Childhood’s End - General Discussion

[Margo Leadbetter]

Bookwise, there are number of supply ships making the trip, not just one. Also, one thing that was left out of the mini is that there's actually only one Overlord ship, over New York. The rest are projections and disappeared fairly early on, IIRC.

 

Milo's book counterpart Jan put himself into a chemically induced stasis for the trip to the Overlords' home world, calculated to last as long as the trip. I actually laughed out loud when Milo basically vacuum-packed himself into a literal Space Bag. 

 

No Rachel, no Ellie, no Annabelle, no Peretta (GAH!), Boyce was given a role and prominence that he didn't have in the book, no whacked-out dude in New Athens basically taking everyone out in a mass murder/suicide (New Athens was in the book but the colonists as a group chose to annihilate themselves once they had a chance to process what had happened and decide they didn't want to go on—it's one of the most beautiful and heartbreaking passages in the book…"And the island rose to meet the dawn.")

Edited December 17, 2015 by Margo Leadbetter

[fauntleroy]

The Overlords didn't tamper with the children. They were sent by the Overmind to serve as "midwives" as Karellen said. They came to protect the human race from destroying itself so that this natural evolution could take place.  Once the process started, it spread to the other children, no tampering needed.

 

They became a single consciousness because that was the next evolutionary stage—a major leap, much like the Starchild in 2001 (Childhood's End and 2001 share a lot of similarities, understandably). The destruction of the planet was actually the child-like new life form learning about and exercising its power before making the final jump to the next stage.

 

So the kids would have developed these new powers on the same timeline (15 years? and in the book, 50? whichever), whether the Overlords were there or not? Except had they not stepped in, humans would have extinguished themselves by then?

 

If the only task was to keep humanity going for another 15/50 years, the Overlords could have used a lighter touch. Why bother with alleviating the problems of the world only to allow it to be destroyed so soon thereafter. Seems pointless.

 

Why did the kids try to reassure their parents? That seems remarkably clueless for such advanced beings. Why did the next-stage human exercise her power by destroying her planet? What is the point of having such 'power' anyway. And why not I dunno, go suck energy out of one of Jupiter's moons or something.

 

Basically it's depressing that a supposed evolutionary advance would result in the needless taking of all human life. This is progress? Bummer.

 

On the one hand the book is nearly always better, but on the other an adaptation of the book should be able to stand on its own. In this case I don't get the fundamental logic of either.

 

ETA: I keep editing this as I think of more reasons why I found it annoying. :-)

Edited December 17, 2015 by fauntleroy

[fauntleroy]

The novel Children of Men by PD James, and the (inferior of course) movie of the same name, addressed a similar dilemma, without all of this problematic higher consciousness stuff. In the present-day suddenly, worldwide, women stop becoming pregnant. Scientists guess it is due to an environental factor but are not able to determine the cause for sure.

 

As people die and are not replaced, the demographics skew. As the young become more rare they become famous. Of course things gradually fall to shit as humanity loses hope for its future. I think this is quite a clever take on a somewhat similar problem, though was disappointed in the book and film as the story devolved into a standard on-the-run plot.

[Margo Leadbetter]

So the kids would have developed these new powers on the same timeline (15 years? and in the book, 50? whichever), whether the Overlords were there or not? Except had they not stepped in, humans would have extinguished themselves by then?

Pretty much. The Overlords were sent to stop mankind from destroying itself before the evolution could take place and to identify the person who was the catalyst, which they were able to do through paranormal means. The Rupert Boyce of the book is a bit of a dilettante, but he has the world's best collection of books on the paranormal, which is why an Overlord is visiting when Boyce throws a party. George and Jean (Jake and Amy—who was annoying as fuck) are party guests and it's Jean who makes the paranormal connection with her as-yet-unborn son. The Overlords then keep watch on them and actually save their son Jeff from a tsunami that hits New Athens.

If the only task was to keep humanity going for another 15/50 years, the Overlords could have used a lighter touch. Why bother with alleviating the problems of the world only to allow to be destroyed so soon thereafter. Seems pointless.

 

They actually were very much hands-off after an initial show of power in the beginning. As long as people weren't hurting each other or the environment, it was live-and-let-live in what become a paradise, but a somewhat boring one. The colonists of New Athens (which was an island colony with handpicked residents, not people escaping to a teeming city) where looking for something more but even then, the Overlords left them alone.

Why did the next-stage human exercise her power by destroying her planet? Why not I dunno, go suck energy out of one of Jupiter's moons or something. Basically it's depressing that a supposed evolutionary advance would result in the needless taking of all human life. This is progress? Bummer.

There was never a child leader like Jennifer. By the time Milo returned, the children were no longer human, they'd already evolved into a single consciousness and were waiting for the next step, when they no longer needed their bodies. There were also no adult humans left, as they'd long since killed themselves or died off since they were unable to reproduce. The "children" destroyed the earth because it had no use or meaning to them—it would have been a barren planet devoid of life. Instead, they used the energy to make the leap and join the Overmind.

 

I think the mini could have stood alone if it had stuck more closely to the themes of the book and eliminated a lot of unnecessary new story lines. There were way too many plot holes and unexplained occurrences. But the worst thing for me is that the emotional impact—of the human despair and loss and the Overlords' impotence—was completely blunted. It should have been able to evolve as the story unfolded, but instead they tried to manufacture it and it fell short for me. I was completely unmoved. On the other hand, I found an online version of the book about an hour ago and re-reading the chapter where New Athens obliterated itself still brought me to tears.

 

ETA: One other change that bothered the hell out of me. When the Overlords initially arrive on Earth they do NOT resurrect the dead to deliver their message. Because, seriously WTF? And people barely bat an eyelash? They arrive, hover over the cities for a few days and then speak to the humans in English over normal communication channels.

 

Aside from Charles Dance (squee!), I'm not familiar with anyone else in the cast and I can't say that anyone impressed me much, except for kid Milo (not in the book either).

Edited December 17, 2015 by Margo Leadbetter

[thuganomics85]

Sounds like there was a lot of deviation from the books, but I'm glad they at least kept the downer ending.  I may be weird that way, but I'm good with things not ending happily every after for everyone.  Plus, the way things were set up, I just would have found it unrealistic (for this show), for the humans to somehow stop what was coming.

 

The children flying into the air should have been more impactful, but the reaction from the adults was just weird.  Some were laughably over-the-top, while others were kind of mute.  In particular, I was chuckling over Jacob's "Get down from there!", because he sounded less like he was watching his children suddenly flying into the air, resurrection style, and more like they were climbing too high on the playground.

 

Ricky's death was somewhat anticlimactic.  Still not sure what my overall takeaway was suppose to be about him, Ellie, and "Annabelle."  I think that him refusing Karellen's offer to stay was suppose to show that he truly loved Ellie, but I don't know, I still came away thinking that Ellie was never not going to be his second choice.

 

Curious to see where the actor playing Milo goes next, because I thought he handled the lead role (more or less, if we're including Ricky as the lead in the first episode) pretty well, and I never heard of him before this.

Charles Dance continues to be the highlight of almost every show he is on.

[Jamoche]

So the kids would have developed these new powers on the same timeline (15 years? and in the book, 50? whichever), whether the Overlords were there or not? Except had they not stepped in, humans would have extinguished themselves by then?

 

If the only task was to keep humanity going for another 15/50 years, the Overlords could have used a lighter touch. Why bother with alleviating the problems of the world only to allow it to be destroyed so soon thereafter. Seems pointless.

 

Why did the kids try to reassure their parents? That seems remarkably clueless for such advanced beings. Why did the next-stage human exercise her power by destroying her planet? What is the point of having such 'power' anyway. And why not I dunno, go suck energy out of one of Jupiter's moons or something.

 

Haven't read it since college, but from what I recall: it's not that humans would've extinguished themselves, it's that the children would've destroyed the world *before* transforming into energy beings, instead of after. And in the book they nearly do it too; there are scenes of glassy-eyed children wandering around oblivious to the adults, playing around with the Earth, messing around with the geography just for kicks. Those kids wouldn't have reassured their parents; they weren't even aware they existed anymore.

 

As for why? I think Stargate got it right: The Ascended are dicks.

[Margo Leadbetter]

Haven't read it since college, but from what I recall: it's not that humans would've extinguished themselves, it's that the children would've destroyed the world *before* transforming into energy beings, instead of after. And in the book they nearly do it too; there are scenes of glassy-eyed children wandering around oblivious to the adults, playing around with the Earth, messing around with the geography just for kicks. Those kids wouldn't have reassured their parents; they weren't even aware they existed anymore.

 

Once the children begin the transformation and no longer respond to their parents, the Overlords gather them up and transport them to a remote location because they indicate that the children are still at a stage where they can be destroyed by their distraught parents. Once humanity is pretty much gone and the collective children begin exercising their powers, the Overlords retreat further into space for their observations because by then THEY can be destroyed by the ever-evolving children.

 

Boy am I ever ranting about this and the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get. I decided to spare my poor coworker so I'm ranting here. Lucky you guys.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Margo Leadbetter

[Jamoche]

Boy am I ever ranting about this and the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get. I decided to spare my poor coworker so I'm ranting here. Lucky you guys.

No problem. I found the book annoying, I only finished it because it was for a college class, and it's hard to find places to rant about it because it's such a "beloved classic". Watched the series to see if the different media made it less annoying - nope, just annoying in different ways.

[SimoneS]

Curious to see where the actor playing Milo goes next, because I thought he handled the lead role (more or less, if we're including Ricky as the lead in the first episode) pretty well, and I never heard of him before this.

 

I did a search on the actor who played Milo on IMDB. His name is Osy Ikhile. I thought he was one of the strengths of the series and he has some projects lined up. I will look out for him.

[Gel]

Having read the book once ages ago, that was gawdawful. I spent most of the six hours thinking " Wait, that wasn't in the book. Nor that. And WTH is that?" It felt like a ridicously over-emoted montage that lasted forever. To top off all the things that were absurd about it, there was Milo's shock that 40-80 years has elapsed during his little interstellar jaunt, and gee, Rachel had aged and died. Ya think? Even if he harbored some fantasy that the Overlords could bend space-time, as a scientist he would still have to allow for the possibility 80 years might indeed pass on Earth while he was traveling around at light speed.

And six hours later, I still have no idea what the mini-series was trying to get at, what the message or plot or point was. All I got was look! Shiny! Pretty! Stupid!

Edited December 18, 2015 by Gel

[ralph]

I don't get how Peretta could have grown up so poor in Brazil but even at a young age speak the grammatically flawless and nearly unaccented English of someone with an expensive education

[ralph]

I don't get why humans weren't preserved like whales and macaques and other life on Earth

[bmoore4026]

Well, after all that, what was the point?

 

I've come to realize that, while I may like some geeky things like sci-fi, there are some geeky things I don't like.  Arthur C. Clarke is now one of those things.

 

I've not read the book but I've read a quote in which he though humanity didn't have a future and the producer of the mini-series trying turn this into a positive, regardless of Mr. Clarke's rather hostile misanthropy and militant atheism.

 

This is the interview.  Maybe I'm missing something: http://www.blastr.com/2015-12-17/childhoods-end-producer-what-ending-means-humanity

 

I really just watched this for Mike Vogel's eyes. 

 

And Milo got to experience hentai before being blown up on Earth.  Good for him.

[fauntleroy]

I don't get how Peretta could have grown up so poor in Brazil but even at a young age speak the grammatically flawless and nearly unaccented English of someone with an expensive education

 

On the other hand a sweet gig for Yael Stone who is from Sydney. Filmed in Melbourne. Or at least a chance to return home for a couple months to film it. In addition to her linguistic talent the character was annoying in several other ways. For example, jeez with that haircut, and would just a little blush kill you? Don't know why they 'plained out' the character. Stone is stunning I think. And the character seemed whiny, at least to me An odd acting (script?) choice.

 

Loss of faith at such a time makes sense - these guys are here now - what has god done for us lately? Don't like seeing loss of faith used as the reason for suicide (her mum as I recall).

 

Her scene standing up to Kerellen avec shotgun was her best. Would have preferred that she got some truth bombs out of Kerellen while at gunpoint. Kept control rather than freaking out and... But like the noble efforts of several characters, the takeaway is, basically, you are doomed and your planet will disappear and nothing any of you ever did has any meaning. But it's okay because it's 'natural'. Because we say it is.

 

Jaysus how gloomy. Fits the season I guess, in the dreary north. Thank the Dear Lord for alcohol.

Edited December 18, 2015 by fauntleroy

[Cigale]

Try this site to find the tree.

 

http://www.allcreativedesigns.com.au/pages/galltrees9.html

Thanks a lot! I'll check it out.

[jhlipton]

From The Overlords thread
 

Loss of faith at such a time makes sense - these guys are here now - what has god done for us lately? Don't like seeing loss of faith used as the reason for suicide (her mum as I recall).

 
And her suicide as well, as I read the scene.

[jhlipton]

Loss of faith at such a time makes sense - these guys are here now - what has god done for us lately? Don't like seeing loss of faith used as the reason for suicide (her mum as I recall).

 

Reply in The Deceivers thread

[jhlipton]

Rikki's death scene went on too long for example.

 

Gah.  He was dying, then all better (fly-fishing, for example) then dying, then all better, then veiny, then dead.

 

Curious to see where the actor playing Milo goes next, 

 

Young Milo, perhaps, but adult Milo was on a par with the rest of the cast.  His "love" scenes with Rachel were pathetic.

 

 To top off all the things that were absurd about it, there was Milo's shock that 40-80 years has elapsed during his little interstellar jaunt, and gee, Rachel had aged and died. Ya think? 

 

She was supposed to go the the "Orbital".  It was implied they had some kind of stasis thing there, so she would sleep for 80 years if he wasn't back in 90 days.  But the Orbital was destroyed before he got back.

[shrewd.buddha]

I don't know which was worse : the hysterical aliens-stole-my-religious-faith woman or the hysterical aliens-owe-me-a-baby woman. Both ended up pointing a shotgun at Karellen  .. (because it's a rule that if a gun is present it has to be used). 

 

This was a much weaker episode. I would not have been able to handle watching it live if I had to endure the commercials, too. There were some elements that related to the book, but not very well done, in my opinion. 

 

They just glossed over how this 'golden age of humanity' actually worked. Were robots producing the clothes, houses, appliances, etc. that the humans were not having to pay for? Were people doing manual labor just for the fun of it? There were waiters serving drinks at the big party in Africa ... why would people still be doing that? Why would there still be deputies keeping the looky-loos on the other side of the fence at Ricky's farming-for-the-hell-of-it ranch?  

It appeared as if there were still a lot of 'have' and 'have-nots'. 

 

The whole plot written for the hysterical aliens-stole-my-religious-faith woman was basically pointless. Trying to connect her to the couple with telepathic kids *and* then to the alien-ambassador-farmer couple was very lazy writing. Was she just supposed to be crazy? Because her reasoning that a telekinetic boy's tantrum causing her necklace to be mangled must mean the aliens are evil just doesn't add up. Topping it off with suicide is basically the last nail in her probably-just-crazy coffin.. 

 

One interesting point made in the book was that the existence of many religions basically means they cannot all be true (especially if taken literally). No one tries to defend the worship of Greek Gods anymore since that civilization has passed away - but in its time, it was a legitimate belief system. 

I am disappointed that the show did such a poor job of addressing the subject of religious beliefs being challenged by the aliens arrival. And like the all-American farmer being the alien ambassador, they chose the religious character to be an American Christian. (Because no one would care if Wiccans, Hindus, Mormons or Scientologists lost their religions ...? )   

 

 

I don't have much expectations for the conclusion. 

[nitrofishblue]

I watched the first two nights. For some reason I felt the writting was sub-par. So many things happened and ended with no reasoning. It felt discombulated or something to that effect. I DVR the 3rd night but have not watched it. I am almost ready to delete it without watching. I read the comments here and got depressed. The world today is going to hell in a handbasket. I sure don't need to watch the world get destroyed on TV.

[Bruinsfan]

The "Devil" as the personification of evil is a totally Christian thing.  Most religions don't have a truly Eeeeeeeeeevil temptor -- the closest would be the Trickster -- Loki, Coyote, The Monkey King, etc.  So all the non-Christians would be wondering what the fuss over this particular meme would be.

Well, Christian and Islamic, which together make up more than half of the people in the world. Not everyone would be freaked by their appearance, but I don't know if there's anything they could look like that would set off issues in more people.

[Bruinsfan]

If the only task was to keep humanity going for another 15/50 years, the Overlords could have used a lighter touch. Why bother with alleviating the problems of the world only to allow it to be destroyed so soon thereafter. Seems pointless.

Might have been a kindness to the adults who were going to be left behind by the process. Or maybe they were maximizing the number of children who would survive to evolve and join the Overmind.

[Hanahope]

Just started watching this, recorded on my DVR.  I also haven't read the book, so I'm interested in hearing the comparisons.

 

but I preferred the book's timeline where the Overlords waited fifty years before revealing themselves so that a whole new generation would be more accepting.

 

Yeah, I kindof thought 15 years seemed too soon, when the Overlords look like the devil.  50 years is more time for new generations to grow up without as much religion, and indoctrination into god/devil to have that kind of automatic revulsion that no doubt many would still have after only 15 years.  After 50 years, you'd have a lot of adults that never knew life before the Overlords and wouldn't get one whit what they looked like, as long as they still provided their gifts.

[fauntleroy]

The whole plot written for the hysterical aliens-stole-my-religious-faith woman was basically pointless. Trying to connect her to the couple with telepathic kids *and* then to the alien-ambassador-farmer couple was very lazy writing. Was she just supposed to be crazy? Because her reasoning that a telekinetic boy's tantrum causing her necklace to be mangled must mean the aliens are evil just doesn't add up. Topping it off with suicide is basically the last nail in her probably-just-crazy coffin.. 

 

Yes. The goal I guess is to exemplify the big issues in characters. But it seems they didn't have much to say about loss of faith other than - this has caused people to lose faith! Which seems like it could go without saying, when enormous powerful devil aliens show up. Jeez God how about a little help? If not now, when? Not much else to say, so the character was indeed pointless.

 

The pattern seems to be, introduce big issues as the hook, then eat up screen time with CGI and long emotional scenes with glamorous couples and children. Easier than exploring those big issues in any depth. When done I was left with the familiar feeling I missed an episode. It's supposed to be science fiction so less time with romantic flyfishing and more time examining the Overmind's seemingly evil model, please. Leave the mushy stuff to the experts at Lifetime.

 

I watched the third installment live! Awful. I muted the ads at least and had a magazine handy. The last hour might have been 30 mins of ads.

[Chaos Theory]

Still not sure what to do with this show. Not sure where to put it. I have nothing against depressing shows but there is just *something* about this that just doesn't work for me. Maybe the total and complete lack of hope. Even with depressing shows I need something left behind; a glimmer.

I need cookie dough ice cream.

[Netfoot]

With all their futuristic tech - controlling matter at the molecular level using magnetic fields, or whatever, as young Milo said, I'd think they'd be able to alter their appearance to suit the situation. A bit disappointed if that is the plot hook that results in it all going to shit.

 

Extend our plastic surgery skills a mere 100 years and we humans would do better. These dudes are maybe 30K years ahead - they should know better.

 

But why should they alter their appearance?  If explorers from earth went to another civilized planet peopled by aliens, can you imagine there would be any discussion of surgically altering our astronauts, solely because our appearance was hard for the alien people to accept?

 

The 15 year wait to see them (plus the new youthfulness of mankind) allowed them to make a movie with the same actors and actresses recognizably themselves, rather than use other actors 50 years older, or layering on heavy makeup on everyone.  The difference is one I can accept as a sort of poetic license covering a practical necessity.  

[fauntleroy]

But why should they alter their appearance?  If explorers from earth went to another civilized planet peopled by aliens, can you imagine there would be any discussion of surgically altering our astronauts, solely because our appearance was hard for the alien people to accept?

 

Earth explorers should alter their appearance when visiting other civilized planets if it's easy, and if for some odd reason your exact appearance matched the image of evil itself carried in the minds of your hosts. Common courtesy I'd say! Not surgical, just a morph. Should be a cinch - just step into a booth for a minute. Look how they took apart and put back together Ricky's house in ep 1 (er right?). Heck they can predict the future.

 

But no consideration in any meaningful way by those heartless crumbums. They're just doing their job overseeing the annihilation of another species. Yawn, we've done many like it. What did I get today oh look ham and swiss again!

 

Maybe it's annoying because they only get to do what they want due to power. And come to think of it, the whole business of getting used to their appearance amounted to...what really. What difference did their appearance end up making? None right? Then why bother?

 

Did I hear mention that the reason the Overlords' exact image personified evil already was not that they had been here before, but that it was a mass premonition. Not a memory but a pure vision of the future. That was a throwaway, if it happened (only half recalled). If so, that would be another thing that it didn't matter one way or the other, so why bother to ... bah..

 

It's odd that a Grand Cosmic Consciousness needs scary huge red monster guys to drive spaceships here and there. You'd think something called the Overmind would transcend if not time, at least space. And that it might go round sucking up all consciousnesses big and small, rather than only picking the hot new ones. Snob and ageist.

 

Overmind, I poop on you!

 

It's just kind of dawning on me how annoying the whole thing was (IMO of course).

Edited December 19, 2015 by fauntleroy

[shapeshifter]

I finally had time to watch this part last night and am not sure if it's worth my time watching the other two. Casting the lead from Under The Dome was effective type casting in that most of the viewers probably had seen at least enough of UtD to get it's premise and so make an easy connection to Barbie/Rick's role here.

But...

I am one of those viewers who quit UtD by the second episode of the second season and wished I had quit it earlier.

So now I'm really not sure if I will watch the rest of this.

Since a lot of shows are on hiatus, it's a good time to draw in many ambivalent viewers via On Demand, streaming, etc.

But I'm still sorting through a lot of energy sucking stuff in my life, and a daughter is coming to visit who does NOT want to see a show with a sinister, red-faced, bat-winged old man--and I'm not sure I want to either.

So...

[jhlipton]

Did I hear mention that the reason the Overlords' exact image personified evil already was not that they had been here before, but that it was a mass premonition. Not a memory but a pure vision of the future. 

 

Yes, but again, it was not a very wide-spread premonition, at least at first.  It wasn't until the Middle Ages that our current image of the devil became the standard for Christianity, and it wasn't until very recently that the Abhramic religions became predominate.  Even now, about half of the world's population (about 3 billion people) don't believe in "The Devil" (even more if you count Christians who reject a personification of evil). [source: List of religious populations]  

 

The Overlords can read minds and project images -- they should either appear as each individual's personification of evil, or as none.

Edited December 19, 2015 by jhlipton

[Chaos Theory]

I have s theory on why every human society (let's just say it is every) painted the Devil/Satan/Demons to look exactly like the overlords. Maybe an ingrained intuitive understanding that when we saw them it was the end,

Maybe I missed it but if that is true I would have liked that brought up especially by Milo.

<----updated to add--/two posts in a row. Not my intention but I had a point and j thought it fit here more then the other two chapters. Still my overall opinion remains the same. Not a bad series. Good acting, fairly good story. A little too depressing. I would give it a 6.5 out of 10. I took off slot of points for depressing the hell out of me.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[fauntleroy]

Even now, about half of the world's population (about 3 billion people) don't believe in "The Devil"

 

More a matter of awareness of the image than belief. Few people I know actually 'believe' in the devil nevertheless I was like hollleee shit it's the devil, we are screwed! when I first saw Karellen. (Which initial reaction turned out to be correct.) It's the most widespread image of evil in the world.

[molshoop]

 

It does make sense that the Overlords would pick more of an Everyman than a UN official

    

            Apparently he doesn't even own a shirt and tie as well as not owning a suit.  I wonder what he wore

            to his wife's funeral.

[raven]

 

But the worst thing for me is that the emotional impact—of the human despair and loss and the Overlords' impotence—was completely blunted. It should have been able to evolve as the story unfolded, but instead they tried to manufacture it and it fell short for me. I was completely unmoved.

So much agreement from me here.  I've read the book several times over the years and skimmed it recently before watching this.  Karellan starts as a politician type figure and ends as a sad one, almost tragic, though I always felt that, no matter what he said, what happened to humanity was more of a tragedy.

 

You've spelled out a lot of the differences Margo Leadbetter, i'll just complain a bit more about them.  Karellan remarks in the book that the job of the Overlords is analogous to guiding a species over a bridge suspended over an abyss; without the Overlords, the "people" would fall into the abyss; and some do.  He mentions that they (the Overlords) have had their failures (humanity's "racial memory" reaction to their appearance being one).  The issue with humanity is not that we were just on a road to physical self-destruction, but that some people were tapping into powers of the mind, and would have caused universe-wide destruction.  The evolution is inevitable; the Overlords are there to make sure it proceeds successfully.  The Overlords don't know how the Overmind determines who is joining it or what the specific triggers are (convenient!).  The Overlords as a species are incapable of joining the Overmind and won't evolve any more than they are, but they don't "dare to disobey" when sent on a mission.  They are scientists foremost and collect as much data as they can each time.

 

When they first arrive, the Overlords are pretty much live and let live, interfering only in extreme cases.  I do always remember them stopping a bullfight and Karellan announcing that they wouldn't allow humans to mistreat animals, and to kill them only for food or self defense. To me, these restrictions placed by the Overlords forced people to turn their minds elsewhere, thus the "golden age", as people grew intellectually.  It's implied that food is provided quite easily, as Jennifer's parents move to New Athens and having a kitchen is novelty; there's no struggling for the basics.

 

There's no suffering Stormgren, he dies at the age of 90, never having seen Karellan in person, though he did get a glimpse through the one-way mirror.  No shooting of Karellan.    The evolution of the children is told through the one family and the kids don't scream, talk nonsense or threaten.  The older boy travels to other worlds in his mind and when he talks about them, Karellan recognizes most of the them ("he's reached the center of the universe") and eventually the boy, Jeff, travels beyond where the Overlords can go.   IMO the Overmind works here with the Overlords, moving the children away from the adults so they won't be hurt as they evolve.   Their evolution seeps the energy from the planet as they grow stronger.  

 

Well you guys weren't lying about the commercials; so glad I recorded and FF.   Obviously I found it hard to separate the book from the series but damn this series was SO BORING, I just kept comparing (and FF).  Why the long goodbye with Ricky? He and Karellan are sort of friends, but Karellan never interferes with him personally, except to recover him when he's kidnapped.  Why, why..ugh never mind.  To be fair, the human characters are somewhat bland in the book, so they had to try to flesh them out.  Plus as been mentioned, 50 years pass before the Karellan reveal; I get the practicalities of TV but it in the series 15 yrs just seems like such a short amount of time.

 

Milo (Jan in the book) is perfectly aware that when he returns to Earth everyone he knew will be dead.  He has no close ties.  I don't mind them giving him ties in the series, but he knew he wouldn't see anyone again. 

 

Lots of great visuals in this though; Karellan looked good and Charles Dance was also.  Umm, the actors playing Ricky and Milo are cute.  The women didn't do much (but I did FF through some of it, especially weepy parents with kids).  I just couldn't care about anyone (well, a little about Milo, who at least did something interesting), a big failing iMO.  I wouldn't have minded more time in space with Milo (too expensive for TV I guess).   At least they kept the ending.

Edited December 20, 2015 by raven

[Netfoot]

So the kids would have developed these new powers on the same timeline (15 years? and in the book, 50? whichever), whether the Overlords were there or not?

 

Yes.  My understanding is that the development of group consciousness and non-corporal existence was a natural process in the evolution of the human race, as it was for other races before.  The Overlords came to earth 15/50-plus years in advance, to condition the human race in preparation for the change.  Their job was to mentally condition humanity into a more accepting state of mind, reduce any tendency for extreme reaction to an extreme phenomenon, and to protect the children while they were in a state of transition.

 

The differences between the book and the series is essentially cosmetic.

 

I found the book annoying, I only finished it because it was for a college class, and it's hard to find places to rant about it because it's such a "beloved classic". Watched the series to see if the different media made it less annoying - nope, just annoying in different ways.

 

A classic, certainly.  Beloved?  I don't know.  It is a dark and depressing tale with nothing that can remotely be called a happy ending.  The silver lining to this cloud is very thin indeed.  (The 'ascension' of the children to a higher state of existence.)  I've probably read everything ACC wrote in the Sci-Fi genre, and some was great while some was less than great.  But Childhood's End was (for me) very disturbing/distressing and left a bitter taste in my mind.  Whether that makes it a good story or a bad one, I guess is a decision left up to the individual.

[Jamoche]

A classic, certainly.  Beloved?  I don't know.  It is a dark and depressing tale with nothing that can remotely be called a happy ending. 

 

The people it's beloved by are the ones who think the ascension is a happy ending. There's no arguing with them - especially when one of them was the college prof who assigned it.

[Frozendiva]

I've only seen the first two installments (so far).

 

If something seems too good to be true, it probably is! Being offered something for nothing - what's the catch? Surely the G8 and the UN would have wanted extensive chat sessions with the 'Overlords'. Many people wouldn't be thrilled to have an Earth 'supervisor'. Where is the media digging in to the story?  Where are the rebels/Resistance? Things don't come *that* easy. It's not the Middle Ages any more - with serious information control.

 

I agree with the poster who spoke about the arrival of the aliens challenging worldwide religious beliefs. We are not alone in the Universe. It's a big place.  Have the Overlords visited anyone else? Is their homeworld dead and are they in search of a food or water source?

 

Kerellan revealing himself to be the very much the image of the 'stereotypical' Christian devil is too easy. That iconic Christian image would mean little to those from the other world religions. No need for faith or questioning when you get what you want.

 

Also seemed a throwback to the Dark Ages. The loss of scientific enquiry. The time before Abelard and 'Sic et Non'. People just seem too easily taken in, too gullible, and not asking questions.

[Bruinsfan]

Overalls! Can't be wasting any time getting back into the fields after planting her! (Heck, maybe it was a twofer; hold the service, then put her in the cornfield as fertilizer...)

[shrewd.buddha]

The theme I took from the book was that it was humanity's destiny to evolve and the Overlords were sent when humanity was determined to be on the verge of change. I took the ending of humanity as bittersweet : you cannot move forward without leaving the place where you are... you cannot have butterflies without the 'death' of caterpillars ... parents want their children to grow up and move on but it also makes them sad.

 

This Syfy series didn't seem to care much about such themes as the sadness versus hopefulness that comes from change or evolution. These writers were more concerned with love triangles for Ricky the farmer (with shirtless scenes) and the horror story approach of children being taken away from their parents. The Milo character also got stuck with a tragic love story. And the whole 'remember us as the species that had cookie dough ice cream' was just silly. 

 

I do think that Arthur C. Clarke, like a lot of sci-fi writers , had the problem of having a narcissistic view of humanity as in : humans are the only species on Earth that matter or would be of any real interest to aliens - -  and when humans are gone, the Earth might as well be gone, too. Clarke had interesting ideas but he did not always write completely satisfying stories. But it is a shame that after all these years the book got this weak adaptation from Syfy. 

[Netfoot]

And the whole 'remember us as the species that had cookie dough ice cream' was just silly. 

 

Except, it was the piece of music (which I didn't recognize) that was to be the memorial for our planet.  Not the ice cream.

[Bruinsfan]

I suppose it's a similar question to "Is coming together to form a colony organism a happy ending for all the microorganisms that make it up?" I'm sure there would be new vistas of knowledge and capability opened up by the evolution depicted, but humanity's children lose their individuality and the  experiences that each would have had living their own lives.

[fauntleroy]

Except, it was the piece of music (which I didn't recognize) that was to be the memorial for our planet.  Not the ice cream.

 

The Lark Ascending by Ralph Vaughan Williams (courtesy of closed captioning).

 

And they didn't even take it with them, just left it there (not sure how - playing by itself in space?) for 'anyone who might pass by' with their windows open? Namely nobody.

[raven]

 

This Syfy series didn't seem to care much about such themes as the sadness versus hopefulness that comes from change or evolution.

The series was always going to struggle I think because the theme of fatalism/acceptance that's so prevalent in the book (written in the 50s) would not fly today.  Stormgren is probably the best example, as a lot of his inner thoughts revolve around him believing completely in the Overlords and that it's futile to resist them.  It is clear in the book that Overlord tech is so far advanced that they can do whatever they want and humanity has to accept it, which is exactly how the Overlord/Overmind relationship is.

 

What resonates for me with the book are the themes of acceptance and sadness.  Simple things like Jeff's (the first child to start to change) dog being sad that his friend has left him.  The parents feeling helpless. The creepiness of the infant daughter in her room, not needing her parents, who are desperate but afraid to approach her.  The descriptions of where Jeff travels through his mind are effective enough to make the reader wonder that maybe this change is worth it.  Though not a perfect novel, I think it raises interesting discussion points that the series failed to.

 

Though it ended up feeling tedious to me, I appreciate the show's effort and thought some of the acting was good but it ultimately wandered a bit too far from the questions of acceptance/transition etc and the emotions were lost.

Edited December 20, 2015 by raven

[shrewd.buddha]

I suppose it's a similar question to "Is coming together to form a colony organism a happy ending for all the microorganisms that make it up?" .

The unified mind thing was Clarke's idea of ascension and evolution. But it seems that most of the regret and sadness is on the 'caterpillar' side of metamorphosis and not the 'butterfly' side. 

Even if we were to ascend to individual beings of pure consciousness there would be a great loss of being humans with bodies who enjoy the world by seeing, hearing, smelling, touching and tasting. I am not even sure people are capable of imagining an existence that doesn't include bodily sensations, especially vision ( for those of us fortunate enough to be able to see).

 

I think the idea of 'death' by evolution is similar to the dilemma of "I want to go to heaven but I don't want to die to get there."

There is a sense of loss when things change but no one hopes for a future where nothing - at all -  ever changes.

Edited December 20, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[Netfoot]

The Lark Ascending by Ralph Vaughan Williams (courtesy of closed captioning).

 

Mph.  I have that in my collection, but I haven't listened to it for years, and I was never particularly fond of it.  I wonder why they chose that?  I suppose under the circumstances they couldn't choose Freddie Mercury belting out "We are the champions!"

[fauntleroy]

Vaughan Williams' music was also used in 2001: A Space Odyssey I think. Maybe music Clarke heard when young.

 

Any musical choice will be arbitrary. See also cookie dough ice cream which personally, bleah.

Edited December 21, 2015 by fauntleroy

[SoSueMe]

I'm trying to get through this on the Sunday replay but it's tough. I haven't read the books so maybe that is why it seem so slow and plodding. The repetitive and "tense" (as the captions call it) music is becoming really annoying. I keep thinking how much a goofy little show like Z Nation can do with so little and then this show with all the effects and everything seems so amateurish. I really don't care what happens to any of the characters, at this point I've got it on mainly to hear Charles Dance's voice, lol. YMMV

[Canada]

Does anyone know who played the guy living in his car (Kenny?)?  I can't find him listed in any cast listing and every time I heard him speak, I swear I can hear Morgan Freeman.  But it didn't really look like him.

[Jordan27]

I agree with many of the things said here especially about Barbie's farm.   The media, the people and security would have been totally different.

 

But, another thing that didn't ring true was people giving up on their faith.  Most people would not give up on their faith because an alien visited.  I know I wouldn't.

I liked it and they did the reveal at the end in good dramatic fashion.  Although, I figured out exactly what Karellen would look like without any knowledge of the book.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Jordan27

[Jordan27]

They just glossed over how this 'golden age of humanity' actually worked. Were robots producing the clothes, houses, appliances, etc. that the humans were not having to pay for? Were people doing manual labor just for the fun of it? There were waiters serving drinks at the big party in Africa ... why would people still be doing that? Why would there still be deputies keeping the looky-loos on the other side of the fence at Ricky's farming-for-the-hell-of-it ranch?

 

Yep, this made no sense.  They made it seem like no one had to work.  But, where was the food coming from?  Who was delivering it?  Where was power coming from?  How do they have cars that run?  Where does gas come from?  Unless it's magic, this was never really explained.

[Jordan27]

One interesting point made in the book was that the existence of many religions basically means they cannot all be true (especially if taken literally).

 

I think that is one thing that most people know, but don't express very often.  Most want to be tolerant of other's beliefs.  But, the point is that either there is a heaven or not, there is either a hell or not, Jesus died for our sins or he didn't, we have lived before or we haven't, and there is either a God or not, etc.  All of these can't be true and exist on a reality level.    And since there is no majority belief in the world, most of mankind have it wrong.  And if a big faith isn't the truth, an overwhelming number of mankind have it wrong.