All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[AriAu]

Quote

Rewatching the early seasons, I'm annoyed knowing what comes later with John Hoynes. Not the affair, because I get that things like that happen. But the storyline with his book, re-entry as a sleazy politician, the CJ ONS, etc.  I really, really liked early seasons Hoynes.  Even when he resigned, he did it fairly honorably. He admitted he made a mistake, and he resigned.  When they brought him back, all they were lacking was giving him a mustache to twirl while he laughed evilly.

Let's see, what happened in between.....no more Aaron Sorkin! A lot of the characters got changed for the worse after Season 4.  I think it is why I had no trouble with them bringing on Santos and Vinnick etc...

[Lillybee]

I am rewatching the end of this series because I needed the thought that a campaign can be run by decent people.

[Melancholy]

So, I'm completely obsessed with the musical Hamilton. I think it's been well publicized that Lin Manuel Miranda is a Wingnut and he credited TWW as a major inspiration. It delights me that my still reigning champ favorite TV show inspired such a brilliant, transformative musical. Listening to the soundtrack, I noted the refrain "I'm looking for a mind at work" (a big part of The Schuyler Sisters) was said by Sam to Ainsley in The US Poet Laureate. Eliza tells Hamilton that he only needs to come home to make her happy like Jed to Ellie. 

[Guest]

@Melancholy, I have to ask- are we the same person? Do I have a second id I post under and forgot? We seem to watch the same shows and now share a Hamilton obsession?

[Melancholy]

Lol, I've found my people! :-)

[twinkietwin94]

I think I need to find the Hamilton soundtrack bc I haven't had a chance to see it yet and I really want to but it's not anywhere around and we can afford to travel to see it besides I'd have to drug hubby to get him there lol

[Guest]

On 3/25/2017 at 8:03 PM, twinkietwin94 said:

I think I need to find the Hamilton soundtrack bc I haven't had a chance to see it yet and I really want to but it's not anywhere around and we can afford to travel to see it besides I'd have to drug hubby to get him there lol

If you have Amazon Prime or Spotify, you can listen to it for free.  

I would suggest listening to the whole thing in order the first 2 listens or so to familiarize yourself with it.  

[AriAu]

Quote

Eliza tells Hamilton that he only needs to come home to make her happy like Jed to Ellie

Actually first like Casey McCall to his son Charlie McCall in the Sports Night episode "What Kind of Day has it Been"...where ever have I heard that title before!!

Quote

 would suggest listening to the whole thing in order the first 2 listens or so to familiarize yourself with it.

That is assuming that you don't "need" to re-listen to several of the songs as soon as they end to make sure you caught all the lines. Schuyler Sisters always requires an immediate re-listen

[Guest]

@A.Ham liked my post. I'm so excited!

Sorry- I'll try to get back on topic now.

Your Obedient Servant,

[A.Ham]

On March 31, 2017 at 8:57 PM, deaja said:

@A.Ham liked my post. I'm so excited!

 

Of course I did! I, too, have found my people! Even if it's less than a handful of us, hi there :)

Topic? I got nothing right now.

[betsyboo]

On 3/24/2017 at 1:27 PM, Melancholy said:

So, I'm completely obsessed with the musical Hamilton. I think it's been well publicized that Lin Manuel Miranda is a Wingnut and he credited TWW as a major inspiration. It delights me that my still reigning champ favorite TV show inspired such a brilliant, transformative musical. Listening to the soundtrack, I noted the refrain "I'm looking for a mind at work" (a big part of The Schuyler Sisters) was said by Sam to Ainsley in The US Poet Laureate. Eliza tells Hamilton that he only needs to come home to make her happy like Jed to Ellie. 

 

On 3/24/2017 at 8:21 PM, deaja said:

@Melancholy, I have to ask- are we the same person? Do I have a second id I post under and forgot? We seem to watch the same shows and now share a Hamilton obsession?

How did I only just find you, my soul sisters??? Am listening to it right now at work. Have listened to all 2.5 hours of it 5 out of 7 days every week for past year and a half. Just LAST WEEK noticed something in a line I had never noticed before.

If I may brag, I saw the orig cast last June and legit sobbed from beginning to end. I needed an EMT and a banana bag when it was over.

Edit: I'm sure I'm telling you things you already know, but if you haven't already lost days down the rabbit hole at Genius, then do so IMMEDIATELY. https://genius.com/albums/Lin-manuel-miranda/Hamilton-original-broadway-cast-recording

Good luck!

Edited April 12, 2017 by betsyboo
added link

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

 

How did I only just find you, my soul sisters??? Am listening to it right now at work. Have listened to all 2.5 hours of it 5 out of 7 days every week for past year and a half. Just LAST WEEK noticed something in a line I had never noticed before.

If I may brag, I saw the orig cast last June and legit sobbed from beginning to end. I needed an EMT and a banana bag when it was over.

Edit: I'm sure I'm telling you things you already know, but if you haven't already lost days down the rabbit hole at Genius, then do so IMMEDIATELY. https://genius.com/albums/Lin-manuel-miranda/Hamilton-original-broadway-cast-recording

Good luck!

So insanely jealous.   And I think I've read all those genius notes 5-10 times by now! :)  

I'll admit, when I first got sucked into the Hamilton fan universe, I didn't know that LMM was a big West Wing fan, but it made it so much better when I found out!

[betsyboo]

18 minutes ago, deaja said:

So insanely jealous.   And I think I've read all those genius notes 5-10 times by now! :) 

Spend all the money. SO WORTH IT. I get that that is easy to say and not everyone can, but if you have the means and are close enough to the tour or NYC, SPEND IT. I would have gladly dropped $2000 the next day to go again that night. It was one of the greatest experiences of my life. The entire thing - music, production, actors - is a phenomenon, but it is also life-changing. For me anyway. I have such a hard time trying to explain that to my brothers or people who don't like theater. To live in this day and age with a person that genius and that willing to lay his heart on the line - it's magic. The layers! The nuance! The "chess, not checkers!"  I'm with Michelle Obama - the best piece of art I've ever seen. (And I've seen both Patti Lupone AND Barbra! :-) )  I'm someone who normally likes happy musicals where they break into song in the street for no reason. When this was at the Public, my niece saw it on a field trip and was beside herself. I knew who LMM was from In The Heights, but Hamilton didn't interest me at all. She stayed on me, and I paid attention to the news, etc, when it debuted on Broadway. Then I thought - well, I guess I'd better get on this bandwagon! And I am so, so, so glad I did. The fact that it is making both theater AND history entertaining to kids makes me all happy and tingly.

It helps that I live in the city where much of the first act occurs. :-)

[Guest]

I'm going to reply in the Small Talk thread as it's getting less and less about TWW. :)

[Melancholy]

Sometimes Tumblr gets it right. This series of mashups between TWW and Hamilton is one of those times. 

Also these mashups of TWW and Game of Thrones. http://the-westeros-wing.tumblr.com/

Edited April 12, 2017 by Melancholy

[Melancholy]

Further adding to TWW/Hamilton discussion. Lin Manuel cast a Broadway musical version of West Wing. I adore Broadway musical theater but I'm pretty ignorant of much of the players because I don't have the money or location to follow. He didn't let the TWW players who proved their Broadway musical chops keep their roles (Kristin Chenowith, Allison Janney) to further the exercise. From what I know, it looks awesome. Love Sutton Foster as Amy and Laura Bell Bundy as Ainsley and Megan Hilty as Annabeth since Kristen can't reprise her role and Nathan Lane as Bruno Gianelli and Lin Manuel himself as Santos. I don't get why he cast Mandy Patankin as CJ's dad, deliberately filling a minor role to include the amazing Mandy, instead of just casting him as Toby because I think that's perfect casting. But I'm not familiar with the actor Lin Manuel did use as Toby. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Melancholy

[BW Manilowe]

On 4/20/2017 at 10:39 AM, Melancholy said:

Further adding to TWW/Hamilton discussion. Lin Manuel cast a Broadway musical version of West Wing. I adore Broadway musical theater but I'm pretty ignorant of much of the players because I don't have the money or location to follow. He didn't let the TWW players who proved their Broadway musical chops keep their roles (Kristin Chenowith, Allison Janney) to further the exercise. From what I know, it looks awesome. Love Sutton Foster as Amy and Laura Bell Bundy as Ainsley and Megan Hilty as Annabeth since Kristen can't reprise her role and Nathan Lane as Bruno Gianelli and Lin Manuel himself as Santos. I don't get why he cast Mandy Patankin as CJ's dad, deliberately filling a minor role to include the amazing Mandy, instead of just casting him as Toby because I think that's perfect casting. But I'm not familiar with the actor Lin Manuel did use as Toby.

Sorry for the late comment. This is the actor Lin-Manuel cast as Toby: Chip Zien

[BW Manilowe]

And on other matters... In "The White House Pro-Am", Jed & Abbey are having a fight, about her showing support for an old boyfriend who's a possible/likely nominee for Fed Chair (among other things), & Jed says to her "Just stand there in your wrongness and be wrong...". That saying is showing up right now on  T-shirts from places like those sponsored ads on Facebook. However, 1 place has the shirt saying "sit" instead of "stand", & they don't attribute the quote as being from TWW or anywhere else; it's as if the shirt designer made up the quote themselves.

Hopefully this will take you to the first page of shirts on Google search. If it doesn't, apologies.

Edited July 3, 2018 by BW Manilowe
To add a comma.

[UYI]

Happy Thanksgiving, Wingnuts!

 

[Moose135]

On 11/22/2018 at 10:45 PM, UYI said:

Happy Thanksgiving, Wingnuts!

If I cook stuffing inside the turkey, is there a chance I could kill my guests? I'm not saying that's necessarily a deal-breaker.

[Guest]

I’ve currently been rewatching again (as opposed to just watching random episodes) and I just have to say- wow, this show is good! I’ve also been listening to the West Wing Weekly podcasts and it really enhances everything. I’m not much of a podcast person, but this one may be converting me!

[Aethera]

This topic replaces the old The West Wing forum which has been vaulted at the location below:

http://forums.previously.tv/forum/459-the-west-wing-v/

[PeterPirate]

Oh dear.  We've been vaulted.  

No matter.  The West Wing is still the greatest TV show in history of TV shows.  

Edited January 16, 2019 by PeterPirate

[ProudMary]

Whaaaa?  It looked like we had made the cut.  Very disappointed, PTV.  

[Guest]

On 1/15/2019 at 9:33 PM, PeterPirate said:

The West Wing is still the greatest TV show in history of TV shows

Truth

[PeterPirate]

West Wing Quotes

 

From Indians In The Lobby:  

CJ - How many treaties have we signed with the Munsee Indians?
Maggie - Six.
CJ - How many have we revoked?
Maggies - Six.
CJ -  What were the Munsees doing in 1778?
Maggie - Fighting in George Washington's army.
CJ -  And why aren't you in New York anymore?
Maggie - Because he marched us to Wisconsin.

 

And, from The Stormy Present:

Lassiter - Go see Lincoln and listen.  

Edited January 21, 2019 by PeterPirate

[PeterPirate]

West Wing Quote:

From He Shall From Time To Time:  

Sam - You know, here's the thing.  We haven't been invited yet.
Toby - What do you mean?
Sam - Technically, the Speaker of the House invites the President to deliver the State of the Union.
Toby - And we haven't been invited yet?
Sam - Not yet.

[Guest]

I really don’t like Two Cathedrals. Bartlet’s speech to God drives me crazy- I should not have to look up Latin on the internet to figure out what was said during an episode. Also, he comes across as such an arrogant prick in so much of the MS storyline, especially then. And I get he’s grieving, but smoking and dropping his cigarette butt in the National Cathedral? So so wrong. But the line where he looks back at “God” and tells Him “you get Hoynes!” like a threat is just laughably dumb.

[AriAu]

Quote

I really don’t like Two Cathedrals.

Also not one of my favorites...but you know who loves it, Aaron Sorkin.

Sorkin was on the Bill Simmons podcast last week (very good listen) and Bill said The West Wing was full of lots of "moments" and asked AS what was his favorite moment and the one he came up with was the "moment" in Two Cathedrals during the "Brothers in Arms" sequence. AS said that he heard the music while driving around trying to clear his head and realized it was the perfect way to end the episode.

By the way, he spends much of the episode praising the acting and the directing and especially Tommy Schlamme.

[Moose135]

12 hours ago, deaja said:

I really don’t like Two Cathedrals. Bartlet’s speech to God drives me crazy

That one of my favorite episodes, and I love that scene - what other show would have the audacity to have its lead character curse at God, in Latin, in the middle of a cathedral?

 

12 hours ago, deaja said:

And I get he’s grieving, but smoking and dropping his cigarette butt in the National Cathedral?

That's a call to the flashback scene with his father earlier in the episode:

Quote

DR. BARTLET Mr. Spence found this cigarette butt on the floor in the aisle of the chapel.

JED People shouldn't put their cigarettes out in the chapel, Mr. Spence.

DR. BARTLET Well, people shouldn't be smoking in the chapel, I think is my point, Jed. Do you understand what I'm saying?

 

It's an act of defiance against his father, not an insult aimed at the National Cathedral.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Moose135

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

 

It's an act of defiance against his father, not an insult aimed at the National Cathedral.

I get that but it is still disrespectful no matter his intent. Like I said, I find him to be an arrogant tool in much of the MS storyline and in that episode in particular, I find him to be insufferable.

[PeterPirate]

I don't like the whole hands-in-the-pockets thing that appears out of nowhere in this episode, never to be seen again.

 

Season 2 should have ended with "Yeah, I'm going to run, and I'm going to win."

[Bastet]

46 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I don't like the whole hands-in-the-pockets thing that appears out of nowhere in this episode, never to be seen again.

 

Season 2 should have ended with "Yeah, I'm going to run, and I'm going to win."

I agree that the hands-in-pockets gesture being this huge tell of his yet having never been shown to us before (and never incorporating it again) was a stretch, but disagree on some anvil-icious "I'm going to run and win" ending being better than stating his intention via that gesture.  It was more powerful visually, and nice for us to know the answer when the press - and all but "our" characters - didn't.  And, most of all, I liked that they answered the question for us, rather than making it a cliffhanger (not much of one, since there's no show if he doesn't run, but still), and just left us to wait and see how he phrased it and what the reaction/fallout was.

As for Bartlet's rant in the church, I'm neither bothered nor enthralled by it.  You can't get me invested in a storyline where someone, say, puts their faith in a benevolent unicorn and then says, "WTF, unicorn?!" when reality hits them, but his Catholic faith and his opinion of/treatment by his father (which worked together in his formative years and beyond) were always a big influence on his life, so while I'm not "OMG, how powerful/daring or how awful!" I certainly follow his thought process, given the backstory, and appreciate the emotion of the moment, even though I'm not swept away by it to the extent the show wants.

[Bastet]

I don't remember (and am too lazy to check) if this article was posted in the Media thread of the now-vaulted forum, but I just came across it while looking for something else -- About five years ago, The Wire ranked nearly 115 WW characters, the list consisting mostly of those who appeared in two or more episodes but including a few memorable one-offs. 

They had me at hello, ranking C.J. number one and opening with, "One of the great mysteries of Hollywood—nay, of life—is that Aaron Sorkin is a fairly condescending and certainly problematic writer of women. And yet so goes C.J."  Some key characters are ranked significantly differently than they are on the average list of WW characters, and I agree with a number of those surprising slots, so I found the list particularly interesting.  (I wouldn't have ranked Donna that low, but I enjoyed reading along and realizing, "Hey, Donna hasn't made the cut yet."  And I really like seeing so many other female characters ranked highly.  Also, the inevitable ire many will have for how highly Amy is ranked and how she's described amuses me in advance.  [I wouldn't put her that high, not even top ten, but I agree with their general sentiment about her.]) 

Here's the list, as republished in The Atlantic.

[Guest]

From that list

Quote

Her entire backstory as a Hollywood publicist who doesn’t seem to know much about Hollywood or publicity never made one lick of sense.

This reminds me of a thought I had a couple weeks ago. It bugs me in the episode where we see her fired from her publicist job (ITSOTG I believe) her client asked about the Golden Globe nominations from that morning and she said she didn’t even know they were that morning- seriously? I would have fired her just for that! But I’ll never buy that a semi-competent publicist wouldn’t know and be awake for the nomination announcements. And C.J. was way more than semi-competent!

[Guest]

Okay, that list is ridiculous with how low Josh is ranked. Below Nancy McNally? Ainsley? Vinick? Amy? Zoey? Fitzwallace? No way. 

So basically I agreed with the top two, maybe top 4, though I would likely swap Leo and Toby.

[PeterPirate]

That list leaves off a lot of noteworthy characters.  The most glaring omission by far is Stanley Keyworth.  

So I took an hour or so to scroll the show's IMDB list of characters and I came up with the following ones who appeared in at least two episodes that I thought worth mentioning (if only because they had enough lines to be recognizable):

Claypool 
Efram Zahavy 
Nizar Farad 
Matt Skinner 
Robert Royce 
Annie (Vinick campaign aide)  
Mike Gordon 
Charles Frost 
Shira Galit 
Alana Waterman 
Darren Gibson 
Lauren Shelby 
Lauren Chin 
Lauren Romano 
Steve Atwood 
Lewis Berryhill 
Max Lobell 
Roger Tribbey 
Malti Chakrabarty 
Matt Hunt 
Doran Mazar 
Anthony Marcus 
Jack Sosa 
 

And the following notable one-episode characters:

Morris Tolliver 
Rhonda Sachs 
Bobby Zane 
Rakim Ali 
Will Sawyer 
D.W. Newman 
Meeshel Anders 
Lisa Shureborn 
Lilli Mays 
Jules Ziegler 
Hogan Cregg 
Chris Carrick 
Rabbi Glassman 
Kevin Kahn 
Dr. Bartlet (Jed's father)
Victor Campos 
Penn Jillette 
Yosh Takahashi 
Ludmilla Koss 
Thomas Cavanaugh 
Ricky Rafferty 
Sherri Wexler 
Marion Cotesworth-Haye 
Don Butler 
Seth Gillette 
Franklin Hollis 
Abdul Shareef 
Nikolai Ivanovich 
Vassily Kononov 
Winifred Hooper 
Jack Lone Feather 
Maggie Morningstar Charles 
Tyler (Aide from 20 Hours In America)
Stephanie Gault 
Yo-Yo Ma 
Jon Bon Jovi 
 

[bybrandy]

I mean I don't agree with everything on this list but it is pretty good.  And because the Josh and Donna thing was so, so, so, so not my thing I kind of like their lower placements although both should be higher than they are.  But whoever wrote this list?  My kind of people.   

[Kohola3]

On 1/23/2019 at 1:15 PM, Moose135 said:

That one of my favorite episodes, and I love that scene - what other show would have the audacity to have its lead character curse at God, in Latin, in the middle of a cathedral?

Ditto.  That whole scene just blew me away.  It was so West Wing, no other show would do such a thing.

[Driad]

from "He Shall from Time to Time:

President Josiah Bartlet: I came to this hallowed chamber one year ago on a mission, to restore the American dream for all our people as we gaze at the vast horizon of possibilities open to us... in the 321st century. Wow, that was ambitious of me, wasn't it?

Sam Seaborn: Leo.

Leo McGarry: Let's take a break.

President Josiah Bartlet: We meant stronger here right?

Sam Seaborn: What's it say?

President Josiah Bartlet: I'm proud to report our country's stranger than it was a year ago.

Sam Seaborn: That's a typo.

President Josiah Bartlet: Could go either way.

[BW Manilowe]

From The Hollywood Reporter: Allison Will Be Among the Presenters At This Year’s Academy Awards

The Academy Awards “tradition”, if you will, in recent years has been for the “outgoing” Best Lead/Supporting Actor to present the award to the “incoming” Best Lead/Supporting Actress & the “outgoing” Best Lead/Supporting Actress to present the award to the “incoming” Best Lead/Supporting Actor. 

Earlier in the week word was going around that Allison hadn’t been invited to do that (& apparently neither had the other 3 Oscar-winning actors from last year), because the Academy supposedly wanted to go “another way” & “get bigger names as presenters”. Allison even posted about it on her social media, saying it (presumably meaning not getting to present) broke her heart—then she quickly deleted the post.

And now it looks like the Academy has changed its mind, according to the linked article, & all 4 of last year’s Oscar winners for acting will be presenting at this year’s Oscars. What’s less clear cut is, will they continue the tradition of presenting the acting Oscars, or will they be presenting in other categories? 

At least we’ll get to see Allison. Don’t forget to watch!

Edited February 9, 2019 by BW Manilowe
To fix spacing and remove a capital letter from a word.

[ProudMary]

Why is The West Wing not appearing in the TV Show Index since the site transition?

[Moose135]

9 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Why is The West Wing not appearing in the TV Show Index since the site transition?

It is - it is listed in the "Other Dramas" group in the "Dramas" category, but it is listed alphabetically under "T" for "The West Wing".

[PeterPirate]

I prefer to think that we are in the Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue.

[ProudMary]

5 hours ago, Moose135 said:

It is - it is listed in the "Other Dramas" group in the "Dramas" category, but it is listed alphabetically under "T" for "The West Wing".

This alphabetical master list is where I'm talking about.  I don't see it at all here.
https://forums.previously.tv/shows/

[Moose135]

5 hours ago, ProudMary said:

This alphabetical master list is where I'm talking about.  I don't see it at all here.
https://forums.previously.tv/shows/

Sorry, I hadn't seen that page before.  You should probably send a message to the mods to look at it.

[Guest]

It’s showing up now. It was a temporary thing while the database was re-indexing. 

I’m still doing my rewatch, and I’m finding season 4 to drag more than I remember.

[PeterPirate]

Six Degrees of The West Wing

Peter Tork was in The Monkees with

Davy Jones, who took the time to write CJ a letter.  

[Guest]

Unpopular opinion, I’m sure, but I really think Donna should have been fired for her actions in Inaguaration: Part 2. To call C.J. to lie about being the one to give a quote when she was hoping all along Josh would know it wasn’t her? The whole thing was bizarre but unprofessional and showed a lack of trustworthiness. I never understood why it was played like she had been mistreated there.

And sitting around in a ball gown pouting about not being at the party you decided to skip? Ugh.

[ProudMary]

It looks like the world could use Lord John Marbury right about now.