General Gabbery: DWTS

[classique]

The show gets about half the total numbers it used to, but that's still higher than a lot of shows on the air. The bigger concern is the low demo number that advertisers are obsessed with.

https://www.thewrap.com/dancing-with-stars-finale-this-is-us-ratings/

They need to find a way to get younger viewers to tun in. The things they've tried so far haven't worked. 

[spanana]

4 hours ago, crossover said:

Totally agree.  This was my point all along.

Yes, and to this point in time fans will still trot out the ratings are going down because "x pro isn't on the show" or because "x celeb isn't on the show".  Same way some fans always pledge to quit watching when their person gets eliminated and they boycott claiming that ratings will go down as a result.  Even for as much as Derek was the main pro of this show for so long, the ratings were pretty much the same whether he was on one season or not.

The other thing I think in DWTS's favor as far as longevity is concerned is reality is just cheaper to produce than scripted series.  Mind you if I had to guess, I think DWTS is probably on the higher end cost wise of reality shows.  In addition to pro/celeb salaries, there is a large crew, lots of travel, fancy/new costumes every week, big production numbers, etc.  But it still has to be cheaper to produce weekly than an hourly drama and it gets better ratings than most of the scripted dramas and fills up more air time.

Also additionally, DWTS can serve as a means to promote other ABC endeavors.

I do think reducing it to once a year and making it more of a yearly event might preserve the show longer, but I guess we'll see if that's true since we won't have another full season until next fall.  I doubt the four week one will really satisfy those jonesing for their show fix.

Edited November 25, 2017 by spanana

[Emily-D]

9 hours ago, classique said:

The show gets about half the total numbers it used to, but that's still higher than a lot of shows on the air. The bigger concern is the low demo number that advertisers are obsessed with.

https://www.thewrap.com/dancing-with-stars-finale-this-is-us-ratings/

They need to find a way to get younger viewers to tun in. The things they've tried so far haven't worked. 

Not scheduling it on the same night as the Voice would be a start. Isn’t Scandal ending this season? Since that officially marks the end of TGIT they should move Greys to Monday as their fans will follow it wherever it goes and move DWTS to Thursday. DWTS competes against the Voice, Big Bang Theory and Monday Night Football so no wonder it’s struggling.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Emily-D

[shoregirl]

12 minutes ago, Emily-D said:

Not scheduling it on the same night as the Voice would be a start. Isn’t Scandal ending this season? Since that officially marks the end of TGIT they should move Greys to Monday as their fans will follow it wherever it goes and move DWTS to Thursday. DWTS competes against the Voice, Big Bang Theory and Monday Night Football so no wonder it’s struggling.

Big Bang Theory is on Thursdays and it would still be up against Thurday Night Football.

[Toonces464]

22 hours ago, shoregirl said:

Big Bang Theory is on Thursdays and it would still be up against Thurday Night Football.

And the whole Must See Thursday that NBC is pushing.

[Andiethewestie]

Going through withdrawals from this great season of Dance.  Both SYTYCD and DWTS have been outstanding for Dance fans.  Anyone who is going to the shows it would be great if you post in General Gabbery your reflections.  I will be going January 20 to the Windsor Ceasar's Casino show so I'll post when I can.  Have a good Christmas All!    

[realdancemom]

1 minute ago, Andiethewestie said:

Going through withdrawals from this great season of Dance.  Both SYTYCD and DWTS have been outstanding for Dance fans.  Anyone who is going to the shows it would be great if you post in General Gabbery your reflections.  I will be going January 20 to the Windsor Ceasar's Casino show so I'll post when I can.  Have a good Christmas All!    

I had withdrawals last Monday too.  I agree that I loved watching both SYTYCD and DWTS.

[Andiethewestie]

Realdancemom it was a pleasure to read your posts this season.  I hope the Spring mini show for Athletes will at least fill the void until the next SYTYCD!    

[realdancemom]

3 hours ago, Andiethewestie said:

Realdancemom it was a pleasure to read your posts this season.  I hope the Spring mini show for Athletes will at least fill the void until the next SYTYCD!    

Thank you.  I like reading your posts too.  I noticed that we were rooting for the same people in SYTYCD and DWTS.

[Emily-D]

Merry Christmas to you all as well. Hope anyone who is going to see the tour enjoys it. The last one I went to was the one with Alek Skarlatos as the guest star and that was an amazing show. 

[Andiethewestie]

2 hours ago, Emily-D said:

Merry Christmas to you all as well. Hope anyone who is going to see the tour enjoys it. The last one I went to was the one with Alek Skarlatos as the guest star and that was an amazing show. 

Good to read- I have been to SYTYCD tour but not DWTS   ---- Merry Christmas and a happy 2018 

[Toonces464]

So Val's book is available for pre-order. Good for him for writing it and getting it published but I can't help but think there are other pros who I would've expected a memoir/autobiography from due to their fame, popularity and/or accomplishments. It just seems to me that Val and Maks love to milk this poor immigrant thing for all it's worth.

[crowceilidh]

Went hunting Val's book as I hadn't heard about it.  The poem to his brother Maks that can be found online is pretty friggin awful, but calling poetry 'verbal choreography' is pretty clever even if he didn't coin it.

[MsJamieDornan]

Have a great holiday season !

[realdancemom]

On 11/29/2017 at 8:21 PM, Andiethewestie said:

Good to read- I have been to SYTYCD tour but not DWTS   ---- Merry Christmas and a happy 2018 

I've also only been to SYTYCD shows but not DWTS.  I went with my daughters.  I don't think they would go with me to see DWTS since they don't watch it.  They can't stand the singing.  They have also passed by while I was watching.  The contestant was either awful or the girls were just bumping and grinding.  So they have no interest.  At least, the DWTS show is mostly pros so the dancing should be good.  And Jordan will be too.  Have fun!!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone!!  Hope 2018 is great too!!

[madpsych78]

Ok, so here are my predictions for S26:

Eliminated First: Tonya and Arike

I get such a Kate Gosselin vibe from Tonya and I could see her being voted off early, even if she turns out to have decent technique and musicality. Arike is the Alek Skarlatos of this group, and the fact that she is paired with Gleb does not help her very much here. Unless she wows the audience with her dancing, I predict she'll go out early here, although she may be very charming and would have probably lasted longer with a different pro.

Eliminated Second: Kareem and Johnny 

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a legend. If he's decent (and with Lindsay, he could be), he'll outlast Tonya. I actually think his height may be more of a disadvantage than his age. I suspect that Johnny Damon's technique will be on par with David Ross, but he won't be nearly as charming. If he lasts beyond second week it will be because of the fans.

Eliminated Third: Jennie and Chris

I think Jennie will place higher than Keo's other partners (except for Jodie), but will probably be out somewhere in the middle. She also seems to be at Candace Cameron levels of religious so hopefully she won't get into that too much on the show. Sorry Keo. If Kareem or Arike are good Jennie may go out even earlier than I predict. I also don't know Chris Mazdzer but he seems cute! He reminds me of James Hinchcliffe. I hope he's the dark horse that goes far. Unfortunately, he's the only luge athlete that we have had so there is no basis for comparison. 

Final Four: Jamie, Josh, Mirai, and Adam

I don't know much about Jamie Anderson but she seems likable. Louie Vito and Amy Purdy also were snowboarders so going based on that trend she may do OK. I think her pairing with Artem could help her, especially if a lot of fans want to see Artem win. I think she could go either fourth or fifth. Josh Norman is paired with Sharna, but the show has had a lot of football players over the years and they have generally done well, so I predict top half. It's also possible he may be in the final four.

But I honestly think that with the exception of Tonya, the figure skaters have a little bit of an advantage over the other athletes because they have musicality and experience learning routines, and so I am placing Adam and Mirai in the top two.  In addition, Adam seems to have gotten more press than most of the other celebrities outside of DWTS (except for Tonya). 

[Miss Slay]

I see that the old guard is officially out of Dancing With the Stars. It's nice that they have new people - but hardly anyone has a background in ballroom. I've found the choreography over the last few years to be really boring. The pro's that had experience with ballroom (Derek,Mark,Cheryl,Katrina,ect) always had interesting dances.

I like the new pros--but they haven't made for very interesting dances. 

I see the show loves to promote couples. I guess Maks and Peta and Emma and Sasha didn't make for very good tv- so they are putting their eggs into Jenna. Coincidence that after dating Val for a year - she gets back on the show with the frontrunner to win? Shouldn't he have gone to Sharna? She hasn't won and has been on the show for a while. But i'm cynical. 

[kitcloudkicker]

Maybe, just maybe, Jenna got her opportunity through hard work and her OWN relationships she’s built with people over the last 5 or so years? I find all this Val stuff really gross. Jenna knows everybody Val knows, has her own relationships with them, they’ve had plenty of time to see what she can or cannot do. She has her own agents and managers, she’s logically the next pro to bump up, (and if the argument is why not “old pros” well Jenna has an active contract). So why does her success have anything to do with a man? Did Val also “get” Mirai for Alan? Is Val dating Alan too? 

I also never get this “turns” thing. THERE ARE NO TURNS. It’s also assuming that Sharna’s partner is a dud, which he absolutely is not, he seems great for her! I watched part of an Instagram live they did yesterday and he’s charming, they’ve got great chemistry, she says he can move, and he’s already sent her a bunch of music he likes and dance inspiration he wants to learn, so he’s super engaged. He’s considered one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL, since when is the NFL guy dead weight?

Edited April 14, 2018 by kitcloudkicker

[truthaboutluv]

5 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Maybe, just maybe, Jenna got her opportunity through hard work and her OWN relationships she’s built with people over the last 5 or so years? I find all this Val stuff really gross.

Agreed. Jenna got on DWTS because of her Mandy Moore connection from her SYTYCD days and that's a connection she has maintained consistently - what with assisting Mandy plenty with the Pro numbers (not to mention all the help she has given to Val with his female celebrities). And I don't doubt for a second that all that assisting with Mandy has endeared her more to the producers and Powers That Be. 

I don't care a lick about this season (this four week thing is crap because I see no reason why ABC decided to gut DWTS in favor of their Idol reboot) but I did check out some stuff online and Jenna and Adam appear to be an awesome pairing who both just adore each other. I'm sorry, we are in the twilight of this show's life and people are still arguing about whose turn is when and who deserves who and ringers, etc. Like, really? Who gives a crap?

Edited April 14, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[spanana]

I agree that Jenna has paid her dues.  I do think Val is more able to pull strings than all the other remaining pros combined because TPTB need to keep him happy to ensure he comes back, but Jenna has paid her dues.  Doesn't mean I have to like her and I do think her skills are extremely overrated.  Yes, she is a talented dancer technically (maybe one of the most?) but her ridiculously over the top performance style is grating and she generally comes across a selfish partner who is more concerned about her screen time than helping someone else look good.  However the pro to an Adam/Jenna pairing is that he is not going to let her steal his shine.  His personality is so big that she won't be able to steamroll him or draw all the attention.

And yes, she is Mandy Moore's fave and that has zero to do with Val.  What I don't enjoy about Mandy however is she has increasingly become a Chmerkovskiy shill and she has a tendency to feature the same couple of dancers over and over instead of giving us any variety.  Oh yea, and she knows little about ballroom and yes is the main choreographer for a ballroom show.

But Jenna knows how to market herself, so she will be fine.  My annoyance is when it's always clear before the show even starts who will win and that is extremely obvious here.  Yes, Alan has a ringer but Adam is far more known generally outside of figure skating audiences.

Anyway, the rest is moot until is starts.  I'm sure they get along because almost everyone gets along at the beginning.  As long as she keeps him away from her super conservative family, but that would be true for all the Utah girls.

I do wonder if the thought process behind giving Alan and Jenna the two biggest ringers in the mini season is a bit of a trial by fire.  Kind of a if you can't manage to make it work with a ringer in a 4 week season than you are not cut out for this kind of thing.  They have been given every reason to succeed.

Edited April 14, 2018 by spanana

[Toonces464]

4 hours ago, spanana said:

And yes, she is Mandy Moore's fave and that has zero to do with Val.  What I don't enjoy about Mandy however is she has increasingly become a Chmerkovskiy shill and she has a tendency to feature the same couple of dancers over and over instead of giving us any variety.  Oh yea, and she knows little about ballroom and yes is the main choreographer for a ballroom show.

Remember when Maks brought her in to help him with his and Erin's contemporary freestyle because he only knows ballroom and that's her specialty? I think that was the beginning of the Mandy Moore/Chmerkovskiy era on DWTS. Erin even mentioned it when she was on All Access with Maks a few seasons ago -- "We were the first to use Mandy Moore and then she got a job on the show. You're welcome Mandy Moore."

But that also reminds me that when the show started with a troupe, two of the members were Nicole and Ted Volynets, neither of whom could dance very well (certainly not at a professional/TV level - Nicole was dumped after one season);. The show was definitely catering to Maks back in those days. But, to be fair, they also put Hayley in the troupe once she hooked up with Derek.

[spanana]

The troupe has evolved over the years.  When it started, weren't several of the troupe dancers Maks former students?  See in addition to Nicole and Teddy, also Kiki who was just on SYTYCD this past season (shockingly picked by one Jenna J), and is now on tour with the Peta and the boys.  I don't know entirely what happened but eventually all of the Maks people got dumped by the show.  I do remember Val I believe pitching a fit online when Kiki got dumped.

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, spanana said:

The troupe has evolved over the years.  When it started, weren't several of the troupe dancers Maks former students?  See in addition to Nicole and Teddy, also Kiki who was just on SYTYCD this past season (shockingly picked by one Jenna J), and is now on tour with the Peta and the boys.  I don't know entirely what happened but eventually all of the Maks people got dumped by the show.  I do remember Val I believe pitching a fit online when Kiki got dumped.

Yes, I forgot about Kiki. And Val did throw a fit when he was dumped.

I thought at the time they put the Volynets in the troupe to lure Maks back to the show. It was when he was off in Ukraine doing The Bachelor and first started making noise about moving on from the show. I thought he'd be too embarrassed to come back once that leaked out. LIttle did I know back then that Maks lives for that kind of publicity and attention! 

[Maya S]

5 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

Remember when Maks brought her in to help him with his and Erin's contemporary freestyle because he only knows ballroom and that's her specialty? I think that was the beginning of the Mandy Moore/Chmerkovskiy era on DWTS. Erin even mentioned it when she was on All Access with Maks a few seasons ago -- "We were the first to use Mandy Moore and then she got a job on the show. You're welcome Mandy Moore."

But that also reminds me that when the show started with a troupe, two of the members were Nicole and Ted Volynets, neither of whom could dance very well (certainly not at a professional/TV level - Nicole was dumped after one season);. The show was definitely catering to Maks back in those days. But, to be fair, they also put Hayley in the troupe once she hooked up with Derek.

And Hayley isn't even a ballroom dancer.  

[truthaboutluv]

7 minutes ago, Maya S said:

And Hayley isn't even a ballroom dancer.  

Yeah it always amuses me greatly how defensive her few fans from SYTYCD get whenever anyone said she got the gig after she started hooking up with Derek. They will have you know that that had zero to do with it and it was solely based on her amazing talent the producers saw during Derek and Julianne’s tour.  

Never mind that she did their first tour and apparently producers didn’t care then. Girl was a barely remembered sixth place finisher on SYTYCD and had no background in ballroom. She starts dating Derek and a few months later she’s in the troupe but yeah, no relation.

Edited April 15, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Maya S]

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah it always amuses me greatly how defensive her few fans from SYTYCD get whenever anyone said she got the gig after she started hooking up with Derek. They will have you know that that had zero to do with it and it was solely based on her amazing talent the producers saw during Derek and Julianne’s tour.  

Never mind that she did their first tour and apparently producers didn’t care then. Girl was a barely remembered sixth place finisher on SYTYCD and had no background in ballroom. She starts dating Derek and a few months later she’s in the troupe but yeah, no relation.

Yet people flip out over Jenna's relationship with Val as if that's the only reason why she's on the show.  At least she's an actual trained Latin and Ballroom dancer.  

[kitcloudkicker]

11 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah it always amuses me greatly how defensive her few fans from SYTYCD get whenever anyone said she got the gig after she started hooking up with Derek. They will have you know that that had zero to do with it and it was solely based on her amazing talent the producers saw during Derek and Julianne’s tour.  

Never mind that she did their first tour and apparently producers didn’t care then. Girl was a barely remembered sixth place finisher on SYTYCD and had no background in ballroom. She starts dating Derek and a few months later she’s in the troupe but yeah, no relation.

Okay but again, their next few troupe hires (namely Britt and Morgan, that Shannon guy) have proven that she’s exactly what the producers been looking for for troupe - a cross-trained industry dancer who picks up ballroom after they get the job. The Hough’s can help with a connection, I fail to see how they can be the reason you keep the job for 3 years, especially when there’s no Hough’s to “keep happy” anymore. And she’s since trained outside of the show with at the very least, private sessions with Sasha, Keo, and Shirley. (I often wonder why adulthood training doesn’t seem to “count?” Ballroom training ages 12-17 is training but 18-23 is not? And a top 6 finish is higher than any other SYTYCD alum on the show besides Witney, I think.)

 

It, all of it, feels gross to me. Sure who you know gets you connections, that’s how the world works. But there’s an extra layer of vitriol when it’s lobbed at Hayley and Jenna both that grosses me out. If they were both dramatically unqualified it maaaaybe might have some legs to it, but Jenna seems more than qualified to be a pro compared to the other people they’ve hired for pro, and Hayley more than qualified to be troupe, compared to the other people they’ve hired for troupe. If we were talking Hayley as a pro I’d say she has more growth to show, but we’re not there. 

[truthaboutluv]

37 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

The Hough’s can help with a connection, I fail to see how they can be the reason you keep the job for 3 years,

And I never said they were the reason she's kept the job. She seems to work hard on the show, has clearly built strong bonds with many of the other Pros and troupe members and I'm sure the producers like her well enough. What I was commenting on is my amusement that some of her fans truly think her dating Derek had zero to do with her initially ending up on the show and I'm sorry, I find that laughable and slightly delusional.

Just so we're clear, I'm not saying the girl started dating Derek just so she could secure a DWTS deal. But facts are facts. As I noted above, Hayley did the first Move tour and yet she ended up nowhere near DWTS when it was over. She lived with Jenna because they were on SYTYCD Season 10 (which also means Mandy Moore would have seen and known her as well), along with Alan, all while Jenna started on DWTS and still nothing. She does the second MOVE tour, starts hooking up with Derek and then a few months later is in the troupe. Okay, if you want to see those as totally unrelated, do you. 

To me, the reason the comments about Jenna regarding Val is ridiculous is because Jenna wasn't dating Val or had anything to do with him when she secured DWTS. We know Jenna's connection that got her DWTS - Mandy Moore. So I'm not denying that Jenna got on the show because of her outside connections, much like Hayley. It's just clear that connection wasn't who she was dating but Mandy, who she met while competing on SYTYCD. And that's a connection she's maintained, doing multiple seasons since hers as an All-Star. 

 

37 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

If we were talking Hayley as a pro I’d say she has more growth to show, but we’re not there. 

Again, tell that to her few ridiculous fans who by the way, some got blocked by Mandy Moore when they sent her hateful tweets for not featuring their "Queen" enough in the tour performances and Mandy's showing too much favoritism in their opinion to Jenna. Oh and they were whinging when the cast for this season was announced as they do every time another season comes and she's still in the troupe. Because yes, they certainly believe she's more than Pro worthy. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[kitcloudkicker]

21 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Again, tell that to her few ridiculous fans who by the way, some got blocked by Mandy Moore when they sent her hateful tweets for not featuring their "Queen" enough in the tour performances and Mandy's showing too much favoritism in their opinion to Jenna. Oh and they were whinging when the cast for this season was announced as they do every time another season comes and she's still in the troupe. Because yes, they certainly believe she's more than Pro worthy. 

Okay, but those are people who are 1) Superfans and 2) An average age of 16. I’ve never had the personality of a super fan, but even at 16 I wouldn’t have recommended that one of my *NSYNC obsessed friends give an honest appraisal of Lance Bass’s acting chops and whether or not he should win awards for On The Line. Of course they love her and everything she does! That’s the point of being a fan!

But because she’s not quite so awesome as her biggest cheerleaders think she is doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve to be there, or that she slept her way into a job which is where the other extreme seems to go. I think maybe we agree? I’m not denying that a vote of confidence from Derek helped, just that it wouldn’t have mattered if they weren’t expressly looking for industry dancers (from the same dance agency) who could hit their marks, learn choreography quickly, and had shown an aptitude toward picking up ballroom steps. They hired her and hired Britt and Shannon, later Morgan, soon after, who had similar non-ballroom backgrounds, the same talent agency/representation, and were not hooking up with Derek. Several things had to line up for her to be the right choice for troupe at that moment.

I find Hayley interesting, in that I find her wonderfully magnetic in group numbers and in bumpers. She pulls my focus every time, she’s a standout for me there. But as soon as they put the spotlight fully on her she shrinks or pulls back. Which is why I like her in the troupe and find she’s got a ways to go to prove she’s ready for pro spotlight.

[truthaboutluv]

12 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

But because she’s not quite so awesome as her biggest cheerleaders think she is doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve to be there, or that she slept her way into a job which is where the other extreme seems to go. I think maybe we agree?

Yes we do because I've never said either of those two things. 

[Thadeeeyus]

8 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Okay, but those are people who are 1) Superfans and 2) An average age of 16.....

I thought the average age was more along the lines of 70 for that particular fan group.  ;) 

All I have to say about this season is Go, Sasha.! Great opportunity to see what you're made of.  

[kitcloudkicker]

10 minutes ago, Thadeeeyus said:

I thought the average age was more along the lines of 70 for that particular fan group.  ;) 

Nah, the twitter fans are all mostly babies, and they like to start “drama” for their own amusement, see things as black and white as teenagers tend to do, and Mandy probably just blocked them because they were annoying. Instead of doing it in a note they pass back and forth they have twitter now. 

[boyznkatz]

None of the pros they have currently impress me that much, except Artem and Lindsay has her moments. I don’t know who Haley is, but if she isn’t a ballroom dancer, no thanks.

I wish they would bring back the ballroom experts like Tony and Karina and go back to ballroom dancing. Even the Houghs and C brothers were awesome dancers and fun to watch in spite of their gigantic egos. 

[spanana]

Yes, more often than not these days they seem to be looking for cross trained pros for troupes, so no ballroom isn't exactly a disqualifying feature. I think they want people who can do it all and are passable enough in ballroom, with perhaps potential room to grow.  And if they do hire actual ballroom people, they are going to be people that also trained in contemp and such growing up (see the Utah girls, even if most of them are laughable at hip hop and such).

DWTS has actually been very heavy on SYTYCD dancers from S10, so I'm not sure what was in the water from that season.  Hayley, Jenna, Alan and for awhile Brittany Cherry. Brittany is the one the show has been the worst to over the years, in terms of they kept hiring her and firing her only to re-hire her five seconds later.  I think she is currently working on World of Dance, but the show loved stringing her along and she does have the ballroom training. I actually think she would have made a good pro for a celeb, but the show really seems to not like her for whatever reason that I don't understand.

I am not going to claim that any female was hired because of who they are dating and yes, Jenna didn't even meet Val until after she was on the show.  The fact that he started seeing her in her first season when she was still a teenager is icky, but that is his ickiness and not hers.  However it's also not a dig to Hayley that she was ONLY a top 6 finisher on SYTYCD.  Especially when she placed higher in her season than Jenna, Alan and Brittany (but yes, I know they are all ballroom trained).  

I will give fans if they get annoyed that Mandy features the same dancers over and over because she does.  I get that she has her faves and she can have her faves assist her, but I would like more variety in who gets featured in group/troupe pro numbers.  However yes, all fans are going to be outraged on behalf of their faves and yes, DWTS is very odd in terms of fan groups.  Of course there are the middle aged women, but I think thanks in large part to social media there are a lot of young teens who live to interact with their faves online.  They also love to "ship" anything that moves.  Depending on their allegiances they live to ship Valenna (Jenna/Val), Dayley (Derek/Hayley) and I guess to some extent Esha (Emma/Sasha).  Heck, they will even ship Lindsay and her husband.

One trend I noticed during the last tour is the trend of younger fans visiting tour and bringing the pros, either all of them or just their faves, personalized gifts.  More often than not the gifts presented to Hayley, Jenna, Emma and Lindsay were gifts pertaining to their relationships with their significant others.  Picture collages of them together, giving the girls necklaces with the initials of their suitor, blankets with their faces on it, etc.  I know the fans are well intentioned so it's not the end of the world, but I find it a bit concerning that often a lot of the fan interest only seems to be an extension of who is dating who or putting these people on pedestals as the ideal of perfect relationships.

[kitcloudkicker]

50 minutes ago, spanana said:

One trend I noticed during the last tour is the trend of younger fans visiting tour and bringing the pros, either all of them or just their faves, personalized gifts.  More often than not the gifts presented to Hayley, Jenna, Emma and Lindsay were gifts pertaining to their relationships with their significant others.  Picture collages of them together, giving the girls necklaces with the initials of their suitor, blankets with their faces on it, etc.  I know the fans are well intentioned so it's not the end of the world, but I find it a bit concerning that often a lot of the fan interest only seems to be an extension of who is dating who or putting these people on pedestals as the ideal of perfect relationships

It is odd. I’ve been debating with myself if it’s any different from when my friends and I thought Britney+Justin or Reese+Ryan were “OMG so perfect” and it’s the perspective of adulthood that makes this feel creepier or if it really is something new. It’s maybe the feedback loop of social media - we had no way to send them our obsessions and they didn’t have to feel obligated to respond. I think the pros have gotten themselves a bit stuck with the gifts - the teens give them to get a social media shoutout, the pros feel obligated to give the shoutout/thank you, and the cycle continues. 

[spanana]

2 hours ago, kitcloudkicker said:

It is odd. I’ve been debating with myself if it’s any different from when my friends and I thought Britney+Justin or Reese+Ryan were “OMG so perfect” and it’s the perspective of adulthood that makes this feel creepier or if it really is something new. It’s maybe the feedback loop of social media - we had no way to send them our obsessions and they didn’t have to feel obligated to respond. I think the pros have gotten themselves a bit stuck with the gifts - the teens give them to get a social media shoutout, the pros feel obligated to give the shoutout/thank you, and the cycle continues. 

I don't think there is anything odd about shipping itself as it's a normal part of adolescence.  When it's middle aged women throwing fits over Maksyl then that is another story, but when it's coming from teenagers I think it's generally okay.  I agree the immediacy of social media has changed things in that the pros themselves can egg it on or not as they wish, not just in responding to gifts, but they can egg on the shipping altogether based on what they post on their feeds.  They can post couple pics and post public comments back and forth with their person for the delight of the fans to ooh and ahh over.

The part where I get stuck is that the fans tend to give those sort of gifts more to the female pros than the male pros.  The female pros are the ones generally gifted blankets with their boyfriend's face on it and etc., particularly Jenna and Hayley.  There is this sort of weird underlying message to it that kind of reads like their worth is solely wrapped up in Val and Derek, their more famous and known counterparts, and that it's the only part of them the fans are interested in following.  Also it's sort of presumptive in the sense what if either of these couples break up tomorrow.  At least with Emma/Sasha it's a little less weird in that they are married.  

[Toonces464]

1 hour ago, spanana said:

I don't think there is anything odd about shipping itself as it's a normal part of adolescence.  When it's middle aged women throwing fits over Maksyl then that is another story, but when it's coming from teenagers I think it's generally okay.  I agree the immediacy of social media has changed things in that the pros themselves can egg it on or not as they wish, not just in responding to gifts, but they can egg on the shipping altogether based on what they post on their feeds.  They can post couple pics and post public comments back and forth with their person for the delight of the fans to ooh and ahh over.

It's no secret how I feel about the whole Maksyl nonsense, but to be fair, it's not just what they post in their social media feeds. Maks and Meryl used not only social media but the tabloid media to continue egging those shippers on long after the expiration date.

And Maks and Peta continue to use the media in all forms to try to keep themselves relevant outside of what has become a very young fan base of girls who worship Peta and see their relationship and the revised history they've invented as the greatest love story ever told. 

[boyznkatz]

What young girls worship Peta? I don’t think she or Maks have been relevant since they left dwts. Ever since the Maksyl shippers jumped ship, I don’t think anyone cares about him either. 

[truthaboutluv]

20 hours ago, spanana said:

However it's also not a dig to Hayley that she was ONLY a top 6 finisher on SYTYCD.  Especially when she placed higher in her season than Jenna, Alan and Brittany (but yes, I know they are all ballroom trained).  

I didn't say she was "only" a sixth place finisher as if that in itself is some insult. One of my all time favorite SYTYCD contestants is Mark Kanemura who finished in sixth place, along with Chelsie Hightower (who we all know was a Pro on DWTS for awhile). I said Hayley was a barely remembered sixth place finisher and just so we're clear, I'm only speaking for myself. It's the fact that she finished that high and I didn't remember her is what struck me as odd. Because Season 10 was one of the last seasons of SYTYCD that I watched most of. And I remembered most of the people. I remembered Paul, Amy and Fik-Shun of course, Jasmine, Aaron, and yes Alan and Jenna who were both eliminated before her. Hayley, it took me weeks to place her in that season. 

 

20 hours ago, spanana said:

I know the fans are well intentioned so it's not the end of the world, but I find it a bit concerning that often a lot of the fan interest only seems to be an extension of who is dating who or putting these people on pedestals as the ideal of perfect relationships.

Particularly interesting because putting the age differences aside with both Val/Jenna and Derek/Hayley, I would hardly call either of these relationships "goals" and it is sad that so many of these young fans see them as such. Val has jerked Jenna around for years, hooking up with multiple other people and going back to her when he was done having his fun (Amber Rose anyone?) to the point that Jenna wrote about this in a blog she has. She never mentioned Val by name of course but people aren't idiots. She essentially admitted in those blog articles how toxic the relationship was, how it did a number on her self-confidence, made her question her self-worth. Of course once Val decided to publicly claim her and has gone around acting like a man in love for the first time, she's since deleted the articles. 

Derek meanwhile played the "I'm single" game for almost a year of his relationship with Hayley, essentially hiding her. One of the most pitiful things I ever saw was when she went with him and Mark and B.C. to some tropical island and Derek posted multiple pictures with Mark and B.C., the entire staff that served them at the resort and not one of Hayley. Then there were the multiple unfollowings that told people he dumped her multiple times. Then he finally deigned to start acknowledging her, only to embarrass her in one of the worse ways on social media. I still to this day am curious about what the hell that whole mess was truly about. 

From the outside looking in, all it appeared as was that Hayley posted a picture of her and Val from their contemporary number on the tour and made some comment about chickens. Next thing Derek unfollows her, then comments under the picture about seeing how it is and glad she found a new home. The new home line really struck me because all I could think was, "what is she, a stray?" The shippers went into full panic, "the sky is falling" mode, some convincing themselves it was just Derek being funny with his odd sense of humor. Until Hayley came and flat out said that he wasn't joking.

Then her mother gets involved, getting into it with the nuts at Pure Derek Hough. The whole thing was a train wreck - amusing as hell for me to observe but a mess. Then of course less than an hour later, the comments were gone and he was cooing about missing her. What most stood out to me in that mess was the venom of Derek's comment. I've always said I think Derek is one of the most passive aggressive people. But yes, by all means if those teens want to see those as "couple goals", do you I guess. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Toonces464]

33 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Particularly interesting because putting the age differences aside with both Val/Jenna and Derek/Hayley, I would hardly call either of these relationships "goals" and it is sad that so many of these young fans see them as such. Val has jerked Jenna around for years, hooking up with multiple other people and going back to her when he was done having his fun (Amber Rose anyone?) to the point that Jenna wrote about this in a blog she has. She never mentioned Val by name of course but people aren't idiots. She essentially admitted in those blog articles how toxic the relationship was, how it did a number on her self-confidence, made her question her self-worth. Of course once Val decided to publicly claim her and has gone around acting like a man in love for the first time, she's since deleted the articles. 

Derek meanwhile played the "I'm single" game for almost a year of his relationship with Hayley, essentially hiding her. One of the most pitiful things I ever saw was when she went with him and Mark and B.C. to some tropical island and Derek posted multiple pictures with Mark and B.C., the entire staff that served them at the resort and not one of Hayley. Then there were the multiple unfollowings that told people he dumped her multiple times. Then he finally deigned to start acknowledging her, only to embarrass her in one of the worse ways on social media. I still to this day am curious about what the hell that whole mess was truly about. 

From the outside looking in, all it appeared as was that Hayley posted a picture of her and Val from their contemporary number on the tour and made some comment about chickens. Next thing Derek unfollows her, then comments under the picture about seeing how it is and glad she found a new home. The new home line really struck me because all I could think was, "what is she, a stray?" The shippers went into full panic, "the sky is falling" mode, some convincing themselves it was just Derek being funny with his odd sense of humor. Until Hayley came and flat out said that he wasn't joking.

Then her mother gets involved, getting into it with the nuts at Pure Derek Hough. The whole thing was a train wreck - amusing as hell for me to observe but a mess. Then of course less than an hour later, the comments were gone and he was cooing about missing her. What most stood out to me in that mess was the venom of Derek's comment. I've always said I think Derek is one of the most passive aggressive people. But yes, by all means if those teens want to see those as "couple goals", do you I guess. 

And let's not forget the ones who see Maks and Peta as the great love story of the century. Apparently the story he's shilling now is that he dumped her because he was soooooooo in love with her but too scared to tell her. I buy that as much as I buy that he knew instantly the breakup was a mistake and he spent years hovering around her, trying to get her back. I guess all that hovering came in between PR-dating Kate Upton and JLo, banging his personal trainer and laying around a beach in Hawaii with Karina.

Even Emma and Sasha, who I think are the most genuine of all the current DWTS relationships had their own breakup for awhile, where they continued living together but she seemed to have her sights set on Val. When that didn't go anywhere, she went back to Sasha. At least she didn't have to unpack.

I honestly thought when Sharna broke up with Paul that she had her sights set on Val so the two BFFs could be with the two brothers. But she never seemed to pursue that and I give her credit for it. I'm so over all these DWTS relationships.

[boyznkatz]

The only dwts relationship that has survived the years has been Edyta and her husband. Aren't they still together and don't they have kids? I always liked her. I wish she would come back.

[spanana]

I don't know enough about the ins/outs of these relationships and online fights.  However in Val's case, it's not even the other women he dated (like Amber).  He also had his Janel showmance during these years, which while Val claims it was fake on his end, there was something going on there because Janel literally broke up with her boyfriend at the time for Val.  So he also pushed Jenna aside during this time.  In his book (I didn't read it but of course fans post relevant pages), Val claims that the showmance was fake but Janel fell in love with him for real and he should have clued her in.  Which, you think?  I didn't care for her, but either you are lying or you used her and were aware that you were using her, and did it anyway.

My theory on Val has always been that Val wanted to keep his options open in case somebody "better" came along.  And by better I just mean more famous or known.  That is not a dig at Jenna.  Then I think he probably eventually realized that he was better off dating a Jenna, who would make her world revolve around him and give him the attention and admiration he wants, without eclipsing his fame.  Anybody more famous wouldn't have time to coddle his ego like he needs.

I am always interested to see how the pro lines fall when there are big events and such.  Like how just about everyone attended Emma & Sasha's wedding, with the exception of the Chmerkovskiy crew that were on tour.  Not that I'm sure they would have attended if they hadn't been.  They probably had the biggest turn out of pros/celebs of any of the recent pro weddings but I realize sometimes the weddings have fallen during tours so not everyone is available to attend.

[vdw84]

5 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

Even Emma and Sasha, who I think are the most genuine of all the current DWTS relationships had their own breakup for awhile, where they continued living together but she seemed to have her sights set on Val. When that didn't go anywhere, she went back to Sasha. At least she didn't have to unpack.

I have to say I was bit afraid of emma and sasha relationship during season 24 because it seemed like Emma had a serious attraction to her partner and I dont think it was a puton either. I mean some of the ways she was interacting with him was inappropriate and im not talking about onscreen but offscreen as well if u followed her instastories. Rashad was fine, so I get it but she was engaged and  her fiance was right there and she didnt care. I find it interesting that sasha never followed Rashad the whole season and even on tour but he has followed emma other partners.

[truthaboutluv]

3 hours ago, spanana said:

In his book (I didn't read it but of course fans post relevant pages), Val claims that the showmance was fake but Janel fell in love with him for real and he should have clued her in.  Which, you think?  I didn't care for her, but either you are lying or you used her and were aware that you were using her, and did it anyway.

No words really. And yeah this is not surprising considering how quickly things imploded with those two as soon as the season was over and Janel didn't hide how pressed and bitter she was towards him. 

[Toonces464]

6 hours ago, spanana said:

My theory on Val has always been that Val wanted to keep his options open in case somebody "better" came along.  And by better I just mean more famous or known.  That is not a dig at Jenna.  Then I think he probably eventually realized that he was better off dating a Jenna, who would make her world revolve around him and give him the attention and admiration he wants, without eclipsing his fame.  Anybody more famous wouldn't have time to coddle his ego like he needs.

Funny, that's always been my theory on Maks as far as Peta was concerned, only he settled when he was ready for a kid and realized he had no other quick easy options.

3 hours ago, vdw84 said:

I have to say I was bit afraid of emma and sasha relationship during season 24 because it seemed like Emma had a serious attraction to her partner and I dont think it was a puton either. I mean some of the ways she was interacting with him was inappropriate and im not talking about onscreen but offscreen as well if u followed her instastories. Rashad was fine, so I get it but she was engaged and  her fiance was right there and she didnt care. I find it interesting that sasha never followed Rashad the whole season and even on tour but he has followed emma other partners.

Oh man, if I were Emma I would've been all over that, Sasha or no Sasha! LOL But I also noticed that Sasha has never followed Rashad, even when they were on tour together, while he followed the Property Brother the day partners were announced.

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

No words really. And yeah this is not surprising considering how quickly things imploded with those two as soon as the season was over and Janel didn't hide how pressed and bitter she was towards him. 

The partnership of Val's I've always been curious about is Rumer Willis. I know Maks and Val's partners always become fam, at least for awhile, but Rumer seemed to get much more involved with the family than most, and her attachment seemed to be more to everyone else than Val. I remember she used to hang out with Maks and Peta all the time, right after they got back together, and Val was never with them. Peta even asked her to be in her wedding the night they got engaged. Then she disappeared for a long time but suddenly there she was in the wedding. And we haven't seen any sign of her since.

[kitcloudkicker]

Anyone have pre-season predictions? For me this show is only fun to follow along with if I get 'em right ;) I haven't decided if this quick format is going to make it super predictable or unpredictable. But here's what I think: 

Eliminated Week 1: 

Tanya Harding
Poor Sasha is trying his best on social media, but I think there's still enough anger towards her (and she's not exactly an approachable personality) that this isn't going to fly. 

Jamie Anderson
Has been doing more traveling than dancing ever since the GMA announcement, and posted an instagram YESTERDAY that was like, "welp, better start dance practice, any team name suggestions?" Others have been at it for weeks, I can't see this being good. She's also probably going to blend in with the other blonde, similarly aged contestant, and I think Jennie Finch is going to stand out more between the two of them. 

 

Eliminated Week 2: 

Arike Ogunbawale

She's the "Alek Skarlatos" of this group in being the least ready for the spotlight (and not being fully allowed to step into it by her NCAA restrictions.) I don't have a lot of faith (barely any) in Gleb to guide her as well as Lindsey did Alek, get creative to bring out and show off her personality. She could easily go week one as well but I'm hopeful that the novelty of being the first NCAA participant, and ND being in the time zone to be able to watch it live and rally campus votes might get her through week 1. Could also be my own wishful thinking because I do have some school pride, I like her, and I want to see her do well. (Dammit Gleb)  

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Legend, very nice, seems to be trying hard, but lets face it, gonna be awkward. That said, he might surprise me an Tommy Chong his way another week. 

 

Eliminated Week 3: 

Jennie Finch

Watched a little bit of her with Keo on Instagram and they seem to get on well, she's trying hard, and can move. 2nd best of the women's side. But seems pretty chill, in a way that I think might not take her farther than this. 

Johnny Damon

Putting him here out of fanbase, really. He seems fine, has the likable family man thing people will like, I don't think he's going to be a great dancer, but I trust Emma to work around that and show him off. 

 

Final Four (In no particular order) 

Mirai Nagasu

Adam Rippon

Chris Mazder

Josh Norman

Mirai and Adam are going to be the best dancers. I don't think Mirai is going to win, she seems to have gotten herself cursed with the "I don't like her attitude" reaction that plagues female contestants like Nastia or Tamar, that seems to be the kiss of death on this show. If I had to put money on it, I'd probably guess Adam for the win, but I don't think he has it in the bag. Chris and Josh are my wildcards. They are both VERY charming on social media, have great chemistry so far with their partners, seem to be putting in the work. Chris is giving me serious James Hinchcliffe charming vibes and Josh seems like a big teddy bear. I'm on the record that I love Adam, but I could see either of them giving him a run for his money. 

 

Some overall thoughts

It's interesting to me in doing this how much stronger the 5 female pros seem than the 5 male ones. I'm so much more interested in their partnerships, and believe that they'll be able to turn around a challenging partner much more than guys could. Alan is sort of the only one I'm interested in seeing develop a partnership at the moment. Curious how the producers see it - it feels like they need some new blood to even it out. (Why. Not. Hire. Paul. K. He seems like he'd be great.)

[Morrigan]

I really love your post, kitcloudkicker. I've been avoiding DWTS for years because of their "pet pro" syndrome with the men - maybe that's why the male lineup seems flat. They've spent the entire run of the show making stars out of several men and focusing almost everything on them and their partners. It's a breath of fresh air to me to be free of them, for once (and probably the only time it'll ever be true...)  Maybe I'm wrong to feel that way but I've always had a weakness for underdogs and DWTS has made underdogs out of so so many other pros and their partners that it broke my heart, repeatedly, and I just gave up in 2013...  Anyway, it's funny you saying that because I was just thinking the other day that the women are sorta meh - Jenna with their star contestant?? Ugh. (Though I don't follow sports other than figure skating so maybe Adam's not the star... he is to me :)

I can't begin to predict how their personalities will come over (other than Adam) but I just read that Mirai said that Tonya Harding didn't know who she was!! And that Tonya told her she still had her axels. Looking at her, I find that extremely hard to believe. I really REALLY dislike that person, especially after she made an interview all about her OWN suffering in the wake of the "incident" (and not a mention of poor Nancy.) And she looks awful, like she hasn't stayed fit at ALL. But then, Mirai didn't have to say that Tonya didn't know who she was... this juror is out on her too but so far, I've really liked her a lot in her Instagram stories and such. I hope Mirai and Adam are in the final and one of them wins -- but that's about all I can say because I haven't even "met" the others.

I do feel sorry for Arike because Gleb looks checked out. I wish she had Keo - he's kinder - or back in the day, Tony would have been sweet. Come on Gleb, prove me wrong, and put your heart in it even without a ringer, 'kay? I have a feeling he's on thin ice with his attitude. Okay dude, you look great but you don't have much going on in the personality department and you're not a "star pro" so check your ego!

Edited April 27, 2018 by Morrigan

[boyznkatz]

Poor Artem and Keo seem to be turning into the new Tristan and Tony of dwts. Artem's partner seems very smug, and if she doesn't practice then Len is going to slam her with a bad score. I think Keo might go a little further this time, but who knows. The only ones I really care about are Adam and Mirai, but then again, I'm a skating fan. As a skating fan, I also despise Tonya. How conveniently she forget that the FBI found notes in her handwriting with details about Nancy's practice schedule. She should have been smart and just disappeared for good.

[Toonces464]

I don't like Jenna and I'm already sick of her and Adam and all the focus on them. She may be a good dancer (though I've never seen it because she's always too busy mugging for the camera) but I can't help but feel she was given such a ringer to pacify Val for her not being allowed to tour with them and to ensure he comes back next season. 

I agree the male pro lineup is very weak but I don't think the female lineup is much better. I like all the other girls well enough but if we're being honest, this isn't Cheryl and Karina and Anna and Edyta we're talking about here. That why I disagree completely that the show needs new blood. They keep trying it and I'm more bored with each new person they bring in. As I've said in other posts, I think the opposite, that they need to make sure they have at least one or two of the old pros each season if they want to hang onto the non-teen audience.

[kitcloudkicker]

I get why people want to see their favorites but I really think that 26 seasons in, they’ve got to get their audience to care about some new pros or they are really and truly dead in the water. Whether that’s these pros they have or some new ones they pull from somewhere else.

For me the old pros turning up (even the ones I really like!) are starting to feel like that kid in high school that went away to college but won’t stop turning up for the homecoming game. Maks and Derek for sure need to stay away. Mark’s last season felt a bit like a swan song, and Val and Cheryl are getting there. Cheryl’s a little better because she takes seasons off, but I’d still almost rather see her mentoring other pros or something rather than running through the same motions again. (Confession, I’ve always hated Karina and find her uninspiring to watch ? I’ll own up to the fact she’s the most decorated of the pros and probably technically the best but it’s always done nothing for me.)

Jenna hasn’t always been my favorite but I kinda want to see what she does - it’s at least some novelty. I think Lindsay, Emma, and Sharna have developed into some solid partners who know how to work the show, and Witney has had some hit or miss seasons but when she’s on I think she’s fun to watch. None of them have the star power the old crew had at their height but they’ve developed into a pretty solid crew.

On the guys side, Alan’s just so enthusiastic about being there that it’s catching, and again, he’s got the novelty/drive to push himself thing that I’m interested in watching. Sasha’s a fine sidekick but not inspiring as a leading man. I want to like Artem because I like how he dances and seems like a solid enough guy, but he’s just so stoic that unless his partners have outsized levels of personality (Patty LaBelle) they just sort of fizzle out. Keo’s gotten better, but still doesn’t catch me, and I still don’t know why they keep Gleb around. 

So yeah, I think they need to figure out this crop of pros for sure, but I think it can’t be just bringing old ones back, because that feels stale to me too. Maybe they can bring them back in some sort of creative way? (Trios with classic pros, mentor/guest choreography week?)