Mothers, Mentors, and Mates: Relationships

[Trini]

Discussion about the various relationships (familial, romantic, professional) in Supergirl.

 

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I don't know how the show wants me to feel about the love triangle (actually, quadrangle); I'm lukewarm about it because I don't want Kara with either Winn or Jimmy -- at the moment.

 

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I don't know how many here also watch The Flash, but one element that I think was copied from that show was the "3 Fathers" concept. On Flash, the lead, Barry, had (the first season) three father figures: his father, his foster father, and his science idol/mentor. Each with a different presence and emotional importance in his life. Here on Supergirl, I see the writers doing something similar. Kara has her mother (and her hologram), her adopted mother, and her boss/mentor as her three maternal figures.

 

Before the show premiered, I wasn't sure how Cat Grant would work on the show; I thought maybe it would be like Perry White on Lois & Clark, but it's a nice surprise that her role is more than that. Knowingly and unknowingly, Cat is shaping who Supergirl is and helping her become a better hero.

 

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Thoughts on these and the other relationships?

[Chicago Redshirt]

One of the things that interests me is that Supergirl flips the script on how a lot of these genre shows/comics do about parental figures. With a lot of the male heroes, the father figure(s) loom(s) fairly large in how they got to be who they are. Jor-El/Pa Kent tend to be more important than Lara/Ma Kent. Uncle Ben is more important than Aunt May in a lot of ways to Spidey. Thomas Wayne is more important than Martha. So on and so on.

 

Kara's mother figures are more important to her than her father figures, for the most part. Zor-El has hardly been mentioned. Jeremy Danvers doesn't seem to be particularly important to Kara except in so far as he's Alex's real dad; it stood out (at least to me) that she referred to him mostly as Alex's dad, rather than her own foster dad. One could make the argument that Superman is an exception to this rule, but even there how they are playing it so far seems like they are not all that close. We have no indication that SM has any clue about the Fort Rozz escapees including one of his in-laws and other Kryptonians, nor of him telling Kara fundamental info that she should know like the possibility of depleting her powers or the existence of Kryptonite.

 

Arrow (another show from the same set of producers) also had the multi-dad sort of concept. Actual dad Robert Queen inspired Ollie from beyond the grave. Walter became his step-dad, although the two weren't tremendously close until Ollie had to rescue him. And Digg seemed kind of daddish at first, trying to nurture Ollie and support him. 

 

I think it will come to pass that Astra will also be the sort of wicked step-mother type figure corresponding to Reverse-Flash and Malcolm Merlyn being the the evil dad figures on Flash and Arrow.

[Trini]

Another interesting relationship is the one between Kara and Clark. I get that the show doesn't want Superman to overshadow Supergirl, but it surprising that Clark/Kal-El is apparently so distant with his only living relative*. You'd think he could have at least mentioned kryptonite to her, just in case.

 

 

*Well, now there's Aunt Astra, so he has two now...

 

ETA: Typed at the same time as Chicago R.!

Edited December 15, 2015 by Trini

[legaleagle53]

Another interesting relationship is the one between Kara and Clark. I get that the show doesn't want Superman to overshadow Supergirl, but it surprising that Clark/Kal-El is apparently so distant with his only living relative*. You'd think he could have at least mentioned kryptonite to her, just in case.

 

 

*Well, now there's Aunt Astra, so he has two now...

 

ETA: Typed at the same time as Chicago R.!

 

Actually, Astra's not related to him at all.  She is Kara's blood aunt and the sister-in-law of Kara's biological father Zor-El.  Superman's blood relation to Kara is through their fathers, Jor-El (Superman's dad) and Zor-El (Kara's dad).  Alura is Superman's aunt by marriage only, so there's no way for Astra to have any sort of familial relationship at all to him, even though she has a direct blood relationship to Kara as Alura's sister.

Edited December 15, 2015 by legaleagle53

[Trini]

Ok, thanks legaleagle!

[Kromm]

One of the things that interests me is that Supergirl flips the script on how a lot of these genre shows/comics do about parental figures. With a lot of the male heroes, the father figure(s) loom(s) fairly large in how they got to be who they are. Jor-El/Pa Kent tend to be more important than Lara/Ma Kent. Uncle Ben is more important than Aunt May in a lot of ways to Spidey. Thomas Wayne is more important than Martha. So on and so on.

 

Kara's mother figures are more important to her than her father figures, for the most part. Zor-El has hardly been mentioned. Jeremy Danvers doesn't seem to be particularly important to Kara except in so far as he's Alex's real dad; it stood out (at least to me) that she referred to him mostly as Alex's dad, rather than her own foster dad. One could make the argument that Superman is an exception to this rule, but even there how they are playing it so far seems like they are not all that close. We have no indication that SM has any clue about the Fort Rozz escapees including one of his in-laws and other Kryptonians, nor of him telling Kara fundamental info that she should know like the possibility of depleting her powers or the existence of Kryptonite.

 

Arrow (another show from the same set of producers) also had the multi-dad sort of concept. Actual dad Robert Queen inspired Ollie from beyond the grave. Walter became his step-dad, although the two weren't tremendously close until Ollie had to rescue him. And Digg seemed kind of daddish at first, trying to nurture Ollie and support him. 

 

I think it will come to pass that Astra will also be the sort of wicked step-mother type figure corresponding to Reverse-Flash and Malcolm Merlyn being the the evil dad figures on Flash and Arrow.

I think they already flipped the script on this.  Astra was given actual motives (albeit them surrounded by extreme action) and Alura some clear flaws. And two other mother figures are in the mix--an adoptive mother and a mentor who's relationship with Kara is clearly taking a far more maternal turn.

[legaleagle53]

I think they already flipped the script on this.  Astra was given actual motives (albeit them surrounded by extreme action) and Alura some clear flaws. And two other mother figures are in the mix--an adoptive mother and a mentor who's relationship with Kara is clearly taking a far more maternal turn.

 

And don't forget Alex, who is also something of a mother figure to Kara by virtue of the fact that Alex was charged at age 14 by her own parents with keeping Kara safe and in line as Kara's older adoptive sister despite being only a couple of years older than Kara.  Such is the lot of an older sibling (said the man who grew up as the oldest of four boys).

[queenanne]

One of the things that interests me is that Supergirl flips the script on how a lot of these genre shows/comics do about parental figures. With a lot of the male heroes, the father figure(s) loom(s) fairly large in how they got to be who they are. Jor-El/Pa Kent tend to be more important than Lara/Ma Kent. Uncle Ben is more important than Aunt May in a lot of ways to Spidey. Thomas Wayne is more important than Martha. So on and so on.

 

Kara's mother figures are more important to her than her father figures, for the most part. Zor-El has hardly been mentioned. Jeremy Danvers doesn't seem to be particularly important to Kara except in so far as he's Alex's real dad; it stood out (at least to me) that she referred to him mostly as Alex's dad, rather than her own foster dad. One could make the argument that Superman is an exception to this rule, but even there how they are playing it so far seems like they are not all that close. We have no indication that SM has any clue about the Fort Rozz escapees including one of his in-laws and other Kryptonians, nor of him telling Kara fundamental info that she should know like the possibility of depleting her powers or the existence of Kryptonite.

 

Agreed, but this one is kind of an easy out/cheat for Berlanti et al, since Jeremy Danvers can be important to Alex, and backdoor a male parental figure into preeminence that way.

[KirkB]

I watched the pilot again not too long ago, and I'm left wondering exactly what the relationship between Kara and Clark is like. When she's talking to James about the picture she asks "What is he like in real life?" Now, that's exactly the kind of question I would expect someone who has only ever seen Superman from afar to ask someone known publicly as his best friend, but it's odd for Kara unless Clark dumped her with the Danvers and never came to see her again. I guess she could be asking it BECAUSE it's the kind of thing you'd expect. Kara also says in the pilot she hasn't flown in a long time so she's obviously not traipsing off to Metropolis on a regular basis, at least not under her own power, but nothing is stopping Clark from coming for a visit. Because if I were him I would want to have a lot of pretty in depth conversations with someone who has living memories of a planet he will never get to see.

Edited January 13, 2016 by KirkB

[Kromm]

I watched the pilot again not too long ago, and I'm left wondering exactly what the relationship between Kara and Clark is like. When she's talking to James about the picture she asks "What is he like in real life?" Now, that's exactly the kind of question I would expect someone who has only ever seen Superman from afar to ask someone known publicly as his best friend, but it's odd for Kara unless Clark dumped her with the Danvers and never came to see her again. I guess she could be asking it BECAUSE it's the kind of thing you'd expect. Kara also says in the pilot she hasn't flown in a long time so she's obviously not traipsing off to Metropolis on a regular basis, at least not under her own power, but nothing is stopping Clark from coming for a visit. Because if I were him I would want to have a lot of pretty in depth conversations with someone who has living memories of a planet he will never get to see.

I don't remember that from the Pilot, but I suppose it's easy to justify given that she asks it of him as Kara Danvers, who doesn't yet know that James Olsen knows who she is. She's asking, I presume, during that first scene in his office and she doesn't learn/guess his state of knowledge until 25 minutes later in the episode.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I would like some more backstory on Kara's dating history. The show has tried to portray her as relatively inexperienced with romantic relationships. The line from Alex is that she's spent more time in "the Friend Zone than the Phantom Zone." 

 

The obvious question is why. 

 

Obviously on a superficial level, Kara is a very attractive woman. One would think that there'd be any number of people trying to date her on any level from a serious relationship to just a hookup.

 

And of course she has many fine personality traits and so forth. 

 

So is it that she has shied away from romantic relationships because of being Kryptonian? Is she canonically a virgin? At the risk of being crass, does she have to worry about "Maid of Steel Trap, Man of Styrofoam" type issues?

 

On a more emotional level, how is it that she's failing to notice the men who are attracted to her, from Jimmy to Winn to now Adam?

 

Her ignorance would make more sense if she just came to Earth as a 24-year-old. But she's been on the planet for 12 years and (presumably) had some interactions with other folks, steeped herself in culture, etc.

[statsgirl]

Kara is attractive but she may not see herself as attractive.  She's also super self-conscious that she's  different than everyone else, an alien. Or rather, An Alien.  She may also be afraid that casual dating, much less getting into a relationship, who end up with her outing herself so she's kept herself away from noticing when men like her.

 

If she had had more experience with men, she wouldn't have handled Winn so badly.

[Perfect Xero]

I would like some more backstory on Kara's dating history. The show has tried to portray her as relatively inexperienced with romantic relationships. The line from Alex is that she's spent more time in "the Friend Zone than the Phantom Zone." 

 

The obvious question is why. 

 

Obviously on a superficial level, Kara is a very attractive woman. One would think that there'd be any number of people trying to date her on any level from a serious relationship to just a hookup.

 

I don't think there's much to it. TV is filled with attractive people who have no idea that they're attractive. This is what happens when the industry standard for a dateless "nerd" is casting someone who works as a professional model and putting them in glasses and giving them a hairstyle that doesn't look red carpet ready.

 

Our own Alex Danvers has some experience with this.

[legaleagle53]

 

I don't think there's much to it. TV is filled with attractive people who have no idea that they're attractive. This is what happens when the industry standard for a dateless "nerd" is casting someone who works as a professional model and putting them in glasses and giving them a hairstyle that doesn't look red carpet ready.

 

Our own Alex Danvers has some experience with this.

 

It's amazing how much Chyler's character in that clip actually looks like Kara Danvers.

[MarkHB]

Yes, Kara's very attractive, but I think she's been too shy (MB once said that what Kara and Marley Rose had in common was "wallflower-itis") and/or self-conscious to date much.  It's entirely possible to be lousy at picking up on things like flirting, which the flirter then misreads as disinterest.  Plus, as we saw in the pilot, she doesn't even have a decent answer for a total getting-to-know-you small-talk question like "where were you born."

[Chicago Redshirt]

In the case of Winn, he literally said in front of her words to the effect of "Oh, so you're a lesbian. That explains why you aren't interested in dating me." in the pilot. 

 

At the same time, I think the writers want us to believe that Kara had no idea that Winn was interested in her until he kissed her. 

 

Either that or she was just burying her head in the sand about the obvious signs that Winn was into her. 

 

I'm not sure which is better: if she was literally oblivious, or if she was just pretending to be.

[lion10]

Yes, Kara's very attractive, but I think she's been too shy (MB once said that what Kara and Marley Rose had in common was "wallflower-itis") and/or self-conscious to date much.  It's entirely possible to be lousy at picking up on things like flirting, which the flirter then misreads as disinterest.  Plus, as we saw in the pilot, she doesn't even have a decent answer for a total getting-to-know-you small-talk question like "where were you born."

 

Yeah, but a lot of guys like the whole "shy wallflower" thing Kara's got going on.  I find it very hard to believe that Kara's inexperienced in romance because we see her going on a date in the first episode, and a lot of guys would definitely either straight up ask her out for coffee/lunch/dinner or ask her if she wanted to go home with him.  I mean, she could be a virgin but she's definitely not inexperienced in romance.

 

I find it interesting how little Kara thinks about her father.  I know that this show is focusing more on mother-daughter relationships but it seems like Kara barely thinks about her dad.  Only a single flashback features him and just this episode, she talks about how she wishes her mom had crawled in her escape pod with her, and I was left thinking she really must've not liked her dad if she was okay with him dying on Krypton.  Maybe in Kryptonian culture it's customary to form the closest bonds with the parent that's the same sex as you.  

 

Speaking of Kryptonian culture, in 1x09 Kara threatens to have Superman come in to interrogate Astra.  In response Astra says "Kal-El doesn't have the stomach for it.  He was raised on Earth, he might as well be human.  You are the true heir to the House of El."  I think the show has done a poorer job than Man of Steel in demonstrating the differences between American and Kryptonian culture.  "Blood bonds us all" isn't much different than the idea of staying true to your family above all others OR the saying "blood is thicker than water" which means that the family you make is more important than the family you're born into.

[legaleagle53]

Yeah, but a lot of guys like the whole "shy wallflower" thing Kara's got going on.  I find it very hard to believe that Kara's inexperienced in romance because we see her going on a date in the first episode, and a lot of guys would definitely either straight up ask her out for coffee/lunch/dinner or ask her if she wanted to go home with him.  I mean, she could be a virgin but she's definitely not inexperienced in romance.

 

I find it interesting how little Kara thinks about her father.  I know that this show is focusing more on mother-daughter relationships but it seems like Kara barely thinks about her dad.  Only a single flashback features him and just this episode, she talks about how she wishes her mom had crawled in her escape pod with her, and I was left thinking she really must've not liked her dad if she was okay with him dying on Krypton.  Maybe in Kryptonian culture it's customary to form the closest bonds with the parent that's the same sex as you.  

 

Speaking of Kryptonian culture, in 1x09 Kara threatens to have Superman come in to interrogate Astra.  In response Astra says "Kal-El doesn't have the stomach for it.  He was raised on Earth, he might as well be human.  You are the true heir to the House of El."  I think the show has done a poorer job than Man of Steel in demonstrating the differences between American and Kryptonian culture.  "Blood bonds us all" isn't much different than the idea of staying true to your family above all others OR the saying "blood is thicker than water" which means that the family you make is more important than the family you're born into.

 

I always thought that saying meant the opposite, i.e., that blood ties take precedence over all others.

[secnarf]

I always thought that saying meant the opposite, i.e., that blood ties take precedence over all others.

That is what I thought too - that blood (your blood relatives) is more important than any family you may 'choose'.

[Chicago Redshirt]

From the Bizarro episode thread:

 

Anyone who thinks this production team want an interracial relationship to happen has not seen how they're going out of their way to avoid it on The Flash.

 

First, let's point out: for the entirety of Flash S1, Iris (who is black) was dating and ultimately engaged to Eddie (who is white). One may quibble about whether Iris truly loved Eddie or was basically just settling for him, or about any number of aspects about the relationship. But it existed, it was interracial and it for the most part, it was portrayed as happy.

 

For a while, Barry (who is white) was dating Linda (who is Asian). No obstacles about race broke them up. Rather, Linda could tell that Barry really loved Iris and didn't want to be second-best.

 

The fact that Iris and Barry have not yet gotten together is not due to any hesitancy about interracial relationships. It is like just about all genre shows...there are obstacles put in the path of the lead characters dating for no reason. 

 

Second, let's point out that on the other show by this production team, Arrow, there have also been interracial relationships. Moira Queen (who is white) married Walter (who is black). Ollie (who is white) was in love with Shado (who is Asian), and was dating McKenna, who is presumably Indian. Most prominently, Diggle (who is black) is married to and has an adorable child with Lyla (who is white). 

 

Third, on Supergirl, Jimmy is dating Lucy (who is white). The issue about a Kara/Jimmy relationship is not that Jimmy is black and Kara is white so it's not going to happen. It's about the delay these types of shows always put between the lead and a permanent/final romantic partner.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Chicago Redshirt

[Kendra]

I really love WestAllen but I can't say the same for Kara/Jimmy. For me personally, I'm not liking the decision to change the personality of Jimmy so drastically from the comics. Since when is Jimmy Olsen a worldly-wise beautiful grown man with chiseled abs and a million dollar smile? And he prefers the more sophisticated form of the name, James, rather than Jimmy? I'm just not feeling this characterization of Jimmy Olsen that the show has created. For me, Winn is the "Jimmy Olsen" on this show---the goofy nerd who has a crush on Supergirl. If they wanted to create a character like James on the show, why not just create a whole different character? I've seen others states that Kara has to childlike naiveté to her. I agree and it's because of this, the romance feels off because he just seems so much older and more sophisticated. It's like watching a teenage school girl have a crush on a handsome young teacher. 

 

I should say that I don't really love Winn either as a love interest for Kara. Basically all of the romantic plots on this show have fallen flat. I don't really feel amazing chemistry between Melissa and either of the actors, but sometimes that just takes more time.

[lion10]

I think Alex is being underused so far in the series. She seemed pretty upset about having to kill the scientist that was controlling Red Tornado. That could have been interesting to explore. Or what about Alexis dad? Does she hold any resentment towards Kara for being the indirect cause of her dad's death or does she herself feel guilty about it?

So far Alex has been largely relegated to being Kara's support.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think there's a difference between supporting characters relationships and the lead characters main love interest. It's like Rob Thomas shows, yes there will be interracial dating but not with the white lead.

I think The Flash and Supergirl started out with the intention to have both lead characters eventually end up in interracial relationships. But honestly I think they're getting cold feet after the reaction to Iris and James.

I'm a Kara/Jimmy shipper and a WestAllen shipper so I hope I'm wrong but I expect both characters to be dead by May.

 

If the allegations are that the producers frown upon interracial relationships, and yet their shows feature a whole bunch of interracial relationships, I don't see where one can then move the goalposts and say, ok, they frown on interracial relationships for their chief protagonists.

 

We are 1.5 seasons into Flash. They may have WestAllen begin in the second half of S2, S3 or not at all. We "know" that WestAllen will happen at some point thanks to the future newspaper byline of Iris West-Allen. 

 

Ollie's present soulmate seems to be Felicity; his previous one was Laurel. Should we use that as evidence that the producers wouldn't let him have a longterm interracial relationship? I think not.

 

I forgot to mention Legends of Tomorrow. It's only a few episodes in, but the foundation of the show is that a white Egyptian and a black one have been falling in love for 4,000 years and being hunted down by an immortal madman. There may be other interracial relationships forming in that show -- Either Jax could date Sara, or Kendra could start dating any of the other characters, probably Rip or Atom. (I would not be averse to a Hawkanary pairing).

 

It's a little pessimistic to think that either Jimmy or Iris will actually be killed. I couldn't even see either of them written out (for real, as opposed to how poor Iris has been sidelined.)

[statsgirl]

I think the Arrow/Flash/Supergirl shows are fine about interracial relationships as Chicago Redshirt has argued.  A bigger problem for me is the fact that it took until this season to have a gay man on the show in spite of the fact that three (four?) of the actors and Berlanti himself are gay.  Sure, there was Sara's relationship with Nyssa but the creation of that felt more like titillation than honoring sexuality, especially as Nyssa is still ostensible married to Oliver.

 

(The problems with the Iris/Barry relationship is that the writers couldn't care less about any of the female characters on that show.  They are there only to serve the storylines of their men.)

 

 

Since when is Jimmy Olsen a worldly-wise beautiful grown man with chiseled abs and a million dollar smile? And he prefers the more sophisticated form of the name, James, rather than Jimmy? I'm just not feeling this characterization of Jimmy Olsen that the show has created. For me, Winn is the "Jimmy Olsen" on this show---the goofy nerd who has a crush on Supergirl.

People have to grow up sometime, hopefully even Winn.  Well not the manchildren on The Big Bang Theory but other people should.

 

I can accept that Jimmy Olsen was tired of playing the cub photographer and second banana and wanted to reinvent himself.  He moved from his childhood name of Jimmy to an adult James (I can't think of any adult I know who is called Jimmy), and moved to another city and into management.  Or maybe it's just that I don't find the goofy nerd attractive as a type.

 

I do think there are problems in trying to sell a James/Kara romance but I think it's more in the writing than in what the actors can do.  Like Barry and Iris, the EPs are scared of putting them together too soon and so it becomes an awkward push/pull.

[Zuleikha]

Both actors are white, Ciara Renee confirmed she's white on Twitter.

No, she didn't. She said she's white, black, Indian, and Native American. She did have one that's probably what you're thinking of where she said she was "white. European white," but she's clarified since that she's mixed. My guess is that she was being sarcastic in that tweet response and didn't expect anyone to take her seriously since she's not very white-reading at all. Per Google, she's also been in some weird interactions with people trying to tell her what her ethnic background is, so she's emphasized different parts of her background as a result.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Not sure where your getting the information that Legends is based on an interracial relationship. Both actors are white, Ciara Renee confirmed she's white on Twitter.

I don't think the producers frown on interracial relationships I think they're scared of the audience reacting badly to them. And the way some react to Iris and James being black I understand their fear. But I think giving in to that section of the audience is awful.

Well, putting aside that she looks like she is of mixed ethnicity, as others have said, she has described herself as of mixed ethnicity. The following link has a bunch of tweets from her confirming that she is white as well as black, Indian and Native American. 

 

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/99258560.html

 

If the producers were scared of the audience reacting badly to interracial relationships, I don't see why they would deliberately include all these other interracial relationships. No audience member demanded that Jimmy Olsen be black. I tend to doubt that any network executive did either. 

[JustaPerson]

Is there any chance Adam could come back? He's the best love interest for Kara on this show by far (no thanks to MB's being married to him and all). I'm meh on Jimmy and Winn is better as a friend. 

[Kendra]

Is there any chance Adam could come back? He's the best love interest for Kara on this show by far (no thanks to MB's being married to him and all). I'm meh on Jimmy and Winn is better as a friend.

I think we will see Adam again. These Berlanti shows seem to use the same characters throughout the course of series and have them pop in and out periodically. Adam felt genuine with his crush on Kara and I thought the chemistry was definitely there. Given that Blake is Melissa's husband I'm sure he would be willing to return if the opportunity was presented. The problem might be availability though. He is on the shortlist to play Han Solo. If he gets that, I can't see him having too much time to come back very much.

[statsgirl]

If he got to play Han Solo and also agreed to come back, can  you imagine how hard they would push Callista Flockhart to get her husband to come on the same episode as MBs?

[Trini]

The shot in "Solitude" with Kara, Alex, and 'Hank' was beautiful. THAT is the (platonic) love triangle the show should focus on.

 

I'm glad they've fixed the situation with Winn, now that they've essentially deleted his love interest role. He works better as a friend and tech support. The transition was actually pretty decent. He put his feelings out there; she rejected them; both were grumpy about it for a little while; and then they both moved on, all within 3 episodes.

 

... For me personally, I'm not liking the decision to change the personality of Jimmy so drastically from the comics. Since when is Jimmy Olsen a worldly-wise beautiful grown man with chiseled abs and a million dollar smile? And he prefers the more sophisticated form of the name, James, rather than Jimmy? I'm just not feeling this characterization of Jimmy Olsen that the show has created. ...

I am totally here for hot, mature JimmyJames Olsen.  :-D

However, I agree with you that as a love interest for Kara, he's not really working. I can see that maybe they are crushing on each other, but when Lucy said that they are in love with each other in the last episode, I rolled my eyes. James and only barely know each other, and I think it's a bit soon to be using the "L" word. Also, I hate it when third parties have to spell out things that the involved parties are supposedly feeling.

[statsgirl]

Me too on the hot, mature James front.

 

I think Kara and James are too much strangers to each other to be in love but I'd like to see how it works out now that Lucy has broken up with James.  Up to now, the writing has been too busy keeping James and Kara apart while also trying to write them as being into each other (we had Winn and Cat both say James had feelings for Kara, and Alex saying that Kara had feelings for him and now the very bad writing of Lucy saying they are in love with each other).  That was inevitably a massive fail in writing and viewing.  I doubt even Tom Hiddleston could have played James as trying to make a relationship with Lucy work while having feelings for an unattainable Kara.

 

I still like the idea of them as a couple but it's going to depend on what the show does from here on in. Way to soon to put them together, I just hope they can behave maturely through whatever stall the writers come up with now.

[Trini]

Forgot to add, that the show needs to find a better role for James than "Superman info dispenser". Love Interest isn't working; maybe they can develop his relationship with Cat more? In a professional or personal context, not romantic.

[Wishing Well]

Me too on the hot, mature James front.

I think Kara and James are too much strangers to each other to be in love but I'd like to see how it works out now that Lucy has broken up with James. Up to now, the writing has been too busy keeping James and Kara apart while also trying to write them as being into each other (we had Winn and Cat both say James had feelings for Kara, and Alex saying that Kara had feelings for him and now the very bad writing of Lucy saying they are in love with each other). That was inevitably a massive fail in writing and viewing. I doubt even Tom Hiddleston could have played James as trying to make a relationship with Lucy work while having feelings for an unattainable Kara.

I still like the idea of them as a couple but it's going to depend on what the show does from here on in. Way to soon to put them together, I just hope they can behave maturely through whatever stall the writers come up with now.

...different properties but now I desperately want Kara and co. to meet Loki.

[statsgirl]

I don't know if it's the way he's written or HIddleston's acting or maybe just the amount of time spent on him, but it feels like Loki is a much better villain than any Supergirl has had.

 

I've liked Cat's scenes with James, especially the one in Truth, Justice and the American Way.    He has enough status at Catco that he can challenge her and doesn't have to humble himself around her as Winn does, and when she meets him on that level, her interactions are more mature too. 

 

I like Cat/Kara scenes and Callista Flockhart is doing a really good job but sometimes the plotting requires that Cat be petty and immature in them such as when she got angry at Kara because the relationship didn't work out and Adam left, or when she hired Siobhan as Assistant #1 and shut Kara out even though Kara's been her assistant for ages.

[Chicago Redshirt]

In fairness, Hiddleston's Loki is probably in the top 5 villains in all of live-action superhero TV or film. It's probably not fair to expect Supergirl to reach the same heights. 

 

I would be content if they even got to the level of such Flarrowverse villains as Tom Cavanaugh's Reverse-Flash, Capt. Cold, Deathstroke, or 1st Season Malcolm Merlyn.

 

One of the main obstacles is that SG should be able to beat enemies like Toyman, Master Jailer, Red Tornado and others with both hands tied behind her back and her eyes kept shut. 

[legaleagle53]

True.  About the only comic-book villains that could at least really kick her butt were the Enchantress and Blackstar, and that's mainly because after Kryptonite and red-solar energy, magic is the one thing that is capable of completely nullifying a Kryptonian's powers -- and Kryptonians are highly susceptible to it.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I understand that the writers are somewhat in a Catch-22 when it comes to Superman. You can't really tell the conventional story of Supergirl without at least some reference to Superman in the background, and yet you don't want to have Superman overshadow Supergirl in her own show. 

 

The trouble is that the writers have made Superman seem at best aloof by being relatively uninvolved in Kara's life, beyond intervening with Reactron and having a couple of IM conversations.

 

Here's a (partial) list of things that Superman didn't do with her/for her:

 

1. Explain the existence of Kryptonite. It's one of the few things that can kill her, and she should probably know it exists.

 

2. Train her in the use of her powers. Even giving him a pass for the notion that she shouldn't use her powers as a teen, now that she's out of the closet as a superhero, you'd think he'd give her a quick run-through as to how to handle various things.

 

3. Explain that it is possible for her to burn out her powers completely through a "solar flare." Again, her life is at risk if she burns out of her powers. I'll add in here that he should have made her stay out of the way and recuperate, or offered to cover National City while she was down and it was experiencing an earthquake.

 

4. Take her to the Fortress of Solitude or at least explain to her about it. Yes, I know SG said he offered a number of times and she faked excuses because she thought going would make her homesick. You don't need x-ray vision to see through Kara's lies. He should have insisted, because it's very important. Suppose Superman were hurt or incapacitated, or an enemy arose who could only be defeated with weaponry or information based there? 

 

5. Get involved in the search for Fort Rozz aliens/helped with Kryptonian plot. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that SM tried to help find the escapees 12 years ago. Even if we are going to give him credit for doing so and being a massive failure, now that they have resurfaced, one would think he would do more. After all, the number of Kryptonians out there is conservatively somewhere like 8. All of whom have access to anti-Kryptonite shielding and other Kryptonian tech, a lifetime's worth of military and other experience, and who have been potentially using their powers for the last 12 years. If this was the Superman show, I'd be calling BS on not involving Supergirl in just because of the numerical advantage. With SG being a rookie, it seems foolish for him make her an offer she can't refuse to help.

 

6. Explain about Project Cadmus and why he doesn't work for the government. I'll put aside for the moment that any conventional Superman would not just sit back and knowingly let the government experiment on sentient aliens. But knowing that Kara might be threatened by Project Cadmus at some point, it's something he might have mentioned. Or at least, one would think that she might want to know that the reason he doesn't work with the DEO is because what Project Cadmus represents.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Chicago Redshirt

[Trini]

I understand that the writers are somewhat in a Catch-22 when it comes to Superman. You can't really tell the conventional story of Supergirl without at least some reference to Superman in the background, and yet you don't want to have Superman overshadow Supergirl in her own show. 

 

The trouble is that the writers have made Superman seem at best aloof by being relatively uninvolved in Kara's life, beyond intervening with Neutron and having a couple of IM conversations.

 

Here's a (partial) list of things that Superman didn't do with her/for her: ...

 

I don't want to see a lot of Superman on this Supergirl show, but I agree; it's problematic, and the list of things is just going to keep growing. TPTB will have sit down and come up with a better reason for Superman's absence/disinterest.

[Trini]

From the episode thread:

I actually don't hate Kara and Jimmy as a couple, but what I do hate is that EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER IS TRYING TO PUSH THEM TOGETHER.   ENOUGH show.  At least previous episodes tried to be just a tiny bit subtle about it.  I mean Winn, or Lucy, or Cat had like one line of dialogue each trying to convince James/Kara to just go for it already.   REAAAAAAALLLY did not need an entire episode with whole freaking subplots and multiple speeches about it.  Do there writers know nothing about building likable ships?  Also they even made freaking Barry Allen try to push Kara to James.  Seriously?  Barry who could not have acted any more oblivious towards James in the entire episode somehow and having just met the two of them that day somehow decides they belong together?  I call BS.

 

I don't mind James and Kara together either, but one of the main problems overall is that they are pushing this relationship too hard, too fast. Somebody convinced the writers that they needed a love polygon on this show, when they really didn't.

 

On Arrow, Oliver/Laurel had history as a couple, and even Oliver/Felicity waited a few seasons until they pulled the trigger on making that official. On the Flash, Barry/Iris have years of friendship. On Supergirl, Kara and James have only known each other for months, but they want to use the "L" word. Too soon. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Trini

[CabotCove]

Not all relationships need to take years to happen,tbh Supergirl  may not last more than 3-4 seasons, which is OK as not all shows are created to have 10 seasons. There has already been Smallville so Supergirl is kind of like an unofficial  spin off/sequel. With a short life span they can afford to be more fast paced.

Barry/Iris are being unnecessarily stalled this season and they barely have any memorable romantic beats this season. Oliver/Felicity have been been fast tracked from a first date to (almost) marriage. Not the greatest pacing there either in those shows, if you are going to go for a slowburn at least commit to it the whole way and do it right.

 

Not saying you Trini or anyone here specifically, just generally speaking.  I'm about over this "anyone but James", that is going on in this fandom. And no its really not about pacing at all, as someone can come from another universe (Barry) and already they are good with Kara in one episode. They are cute but no, too much sugar and too alike. I'm not saying its a racial thing with everyone but there is definitely an element of it in some circles. Adam, Winn, Barry even Cat, what do all those characters have in common?.  Not talking about disliking the ship but the violent denigrating and hatred for the ship (Karolsen) is kinda suspicious.

 

Sorry I don't see this so called chemistry that Kara had with Adam (her real life guy), real life couples dont usually work on screen for me, its like they make no effort to create TV chemistry. I believe that sometimes chemistry need time to grow, and I believe it usually gets better with time. So Im not much of a fan of this; two people can have chemistry in one scene/episode. Jimmy is not just there , he is the link and informer to Superfamily Mythology for Kara. He makes  effort to be part of the action with her, even though he is not a superhero or trained in combat, they are a team. I don't see how Adam could be anything other than being the boyfriend and he is Cat's boy, I prefer to think it was just a one shot thing. JMO. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by WildcardC

[shantown]

I think Kara has better chemistry with her boss and her sister than any of the males on the show!

[CabotCove]

Thats fair enough:),  but she still needs a romantic life, there is room for all kinds of chemistry and relationships. 

[KirkB]

Here's the thing I don't get. They can't use Superman openly, for various reasons. But they want Kara to go through the exact same sorts of things Superman did. Why not avoid using Superman all together? Since they are practically copying everything else (she got Bizarro and there was no indication from James that Clark had met anyone like that), the Black Mercy, why not just redo the origin story and say Kara was sent from Krypton and was found by the Kents, or the Danvers? You don't NEED Superman to have Supergirl, when you're basically doing an alternate version of known stories. Kara having to learn about her powers, about the existence of kryptonite, etc. All without the shadow of "How come Superman doesn't.....?"

[cambridgeguy]

The fact that James instantly started sulking when he found out Barry was a superhero does not bode well for a future relationship.  I can see him developing a massive inferiority complex - professionally, he's only where he is because Superman posed for him and Kara will always be considered better than him by virtually everyone.  I'd hate to see his reaction if a hero native to their earth ever shows up.

[legaleagle53]

KirkB, on 29 Mar 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

Here's the thing I don't get. They can't use Superman openly, for various reasons. But they want Kara to go through the exact same sorts of things Superman did. Why not avoid using Superman all together? Since they are practically copying everything else (she got Bizarro and there was no indication from James that Clark had met anyone like that), the Black Mercy, why not just redo the origin story and say Kara was sent from Krypton and was found by the Kents, or the Danvers? You don't NEED Superman to have Supergirl, when you're basically doing an alternate version of known stories. Kara having to learn about her powers, about the existence of kryptonite, etc. All without the shadow of "How come Superman doesn't.....?"

 

Because the fact that he's her first cousin is part of her origin, which the show has already flipped on its head by saying that she is chronologically 12 years older than he is and was originally supposed to watch over and train him as he grew from infancy to adulthood.  In the original story, she wasn't even born yet at the time of Krypton's destruction, nor did she know that Superman was her cousin until after she had arrived on Earth nearly 30 years after he did (she was only 15 when she arrived, and she only knew that he was a fellow Kryptonian.  She only found out about the familial connection when she let slip as she was explaining her origin to him that her father was Zor-El, who happened to be the brother of Superman's own father, Jor-El).

[Xander]

Kara's chemistry with James is not good in my opinion. It has nothing to do with race, politics or whatever one might try to imply. They just don't click like I prefer romantic couples to nor do I feel the heat between them. 

[Starfish35]

I didn't realize that her being older is not the original story, because Smallville did the same thing with their Kara that Supergirl has done, more or less. Kara was older, got trapped in stasis in her pod, and then when she got out she went around looking for her cousin as a small child, not realizing how much time had passed.

[KirkB]

I understand that Kara being Kal's cousin is part of her comic book origin but this is a TV show trying to do it's own thing, or rather a version of the original story. I was just saying there is no reason they couldn't have Kara be the lone survivor from Krypton and not deal with Kal at all.

[Perfect Xero]

The origin they used for Supergirl on the show is similar to the one they used in the new52, where Kara was a teenager on Krypton and remembers babysitting infant Kal (which makes her believe that Superman is lying about being her cousin at first).

 

I think they used a similar origin in the Superman/Batman storyline where they brought Kara back as Supergirl.

[CabotCove]

https://twitter.com/MehcadBrooks/status/714655913680896000

 

Sorry Lucy.

 

They are super cute, but they dont work for the same reason Superman/Wonder Woman dont, they are like the female/male version of each other

Edited March 29, 2016 by WildcardC