All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[BizBuzz]

I just started watching again, TWW seems to be my winter comfort TV.  So as I was watching the pilot, I noticed something I never noticed before, and let me tell you, I have seen seasons 1-4 more often than I would care to admit, suffice it to say, a lot. 

 

At the very end when everyone leaves the oval office and Jed say's what's next and he sits in his chair?  He flips off his shoe, like he was super happy everyone finally left so that he could do something un-presidential.  ::giggle::

 

Then he starts rubbing his foot.  I never saw that before, and I thought to myself, what a brilliant nuance to add to give me a certain feel that hey yeah, he is the president, but he is human too.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

It is a rainy Saturday night and I am doing what normal people do. Watching West Wing. Some random thought.

 

Big relief that Mandy screwed the crew. I understand she wrote that memo before she was asked to work for the Bartlet Admin but a heads up would have been nice. I can't believe a seasoned DCer wouldn't foresee this coming to bite her in the ass. 

 

What Kind of Day it Has Been was an ominous episode. I knew what was going to happen but my heart was in my throat the whole episode. Kinda like Zoey's agent. Still shivers when the limo made the wide u-turn. 

 

No worries Leo, Margret's got the president's signature down pat.

 

My favorite CJ briefing is probably the one about gun victims in ITSoTG2. The President's party were not the only gun victims of the day, I was so touched when she went on to summarized a report on who was. Yes, you can do this CJ!

 

Bradley's smile when Josh showed up, wet, the second time at Sam's office is forever sired in my brain. It was beautiful.

 

Sam and Josh's friendship was my favorite none romance pairing. No, that would be Jed and Leo.

 

To the Mister of Agriculture "Do you have a best friend?" 

Minister "Yes"

Jed "That is your chief of staff"

 

Take a drink every time Josh ask Donna "You are you" and Donna responds "Donna Moss"

 

I should have used, "Donna Moss - You Might Find Me Valuable" for her thread title. Oh sweetie, he loved you from that moment.

 

Josh to Leo "You looked like you wanted me to hug you"

Leo "Don't do that again"

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

PS - Anyone think the way Josh was hitting his head against the headboard, watching CJ's morning briefing about "Physicists" was certifiable? I thought he was just frustrated she got the pronunciation wrong, but it is more than that.

 

"Noel" is about 6 episodes after the Midterms so maybe that was a sign of his PTSD.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[AriAu]

PS - Anyone think the way Josh was hitting his head against the headboard, watching CJ's morning briefing about "Physicists" was certifiable? I thought he was just frustrated she got the pronunciation wrong, but it is more than that.

 

"Noel" is about 6 episodes after the Midterms so maybe that was a sign of his PTSD.

 

One of my favorite cold ones, but I think you are over thinking it a little. Pretty sure they did it to bring the funny, but you just never know.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I didn't think so but Sorkin does long arcs well, so maybe he was subtly dropping hints.

 

He was hitting his head pretty hard on that headboard!

[eyebleach]

My favorite CJ briefing is probably the one about gun victims in ITSoTG2. The President's party were not the only gun victims of the day, I was so touched when she went on to summarized a report on who was. Yes, you can do this CJ!

 

 

 

And I LOVE Danny's clear adoration of her when she does that.  I love Danny and CJ :)

[eyebleach]

Why does Zoe start Georgetown in the spring?

[betsyboo]

Why does Zoe start Georgetown in the spring?

Did she graduate high school early, what with the election and moving and everything? I admit i have no recollection and that is just my stab in the dark at a reason.

[eyebleach]

I am not entirely sure it is ever explained but for some reason it always bugged me!

[BW Manilowe]

They never explained why Zoey was written as entering Georgetown in the Spring Semester. Anything's possible:

She had enough credits from Advanced Placement courses taken in High School that she could effectively skip attending the Fall Semester & still graduate in 4 years;

Even before Jed became POTUS, she had decided to "take some extended time for herself", or something, between High School & College & not attend the Fall Semester, or maybe there was another reason she wanted/needed "deferred enrollment";

She was campaigning for Jed's 1st term election during the Fall Semester (which, at most US Universities/Colleges, runs from mid-late August to just before the December holiday season), & her involvement in that made attending the Fall Semester a "non-starter" because of the time commitment the campaign needed (she probably could've taken some courses online, but that may be a little "simple")--but I can't remember if the show ever said how involved Zoey, specifically, was in the campaign that 1st sent Jed to the White House (I thought I remembered 1 of the daughters not really being involved in the campaigning, but I haven't watched in awhile & I forget who it was);

Perhaps it was at the insistence/urging of the Secret Service--perhaps they asked Zoey to defer her enrollment to the Spring, once the campaign got to the point where Jed had protection as a Candidate/Nominee & there was a real possibility he'd win, because--as I said--the Fall Semester would be starting in the last 3 months of the campaign, which wouldn't necessarily be all that convenient for the Bartlets or the Service; also maybe they'd want the Administration & the Bartlet Family to have a chance to settle into DC & the Service to "get their ducks in a row" on the Georgetown campus/in the buildings Zoey would be using before classes/orientation started (although I'm almost positive they'd had a lot of/enough prior experience with other protectees attending classes there that they could check out the campus & get set up there fairly quickly;

Maybe Zoey & her family jointly decided Spring Admission would be easiest because it would give them all "down time" after the campaign, so they could get some rest & adjust to the election results, if Jed won, before Zoey had to turn her attention from being a campaign surrogate to being a student once again;

Maybe Zoey was just plain too indecisive, for too long, once she began receiving acceptance letters & she took so long to settle on a school (the whole "do I wanna be tied, at least indirectly, to the actions of my Father's Administration if he wins & I go to school in DC, or do I wanna distance myself, go to school somewhere else, & at least try to 'be my own person?'" thing) that she missed the cutoff for Fall Admissions, either accidentally or on purpose & she had no choice but to start in the Spring Semester.

My *real* theory is, Sorkin was at least attempting to write in "real time" most of the time (it was supposed, for the most part unless Sorkin messed up the continuity, to be the same month--if not the same year--in the real world & in eps as they aired/in the world where the characters existed... they celebrated holidays at the same time, etc.). When he decided to introduce Zoey, the Georgetown Fall Semester had already begun/was at least half over; to introduce her as an incoming student, he probably thought the easiest way was to say she was starting classes in the Spring. Otherwise, in her earliest appearances, the audience might've wondered how she wasn't flunking out from being in DC more than in school.

I don't know why he couldn't have said she was transferring from, like, Dartmouth to Georgetown though, to be closer to her parents after the Inauguration--that would've also made sense to me, & explained the Spring Admission thing quite easily.

At least he didn't write Zoey--usually a fairly intelligent young woman, except during the Jean-Paul dalliance--as being a flunk out, dropout, or having no interest in higher education (something that may not have been tolerated in the Bartlet home anyway). Even though he was introducing her as a Spring Admit to Georgetown, he could've conceivably gone that way to explain why she was a Spring Admit & not a Fall Admit to Georgetown (shrugs).

[Bastet]

I thought Bartlet had already been in office a year when the show started, meaning fall semester would have been when Zoey was already ensconced as First Daughter, not when she would have been on the campaign trail.

[oceanblue]

That's right Bastet, we only saw the last 7 years of the Barlet administration.  We didn't see much of Abbey the first year of the show, but she did seem to live with Jed v. with Zoey in Manchester.  We don't know if Zoey's senior year of HS was in NH or in DC.

[BW Manilowe]

Two actual NASCARs were recently parked in front of/in the driveway of the White House. I think it had something to do with promoting use of seatbelts/some sort of new seatbelt-related initiative, somehow (I meant to post this when I originally saw it, but I got busy & didn't, & have subsequently forgotten what the White House's explanation was for the cars being parked there). When I saw that on my Twitter feed, at the following link,

https://twitter.com/podesta44/status/542403274444255232

it made me think of the ep where Annabeth sent Abbey to present the winner's trophy at a NASCAR race in the show (& Annabeth's photographic briefing, beforehand, on the Who's Who of NASCAR drivers as well as the "fallout" that seemed to come afterwards, when the winner grabbed Abbey & planted a big, fat kiss on her on national TV).

I definitely remember someone telling Annabeth, seconds after the White House saw the kiss, Abbey was on the phone for Annabeth... with the implication being that Abbey was calling because she wasn't happy about something, possibly the kiss (Maybe it's a protocol/etiquette breach when meeting the First Lady/someone in the US First Family, like when LeBron James got a little too "chummy" with the Duchess &/or Duke of Cambridge while meeting them at the basketball game the other night & put his arm around her/him/them during their photo op, as if they'd been old friends for years instead of having just met).

[Erratic]

I just finished my first, completely unspoilt trip through the series.

I am curious though: at the start of season 7, they have the old crew 3 years in the future at the opening of Bartlett's library. Was Leo ever in that scene and just removed posthumously, or was there a reason that he wasn't there?

[BW Manilowe]

I just finished my first, completely unspoilt trip through the series.

I am curious though: at the start of season 7, they have the old crew 3 years in the future at the opening of Bartlett's library. Was Leo ever in that scene and just removed posthumously, or was there a reason that he wasn't there?

Leo was never there to start with. The general consensus, at the time of original airing & since, is that since he was eventually revealed to be 1 of the candidates in the election to succeed Bartlet's (*1* T at the end of his name, *not* 2, by the way) presidency, writing Leo into that flash forward scene would've been too problematic & given away too much about the election's outcome too early in the season--at least if they knew/had an idea how they wanted the election to go when they did this scene. So they deliberately left him out of it. (On the other hand, Donna also wasn't in that scene but her presence wouldn't have necessarily had to give away the eventual Josh/Donna outcome, like Leo's presence would've had to have given away the Santos/McGarry ticket's fate in the election airing later in the season)

Leo's presence in that scene would've been too problematic, & given away too much about the election's outcome too early in the season, because of how the other characters would've had to address him if he'd been included. If Santos/McGarry had won the election, the others would've had to refer to him as "Mr. Vice President" &/or "Vice President McGarry"; if Santos/McGarry lost, then everybody would've continued to call him "Leo", as earlier in the series.

Either way, the election results would've been spoiled for the audience much earlier in the season than the showrunners intended.

Also, as I remember, this scene aired before John Spencer's untimely passing in real life--though I might be wrong about that. The actor's real-life passing also complicated that scene, once it aired--though it ended up working out "okay", all things considered, because they never gave the future Vice President a last name in that scene; Josh just said something like, "The Vice President's here." & the gang went out to greet the motorcade.

If they'd referred to a living "Vice President McGarry" in the Bartlet Library dedication scene they'd have had a problem later on, because of the rewrites necessitated by John Spencer's real-life passing--in the show/the rewrites Leo McGarry's name remained on the ballots & he ended up being elected to the office of Vice President, but he died while the votes were being counted, before he could officially take office. President Santos had to nominate/nominated someone to fill the vacant Vice Presidency after he took office, as I remember. And they would've been the Vice President attending the Bartlet Library dedication, after all, not Vice President Leo McGarry.

[BizBuzz]

I have a question ... I watched "In This White House" - at the end when Jed is telling Nimbala about the coup in his country, he says "We think your brother and your two sons are already dead. We think your wife is being hidden in Kenya. You understand, don't you, why I can't offer military assistance?"

 

Why couldn't Jed offer military assistance?  What did I miss?

[kassygreene]

Military assistance would have been armed intervention, the sort of thing we can't do overtly since the Cold War "ended" (nowadays seems more like a pause).  The U.S. officially has to deal with who is in charge, no matter how they got there (Egypt over the last three years or so is an example of that).

 

As to Leo and the season 7 flash forward opener, it was the dedication for the Bartlet Presidential Library, and as such the sitting President was going to attend.  This is what sitting Presidents do for their predecessor's library, 44 for 43, 43 for 42, and so on.  Josh jogged up, took in the old familiar faces and grinned, and then announced that the President was arriving.  As to who it was, the editing did a good job of hiding it.  Santos and Vinick were about the same height, and the film slam-cuts to the title before we can see if the President's hair is brown or gray.  As noted above, if Leo had been in the flash forward, how he was addressed (and whether or not he was accompanied by his own Secret Service agents) would have given away the election results.

 

If memory serves, it hadn't been officially decided if Vinick or Santos would win.  Most of the producers maintained it was still up-in-the-air in December when John Spencer died (a few days into the holiday hiatus).  Lawrence O'Donnell always says that Vinick was going to win.  But after JS died, having Santos lose was apparently too depressing to write.  

[AriAu]

As to Leo and the season 7 flash forward opener, it was the dedication for the Bartlet Presidential Library, and as such the sitting President was going to attend.  This is what sitting Presidents do for their predecessor's library, 44 for 43, 43 for 42, and so on.  Josh jogged up, took in the old familiar faces and grinned, and then announced that the President was arriving.  As to who it was, the editing did a good job of hiding it.  Santos and Vinick were about the same height, and the film slam-cuts to the title before we can see if the President's hair is brown or gray.  As noted above, if Leo had been in the flash forward, how he was addressed (and whether or not he was accompanied by his own Secret Service agents) would have given away the election results.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc_OhA_5FpM

 

Hadn't watched that scene in a while-my rewatches are generally of the first 4 seasons! Forgot the awkwardness of the POTUS/Toby discussion and given where they went with that storyline, altogether appropriate.

They obviously knew that CJ and Danny would be together but at that moment, it would have been possible to assume that they would not, making the end of Institutional Memory not a foregone conclusion.

[jaytee1812]

I'm not sure where I read this or if it's even true. But there is a rumour that the president arriving at the start of The Ticket is Leo.

[kassygreene]

No, not Leo.  Whether it was Jimmy Smits or Alan Alda or a stand-in, the person who got out of the limo was too tall to be John Spencer.

[clarkbar]

Just watched In Excelsis Deo for the first time in many years.  So much good stuff I had forgotten.  I always think of Toby and Mrs. L at the funeral, but I had forgotten the President shopping at the bookstore, the lovely interplay with C. J. and Danny, Josh's ski book gift to Donna, and the way he watches her from the doorway.  The scene between Mrs. Landingham and Charlie breaks my heart.  Every character seems to have a great scene.

My favorite WW Christmas episode is Noel, but boy does In Excelsis Deo give it a run for its money.

[Bastet]

I love to shop in used bookstores, and I like to entertain myself by declaring, "I believe I would eat this book before I read it" when I come across a particularly boring tome.

[AriAu]

My favorite WW Christmas episode is Noel, but boy does In Excelsis Deo give it a run for its money.

 

 

I gotta go with In Excelsis Deo, but it is awfully close, especially since Noel has "Guy was walking down the street and he fell into a hole.....yeah, but I know the way out."  Always gets a little dusty around here when I watch this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQJ6yqQRAQs

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Noel has a slight edge on In Excelsis Deo, Leo's speech is one of the best speeches not written by Toby or Sam.

 

I gotta go with In Excelsis Deo, but it is awfully close, especially since Noel has "Guy was walking down the street and he fell into a hole.....yeah, but I know the way out."  Always gets a little dusty around here when I watch this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQJ6yqQRAQs

 

Plus

 

Edited December 17, 2014 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[eyebleach]

Deputy - your user name RULES!
 

And I am fully in Noel above In Excelsis Deo.  Both are fabulous episodes but Noel is one of my top 10 fav TWW episodes.  Again, as if I haven't been clear....I love Josh.

[firebookie]

Is anyone else having a deja vu with Obama's news on Cuba and the Senator from Florida?

[AriAu]

Leo's speech is one of the best speeches not written by Toby or Sam.

 

BWAAAAHHH. That is toooooo funny.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

BWAAAAHHH. That is toooooo funny.

 

They write all the best ones though!

 

Another unscripted was Jed's first entrance. Granted, it is from the Ten Commandments but still ....

 

We should do a rematch. Pleeeeease! It was lonesome being a latecomer. I missed all the great ongoing discussions.

[BizBuzz]

We should do a rematch. Pleeeeease! It was lonesome being a latecomer. I missed all the great ongoing discussions.

 

I am always up for a rewatch ... but could we do it after the first of the year?

[AriAu]

It was lonesome being a latecomer. I missed all the great ongoing discussions

 

You actually can not believe how GREAT the discussions were at TWOP. There were (mostly) brilliant insights on everything from the actual political content of the episodes to the dialogue to the direction to the trivial (CJ's hair, Josh and Donna 'shipping) and the discussion was lively, energizing and damn funny. It seriously cut into my billable hours on Thursdays. The recaps were nothing short of brilliant and I would tell you to go to TWOP's site since the recaps are still up, but last time I checked, you couldn't get past the first page of any of the recaps.

I am not sure I can do them justice!

[BizBuzz]

^yes, to all of that.

 

The West Wing is how I found TWOP ... and the whole section was awesome reading all the time. 

 

I can remember like it was yesterday the night that John Spencer died, and how the board erupted in sadness.  :(

 

Those were good times ... we can try to recreate the magic, however, it was a moment in time ... hard to recreate.  We can have fun trying tho!

[Bastet]

The recaps were nothing short of brilliant and I would tell you to go to TWOP's site since the recaps are still up, but last time I checked, you couldn't get past the first page of any of the recaps.

 

I just tried with a few random episodes and the same thing happened -- I could only read the first page.

 

I missed all the great ongoing discussions.

 

The TWoP forums weren't archived (which makes me very, very sad), but you can get to them via the Wayback Machine at the Internet Archive.  Unfortunately, though, I have been stymied by "oops, we don't have that page" type messages with a good 90% of what I've tried to access from the TWoP forums.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Bastet

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I can wait till the new year for a re-watch. 

 

I was still reading the WW forums at TWoP so I submitted it to the wayback machine site for archiving when the closing was announced. 

Edited December 18, 2014 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[AriAu]

Those were good times ... we can try to recreate the magic, however, it was a moment in time ... hard to recreate.  We can have fun trying tho!

 

We are going to need a whole lot more people to do it justice and we will need Deborah and LTG and POTES and some of those other moderators. Plus, knowing what will happen will make it harder to less fun.

 

There was also someone at Yahoo's Josh and Donna related site that did an amazing analysis on not just content but also the directorial touches like where people were positioned and stuff like that. Did not find it until Season 7 and it was amazing.

[HyeChaps]

TWoP discussions got under Sorkin's skin, hence the Lemon Lyman storyline.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

There was also someone at Yahoo's Josh and Donna related site that did an amazing analysis on not just content but also the directorial touches like where people were positioned and stuff like that. Did not find it until Season 7 and it was amazing.

 

Do you remember what they were called?

[eyebleach]

I am so down for a rewatch!  Sign me up!

[AriAu]

Do you remember what they were called?

 

There is a Yahoo Group called JD Talk. It is a closed group, but if you request, the moderator will let you in.

Then search for Shelley an Bullet Points-it is tough to find them and I have never found the old ones..

[PeterPirate]

I don't know whether President Obama's lifting of sanctions against Cuba is a good thing or a bad thing. 

 

But it did make me think about 90 Miles Away. And I'm a little pissed off about that.

 

 

 

Also, I'm a former TWoPer and am down for a re-watch.

Edited December 21, 2014 by PeterPirate

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

There is a Yahoo Group called JD Talk. It is a closed group, but if you request, the moderator will let you in.

Then search for Shelley an Bullet Points-it is tough to find them and I have never found the old ones..

 

Found it!

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

I'm doing my rewatch right now. Much to the annoyance of my family. Wednesday nights were silent nights in my house during the 7 years TWW aired. Ask my daughter what happens when you argue with Daddy during a live episode. Not cool.

 

However, I moved to PA 7 1/2 years ago and last time I did a rewatch I realized that the small town I moved to was a filming location for Twenty Hours in America Part 2. They were supposed to be in Indiana getting on a train when in fact, they were in Bridgeville, PA. When I realized it, my heart swelled a little and I don't want to leave this town and my little connection to TWW through it. I always smile when I drive down that street.

 

I wish I had lived here when they filmed. I would have signed up to be an extra or been a stalker off to the side getting me a good look at Josh.

 

If you want to confirm, google Railroad Street, Bridgeville, PA and do the earth view. If you see the Beer Warehouse, go right. The scene is shot coming from the south. The little railroad office shown on TWW to the left as they drive up was in fact a Library until just recently. It's a caboose that held the Children's section. And that concludes my TWW trivia for tonight.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Mom2twoNonna2one

[Moose135]

I'm in the middle of my annual marathon of TWW Christmas episodes. Damn, Sorkin can write some moving Christmas episodes - here, Sports Night, Studio 60, they all had some classics.  It's been a while since I've watched any TWW, and I'm reminded again how amazing this show was, and how much I miss it.  I'm also reminded why 'In Excelsis Deo' is about my favorite episode of the series. Toby was always my favorite character, and as a veteran, the story of the homeless vet hits close to home. I always have a hard time getting through this exchange between the President and Toby:

 

"Toby, if we start pulling strings like this, you don't think every homeless veteran would come out of the woodwork?"

"I can only hope, sir."

 

Anyway, Happy Holidays to all, and remember, nothing says Christmas like animal fables in iambic verse...

[PeterPirate]

Yo Yo Ma rules!

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

Millie Grant from Scandal is on West Wing 5:10 The Stormy Present as the representative from North Carolina fighting Connecticut for the stole Bill of Rights.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

As well as Jeff Perry (Cyrus) was in Privateers and Kate Burton (VP Sally Langston) was in Slow News Day. I'm starting to think Shonda Rhimes looked to The West Wing to fill her cast. Not a bad move, IMO.

 

Chief Webber is in Full Disclosure. We're starting to get a serious game of 6 degrees between Shonda and Aaron, but, we really only need 1 or 2 degrees.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Mom2twoNonna2one

[BizBuzz]

HA!  Now that you mentioned it ... Taye Diggs was Special Agent Wesley Davis (Zoey's detail) and Sam Bennett in Private Practice.  HA!

[PeterPirate]

And Clark Gregg, who made the leap from playing Agent Mike Casper to Agent Phil Coulson. 

[AriAu]

And Deborah Cahn, who wrote The Supremes and many of the best post-Sokin episodes (Drought Conditions, The Cold, Requiem), writes and is a producer on Grey's.

[theredhead77]

I watched TWW during its original run but haven't watched it since. When it started I was in my early 20s and it was my alterna-life getting me through the events of present. I even wrote in Bartlet for POTUS one election.

 

I started my own re-watch. I am up to episode 11 and so far every single one has resulted in a visit of the onion ninjas. 

 

I'm currently watching Take Out the Trash Day (with the hate crimes bill) and I wonder what this Administration would be saying about gay rights now.

Edited January 6, 2015 by theredhead77

[AriAu]

so far every single one has resulted in a visit of the onion ninjas.

 

I take it that is the same as when it gets a little dusty in the room when I am watching!

Yes, TWW can have that affect on me as well.