S04.E06: The Cost Of Doing Business

[Tara Ariano]

Morland offers to act as one of Sherlock's "Irregular" consultants to help his son and Joan solve a case.

[AimingforYoko]

Damn, Morland Holmes is no joke. Noble excels at the veiled (and direct) threat. I wonder what he's trying to keep from Sherlock?

[Xantar]

Wow. I never thought, "Call me Mr. Holmes" could sound so sinister. With all this family drama, I'm really hoping that Mycroft makes an appearance. The dynamic between him, Sherlock, and their father would be quite a sight to see.

[MisterGlass]

Sinister and still enormously polite.  I'm glad Joan remains skeptical of his motives.

 

ETA: Morland and Moriarty would be a sight.

Edited December 18, 2015 by MisterGlass

[Athena]

The case was tepid and predictable. Even John Shea couldn't make it interesting.

 

The best bit of the episode was the sinister ending with Mr Holmes. Damn. I wonder what would happen if Moriarty and Mr Holmes were to talk.

[whatsatool]

Agree. The ending has me baffled

[johntfs]

The case was tepid and predictable. Even John Shea couldn't make it interesting.

 

The best bit of the episode was the sinister ending with Mr Holmes. Damn. I wonder what would happen if Moriarty and Mr Holmes were to talk.

 

Who says that haven't talked already?  Didn't Moriarty refer to someone who helped mentor her in her career...?

[Actionmage]

As a fan of Netflix's Daredevil, I clocked the deserted eatery as where Vanessa Marianna and Wilson Fisk had their first date! I then knew nothing good was going to happen.

 

I was relieved that neither Bell nor Gregson were in actual danger.

 

Reed Diamond and John Shea, while wonderful to see, didn't get much to do, imo. Okay, maybe Mr. Shea will be seen again because he seemed to get and not get Morland and his lack of boundaries.

 

Sherlock asking after Morland's T count was hilariously not expected. Seeing Morland's face while fielding that was fun. Sadly, I was also distracted by the curtained windows, but not too much.

 

I was kind of sad that we didn't get to hear the chant for Everyone. The hooded cape was what got me interested. I know that Sherlock probably begged off after Morland showed up, but since it wasn't shown, I am curious as to what he said and how that will affect the next price for their help. Like the car alarms all over the brownstone, I am eagerly awaiting their next appearance.

 

I do love that even if they are trying to look out for the other with judicious editing of the truth, Joan and Sherlock end up (mostly) on the same page.

 

I hope that Moriarity and Morland never met before Sherlock came to New York. That would make the show's world too small, imo. I can see the logic of his possibly being a mentor, but she seemed too artsy and grifty to sustain Morland's interest as a protégé.I just don't think it's necessary. Seeing her show up if Morland's hijinx threaten Sherlock? I will bring the popcorn and the 3D glasses. 

 

edited for spelling and clarity.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Actionmage

[johntfs]

Did anyone else flash on Season Two's "The One Percent Solution" which involved a mass killing (with a bomb), a predatorily lusty CEO and Lestrade calling in a helicopter for a ride?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the most interesting moments in the episode was when Sherlock told Joan that he knew he had only told her negative things about his father

 

I knew that the bank guy would end up having more of a role than what was originally shown. You don't bring Tommy Carcetti/Littlefinger in for such a minor role. Heh, plus there's no way that you would cast him to be just a cooperative bank guy.

[kitmerlot1213]

Wow. I never thought, "Call me Mr. Holmes" could sound so sinister. With all this family drama, I'm really hoping that Mycroft makes an appearance. The dynamic between him, Sherlock, and their father would be quite a sight to see.

 

I am hoping for that as well especially if we get to see the Holmes brothers join forces--with an assist from Joan--to take the old man down.  I like that neither Sherlock or Joan are fooled into thinking that Morland is now a good guy--they are wary of his motives,  Good for them!

 

And I would love for Moriarty to hear about the danger Sherlock is potentially in from his father and for her to pull an unexpected preemptive strike--I would pay cash money to see John Noble, Natalie Dormer and Jonny Lee Miller intetact and do their talented actor dance :)

[Primetimer]

Morland Holmes joins the ranks of Sherlock's unusual Irregulars in this week's Elementary; Al Lowe's got questions.

Read the story

[edhopper]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say Moreland did not have bank guy's predasessor killed. He just used the death to intimanate bank guy.

If he did, eventually Sherlock will bring him to justice and we will lose John Noble. I get the sense that he is unethical at times and less in business, but not criminal. (well maybe of the white collar variety) his distain for John Shea leads me to think he is not okay with murder.

[sjohnson]

I'm not sure what Aidan Gillen (played Carcetti in The Wire) played in this episode. 

 

But I was amused at the in joke about Homicide with Reed Diamond calling the interview room "the Box." 

 

I thought Mueller was a crooked police administrator. I am also inclined to believe that Morland personally eschews murder and mayhem and maybe even kidnapping. But I'm inclined to think it more a matter of realizing that there is always the possibility of Sherlock investigating. I think Morland is confident Sherlock won't turn him in for non-violent crimes, but equally confident that Sherlock would draw the line at murder and such. That said, Morland could have prompted the predecessor's murder by provoking another enemy of the guy to action. Or by doing a suitably important favor for a violent person cunning enough to see what Morland would deem a suitable return.

[Zolo]

Hey guys, new to the forum, I liked this episode so much I had to register and comment about it. Pretty much my favorite crime show in the last couple of years. I loved the addition of Noble so much, such a great actor. Also, doesn't Morland Holmes' character feels like a super smart Godfather type? A sophisticated crime lord? I want the creators to pitch him and Moriarty against each other, that would be something! Maybe give Morland a chance to redeem himself and maybe save Sherlock's life in the process, while giving up his. Then Sherlock and Moriarty (now free) would go all out in season five, Sherlock would seem defeated and overwhelmed, maybe losing a friend (Alfredo or Marcus?), but of course he would come up with a brilliant plan in the end. I feel however they handle it, Moriarty cannot be incarcerated again. I think a villain can be interesting for three seasons, especially the way they handle her (missing almost completely from season 3, right?), but after that it would get annoying. One of the biggest mistakes The Mentalist did. Anyway, sorry for the long post but I'm curious, how would you guys handle the arc?

I'm not sure what Aidan Gillen (played Carcetti in The Wire) played in this episode. 

 

But I was amused at the in joke about Homicide with Reed Diamond calling the interview room "the Box." 

 

I thought Mueller was a crooked police administrator. I am also inclined to believe that Morland personally eschews murder and mayhem and maybe even kidnapping. But I'm inclined to think it more a matter of realizing that there is always the possibility of Sherlock investigating. I think Morland is confident Sherlock won't turn him in for non-violent crimes, but equally confident that Sherlock would draw the line at murder and such. That said, Morland could have prompted the predecessor's murder by provoking another enemy of the guy to action. Or by doing a suitably important favor for a violent person cunning enough to see what Morland would deem a suitable return.

That's a good point, maybe I was quick to believe Morland's sinister nature. It could very well be another manipulative device in play, that would probably make him even more interesting. Making people believe that you are cruel is way more impressive than actually being cruel. 

[minamurray78]

Well, NOW we're talking. I knew they wouldn't just bring in John Noble to play a Walter Bishop redux with his son. That last scene was all chills, and yeah, the setting  reminded me also of the Wilson/Vanessa dinner date from DD.

 

Bring it on, Morland.

 

Hey guys, new to the forum, I liked this episode so much I had to register and comment about it.

 Welcome to the forum!

[sinkwriter]

I've been waiting for Morland to show some of his true colors, but that was still really chilling. Somehow I think this is a side of his father that Sherlock has not seen at all. I think even he'd be shocked.

[MisterGlass]

I think Morland is an accomplished liar, and even more an accomplished implier.  He doesn't need to be explicit about anything at this stage because he has that sort of reputation.  Even with Mycroft and Sherlock were trying to get information when Joan was kidnapped, Mycroft rightly pointed out that the connection to their father was enough to get them an introduction in the most exclusive gray area.

 

Sherlock implied earlier in the season that his father operated at a different level, one that would be hard for him to police, and this episode bore that out.  I agree It would take something far more heinous that bribery to make Sherlock take the risk of acting against Morland.  I wonder how much even Mycroft, the favored son and occasional spy, knows about what their father does.

 

John Noble's suits in this reminded me a touch of Hannibal, though the patterns and pairings were less bold.

[rulesoftravel]

Okay, maybe Mr. Shea will be seen again because he seemed to get and not get Morland and his lack of boundaries.

I think John Shea's character will be rotting in prison for murdering 4 people. Edited December 19, 2015 by rulesoftravel

[basil]

I think Morland is confident Sherlock won't turn him in for non-violent crimes, but equally confident that Sherlock would draw the line at murder and such.

 

 

I don't see why Morland would think Sherlock wouldn't condone murder under certain circumstances.. Sherlock himself doesn't draw the line at murder. He tortured Moran and was going to kill him for murdering Irene. When he finally understood Moran did not murder Irene, he stabbed him for "presuming to know [him]".  He came very close to beating Oscar to death for...what? The injustice done to his sister? Trying to get him addicted again?

 

If I was Tommy Carcetti's character, I wouldn't forget about the conversation and go back to Paris. I'd find the deepest, darkest, most remote cave on a tiny island somewhere and pull a rock over the entrance behind me, probably staying there for the rest of my life.

[thuganomics85]

Late for this one due to seeing the new Star Wars film yesterday instead.  It wasn't personal, Elementary!  Knowing Sherlock's taste in cinema though, he probably would think I made the wrong call.

 

Reed Diamond!  And he wasn't the killer either!  That was surprising.  Of course, it ended up being John Shea instead, and he was pretty much the next obvious choice.  Then again, I even recognized Michael Esper as that rival Sherlock/Morland briefly talked with, so this episode was chalk full of familiar faces.

 

Sherlock and Morland working together was interesting, even if Joan's screen time suffered because of it.  Interesting that Sherlock seems to be questioning his original assumptions, and even told Joan to more or less ignore what he said, and get to know Morland herself.

 

Of course, this leads to that final scene with Morland.  Part of me wonders if he might be actually playing it up and actually had nothing do with that guys death.  Either way, that was sinister as hell.  John Noble was more chilling in that scene then almost his entire stint on Sleepy Hollow.  And it just makes me want even more to see a Morland/Moriarty scene, but I can only imagine now Noble and Natalie Dormer would play off one another on this show.

[johntfs]

I don't see why Morland would think Sherlock wouldn't condone murder under certain circumstances.. Sherlock himself doesn't draw the line at murder. He tortured Moran and was going to kill him for murdering Irene. When he finally understood Moran did not murder Irene, he stabbed him for "presuming to know [him]".  He came very close to beating Oscar to death for...what? The injustice done to his sister? Trying to get him addicted again?

 

If I was Tommy Carcetti's character, I wouldn't forget about the conversation and go back to Paris. I'd find the deepest, darkest, most remote cave on a tiny island somewhere and pull a rock over the entrance behind me, probably staying there for the rest of my life.

 

I don't think that would help.  Figure the dude's faint hope is to play along and hope something happens to open Morland to some sudden counterattack.

 

While Sherlock's morality can be somewhat situational, I doubt he'd approve of his father arranging for whatever horrible fate unfolded for his previous INTERPOL contact.

 

I really liked the second confrontation Morland had with Shea's character.  Morland seemed more amused than outraged.

 

I also liked Sherlock pretty much doing the "Oh, God-dammit!" when he was dressed in the hooded cloak and answered the door.

 

I have to admit I kind of enjoyed the sheer assholery of "Sniper Day."

[kieyra]

Sorry for being shallow, but doesn't Morland just FEEL like it should be spelled Moreland? It's jarring to see Morland, wasn't expecting that. I've read a lot of British history; I'll do some googling to see if there's a reason I had a predetermined notion of how it should be spelled. Have certainly never heard of it as a given name so no excuses there. Edit: it's because Moreland is a street in my hometown, it seems.

I did like that they flipped the script on his possible redemption arc. Hope they don't flip it back too soon, although this is network television so I think they'll have to.

Edited December 20, 2015 by kieyra

[basil]

No. I think it was the kidnapping of Alfredo that sent Sherlock over the edge.Sherlock makes a friend. Friend almost dies because he's friends with Sherlock.

 

 

Good point, I hadn't thought of that, but regardless it demonstrates that Sherlock has not once but twice been prepared to kill someone in cold blood.

 

That was my original thought, but then I started reading here, and I"m wondering if daddy was just saying he was involved in that dude's murder. They've shown Morland to be ruthless, yes. But a complete sociopath who would let the man's children find his dead body? I dunno...

 

 

Kind of an odd thing to just pull out of nowhere when Morland didn't know why the guy had "called the meeting", so to speak.

 

Then he actually let the guy leave. That did set off my radar right away. If Morland really was that guy, would he let the dude walk out of the room? I think maybe these smart people are on to something, and he basically just wanted to get the guy crapping in his pants, so he'd never think of shaking down Mr.. Holmes again.

 

 

Morland is far too intelligent to trust that associate ever again. He may well have a use for him in the immediate future, or he might find it unwise to off him immediately,  but his days are numbered. The threat of blackmail is a bell that cannot be unrung.

 

I am wondering about the danger to Sherlock, and if that is real.

 

 

I cannot imagine what this danger might be, and I'm very curious about it. It must be real, I think, otherwise there was no need for the threat.

[basiltherat]

If Papa wanted his informant dead, he would: 1) wait until he was out of NYC and 2) have a minion of a minion of a minion do it.

[sinkwriter]

 

No. I think it was the kidnapping of Alfredo that sent Sherlock over the edge.Sherlock makes a friend. Friend almost dies because he's friends with Sherlock.

 

I think it was that, but I also think it had to do with his sobriety. It wasn't just Oscar trying to get Sherlock back to being a client again - he was trying to ruin all the hard work Sherlock had established, all the good that had come into his life since he became sober and met Joan and began working with the police. It was a huge thing to have Oscar destroy all of that. The control Sherlock had over his sobriety process was completely shattered. All that hard work, gone. It probably felt like he was back to square one, as if none of what he'd done before mattered. That's exhausting. I can see why he was so angry.

[johntfs]

 

I'm so glad he's had a chance to redeem himself here. They always play him slightly eccentric and kooky, even when he's evil. But here, the nuance is fantastic. You don't know which end is up with him, and that makes for a fascinating character.

 

I never saw Noble as needing redemption for Sleepy Hollow.  He's a good actor.  He was told to play a spoiled, whiny manchild in a senior citizen's body and he did that very very well.  Presumably if John Noble took a role as someone who believed himself to be an 8 year old girl, dressed in ballet tutus and had pretend tea parties for unicorns, he'd commit to that as well.  The big problem on Sleepy Hollow was the character written for Noble to play, not the way he played it.

 

That all said John Noble is doing an amazing job here.  I could watch him and Jonny Lee Miller discuss Low-T all day long.

 

It's possible That Morland was bluffing and using innuendo regarding the previous associate.  That said, I figure Morland has done some scary stuff in his day.  When you play the bluff/intimidation game there have to have been times when you actually can back up your reputation and be as scary/horrible/evil as people believe you are.

[kieyra]

Regarding Noble and Sleepy Hollow, I agree he was in no way accountable for that mess, but it's nice to have a mental palate cleanser. I also appreciate that he's getting to use a different set of acting tools than he is sometimes typecast into.

[MisterGlass]

I cannot say enough about the character range Noble brought into Fringe.  As for Sleepy Hollow, its second season had a number of issues.  Noble's role in the first season was much more subtle and interesting, but I felt like they didn't know how to carry it forward in the story.
 

When you play the bluff/intimidation game there have to have been times when you actually can back up your reputation and be as scary/horrible/evil as people believe you are.

 

Agreed, though brokering hard crimes is a market Moriarty cornered.  I could see Morland brokering scapegoats, bribes, escape routes, and the appearance of legitimacy.  An earlier poster suggested a relationship between them; could he have sub contracted with Moriarty for certain things?

 

Morland never admitted anything to his spy, and it was an unrecorded conversation.  The spy is in an awkward position if he ever did want to accuse Morland of anything because he is a paid informant, and breaking the law.  I'm sure there is no paper trail between the two of them.

[sinkwriter]

 

That all said John Noble is doing an amazing job here.  I could watch him and Jonny Lee Miller discuss Low-T all day long.

 

I'm so childish today, but that last line made me giggle a lot. Heee.

 

 

As for Sleepy Hollow, its second season had a number of issues.  Noble's role in the first season was much more subtle and interesting, but I felt like they didn't know how to carry it forward in the story.

 

That's how I saw it too. I think he was interesting when he was simply the Sin Eater, but when they tried to do what they did with him beyond that, it became a mess of a story.

 

He's doing great here, though! Marvelously cryptic and creepy.

[MaryHedwig]

OK, I just watched the show again and need someone explain some things to me like I was about ten years old.

 

Am I correct that:

 

A rich business man decided to kill his married mistress' bonus lover by hiring a sniper to take out bonus lover and a few other random people for collateral damage's sake?  This sniper used the exact same mayhem pattern that he used in a previous massacre and didn't think anyone would figure this out?  The sniper just happens to randomly kill a key rival of the rich business man? Because the rich business man's karma loading is such that something that good/evil would just randomly happen to him?

 

That married mistress was able to jump both her husband's boss and their family plumber without her husband having any idea that she is not at home baking bread and being faithful?

 

Probably a few other things confuse me that are suppose to, like what Morland is getting out of this, but the above just remain mysteries to me for no darn good reason.

Edited December 21, 2015 by MaryHedwig

[Actionmage]

A rich business man decided to kill his married mistress' bonus lover by hiring a sniper to take out bonus lover and a few other random people for collateral damage's sake? 

 

I can see this as SOP in TV World, if not in real life, because we have seen police/law enforcement shows where the profile for a spree killer ( what the 'random' victims seemed) is different for a highly-trained sniper ( what the shooter actually was). It was a way to delay law enforcement in deducing who did the shooting. Or at least the average law enforcement folks.

 

This sniper used the exact same mayhem pattern that he used in a previous massacre and didn't think anyone would figure this out?

 

I believe this was what brought Morland to Sherlock. Morland, a globe-tripping uber-elite businessman happened to be in NYC at the time this particular professional, also a globe-hopping businessman, happened to be contracted to kill a plumber. Morland, if I was reading things right, was the lucky break for Gregson and the NYPD because he had previous knowledge of that one time on a different continent. He was the only reason anyone looked at this as not just some nut shooting folks. So simple answers to your questions, in order, are yes and no. Sniper had no reason to think anyone else would recognize this pattern from the last time.  Possibly because John Shea's character didn't know for sure if Morland was in town or was aware of Morland's past knowledge or both.

 

The sniper just happens to randomly kill a key rival of the rich business man? Because the rich business man's karma loading is such that something that good/evil would just randomly happen to him?

 

Unless the sniper met the guy and disliked him, there seemed to be no obvious reason, just dumb luck. 

 

That married mistress was able to jump both her husband's boss and their family plumber without her husband having any idea that she is not at home baking bread and being faithful?

 

 Unless there was some reason for Reed Diamond's character to think his wife was unfaithful or she was a really crappy liar or he was creepily controlling and keeping tabs on her movements, why would a modern spouse automatically think his wife was sleeping with someone else?

 

The plumber seemed to be more old school sneakin' around, possibly why it was so easy to uncover, while Shea's character- as per Morland- "made a sport" of going after his subordinate's wives. Who else would be able to schedule business trips for Diamond's character and carry on while he was out-of-town? Who better to pile late night have-to-have-in-the-morning work so he can whatever behind Diamond's back?  We weren't told anything about the woman, as she was just a ( largely unseen) prop for the motivation, so we have no idea why she slept with either of the men. Shea's character's story was so David/Bathsheba.

 

Of course, I could be mistaken on any of the above.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Actionmage