Original Flavor Season Talk: Dinner at Rodbell's

[StaceyNotStacie]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Towards the end, Mark was so dumb and useless, and David so pussy whipped, they were both a drag to watch. It seemed like most of the characters were ruined by the time the show limped to the finish line.

The more I watch, I can't stand David, but Mark has grown on me. He might not be book smart, but at least he tried to make a decent life for him and Becky. I hated how he was the butt of everyone's jokes. He was probably a victim of a lousy home life and the Connors gave him just as much family and stability that they gave David; David was just lucky to have escaped while he was a minor so he could complete his education. Mark was more street smart and self sufficient than David. I hated how Becky had that prissy attitude when he failed trade school and I'm glad that Dan called her on it. 

[Bastet]

6 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

I hated how Becky had that prissy attitude when he failed trade school and I'm glad that Dan called her on it. 

I liked Dan calling her out, but I also think it was Sarah Chalke's only moment of good acting, and the time she most felt like Becky, when she delivered the line, "It's just so weird I could fall in love with someone that could flunk out of trade school."

[SPLAIN]

My issue with the Mark character is how they changed his personality three times in the show. When he first came on the scene he was a major prick to the Conners. He had an attitude during the time he dated Becky that made me want to slap him through my television. Then, when he and Becky were married, he was shown to be this mellow, easy-going, decent young man with a good head on his shoulders. Later, he became this guy whose intelligence took a nose-dive and was way too cartoonish.

Edited March 27, 2017 by SPLAIN

[BitterApple]

12 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

My issue with the Mark character is how they changed his personality three times in the show. When he first came on the scene he was a major prick to the Conners. He had an attitude during the time he dated Becky that made me want to slap him through my television. Then, when he and Becky were married, he was shown to be this mellow, easy-going, decent young man with a good head on his shoulders. Later, he became this guy whose intelligence took a nose-dive and was way too cartoonish.

I think going from a smart-mouthed dick to a decent guy is believable. People grow out of bratty teenage phases and get their acts together. However the transition from decent guy to moron was ridiculous. When we first met Mark he was self-supporting with a job and his own apartment. By the end of the show he was like a toddler who couldn't tie his shoes without the Connors' help. Also, Original Mark didn't strike me as the type who'd take charity from his in-laws. He was a punk but never a moocher. David was the one who had no problem freeloading. I feel like Roseanne Seasons 1-6 and 7-9 were two completely different shows. Pretty much all the characters slid backwards. None of them ever became a success story.

Edited March 27, 2017 by BitterApple

[Dee]

The writing definitely became broader in the last couple of seasons, but Mark never became a moocher. He and Becky were self supporting and living on their own even after Dan & Roseanne won the lottery.

If anything, it was David and Darlene who were the moochers.

[UYI]

On 3/25/2017 at 11:55 AM, Stacey1014 said:

Also, no matter how many times I watch this series, I will never like the character of Nancy. I preferred all of Roseanne and Jackie's other female friends. 

She was fine when she was with Arnie, but at some point after she comes out, she gradually becomes more and more unbearable. 

[readster]

Seeing the original "Connors try to go Vegas" episode. It is amazing how much of an asshole Leon was. I know he changed as time when on and I did think Richard Moll did a good job. However, there was both good and bad points with him and Roseanne early on. Yes, Roseanne seemed to come and go as she pleased, but at the same time. Leon put himself in his matters several times. When he was trying to serve tables and he was telling customers they had to wait or get over themselves I wanted to go: "How did this guy become a manager?" He left and three episode later the cafe closed down and it's a few years later and Leon is a health inspector, which I thought fit the bill. However, later on when he was trying to buy Roseanne out of the Lunchbox and get rid of her after Bev left her half to Leon. 

   There he was back in asshole mode and his reason were: "Just customers be happier without Roseanne around." I like how Dan then told him off (3 years too late) "I'm tired of defending you, for such a smart business person, you make extremely stupid decisions. Good luck." 

[bigskygirl]

In the real world, unless you really are desperate for help, Roseanne would have been fired for acting like that. I hate the waitress storyline, and the Lunch Box storylines because I have a hard time believing someone working with the general public or running/being a partner running a business having Roseanne's attitude. Yes, Leon was an ass at times, but Roseanne was no better.

[Dee]

I crack up when Roseanne interferes in Steven and Leon's relationship, then follows them up to housewares to watch them argue.

[Browncoat]

6 hours ago, readster said:

Richard Moll

I think you mean Martin Mull.  Richard Moll was Bull on Night Court.

[readster]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

I think you mean Martin Mull.  Richard Moll was Bull on Night Court.

You are right, sorry been watching Night Court lately. Getting my actors mixed up. My bad.

[SparklesBitch]

Caught the food fight scene between Roseanne and Jackie in the episode when they're selling soya sausages and canned cheese in the supermarket this afternoon while cleaning the house. 

I never used to like it, but the more I see it, the more it grows on me. The pure joy that Roseanne gets out of pouring milk over Jackie's head kills me. 

Also, their competing messages over the intercom:

"Soya sausages! Almost as good as the cheese in a can, only without the spider eggs and hair!"

"Soya sausages, the food of demons. Eat them and go to hell!"

"Where you'll meet the creator of cheese in a can!"

I love that both actresses are clearly having a blast. Lol! ?

[qtpye]

The episode where Roseanne gets the job in the hair salon.  I appreciated the way Jackie had to literally drag her to get dressed.  So many regular people have jobs they hate and have no choice but to go to, in order to support their families.  I really never understood why this job was so much more demeaning then working in fast food with a snotty 16 year old manager.  I know a lot of people have speculated it was because she had to wait on her friends, but that would be true of anywhere she worked at Landford.

[Bastet]

I can understand her feeling differently about serving food to someone she knows and sweeping up their hair, and we saw that people, indeed, treated her accordingly; Becky mentioned, kind of embarrassed, that a girl at school said, "My mom saw your mom sweeping hair at the salon."  Roseanne had the great comeback, telling Becky to tell that girl, well, Roseanne saw her mom getting her roots done and her upper lip bleached.

And at least when serving fast food, everyone other than the little maggot was on the same level.  She could chat with a customer if she wanted.  At the salon, she was low woman on the totem pole, and essentially invisible to the customers (until she got promoted to shampoo woman) -- the people she worked with were great, but to customers she was just this figure in the background fetching coffee, washing towels, and coming through to sweep up their discarded hair.

She walked away from a union job, and feels like she's just sunk lower and lower with each subsequent shot at employment -- she couldn't hack it at phone sales, she got fired by a teenager, and now she's sweeping up hair.

[bigskygirl]

Roseanne did talk with the customers at the salon, and the only one who did treat her differently was Mrs. Willman (remember she called her Roxanne instead of Roseanne.) The lady who owned the salon was happy with her, and I bet she could have ended up being a hair stylist or the business side of the salon instead of being a waitress. I would have love to have seen Roseanne go to business/community college and moved up career wise at the salon. I think it would have made a much better story line.

[Bastet]

I was talking about her mindset when Jackie was dragging her away from the kitchen table so she could get dressed and go interview for a job she didn't want -- why the job sounded so horrible to her, on its own, and especially given the way she was feeling.

She wound up taking it because of the people who worked there; they didn't treat her like she was nothing.  And then she got promoted, and got to have some interaction with customers (but still had to endure sweet but humiliating things like Crystal tipping her $10 for washing her hair).

But I can still understand why she was happy to move on to something else when the opportunity arose.  If she'd taken as a busser at Rodbell's, I'd wonder why she didn't just stay where she was, but leaving to take a server job, I understand. 

[bigskygirl]

What I do not understand is when she went to talk to the salon owner Roseanne said she could only work certain days and hours because of Dan and the kids. Working as a waitress usually means working different shifts and days, plus I bet she made more money at the salon since waitresses usually only make minimum wage plus tips. I do remember her having some interaction with the salon customers before she moved on to shampooing heads and other things. She had a much better chance of advancement at the salon than the waitress job. To me, her attitude about working and being around people went downhill when she became a waitress. I hated the storyline along with Dan and the motorcycle stop, Becky and Mark, and Jackie not being a cop. They had a lot of great storyline to work with Roseanne at the salon, Dan and his drywall business, Becky heading off to community and/or four year college, and Jackie being a desk cop after her injury. Sadly, in my opinion, the show went downhill in  and after Season 3, and it was not as good as the first two years.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

plus I bet she made more money at the salon since waitresses usually only make minimum wage plus tips.

I think the opposite -- she'd have made a higher base salary at the salon (although barely over minimum wage; I think it was an extra .50 per hour or something when she started shampooing), but the tips would be much smaller than at Rodbell's.  It's one of the reasons I can see her leaving the salon job for a server position, despite how much she liked her co-workers.

And I don't think there was any realistic potential for advancement at the salon.  Unless she wanted to get her cosmetology license; I'm sure they'd have worked her schedule around school and maybe even hired her on afterward (it would depend on if there was enough business to justify another position), but with no interest in doing hair, it wouldn't make much sense to go to school for it.  Writing was the only passion she had, but she saw no realistic way of making a living at that (which is accurate for her), and their financial concerns were always pretty immediate, so I find it quite in character for her to look for jobs she already had the skills for than to take the time and money to go to school/train and apprentice for something that didn't interest her any more than what she could already be doing.

[bigskygirl]

She could have worked on the business side of the salon, and she could have find a way to balance home, work and school. She was making $10.00 a hour when she left the salon. The place where she was a waitress at was small, and I do not think there was a lot of customers even before the place closed down, so I do not think she was making around $10.00 a hour with the tips since Leon said her attitude sucked aka could not find her a job within the mall because she waited on the department managers. At least with some computer. accounting, and office skills classes and training, she could have moved up in careers instead of taking a low paying, no chances for advancement job. Look at Jackie. She was able to move on from the plastic factory, bartender, to law enforcement within a short period of time. She could have stayed in the law enforcement field as an officer working at the desk, but they made it sound terrible and below her career standards. If Roseanne was able to help out Dan when he was a drywall contractor and at his bike shop, so she could have tried to take classes to improve her office skills. The problem with Roseanne especially when Season 3 was she did not have the drive or the attitude to improve her job/career skills. If they could find a way to open the bike shop, they could have found a way for her to take business and office skills classes.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

The place where she was a waitress at was small, and I do not think there was a lot of customers even before the place closed down, so I do not think she was making around $10.00 a hour with the tips since Leon said her attitude sucked aka could not find her a job within the mall because she waited on the department managers.

It's more the location than the size; being in Rodbell's, there were people in and out of there all day long.  Not big tips on each meal, because it wasn't expensive food, but a lot of tips, because people got in and got out.  Lots of regulars, too, because it's not just shoppers, but mall employees.  It was always pretty full.

And Leon also said the customers loved Roseanne and Bonnie, the way they chatted and joked with them.  

[ButterQueen]

I'm watching the one about Rodbelle's commercial.  I don't really care for the episode, except for the following:

Roseanne: (screaming at DJ and Todd from downstairs) Now listen up! There will be no talking, no giggling, or laughing, no playing music, no singing, no animal noises, no doing whatever the hell you where doing when you were making that peg leg kinda thumping noise, no bird calls, no bouncing the ball, and no jumping on the bed or I'm coming up there, now GO TO SLEEP!!

[DkNNy79]

Wasn't their last child Bob originally supposed to be a girl.  I thought I remembered seeing them refer to the new baby as a girl.  Then came Bob did they every address that discrepancy?

[Bastet]

23 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

Wasn't their last child Bob originally supposed to be a girl.  I thought I remembered seeing them refer to the new baby as a girl.  Then came Bob did they every address that discrepancy?

Jerry, not Bob, but yeah -- at the same time they got the amnio results they were told they were having a girl.  But then Roseanne wound up having a boy in real life, and Jerry Garcia had died, so they decided to make the Conner baby a boy and name him after Garcia.  I do not believe the fetus having been identified as a girl was ever addressed.

[qtpye]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:42 AM, bigskygirl said:

She could have worked on the business side of the salon, and she could have find a way to balance home, work and school. She was making $10.00 a hour when she left the salon. The place where she was a waitress at was small, and I do not think there was a lot of customers even before the place closed down, so I do not think she was making around $10.00 a hour with the tips since Leon said her attitude sucked aka could not find her a job within the mall because she waited on the department managers. At least with some computer. accounting, and office skills classes and training, she could have moved up in careers instead of taking a low paying, no chances for advancement job. Look at Jackie. She was able to move on from the plastic factory, bartender, to law enforcement within a short period of time. She could have stayed in the law enforcement field as an officer working at the desk, but they made it sound terrible and below her career standards. If Roseanne was able to help out Dan when he was a drywall contractor and at his bike shop, so she could have tried to take classes to improve her office skills. The problem with Roseanne especially when Season 3 was she did not have the drive or the attitude to improve her job/career skills. If they could find a way to open the bike shop, they could have found a way for her to take business and office skills classes.

It was frustrating to see the character flounder, but I appreciated the realism.  On TV shows, you see a blue collar character decide she is going to school and in a couple of seasons, she has an important job and is incredibly successful.  The truth is, despite all her wisecracks, Roseanne was terrified of doing better for herself.  I know she used the kids as an excuse, but they were getting older and she could have trained for better opportunities.   She just did not have the drive or ambition.  This is true for many people who get stuck in dead end jobs. 

Also, I should point out in the early seasons, she is fairly happy.  Their finances are always precarious, but she has a house, an awesome husband, and three great kids.  She really might have been satisfied with her lot in life.  It was not till later, when Roseanne's views changed, that the character became miserable.

Quote

Look at Jackie. She was able to move on from the plastic factory, bartender, to law enforcement within a short period of time. She could have stayed in the law enforcement field as an officer working at the desk, but they made it sound terrible and below her career standards.

It is interesting to me that you mention Jackie.  I definitely felt in the earlier seasons, Roseanne looked at herself as the "successful sister", because she was married, had kids, and was settled.

[Dee]

3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It is interesting to me that you mention Jackie.  I definitely felt in the earlier seasons, Roseanne looked at herself as the "successful sister", because she was married, had kids, and was settled.

Indeed. And that dynamic continued to play itself out through the run of the show with Roseanne resenting feeling responsible for cleaning up the impulsive mistakes Jackie made while chasing her dreams while being bitter about all the opportunities she missed and/or was denied throughout her life and Jackie feeling smothered by what she viewed as Roseanne's chronic inflexibility and pathological need to control her life.

[DkNNy79]

33 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Jerry, not Bob, but yeah -- at the same time they got the amnio results they were told they were having a girl.  But then Roseanne wound up having a boy in real life, and Jerry Garcia had died, so they decided to make the Conner baby a boy and name him after Garcia.  I do not believe the fetus having been identified as a girl was ever addressed.

Thank you.  Yes, I remember now that the baby was named Jerry after Jerry Garcia.

Edited April 20, 2017 by DkNNy79

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, Dee said:

Indeed. And that dynamic continued to play itself out through the run of the show with Roseanne resenting feeling responsible for cleaning up the impulsive mistakes Jackie made while chasing her dreams while being bitter about all the opportunities she missed and/or was denied throughout her life and Jackie feeling smothered by what she viewed as Roseanne's chronic inflexibility and pathological need to control her life.

I completely agree with your statement, but I always thought Roseanne feeling like she needed to clean up Jackie's messes was sort of strange. Aside from being a disaster with men, Jackie was pretty competent in every other area of her life. She lived independently and supported herself. She was always the one loaning Dan and Roseanne money, not the other way around. Even though she bounced around in terms of careers, she accomplished everything she set out to do (i.e., truck driving school and the police academy) and it was her idea to start a business with the money their mother gave them. I think Roseanne definitely saw herself as the successful sister because she had the stable family life, but Jackie ran circles around her in every other category.

I also agree with qtpye that Roseanne really did nothing to better her station in life. Pre-bike shop, any time Roseanne would quit or get fired from a job, Dan's first response would be "we're okay, I've got a ton of work lined up" so I always got the impression Roseanne's salary was more pin money than an absolute necessity for supporting the household. After the episode where she didn't get the secretary job due to her lack of computer skills, you'd think that would've been a wake-up call to sign up for a couple classes at the community college or something. 

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I completely agree with your statement, but I always thought Roseanne feeling like she needed to clean up Jackie's messes was sort of strange. Aside from being a disaster with men, Jackie was pretty competent in every other area of her life. She lived independently and supported herself. She was always the one loaning Dan and Roseanne money, not the other way around. Even though she bounced around in terms of careers, she accomplished everything she set out to do (i.e., truck driving school and the police academy) and it was her idea to start a business with the money their mother gave them. I think Roseanne definitely saw herself as the successful sister because she had the stable family life, but Jackie ran circles around her in every other category.

I used to watch this show as a kid and that would confuse the heck out of me.  It seemed like Jackie was doing all these cool things (before she became wacky Jackie) and Roseanne was stuck in a dirty house, dead end jobs, and with annoying kids.   I do think everybody loved John Goodman as Dan, but besides that I saw nothing in Roseanne's life to envy.  I think even though people think of Roseanne as feminist, it was an old fashion notion that a single woman was pathetic and being married and having a family should be a woman's number one priority.  It was not very progressive, but in keeping with what the character would think, given their background.

[bigskygirl]

I liked Jackie until she ended up leaving the police force because she did not want to be stuck behind a desk. I saw nothing wrong with that. Yes, it may not be the same as being on foot patrol, but desk officers do their fair share of the work to keep the department running in order to help citizens. She also could have ended up with a great guy, but oh no, this is far beneath her.

I do remember the one episode where their mom said Jackie was meant to do something with her life, and Roseanne was meant to be a wife and mother. Roseanne was not happy about it, but she did not take advantage of the opportunities she had when it came to improving her career goals. I do remember her blaming Dan when she did not get the one office job because she lacked computer skills. She could have seen it as a major wake up call and try to take some computer and office skill classes at the local community college. If they could find the money to fund the bike shop and had the time to run it, they could have found a way for her to take classes.

[Bastet]

15 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

I liked Jackie until she ended up leaving the police force because she did not want to be stuck behind a desk.

I think Jackie would have been miserable in a desk job (for the police or any other employer, but especially for the police where she knew what it was like to be out doing the things she'd now just be hearing/reading/writing about).  Her jobs were all either active or interactive, and she's just not a good fit for sitting in an office. 

And she didn't have a kid to support then, so there was no need to suffer through something just for the paycheck and benefits. 

[Dee]

9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I completely agree with your statement, but I always thought Roseanne feeling like she needed to clean up Jackie's messes was sort of strange. Aside from being a disaster with men, Jackie was pretty competent in every other area of her life. She lived independently and supported herself. She was always the one loaning Dan and Roseanne money, not the other way around. Even though she bounced around in terms of careers, she accomplished everything she set out to do (i.e., truck driving school and the police academy) and it was her idea to start a business with the money their mother gave them. I think Roseanne definitely saw herself as the successful sister because she had the stable family life, but Jackie ran circles around her in every other category.

I've always seen Roseanne as a proxy for Bev in Jackie's life. Yes, Jackie has a fairly productive life and operates as the 'Cool Auntie' for Roseanne's kids, but she's an emotional wreck.

Her own home life is a mess since she has no intent on following through on her parents ideas for her future, and has a contentious relationship with her mother, so she gravitates to Dan and Roseanne as a surrogate 4th child who has all of the privileges of being able to take the time to explore, and enjoy life, with the emotional security of an established home life free of the pressure to conform (besides Roseanne's matchmaking). 

For all of Jackie's vaunted sense of independence, she has a tendency not to stand up for herself in her relationships the way Roseanne does. The show plays Roseanne's wisecracks as funny but when something happens she doesn't like she usually speaks out about it fairly quickly, and loudly. Whereas Jackie bottles up her feelings and emotionally flagellates herself over not feeling worthy of other people's time and attention. A character trait viewed most acutely during the run of the show via her relationships with men. She all but swoons when Dan remembers their first meeting in great detail, gives Booker infinite chances despite him constantly ditching her for something 'better,' Gary has to pick a fight to get her to invest herself in their relationship, repeatedly absorbs Fisher's abuse under the guise of making their relationship work and she marries Fred because, at least initially, he radiates stability.

It's the same pattern with her relationship with Roseanne. Post-Wellman, Jackie makes life choices she knows her parents won't agree with, so she runs to Roseanne (when she isn't living with them outright) as an emotional safety net. A scenario the show revisits whenever Dan and Roseanne introduce someone new into the household and/or she is in the throes of a bad breakup.

[bigskygirl]

I also did not get the Jackie had to retire to a desk job with her back injury. There have been law enforcement officers who have had worse injuries and were able to go back on the force after medical treatment and rehabilitation. She could have work with a physical therapist and gotten back to patrol duty while working at a desk for awhile. I remember one guy who had severe injuries/burns, and he came back to work as a detective. I think it could have made an interesting story line with Jackie working with a physical therapist and a doctor to get back on the force with Roseanne trying to run shotgun over the whole thing. In fact, why not have Roseanne get a clerical job with the police department. So many great story lines, but they had to jump shark in Season 3.

[qtpye]

12 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I do remember her blaming Dan when she did not get the one office job because she lacked computer skills. She could have seen it as a major wake up call and try to take some computer and office skill classes at the local community college. If they could find the money to fund the bike shop and had the time to run it, they could have found a way for her to take classes.

The character always has a habit of not owning up to her own shortcomings and thinking someone always kept her from her dreams.  I remember the horrible fight she had with Dan, where they broke all the furniture, she said her only mistake in life was "not teaching her daughters to give up their dreams for some stupid man, the way she did".  I am not saying that doing what you want to do career wise, while raising a family is easy (I am in the same boat), but this was an unfair statement to make.  The truth is that she did not want admit that she herself did not have the drive to better her situation.  Roseanne Conner just did not have the ambitious nature of Roseanne Barr.

She also had a codependent relationship with Landford.  She loved to run the town down as a place of broken dreams and losers, but was terrified to leave it.  I remember in the later episodes, I wanted to shake her when she is actually upset that Darlene got an early acceptance to a writing school in Chicago.  She was so selfish "because she did not want Darlene to leave her the way Becky did".  In the end of the episode she finally comes to her senses that this is a great opportunity for her daughter to escape their "Landford" lifestyle.

Also, I do not buy that Becky and Darlene "gave everything up for a man".  Becky did not want to lose Mark, but she "stupidly" thought she had few options in life, since she could no longer go to college.  Darlene already had a decent job and David was working as a graphic designer, when she got pregnant.  It was dumb for her to have unprotected sex, but it did not mean her dreams all came to a crashing halt.

Another time I wanted to shake Roseanne, was when NuBecky, now broke, working as a Hooter's waitress,  and living with her parents, told Roseanne that she was trying to get pregnant.  Roseanne was so happy about the news, she gave Becky a giant hug.  Hey, what about encouraging your daughter to educate herself, so she and her husband can become independent before they bring in another mouth to feed.

[bigskygirl]

In my opinion, Becky could have went to college. She could have applied for financial aid and with the family financial situation she could have gotten scholarships, grants, and even a part time job along with going to a community college for the first two years to save money. I also do not buy Darlene barely making it through high school suddenly becoming a great writer and going off to writing school. I think the writers were trying to turn Darlene into a younger Roseanne who was able to go on and become a great success without getting married right out of high school and starting a family. Of course, all the women in the family got married young or got pregnant and decided to get married. And at the end Darlene and David started becoming co-dependent on Roseanne and Dan after having a baby. So much for the successful daughter who went off the writing school.

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

She also had a codependent relationship with Landford.  She loved to run the town down as a place of broken dreams and losers, but was terrified to leave it.  I remember in the later episodes, I wanted to shake her when she is actually upset that Darlene got an early acceptance to a writing school in Chicago.  She was so selfish "because she did not want Darlene to leave her the way Becky did".  In the end of the episode she finally comes to her senses that this is a great opportunity for her daughter to escape their "Landford" lifestyle.

 

I always thought Roseanne was rather selfish any time an outsider tried to do anything nice for the kids. She ripped Bev a new one because Bev was going to buy Darlene a CD player, she refused the offer when Bev tried to give Becky her old car, she wouldn't let Cousin Ronnie use her connections to help Darlene become a writer and then she acted like a spoiled baby when Darlene finally got the opportunity to go to college. For as much as Roseanne claimed she wanted her daughters to go further than she ever did, she sure didn't act like it. 

[Bastet]

That "don't get above your raising" realism was one of my favorite things about the show.  Frustrating as hell, but totally realistic.

[Aja]

22 minutes ago, Bastet said:

That "don't get above your raising" realism was one of my favorite things about the show.  Frustrating as hell, but totally realistic.

Yes, agree! This is also evidenced in the episode where Darlene comes home from college and announces that she turned down a $30k a year job. Everyone treated her differently, and Dan admitted that just *knowing* she could command that kind of salary on her very first "real" job made them feel differently about her.

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, Aja said:

Yes, agree! This is also evidenced in the episode where Darlene comes home from college and announces that she turned down a $30k a year job. Everyone treated her differently, and Dan admitted that just *knowing* she could command that kind of salary on her very first "real" job made them feel differently about her.

I love the awkward, changed dynamic in that one, where Darlene is now a "them" rather than an "us" and thus all her snarky comments about Lanford, the Conner house, etc. now sting.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Bastet

[readster]

Something the show I did very right was why Roseanne and Jackie had problems with Bev because they grew up in a house where their father was abusive and she just let it happened. After Nanna Mary admitted that their parents got married because Bev was pregnant with Roseanne and a "good wife" stands by her husband no matter what. It was a situation that even years later messed them all up and yet other people like Nancy and even Fred were like: "Why are you so mean towards your mother?" Yet, the only one who got it was Dan due to his parents divorce and his father hiding his mother's mental problems. In his situation he hated his father because he believed and was lead to believe that his father cared more about paying the bills than raising the family. Even years later when the truth came out, Dan's father admitting he did screw up, but yes he felt he was protecting Dan from the truth, which we knew hit him hard when he learned the truth about everything. 

[bigskygirl]

I did find it interesting how Roseanne's parents went from being a little overbearing to her father being abusive and they had to get married. At first, they seemed like typical parents, but the writers had to change their storyline to getting married because Bev was pregnant, abuse, cheating father, and a mother who did not protect them. It was like they had to go to a very dark side to defend why Roseanne and Jackie turned out the way they did.

[readster]

4 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I did find it interesting how Roseanne's parents went from being a little overbearing to her father being abusive and they had to get married. At first, they seemed like typical parents, but the writers had to change their storyline to getting married because Bev was pregnant, abuse, cheating father, and a mother who did not protect them. It was like they had to go to a very dark side to defend why Roseanne and Jackie turned out the way they did.

I agree, because while the abusive father was because of Roseanne's own life. The entire: "cheating, and pregnant" never happened in real life at all. She came from a poor family where her parents had married under very normal circumstances, just that her father was horrible and the mother didn't really do anything. The episode that aired recently was where DJ was dared to steal the car and got caught and how Jackie acted when Roseanne spanked him repeatedly over doing something so stupid. Even Dan saying to Jackie how he had it coming because he could have killed someone. I did wonder just how stupid DJ had to do this on a dare not to mention being a pre-teen how he even was able to drive it and yet the friend who dared DJ was never shown or even a phone call about his place in all of it. This was also the situation where Leon wanted to buy Roseanne out, he still came across a smug asshole because he wanted the Lunchbox to go his way like at Robdell's and saw that Roseanne was the weak leak and turned Jackie and Nancy against her because Leon liked their ideas and Roseanne did. Then he did them, but let's face it. That is a typical person who is trying to push others out. They turn their coworkers/managers against them and then after that person is gone, they start pushing those people out and getting their own people in. Too bad, the writers didn't go there either. 

[bigskygirl]

I admit I hate it when writers take the actor or actress's real life story and make it part of the storyline. To me, if I wanted to know about their lives then they should make a television movie or write a book about it instead of selling it on the show. I also find it hard to believe Roseanne was making enough money for her family with the diner before Dan got his job with the city, but Jackie was able to get state medical care because she was pregnant while being a partner/owner of the diner and buying a house even with Bev helping her with the down payment. Of course, Jackie went along with Leon because he could help her earn more money from the diner without taking Fred's offer to help her because he was the father of her kid.

[readster]

14 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I admit I hate it when writers take the actor or actress's real life story and make it part of the storyline. To me, if I wanted to know about their lives then they should make a television movie or write a book about it instead of selling it on the show. I also find it hard to believe Roseanne was making enough money for her family with the diner before Dan got his job with the city, but Jackie was able to get state medical care because she was pregnant while being a partner/owner of the diner and buying a house even with Bev helping her with the down payment. Of course, Jackie went along with Leon because he could help her earn more money from the diner without taking Fred's offer to help her because he was the father of her kid.

That was the point they had to make with Leon being so accepted during that period of time. Something that bothered me about his character even when I was in my early double digits watching the show was how this guy was ever a manager of a food chain. If he was a former cook then I could see it. When we saw him in the first Vegas episode, he was very rude and an ass to the customers to the where Roseanne was never like that. I also remember when the investigation with the staff over his qualifications as a manager were called into question. We know that he took the manager job because of his boyfriend's business investment that didn't go anywhere. Explaining why he ended up as the manager at the mall. You also have to add into the fact that when he first left he went to take a promotion as district manager or something. I felt like Leon was this guy who got thrown into the food business. Got a a promotion because someone either left or was fired and he just ran with it and had great timing. I mean he ended up a food sanitation inspector when he showed up a few years later. Even in the 90s that isn't a job you just get. You have to have at least five years of food sanitation experience, a certificate and be able to teach classes. The timeline worked, but I felt the writers were just like: "Hey people get food manager and higher paying food paying jobs without really trying, let's say that with Leon." I mean if it wasn't for Bev giving her portion of the Lunchbox to Leon, I highly doubt he would have been able to be in a business model. I even remembering back then: "Where the hell is Leon getting the money buy Roseanne out?" I mean we know that the buy in with everyone when they did the Lunchbox was over $180K

[Dee]

1 hour ago, readster said:

I mean he ended up a food sanitation inspector when he showed up a few years later. Even in the 90s that isn't a job you just get. You have to have at least five years of food sanitation experience, a certificate and be able to teach classes. 

To be fair, Leon only seemed to land that job because he was sleeping with his boss.

[bigskygirl]

I thought Roseanne, Jackie and Nancy with Bev helping got the business for a little over $40,000. There was no way the girls could had afford the business even with Bev helping them out for $180,000 without some type of loan, and they were turned down for any type of loan or financial assistance. Plus the fact Bev did not have that type of money even after selling her house and any money she was getting from Roseanne's father. Leon was a jerk at times, but Roseanne must not have been all that great because Leon did try to get her a job in the mall, but none of the managers would hire her because she waited on them. In otherwords, the managers did not care for her attitude and lacking work ethics and skills. She was lucky Leon took her back after the crap she pulled. They must have been desperate to hire her in the first place because in real life, she probably would have been shown the door within a month after getting hired.

[ApathyMonger]

http://deadline.com/2017/04/roseanne-revival-roseanne-barr-john-goodman-sara-gilbert-1202078883

 

Quote

One of the biggest comedies of the 1990s, Roseanne, is making a comeback. I hear an eight-episode limited series revival of the hit ABC blue-collar family comedy is in the works with the key cast members reprising their roles, including Roseanne Barr, John Goodman and Sara Gilbert, with Laurie Metcalf and others in the process of joining them.

[Bastet]

How they explain Dan being alive will be quite interesting, but the core issues explored by the show are just as relevant today, so this is one of the few sitcom revivals I can get behind. 

[ruby24]

If they can just say Seasons 8 and 9 never existed, that'd be a good thing. There are few things I love more deeply than the first seven seasons of this show, and wow does it hold up well today. So caustic, raw and real. And funny.

If there was a way to recapture that kind of magic, that'd be amazing. But I won't get my hopes up.

[Dee]

Wow. I wonder how they'll handle Glenn Quinn's death.

[Aja]

Lecy? I hope Lecy!

Edited April 28, 2017 by Aja