S02.E10: The New Queen Bee Bikini

[Surrealist]

I have been "team Julie" for the current fight with Annabelle, but I don't believe a word of the "save Mapperton" storyline.  And CF needs to spend some time brushing up on her Emily Post before lecturing anyone else on their bad manners!

 

Me neither. I think that Julie felt as if she, too, needed a quest storyline. Her life seems pretty average otherwise. Title, notwithstanding.  ;-)

[Frost]

 

Too be fair, while being sympathetic to the plight of sex workers, I probably would not hire a bunch of hookers as set dressing for a party.

Hiring the 'rent boys' for the party certainly was not what I was suggesting.   Caroline treated the idea like a vulgar joke.  They were talking about fellow human beings.  I just thought the entire exchange veered into disgusting territory. 

 

The constant 'so and so told me that you said' conversations drove me crazy.  I'm not an Annabelle fan but why on earth would any of these women want to open up and be vulnerable with each other?  If the cameras weren't enough, they have ample evidence that everyone is busy taking notes so that they can scurry off and talk about you the minute your back is turned.

[candall]

The most boring episode of all, for what my Directv Guide calls the

"Series, Season Finale."

 

I think it's too bad the focus was on Annabelle.  There's definitely grist for the mill there--for example, hearing her say how excruciating it was to be "open" in Denmark, when my main impression is Annabelle sitting in the restaurant and pointing out everyone's character flaws.  Oh, right, and some residual McQueen hysteria.

 

But I would have preferred to see the hammer drop on Caroline S. for the grand finale.  The end of her vanity project, "Gift Bank," was the biggest story this season.  Her attitude and behavior were absolutely appalling, before, during and after.  Those ridiculous, unnecessary, elaborate offices.  Dropping by for updates about how nothing was going to arrive on time.  Her dismay at being trapped in the manse with her children, buffered by only a handful of nannies, servants and caregivers.  Life sucks:  Par-tay, shall we, darling?

 

I think some of those Gift Bank employees got two weeks notice and are probably more worried about feeding their kids than getting stuck with them in close proximity.

 

Caroline's such an entitled Marie Antoinette "let them eat cake"-type bitch.  I would have enjoyed seeing her get a bit of the guillotine treatment.

[whydoievencare]

My take on the issue between Annabelle and Julie is that Julie wasn't at all supportive to Annabelle while they were in Denmark.  Julie wasn't "frantically busy" with her four children, her husband who is away, Mapperton, her yoga business - while they were visiting Denmark.  She was irritated with Annabelle right from the start of the trip when Annabelle was late-ish arriving at the airport.  She basically ignored her the whole time - and really, is this the type of support one would expect from a good friend?  

[izabella]

Maybe Julie wanted a vacation away from her responsibilities, and wanted to have some fun herself instead of being Annabelle's personal caretaker on this trip.  Maybe Julie didn't have any energy left for Annabelle's dramas during this "difficult time" Annabelle always seems to be having.

 

Annabelle wants Julie to be what what Caroline S has - her own personal Luke to rub her ass.  Caroline S pays Luke, so maybe Annabelle should start paying "friends" to cater to her all the time.

 

Julie wasn't "frantically busy" with her four children, her husband who is away, Mapperton, her yoga business - while they were visiting Denmark.

 

As I recall, Julie only brought that up when Annabelle dismissed Julie's texts as a defense for why she texts instead of visiting or calling.  Her time is far more limited than Annabelle, who has the luxury of spending 5 years crying over Mr. McQueen and having other "difficult times" and navel gazing.

 

The smug way Annabelle was smirking while Julie was having her meltdown at Caroline F's lunch should make Julie realize Annabelle only cares about Annabelle and is HAPPY to make Julie grovel. 

Edited November 11, 2015 by izabella

[whydoievencare]

I don't imagine Julie would have had to spend her whole vacation attending to Annabelle - but to not acknowledge that Annabelle was having some difficulty as well as talking about her behind her back (or not as the case may be) was unkind.  I don't see it as Annabelle wanting Julie to be her Luke. I grant that Julie has been a good friend to Annabelle in the past, but Annabelle was also a good friend to Julie.  Julie's histrionics at Caroline F's lunch seemed inappropriate but then she's such a Highly Sensitive Person - but apparently she's the only one allowed to be sensitive  (you can tell I'm not a Julie fan at all).

[hoodooznoodooz]

Wow. CS is NOT into her daughter and sons. That is how she interacts with them when the cameras are aimed at her. How does she interact with them when no one is around?

[Surrealist]

As someone who is single and doesn't have children, I understand why Annabelle feels a bit left out. She's surrounded by women who are married and have kids. Well, CF is a divorcee, but she has kids. Annabelle needs to be around others her age who share a similar lifestyle. When friends are married or have children, it's difficult to find time to spend with them. That's just a reality based off their lifestyles.

 

Obviously the ladies decided to do this show because they have some sort of project or business to promote. I'm guessing that's why Annabelle agreed to do the show: to promote her children's books and the book she's writing about Alexander McQueen. Having said that Annabelle doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the cast. She actually grew on me this season for that very reason. I'm not surprised that she isn't returning because she really doesn't have to anyway. She's promoted what she needed to promote and more people know who she is and what she's doing. I'm kind of surprised that she's friends with any of the other ladies, to be honest. They don't seem to be her speed.

[whydoievencare]

I have always wondered about Julie's children.  She and Luke were married in 2004, the two youngest children born in 2004 and 2006 but wasn't sure if the two eldest children were hers or theirs.  http://www.thepeerage.com/p14295.htm  Anyone know anything more?

[biakbiak]

The two eldest are hers, it was mentioned in an article about her husband's health issues.

[TheFinalRose]

Wow.  That article paints a very dreary picture of what Julie's life must have been like for the past few years. I feel sorry for her, as she's definitely experienced the "worse" part of the "for better or worse" promise she made when she got married.  It sounds as if her husband is just not able to be part of the family in any way that she can depend on him.  She obviously went on the show for the money.  

 

Back to last night's show, I'm sorry this season is over. I hope it comes back next year. The most interesting part of last night's episode to me was seeing Juliet in her fashion stylist role for the two minutes they showed that. And that they filmed inside Liberty of London.  Any scene with the smirking Marissa bugs me.  I love seeing Caroline Stanbury's home life and how pampered her life is. Here is a woman who obviously feels no pangs of guilt about whether or not she is spending enough time with her children.  It's so different from the helicopter, Mommy of the Year parenting that goes on with a lot of women.  Her husband seems so normal.  

 

 

 

 

[UsernameFatigue]

Wow, Annabelle really is in her own little world. What a self absorbed woman. And what was with the outfit for the party with her butt cheeks hanging out? And the unlit cigarette she was waving around in her hand as she was talking to Julie at the party? Strange. If the show comes back next year without Annabelle I will be perfectly happy. I assume she will be busy writing her autobiography titled Narcissistic Me.

[Fl Mom]

Wow! So much hating on Annabelle.

I guess now that Caroline S. no longer has 40 employees to boss around she has made herself casting director and tells Annabelle how to behave if she wants to stay on the show - which she doesn't apparently. Good for her (bad for me - Annabelle's my favorite - no hate please), So being a self satisfied bitch is in, having emotions is out? Hmm, didn't Jules spend the first half of the season sobbing? Oh wait, she found her balls so she's in now. 

I will miss Annabelle but I totally get why she wouldn't want to be around these women anymore.

She was my favorite too until the last two episodes.  She turned into a maudlin mess!

[ScoobieDoobs]

Yeah, I know Stanbury was on WWHL, but that's not necessarily an indication this show is coming back.  Look, I hope it does cuz I basically liked it, but the ratings really sucked.  This ep got 699 thou viewers, which is horrible & Bravo rarely (if ever) renews shows with ratings this low.  Here are the ratings for the season & man, they mostly sucked badly.

 

http://bravowhore.com/post/128796096629/ladiesoflondons02

 

My rec would be to make some changes & bring it back in the summer.  I say boot off Sophie & Fleming (I really can't stand her phoniness anymore) and cast some other Brits.  They can keep all the Americans & Stanbury.

 

Anyone see that Luke showed up with Stanbury on WWHL?  You know, I hadn't even realized what a good-looking man he is.  I was trying figure out why I hadn't noticed that before.  Maybe cuz his part here is to be Stanbury's gay slave -- a fact which I find utterly offensive & reprehensible on her part (and the producers of this show), whether Luke has willingly put himself up for this or not.  And Luke has also shown himself to have an extremely nasty/cruel sense of humor (similar to Stanbury's sense of humor), laughing at others, making fun of others or just having a laugh at others' expense.  Not nice.  He could be the most incredible-looking man in the world, but to me a cruel sense of humor renders him homely as can be.

[candall]

Anyone see that Luke showed up with Stanbury on WWHL?  You know, I hadn't even realized what a good-looking man he is.  I was trying figure out why I hadn't noticed that before.  Maybe cuz his part here is to be Stanbury's gay slave -- a fact which I find utterly offensive & reprehensible on her part (and the producers of this show), whether Luke has willingly put himself up for this or not.

There's no question that Luke is Caroline's employee, and the gig has some benefits many would consider enviable.

 

I thought Luke-watch was an interesting distraction from the vapid drivel--particularly the "Where's Waldo?" aspect of when he was included and when he wasn't.  The very first party Caroline gave, I was surprised to see her hairdresser all tuxxed up and enjoying cocktails with the other guests.  I thought, my, that's strangely egalitarian for Madame S. 

 

At the Danish castle, I was dying to see Luke's assigned room.  Are there some second-tier guestrooms between servants' quarters and the canopy suites with the private chapels?  Was Luke in a garret up under the eaves?  He wasn't invited to the restaurant or fur-shopping, but he was dressed and seated with all the other guests at the formal dinner--although Caroline didn't hesitate to snap his leash when he made a comment she considered snippy.

 

Sometimes Luke was shown giving one or two of the other ladies a buff, but was that just according to the whims of Caroline's largess at the moment?  Seems very unlikely she'd be willing to divide Luke's attention to her own needs by a factor of six.  I wonder if the other women had the option of paying Luke to do their own hair/makeup, once he finished Caroline?

 

My favorite Luke moment was when he casually pointed out that Caroline had the identical character flaw she was criticizing in one of the other ladies.  She shot him a death glare and he backpedaled like crazy.  Ha, forgot your place for a moment, my man.

 

I'd pounce on a tell-all from Luke, when he inevitably falls out of Caroline's favor.  But I suppose spilling the juicy details would not be advisable if he wanted to continue as a concierge hairdresser for someone else.

Edited November 12, 2015 by candall

[hoodooznoodooz]

So this article describes the Montagus as "asset-rich but relatively cash-poor" http://www.dbrecoveryresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Luke-Montagu-Times-Magazine-18-Jul-2015.pdf

The bottom paragraph on page 4 makes Mapperson sound rundown ("shabby chic"). Explains her stress.

Thank you for posting this link. Wow. What a nightmare. Julie is a much better person than I. I think I would've jumped ship. Now I am even more impressed that Julie visited Annabelle as often as she did when A was convalescing.

I am relieved that the Church of Scientology and/or Tom Cruise didn't pounce on Luke regarding the antidepressants.

Do we know anything about the father of Julie's eldest children?

[candall]

So this article describes the Montagus as "asset-rich but relatively cash-poor" http://www.dbrecoveryresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Luke-Montagu-Times-Magazine-18-Jul-2015.pdf

The bottom paragraph on page 4 makes Mapperson sound rundown ("shabby chic"). Explains her stress.

YEOW.  Lots more behind Julie's stress than Mapperson!  She's been holding the entire Montagu family world together.

 

I don't usually click on the links, but this was a real eye-opener.  Thanks for posting.  My respect for Julie has shot up about 10,000%.

[Kiss my mutt]

Wow, Annabelle really is in her own little world. What a self absorbed woman. And what was with the outfit for the party with her butt cheeks hanging out? And the unlit cigarette she was waving around in her hand as she was talking to Julie at the party? Strange. If the show comes back next year without Annabelle I will be perfectly happy. I assume she will be busy writing her autobiography titled Narcissistic Me.

Or Narcissistic Me and Alex McQueen.

Although I liked Annabelle more this season I do find her overall dreary and petulant.

Caroline's speech at her party was so tacky. That woman is insufferable. I think she hates her kids because they don't look like her.

Marissa's smirkiness got on my last nerve. She seemed so much more composed and elegant last season.

I don't know what to hope for in terms of a new season. I really don't like any of these broads except for Jules.

[autumnh]

Annabelle is a taker...not a giver. We ALL have gone through things....yet most of us do not need our hands to be held....because well, we have to work and raise families and run households with NO help...except for our husbands or the amazing ones who go it alone.

 

Boo effin' hoo Annabelle.

[ScoobieDoobs]

YEOW.  Lots more behind Julie's stress than Mapperson!  She's been holding the entire Montagu family world together.

 

I don't usually click on the links, but this was a real eye-opener.  Thanks for posting.  My respect for Julie has shot up about 10,000%.

 

Her life is clearly very difficult.  The prob is for us viewers.  Watching her break down in just about every ep is getting tired & old.  But she should at least garner the sympathy of the obviously stone-hearted Stanbury to get her gay chained-up slave, to take a moment or 2 away from primping her hair, to color Julie's hair so she doesn't look like a canary.

 

Man, Stanbury & those death glares she gives Luke, the gay chained-up slave-boy.  Wowza, I thought I saw laser beams coming outa her eyes, like something you'd see in Star Trek..

[TheFinalRose]

I wish we knew the skinny on Julie's first marriage, considering she took her kids to London. Maybe she was never married. While surfing the net I did see that she was captain of her cheerleading team, a model, and the stand-in for Cameron Diaz in My Best Friend's Wedding.  So she has always been attention-seeking, I guess. Seems like Hollywood and modeling would be very tough worlds for such a hypersensitive person.  

[RCharter]

I think I have a different POV from everyone else.  I totally get Annabelle's POV and I think she is the most genuine of the women on the show.

 

Julie is again the victim, always the victim, always the martyr.  Annabelle's point was that Julie failed to show any real measure of concern for her situation when she was right there in front of her face and crying.  Not to mention that the entire trip she knew something was wrong with Annabelle and instead of taking her aside to talk about it, she blithely went on her way and never even asked a question, and even went as far as to talk smack about her to the Caroline's.  Both of whom would throw Julie away in a heartbeat, and one of them who made her cry.

 

And than, instead of having a real adult conversation with Annabelle, Julie texted her some long and involved text message.  I get that Julie has 4 kids, teaches yoga, and is the only one who can save Mapperton with those balls -- but she could have made time to make a phone call.  She could have made time to talk to Annabelle on the plane ride back.  She could have picked up a phone instead of sending a text message.  Annabelle is her one true friend, the one who has stood up for Julie and took her under her wing.  She rates a little more than a text message, even if you have to take a little time off after JUB and yoga.  She has had enough time for Annabelle when it involved going to a swanky gallery opening, but suddenly she is just too busy?

 

Everyone else showed sympathy when Annabelle was having her meltdown, Julie just sat there staring off into space.  And the minute that Annabelle wanted to talk to Julie about it, Julie dissolved into tears....right on cue, to get out of having to take any responsibility.  Suddenly Julie is a victim, because again, she is just so weak.  But I noticed that the minute Caroline F. spoke up and Julie wasn't being questioned, all of her tears were dropped in an instant.  Julie is just as manipulative as any of the other women, but she hides it behind this mask of being dumb and weak and overly sensitive.

 

And Caroline S was basically threatening her "act more jovial or be off the show."  But I would rather someone be genuine, and it annoys me that anyone would need to kiss Caroline S's pope ring in order to be on the show.  Caroline S. has managed to maneuver it so that anyone who goes up against her is booted off the show.  Caprice and Noelle are gone, and now she is working to get rid of Annabelle for having the gall to stand up to her.  It's annoying, they should all be on an equal playing field IMO.

Edited November 12, 2015 by RCharter

[RCharter]

One dead McQueen is the equivalent of 3.746 actual children. She just doesn't understand why Julie is so frazzled. Julie only has 4 children to raise. Annabelle has 1 dead McQueen to deal with and you never see her being a terrible friend or breaking out into tears.

Annabelle is full of bullshit. She both described how she retreats into herself when she's upset rather than seek out others and bitch about how Julie should have sought out Annabelle to comfort her. Which is it drama McQueen?

Caroline Fleming is a shit stirrer.

 

Julie knew something was wrong with her friend.  She mentioned it on camera over and over.  She had the time to talk  to everyone else about it except Annabelle.

 

I know I do the same thing, if I'm having a problem I'll generally keep it to myself and go quiet because I don't want to be a burden to others.  I'm lucky enough to have friends that are good enough to know that when I retreat they check in with me to make sure I'm okay.  In exchange I try to bring my best qualities to the friendship because I realize my friends are good.

 

If you think your friend may be hurting and you're in the same city as them, on the same plane as them for days how can you not even spare a moment for a conversation?  That seems so very cold to me.  Annabelle has a hard time opening up, and when she finally did, everyone else was comforting, except Julie.  And Julie didn't have any children around, or any balls, or any yoga and there was no Mapperton.  The only thing Julie did when she saw that Annabelle was having a hard time was to throw her under the bus with the Caroline's.

 

I genuinely felt deep compassion for Julie as she broke down and was snorting/slobbering/stammering into pitiful tears in front of that smug waste-of-space Annabelle; that poor woman has to stay as strong as possible while caring single-handedly for a yoga business, 4 young children, and a crumbling British estate, all while filming a reality show and trying to make yet another business plan work.

Ironically enough, it just showed how shitty of a friend Annabelle actually is that she couldn't chill and try to understand how insanely busy/stressed Julie's life is and that texts are often her greatest means of reaching out.

But Annabelle obviously thinks texts aren't good enough for her, which only highlighted how much of a bitter, out-of-touch and self-absorbed old cow she really is. Not to mention how self-absorbed she truly is---honestly, I wish my biggest problem in life was sitting around for a week or so((because jolly good, I'm so rich that I don't have to work!)) in self-imposed "mourning" of my supposed bestie/former party buddy who offed himself FIVE YEARS AGO and that my current supposed bestie doesn't have the time to sit around and hug/coddle/listen to my washed-up partygirl self while I weep and drone on and on about my dead reflected-glory days, erhm, I mean, my dead former BFF.

 

I think those tears were a total put on.  Julie stopped them as soon as she was out of the hot seat.

 

We all get that Julie is busy, but in the time it took her to write that involved text, she could have picked up the phone and said it.  Julie has a busy life, but I can't believe that she doesn't have 15 minutes for a phone conversation when it had to take 20 minutes to type out that wall of text.  Julie was able to make time for Caroline F's lunch, but she couldn't find 15 minutes between yoga to have a conversation?  Julie was able to make time for lunch with Annabelle when she wanted to commiserate about how terrible Caroline S is, but she didn't have time to pick up the phone?

 

I understand why people don't get Annabelle's feelings of loss over McQueen five years later -- but that doesn't mean the feelings aren't real.  Some people do feel things more deeply than others, and I think her feelings were brought to the forefront because someone was writing a nasty tell all book.   I think Annabelle has been brought up to have that stiff upper lip so even if she is hurting she generally isn't going to go out of her way to cry about it the way Julie will.  If her friends death cuts her to the core even five years later, maybe its because she doesn't let a lot of people into her life.  And perhaps thats why Julie's lack of concern and willingness to throw her under the bus hurt her even more.  B

Annabelle doesn't have her own tv?  Lol.

 

It was nice of Caroline to do that with the cameras present, but it seems Julie was the only one who visited Annabelle regularly during her recovery period...when the cameras were not there. 

 

I have yet to hear what, specifically, Annabelle has done to be a friend of Julie's.  I kept hearing how Annabelle had taken Julie "under her wing" because she once knew her husband years ago, but have no idea what Annabelle's friendship with Julie was about other than what Julie did for her.

Annabelle was the first one to invite Julie to anything on her own.  Annabelle was the first one to go after Juliet when she had that meltdown on NYE (and I think that sparked Caroline S's ire, because if Annabelle hadn't gone after her, I don't think anyone would have and than Caroline S wouldn't have needed to apologize).  Annabelle was the only one to stick up for Julie the next day when Caroline "retracted" her apology, even to the point of taking on the all powerful Caroline S.  Annabelle was the only one to tell Julie that she can and should stick up for herself with Caroline (which Julie hasn't yet done and Caroline has zero respect for her).

 

No one has gone more out of their way to include Julie and advocate for Julie more than Annabelle.  Annabelle has stuck her neck out for Julie, and from where I sit Julie was a good friend until she had better options and then she threw Annabelle under the bus.

[DeeplyShallow]

I'm torn, honestly. I get Julie's position and while, yes, she could have taken the time to pick up the phone rather than text, it really is faster to send a text because having a phone conversation can take forever. When you're tired, busy, and stressed the last thing you want to do is talk on the phone. Then again, if she knew her friend was hurting, she should've made more of an effort. But, truly- Annabelle acts like McQueen was her husband and she's a grieving widow. Yes, I sound mean and callous, but woman- go to therapy!

[RCharter]

I'm torn, honestly. I get Julie's position and while, yes, she could have taken the time to pick up the phone rather than text, it really is faster to send a text because having a phone conversation can take forever. When you're tired, busy, and stressed the last thing you want to do is talk on the phone. Then again, if she knew her friend was hurting, she should've made more of an effort. But, truly- Annabelle acts like McQueen was her husband and she's a grieving widow. Yes, I sound mean and callous, but woman- go to therapy!

I get it, I do.  My sister is about 20x busier than I am and so I know it takes a lot for her to call.  But I know that she will do it.  She will sometimes start the conversation with "I only have about 10 minutes because I just dropped off kid #2 for music lessons," or "I only have 15 minutes because I'm driving kid #1 to something but I wanted to check in" but she will still call if she feels like something is off. 

 

And I know that sometimes things bother me that would never bother anyone else.  It doesn't mean that my feelings aren't real, it just means I'm a weirdo.  I don't think it sounds mean and callous to say that Annabelle goes a little overboard with McQueen, but there are a ton of things that would bother other people that don't bother me and there are about 10-15 really weird things that bother me deeply that would never bother anyone else.  Maybe that's why I'm a little more sympathetic, but I can totally understand why people think she is going overboard.

[Surrealist]

One issue I have with Annabelle is that I've read up on McQueen and I don't think I've seen anyone reference he and Annabelle as best friends. My impression was that a bunch of them used to be party animals, drank a ton, and did coke.

I'm not saying that Annabelle is overstating her relationship to Alexander, but she does talk about him like a grieving widow, which is kind of odd to me.

On the other hand, I lost a close friend, although mine died in a motorcycle accident. Even now, every once in a while, he'll be on my mind. However, I'm not still grieving over him. Then again, he died in 2000. So maybe with time, Annabelle will move forward.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Surrealist

[RCharter]

One issue I have with Annabelle is that I've read up on McQueen and I don't think I've seen anyone reference he and Annabelle as best friends. My impression was that a bunch of them used to be party animals, drank a ton, and did coke.

I'm not saying that Annabelle is overstating her relationship to Alexander, but she does talk about him like a grieving widow, which is kind of odd to me.

On the other hand, I lost a close friend, although mine died in a motorcycle accident. Even now, every once in a while, he'll be on my mind. However, I'm not still grieving over him. Then again, he died in 2000. So maybe with time, Annabelle will move forward.

Hard to say -- I know that NC seemed to think they were pretty close, but maybe she was just putting on for the cameras.  And maybe it was a friendship that Annabelle felt more than MacQueen.  That would make her feelings illogical, but it doesn't mean that they aren't very real for her.  I get the feeling that she doesn't let a lot of people in, which is why I think the situation with Julie hurts her so much.  I think when she looks back she will be mortified to see that she actually cried at the lunch for CF.  But, if she doesn't have a ton of friends it may be part of the reason why MacQ's death has affected her so much.

 

 I hope she is able to move forward the way you have....but I would hope that for any human being.  She probably needs therapy, maybe she can get the number for CF's therapist...that lady seemed really patient.

[Surrealist]

To Annabelle's credit, she did defend Julie to Caroline S. Annabelle grew on me this season.

I'm not necessarily sure what to think of any of them. I can only discuss what I see of them on the show. It'd be interesting to see if, offscreen, there are any close and genuine friendships between these women. The two Carolines notwithstanding.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Surrealist

[TheFinalRose]

Julie should have taken Annabelle aside sometime during their trip to Denmark to have a  conversation about Annabelle's feelings/mood. It seemed really obvious to me that Julie was not expressing concern for Annabelle, at all. What's confounding is that there seemed as if there would be plenty of time during the trip, but maybe Julie was more distracted by the Marissa/Caroline Fleming dust up to even notice what was going on with Annabelle.  I do see Annabelle's point; the long text message was too little too late.

 

 

[RCharter]

To Annabelle's credit, she did defend Julie to Caroline S. Annabelle grew on me this season.

I'm not necessarily sure what to think of any of them. I can only discuss what I see of them on the show. It'd be interesting to see if, offscreen, there are any close and genuine friendships between these women. The two Carolines notwithstanding.

I give Annabelle a lot of credit for that, because as far as I can tell, its been established that Caroline S. is the queen bee and no one dare go up against her.

 

Caprice and Noelle got shown the door last year after fighting with Caroline S.  And, never forget that odd threat that she made to Juliet about "wiping the floor with her" when Juliet made the mistake of asking for an apology.  Juliet fell back fast.

 

No one takes on Caroline S, and the only one that has even come close is the one person who is even more famous and can play the queen bee/mean girl game....Caroline F.

 

Annabelle didn't have to stick her neck out for crybaby Julie, and her life would have probably been easier if she hadn't.

 

I would be interested to know about the real friendships too.  I tend to believe that Julie/Annabelle was real, because Annabelle doesn't seem particularly fake to me....she seems reserved, but not fake per se.

 

And maybe Annabelle/Caroline S was real too, because according to Caroline S. she is the one that suggested Annabelle for the show....

 

 

Julie should have taken Annabelle aside sometime during their trip to Denmark to have a  conversation about Annabelle's feelings/mood. It seemed really obvious to me that Julie was not expressing concern for Annabelle, at all. What's confounding is that there seemed as if there would be plenty of time during the trip, but maybe Julie was more distracted by the Marissa/Caroline Fleming dust up to even notice what was going on with Annabelle.  I do see Annabelle's point; the long text message was too little too late.

I agree 100%

 

I just think Julie saw the chance to get in with the real popular girls and decided she should ditch her other friend.  And it stinks because I don't think either Caroline F or Caroline S really respects Julie and would likely happily throw her to the wolves, but would take Annabelle back with open arms.

[RCharter]

Annabelle is an adult who isn't afraid to speak her mind. She should've been explicit about wanting support and attention from Julie. They were all in a new country and being guests for a difficult host, so they were all distracted. Instead, she chain smoked with a puss on her face. This sort of behavior is my pet peeve so maybe that's why I have little patience for her. To me, this sort of thing is right up there with vague Facebook posts and turning off one's cellphone for days and complaining about no one making contact.

I think growing up British you learn to have a stiff upper lip and not ask for help.  A friendship is a give and take, and given Julie's HSP, she should be extra tuned in to when there is a friend in need.  If I could see it through the TV, Julie should have been able to see it.  She was able to see it enough to talk shit about Annabelle with everyone else, so she knew that something was off, but instead of actually talking to her friend she took the opportunity to throw her to the wolves.

 

If you have a friend that requires you beg them for support, I think that could be a rough friendship.  I know it would be for me, because I generally don't like the idea of burdening people.

[Lady of nod]

My take on the issue between Annabelle and Julie is that Julie wasn't at all supportive to Annabelle while they were in Denmark.  Julie wasn't "frantically busy" with her four children, her husband who is away, Mapperton, her yoga business - while they were visiting Denmark.  She was irritated with Annabelle right from the start of the trip when Annabelle was late-ish arriving at the airport.  She basically ignored her the whole time - and really, is this the type of support one would expect from a good friend?

My take on the issue between Annabelle and Julie is that Julie wasn't at all supportive to Annabelle while they were in Denmark.  Julie wasn't "frantically busy" with her four children, her husband who is away, Mapperton, her yoga business - while they were visiting Denmark.  She was irritated with Annabelle right from the start of the trip when Annabelle was late-ish arriving at the airport.  She basically ignored her the whole time - and really, is this the type of support one would expect from a good friend?

[Lady of nod]

Sorry - new on this board and having trouble posting - not very savvy at this! Just wanted to say this is the point exactly. While in Denmark, Julie had no husband, mansion, kids or balls to worry about. She could have spared some time out of her weekend kissing up to Caroline to ask Annabelle what was wrong. That's what friends do. I realize that she is perpetually on the verge of a breakdown, but she seemed to be able to pull herself together enough to trash Annabelle on the bus. The woman is a hot mess, and I think it speaks well for Annabelle that she honored her word to look out for her.  Deflecting by pulling out her texts and dissolving into tears is ridiculous.       

 That being said, I still like this show and hope it comes back.

[Notmuchofacook]

These women. Maybe it's cultural, but what a bunch of snotty bitches. Caroline S dressed In her unicorn costume standing over Juliets husband was strange ...not provocative, just odd. Juliet overreacted, for sure. I think she should have laughed at Miss Priss trying to be a bit provocative. That would have really hurt. Annabelle being hurt about Julie's supposed indifference is just manipulative. These women are just foolish, of course no more than any of the housewives on Bravo. And yet I watch. I just want to repeat, that Caroline S is a snotty bitch. I would not give that woman two minutes of my time. I'm pretty sure she would return the favor.

[Sun-Bun]

No lie though, I missed watching them last night. I love the London scenery porn and have somehow gotten used to the loud, annoying "British" rockpop they blare over those scenes.

And I like all the ladies' homes, for the most part...Marissa has a particularly cute townhouse, and I like the funky elegance of Caroline F and Caroline S's homes, and there is a refined grandeur about Annabelle's more traditional home.

The ladies themselves? Eh, I don't particularly like any of them, but I dig seeing their random fashion choices and social gatherings, even if they bitch and snark and make stink-eye at each other through most of those. I like seeing them go shopping and go about their daily activities.

It's pure stupid escapism if you dig the London aesthetic/attitude in general, which I actually do.

Bravo's treatment of this show though reminds me a lot of their treatment of my other fave stupid escapist show on there, "Southern Charm"---granted, SC got better ratings and is definitely shooting it's 3rd season right now, but they didn't get a reunion and ended their recent season rather abruptly, with less episodes and with very little fanfare as well.

It's just funny how interesting little shows like these sorta get tossed aside to make fawning room for the other goofy shows like "Shahs of Sunset" or "Flipping Out" or whatever---the network definitely shows obvious favoritism to certain shows.

[RCharter]

So they aren't going to have a reunion for this show?  Thats a shame, because I think it would have been juicy and the fashion would have been absolute disaster (Juliet, Julie, Juliet, maybe Marissa) and fabulous (Annabelle, Caroline S. Caroline F)

[DeeplyShallow]

No lie though, I missed watching them last night. I love the London scenery porn and have somehow gotten used to the loud, annoying "British" rockpop they blare over those scenes.

And I like all the ladies' homes, for the most part...Marissa has a particularly cute townhouse, and I like the funky elegance of Caroline F and Caroline S's homes, and there is a refined grandeur about Annabelle's more traditional home.

The ladies themselves? Eh, I don't particularly like any of them, but I dig seeing their random fashion choices and social gatherings, even if they bitch and snark and make stink-eye at each other through most of those. I like seeing them go shopping and go about their daily activities.

It's pure stupid escapism if you dig the London aesthetic/attitude in general, which I actually do.

Bravo's treatment of this show though reminds me a lot of their treatment of my other fave stupid escapist show on there, "Southern Charm"---granted, SC got better ratings and is definitely shooting it's 3rd season right now, but they didn't get a reunion and ended their recent season rather abruptly, with less episodes and with very little fanfare as well.

It's just funny how interesting little shows like these sorta get tossed aside to make fawning room for the other goofy shows like "Shahs of Sunset" or "Flipping Out" or whatever---the network definitely shows obvious favoritism to certain shows.

I'm disappointed and a little surprised that there isn't a reunion.

I thought southern charm did have a reunion? It was in the WWHL clubhouse but it was definitely a reunion.

[RCharter]

The stiff upper lift thing seems to mean, don't say anything and then later be passive aggressive or just plain aggressive. At least, that's how I characterize Annabelle's behavior, lol.

I think it can manifest itself in passive aggressive behavior, but its more about just not showing your feelings in an obvious way. Right or wrong, its just not seen as particularly refined to let the entire room know your feelings, you keep it to yourself, and only share it with those close to you.   I don't know if you read Jane Austen, but the characters in her novels epitomized it to perfection.   Like last season when someone was horrified by Juliet yelling in the middle of the street because she was carrying on like a fishwife.  

 

And I think more people practice some form of the stiff upper lip.  I find it strange when I run into people who will tell anyone their business.  And there are certainly times I don't want to be burdened with peoples business and I'm sorry I asked them how they were doing because I didn't have time for the 2 hour dramatisation of their life.

 

And ultimately, I don't think a friend should have to beg another friend for their compassion and empathy.  Julie knew something was wrong with Annabelle, and never once took her aside in Denmark to ask about it.  She just decided to talk shit about her behind her back.  And when Annabelle brought up that she felt that the text message from Julie was impersonal, the first thing Julie did was turn on the waterworks to make herself a victim.  I noticed that those tears evaporated quickly once Julie wasn't being questioned anymore.  To me, that's passive aggressive in its own right, for Julie to try to turn it around with tears and make herself a victim.  And truth was, that the text message was impersonal.  Julie may be busy, but she managed to make the time to go to the swanky gallery opening Annabelle invited her to....but she couldn't make 15 minutes to call her and make a personal apology?  She couldn't invite her to lunch after a yoga class and apologize in person?  But she has time to make the fancy gallery opening?  

[OnceSane]

I'm disappointed and a little surprised that there isn't a reunion.

I thought southern charm did have a reunion? It was in the WWHL clubhouse but it was definitely a reunion.

Southern Charm had a reunion. Ladies of London does not.

[RCharter]

I honestly think there's something up with Annabelle that we didn't see on camera that to which Caroline S. was trying to allude.

I read Caroline S. as pretty much saying "whatever is going on with you, I don't really care, either cheer up or get lost."  with a side of "and by the way, you aren't going to stand up to me anymore in public because I don't like it....remember Caprice"

[TheFinalRose]

I miss the show too. I watched Real HoWives of Cheshire but it is so trashy and I truly need subtitles on that one. I wanted to order some JUBS as a joke gift for my friend but you just can't order one container, you have to order a minimum of six. Is that good business to restrict your customers that way?  I think not. 

[RCharter]

I miss the show too. I watched Real HoWives of Cheshire but it is so trashy and I truly need subtitles on that one. I wanted to order some JUBS as a joke gift for my friend but you just can't order one container, you have to order a minimum of six. Is that good business to restrict your customers that way?  I think not. 

I can't believe those are orderable.  I wonder how much for a package of 6?  The shipping costs must be incredible :(

[Sun-Bun]

Southern Charm had a reunion. Ladies of London does not.

Correction: "Southern Charm" had a reunion for its first season((in the Bravo Clubhouse though, ugh)), but nothing for its second/recent one. Which felt like a gyp.

And now I feel silly because I can't remember if LoL got a reunion last/their first season or not...something tells me they didn't??

[Babyfoot]

They had a Southern Charm season 2 reunion too, Sun Bun. Also in the Bravo clubhouse. But I'm with you, I watch both LOL and SC largely because of the real estate/location porn. Both are my favorite Bravo shows and it irritates the snot out of me that Bravo promotes these shows far less than their usual dreck. Charming accents, castles, family estates, historic neighborhoods, and great winter coats reel me in every time.

[DeeplyShallow]

Correction: "Southern Charm" had a reunion for its first season((in the Bravo Clubhouse though, ugh)), but nothing for its second/recent one. Which felt like a gyp.

And now I feel silly because I can't remember if LoL got a reunion last/their first season or not...something tells me they didn't??

They didn't.

But, yes, southern charm did have a 2nd season reunion in the WWHL clubhouse. I remember it, I watched it. Katherine was on, Thomas was a dick to her, they got on Craig for his partying ways... it definitely happened. Maybe you missed it because their reunion was without the fanfare the other shows get?

Back on topic: I don't get why they'd fly out Annabelle and Caroline for WWHL shows and not have a reunion. It's not like everyone gets the chance to go on WWHL. I feel like this show deserved a reunion.

I miss the show too. I watched Real HoWives of Cheshire but it is so trashy and I truly need subtitles on that one.

I couldn't make it through one full episode.

[RCharter]

They didn't.

But, yes, southern charm did have a 2nd season reunion in the WWHL clubhouse. I remember it, I watched it. Katherine was on, Thomas was a dick to her, they got on Craig for his partying ways... it definitely happened. Maybe you missed it because their reunion was without the fanfare the other shows get?

Back on topic: I don't get why they'd fly out Annabelle and Caroline for WWHL shows and not have a reunion. It's not like everyone gets the chance to go on WWHL. I feel like this show deserved a reunion.

I couldn't make it through one full episode.

I think this show absolutely should have a reunion because there are so many unanswered questions/beefs/etc.

 

There would be so much to talk about, so much shade to be thrown.  

 

They could have it at Mapperton, because in case you all didn't know.....it has to be saved.

[DeeplyShallow]

I think this show absolutely should have a reunion because there are so many unanswered questions/beefs/etc.

There would be so much to talk about, so much shade to be thrown.

They could have it at Mapperton, because in case you all didn't know.....it has to be saved.

Yes! That would've been brilliant. They could toast with white wine spritzers and snack on JUBs.

[Jezebel97]

Count me in as also missing the show, I hope it manages to come back.  

Meanwhile the miserable Millionaire Matchmaker & those horrible Manzos keep popping back

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jezebel97

[balshureen]

I love this show and Southern Charm as well, they are both gems.  I simply cannot tolerate the screaming bitches of the other housewives franchises.  They do not appeal to me at all... no offence to anyone on this board who enjoys them... I definitely feel like we have a very insightful and intelligent commentary on this Ladies of London forum, and that adds to my enjoyment of the show.

 

Caroline F now just irritates me.  Ok, so you want to invite Annabelle and Julie to your house to try to work things out between them.  Great, that's being a good friend (although weren't you talking shit about Annabelle in Denmark too- why is that ok with Annabelle?).  However, then you do not out of the blue confront Julie about your own issue with her, nor do you insert yourself into their disagreement.  They are sitting across the table from each other, this isn't the dissolution of a marriage with numerous assets and kids, shut the fuck up and don't be a mediator between them.

 

I think Annabelle's feelings are valid. I guess this is a case of Annabelle being dissapointed by her expectations of Julie.  This isn't a criticism, but perhaps she needs to lower her expectations of her friends, and things might not be so hard for her in the future.  I really feel for her.  It must be terribly lonely and said to pine for a relationship and a time in your life that is never coming back... and I think she's still trying grieving for him and trying to adapt to her new life without Mcqueen and his larger-than-lifer personality.  I guess in a way, Julie is probably grieving the change in circumstances in her own life, and maybe Annabelle could try to empathize with her on that point.  

 

However, in reading interviews, it seems like Julie and her husband lost a lot of old friends over his illness, and the fact that Annabelle stuck around and was trying to support Julie should have been enough for Julie to make more of an effort than she normally would have.  She certainly could have tried to contact Annabelle again before the pool party and try and talk it out again, but doesn't appear she did that.  

 

Caroline S is just bitchy.  She's the kind of persona who sails through life only thinking of "me, me, me", and karma never seems to come for them.  That being said, I kind of admire her ability to just move on from everything and not let things get her down. I think Julie and Annabelle both could take a page from her book in that regard. 

[RCharter]

I love this show and Southern Charm as well, they are both gems.  I simply cannot tolerate the screaming bitches of the other housewives franchises.  They do not appeal to me at all... no offence to anyone on this board who enjoys them... I definitely feel like we have a very insightful and intelligent commentary on this Ladies of London forum, and that adds to my enjoyment of the show.

 

Caroline F now just irritates me.  Ok, so you want to invite Annabelle and Julie to your house to try to work things out between them.  Great, that's being a good friend (although weren't you talking shit about Annabelle in Denmark too- why is that ok with Annabelle?).  However, then you do not out of the blue confront Julie about your own issue with her, nor do you insert yourself into their disagreement.  They are sitting across the table from each other, this isn't the dissolution of a marriage with numerous assets and kids, shut the fuck up and don't be a mediator between them.

 

I think Annabelle's feelings are valid. I guess this is a case of Annabelle being dissapointed by her expectations of Julie.  This isn't a criticism, but perhaps she needs to lower her expectations of her friends, and things might not be so hard for her in the future.  I really feel for her.  It must be terribly lonely and said to pine for a relationship and a time in your life that is never coming back... and I think she's still trying grieving for him and trying to adapt to her new life without Mcqueen and his larger-than-lifer personality.  I guess in a way, Julie is probably grieving the change in circumstances in her own life, and maybe Annabelle could try to empathize with her on that point.  

 

However, in reading interviews, it seems like Julie and her husband lost a lot of old friends over his illness, and the fact that Annabelle stuck around and was trying to support Julie should have been enough for Julie to make more of an effort than she normally would have.  She certainly could have tried to contact Annabelle again before the pool party and try and talk it out again, but doesn't appear she did that.  

 

Caroline S is just bitchy.  She's the kind of persona who sails through life only thinking of "me, me, me", and karma never seems to come for them.  That being said, I kind of admire her ability to just move on from everything and not let things get her down. I think Julie and Annabelle both could take a page from her book in that regard. 

I agree with 97.5% of your post.  And you brought up some points about Annabelle that I hadn't considered, but that make perfect sense to me.

 

However, I don't think Caroline S. "moves on" from much of anything.  I think she says she moves on, but her actions say otherwise.  To me, if she "just gets over things" she wouldn't have needed to retract her apology to Julie the day after making it.  Wouldn't the situation already be out of her mind the minute she made the apology?  She "just gets over things," but when Juliet called her to talk to her about the husband humping thing she said she was going to "wipe the floor" with her. To me, if I'm over something and I no longer care about it, I'm not going to get that worked up over it again at all.   

 

If nothing else, I do think Caroline S. is the sort to  say "well just get over it" but she doesn't "get over" a real, or perceived slight at all.