Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion: How's Your Head?

[pcta]

Slave Abbie not being well received on Twitter

[catrox14]

I am so disgusted with this idea.  I am sure they must be thinking it will be a great parallel. And what Abbie is going to have to convince Ichabod that she knows him and that they have this wonderful rapport and are partners from the future?  And then Katrina will be the one that saves the day and takes Abbie to the safe house? What in the holy hell are they smoking because it's clearly not good stuff if this is what they think is the way to go. 

 

Jeebus H. Christo.  This is not like Fauxlivia going to the the

alternate universe. It's JUST NOT.

 

How fucking stupid are these writers?  And how on earth does Fox let this fly?

 

It's just sick. Do they have NO FUCKING IDEA how problematic this is going to be.

 

I cannot actually find the words to communicate my dismay.  It's vile.

Edited February 3, 2015 by catrox14

[may flowers]

I knew that I would not like the upcoming arc despite the hard sell based on @abaiers tweets last night. He implied that they had spent enough time on Abbie's history - that the writers discussed her story extensively and thought enough had been done. He also responded to a Katrina fan that he and Katia agree that there should be more of Katrina and her magic. Seriously! (Sorry, don't know how to bring in quotes from another site.)

Add that to Abbie the slave story line and it is incredibly clear that these tone deaf idiots will never get it.

[phoenics]

I knew that I would not like the upcoming arc despite the hard sell based on @abaiers tweets last night. He implied that they had spent enough time on Abbie's history - that the writers discussed her story extensively and thought enough had been done. He also responded to a Katrina fan that he and Katia agree that there should be more of Katrina and her magic. Seriously! (Sorry, don't know how to bring in quotes from another site.)

Add that to Abbie the slave story line and it is incredibly clear that these tone deaf idiots will never get it.

WHAT?!?! Oh my God. Just - OH MY GOD!!!

They really don't get it - they've explored Abbie's story enough but NOT Katrina?!?! ASSHOLES!

<insert stream of cusswords and expletives>

I just. I cannot.

It really is over.

[Sepia]

I dunno, I'm willing to give it a shot. I don't have the utmost faith in the writers, but It could be really interesting if done tastefully.

 

 

[catrox14]

I dunno, I'm willing to give it a shot. I don't have the utmost faith in the writers, but It could be really interesting if done tastefully.

 

What possible motive do they have for doing this?

 

Destroy Ichabod further by having him be an asshole to Abble? 

 

Elevate Katrina to white savior? 

 

There is just nothing good that can come out of this. 

[RiddleyWalker]

I dunno, I'm willing to give it a shot. I don't have the utmost faith in the writers, but It could be really interesting if done tastefully.

I would agree. It looks like they're essentially doing exactly what they did in the Pilot with the roles and time reversed. One witness initially imprisoned and having to convince the other of the supernatural threat at hand. One out of time and essentially helpless, the other initially baffled but open-minded who's in a position of authority.  It will be interesting to see how many call-backs to the Pilot we see. 

 

Maybe they're saying, "You want to get back to Season 1…We'll give you season 1!"

[Sepia]

What possible motive do they have for doing this?

 

Destroy Ichabod further by having him be an asshole to Abble? 

 

Elevate Katrina to white savior? 

 

There is just nothing good that can come out of this. 

I only read the little synopsis here, but how is Katrina supposed to be a savior? Isn't she supposed to be trying to kill Ichabod? Also, Ichabod said he was an abolitionist, I'd like to see him put his money where his mouth is. I think this is the part I want to see most.

 

As to what possible motive they could have for this, I haven't the foggiest. This isn't the greatest sounding season finale to me, and yeah they are incredibly tone deaf when it comes to their audience, but I am going to say my curiosity is piqued.

I would agree. It looks like they're essentially doing exactly what they did in the Pilot with the roles and time reversed. One witness initially imprisoned and having to convince the other of the supernatural threat at hand. One out of time and essentially helpless, the other initially baffled but open-minded who's in a position of authority.  It will be interesting to see how many call-backs to the Pilot we see. 

 

Maybe they're saying, "You want to get back to Season 1…We'll give you season 1!"

That's a very interesting way of looking at it. Even thought I'm curious, I do not, however, want to see Ichabod treating Abbie badly in the slightest, I am certainly not here for that.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Sepia

[RiddleyWalker]

 

That's a very interesting way of looking at it. Even thought I'm curious, I do no, however, want to see Ichabod treating Abbie badly in the slightest, I am certainly not here for that.

Me either! I suspect Ichabod's treatment and response to Abbie in the episode will be similar to those of Abbie toward Ichabod in the Pilot…suspicion and disbelief initially (with intense curiosity) but accepting her story completely after seeing some signs or proof that she is telling the truth. They are the Witnesses, after all, and share a "bond." (Plus, Ichabod, at heart, is a decent man.)

Edited February 4, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[CinnamonCW]

WHAT?!?! Oh my God. Just - OH MY GOD!!!

They really don't get it - they've explored Abbie's story enough but NOT Katrina?!?! ASSHOLES!

<insert stream of cusswords and expletives>

I just. I cannot.

It really is over.

Just to clarify, I saw the exchanged referenced above on Twitter. He didn't say they've explored her past "enough." What Baiers said was that although they already focused on revealing some things about her past (such as her mom) they want to find more and that it's a "huge" topic they've discussed going into Season Three. I'm saying this because I actually jumped into the exchange myself.

Here's a link - https://twitter.com/abaiers/status/562503421639397376

Edited February 4, 2015 by CinnamonCW

[DearEvette]

Honestly, I am not at all perturbed by that synopsis.  Even in that brief paragraph it seems clear that Abbie isn't gonna go actually be portrayed as a slave. It seems like a clear role reversal.  Ichabod was suspected of being a murderer and a crazy man and he was imprisoned and put in a mental hospital.  Meanwhile here is a strange black woman appearing in Sleepy Hollow in the 1700s and nobody actually knows her and she isn't from the area.  Given that situation it isn't like she's gonna be allowed to wander around free.  Of course that is the first assumption. 

 

It also sounds like she is sprung pretty quickly and gets back solving stuff.  Frankly I think it sounds rather intriguing.  I doubt she'll be there long.  Probably about as long as she was in Purgatory.

[LeeLeePanda]

Honestly, I am not at all perturbed by that synopsis.  Even in that brief paragraph it seems clear that Abbie isn't gonna go actually be portrayed as a slave. It seems like a clear role reversal.  Ichabod was suspected of being a murderer and a crazy man and he was imprisoned and put in a mental hospital.  Meanwhile here is a strange black woman appearing in Sleepy Hollow in the 1700s and nobody actually knows her and she isn't from the area.  Given that situation it isn't like she's gonna be allowed to wander around free.  Of course that is the first assumption. 

 

It also sounds like she is sprung pretty quickly and gets back solving stuff.  Frankly I think it sounds rather intriguing.  I doubt she'll be there long.  Probably about as long as she was in Purgatory.

I was just about every to post the same thing! It's obvious that they are trying to parell the pilot with Abbie bring the fish out of water and Crane being the skeptic. This is an hour long show; I highly doubt they'd spend more than a scene and a half with Abbie in jail.

That being said, I'm pretty sure I've read at least 3 different fan fiction stories with similar plots. Now, I'm one of the few people here who hasn't outright hated this season. I think it's gone down in quality and a bit off the rails, but I'm still enjoying the show. I don't know if I'll be able to say the same thing if the screw up the finale.

[chrisvee]

Whatever they have to do to get rid of Katrina and Henry, I'm in.

[catrox14]

It's clear it's supposed to be a parallel but the problem is that Ichabod won't know her yet she'll know him, apparently.  That creates an invalid parallel right there.  I say that Katrina will be her white savior because they'll want Katrina to be redeemed. There is no way they will leave her evil forever.  

[pcta]

If they are going to do a reset - which I sincerely doubt - it just seems cheap. If they are not doing a reset - I truly am not fascinated by a reversal of the pilot. It seems like more filler. Perhaps it will be a partial reset, whatever.

Given the sidelining of Abbie, Jennie and Irving this season, you would think TPTB would be aware that a good portion of their audience would find the notion of slave (no matter how historically accurate and reasonable) a hot button notion.

Not interested in Katrina's Mommy angst. Also, the notion she wants to make sure Ichabod dies rather undermines the lovers across centuries we have heard so much of.

I am finally nearing/have reached the point where I am willing to put up with the ever changing "logic" of this show.

Edited February 4, 2015 by pcta

[LeeLeePanda]

I say that Katrina will be her white savior because they'll want Katrina to be redeemed. There is no way they will leave her evil forever.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything in that synopsis that comes anywhere close to suggest that Katrina is going to be a "white savior". Now, I don't doubt that that someone is going on try to save her or redeem her, because this is Sleepy Hollow and that's how it's rolling his season.

So either my reading comprehension is off, or people here are projecting their hate of the character into a pretty straight forward synopsis. There's nothing wrong with that, but wouldn't that conversation be better suited for another thread? Like maybe the Katrina thread, or the We Hate Sleepy Hollow Thread?

Edited February 4, 2015 by LeeLeePanda

[RiddleyWalker]

It's clear it's supposed to be a parallel but the problem is that Ichabod won't know her yet she'll know him, apparently.  That creates an invalid parallel right there.  I say that Katrina will be her white savior because they'll want Katrina to be redeemed. There is no way they will leave her evil forever.  

Good point, Caltrox. There's no way to make a truly exact parallel in this situation, though. Even without Abbie knowing Ichabod, going forward in time is different than going backwards in time (Abbie knowing the future and all.) I still think it's an interesting idea, to be honest.

 

I certainly hope the "redeem Katrina" idea isn't the way they go. I'm really hoping she's killed off in that episode or becomes irredeemably evil.

Given the sidelining of Abbie, Jennie and Irving this season, you would think TPTB would be aware that a good portion of their audience would find the notion of slave (no matter how historically accurate and reasonable) a hot button notion.

I suspect this is the largest problem with what we've heard of the Finale. It probably is fairly historically accurate (I have no expertise to say one way or another) but it's likely that any scenario with slavery in a light-weight genre series involving an AA lead is going to be perceived badly by many whose ancestors were slaves. I honestly can't comment more than that. Certainly I don't think previous depictions of AA's in Colonial Times on SH have been especially well done or sensitive. 

Edited February 4, 2015 by RiddleyWalker

[catrox14]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything in that synopsis that comes anywhere close to suggest that Katrina is going to be a "white savior". Now, I don't doubt that that someone is going on try to save her or redeem her, because this is Sleepy Hollow and that's how it's rolling his season.

So either my reading comprehension is off, or people here are projecting their hate of the character into a pretty straight forward synopsis. There's nothing wrong with that, but wouldn't that conversation be better suited for another thread? Like maybe the Katrina thread, or the We Hate Sleepy Hollow Thread?

 

 The mods can speak to this but I think the speculation on Katrina's arc is okay here since it comes from the spoiler filled synopsis.

 

To me just because Katrina is going darkside for this particular episode, doesn't mean she'll stay darkside. And if Goffman is still obsessed with giving Katia Winter more to do but not have her be hated, then giving her redemption by saving Abbie from slavery, just like she helped Solomon* in s1 would be parallel. If Abbie saves herself from her predicament that would be great. 

 

BUT my biggest issue is that the show already addressed the abolition aspect to explain why Ichabod would not totally shocked that Abbie was a police officer.  It's also incredibly lazy story telling.  JMO

 

ETA: I meant Arthur in s1...not Solomon.  Sheesh.

Edited February 4, 2015 by catrox14

[OnceSane]

Speculation about spoilers (including a synopsis of an episode) is fine within reason.

[LeeLeePanda]

The mods can speak to this but I think the speculation on Katrina's arc is okay here since it comes from the spoiler filled synopsis.

 

To me just because Katrina is going darkside for this particular episode, doesn't mean she'll stay darkside. And if Goffman is still obsessed with giving Katia Winter more to do but not have her be hated, then giving her redemption by saving Abbie from slavery, just like she helped Solomon in s1 would be parallel. If Abbie saves herself from her predicament that would be great. 

 

BUT my biggest issue is that the show already addressed the abolition aspect to explain why Ichabod would not totally shocked that Abbie was a police officer.  It's also incredibly lazy story telling.  JMO

I guess I'm confused since the synopsis says that Crane runs into Abbie and gets her out of jail. I guess I can understand if people were upset about Crane being a so called white savior. There's nothing in that spoiler that indicates that Katrina even interacts with Abbie while she's held. The spoiler just says that Katrina wants to kill Crane. Why would she help the one person who could foil her plans?

I do agree that her being suspected as a slave is problematic, especially since the only other black characters that we've from that era were free. Why not have the colonist think she's a drunk, and that's the reason they jail her? That being said, I don't think she'll be in jail long enough to be forced into slavery. I doubt think we'll see scenes of Abbie picking cotton, or singing slave songs.,

[catrox14]

It literally doesn't matter if Abbie is shown picking cotton or singing slavery songs.  But anyway, I think it's a horrible thing at this point and I have little faith in the show handling it well.  I guess will just have to agree to disagree at this point, I guess.

[Bad Bitch In Red]

Slave Abbie not being well received on Twitter

 

It shouldn't be well received any-fucking-where.

[Miss Dee]

Am I missing something? She's not actually going to be made a slave, is she? We're not talking about it being 6 months or something before she "meets" Captain Crane or something, are we? I just thought someone makes the wrong assumption and throws her in jail and she meets Captain Crane, soon convincing him she's for real. What am I missing that's so heinous?

[Yolapukka]

If they have Katrina go full evil and not just temporarily evil-is-like-a-box-of-chocolates bad, I'm almost willing to bet money that she'll be the one to finger Abbie as an "escaped slave." My problem with it is incarceration of the traveller is such a trope, that even if they are consciously mirroring Ichabod's experience of being displaced in time It's not terribly original.  I think they should do better in a finale.

Edited February 4, 2015 by yuggapukka

[RiddleyWalker]

I do agree that her being suspected as a slave is problematic, especially since the only other black characters that we've from that era were free. Why not have the colonist think she's a drunk, and that's the reason they jail her? That being said, I don't think she'll be in jail long enough to be forced into slavery. I doubt think we'll see scenes of Abbie picking cotton, or singing slave songs.,

 

I suspect the suspicion of Abbie as a slave will be quite brief. But that being said, is it better for a show that is (at least sometimes) set in colonial times to "side-step" slavery or better to acknowledge it and incorporate it into the story in some fashion….even if it is a "light-weight genre" show as I said earlier?

 

I'm truly curious about what the people whose opinions matter most about this, the AA members, think about this. I can see both sides, I suppose, but I'm trying to get a better handle on the views of those most impacted by this. 

[HalcyonDays]

HalcyonDays, you nailed it!

Thanks..I think. Too bad I was right. It was the first thing I thought the moment they mentioned time travel.

Slave Abbie not being well received on Twitter

 

Are you surprised? So instead of pissing off one group or the other each week (Ichabbie vs. Ichatrina), they've decided to piss off EVERYONE!! Good job, Goffman. And so much for the "Great Love Story", eh? Katrina tries to kill Ichabod. At least that will be the final nail in the marriage coffin.

 

I do see the parallel they are trying to do with Crane vs Abbie being in jail. Problem is with Abbie, they are walking a fine fine line here, and need to be very careful with how they do it. God, the shade from Orlando will win awards.

 

My prediction for the record:

--> Katrina trying to kill Crane - final nail in marriage coffin. They are donzo. Duh.

--> Katrina stays behind in the past (of course) and can now properly raise Henry. Since he never gets buried alive, he never becomes Horseman of War, and Irving never gets killed.

 

Crane's situation will go one of three ways:

a) Crane does get axed by Headless for a second time, and Katrina puts him in the spell, he gets buried, awakens, and everything starts from scratch. However, Katrina, being evil, won't allow herself to be sent to Purgatory, and can defeat her coven, and therefore be able to raise Jeremy. But the Witnesses are still needed and Moloch is a threat again.

b) Crane never gets axed in the first place. Therefore no chest scar, no burial, no waking up in the future. Katrina is not kicked out of the coven. Katrina can raise Jeremy properly. Headless also does not exist, since Crane wouldn't have beheaded him. Everything they have been through never happens. Irving never dies. However, Crane still chooses to go into the future to be with Abbie.

c) Everything from above EXCEPT if they know the show won't be renewed, CRANE will be killed on the battlefield and Abbie gets sent back to the future.

 

This episode will act like a SERIES final. If the show gets renewed, then they can start from scratch with new threats, like Katrina being the big bad or something. If the show is cancelled, Crane will be killed, Katrina and Jeremy will stay in the past and Abbie goes to Quantico. The End.

 

No shippers win and no one is killed save for Crane. God, I'm depressed.

[pcta]

Am I missing something? She's not actually going to be made a slave, is she? We're not talking about it being 6 months or something before she "meets" Captain Crane or something, are we? I just thought someone makes the wrong assumption and throws her in jail and she meets Captain Crane, soon convincing him she's for real. What am I missing that's so heinous?

In many folks opinion (and mine) they have been dissing the AA characters this season (sidelining and disappearing them for many episodes). Some feel that Abbie has been treated like the help by the Crane's (getting their food etc) So..... This particular plot device is tone deaf at best.

[LeeLeePanda]

I'm an African American woman. I've lost many white friends in the last few months because of how outspoken I am about the racial issues we are facing in America today. I was enraged when Fox News used the darkest, ugliest picture possible of Mike Brown when they interrupted Sleepy Holliw for the indictment verdict. The spoiler that Abbie is mistaken for a runaway slave makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, but it doesn't upset me. now, if we actually see Abbie forced into slavery I'll be the first to rage. Nothing here seems to indicate that will happen.

[Bad Bitch In Red]

I suspect the suspicion of Abbie as a slave will be quite brief. But that being said, is it better for a show that is (at least sometimes) set in colonial times to "side-step" slavery or better to acknowledge it and incorporate it into the story in some fashion….even if it is a "light-weight genre" show as I said earlier?

 

I'm truly curious about what the people whose opinions matter most about this, the AA members, think about this. I can see both sides, I suppose, but I'm trying to get a better handle on the views of those most impacted by this. 

 

For this show that has sidelined all the POC in the cast including the fucking leading lady, they should stay far far away from anything having to do with race.  Now if we were talking about a show where the showrunner and writers had a proven record on race and representation it would be a different story.

[Happytobehere]

Seriously, show???? Why the fuck would you do this???  Oh of course, so Abbie can be out of her time?  /head desk head desk head desk

 

Just when I thought we had turned a corner......Fuck this.

 

 

 

It's only a lie because it would be a huge fucking retcon.

Because in the mind of Goffman and his writing staff, there clearly isn't more than one functional brain amongst them, a moneyed white man having to adjust to the modern world as he and his skank live off and disrespect a black woman is entirely compatible to a black women being sent back in time where she would be thought to be and treated liked a slave. Don't you get it Slave Abby = Inconvenienced Ichabod.

[Miss Dee]

Pcta, thank you. I am white and thought there must be something going over my head. I appreciate the explanation.

LeeLee, thank you for your POV as well. I'm hoping for the same thing. I think the key will be how they treat Abbie's agency during this situation. I'll cross my fingers that someone there knows what they're doing.

[RiddleyWalker]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this subject (slavery, Abbie and SH) as well as those that might not have posted yet. I appreciate it. 

[Indi]

I would agree. It looks like they're essentially doing exactly what they did in the Pilot with the roles and time reversed. One witness initially imprisoned and having to convince the other of the supernatural threat at hand. One out of time and essentially helpless, the other initially baffled but open-minded who's in a position of authority.  It will be interesting to see how many call-backs to the Pilot we see. 

 

Maybe they're saying, "You want to get back to Season 1…We'll give you season 1!"

 

Except that they are not doing exactly, what they did in the Pilot with the roles reversed, because Ichy was never in danger of being maimed, killed, raped and sold into slavery for being white. Nowhere near close. The dynamic is entirely different, because Abbie knows the odds are against her and that these nasty people would destroy her, unless someone in a position of power, in this case Ichy, saves her physical integrity. It is gross to say the least.

 

I suppose that's their way to wish Happy Black History Month.

 

[Indi]

I knew that I would not like the upcoming arc despite the hard sell based on @abaiers tweets last night. He implied that they had spent enough time on Abbie's history - that the writers discussed her story extensively and thought enough had been done. He also responded to a Katrina fan that he and Katia agree that there should be more of Katrina and her magic. Seriously! (Sorry, don't know how to bring in quotes from another site.)

Add that to Abbie the slave story line and it is incredibly clear that these tone deaf idiots will never get it.

 

Confirmation that Katrina doesn't die in the finale. Great.

 

[savinggrace]

I'm okay with the the finale plot because as someone else said it's unlikely Abbie will be in a field picking cotton singing Swing Low Sweet Chariot. It's more likely she'll be detained briefly, ask for Crane and then be released when Ichabod realizes she's on to something. It's been established that Ichabod is progressive and did not support slavery so I doubt he will mistreat Abbie. katrina has no reason to be a savior to Abbie sense Abbie is the only one who knows her motives. I look forward to seeing Ichabod's impressions of Abbie during his time and how he comes to trust her.

 

As far as resets go this is the best way to go about if for this show. Having it all be a dream would be way too Dallas copycat. Bringing Abbie back in time with Ichabod makes sense because you can't leave her out of the finale (although with Goffman he probably would if he thought he could get away with it). If you're going to bring Abbie back in time you can't ignore the racial implications and that slavery existed back then.

 

My only confusion is why Katrina would want to kill the father of her child? Why would she need to kill Ichabod to raise Jeremy? Maybe Ichabod isn't Jeremy/Henry's father?

 

I'm open to this finale but only because of the reset possibilities. If the episode ends with Katrina, Henry and Abraham still in modern times it will be a complete waste of time and mark the third opportunity the show had to pull the trigger on Katrina but failed to follow through.

[Indi]

I think it's funny that, in a season where Ichy has been constantly throwing Abbie under the bus, been a jerk to her and proven he will side with literally everyone except her, it is Abbie, who has to prove herself to him and fight for him.

[AmandaPanda]

These recent spoilers have everyone a bit heated. As we get into the finale, please remember the purpose of the spoilers and speculation thread.

 

Things that are okay:
1. discussion of problematic aspects of spoilers 
2. speculation on how different characters will react in this given situation

Not okay:
1. discussion of how the storyline is coming about as a result of Goffman's racism
2. discussion of how the storyline is all Katia's fault 

 

There is plenty of discussion about the behind-the-scenes drama in the media and therapy threads. It doesn't need to take over the spoiler thread as well.

[marceline]

This show can just go ahead and die now.

 

I guess this puts Mison's remarks about Crane's love for Abbie in perspective. It was pre-emptive damage control.

Edited February 4, 2015 by marceline

[Marie F.]

I'm not going to blame Katia or call Goffman racist, but I'll add my two cents about Slave Abbie spoiler, too...

 

For me, I don't understand why she has to be mistaken for a runaway slave since there were freed people like her grandmother, as someone mentioned above.  I don't think it's necessary and I don't trust the writers to not make the situation cringe-worthy.

 

I also think that it adds to the show's poor treatment of Abbie; they clearly don't like or care about the character and are constantly setting her aside along with Irving and Jenny.  They like to push her to the background and remind people of how much better Katrina is--how much more attractive/sexy she supposedly is, how much of a better operative she allegedly is, how much more important she is to Ichabod, and how much more important and worthy of exploration her past, present, and future are. 

 

The rest of the spoiler sounds tired and uninteresting, but I do get the parallel they're trying to make with the first episode and understand they have to acknowledge the fact that Abbie is a black woman in colonial times and can't just dismiss it, but I think they should stay as far away from race as possible and I don't want to see Abbie in a cell--and PLEASE don't let there be any shackles or cuffs involved when they arrest her.  (I feel really bad for the actress.)  For me, it's not just her being mistaken for a runaway slave--it's the show's history of mistreating and ignoring Abbie and it's hard not to tie that mistreatment to her race.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Aracely

[Indi]

This show can just go ahead and die now.

 

I guess this puts Mison's remarks about Crane's love for Abbie in perspective. It was pre-emptive damage control.

 

Exactly! But I don't understand why they thought a lie like that could take them far.

[HalcyonDays]

It's more likely she'll be detained briefly, ask for Crane and then be released when Ichabod realizes she's on to something. It's been established that Ichabod is progressive and did not support slavery so I doubt he will mistreat Abbie.

 

I completely understand the outrage, but I have a feeling they are trying to do parallel when Ichabod was in jail. Abbie will be wearing strange clothes (and pants, of all things), have no ID/papers, no money, nothing on her, no explanation as to why she is being there, in the middle of a battlefield, from what it sounds like. Because humanity is dumb, some soldier will of course automatically think that she could be a runaway slave. I didn't say it's right, but its a knee-jerk reaction from a white man in a time or war, a time of male superiority and when England was really starting to rebel against slavery, yet they were still engaged in the slave trade. Slavery wasn't abolished in England until 1833, but there were rumblings against the practise for decades before. Just like you said, it will be very quick scene where he questions her, she says some things that really impact him, then he sneaks her out of there. And please don't upset over this comparision, but it can be considered something similar to a person who is a known Patriot, for example, deciding to switch sides and become a Redcoat. The Redcoats are going to throw him in jail right away and interrogate him to be SURE he isn't a traitor. I know there is a bigger picture here, adding race and being a female, but I can see WHY this would occur, if that makes sense.

 

My only confusion is why Katrina would want to kill the father of her child? Why would she need to kill Ichabod to raise Jeremy? Maybe Ichabod isn't Jeremy/Henry's father?

 

If Ichabod is killed by Katrina, then he is never on the battlefield. He never meets with Headless/Abraham and therefore doesn't get slashed and killed by Headless. Katrina and the coven wouldn't have put Ichabod into a deep sleep for 200+ years. Because he was in a deep sleep, and because Katrina did it, the Coven kicked her out. Because she was kicked out and sent to Purgatory, she had to leave behind her baby to be raised by Grace. If Katrina is still around, she would be able to raise the kid, the kid wouldn't be a mess, and he wouldn't have been buried alive and become the Horseman of War. Corbin lives. Headless probably won't be around. No Horseman of War. No Four White Trees and the Mills sisters. Jenny never goes to Tarrytown. Lori Mills never goes crazy. The family is normal. None of that happens. That's what I think.

 

Other than that, it could be that she is being forced to kill Ichabod, because of Jeremy's wishes.

[Indi]

FOX requested the removal of the synopsis. It's not available on Spoiler TV anymore. The plot thickens.

[marceline]

FOX requested the removal of the synopsis. It's not available on Spoiler TV anymore. The plot thickens.

 

Oooh! Intriguing. Fox knows the Sleepyheads want blood.

 

Honestly I haven't seen a fanbase this charged up since I quit watching One Live to Live back in 2007. Oddly enough for reasons very similar to what's happening here.

[RiddleyWalker]

I completely understand the outrage, but I have a feeling they are trying to do parallel when Ichabod was in jail. Abbie will be wearing strange clothes (and pants, of all things), have no ID/papers, no money, nothing on her, no explanation as to why she is being there, in the middle of a battlefield, from what it sounds like. Because humanity is dumb, some soldier will of course automatically think that she could be a runaway slave. I didn't say it's right, but its a knee-jerk reaction from a white man in a time or war, a time of male superiority and when England was really starting to rebel against slavery, yet they were still engaged in the slave trade. Slavery wasn't abolished in England until 1833, but there were rumblings against the practise for decades before. Just like you said, it will be very quick scene where he questions her, she says some things that really impact him, then he sneaks her out of there. And please don't upset over this comparision, but it can be considered something similar to a person who is a known Patriot, for example, deciding to switch sides and become a Redcoat. The Redcoats are going to throw him in jail right away and interrogate him to be SURE he isn't a traitor. I know there is a bigger picture here, adding race and being a female, but I can see WHY this would occur, if that makes sense.

 

 

As a white man, I'm starting to see that depictions of slavery in historical fiction is a third rail, much like depictions of the Holocaust. There's so much potential to give offense that I suspect that in the future it will be avoided by writers, TV and film except by those of AA background.

[FierceAfroChick]

Honestly I haven't seen a fanbase this charged up since I quit watching One Live to Live back in 2007. Oddly enough for reasons very similar to what's happening here.

 

Ooh, don't remind me of the craziness that went on behind the scenes with OLTL.  My Blair/Kassie DePaiva-loving, T&B-loving, Cris&Evangeline loving, Roger Howarth loving ass went hot and cold with that show so many times.  Still very bitter.

 

I still haven't watched a second-half ep of SH and refuse to. I'm just sipping my tea and enjoying the side show.

[marceline]

I doubt that this storyline would've caused such outrage if not for the fact that the writers have spent the entire season disrespecting Abbie and the audience. There's simply no trust in their ability or willingness to handle this sensitively. After the clusterfuck this season became it makes sense to expect the worst.

[Indi]

I still haven't watched a second-half ep of SH and refuse to. I'm just sipping my tea and enjoying the side show.

 

It has a better plot.

[blixie]

 

My Blair/Kassie DePaiva-loving, T&B-loving,

 

Todd and Blair forever baby! I mean...I shipped that for 25 years! Can't say I was fan of Evangeline, she went on my shitlist when she dissed RJ, and never ever recovered, they should have put her with Kevin 11.

 

I'm very torn about this plot line, in the sense that 98% of me thinks it's a terrible idea, especially within the context of how they've treated Abbie and the rest of the cast who isn't white. This is essentially pouring more grease on a kitchen fire. I've zero reason to believe they will handle this with any sensitivity or tact, or basic competence. They need to make those scenes very brief, and establish immediately that Ichabod instinctively trusts and believes her in much the same way Abbie trusted and believed in him.

 

I mostly only am interested in the sense of it really resetting things, but that would require Katrina herself to blow up, not just her relationship with Ichabod.

[Marie F.]

As a white man, I'm starting to see that depictions of slavery in historical fiction is a third rail, much like depictions of the Holocaust. There's so much potential to give offense that I suspect that in the future it will be avoided by writers, TV and film except by those of AA background.

I think so, too, but I wish these topics didn't have to be untouchable for all writers.  When writers don't possess the sensibility, perspective or competency to handle these types of topics but choose to attempt them anyway, they should at least consult with members of their intended audience they feel might be offended.  I wonder if they asked Nicole Baharie or Orlando their opinions (the way that they've apparently been consulting with Katia about her character and stories).  Nicole seems kind of shy and I don't know about her, but I have a feeling Orlando, at least, would have been very vocal about how this idea might be received by the audience because he clearly gets what people like about the show and why they complain.

 

At any rate, I'm hoping these scenes are very brief, and if they aren't, I hope the network is ordering some edits before it airs since they've pulled the synopsis offline.  The only things that intrigued me about the finale synopsis was the potential for a reset and Jenny finding out something about Irving.  The Jenny/Irving thing kind of has me scared for Jenny.

[catrox14]

Exactly! But I don't understand why they thought a lie like that could take them far.

 

At this point, I would trust Mison more than the showrunners or the promo monkeys. Seriously. He has to know that coming right out and saying Ichabod is in love with Abbie is a big deal.

 

I suppose maybe the way this all plays out is that Mison is telling the truth...and that maybe Ichabod realizes his  love for Abbie is romantic and as a partner because he sees something in her in the past that pings with him. I'm not saying I believe it will happen but maybe.