S08.E10: Trouble On The Family Tree

[RCharter]

 

• Thanks for reminding me about that scene with Cynthia and Noelle. I found it amusing yet sad that Noelle had a "one strike" policy with cheating boyfriends but Cynthia keeps trying to stay with Peter the cheater.
• If I were Todd, I'd make sure that cheque from Phaedra cleared or wasn't "accidentally" cancelled.

 

 

Yeah, what "hard work"? If memory serves, I've only seen her meeting with her "assistants" and half-listening to what they were doing and telling her what needed to be done.

 

I especially appreciated that staying with a man who cheats on you, mooches off of you, and embarrasses you in public is something you learn to do when you get older and more mature....because you know...anything just so that you have a husband...

 

At this point Todd should only take a cashiers check.

 

Oh Porsha actually meets with "the hired help?"  I thought the THOT was much too good for that.

[ZaldamoWilder]

I had this post for breakfast this morning.

 

Whether or not she wanted a "closed" adoption, that's not what she got, and there was no completely separate loving family to run back to when her birth mother didn't want to know her. Kenya was raised right alongside the rest of her family. Her own sister raised her for a number of years, so no, she doesn't have the right to just pretend like the girl was given up in secrecy and doesn't exist except as a memory. If that's what she wanted, then when she became of age, when Kenya was still too young to understand, she should have jetted. Not stuck around behaving like she lived in some alternate universe, fucking up some little girl's world who was even more an innocent in the whole fucked-up deal.

 

And WTF with those adults - including the sainted Aunt Lori - who left her exposed to that psychosis?? Why would they let a baby/child/young adult be around a woman they let be known was her mother, and not protect her from that shit?? That should never have happened. And if it's true about her mother's career, how dare she go into social work and spend her life working out other people's issues looking past the plank in her own eye?

 

and washed it down with this one.

 

Don't contact me when I'm in the spotlight you money grabbing trashbox. I have never thought so many people would make up any excuse for child abandonment from a female, but they won't do it for a male. Interesting. Oh lets find an excuse for why they put the baby in the microwave, excuse for this, excuse for that, families fault, males fault. No responsibility.

 

They were delicious.

 

 

Kenya's situation is so very sad.
She was rejected for being too dark, conceived out of wedlock and for her father being of a lower social class status.
Yet, she thrived as best as she could.
She is truly a survivor, IMO.
As far as the mother is concerned, how can she live with herself???
Does she have any children besides Kenya?

 

I was alternating between RH and golden globes so I missed some stuff.  Word? No! Word?  I think the one that would shock me the most is colorism.  She (and I) was born in the Stokley Carmichael, Angela Davis, say it loud I'm black and I'm proud bubble.  If ever there was a time to be a brown baby....   If this is true it just goes to show how woefully inequipped everyone in that family was to deal with the circumstances.   

 

Wirewrap, I was willing to give Lori the don't put me in the middle benefit of the doubt too, but in that preview, when she started loudtalking Kenya about having the right to show up on Patricia's doorstep?  Giiiiiiiirlll.  It has been Patricia's prerogative not to engage with her daughter and - except for you know, that one time when she won a national pageant on the tv - one which has exercised for 45 years.   But I will be gottdamed if my mother's sister hollers at me about what I don't have the right to seek.  Aunt Lori was cool as a fan before last night but that shit there had me blown.  Go stand next to your lobotomized sister and the rest of your nutty ass emotionally mute kin.  I can't.

 

I get what all of you are saying about hoping she's able to just disregard her the way she's been disregarded and move on but I can't imagine it being that simple.  It's her whole life's mystery, I don't see how she can ever stop wanting an answer, even if Patricia's answer is I don't know why I can't talk to you I just can't.   Rape t would more easily explain the immersion in denial as Kenya said, as a teen or young woman of 20 or 30.  Now you're 60 and for fucks sake, an educator, seriously?  Say something.  Anything.

[imjagain]

Kenya's situation is so very sad.

She was rejected for being too dark , conceived out of wedlock and for her father being of a lower social class status.

Yet, she thrived as best as she could.

She is truly a survivor, IMO.

As far as the mother is concerned, how can she live with herself???

Does she have any children besides Kenya?

What? Where did this come from?

[Primetimer]

This week it's all in the family, and better because of it.

Read the story

[Ubiquitous]

Porsha and Lauren ... it might be time to separate work from family. It seems like the lines are very blurred on both sides - that they're each asking stuff of the other that they wouldn't ask someone to whom they weren't related, and it might be easier for them both if Porsha got an assistant where there was no personal relationship. 

Didn't Lauren tell Porsha she was mainly sticking around b/c she was concerned about her sister's hands-off attitude about her alleged businesses making her an easy target to get ripped off by her hired managers?

[WireWrap]

  

Wirewrap, I was willing to give Lori the don't put me in the middle benefit of the doubt too, but in that preview, when she started loudtalking Kenya about having the right to show up on Patricia's doorstep?  Giiiiiiiirlll.  It has been Patricia's prerogative not to engage with her daughter and - except for you know, that one time when she won a national pageant on the tv - one which has exercised for 45 years.   But I will be gottdamed if my mother's sister hollers at me about what I don't have the right to seek.  Aunt Lori was cool as a fan before last night but that shit there had me blown.  Go stand next to your lobotomized sister and the rest of your nutty ass emotionally mute kin.  I can't.

 

I get what all of you are saying about hoping she's able to just disregard her the way she's been disregarded and move on but I can't imagine it being that simple.  It's her whole life's mystery, I don't see how she can ever stop wanting an answer, even if Patricia's answer is I don't know why I can't talk to you I just can't.   Rape t would more easily explain the immersion in denial as Kenya said, as a teen or young woman of 20 or 30.  Now you're 60 and for fucks sake, an educator, seriously?  Say something.  Anything.

As I said, I will wait to see/hear the entire conversation between Kenya and Lori because Bravo LOVES to bait and switch us through editing with these previews all the time. LOL Something tells me that Kenya put Lori in the middle of this, maybe by getting Patricia's address from her without her knowledge BUT I will wait and see.

I agree it would be better if Patricia let Kenya know HER side of the story, either in a phone call or even in a letter but that isn't going to happen. Kenya needs to get some heavy duty therapy to get past this, something that should have happened long ago, in her teens, and all the adults in her life should have gotten it for her back then.  JMO

[ZaldamoWilder]

Didn't Lauren tell Porsha she was mainly sticking around b/c she was concerned about her sister's hands-off attitude about her alleged businesses making her an easy target to get ripped off by her hired managers?

 

She didn't express it quite as articulately as you have lol.  I think she said something like who else is gonna work for you for free and not steal your cash.  Which made me think that before we get really pissed at Lauren's sense of entitlement can we find out if the girl even draws a salary?  I mean if you're only working for perks and then the perks suck, yeah there's going to be a problem.

 

You mind nudged me - about the reunion tshirts having Kenya's Family Reunion on them.  I meant say the reason that wasn't weird was because the tshirt thing itself isn't unique, but black family reunions are normally one side or the other so it's ordinarily the family's name on the shirt.   This was both sides of Kenya's family who are unrelated to each other.  As self absorbed as it probably looked, it made sense as both sides are related to her. 

[Petunia13]

Lauren's apartment was a bit strange. It almost looked rented by production or something.

[LIMOM]

What? Where did this come from?

My confused brain.

[RCharter]

She didn't express it quite as articulately as you have lol.  I think she said something like who else is gonna work for you for free and not steal your cash.  Which made me think that before we get really pissed at Lauren's sense of entitlement can we find out if the girl even draws a salary?  I mean if you're only working for perks and then the perks suck, yeah there's going to be a problem.

 

 

OK, I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was thinking that.

 

Because, if Lauren isn't even drawing a salary, and has to listen to Porsha complain while she flies first class and drives around in a Bentley that puts a whole new spin on it.  I could absolutely see a situation where Porsha has no idea that her businesses are losing money, or not making enough to pay her sister any salary.  Porsha almost never mentions her businesses on the show, and both are already in super saturated fields.  So, I can see where the businesses may not be pulling in the money she thought they would.  For someone so dedicated to promoting her business, I don't think I've heard the name of her hair company, but maybe twice.  And I've never heard anything about her lingerie line.  Cynthia managed to get more promotion for her glasses.

[LIMOM]

As far as Aunt Lori, she has sided with her sister,IMO.

Since nothing is really known about Kenya's mom real motives for rejecting her over and over, Aunt Lori needs to somehow explain her loyalty to her sister.( only because she is on the show,IMO)

[drivethroo]

LAUREN & PORSHA:  While Porsha may be insensitive, oversensitive and a wee bit jealous, Lauren is trying to have it both ways: She wants to be able to slack off because she's pregnant but whenever Porsha brings up the suggestion of replacing her, she throws a guilt trip over "who's gonna be there for you & not rip you off?"

 

Lauren, you can't have it both ways.  Either you work ...or you don't.  It's just that simple.  Millions of pregnant women get up and go to work every day and they are tired, and ill, and vomity, and sluggish but they go to work because they know if they don't, they won't have a job anymore.  The job won't fire them for being pregnant, because that's illegal.  But if they just aren't doing their job?

 

Either step your game up or get a temporary assistant for Porsha while you're out on pregnancy leave.  Porsha needs to nip this in the bud NOW because after the baby is born the excuse will be she can't do this or that because of the baby.  At a certain point she's not going to be able to fly with Porsha anyway, whether it's coach or 1st class so Porsha really needs to be thinking about hiring a replacement for Lauren. Doesn't need to be permanent but a temporary reliable replacement.

 

KENYA:

 

If Kenya's dad/parents didn't consent to the adoption, then Kenya's mom couldn't have given her up for adoption. If he didn't know about that, that would be one thing, but he DID know about the pregnancy and he/his parents didn't consent.

 

Kenya's granddaddy was running the show and he made the choice crystal clear for her mom: Reject the baby or we will reject YOU.  No child wants to be rejected by their parents (ironic) so she did what she had to do.

 

I think the mistake was probably allowing Kenya to get near ANY member of her mom's family (including Aunt Lori) before she reached adulthood.  Kenya had to be repeatedly, publically rejected by the mom to not be rejected by her parents. 

 

But the mom had no problem claiming her when she won Miss USA. Girl, bye.

 

The cycle of rejection started with Kenya's granddaddy and no matter how much love she got from her dad's side or if she was put up for adoption or not, I think Kenya would've felt in the womb a sense of rejection transmitted from her mother and she probably would've turned out the same way.

 

 

[Yours Truly]

This is what I think Kenya's mom probably agreed to when she let her paternal grandmother take her instead of putting her up for adoption.  The woman just did not want a baby and didn't want to have a relationship with that baby....EVER!  Who knows, Kenya's dad could have forced her to have sex for all we know.  It happened a lot back in those days.  If she was only 15, she definitely wasn't ready to become a mother so she probably wasn't ready for sex either.  Maybe it was just too traumatizing for her.  I'm thinking it might have been better for Kenya to have never known who her mother was than to have to live with the out and out rejection over and over all of her life.  I'm not going to condemn her mother if she doesn't want to acknowledge Kenya.  She sounds like she might be mentally unstable to act the way she does when it comes to the child she gave birth to.  It's pretty obvious she didn't want to be confronted with cameras around.  I remember Kenya mentioning something about her mother trying to congratulate her when she became Miss USA and Kenya rejected her at that time.  Maybe then her mother vowed to never try again.  To me, there is just too little information from her side to condemn her at this point.  We only have Kenya's side of things.

 

 

Lauren is doing most of the work because she is being paid to do it.  It sounds to me like Lauren expects to get paid for nothing.  If she doesn't want to be Porsha's assistant anymore she needs to quit.  Especially if it is affecting her pregnancy.  But don't expect to be paid if you're not doing the work, even if it is for your sister.

Some places do have a certain amount of paid maternity leave. It's not legally required but considering she's family I don't see why such an arrangement wouldn't be available considering there are companies out there that pay non family members salary for a portion of their time out of the office. And let's not even get into a video I just saw about how there are plenty of countries out there including UK, China and I think Canada that offer up I think around 10-12 months of paid leave BY GOV. LAW. So anyway, just thought it was worth mentioning before we all get caught up wondering why a pregnant, working professional would expect certain considerations from her employer. Add that her employer is family. Yeah, I'm disappointed in Porsha's reaction.

[RCharter]

^^China?  That is interesting.  Like Zaldamo (sorry girl if I misspelled your name) said -- I'm still uncertain if Lauren is really drawing a salary at all.....

[Yours Truly]

There are also a lot of young parents who give their children up for adoption with the expectation that they will never see those children again.  Way back then when Kenya was born, there was a stigma put upon women who gave birth out of wedlock.  Sometimes even the church would turn their backs on them.  We don't know what kind of psychological damage was done to Kenya's mother.  Kenya's father even said that Kenya's maternal grandfather didn't even acknowledge her and treated him like he was invisible.  It sounds like Kenya's mom's dad did a number on her and got her mind messed up.  I found this link that explains a lot.  Don't know who the writer is.   http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthread.php/852222-ALLEGED-Photo-of-Kenya-Moore-s-Mother

And lets not forget how after all these years the women can't be left to live in peace. Why is Kenya the other person in this narrative that deserves human decency. I think it's sad that this woman did what we advocate women to do if they feel they can't provide a loving home for a child. She was willing to have another family raise her and instead the fathers family intervened which I think is absolutely acceptable but posed an even harder dilemma for this woman. She did what was best Kenya and yet she's continued to be tortured for it. I hate to say it but these type of nightmare situations are some of the things that run through the minds of woman contemplating ending a pregnancy. Even if there are other family member willing to raise the child.

[luckyroll3]

It also didn't seem like Lauren had an issue working, but rather that she wanted to work from home instead of commuting to the office.  When Porsha was angry over missing the package, it was because no one was at the office to sign for it.  I understand that Lauren is Porsha's employer, but the way Porsha was coming at her, with what seemed to be complete disdain that Lauren dared to get pregnant AND put herself and the pregnancy before Porsha's needs was just extremely off-putting.  It just came across that Lauren's entire life, even prior to becoming Porsha's assistant has been about accommodating Porsha.

Edited January 11, 2016 by luckyroll3

[Yours Truly]

1. Nope, nope, nope.  I don't care who you are, and how "closed" you wanted an adoption to be, you don't make a child suffer for your poor life decisions.  The only person not at fault for Patricia having underage sex is the child that was borne out of it.  If she truly never wanted to be bothered by a child, she should have never had sex.  If you're old enough to open up your legs and have sex, you're old enough to deal with the consequences of it.  And one of those reasonable consequences is that a child is going to show up later and want to know you.  You may not need to become their best friend and mother of the year, but its not going to kill you to take a few minutes to talk to that child.  Or at least have a phone conversation.  If Patricia really wanted to never be bothered again, she should have said no to Ronald's grandmother and just had the adoption.  These are choices Patricia made.  The last person who should pay is a child.  Yes, Kenya has the right to want to at least have a conversation with her mother.  She has done nothing to deserve to be straight up ignored for over 40 years.  But as someone said, her mother will reap what she sows.

 

Love how its assume a 15 yr old girl made those choices. Love how it's assumed that 15 yr olds aren't taken advantage of or manipulated on a regular basis. Love how it's assumed that all 15yrs that get pregnant are of the same caliber as those on 15 and pregnant. Life happens and everyone tries to get through the best they can.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Sheenieb]

 

I'm still uncertain if Lauren is really drawing a salary at all.....

I don't think she's working for free. I'm sure she would've thrown that out there when she dropped that Porsha makes her fly coach. When they had an argument last week, Porsha mentioned "don't you want a check?" I doubt she's balling, but I don't think she's a glorified intern, either. I agree that her apartment setup looked weird. Not so much inside, but the exterior looked like a motel.

[Ubiquitous]

Cynthia and Peter are still boring. They didn't even rate more than 25 seconds on a tropical sexytime vacay? That wasn't personal cam footage that they shared, imo. Seemed like hq video.

What does "HQ" mean? Now that I think about it, that "rec" framing that is sppsd to indicate the vidcam is running looked very post-production to me.

[RCharter]

And lets not forget how after all these years the women can't be left to live in peace. Why is Kenya the other person in this narrative that deserves human decency. I think it's sad that this woman did what we advocate women to do if they feel they can't provide a loving home for a child. She was willing to have another family raise her and instead the fathers family intervened which I think is absolutely acceptable but posed an even harder dilemma for this woman. She did what was best Kenya and yet she's continued to be tortured for it. I hate to say it but these type of nightmare situations are some of the things that run through the minds of woman contemplating ending a pregnancy. Even if there are other family member willing to raise the child.

That doesn't mean that there aren't consequences to your choices.  Patricia chose to have sex, its a choice that many 15 year old girls make.  She and Ronald made a decision that resulted in a child.  If anyone shouldn't have to suffer any consequences, its the person who made no decision in the matter.  Kenya didn't choose to be born out of Patricia's decision to have sex.  Just because what you've done is understandable doesn't mean that there aren't consequences.  You have to accept the consequences of your actions, and ignoring an innocent child 40 years later is hardly accepting the consequences of your actions, instead its a cruel move designed to make a child feel like less than nothing.  

[Ubiquitous]

I don't think she's working for free. I'm sure she would've thrown that out there when she dropped that Porsha makes her fly coach. When they had an argument last week, Porsha mentioned "don't you want a check?" I doubt she's balling, but I don't think she's a glorified intern, either. I agree that her apartment setup looked weird. Not so much inside, but the exterior looked like a motel.

Perhaps she was exaggerating when she said "working for free" to Porsha? I wouldn't be surprised if she were underpaid for her work.

[RCharter]

Love how its assume a 15 yr old girl made those choices. Love how it's assumed that 15 yr olds aren't taken advantage of or manipulated on a regular basis. Love how it's assumed that all 15yrs that get pregnant are of the same caliber as those on 15 and pregnant. Life happens and everyone tries to get through the best they can.

Love how its assume a 15 yr old girl made those choices. Love how it's assumed that 15 yr olds aren't taken advantage of or manipulated on a regular basis. Love how it's assumed that all 15yrs that get pregnant are of the same caliber as those on 15 and pregnant. Life happens and everyone tries to get through the best they can.

Yes, unless she claims she was raped, I'm going to assume that a 15 year old girl chose to have sex with a 16 year old boy.  I don't think a 16 year old boy is so much more sophisticated than a 15 year old girl as to be a master of manipulation.  Life does happen, and in life, if you've made a decision you have to suffer the consequences of that decision.  Whether the consequence is big or small -- and making a child suffer for your poor decision making at 15 isn't accepting the consequences of your decision, its making someone else a victim of your poor decision making.

I don't think she's working for free. I'm sure she would've thrown that out there when she dropped that Porsha makes her fly coach. When they had an argument last week, Porsha mentioned "don't you want a check?" I doubt she's balling, but I don't think she's a glorified intern, either. I agree that her apartment setup looked weird. Not so much inside, but the exterior looked like a motel.

Not for free per se, but if her paycheck is tied to the businesses Porsha has and those businesses aren't making any money than she may not be drawing a paycheck.  

[MMLEsq]

This might have been explained in a past season when Kenya first started ...

I have another question that also might have already been explained.  According to this website (http://www.eurweb.com/2013/12/is-kenya-moores-mother-why-shes-messed-up-shes-never-spoken-to-me/), Kenya's mother didn't even name her:  

"RadarOnline.com references an entry on Moore's Bravo blog, where she confessed to suffering "a great deal of pain" because of her mother, Patricia Moore.  After she was born, Kenya was sent to live with her paternal grandmother.  Pregnant with Kenya at 16-years-old, the reality TV show star revealed that her mother never named her." 

 

I wonder why then -- since the Moores didn't seem to want to be part of her life when she was born -- that she was given the last name Moore (her mother's name) rather than Grant (her father's name)??

Edited January 11, 2016 by MMLEsq

[Yours Truly]

^^China?  That is interesting.  Like Zaldamo (sorry girl if I misspelled your name) said -- I'm still uncertain if Lauren is really drawing a salary at all.....

US is the only developed country that doesn't have anything legal in place that covers financial assistance for pregnancies. Job security for 12 weeks is all they offer and that still doesn't protect a woman if she is unable to perform her duties for the majority of her pregnancy. Especially since a woman would want to save as much of those 12 weeks for AFTER the baby comes home so most women try to stick it out for as long as they can before taking leave and if their pregnancy is hard then that's a whole other bag of worms. Very tricky trying to manuever around working and being pregnant. Not cool at all. I know I was on edge for my whole pregnancy and I worked for a reallllly good corporation. Paid leave and all that but I had the worst first trimester and the last 2 were just very tiring and draining but I had to keep going. Thankfully I had a great manager and he told me not to stress out over it even when I came to him so worried, admitting I would probably be calling out frequently. He told me it wouldn't reflect badly but I still couldn't be 100% at ease cause you know how grimey the work force can be but he was true to his word and my call outs were just deducted from my vacation days liked we agreed on and all was well. But still had I not been working for such a cool place with such a cool manager. My very basic pregnancy would have most likely cost me my job. And that's just so wrong. Okay, sorry off topic.

 

But I'm extra sensitive when it comes to pregnancy and working. I really dislike the cavalier attitude that's taken by people about pregnancy and what should be expected from a woman who is pregnant. Big Pet Peeve of mine!

[Aging Goth]

I am glad some

 

Love how its assume a 15 yr old girl made those choices. Love how it's assumed that 15 yr olds aren't taken advantage of or manipulated on a regular basis. Love how it's assumed that all 15yrs that get pregnant are of the same caliber as those on 15 and pregnant. Life happens and everyone tries to get through the best they can.

I have to agree with this statement.  I came up at a time when a girl Patricia's age had only one recourse if she got pregnant; the coat hanger abortion.  Many young girls died because they felt they had no other way out and mentally could not handle a pregnancy, let alone having a child.  It meant a loss of everything for them from being in school to living with their parents.  I had friends who punched themselves in the stomach and even had their boyfriends punch them just to lose the baby.  Patricia chose to have her baby and give her to someone who could physically and mentally take care of it.  in the 70s, there were no jobs a 15 year old could get to support herself and her child, there were no places she could live where she could care for her child if her family was not suportive (and most were definitely NOT supportive of an unwed mother) so her options were slim to none.

 

A 15 year old unwed mother in the 70s was considered an outcast, a heretic, a whore.  No one but the homes for unwed mothers would take them in.  These places were mainly illegal adoption sites that further convinced the girl that she would be better off giving her baby up or they would just tell her the baby died.

 

To her credit, Patricia did none of this.  She didn't try to get rid of the baby, she did not go to these "homes" and she didn't just leave her abandoned in the street like so many girls do even today.  She wanted someone to adopt her.  When the baby's daddy's mother stepped up to take her baby she gave her up to this mother, probably knowing she would be with some who would love and care for her. 

 

People forget a 15 year old in the 70s was not as savvy as 15 year olds today and the opportunities for teenage mothers just didn't exist then.  Most girls her age gave their children up and distance themselves from them.  It was just easier that way.  They never named these babies because then they would find themselves attached to them.  I believe that is where Patricia was then and where she is right now.

 

Still not giving her a complete pass for what she did but at least she didn't just dump Kenya in the trash, abort her, kill her after birth, or leave her out in the cold like so many girls do today who do not want their babies.

[Yours Truly]

That doesn't mean that there aren't consequences to your choices.  Patricia chose to have sex, its a choice that many 15 year old girls make.  She and Ronald made a decision that resulted in a child.  If anyone shouldn't have to suffer any consequences, its the person who made no decision in the matter.  Kenya didn't choose to be born out of Patricia's decision to have sex.  Just because what you've done is understandable doesn't mean that there aren't consequences.  You have to accept the consequences of your actions, and ignoring an innocent child 40 years later is hardly accepting the consequences of your actions, instead its a cruel move designed to make a child feel like less than nothing.  

Or the woman lives with her own demons and can't help Kenya with hers. Sounds like it was the right move for this woman NOT to have raised Kenya. Sometimes things just are. Sometimes it's just healthier to accept things as they are without forcing any other outcome.

[Yours Truly]

Yes, unless she claims she was raped, I'm going to assume that a 15 year old girl chose to have sex with a 16 year old boy.  I don't think a 16 year old boy is so much more sophisticated than a 15 year old girl as to be a master of manipulation.  Life does happen, and in life, if you've made a decision you have to suffer the consequences of that decision.  Whether the consequence is big or small -- and making a child suffer for your poor decision making at 15 isn't accepting the consequences of your decision, its making someone else a victim of your poor decision making.

Not for free per se, but if her paycheck is tied to the businesses Porsha has and those businesses aren't making any money than she may not be drawing a paycheck.  

I'm just sad that we as a society have forgotten that children aren't allowed to drink til they are 21 for a reason. They aren't allowed to vote til they are 18 for a reason. Aren't allowed to drive til they are 16 for a reason. Can't enlist in the military til they are 17/18 for a reason. That adults are legally responsible for children til they are 18 for a reason. Even underage law offenders have different standards of consequences and have a chance to move passed a poor decision to go on to live their lives. But for the purpose of shaming, condemning and blaming 15 is old enough. I tell you what. A woman who admits to an abortion at 15 would probably get less vitriol than a woman who carried and birth a child but then refused to claim the child. Pretty backwards to me.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[RCharter]

Or the woman lives with her own demons and can't help Kenya with hers. Sounds like it was the right move for this woman NOT to have raised Kenya. Sometimes things just are. Sometimes it's just healthier to accept things as they are without forcing any other outcome.

Of course it would be healthier if Kenya could just happily accept her mothers undeserved rejection and move on.  But I think thats a lot to expect from someone that has been rejected for 40 years for no reason.  Someone who probably blamed herself for 40 years of rejection.  Sure, it was the right move for her not to raise Kenya, but to not even acknowledge her existence?  To not have a lunch, or write a letter or have a 10 minute phone conversation?  No, thats cruel, and thats making a child suffer for the decisions that Patricia made.  If anyone should have to bear the brunt, it should be the person who had a decision in the matter, not the child who didn't.

I'm just sad that we as a society have forgotten that children aren't allowed to drink til they are 21 for a reason. They aren't allowed to vote til they are 18 for a reason. Aren't allowed to drive til they are 16 for a reason. Can't enlist in the military til they are 17/18 for a reason. That adults are legally responsible for children til they are 18 for a reason. But for the purpose of shaming, condemning and blaming 15 is old enough. I tell you what. A woman who admits to an abortion at 15 would probably get less vitriol than a woman who carried and birth a child but then refused to claim the child. Pretty backwards to me.

All of these things are true, you can't legally do things until you are a certain age.  But yes, 15 year olds have to accept the responsibility for their actions.  We hold them accountable for criminal acts, even though we expect a parent to be supervising them.  So yes, a 15 year old should have to accept responsibility for their actions.  If a 15 year old gets drunk and plows someone down with a car, I'm still going to expect them to be held accountable for their actions and choices.  I think at 15, we don't expect someone to make adult decisions, but if you do make a decision you should be held accountable...even at 15.  

 

Personally, I'm more confused by the idea that because she didn't dump Kenya in a trash can or abort her it makes her cruelty more acceptable...even 40+ years later.

Edited January 11, 2016 by RCharter

[ZaldamoWilder]

Or the woman lives with her own demons and can't help Kenya with hers. Sounds like it was the right move for this woman NOT to have raised Kenya. Sometimes things just are. Sometimes it's just healthier to accept things as they are without forcing any other outcome.

 

I can't presume to know what would satisfy Kenya, but if I had to guess, I'd say I don't think she's interested in rewriting history or even wanting to force a relationship.  I think hearing Patricia say this exact sentence after her whole life of saying nothing would be enough.   I refuse to let up my hardassness on Patricia because whatever was done as a 15 year old, was done.  I'm not condemning her for that, I'm tambout she's fucked up for what she's doing NOW.

[Aging Goth]

But I'm extra sensitive when it comes to pregnancy and working. I really dislike the cavalier attitude that's taken by people about pregnancy and what should be expected from a woman who is pregnant. Big Pet Peeve of mine!

I guess because I was pregnant back in the late 60s to early 70s, I worked right up to two weeks before i delivered.  Most of us during that time kept working because there was no maternity leave at that time.  I was actually fired because I went into the hospital with severe toxemia and edema and ended up in the hospital for 2 months after giving birth.  It is just hard for me to feel that sorry for someone who is pregnant and just want to take it easy for most of their pregnancy and not work.  I could see if she had to do heavy lifting or other strenuous activities but she is working as an assistant in an office and knowing she was now pregnant simply should have gotten a replacement she could train so that it would be a smooth transition during her absence.  I doubt that Porsha would have fired her or even thought of it if Lauren had just been up front with her.  That is expected with any job.  if you worked in any job you couldn't just wait until you around 5-6 month pregnant and then spring on your boss that you plan to telework until you have and care for your baby.  He/she would be showing you the door real fast.

[Yours Truly]

I can't presume to know what would satisfy Kenya, but if I had to guess, I'd say I don't think she's interested in rewriting history or even wanting to force a relationship.  I think hearing Patricia say this exact sentence after her whole life of saying nothing would be enough.   I refuse to let up my hardassness on Patricia because whatever was done as a 15 year old, was done.  I'm not condemning her for that, I'm tambout she's fucked up for what she's doing NOW.

And what she's doing now is wrapped up in what happened when she was 15 years old. If we can understand how Kenya at 40 plus years is still running around chasing ghosts because of how her childhood demons mold her to be the grown woman she is today with these issues then I'm applying the same logic to this woman who has her own childhood demons molding and dictating her decisions today. There isn't just one person suffering in this equation and I think it's a bit foul that Kenya presents it this way and ALL FOR THE CAMERAS to boot. I can't be THAT torn up about it considering how Kenya is going about it. There's just a lot of foul surrounding it all and I think its just best to step away and let the course of her life continue to flow with all of her blessings and leave it at that.

[Yours Truly]

Of course it would be healthier if Kenya could just happily accept her mothers undeserved rejection and move on.  But I think thats a lot to expect from someone that has been rejected for 40 years for no reason.  Someone who probably blamed herself for 40 years of rejection.  Sure, it was the right move for her not to raise Kenya, but to not even acknowledge her existence?  To not have a lunch, or write a letter or have a 10 minute phone conversation?  No, thats cruel, and thats making a child suffer for the decisions that Patricia made.  If anyone should have to bear the brunt, it should be the person who had a decision in the matter, not the child who didn't.

All of these things are true, you can't legally do things until you are a certain age.  But yes, 15 year olds have to accept the responsibility for their actions.  We hold them accountable for criminal acts, even though we expect a parent to be supervising them.  So yes, a 15 year old should have to accept responsibility for their actions.  If a 15 year old gets drunk and plows someone down with a car, I'm still going to expect them to be held accountable for their actions and choices.  I think at 15, we don't expect someone to make adult decisions, but if you do make a decision you should be held accountable...even at 15.  

 

Personally, I'm more confused by the idea that because she didn't dump Kenya in a trash can or abort her it makes her cruelty more acceptable...even 40+ years later.

So carrying the child, birthing the child, making sure the child has the opportunity at a loving home. That's not being responsible or accountable for her actions? That's a head scratcher. The woman can't provide something she isn't in possession of and that's a maternal bond I think her mother afforded Kenya all she was able to and to condemn her for not providing something she doesn't have to give. Something that is being demanded from her time and time again. Not being afforded the relief she thought she should received by making the decision to give her up. I mean I don't understand what else there is supposed to be. This whole magical mother child philosophy that so many people want to impose on those who, I'm sorry, just AREN'T born with it cause more trouble than good. Sometimes life is hard and looking for people or things to blame doesn't heal a thing.

[ZaldamoWilder]

And what she's doing now is wrapped up in what happened when she was 15 years old. If we can understand how Kenya at 40 plus years is still running around chasing ghosts because of how her childhood demons mold her to be the grown woman she is today with these issues then I'm applying the same logic to this woman who has her own childhood demons molding and dictating her decisions today. There isn't just one person suffering in this equation and I think it's a bit foul that Kenya presents it this way and ALL FOR THE CAMERAS to boot. I can't be THAT torn up about it considering how Kenya is going about it. There's just a lot of foul surrounding it all and I think its just best to step away and let the course of her life continue to flow with all of her blessings and leave it at that.

 

Understood.  But the distinction between them is that, as SnarkKitty pointed out, Patricia, is a social worker.   Which means she could access the ability, resources and information that it takes to heal herself if she so chose.   Because she's a social worker she's also had the benefit of experiencing her daughter's perspective through her casework.   So she has the tools to heal, she knows how to do it and she's seen what it looks like from the other side.  <--- Makes her MORE of an asshole to me.   The nature of social work involves, if not requires some compassion and empathy, so either she sucks at her job or she's got disassociative disorder den a mugg.   They also differ in that she had some choice in the consequence of her decisions.  If not the initial decision, certainly subsequent actions.  Because if we're contending that she's so damaged and traumatized as to never warrant contact then the poor thing wouldn'tve had it in her to track down Kenya's information to call her when she won the paegent now would she?   Here's what else, messed up as they may have been, Patricia knew her parents.

[Yours Truly]

I guess because I was pregnant back in the late 60s to early 70s, I worked right up to two weeks before i delivered.  Most of us during that time kept working because there was no maternity leave at that time.  I was actually fired because I went into the hospital with severe toxemia and edema and ended up in the hospital for 2 months after giving birth.  It is just hard for me to feel that sorry for someone who is pregnant and just want to take it easy for most of their pregnancy and not work.  I could see if she had to do heavy lifting or other strenuous activities but she is working as an assistant in an office and knowing she was now pregnant simply should have gotten a replacement she could train so that it would be a smooth transition during her absence.  I doubt that Porsha would have fired her or even thought of it if Lauren had just been up front with her.  That is expected with any job.  if you worked in any job you couldn't just wait until you around 5-6 month pregnant and then spring on your boss that you plan to telework until you have and care for your baby.  He/she would be showing you the door real fast.

Did you "just want to take it easy" or was it pretty much a necessity to take it easy. It gets me just how hard we like to be on women that are doing something rather important. You know developing another life. I know it's common and all that but it's ummm still a pretty grueling process to go through so when we as a society simplify different aspects of the process we then regulate it to something not worth defending or protecting. I know of too many situations where a woman didn't want to slow down "just because" she was pregnant and worked her way right out of a pregnancy due to miscarriage. It's nothing to take lightly, whether its a difficult or easy pregnancy and I surely take issue with the idea that a woman shouldn't "milk" their pregnancy card so they don't have to work as hard. Fuck yeah, I don't expect to work as hard. I got another person inside me taking over my body ummmm can I please not be on my feet all day or can't I stay in bed for half the day?? Good Lord. LOL. Oh and yeah, I had an office job and it was still all I could do to go in most days. Or take a shower, or brush my teeth... etc. etc. LOL.

 

ETA: ANNNNNDDDDDD I'm a Marine. But pregnancy.... not boot camp.... KICK MY ASS!

Edited January 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[LIMOM]

Of course, things are different from 40 years ago, but what about now?

Why can't her mother have the decency and kindness to speak with Kenya woman to woman?

If she doesn't I fear Kenya will never know peace.

[ridethemaverick]

I'm glad Porsha and Lauren worked it out.

I wonder if that check will clear...

Can't wait to see Nene!

[DeepRed]

 

Not thrilled about NeNe coming back. Now there's someone who should have had the door locked in her face.

*** DEAD  ***

[Aging Goth]

Of course, things are different from 40 years ago, but what about now?

Why can't her mother have the decency and kindness to speak with Kenya woman to woman?

If she doesn't I fear Kenya will never know peace.

Maybe because Patricia haven't dealt with her demons yet.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Aging Goth

[Aging Goth]

ETA: ANNNNNDDDDDD I'm a Marine. But pregnancy.... not boot camp.... KICK MY ASS!

Kicked mine too! 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

So carrying the child, birthing the child, making sure the child has the opportunity at a loving home. That's not being responsible or accountable for her actions? That's a head scratcher. The woman can't provide something she isn't in possession of and that's a maternal bond I think her mother afforded Kenya all she was able to and to condemn her for not providing something she doesn't have to give. Something that is being demanded from her time and time again. Not being afforded the relief she thought she should received by making the decision to give her up. I mean I don't understand what else there is supposed to be. This whole magical mother child philosophy that so many people want to impose on those who, I'm sorry, just AREN'T born with it cause more trouble than good. Sometimes life is hard and looking for people or things to blame doesn't heal a thing.

 

 

She doesn't have to mother Kenya. Acknowledging her however is something any decent human would do, mother or not.

[Aging Goth]

 

Of course, things are different from 40 years ago, but what about now?

Now, the girls are just throwing the kids in the garbage or just leaving them on the street.  Not much has changed except most now won't even carry the child to term and do whatever to get rid of the child permanently.

[SnarkKitty]

I don't think anyone is faulting the 15 year old for her decisions; she seemingly had no real choices after the first (bad) one: under aged sexual contact. I think the issue is the 35/40/50/60 year old who continued to refuse to acknowledge her, even to speak a word. She's given strangers on the street more consideration than the child she brought into the world. That's fucked up, and it's no wonder Kenya can't get past that. She doesn't have the excuse that her father will disown her anymore, or that she's a child. Now, the responsibility for not even having a conversation - and putting this to rest for Kenya - is all hers.

 

You mind nudged me - about the reunion tshirts having Kenya's Family Reunion on them.  I meant say the reason that wasn't weird was because the tshirt thing itself isn't unique, but black family reunions are normally one side or the other so it's ordinarily the family's name on the shirt.   This was both sides of Kenya's family who are unrelated to each other.  As self absorbed as it probably looked, it made sense as both sides are related to her. 

I thought "Kenya's Family Reunion?"" too, before realizing it made sense since it was to bring both sides of her family together. Although she could have done "Moore/Grant Reunion." But whatever.

 

Lauren, you can't have it both ways.  Either you work ...or you don't.  It's just that simple.  Millions of pregnant women get up and go to work every day and they are tired, and ill, and vomity, and sluggish but they go to work because they know if they don't, they won't have a job anymore.  The job won't fire them for being pregnant, because that's illegal.  But if they just aren't doing their job?

 

Either step your game up or get a temporary assistant for Porsha while you're out on pregnancy leave.  Porsha needs to nip this in the bud NOW because after the baby is born the excuse will be she can't do this or that because of the baby.  At a certain point she's not going to be able to fly with Porsha anyway, whether it's coach or 1st class so Porsha really needs to be thinking about hiring a replacement for Lauren. Doesn't need to be permanent but a temporary reliable replacement.

 

I agree, it's rarely a good idea to have your besties or siblings as your personal assistants (I'm looking at you too, Kandi & Khloe.) Because they feel way more entitled to want to enjoy the same perks you do, and get salty when they have to sit in coach, stay in the hovel during the ski trip, or sleep on the couch on fancy vacations. Sure it's fun and convenient when you want a buddy, but less so when you want someone to collect packages at the office and they're like, whatever man.

 

In this case, I do believe Lauren is milking the "I'm pregnant, I can't do stand up on the red carpet." Please believe if she had a regular job, she'd be at that office collecting the packages and not talking about "why can't I stay home? I'm 4 months pregnant!" Girl, bye. I'm gonna need to hear you're having a troubled pregnancy, are sick off your ass, you can't get up, before I'm going to sympathize. Otherwise, my having 3 kids under five, taking 6 week of maternity leave the first time, 2 weeks the next, walking two kids to daycare at while kicking 200lbs in the sumo-looking 8 month's pregnant ass before catching a train for 45 minutes to get to work by 8am EVERY DAY is not even trying to hear it.  I'm just sayin', you do what you gotta do.

 

Of course it would be healthier if Kenya could just happily accept her mothers undeserved rejection and move on.  But I think thats a lot to expect from someone that has been rejected for 40 years for no reason.  Someone who probably blamed herself for 40 years of rejection. 

  

My youngest brother joined our family permanently when he was 3 weeks old. His mother did drugs and kind of ran the streets and had him out all hours. My mother told her if she was going to be out there, she shouldn't keep the baby out and she'd watch him. His mother brought him over once, and picked him up a couple of days later. The next time, she dropped him off, and never took him back. My mother never did a formal adoption figuring at some point she'd get her life together and want her son back. She never did, but he always knew he had another mother.  She visited him a couple of times, and he actually knew members of her family as his family (same neighborhood thing). He met his father once before he was killed in some street fight. Even knowing the reason his mother didn't keep him, and knowing he had a much better life than he would ever have had, he was always troubled and in trouble. And never wanted anyone new to know how he joined our family. As a 30 year old man he recently cried and asked "why did they throw me away? Why didn't they want me?" That has never left him, even though he has his own family, and us. It's primal, man. And some deal with it better than others.

[LIMOM]

Maybe because Patricia haven't dealt with her demons yet.

she still owes it to herself and Kenya to get closure before it is too late, IMO.

She was a freaking social worker, how about she helps herself and her child for god sake??????

Not on camera, of course.

Now that is uncalled for.

Now, the girls are just throwing the kids in the garbage or just leaving them on the street.  Not much has changed except most now won't even carry the child to term and do whatever to get rid of the child permanently.

Sorry if I wasn't clear I meant to write, why would Kenya's mom not take action, today.

[Aging Goth]

Understood.  But the distinction between them is that, as SnarkKitty pointed out, Patricia, is a social worker.   Which means she could access the ability, resources and information that it takes to heal herself if she so chose.

Then the problem is if she couldn't handle it then, she probably isn't handling it now.  Her being a social worker does not mean she don't still have demons.  Heck, at least three of the people I took the St Elizabeth asylum in DC were nurses from the psychiatric ward at NIH.  Being privy to those resources does not mean she would be of the mindset to take advantage of them.

my husbands mother is still alive and he is 66 now.  She still doesn't acknowledge his existence and she has since let his sister go as well.  As far as anybody knows she is still somewhere in upstate NY.  She was also a nurse like I am which is why I think my husband married me and why it never worked with us.  He is still looking for her and I wasn't it.

[LIMOM]

Then the problem is if she couldn't handle it then, she probably isn't handling it now.  Her being a social worker does not mean she don't still have demons.  Heck, at least three of the people I took the St Elizabeth asylum in DC were nurses from the psychiatric ward at NIH.  Being privy to those resources does not mean she would be of the mindset to take advantage of them.

This would make the most sense that Kenya's mom is afflicted with some type of a mental illness, disability.

Even though, it would still be heartbreaking, IMO

[Yours Truly]

She doesn't have to mother Kenya. Acknowledging her however is something any decent human would do, mother or not.

So basically if she were to humor Kenya then she can be off the hook? I think there's something so very wrong with this sentiment. Basically we are asking this woman to put on a show even if it doesn't come from within and we are also condemning this woman because it doesn't come from within but she isn't going through the motions society deems she should go through for Kenya's sake. Too me the facts of the matter are very sad and very unfortunate but that's where it ends. What isn't necessary is drawing out the pain, the history, the wounds, the scars and all the new byproducts that are coming out of these very sad circumstances. The Renewing this script of wrongs that will never end is what I find very off putting. That every act there after is a new slight, is a new inflicted wound, that it is a continuous chamber of torture when in reality decisions have been made long ago and the time has come for everyone to live out the rest of their lives without conjuring up more pain due to this decades old family strife. Kenya has means to heal as well and yet the path she chooses isn't the healthiest. It's time for her to productively tackle these demons and not just use it for ratings. Just saying.

[Aging Goth]

she still owes it to herself and Kenya to get closure before it is too late, IMO.

She was a freaking social worker, how about she helps herself and her child for god sake??????

Not on camera, of course.

Now that is uncalled for.

That is why I felt Kenya should not have approached her with the camera going.  This should have been a very private situation.  Not saying she would have responded but the camera made certain she would not respond.  It also appears the entire Moore family feels the same way and may be pressuring Patricia to maintain her silence.  Don't quite know what her demons may be.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear I meant to write, why would Kenya's mom not take action, today.

Gotcha.  same reason as above.  The entire family is dysfunctional.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Then the problem is if she couldn't handle it then, she probably isn't handling it now.  Her being a social worker does not mean she don't still have demons.  Heck, at least three of the people I took the St Elizabeth asylum in DC were nurses from the psychiatric ward at NIH.  Being privy to those resources does not mean she would be of the mindset to take advantage of them.

 

I know girl but I can't let it go lol.  It's like a former addict who's an AA counselor with a child......who's an addict.   On paper that is perfectly logical.  From a mother's heart though, I can't do anything but look at Patricia crazy. 

[LIMOM]

So basically if she were to humor Kenya then she can be off the hook? I think there's something so very wrong with this sentiment. Basically we are asking this woman to put on a show even if it doesn't come from within and we are also condemning this woman because it doesn't come from within but she isn't going through the motions society deems she should go through for Kenya's sake. Too me the facts of the matter are very sad and very unfortunate but that's where it ends. What isn't necessary is drawing out the pain, the history, the wounds, the scars and all the new byproducts that are coming out of these very sad circumstances. The Renewing this script of wrongs that will never end is what I find very off putting. That every act there after is a new slight, is a new inflicted wound, that it is a continuous chamber of torture when in reality decisions have been made long ago and the time has come for everyone to live out the rest of their lives without conjuring up more pain due to this decades old family strife. Kenya has means to heal as well and yet the path she chooses isn't the healthiest. It's time for her to productively tackle these demons and not just use it for ratings. Just saying.

Kenya can't let go, IMO.

Doing on camera was self serving but a part of me wonders if she Kenya thought that somehow this would force her mom's hand to speak with her.

She even said: "I need to go alone"

Kenya still hopes against all hopes.

[Aging Goth]

Yours Truly stated:  Kenya has means to heal as well and yet the path she chooses isn't the healthiest. It's time for her to productively tackle these demons and not just use it for ratings. Just saying.

I believe this the problem with both mother and daughter.  Neither probably will ever admit they have problems so they both continue on as always.

I know girl but I can't let it go lol.  It's like a former addict who's an AA counselor with a child......who's an addict.   On paper that is perfectly logical.  From a mother's heart though, I can't do anything but look at Patricia crazy. 

That means you are OK and can handle such a crisis.  In my profession, there way too many Patricias out there and there are even more Kenyas as well.  Jesus fix it.