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Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion: How's Your Head?

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

I do agree with you about Irving still having the option to kill someone so they can take his place ... I do wonder how that is going to play out... 

 

We will see, I guess...

I noticed that on last night's show they showed a flashback with Irving signing away his soul in blood and Henry saying Irving could kill someone to get his soul back so they're REALLY hammering that point home. 

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The Cake is a Pie
The Cake is a Pie

I'm an optimist. Why not a Henry-Katrina murder-suicide?

DJG1122
DJG1122

Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie?

catrox14
catrox14

I do not care about Hawley past. I care about Ichabod and Abbie being witnesses. This is why the order of 18 episodes is problematic for the show. Because this is a filler. And I am becoming increasin

DearEvette

DearEvette

(edited)
The White Horse

I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come and see!” I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. (Revelation 6:1-2)

 

Other places I've seen the Horseman on the White Horse is called Pestilence.  This is the one I was thinking of for Katrina

In some places Pestilence is also called Conquest.  And we have already seen a glimpse of him/her  in the John Doe episode.

 

I also think The White Horse would be a good fit for her because some interpretations also try to make this one more righteous than the others. that would seem to fit with what the writers are trying to do with Katrina. She can be Good or Evil.  Depending on your interpretations of her motives.

Edited by DearEvette
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phoenics

phoenics

We saw the Horseman of Conquest in the Middle English secret village episode though they referred to it as Pestilence.

 

Or what DearEvette Said!

 

We did - but he has no form in this world yet.  I think Pestilence/Conquest has to have a human body to exist in this world - I think.  I think like with War and Death - I think that Conquest and Famine need a human host to exist on this plane.

 

Now - if Conquest is equivalent to the Anti-Christ - then I wonder if fast growing Moloch will be that?

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

I don't think they understand what we've been waiting for, lol.

 

The death of Katrina? No?  Ichabod and Abbie in bed together? Not yet? The plot lines to make sense? What about Abbie losing her shit and finally yelling at Ichabod? Pleasekthx? Jenny being an actual witch? Yes! Actual answers to the zillion questions I have had since day 1? Hee.

 

This better be good....it's sad that last year I would have been crazy excited about this. This year, I bet the writer's think we've been waiting for Katrina's magic to get strong, that Katrina reunites with Ichabod and Henry to be redeemed by 'a mother's love.' Boring (to me.)

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cynic

cynic

I don't think they understand what we've been waiting for, lol.

This. This so much.

Neil Jackson was on Afterbuzz (search youtube for Sleepy Hollow Afterbuzz) for the Deliverance episode. He was directly asked about the sidelining this season of Abbie and the #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter thing. He said there were a lot of changes this year including less focus on Ichabod's past and fewer flashbacks for him which he knew the viewers missed, but there would be more of that coming up soon and there would be "some cool stuff for Abbie too". Believe me when I tell you that the answer did not inspire a lot of confidence in Abbie's future treatment on the show. I just thought it was weird that he focused more on Crane in his answer when he was asks about Abbie.

In contrast, he was then asked about Katrina and the interviewer even mentioned that she was not being written how some viewers would like. He talked quite a bit about how Katia was bored last year with her character and how much happier she is now. He said that her powers had been weakened and that they were developing. He went on to talk about how she was changing into a "badass femme fatale" and how we would see that reflected in her wardrobe changes.

Yeah, going by this, I don't think the show knows what mist of us viewers want at all.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

He talked quite a bit about how Katia was bored last year with her character and how much happier she is now.

 

Well, how bored do you think she will be when the show gets cancelled due to low ratings, all due to the excessive focus on Katrina and the CFD?

 

Apparently in that same podcast, Jackson said that Winter was happy with her storyline?? Dafuq? That makes me seriously side-eye her, though maybe its more about actually doing something, not the storyline herself. This is why I didn't listen to the podcast - I would get too depressed and angry.

 

Well, we know two things for sure - Katrina and Henry survive the mid-season finale (too bad). There are behind the scenes pics of both of them, filming episodes after 2.11. Dammit.

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phoenics

phoenics

Well, how bored do you think she will be when the show gets cancelled due to low ratings, all due to the excessive focus on Katrina and the CFD?

 

Apparently in that same podcast, Jackson said that Winter was happy with her storyline?? Dafuq? That makes me seriously side-eye her, though maybe its more about actually doing something, not the storyline herself. This is why I didn't listen to the podcast - I would get too depressed and angry.

 

Well, we know two things for sure - Katrina and Henry survive the mid-season finale (too bad). There are behind the scenes pics of both of them, filming episodes after 2.11. Dammit.

I didn't think they would kill them off mid-season - IF that happens it would be a season finale... but I'm losing hope that they will actually kill Katrina or Henry off. And actually - Henry I'm okay with as long as they stop with the redemption mess - either that or just make him evil, but separate Jeremy from him and then kill off Jeremy along with Katrina.

For some reason I don't see that happening...

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DearEvette

DearEvette

A little spoilery snippet from TVline about new recurring character Orion played by Max Brown:

 

A charismatic soldier named Orion will develop a strong connection with Abbie.  Orion, who’ll make his appearance after the winter break, may just prove himself a gift from the heavens for Abbie. “She sees in him someone who is actually completely living for what they believe, and finds that really inspiring and maybe even decides to sort of follow him in that,” Nicole Beharie tells TVLine. No word on what Ichabod will think of that…
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RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

(edited)

A little spoilery snippet from TVline about new recurring character Orion played by Max Brown:

My suspicion (or at least hope) is that "Orion" is either a resurrected Major John Andre who IRL stole some valuable items from Ben Franklin's home in Philadelphia--or a descendant of his. I like the idea of a charismatic British guy (who may be a double agent) as a foil for Ichabod with Abbie. 

 

The celestial thing would be interesting as well, though. Sounds like a promising character in any event.

Edited by RiddleyWalker
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phoenics

phoenics

(edited)

A little spoilery snippet from TVline about new recurring character Orion played by Max Brown:

 

I saw this last night and thought that he's probably an Angel - and someone Abbie looks up to?

 

Or he could be a love interest - although how on Earth could Abbie possibly be involved with an angel?

 

The other idea is that he's another Leo like from Charmed... a white-lighter like character... 

 

I looked him up - he's ... hot.  Very, VERY good looking.  Ichabod who?  Please let him keep his hair short though - no more wigs...

 

Here is the problem the show could face if they decide to go for a romance with this guy and Abbie and he has chemistry with Abbie that is remotely like her chemistry with Ichabod - Ichatrina will absolutely PALE in comparison - It already pales in comparison to Ichabbie - but if Abrion (heh) has chemistry legs at all - the show would be smarter to go for a triange with Orion/Abbie/Ichabod - if that time ever came... It's far more compelling than anything else I've seen... 

 

I can't get over how hot he is.

 

I do think this means Matt Barr isn't long for this show... too bad - I wouldn't have minded a triangle with him, Jenny and Irving... but the show is crowded enough as it is... I'm sorry to see him end up axed when it really should be Katrina instead.

Edited by phoenics
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

I love her. I love THEM, together, why can't we just have that/this?!

 

Yeah, I really like that picture but I'm bitter now. It's just shipper bait, designed to pull suckers like me in. I'm sure the moment will be ruined when Crane mentions Katrina for the millionth time. "Katrina and I used to ride small horses that resembled this machine... blah blah boring blah."

 

On that note, how on earth are Mison's feet NOT touching the ground. Also, he's going to hold onto Abbie for support? As awesome as that is, he's huge compared to her - one sharp turn and he'll pull tiny Abbie OFF the bike! And if the positions were to be reversed, you wouldn't be able to SEE her behind him!! Ha!

 

Apparently this pops up in episode 11. And for those looking forward to karaoke - episode 14.

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

I don't know...I've been in very few fandoms where TPTB engaged in blatant shipper-bating only to go "Gotcha!" at the end. I still remember the endless angsty posts that were written about GSR (Gil Grissom/Sara Sidle) before Season 6's finale; people saw so many red herrings (Catherine, Sofia...funny how the red herring's always a woman), and got so discouraged in six years, scarcely daring to believe that a show with so many breadcrumbs was actually going to lead somewhere.

So I get it, I truly do. And I'm not saying it's a done deal. But after all the stories I've read and watched over a lifetime, this show absolutely reeks of setting up Ichabbie in a slow-burn romance while setting up Ichatrina at the beginning for it to take a fatal flaw later. All show runners are Lying Liars Who Lie; I don't pay attention to them. The story is where the truth lies. And in my judgment, this show is currently screaming "Ichabbie is end game!" at the top of its lungs. It's the breadcrumb approach and it takes time, though.

That's not to say, though, that the narrative might not change later. All things are possible. But from what I'm seeing it's not a concern right now.

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savinggrace

savinggrace

The synopsis of the finale is a bit too heavy on Katrina for my liking. The promo pics are making me think they are going to suddenly ret-con her into some fierce warrior. She'd better not overshadow the workhorses -- Abby, Crane, Jenny -- or I'm going to be annoyed.

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phoenics

phoenics

(edited)

sleepy-hollow-fall-finale.jpg?w=414

'Nuff said.

Oooh shipper bait!

Not. falling. for -- ooh look how cute Nicole looks!

The synopsis of the finale is a bit too heavy on Katrina for my liking. The promo pics are making me think they are going to suddenly ret-con her into some fierce warrior. She'd better not overshadow the workhorses -- Abby, Crane, Jenny -- or I'm going to be annoyed.

Well Neil Jackson can't stop saying how amazing she is and she's a badass witch in later episodes, so it looks like Katia will get what she wants and the rest of us get nothing but shipper bait.

Not the show I signed up for.

Edited by phoenics
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savinggrace

savinggrace

(edited)

Well Neil Jackson can't stop saying how amazing she is and she's a badass witch in later episodes, so it looks like Katia will get what she wants and the rest of us get nothing but shipper bait.

Not the show I signed up for.

 

Ugh. Both Neil and Katia can go since I fall asleep whenever they're on screen. The Horseman without head is actually a more riveting actor than Jackson.

 

I hate that I'm getting attached to Hawley because if these writers are true to their lazy form he's being set up to probably die so they can claim a casualty on Team Witness  without offing a regular cast member. There haven't been any promo pics of Nick  in the finale which is weird after giving him that major bonding moment in "Mama".

Edited by savinggrace
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Ugh. Both Neil and Katia can go since I fall asleep whenever they're on screen. The Horseman without head is actually a more riveting actor than Jackson.

 

Have you seen the previews for Monday's episode (Magnum Opus) with Crane swordfighting with Abraham. Awesome. Truly awesome. He is a more interesting character in the flashbacks, as opposed to him mooning over Katrina. Go figure.

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Moonsky

Moonsky

A little spoilery snippet from TVline about new recurring character Orion played by Max Brown:

 

There’s been speculation that Orion could be the Kindred in the human form.

 

Well Neil Jackson can't stop saying how amazing she is and she's a badass witch in later episodes, so it looks like Katia will get what she wants and the rest of us get nothing but shipper bait.

 

Not the show I signed up for.

 

 

Katrina’s greatness has been hyped up for almost two seasons without much of it playing out on screen. This talk of her being a powerful witch & skilled operative without seeing much to back it up breeds contempt for a character that viewers refer to by not so faltering titles as Princess Peach, Struggle Witch, Whisper Tits, and Breathy Whispers. Katrina would have to end the season being more awesome than all the badass witches of television past & present to justify all the hype by the showrunners. With Abbie, Ichabod, & Jenny being shown performing incantations without Katrina's help, the showrunners need to come up with some huge way to show why this witch is needed by the witnesses.

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fantique

fantique

There’s been speculation that Orion could be the Kindred in the human form.

 

 

Katrina’s greatness has been hyped up for almost two seasons without much of it playing out on screen. This talk of her being a powerful witch & skilled operative without seeing much to back it up breeds contempt for a character that viewers refer to by not so faltering titles as Princess Peach, Struggle Witch, Whispter Tits, and Breathy Whispers. Katrina would have to end the season being more awesome than all the badass witches of television past & present to justify all the hype by the showrunners. With Abbie, Ichabod, & Jenny being shown performing incantations without Katrina's help, the showrunners need to come up with some huge way to show why this witch is needed by the witnesses.

Oh my god I love you! That is pretty much how hard they would have to work for me to not roll my eyes whenever she appears. My first time hearing about Whisper Tits though, thanks for the laugh. I hate that an actress is actively objectified like this but it's just sad that they're bringing this upon themselves. Every time I hear something positive about Katrina from a male fan, half of the positive comments are about how she looks. That ridiculous corset and jeans look... I can see where they were going with the costume; badass but feminine. However, it only makes me think of those girls who say they don't care about being hot while wearing a hot pink push up bra that pops everything out of their top. I just can't take her seriously. 

 

Also an interesting snippet with Mr & Mrs BAMF, they should be called that regardless of the status.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMuma_qU4kI

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Indi

Indi

Have you seen the previews for Monday's episode (Magnum Opus) with Crane swordfighting with Abraham. Awesome. Truly awesome. He is a more interesting character in the flashbacks, as opposed to him mooning over Katrina. Go figure.

 

Yes, he's a good actor and although his scenes with Katrina are boring, he still makes a little more effort than Mison to not let Winter suck the life out of him. Maybe that's why some people say they have more chemistry. They don't, Jackson simply manages to look alive. Nicole and John Noble are still the only ones to escape unscathed.

 

Jackson also said things like: we'll see Katrina doing more powerful magic and that Katrina is a femme fatale. Methinks they should have cast a better actress for that role, because to this day, I'm still wondering how such a bland lifeless and average-looking woman could ever be a seductress.

 

Yeah, not looking forward to more Katrina backstory. That will make 2 episodes after the break about her backstory, which is more than the female lead has ever gotten.

 

I love Mr. & Mrs. BAMF! I'm so happy to see them together!

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savinggrace

savinggrace

(edited)

The casting notices aren't making me optimistic that the show is moving on from the past and staying grounded in modern times. They also aren't giving me hope that the show isn't going to continue to revolve around Ichabod and his family.

 

It's starting to look like the "Mama" episode was a one-off bone thrown to Abbie fans just to make it look like some effort is being made to develop her character. Meanwhile, future episodes will continue to revolve around the past with Ichabod and Katrina.

Edited by savinggrace
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Moonsky

Moonsky

(edited)
Oh my god I love you! That is pretty much how hard they would have to work for me to not roll my eyes whenever she appears. My first time hearing about Whisper Tits though, thanks for the laugh. I hate that an actress is actively objectified like this but it's just sad that they're bringing this upon themselves. Every time I hear something positive about Katrina from a male fan, half of the positive comments are about how she looks. That ridiculous corset and jeans look... I can see where they were going with the costume; badass but feminine. However, it only makes me think of those girls who say they don't care about being hot while wearing a hot pink push up bra that pops everything out of their top. I just can't take her seriously.

 

 

See despite the writing for Katrina that could be much better, I think there will be some sort of payoff for how she comes across on screen in future episodes. I think part of the problem is that some people aren’t connecting with Katia Winter’s portrayal so it leaves much to be desired. If she were on another show with more average actors this wouldn’t stand out as much but IMO most of the actors on Sleepy Hollow elevate the writing, so when she doesn’t it makes her acting flaws standout more. For example, when I was watching that scene between Ichabod & Katrina when they were watching the fake Bachelor show I was mostly thinking why is Katia’s face so stiff in so many of her scenes? Why won’t see relax her face & blink more? Ironically, she’s more relaxed in scenes that just involve Nicole Beharie & Neil Jackson than with other actors.

 

Anyway, since last season people have discussed the possibility that Katrina casted a spell on Ichabod in the Sin Eater episode which would explain some of his behavior when it comes to her & Henry. It’s also been speculated that she was assigned to him because she knew of the prophecy of the witnesses & she was supposed to keep him on that path. Maybe even that it will come out that her role in his journey meant that she wasn't supposed to fall in love with him but she did anyway. The thing is that even with all the speculations, what has kept some viewers from caring much is that the complexities of what all of that should entail isn’t coming through enough, so it doesn’t get them as excited for these type of revelations to be exposed as they should be.

Edited by Moonsky
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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

Jonathan Schaech has been cast as Solomon. It apparently has something to do with the Salem witch trials and he filmed a lot with Katia Winter. (Oh goodie! More Katrina storylines! /s)

http://www.examiner.com/article/sleepy-hollow-scoop-guest-star-johnathon-schaech-teases-salem-witch-trials

So the 15th episode they are currently filming involves more Katrina with looks into her history. Great.... not.

The showrunners are clueless. All the complaints and they put out how we will see more fucking Katrina. Why focus on Abbie, who is an actual witness.

This show is no longer must watch/can't miss TV for me. I can't believe they dropped a great show /premise for CFD. They must not think their ratings and DVR viewership can drop anymire. Personally. I think they are in for a surprise.

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shanndee

shanndee

Agreed BestestAuntEver. I will continue to dvr the rest of the season, but if I don't hear/read exciting promos about season 3 returning to the awesome that was season 1, I am finished.

 

Well done Goffman and Co. It takes real skill to turn fan excitement and appreciation into boredom and hatred in less than 1 season. What an uncommon talent you possess /sarcasm.

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catrox14

catrox14

Dear SH Showrunners,

 

 

You are idiots.  I can watch the Salem witch trials on .....wait for it......SALEM with Seth Gabel.  

 

Your former Number #1 Fan.

 

Gods, I hope Mison and Beharie just both rage quit and go start their own show.  

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Indi

Indi

Agreed BestestAuntEver. I will continue to dvr the rest of the season, but if I don't hear/read exciting promos about season 3 returning to the awesome that was season 1, I am finished.

 

Well done Goffman and Co. It takes real skill to turn fan excitement and appreciation into boredom and hatred in less than 1 season. What an uncommon talent you possess /sarcasm.

 

But you don't understand! We are haters and we are ruining the show. Like, if the ratings are down, it's because we're not true fans and we don't appreciate the brilliance of their vision.

 

This might come as a shock to Goffman and his equally untalented and delusional pals, but SH has always been a mediocre show, that was only praised by 1. the chemistry between the leads and 2. by being sufficiently scary, while not taking itself seriously. The further they drift away from that, the more viewers they're going to lose. He doesn't get to claim credit for the success of S1, but blame fans for the show's downfall in S2.

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blixie

blixie

My only consolation reading that was that he sounds like he's scrambling, he avoided every question and was making it about how the eps are in the can, we love our fans, we read everything, or maybe we want "casual" fans, but Katrina is a STRONG character, I said it so it's true!   Whatever, his Katrina stanning/Abbie undermining ass needs to get FIRED.

 

Are your reading that Fox Network? FIRE GOFFMAN.

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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

(edited)

Posting this new EW interview with Goffman here, because it contains some spoilers. Conclusion, this guy doesn't get it. Or rather, he doesn't want to understand what the problems are. There is no hope.

This fool had the nerve to say "trust us". Is he fucking kidding? That's the problem, I have no faith or trust in TPTB. Simply saying "trust us" isn't going to cut it. They have to show me changes consistently before I stop giving these idiots the side eye.

This a-hole side stepped every NB/Abbie Mills story but let us know Katrina had good things and more storylines/screen time coming.

No real real praise of his lead or her awesome character, just general we want to tell more Mills sisters stories. Then write them dumbass. Yet, you want me to "trust you".

"Trust us",when all you've done is produce a one off episode for your co-lead.

I haven't watched the show, yet. I wasn't feeling any rush or great need to watch. The above article makes me want to drop the mic and walk away from this clusterfuck.

Edited by BestestAuntEver
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FierceAfroChick

FierceAfroChick

(edited)

I actually cancelled the recording of last night’s ep during the teaser.  Then I cancelled the series recording.  And then I returned to watching HGTV. 

 

This interview doesn't inspire me to set the DVR again. I’ll follow the show here and on tumblr to see if it improves.

Edited by FierceAfroChick
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I still have it on the DVR but I think the winter break is my final break.  Nothing that I've seen seems to indicate a change in direction.  If Katrina is gone by the end of the season or if they get a new show runner for S3 I might come back.  If nothing else it'll be interesting to see what the Network plans to do, since the show is shedding viewers like crazy and it is not easy to get them back.

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