes after HIM and I think he's unable to rationalize that it's not about him personally. It's not that he didn't get that some "connection" existed. I think he did. But there's a reason they kept using the word "vulnerability". I think he's reflected back on their interactions and it's become much more clear to him that he personally has an issue that is making him vulnerable. Perhaps everyone else already got this point but it took me a while to figure out why Dean was in such a state of dread. I think the happiness that came with getting rid of the Mark (despite the consequences) is gone now and he realizes he's still got that albatross hanging around his neck -- just in a different version. I saw elsewhere that his reluctance to tell Sammy was because he didn't want Sam to think there is anything wrong with him. I get that. I just don't know if Dean has admitted to himself (until this episode) that there IS anything wrong with him. Now, OTOH, he's fully aware.

How I wish real Cas was around so he could talk it over with him. Oh wait, that's WHY real Cas isn't around. Doh.

[catrox14]

I'm starting to have a bit of a different take on Dean's vulnerability.  I think Amara is the easy answer. But I can't help but think it's really Sam.  To me that fits with how the season has been about not saving each other, back to Sam saying that can't keep saving each other and also ties back to Dean first talking about weak spots for each other in No Rest for the Wicked (which kind of chaps my hide that they had Sam make the basic same speech Dean did right before he went to Hell as though bah...whatever)

 

DEAN:  We are not gonna make the same mistake all over again.

SAM: You said that but what does it even mean?

DEAN: Don't you see a pattern here? Dad's deal, my deal, now this? I mean every time one of us is – is – is up the creek the other is begging to sell their soul. That's all this is, man. Ruby's just jerking your chain down the road. You know what it's paved with and you know where it's going.

SAM: Dean.

He sits down next to DEAN, looking at him as he continues to assemble the weapon.

SAM: What do you think is gonna happen? This is me, I can handle it.

DEAN stops what he's doing, looking at the floor and shakes his head.

SAM: And if it'll save you...

DEAN:Why even risk it?

SAM: Because you're my brother. Because you did the same thing for me.

DEAN: (scoffs)I know... and look how that turned out.

DEAN looks at SAM and SAM looks away at this.

DEAN: All I'm saying..Sammy, all I'm saying is that you're my weak spot.

SAM looks over at him at this.

DEAN: (quick confirmation smile) You are. And I'm yours.

SAM: (choked)You don't mean that. We're… we're family.

DEAN: I know. And those evil sons of bitches know it too. I mean, what we'll do for each other, you know, how far we'll go? They're using it against us.

SAM: So what? We just stop looking out for each other?

DEAN:No, we stop being martyrs, man. We – we – we stop spreading it for these demons.

He picks up Ruby's knife and holds it up.

DEAN: We take this knife, and we go after Lilith our way. The way Dad taught us to. And if we go down, then, uh... then we go down swinging.

 

That's not really ever changed. I think his attraction for Amara frightens him but I think Sam is his vulnerability.  If Amara goes after Sam, IMO that's when Dean will be the most vulnerable to her powers. 

 

Will Dean allow her to have her way with him, for whatever reasons, if Sam's well-being is at stake? But at the same time, Sam seems to be the thing that snaps him out of it, up until Dean couldn't answer Sam's call in 11.09.  I have to think that Amara will have to target Sam at some point to make her threat and need to control Dean a far more real threat, which makes me wonder why she hasn't done that yet.

Edited January 30, 2016 by catrox14

[Bessie]

The fact that he wants to keep his connection to Amara a secret from Sam indicates to me that he knew it was a problem directly involving him before the banshee came along. Although it's possible that the banshee encounter strongly reinforced that. I also think the fact that Dean is keeping it from Sam adds to his vulnerability.

[bethy]

We've done the two of them being each other's weakness for 11 seasons. You know what would be a twist? For them to see each other - their family - as each other's strength. I'm so sick of this narrative that their love for each other, their bond, makes them less.

[Aeryn13]

 

I'm starting to have a bit of a different take on Dean's vulnerability.  I think Amara is the easy answer. But I can't help but think it's really Sam.

 

To me, the episode was pretty on the nose that it was Amara. What freaked Dean out maybe the most was Mildred innocently commenting on him "pining". She meant it in a nice way because she doesn`t have the context, i.e. it`s not romantic. But for Dean it brought home how easily this can be detected even by strangers. It`s a connection he does not want to have but he can`t help himself. And now apparently he is "broadcasting" it, too. 

 

The closest he came to admitting it is his talk with Cas. Who unfortunately isn`t Cas right now but Lucifer. And the only thing Lucifer took from that talk was "splendid, Dean can be useful bait now". Which means he will encourage that connection and exploring it since it is in his interests. It is not the advice or support Dean needs but "Cas" phrased it as a strategic point which can`t really be argued.

 

I hope the connection between Dean and Amara gets further explored and explained a bit more. And that it is kept firmly about Dean. I really have no desire to have her focus on Sam all of a sudden. Not even as leverage. 

[catrox14]

We've done the two of them being each other's weakness for 11 seasons. You know what would be a twist? For them to see each other - their family - as each other's strength. I'm so sick of this narrative that their love for each other, their bond, makes them less.

 

I'd be surprised to have them do that when the premise has been how much they've ruined the world by choosing each other. But you never know with this current regime.

[FlickChick]

I think that if we ever see the boys really believing that together they have more strength and choose the world over saving each other, it will be the end and Bon Jovi or no, they will go out in a blaze of glory. I have always believed that was Kripke's finale and it still may be the way this show ends.

[Aeryn13]

 

I'm so sick of this narrative that their love for each other, their bond, makes them less.

 

It has made them less in recent years. Their choices for Seasons now have been ill-advised to say the least. And it wasn`t like that when the show started. They would save civilians over each other and put those lives as a priority, allthewhile still being protective of each other. The codependency wasn`t nearly as profound as it is now.

 

I believe this is basically a Carver problem. He seems to hate the codependency so puts in narrative lessons how toxic it is but also doesn`t have the balls to go through with it. "Oh noez, so many people love when they let the world burn for each other, better put that in, even after I`ve put in dialogue how much that sucks". Well, either grow a pair or don`t but stop being so wishy-washy, dude. 

 

Not to mention his first attempt at breaking it was ridiculously stupid. It is not a sign of horrible codependeny to search for a loved one when they go missing. That is something normal, loving people do. So to put that down as "maturity" was dumping the baby out with the bathwater. Now, with this episode, he has fully backtracked on it.   

[MysteryGuest]

I'm torn because it's that brother bond that appealed to me from the very start.  Initially, I didn't think at all that this would be a show I would be interested in.  I watched it as a nice gesture to my niece, who was obsessed, but really found myself drawn in by the "us against the world" mentality.  The problem, of course, is that it is that very relationship that has brought the world to it's knees every time.  I really wish that for once, their devotion to each other would actually get them a win, instead of just bringing on the next world-ending disaster.  I think that's how I'd like the story to end.  I'm really not interested in some Butch and Sundance redo.  Yes, I am a sap, and I want my happy ending.  They deserve it!

[rue721]

By the way, when Sam said he wanted to pack up and "go home," it sort of shocked me. Dean didn't really react or anything, and maybe Sam talks like that all the time and I just haven't noticed. But I just found it interesting, especially in light of how much Dean liked the retirement home (since it seemed to me that he was always more gung-ho about the bunker than Sam was).

 

The bunker used to represent a version of settling down (and peace and safety), but maybe now it's just a home base for their hunting, and it's not symbolic in the same way anymore? Or maybe it is to Sam (who is apparently now calling it "home," and who seemed relatively peaceful and "at home" in the coda), but not to Dean. Or maybe I'm overthinking it :P.

[Omegamom]

I thought Sam calling it "home" was a really big step. For a long time, it was just a temporary thing for him.

[catrox14]

I feel like Sam calling it "home" is foreshadowing it's inevitable destruction, because they don't get to have nice things for very long

[AwesomO4000]

Ouch. You're probably right, catrox.

[SueB]

I feel like Sam calling it "home" is foreshadowing it's inevitable destruction, because they don't get to have nice things for very long

Can I send you to the corner for putting that thought out in the universe????? Argggggg. I mean, it's not an unreasonable speculation but......Arggggg.

[FlickChick]

I'm with you, SueB! Fifty lashes with a wet noodle for catrox for putting that out there.

[DittyDotDot]

Eh, I wouldn't miss the lair myself. If nothing else it would shake things up a bit and force the show to get more creative on where they get their lore and where they do most of their sit and/or stand n' chats. IMO, it's been more of a pit for laziness than anything for some time now.

 

Note of apology to Jerry Wanek: That set is beautiful. You and your merry band of artists really outdid yourselves...what else you guys have up your sleeves?

[catrox14]

I'm with you, SueB! Fifty lashes with a wet noodle for catrox for putting that out there.

 

So long as the lashes are delivered by Dean :).

[AwesomO4000]

So long as the lashes are delivered by Dean :).

 

Or maybe Demon Dean? ; )

[catrox14]

Or maybe Demon Dean? ; )

 

 

 

 

....

You make a compelling argument, AWESOME

Edited February 1, 2016 by catrox14

[dragonsbite]

....

You make a compelling argument, AWESOME

 

I volunteer as tribute!  

 

 

 

ETA: Removed the gifs

Edited February 1, 2016 by dragonsbite

[Myrelle]

Much better than last week`s crapfest.

 

I was pleasantly surprised that they managed to make the Golden Girls thing charming. Compare this episode with the old lady in the ghost ship episode and the differences are stark. Dee Wallace delivered a strong performance here and her chemistry with Jensen was sweet.

 

The deaf hunter was nice. Though, while it was an asset in this particular hunt not being able to hear, it would otherwise prove very dangerous. Unless she primarily hunts banshees.

 

Also liked Misha`s more toned-down version of Casifer. He was shifty here and there but never so unconvincing as Cas that I didn`t buy Dean not catching on right away. He did notice something was wrong and that is a believable reaction for now.

 

Casifer actually wanting to go after Amara surprises me but then he can`t rule if she is around. Dean just came into his orbit in his plans. I like that, it ties Dean more to the story. Whatever Lucifer is planning, it will not (fully) come into fruition.

 

And since the question of Dean being helpless to Amara is hammered on so much, he should surprise himself in the end. I would say he is way too hard on himself because "I struck out twice"? No you didn`t, that little knife was never a means to kill Amara and you proved  it by using it on her. So far, Dean doesn`t have the means to defeat her, it had nothing to do with their "bond" really. The "tell" of the show is obviously another but they have not shown me what they mean to sell me.

 

She affects Dean and he does her but suddenly they make it sound as if Dean is marching along a street with a blank look in his eyes, intoning "Imhotep...uh, sorry Amara...Amara" but that is more than hyperbolic.

 

I, too, got some strange meta-retirement-vibe from the ep. Guess we`ll see.

 

My first episode back from the hiatus and yes, from what I've read, this one was much better for Dean in the myth-arc than the Lucifer fest of last week.

 

IA with pretty much everything Aeryn said here. I'm having trouble with the Casifer sl because I despise the Lucifer sl because all it does is remind me that we've never seen MichaelDean and even though it could have been worse in that they could have given us MichaelCas or MichaelSam as these writers seem allergic to giving the Dean fandom even a glimpse of MichaelDean. If the Darkness sl ends with Michael remaining a gibbering mess in the cage or escaping only to settle for a lesser vessel than his OTV, we will  know that there is some kind of mandate BTS that says Jensen Ackles must never get to play that role for...reasons-whatever they might be and of which I cannot even begin to imagine the why of-probably the same reasons that keep Sam from uttering the simple words "I'm sorry.", I suppose. Instead we get "I've never been able to forgive myself." which had me laughing because if Lucifer hadn't hit him over the head with it in the last episode, I'm pretty sure that it would have become a hazy memory that was hardly worth mentioning-such as how he treated Dean after Dean had returned from Hell and Purgatory and those pesky Sacrifice and Purge speeches also. But then again, what he said to the huntergirl was probably supposed to cover all those things-that Dean had always had his back, even when Sam had let him down.

 

Bah. Too little(MUCH! too little), too late( and MUCH! too late) for me. But I'm sure it will suffice for some in the fandom just as it apparently more than sufficed for Dean-something the writers know very well. And round and round we go. Whatever, writers(and some wonder why the supposedly "loving" brotherly bond has lost it luster entirely for no few in the Dean fandom).

 

As for the episode itself, I love Dee Wallace. She always conveys such warmth and brightness and vibrancy as an actress. Her chemistry with JA was a thing of beauty in this one as I feel that they are very similar actors in that respect. But Dean's road is turning dark now that Sam's issues seem to finally be resolved(at least for the present). That last scene was very haunting IMO also, and as someone else up thread, described it. 

 

I also felt a strange type of feeling of impending loss of either Dean or Jensen in this episode. I felt a similar feeling back in S3 in that last scene from Fresh Blood, but this time there was a more meta-feeling attached. Either way, I think that we are somehow going to lose Dean at the end of this season. Hopefully, he will get his own BDH moment in the process as we know that he feels just as responsible for everything that's happened concerning The Darkness as Sam does-and perhaps even more, considering that it's Dean we're talking about here.

 

I liked the MOTW very much. FINALLY! they gave us banshees-or at least a variation of them. And I liked that they let us know that it  was, indeed, a variation.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Myrelle

[SueB]

...reasons-whatever they might be and of which I cannot even begin to imagine the why of-probably the same reasons that keep Sam from uttering the simple words "I'm sorry.", I suppose. Instead we get "I've never been able to forgive myself." which had me laughing because if Lucifer hadn't hit him over the head with it in the last episode, I'm pretty sure that it would have become a hazy memory that was hardly worth mentioning-such as how he treated Dean after Dean had returned from Hell and Purgatory and those pesky Sacrifice and Purge speeches also. But then again, what he said to the huntergirl was probably supposed to cover all those things-that Dean had always had his back, even when Sam had let him down.

Bah. Too little(MUCH! too little), too late( and MUCH! too late) for me. But I'm sure it will suffice for the masses in the fandom just as it apparently more than sufficed for Dean-something the writers know very well. And round and round we go. Whatever, writers(and some wonder why the supposedly "loving" brotherly bond has lost it luster .

I think, for me at least, the dialog 'I'm sorry' is both boring and inadequate. It's a cliche but many folks will say something to that effect (that I'm sorry is inadequate) before issuing an apology. In the script business, I have no problem with them going straight to the rest of the apology.

I compare Sam's apology with what Dean stumbled thru (regarding Gadreel) at the end of Sharp Teeth and I gotta say, Sam's was better. Now, I agree 'I lied' is a sucky apology in Do you believe in miracles, but as I understand it, the whole exchange was wordy and they cut it down.

These two don't NEED lengthy apologies. They don't LIKE to talk about it. So, I my opinion, what Sam said (which he has to force Dean to let him say) was pretty darn good.

 

ETA: When I type stuff on my iPhone... it's like a demonic autocorrect comes in and completely messes shit up.  I may have to salt and burn my phone.

Edited February 1, 2016 by SueB

[Myrelle]

I was thrilled with Dean's "apology" in Sharp Teeth-especially because I didn't think that any Dean apology was really that necessary, under those circumstances, and no more necessary than any of Sam's quasi, pseudo, or  non-apologies were when he was under a supernatural influence. My feeling after s5 is that if they're going to be allergic to writing those two little words, than let it stand for both brothers-otherwise, it just seems to me as if one grovels, while the other skates-which it was fast sliding into, post S5, IMO. 

 

As I said-whatever. It's over and done with until the next time they come up with something contrived to divide the brothers and the fandom again. JMO. The brother stuff no longer interests me except in how it might affect Dean being able and allowed by the writers to remain at the center of the myth-arc.

 

If it's one thing I've seen in these latter seasons, it's that everyone in this fandom watches the show for different reasons and the days of it predominantly being  because of the brothers being nothing less than joined at the hip forever and ever, and no matter what, is a myth that the writers(and even the actors, tbh) are still trying to push in spite of substantial evidence to the contrary within the larger social media outlets that they seem so hell bent on pleasing and writing to and for. Again JMO. I'm aware that most here, at this site and some others, love the brothers being joined at the hip. And that's what makes this an unpopular opinion here, but it's not that way everywhere.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Myrelle

[catrox14]

I don't see how adding "I'm sorry" to "I should have and I never forgave myself for not" makes it less sincere or overly lengthy.

 

Dean, who is supposedly so unable to express his true emotions, has said "I'm sorry" MANY times to the people he's hurt or couldn't help. Sam himself has said "I'm sorry" on occasion.  Does this mean those occasions were less meaningful or insincere? 

 

Maybe Sam didn't say "I'm sorry" because he wasn't really sorry for finding a life. He regretted not looking for Dean and felt guilty for that but I don't think he was sorry for trying to find a normal life.  An "I'm sorry that I hurt you by not looking for you" might have been nice and would have made it about Dean and not Sam's guilt. 

 

To me it was similar to Dean not actually saying "I'm sorry" in s9 because he was NOT sorry for Saving Sam's life. He was sorry that his actions resulted in Kevin's death, but I don't think he'll ever truly be sorry for Saving Sammy and Sam will never be sorry for trying to build himself a life away from hunting at some point and both are in character reasons for not saying "I'm sorry" in those particular cases.

 

But it's confusing because I really don't trust that Sam is once again listening to Lucifer about ANYTHING, right or wrong. I find it hard to believe the show wants us to side with Lucifer against Sam ...at all.   I just don't know how to feel and what to think about that "apology".  I feel like it's part of Lucifer's longer game to fuck with Sam again at some point.

Edited February 1, 2016 by catrox14

[Myrelle]

An "I'm sorry that I hurt you by not looking for you" might have been nice and would have made it about Dean and not Sam's guilt.

 

 

This. Exactly.

They did the same exact thing with the pseudo Sam apology in Sacrifice with the added bonus of his again blaming Dean, in part, as he did in Fallen Idols.

I mean it's one thing if they actually want us to see Sam as being that self-involved and self-centered that he can't just simply apologize to his brother for anything w/o somehow making it about himself too, but I honestly do not think that that is what they're shooting for.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Myrelle