Television Vs. Book: Why'd They Make [Spoiler] Such A [Spoiler]?

[Winnief]

 

The thing with Book Cersei is that GRRM really gets into her head and lays out all of her motivations. Her hatred of Tyrion, for example. Show viewers just think she irrationally hates Tyrion because he "killed" their mom -- while in the books, it's laid out that the prophecy is making her mad with fear, she thinks Tyrion is the valonqar who will kill her.

 

To be fair to the show, we never learned about the prophecy in the Books until AFFC, and the show is apparently doing a flashback/dream sequence to the prophecy next season according to casting calls.

 

 

I think D&D don't see themselves as "white-washing" Cersei so much as trying to give her some dimension and make her less cartoony as a villain.  Perhaps they're also hoping to draw a distinction so we can appreciate it more when she does start to lose it Tywin's death-they've already dropped hints she's unstable and that the stress is driving her to drink.  Once she finally gets the Regent seat all to herself and is in power she's gonna crack.  Big Time.

[Pete Martell]

Yeah, I bitched about this in the episode thread a bit, but both of these characters have been all over the place this season and I just don't get what the writers are trying to do with them. I was completely annoyed by Cersei's characterization in this finale. Cersei threatening to give up her position of power to protect her kids? But I complain about this after like every episode, so I think I just need to accept that TV Cersei is not Book Cersei and move on.

 

Next season I can see them having a falling out if Cersei finds out that Jaime helped Tyrion escape. Especially if Jaime feels guilty enough that he confesses everything to her. Otherwise I don't know. There's no Lancel and Kettleblack and Moon Boy involved here.

 

I hope they do start at least building up to R+L=J next season (well, if the theory is true), because otherwise it will wind up as some large info dump in the series' penultimate episode or something like that. O BY THE WAY Jon's parents are these people we've hardly talked about before, but it turns out his parentage is kind of a big deal!

 

I have a feeling the focus on Jon being Ned's son (mentioned in the finale very prominently) might be the start of that.

 

Cersei's behavior in the finale came across to me less as a mother protecting her children and more a very angry and desperate person who was fighting back against what she saw as a death sentence. She was verging on mania in some of those scenes, especially when she told Jaime that the people who would talk of them were so small she could not see them. This was a Cersei who had cast away her last few tethers to reality (which had mostly been based in fear).

 

I assume we could still hear about her relationships with other men (although I'd rather not, as I just don't think she's had that many and if Jaime gets upset about it I'm going to think less of him than I do of her), but I think there are a host of other things she may do that would push him away - her antics with Qyburn, her behavior toward the Tyrells (especially if he knows she sends Loras to his death), etc.

[Advance35]

But in the book wasn't that something Jaimie and Cersei cooked up together.  Jaimie cooked up the idea of how to get Mace Tyrell out of Kings Landing.

 

Wasn't Jaimie for the most part with Cersei in terms of undermining the Tyrells.   Warning her about Taena Merrywhether (though Cersei didn't listen) and advising her that they could eventually have Margaery Tyrell set aside after they've used the Tyrell forces to stabilize the realm.

 

I can't recall if he was in on the Loras part of Cersei's antics though.

 

I hope we get Olenna Tyrell back as I think she could help give some life to the Kings Landing scenes, or I at least want her there to secure and witness the marriage of Tommen and Margaery.

[Winnief]

 

I assume we could still hear about her relationships with other men (although I'd rather not, as I just don't think she's had that many and if Jaime gets upset about it I'm going to think less of him than I do of her), but I think there are a host of other things she may do that would push him away - her antics with Qyburn, her behavior toward the Tyrells (especially if he knows she sends Loras to his death), etc.

 

BINGO.  It's much more interesting if Jaime becomes estranged from her due to her being a horrible person and a terrible ruler then because she's had other lovers.  I could see Jaime being repelled at her sending Loras, (and a thousand of the Lannister's most loyal supporters) on a suicide mission, or because she gets so many dwarves killed, or her pettiness in the face of the Iron Born threat.  Or as you said Qyburn.  Or maybe her sending killers to the Wall to attack Jon.  Or maybe it turns out she didn't just mount a rescue mission for Myrcella but sent someone to kill Trystane as well.  There are literally dozens of heinous things she can do, that would make the scales fall from Jaime's eyes.  He was already growing uneasy last season about the drinking and her viciousness to Tyrion.  

 

 

I can't recall if he was in on the Loras part of Cersei's antics though.

 

He wasn't.  Jaime actually told Cersei she should let Loras be Tommen's Master of Arms since he was the best candidate for it, and it was a way to honor House Tyrell without really disturbing the balance of power-and he was NOT happy about the losses on Dragonstone.

 

Another factor, I think is that Jaime in AFFC was becoming increasingly bitter about the Lannister cause and his identity with is as was really apparent in his scenes in the Riverlands.  He didn't even bother hiding his contempt for the  Frey's and was clearly disgusted that the Lannister's were now allies to such trash.  One reason he seemed off his usual game when parleying with Blackfish is deep down he knew the Blackfish was right about everything. He had more respect for Blackwood than for Bracken and FAR more sympathy for Lord Piper demanding to know what had happened to his son Marq than any of the Frey's notable dry eyes over Ryman's hanging. He didn't even like Edmure but he still recognized that Edmure even as a hostage was more lordly than Jaime's uncle by marriage Emmon Frey . It didn't help matters that Jaime more than anyone knows damn well that the Starks and Tully's weren't "traitors" and just who it was that started the whole War.  Basically, Jaime concluded that the whole Lannister name and cause was stained and that he was going to have to find something else rather than being a Golden Lion to pin to.  

Edited June 17, 2014 by Winnief

[Pete Martell]

Oh, I had forgotten about her causing so many dwarves and children to be killed, and not stopping it because she's afraid Tyrion won't be caught (I haven't read that far into the books yet, so I saw it on a Wiki page). That would certainly be chilling, if they don't exclude that part (I know that may be too much, like Cersei killing Robert's illegitimate children).

But in the book wasn't that something Jaimie and Cersei cooked up together.  Jaimie cooked up the idea of how to get Mace Tyrell out of Kings Landing.

 

Wasn't Jaimie for the most part with Cersei in terms of undermining the Tyrells.   Warning her about Taena Merrywhether (though Cersei didn't listen) and advising her that they could eventually have Margaery Tyrell set aside after they've used the Tyrell forces to stabilize the realm.

 

I can't recall if he was in on the Loras part of Cersei's antics though.

 

I hope we get Olenna Tyrell back as I think she could help give some life to the Kings Landing scenes, or I at least want her there to secure and witness the marriage of Tommen and Margaery.

 

I didn't know he was in on any of her plans. It will be interesting to see if he is now, since the show seems to see him as good and proper.

 

I hope we see Olenna again too. The whole Tyrell family all but vanished halfway through. I'm not sure if it was budget, or due to Natalie Dormer's other projects, but it was jarring - even if they weren't actively involved in the main story (Tyrion's trial), we could have seen glimpses of them taking advantage of the Lannister sideshow to gain more public support.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Pete Martell

[blixie]

 

Show viewers just think she irrationally hates Tyrion because he "killed" their mom

 

As much issue as I take with Cersei being an evil bitch, this is the most understandable justification she has for hating Tyrion. His birth DID kill her mother, and it happened when she was a child, I think it's  perfectly logical she never really got over that, especially as he ended up being a hideous dwarf on top of having been the death of her mother. Her hatred of him makes perfect emotional sense, his intent/humanity means diddly shit in the face of her loss/pain.  I mean I agree that the prophecy bolsters her paranoia, as does the general disappointment of not being wed to Rhaegar has she was promised, but I've never questioned why she hates her little brother even before a AffC.

 

It doesn't justify her actions, torturing Tyrion, murdering Melara, demanding the death of Lady, raising Joffrey to be the special kind of monster he was, manipulating Lancel, murdering Robert, allowing Joff to behead Ned and torture Sansa, killing all of Robert's bastards, beating Alayaya, letting Qyburn have his way with people, plotting to have Margery put on trial. It really bothers me that she can't just be the horrible if understandable bitch she is in the books. 

 

 

 

more a very angry and desperate person who was fighting back against what she saw as a death sentence.

 

This makes zero sense, marrying Loras may "seem" like a death sentence, but admitting to Incest publicly actually IS a death sentence and not just for her but for Tommen, Myrcella, and Jamie. As much as I dislike Cersei and don't think she's that smart, she's definitely not that stupid.

[Pete Martell]

This makes zero sense, marrying Loras may "seem" like a death sentence, but admitting to Incest publicly actually IS a death sentence and not just for her but for Tommen, Myrcella, and Jamie. As much as I dislike Cersei and don't think she's that smart, she's definitely not that stupid.

 

Cersei likely knew her father would back down if she called his bluff, but even if he hadn't, I truly believe in her mind, public exposure was better than being sent to Highgarden with Loras. That would have made her completely and totally irrelevant, on top of a lifetime of being made to feel irrelevant by every man in her life but Jaime. I think to her that would have been a long, slow death.

As much issue as I take with Cersei being an evil bitch, this is the most understandable justification she has for hating Tyrion. His birth DID kill her mother, and it happened when she was a child, I think it's  perfectly logical she never really got over that, especially as he ended up being a hideous dwarf on top of having been the death of her mother. Her hatred of him makes perfect emotional sense, his intent/humanity means diddly shit in the face of her loss/pain.  I mean I agree that the prophecy bolsters her paranoia, as does the general disappointment of not being wed to Rhaegar has she was promised, but I've never questioned why she hates her little brother even before a AffC.

 

I would imagine that Tywin also did a lot to encourage her hatred of Tyrion when she was a child.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Maximum Taco]

This makes zero sense, marrying Loras may "seem" like a death sentence, but admitting to Incest publicly actually IS a death sentence and not just for her but for Tommen, Myrcella, and Jamie. As much as I dislike Cersei and don't think she's that smart, she's definitely not that stupid.

 

Cersei's pretty delusional.

 

She seems to think she has a lot of power and protection when a lot of that power is either a paper shield, or comes from outer sources. Hilariously she's making the same wrong assumptions Ned Stark did in season one.

 

Ned thought that Robert's death bed endorsement, his position as Hand and the swords he got from Littlefinger protected him enough to make his move. He didn't realize you can't really count on men that aren't your own, and your own absolutely, and that an order given by an old King doesn't really matter once he's dead.

 

Cersei thinks that Tommen's position as King (read: her position as Queen) and the Lannister swords protect her. She isn't thinking things through that if she goes ahead with her plan, her father, not her, will command the Lannister men, the Tyrells will command the rest of King's Landing's standing army, and Tommen will have no legitimacy to rule, which will remove her own legitimacy. Her power, just like Ned's, is very transient and it's hard for her to see that when right now she's one of the most powerful people in the Kingdoms.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Holmbo]

Lots of interesting speculations that I haven't had time to read until now. I'll just respond to snippets in a lot of different ones.
 

Yes I think Varys will meet up with Illyio in Pentos and then make his way back to Kings Landing to kill Kevan and set things in play for season 6. He just needs to get out of Kings Landing post Tywin's murder.

This is what I expect too. I'm still hoping for fake Aegon being included. Mostly because I want Varys to still have a long game and it was introduced in season one so it would be pretty cool to keep it in. Anyways Varys going with Tyrion to Pentos would make a good opportunity for him to interact with Illyrio again and remind people that they had a scene before.
Also I was kinda hoping for a scene with him and Tyrion on the ship to Pentos where Tyrion would be all self destructive drinking like crazy and Varys would do epic eye rolls wondering why he even bothered to free him. But when I think of it Tyrion's probably just gonna be stuck in that box the whole trip and not let out until they're at Illyrio's place.

There's a lot going on in the North so I wouldn't be surprised if things like Val, Mance's son and Sam leaving aren't streamlined or dumped altogether. As Jon knows his younger brothers are alive there's even less reason for him to be tempted by Stannis' offer. In the books more was made of his desire to be a true Stark. The reason he gives Mance for joining the Wildlings is that he wasn't good enough to sit at with his siblings when important guests were visiting in the show it's about the White Walkers. Not that it would stop D&D but the build-up isn't there for the promise of Winterfell to be as alluring as it was in the books.  

 

 

I don't think Sam's going anywhere either-no one's mentioned an Oldtown set and he can do research just as easily at the Wall.  No Mance's baby switcheroo, no Val (Jon already has Mance and Tormund on hand to negotiate with anyway,) and even if Stannis does offer Jon WF it won't be that big a deal.  My guess is they want to keep moving so they can get Stannis and his men moving on WF, get Lord Commander Jon to make peace with the Wildlings, and then have him assassinated-with Mel probably bringing him back in Episode 10 with the help of a human sacrifice.  (Pray to the Old Gods and the New it won't be Shireen but rather Theon in front of a Weirwood tree to put him out of his misery.) They've clearly set it up for Mel to at least try to sacrifice Shireen-whether she succeeds or not.

 

Aw I want Sam to go to Old Town to learn magic and to interact with his dad pretending that the baby is his bastard (specailly now when it seems the baby will be Sam jr and not Mance's kid). But I guess I'd be ok with them cutting the trip if it turned out to not be important.

With Jon I could still see him being tempted at accepting the position as Lord of Winterfell. He knows that Bran is beyond the wall (possibly dead) and that Rickon is just a tiny child still. His best way of helping them would be to take up the Stark banner and take back the North so that they would have a safe place to return to. He might feel bad about taking the title from Bran but if the alternative would be for the Stark to possibly not even be Warden of the North he might feel it favorable. Who else could he trust to lead the Stark's retake of Winterfell? (Oh by the way does he know Rickon is alive? He must assume right?)

 

Ordering a teenager brutally gangraped and making your son participate to prove a point isn't sadism? Encouraging the torture and slaughter of civilians as a deliberate strategy isn't evil? Breaking the greatest taboo of your society is lawful? Almost every character in this faux-medieval world thinks that Tywin is a brutal man who goes too far and one of those utterly unnecessary instances of brutality ultimately got him killed by his son. Tywin's approach is the reason why Westeros is full of houses that want to see the Lannisters go down and are eager to murder even his grandchildren in the name of revenge. I'm not surprised, but it's still sad to have confirmation that the showrunners buy into the Hard Man Making Hard Choices hype and don't get that war crimes aren't just idle chatter about abstract morality, if they're accepted and become standard practice the way they were for Tywin it can cause society to break down instead of saving it with awesome ruthlessness.

 

But if that's what they say about Tywin, no wonder the show ended up with Saint Tyrion. He's the lesser evil in the books; on the show, that makes him Lawful Good.

Hmm yes that seems like the wrong take on Tywin. I can understand why Dance would want to think that way about him because no character would think themselves as the villain so it's probably more helpfull for him to see things from Tywin's point of view. But the writers should understand that these things are not ok, even in that society. They're just thinking the ends justify the means when there isn't really an end just a continued process of society where the means really become the ends in shaping that society (I'm not sure anyone will understand what I'm trying to say with that sentence, oh well)

 

Cersei is REALLY Tywin's son because of her complete lack of scruples and a hypocritical view of what family is.

I also feel that book Cersei and Tywin is quiet similar in that they both seem to be pretty much narcisist. Only caring about things as an reflection of themselves. It seems that in the book Cersei love Jaime and her children because she feels they reflect herself. And it could be argued that Tywin's obsession about legacy is just about him. About living something of himself after his dead.

 

While I remain optimistic that we'll see Lady Stoneheart eventually, I don't expect the writers to return to the Tysha deception. The more I think about it, the more I'm coming around to the idea that the show doesn't need to establish that Tyrion had this great and true love whom Tywin turned into a whore -- because that's exactly what they just showed us with Shae. Once they decided that Shae's love for her lion was real, Tysha's original purpose becomes redundant.

 

More than redundant, in fact. In the books, the point of the Tysha double-cross is to reveal to Tyrion how he got so twisted up that he thought a gold-digging whore like Shae was his true love: because once he did have a true love, and his father deceived him into believing she was just a gold-digging whore. That's what enraged Tyrion enough to send him after his father on a mission of revenge -- the idea that this wrong committed long ago is what led him to his current state of depredation. If show-Tyrion is still genuinely capable of finding true love with Shae, the Tysha deception is no longer something that scarred him forever and led directly to his current woes, it's just a random awful thing his father did to him before the story started.

 

Better to have Tyrion go after Tywin for what he's done to him in the course of the tale, and for Tysha's role to become subordinate as Shae's becomes more significant. Tyrion's first wife becomes, then, the hopelessly naive teenage folly he fears he has repeated with Shae. I'm not sure it's meaningful for her to be more than that in this version of the story.

 

And, really, we should have suspected they might go this way after Shae's reaction to the Tysha story back in season 1: "You should have known she was a whore. . . . A girl who is almost raped doesn't invite another man into her bed two hours later."

I've never thought of that paragraph in that light before. You might very well be right in that it's a hint from writers that there's nothing more to the Tysha part in the show than what's been told.
Since they skipped it in this last episode I'm pretty sure it's not going to come up again. It's probably difficult to make viewers care about some back story that is just told about and never seen. Most people just assume it's there to provide some "orgin story" for Tyrion, explaining his relationship with Jaime and with Tywin and his hang up on prostitutes.

 

I think D&D don't see themselves as "white-washing" Cersei so much as trying to give her some dimension and make her less cartoony as a villain.  Perhaps they're also hoping to draw a distinction so we can appreciate it more when she does start to lose it Tywin's death-they've already dropped hints she's unstable and that the stress is driving her to drink.  Once she finally gets the Regent seat all to herself and is in power she's gonna crack.  Big Time.

I actually prefer the show version of Cersei to the book. Darker character isn't necessary more interesting. I feel like in the show one can sympathies with Cersei about some things while still finding her totally despicable most other times. I agree that her cracking will be made clear when she tries to rule and fails to kill Tyrion or get rid of the Tyrells despite having all the power.
By the way I assume Margaery and Tommen marriage will still have to happen for plot reasons and I wonder how the show will make it happen.

[Maximum Taco]

I actually prefer the show version of Cersei to the book. Darker character isn't necessary more interesting. I feel like in the show one can sympathies with Cersei about some things while still finding her totally despicable most other times. I agree that her cracking will be made clear when she tries to rule and fails to kill Tyrion or get rid of the Tyrells despite having all the power.

By the way I assume Margaery and Tommen marriage will still have to happen for plot reasons and I wonder how the show will make it happen.

 

It doesn't seem to me like it'll be a huge problem.

 

Cersei can't outright cancel the marriage, because that would dissolve the alliance. When she tries to delay it, Margaery (or Olenna) can make some veiled threat about how the Tyrells have been away from home for a long time and they need to see to matters of defending and feeding the Reach. So, the Tyrells, their army and their food will return to Highgarden and Cersei can send for them when she wants the wedding to take place.

 

Cersei won't be able to let the realm starve and thusly the Tyrells will get their wedding. This also will plant the grudge deeper in Cersei and can trigger the House of Cards storyline where she seeks to ruin Margaery.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[benteen]

I REALLY don't see the appeal in shipping Jaime/Cersei.  Even if they weren't siblings, that relationship is just toxic.

[Winnief]

 

I REALLY don't see the appeal in shipping Jaime/Cersei.  Even if they weren't siblings, that relationship is just toxic.

 

Seriously.  Sometimes the incest part seems to be the LEAST creepy thing about it.  

[magdalene]

 

Seriously.  Sometimes the incest part seems to be the LEAST creepy thing about it.

Well, I don't think the incest  is the sickest thing about it.  The sickest to me is the imbalance in that relationship - that for Jaime Cersei was always the only one and he loves her truly, while Cersei's "love" for Jaime is reflected self-love and manipulation. At least in the books Jaime finally woke up and started to see Cersei more clear-eyed. It's amazing that it took him so long because Jaime going by his POVs  is actually a pretty smart guy with a lot of good sense in observing people. And he has genuine empathy - this Cersei completely lacks. Yes, that relationship is toxic and the incest is the least of it.

 

Sometimes I believe that where GRRM is going with the Cersei/Jaime thing is Jaime finally being the one to kill her, not Tyrion. It wouldn't negate that prophesy because Cersei was born first and then Jaime. So he is the younger twin.

[benteen]

I posted this in the speculation thread but I meant to post it here.  D and D talk about Season 5.  Interesting stuff...

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/18/game-of-thrones-season-5/

 

One of the comments was "Who wouldn't want to spend time in Dorne?"  My answer is a lot of people who have read A Feast for Crows.

[Winnief]

 

One of the comments was "Who wouldn't want to spend time in Dorne?"  My answer is a lot of people who have read A Feast for Crows.

 

Ha!  Fortunately from what's been leaked so far, it sounds like the show's going to make it a LOT more lively and having characters we already care about, (Bronn and Jaime) in on the action should help as well.  

 

Also good to hear AGAIN they're planning on seven seasons-gives me ammo against some delusional types at ASOIAF who think Dany's story next year will end with the Pit and that the battles of Mereen and Wintefell won't take place until Season 6.  Unlike Martin, the show can't afford to dawdle endlessly-Dany's setting for Westeros at the end of next season.  

[benteen]

The thing I worry about is Jaime's excursion to Dorne is going to be another Yara goes to the Dreadfort storyline.  We get some exciting but ultimately pointless action and everything stays the same.  Jaime needs to be the Riverlands along with Brienne.

 

Neil Marshall mentioned he wouldn't be back next season but if they ever needed another battle sequence, he'd like to be there.  I'm hoping he'll get the Battle of Winterfell.

[Gudzilla]

 

When it comes to the show I find that being a Jaime fan is one of the hardest things

Try being a Stannis fan. ;) I agree about Jaime though.

[Winnief]

I think they do a pretty good job with Jaime as long as he's not with Cersei.  Yet another reason I'm pleased he's going to Dorne next season and then straight to the Riverlands.

 

Also cheer up Stannis fans!  Things are looking up for him now that he's at the Wall.  In that battle scene SD never looked more Kingly (or sexy) then riding up on that horse.  And they do have the right tone for Stannis/Jon and I look forward to more of that.  Of course, now the big fear is that they'll get everyone to start appreciating Stannis just in time to kill him off.  

[Maximum Taco]

Ha!  Fortunately from what's been leaked so far, it sounds like the show's going to make it a LOT more lively and having characters we already care about, (Bronn and Jaime) in on the action should help as well.  

 

Also they seem to be expanding the roles of the Sand Snakes, who are immensely more intriguing than Arianne. Although I do hope Arianne is there too.

[Minneapple]

I loved Jaime's Riverlands arc in AFFC. That was IMO when his real character change took place. It was like he actually grew up. His monologues with Ser Payne, practicing fighting with his left hand, those were all great.

 

If they send him to Dorne on the show I won't be surprised since they'll probably be spending a lot of money on location filming and need to make it worthwhile. I just hope his character development actually reflects what happened in the books.

[benteen]

I hope we eventually get Jaime's treat with the Blackfish.  Even in TV Blackfish is nothing like Book Blackfish.  Who knows when him and the Riverlands will pop up again.

 

Speaking of characters who didn't appear in Season 4...

 

-Gendry.  I still think he's to meet up with Brienne and Pod.

 

-Osha and Rickon.  This wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't for the fact that they were sent to the Last Hearth instead of Skagos.

[Winnief]

 

Also they seem to be expanding the roles of the Sand Snakes, who are immensely more intriguing than Arianne. Although I do hope Arianne is there too.

 

Yeah, I don't think it escaped D&D's notice that the Sand Snakes were true badasses while Arianne-not so much.  

 

 

 

I loved Jaime's Riverlands arc in AFFC. That was IMO when his real character change took place. It was like he actually grew up. His monologues with Ser Payne, practicing fighting with his left hand, those were all great.

If they send him to Dorne on the show I won't be surprised since they'll probably be spending a lot of money on location filming and need to make it worthwhile. I just hope his character development actually reflects what happened in the books.

I'll miss the sparring with the Blackfish, but I'm hoping we can see some of Jaime's enlightenment in his scenes with Bronn.

 

 

 

-Gendry.  I still think he's to meet up with Brienne and Pod.

-Osha and Rickon.  This wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't for the fact that they were sent to the Last Hearth instead of Skagos.

 

Agree about Gendry.  The thing with Osha and Rickon is I think they're being kept off screen until they *matter* again-i.e. Rickon becomes a figure for the North to rally around.  Wouldn't be surprised if they give Manderly's role to the Umber's.

[Pete Martell]

I posted this in the speculation thread but I meant to post it here.  D and D talk about Season 5.  Interesting stuff...

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/18/game-of-thrones-season-5/

 

One of the comments was "Who wouldn't want to spend time in Dorne?"  My answer is a lot of people who have read A Feast for Crows.

 

The way that answer was worded (something about it's so wonderful there and people are so nice) makes me wonder if they're going to have Dorne as some type of secret hellhole. Given that Oberyn and Ellaria were both written as pretty cool people, I would think not, but I don't know.

Also good to hear AGAIN they're planning on seven seasons-gives me ammo against some delusional types at ASOIAF who think Dany's story next year will end with the Pit and that the battles of Mereen and Wintefell won't take place until Season 6.  Unlike Martin, the show can't afford to dawdle endlessly-Dany's setting for Westeros at the end of next season.  

 

One of the reasons I question what her finale scenes will be is because I can see them thinking that Dany flying away on Drogon would be an awesome final scene for season 5. I think they dragged Arya's story out way too much this season and I felt like it was pretty clearly just so the last shot of the season could be Arya on that ship. 

 

I could see them thinking there's a season of material for Dany continuing to falter in Meereen - the dragons escaping, her relationship with Hizdar, the masters regaining some power in the city. 

 

I do wonder if we're going to see Daario again (I hope not) or if they're going to say he was captured in Yunkai. Wasn't he captured in the books?

[gemmalogical]

 

-Gendry.  I still think he's to meet up with Brienne and Pod.

 

Joe Dempsie put out a cryptic tweet: "Still rowin'." I've seen speculation that this means we'll see Gendry again, but it could also imply that Gendry is still in limbo. I hope not.

 

After reading the EW interview with Alex Graves, I'm not certain we'll ever see Stoneheart.

 

But to bring back Michelle Fairley, one of the greatest actresses around, to be a zombie for a little while — and just kill people? It is really sort of, what are we doing with that? How does it play into the whole story in a way that we’re really going to like?

The quote references season 4 and he leaves the season 5 answer open ended, but it seems to me that the same logic that applied to S4 would also apply to S5.

 

I've always thought that the confrontation of Jaime and Stoneheart would not be as simple as Brienne delivering him for execution. Depending on how it plays out, D&D may consider her superfluous.

 

I really like the idea of Varys and Tyrion on a road trip, but I suspect they will part company if the show does Griff/Young Griff. Tyrion will join up with Jorah and make for Meereen and Varys will join the invaders so the audience has a familiar face among that crowd. I doubt Septa Lemore will be with them, so I'll have to wait for GRRM to tell me if she's really Ashara Dayne.

[Pete Martell]

I think the material for season 5 makes a Stoneheart return more logical than season 4 would have - we should be seeing more in the North, with Sansa and Littlefinger needing more to do, Rickon still being off somewhere with Osha, Gendry still around somewhere, The Hound likely back in some capacity, the Boltons ending their story this season on a huge personal high, Winterfell becoming important to the story again, Asha clearly being reintroduced for some reason, and "Reek" starting to turn back into Theon. Having some of these characters talking about Freys being found hanged (or if the show is going to downplay the Frey involvement, having Bolton men hanged) would set up more chaos. There is also the theme which started at the end of the season and should be playing out further next season, that being the theme of death and rebirth - The Mountain will likely be back as a literal monster, Tyrion will have to start over from scratch, Dany will lose the last of what she was.

 

Sansa, Bran, and Arya have all surrendered their Stark identities, just in time for Jon, who had such a traumatic history with Catelyn and who has become increasingly active in patching his family back together and being known as Ned Stark's son, to become the only true Stark on the show. If he becomes more involved in the North, that would also mean more of a role for Stoneheart. 

 

And I'm not sure what they'd do with Brienne otherwise. She still mentions Catelyn all the time, and she's still going to be aimlessly wandering around looking for Sansa. I doubt she'll find her, as there isn't much story room for Sansa in a crumbling King's Landing, and a Sansa/Brienne/Pod road trip wouldn't be all that enthralling. 

 

I'm not really even sure I want to see Stoneheart, as I dread such a fascinating character just being known in fandom as some (insert slur here) who is so mean to poor Brienne and Brienne/Jaime OTP, but I do think season 5 has a big place for her.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Winnief]

 

One of the reasons I question what her finale scenes will be is because I can see them thinking that Dany flying away on Drogon would be an awesome final scene for season 5. I think they dragged Arya's story out way too much this season and I felt like it was pretty clearly just so the last shot of the season could be Arya on that ship.

 

See, I think they'll want the final shot next season to be either Dany, Tyrion, and the fleet sailing off from Mereen dragons flying high OR Jon's resurrection.  I just don't see D&D wanting to stall anymore on Dany's storyline.  

 

 

 

I think the material for season 5 makes a Stoneheart return more logical than season 4 would have - we should be seeing more in the North, with Sansa and Littlefinger needing more to do, Rickon still being off somewhere with Osha, Gendry still around somewhere, The Hound likely back in some capacity, the Boltons ending their story this season on a huge personal high, Winterfell becoming important to the story again, Asha clearly being reintroduced for some reason, and "Reek" starting to turn back into Theon. Having some of these characters talking about Freys being found hanged (or if the show is going to downplay the Frey involvement, having Bolton men hanged) would set up more chaos. There is also the theme which started at the end of the season and should be playing out further next season, that being the theme of death and rebirth - The Mountain will likely be back as a literal monster, Tyrion will have to start over from scratch, Dany will lose the last of what she was.

Sansa, Bran, and Arya have all surrendered their Stark identities, just in time for Jon, who had such a traumatic history with Catelyn and who has become increasingly active in patching his family back together and being known as Ned Stark's son, to become the only true Stark on the show. If he becomes more involved in the North, that would also mean more of a role for Stoneheart.

 

I agree with your take on it except I don't think they'll be minimizing Frey involvement at all.  Remember they had Bran telling the Rat Cook story and how the Gods hate those who violate guest right-then they cut to Walder.  There was too much emphasis on Walder's unseemly gloating, (as the maids scrubbed the blood off the floors) in 3:10.  Too much telegraphing what a greedy, spiteful petty bastard he was.  And his line how he wasn't worried about the Blackfish escaping, "I've got Tywin Lannister-what's he got?"  was obvious foreshadowing.  I'm betting Season Five things are going to go downhill very quickly for House Frey and House Bolton now they've no longer got Twyin to offer any protection.  Even if the rest of House Lannister wanted to protect the Flayed Men and Weasels they couldn't-they're going to have far too many problems of their own. Can't wait to see the look on the Frey's faces when it starts to dawn on them that betting heavily on House Lannister wasn't such a great move after all.  For Roose, (who I don't think had any illusions about the Lannister's being eternally grateful,) it's going to be the realization of what everyone else already knew-namely that absolutely nobody in the North high born or smallfolk wanted a House known for torture shenanigans running things.  I for one am going to love every minute of it.  My gloating will be even more unseemly than Walder's!

Edited June 19, 2014 by Winnief

[Skeeter22]

I would actually be shocked if the show didn't have Arriane. After all, how could they pass up an opportunity to show her giant nipples, as GRRM lovingly and repeatedly described, on screen?

 

Seriously, I'd hate for them to pass on a character who at least shows that some parts of Westeros do allow women to inherit. They've gone out of their way to avoid referencing women who are legitimately in power. Even poor Lady Tanda got changed into a male when Bronn was explaining Lollys's place in succession.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Skeeter22

[KatWay]

I feel like Dany on Drogon will HAVE to be the final shot of next season for the same reason Arya on ship was the one in this season: that is going to be very expensive to produce. The dragons alone cost a shit ton of money and anything flying is usually expensive as hell too, especially if they want the wide shot and the landscape etc.

[mac123x]

-Osha and Rickon.  This wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't for the fact that they were sent to the Last Hearth instead of Skagos.

 

They've altered Rickon's story quite a bit, since Davos is at the Wall rather than trying to reach White Harbor, and the Stark boys didn't split up at Winterfell, so there was no way for Wex to follow Osha / Rickon and know where they were going.  (In the books that was implausible anyway; did Wex tail them all the way from Winterfell to a boat with a "Next Stop: Skaagos" sign on it?)

 

On the S3 DVD, one of the commentary tracks for the Rains of Castamere had Michelle Fairley on it.  She mentioned that she ran into the actress that plays Osha, who was really excited because she didn't get a parting-gift at the end of S3.  She took that to mean that she was coming back. Obviously that didn't happen in S4, but might in the future.  I wouldn't be surprised if they recast RIckon though, given their track record for retaining young actors other than the 3 main Starks.

[elzin]

I'm not excited about Jaime going to Dorne AT ALL.  I too think his Riverlands adventures made for good reading. I get they may not make great tv, but Dorne instead?  It'll be like watching Locke this year, knowing that nothing he does is really that important because it's not from the books. So yeah, he might save Myrcella, but then what? Is he going to take her back to King's Landing?

 

And as for Lady Stoneheart, as much as it pains me, MF doesn't have to play her. She's hooded and scarred and had been dead in a river for several days. She doesn't even speak, so voice doesn't matter at all.  A similar-enough looking actress and someone calling her Catelyn would be fine. Ideally MF would come back and continue to be awesome, but even more ideally she'd have shown up already...

[Maximum Taco]

See, I think they'll want the final shot next season to be either Dany, Tyrion, and the fleet sailing off from Mereen dragons flying high OR Jon's resurrection.  I just don't see D&D wanting to stall anymore on Dany's storyline.  

 

I agree.

 

Based on the show's track record I'd expect episode 9 next season to be the Battle of Meereen and also possibly Battle in the Ice (or whatever they call the Bolton/Stannis encounter)

 

That seems like the only way they can up the stakes. Double up on the battle.

 

That leaves episode 10 for wrap up, which would be Dany sailing for Westeros.

[Unknown poster]

They've altered Rickon's story quite a bit, since Davos is at the Wall rather than trying to reach White Harbor, and the Stark boys didn't split up at Winterfell, so there was no way for Wex to follow Osha / Rickon and know where they were going.  (In the books that was implausible anyway; did Wex tail them all the way from Winterfell to a boat with a "Next Stop: Skaagos" sign on it?)

 

On the S3 DVD, one of the commentary tracks for the Rains of Castamere had Michelle Fairley on it.  She mentioned that she ran into the actress that plays Osha, who was really excited because she didn't get a parting-gift at the end of S3.  She took that to mean that she was coming back. Obviously that didn't happen in S4, but might in the future.  I wouldn't be surprised if they recast RIckon though, given their track record for retaining young actors other than the 3 main Starks.

Agreed with Jamie to Dorne, at least on the surface. The only thing I can think of, is they want a well known and popular character to interact with the Martells. Otherwise, you would have at least six new characters, in a new location, all pretty insulated. That might turn off some viewers, as it did some book readers.

[debi49]

Maybe they should have sent Rickon and Osha to Howland Reed, instead of the unknown Umbers. If they are going to deal with the R + L =J business, isn't Howland the only one who knows the truth?

[Maximum Taco]

Maybe they should have sent Rickon and Osha to Howland Reed, instead of the unknown Umbers. If they are going to deal with the R + L =J business, isn't Howland the only one who knows the truth?

 

In the books that's true.

 

In the show we have gotten very little information about what happened.

 

All we know in the show is that Howland Reed fought in the rebellion and one time he saved Ned's life. As book readers we can infer that he's probably talking about the Tower of Joy, but we can't say it for sure. Also as book readers we know that in the books only Ned and Howland walked away from the Tower of Joy alive, but we don't know that's what happened in the show.

 

In fact the Tower of Joy is never mentioned in the show. All the information we get about that encounter is the really quick scene where Joffrey is reading the White Book, on Ser Gerold Hightower's page it says he Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Oswell Whent were defeated and killed in the Red Mountains of Dorne by a force led by Eddard Stark, no mention is made of Lyanna.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[Minneapple]

Agreed with Jamie to Dorne, at least on the surface. The only thing I can think of, is they want a well known and popular character to interact with the Martells. Otherwise, you would have at least six new characters, in a new location, all pretty insulated. That might turn off some viewers, as it did some book readers.

Yes, this was my thinking. They're undoubtedly spending a lot of money filming in Spain, so they'll want a character that people are already invested in to drive that storyline. For Jaime's character he doesn't have to go to the Riverlands, just get away from Cersei and have time to reflect. Like I said, I just hope it keeps true at least to the spirit of his character development in the books.

I think Dany on Drogon will end next season. Or -- Jon dying. Maybe they'll save his resurrection for the season six premiere.

[Winnief]

 

They've altered Rickon's story quite a bit, since Davos is at the Wall rather than trying to reach White Harbor, and the Stark boys didn't split up at Winterfell, so there was no way for Wex to follow Osha / Rickon and know where they were going.  (In the books that was implausible anyway; did Wex tail them all the way from Winterfell to a boat with a "Next Stop: Skaagos" sign on it?)

 

That always annoyed me about the book.  It really was a deux ex machina so we could get a detour to Skagos and for Martin to engage in even more world building.  

Personally I would have just preferred if they got out with it, that there's a living Stark heir in hiding for the North to rally around-which I imagine is exactly what they'll do on the show for the upcoming Battle of Ice.  I think they're through dragging things out to the extent Martin did.  They've only got three seasons left; it's time to get moving.

 

 

For Jaime's character he doesn't have to go to the Riverlands, just get away from Cersei and have time to reflect. Like I said, I just hope it keeps true at least to the spirit of his character development in the books.

 

That's what I'm thinking will happen-Jaime's spiritual journey can take place just about anywhere-as long as it's not KL or CR.  And he's going to have a LOT to process in the wake of Tywin's death and Bronn's not afraid to challenge him.  

[Pete Martell]

Since we can't talk about book material in the ranking thread, does anyone want to rank the way the show handled the book material this season, from best to worst?

 

I'm especially curious to see if people felt that Dany's story was as bad on the show as many people seem to say it was in the books once she got to Meereen. The first half of the season was lackluster (sometimes worse than lackluster) and not all that well acted for me, but once they moved on from Daario flirting with her and all the "I will do what a queen does" stuff, I thought the last 3-4 episodes of the season were pretty good for her story. I'd actually say they had some of the strongest material she's had since the end of season 1. I feel like most of the scenes showing her struggle to rule worked as interesting social commentary, and had some really good guest actors (especially Hizdahr), instead of just being dull internal politicking.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Pete Martell

[mac123x]

I think Dany on Drogon will end next season.

 

Do you mean flying off from the fighting pit?  If so, her plot line is really going to drag.  I mean, there is some material to work with (Sons of the Harpy attacks, the politcking with that ends in her marrying Hizdar, even the Quentin stuff) but seven hells that would be dull.

 

Maybe they'll have her fly off on Drogon in Ep 4, then be absent for a few episodes (cough Bran cough), with a triumphant return on Drogon's back, leading Kal 's riders against the army besieging Meereen.

[jjjmoss]

I feel like Dany on Drogon will HAVE to be the final shot of next season for the same reason Arya on ship was the one in this season: that is going to be very expensive to produce.

 

Except I'm pretty sure the network knows that OMG DRAGONS has a huge, huge appeal for the viewers and provides iconic images. While Arya on a ship does...not as much. I mean, she spends like a whole half a chapter on that ship. In theory they could have only shown her getting on the ship instead of seeing her start sailing and looking back. While the whole basis for Dany being able to conquer Westeros is her being the mother of dragons, and riding a dragon isn't something you can just half-ass.

 

I wonder if they'll feel the need to have both LSH w/the Frey and LSH w/Brienne...

Edited June 19, 2014 by jjjmoss

[Unknown poster]

That always annoyed me about the book.  It really was a deux ex machina so we could get a detour to Skagos and for Martin to engage in even more world building.  

Personally I would have just preferred if they got out with it, that there's a living Stark heir in hiding for the North to rally around-which I imagine is exactly what they'll do on the show for the upcoming Battle of Ice.  I think they're through dragging things out to the extent Martin did.  They've only got three seasons left; it's time to get moving.

 

 

That's what I'm thinking will happen-Jaime's spiritual journey can take place just about anywhere-as long as it's not KL or CR.  And he's going to have a LOT to process in the wake of Tywin's death and Bronn's not afraid to challenge him.

Hearing the rumors of an expanded Trystane/Mrycella relationship gave me an idea. On the surface, Jamie to Dorne feels like filler, since we know he can't actually be successful in retrieving the princess, and obviously he won't end up dead or a hostage. But what if upon his arrival, he sees how (presumably) happy and well treated Mrycella is, and ultimately decides to leave her be. No doubt that wouldn't sit well with Cersai, and the ensuing fallout could advance the plot line of their breakup considerably.

[Winnief]

 

Hearing the rumors of an expanded Trystane/Mrycella relationship gave me an idea. On the surface, Jamie to Dorne feels like filler, since we know he can't actually be successful in retrieving the princess, and obviously he won't end up dead or a hostage. But what if upon his arrival, he sees how (presumably) happy and well treated Mrycella is, and ultimately decides to leave her be. No doubt that wouldn't sit well with Cersai, and the ensuing fallout could advance the plot line of their breakup considerably.

 

That's actually a really plausible theory.  Jaime might well decide that Myrcella's better off in the Water Garden's then King's Landing.  

 

 

Except I'm pretty sure the network knows that OMG DRAGONS has a huge, huge appeal for the viewers and provides iconic images. While Arya on a ship does...not as much. I mean, she spends like a whole half a chapter on that ship. In theory they could have only shown her getting on the ship instead of seeing her start sailing and looking back. While the whole basis for Dany being able to conquer Westeros is her being the mother of dragons, and riding a dragon isn't something you can just half-ass.

 

What about three MASSIVE dragons flying over an armada of ships?!?  That sounds like one helluva of an image.  Hell Dany, could try riding Drogon while he's flying and the ships are in motion.

 

 

he first half of the season was lackluster (sometimes worse than lackluster) and not all that well acted for me, but once they moved on from Daario flirting with her and all the "I will do what a queen does" stuff, I thought the last 3-4 episodes of the season were pretty good for her story. I'd actually say they had some of the strongest material she's had since the end of season 1. I feel like most of the scenes showing her struggle to rule worked as interesting social commentary, and had some really good guest actors (especially Hizdahr), instead of just being dull internal politicking.

 

Agreed.  But again the fact they've so successfully established the troubles and contradictions of Dany's reign and introduced Hizdahr etc, is further evidence that they're moving Dany's story line on screen more quickly than in the books.  They laid the groundwork there specifically so they can have what needs to happen next season in Mereen for Dany to be leaving it at the end of the season.  And I wouldn't be surprised if Varys plays a role in that.

[benteen]

Jaime's spiritual journey is the most important thing but to me it has to happen in the Riverlands.  He returns to the place where he led a Lannister war party and was captured.  He's still loyal to the Crown but is trying to maintain the oath he swore to Catelyn not to take up arms against the North and the Riverlands.  Not that the thoughts of Catelyn Stark have ever mattered to D and D.  They didn't consider it important enough to show Catelyn make Jaime swear that oath.

 

It seems the show like to pretend during odd seasons that the Riverlands don't exist.  Robb doesn't even consider them a part of his kingdom when he sends peace offerings to the Lannisters.  We got some references to the Freys but I think the only reference we got this season was a throwaway line by Brienne stating that Walder Frey was now the lord of Riverrun.

 

The Riverlands is important to the future of this war and it will give the audiences a chance to see the ones who most betrayed the Starks finally get what's coming to them.  Jaime and Brienne's destinies are likely going to be determined in the Riverlands and that's not going to happen if they have Jaime wasting time on another Yara-type mission in Dorne.  If Dorne is too boring to stand on its own, then they shouldn't be spending so much time in it.

 

With Jaime in the Riverlands, you'd get scenes with the Blackfish, Edmure, Genna, etc.

[Minneapple]

Not that the thoughts of Catelyn Stark have ever mattered to D and D.  They didn't consider it important enough to show Catelyn make Jaime swear that oath.

It seems the show like to pretend during odd seasons that the Riverlands don't exist.

Well, I think these are the key parts. The showrunners don't really care about Catelyn anymore and they don't really care about the Riverlands, so they'll probably write around it. 

 

If there is no Jaime in Riverlands, I dearly hope Genna Lannister shows up at Tyrion's funeral like someone upthread suggested. I want to see her pinch Jaime's ear.

[sunflower]

 

think Dany on Drogon will end next season. Or -- Jon dying. Maybe they'll save his resurrection for the season six premiere.

 

I really think the season should end on a cliffhanger with Jon being stabbed and presumed dead.  It's a great moment with a fantastic lead up with Ramsey's "Pink Letter."  I want that moment, I want the power of it.  I want show fans to be talking about it until season 6.  Do they have to rush everything?  Jon isn't even LC yet.  The first episode should end with him being voted as LC and the last should end with him being stabbed. The pacing for the Wall Story was horrible this year.  Can we get a nice proper pacing for Jon's Book 5 story?  

 

Dany can fly on her dragon off my screen.  Not a fan.  I've started to re-read the books and have no problem skipping her chapters except for good Jorah parts.  

Edited June 20, 2014 by sunflower

[Winnief]

 

I really think the season should end on a cliffhanger with Jon being stabbed and presumed dead.

 

I'm not sure how that would work for a show that takes a ten month hiatus-especially since word that KH was signed on for next year would get out anyway, and so Jon couldn't really be dead, it might just seem like a cheap stunt to the Unsullied.

[sunflower]

 

so Jon couldn't really be dead, it might just seem like a cheap stunt to the Unsullied.

 

I don't think show watchers would think Jon was really dead.  As a bookreader, I don't believe he's really dead.  I just think it would be a powerful ending and leave people talking even if bitching.  Also, if they do decide to use Lady Stoneheart, then people would guess that he could be revived.  I think LSH is necessary for Jaime's story and so people can realize Jon doesn't have to be dead.  I'm actually nervous about them bringing him back.  Hopefully, he's more Beric than ZombieCat.

Edited June 20, 2014 by sunflower

[Minneapple]

Yeah, nobody really believes Jon is *really* dead, do they? Even GRRM wouldn't kill him like that after putting five books' worth of work into him.

 

It would be like Buffy dying at the end of season five. Everyone knew she was coming back, the question was how.

 

AND IF WINDS OF WINTER IS OUT BY THEN, MAYBE WE'LL KNOW. Hahaha just kidding!

[Avaleigh]

I really love that idea of Jaime seeing that Myrcella is happy in Dorne and chooses to allow her to remain there even though that could mean the final blow to his relationship with Cersei. I also want to see the Water Gardens since they sound so beautiful. I hope they pick a strong Trystane since they're beefing up the role.

I'm actually kind of excited about Jaime going to Dorne because I think it has the potential to be exciting due to all of the Oberyn tension, plus it's a chance for a new bright location, different costumes--just changing it up a little sounds like a good idea. l just hope the Sand Snakes aren't disappointing. I feel like that has the potential to go either way. Based on what I've read I'm cautiously optimistic , but we'll see.

I thought Dany's story was boring this season. I sped through most of her scenes on rewatch apart from a couple with Jorah. Barristan needs to start talking soon. Something needs to happen to connect her more with Westeros.

As far as the season overall I'd say I was happy with most of it. Lady Stoneheart not appearing this season wasn't a disappointment for me, I thought Ramsay was a lot more tolerable than last season (although I did dislike the Yara interlude for reasons that have already been stated). I loved most of KL save the Rape that Didn't Happen and Tywin's underwhelming exit,. I thought the Wall was hit or miss but wasn't let down by the battle or annoyed with the Bran interlude.

[jjjmoss]

Super-dedicated Westeros forum user StannisEndGame has accumulated a list of screentime for everyone for each season.

I noted this: rounded to nearest minute, half hour+ for each season:

S1 Ned 90+ minutes, Jon just under 60 minutes, Dany/Tyrion 50+, Cat 40+; Arya, Jorah, Robert (4 Ned & family, 2 Dany & sidekick, Tyrion, Robert)
S2 Tyrion 6, Theon 4; Dany/Cersei/Arya/Jon/Robb (3 Ned's kids, 2 Lannisters, Dany, Theon)
S3 Tyrion 4; Jaime/Jon/Dany/Sansa (2 Ned's kids, 2 Lannisters, Dany)
S4 Tyrion 5; Jon/Cersei 4; Jaime/Sansa/Tywin/Oberyn/Dany (4 Lannisters, 2 Ned's kids, Dany, Oberyn)

 

So outside of Stark relations, Lannisters, and Dany, 4 characters each had one go-around at half an hour: King Robert Baratheon, Jorah Mormont, Theon Greyjoy, Oberyn Martell.

Breaking down those 2 central families: Jon 4 seasons, Sansa/Arya 2, Ned/Cat/Robb 1
Tyrion 4 seasons, Cersei/Jaime 2, Tywin 1

We can see the shift in focus from the Starks to the Lannisters, though now with Tywin gone and the other 3 soon scattered in 3 different locations, that could change.

 

Compare to characters with highest # of POV chapters, though it's unwieldy as Jaime/Cersei don't get POVs till way after they're important: Tyrion 47, Jon 42, Arya 33, Dany 31, Cat 25, Sansa 24, Bran 21

 

Rounded to the nearest tenth of a minute, average screentime per episode:
30+ episodes: 6+ minutes Tyrion; 5 Jon; 4 Dany, Arya, Sansa; 3 Cersei
20+ episodes: 4 Robb, Jaime; 3 Theon, Cat, Sam, Petyr, Tywin
10+ episodes: 4 Davos; 3 Margaery, Ygritte, Stannis, Melisandre
6-9 episodes: 9 Ned; 4 Oberyn, Robert; 3 Renly, Ramsay

Edited June 21, 2014 by jjjmoss

[Pete Martell]

I was wondering...

 

- did you start watching the show first, or did you read the books first?

 

- which characters, when you're reading the story, do you "see" the actors from the show, and which do you see other images of rather than the TV actors?

 

I started watching the show first. 

 

The characters where I "see" the TV versions - Dany, Jon, Ned, Robert, Jaime (maybe), Bran, Sansa, Loras, Arya, Theon

 

The characters where I see my own version not on TV - Tyrion, Cersei (maybe), Catelyn, Sam, Robb, Renly

 

I'm still in the first book.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Pete Martell