Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

Kind of a douche move..Barry only was told in the most extreme of circumstances. Oliver really doesn't have any right to tell Felicity.

 

I think it falls under a kind of code, you know my secrets (which includes Felicity's role) so they know his.  Arrow isn't just Oliver, it's the whole team so at the very least Dig, Oliver and Felicity should know, possibly Sara and Roy and Laurel though Barry wouldn't know about them so I'd hesitate to include them unless they need to know. 

 

I'd expect Barry's team to be in on secrets too if they eventually prove their trustworthiness to Barry. 

[Velocity23]

I would wish for Moira reappearance, but not gonna get my hopes up. 

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/508976041193242624

[apinknightmare]

I would wish for Moira reappearance, but not gonna get my hopes up. 

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/508976041193242624

 

 

Since Malcolm shows up, I guess they're going to find out what she was going to tell them without knowing that's what it was.

[statsgirl]

Felicity spent weeks sitting by the beside of a comatose Barry.  She obviously cares about him.  If he wakes up and suddenly has super-speed, she deserves to know, especially since she's keeping all sorts of secrets about Team Arrow herself.  She's not going to freak out.

 

Isn't Felicity's role on Flash 1x04 to help Barry and his team members deal with the whole superhero thing?

 

 

I would wish for Moira reappearance, but not gonna get my hopes up. 

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/508976041193242624

Probably they figure out she was trying to tell them that Malcolm is still alive, so I'm not getting my hopes up either.

Edited September 8, 2014 by statsgirl

[Sunshine]

It doesn't provide any context but in a flashtvnews.com article Greg Berlanti is quoted as saying there are "fisticuffs between heroes" in the first full crossover Flash vs Arrow. He also mentions deepening friendship between the two. They could be sparring or maybe they have some things to work out as males sometimes do.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't understand the twitter link...are we saying Moira is coming back in a flashback or something?

[icandigit]

 

Kind of a douche move..Barry only was told in the most extreme of circumstances. Oliver really doesn't have any right to tell Felicity.

Everyone's so gossipy on this show. I can't wait to see how this all transpires.

 

Did I miss remember Barrowman saying Oliver/Malcolm/Thea would be this bizarre family unit at comic con? Or do I just have odd hallucinations of Barrowman? I'm really curious about thist. Just seems like he would be another voice in Oliver's ear when Oliver is trying to figure all this Oliver/Arrow stuff out.

Edited September 9, 2014 by icandigit

[foreverevolving]

I don't understand the twitter link...are we saying Moira is coming back in a flashback or something?

no, 3x04 is the 50th episode, the one where Oliver finds out Malcolm is alive. so the guess is she was about to tell Oliver and Thea that the man was alive before the car hit them.

[wingster55]

I think it falls under a kind of code, you know my secrets (which includes Felicity's role) so they know his.  Arrow isn't just Oliver, it's the whole team so at the very least Dig, Oliver and Felicity should know, possibly Sara and Roy and Laurel though Barry wouldn't know about them so I'd hesitate to include them unless they need to know.

 

I...really can't agree with that. It's his secret. Not Oliver's..if Barry told his team before ep 8 Oliver would justifiably be angry.

What if Oliver tells Diggle? Barry barely knows the man

[foreverevolving]

ya` know... i'm just gonna go out on a limb and believe, until proven otherwise, that Felicity found out from Barry about the new super powers.

[SmallScreenDiva]

That's my head canon right now, foreverevolving. Barry wakes up, his powers begin to emerge, he panics a little, doesn't quite trust the strangers around him (I don't think he knows Caitlin, Cisco and the Doc from before, right?), so he races to Starling City to talk to people who might have a little experience dealing with the strange. Then, later on, when he's trying to figure out how to be a hero, he gives Oliver a call (or maybe Oliver heads to Central City in pursuit of a criminal). And that's the scene we see in the teaser :)

[KirkB]

It doesn't provide any context but in a flashtvnews.com article Greg Berlanti is quoted as saying there are "fisticuffs between heroes" in the first full crossover Flash vs Arrow. He also mentions deepening friendship between the two. They could be sparring or maybe they have some things to work out as males sometimes do.

 

What exactly would be the point of that? I mean, I like Arrow's chances against bank robbers, Bronze Tiger and the occasional roided up one eyed psycho but a fight with the Flash is basically a gust of wind and Oliver unconscious on the floor.

Edited September 9, 2014 by KirkB

[statsgirl]

Isn't it a trope that guys beat each other up before they become friends?  It happened with Oliver and Salde, and metaphorically with Diggle.

 

 

Did I miss remember Barrowman saying Oliver/Malcolm/Thea would be this bizarre family unit at comic con? Or do I just have odd hallucinations of Barrowman? I'm really curious about thist. Just seems like he would be another voice in Oliver's ear when Oliver is trying to figure all this Oliver/Arrow stuff out.

What I remember is him saying that Oliver's only remaining familiy is Thea (no uncles? aunts? cousin?) and Malcolm's only remaining family is Thea, so that makes the three of them a twisted family unit.

[ban1o]

I'm sorry but there's no way I could buy a fight between Oliver and Barry actually being a fight. I can't buy that Oliver could stand his own against Barry. That's the problem with god-like powers like that, they always weaken them unrealistically when the plot demands it. 

Edited September 9, 2014 by ban1o

[Sunshine]

@KirkB...No idea what the point would be. I was both surprised and amused when I read that.

Also interesting from that article, the villain in 3.08 is a Flash villain. So, Clock King goes to Flash in 1.07 and Arrow gets a Flash villain in 3.08.

ETA: I didn't post the link to the article because I don't really know how.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Sunshine

[BkWurm1]

I...really can't agree with that. It's his secret. Not Oliver's..if Barry told his team before ep 8 Oliver would justifiably be angry.

What if Oliver tells Diggle? Barry barely knows the man

 

Barry knows that Diggle is part of the Arrow team so I'd say he knows a lot.  I think Oliver would probably see sharing Bart's secret with his team as balancing the power.   I don't know how Felicity finds out about Barry's power but I don't think there'd be any reason for outrage on Barry's part.  He has to know at the very least that they'd all be in a mutually assured destruction scenario if for some reason he was worried about trusting them. 

 

I do see a time where Barry's team  might be trusted with knowledge about the Arrow but I qualified that as eventually since yeah, right now nobody, not even Barry really knows them or fully trusts them so it's not really the same as Oliver sharing Barry's secret with Felicity and Diggle since Barry knows about their secret already.

Edited September 9, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

This discussion reminds me of the talk that happened before 208/209 when we had spoilers that indicated Felicity would be the one to tell Barry Oliver's secret.  It was not pretty.

 

I have to admit I don't like the idea that Oliver just tells Felicity about Barry's powers but maybe (as with the Oliver/Barry situation) they can come up with a plausible explanation/situation for if/when Oliver reveals it to Felicity.  I think, at this point it's all speculation, we don't know that Oliver tells Felicity about Barry's powers.  Felicity might know or find out from a different source and Oliver simply encourages her to make a visit to Central City.

 

Unless I missed a spoiler?

Edited September 9, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Password]

This discussion reminds me of the talk that happened before 208/209 when we had spoilers that indicated Felicity would be the one to tell Barry Oliver's secret.  It was not pretty.

 

I have to admit I don't like the idea that Oliver just tells Felicity about Barry's powers but maybe (as with the Oliver/Barry situation) they can come up with a plausible explanation/situation for if/when Oliver reveals it to Felicity.  I think, at this point it's all speculation, we don't know that Oliver tells Felicity about Barry's powers.  Felicity might know or find out from a different source and Oliver simply encourages her to make a visit to Central City.

 

Unless I missed a spoiler?

 

Yes we're assuming he tells Felicity, without having any context. He may well just tell her Barry needs a friend to talk to, or he needs to tell her something.

 

And to be honest, Barry is so excited by his new power that if he is going to try to be Central City's hero, allowing Felicity, whom works with Starling City's hero, to know about his powers, doesn't seem like something he'd keep secret. Because just why? But yes, his secret to tell.

[quarks]

It's also possible that Felicity could just figure it out on her own.  After all, she knows about Mirakuru, so the idea of superpowers wouldn't be as completely out of the question for her as it would be for most people. She also knows that Barry was involved in a weird accident that left him in a coma for months. If the Flash's exploits start getting major publicity by episode two or three of Flash - episodes two or three of Arrow - she might realize that, hey, that all started happening right after Barry woke up. Sure, it is kinda a coincidence that the super speedy guy just happens to be one of the few people who know Oliver's secret identity, but then again given the number of people who know Oliver's secret identity (didn't we count up to like 16 or more by now, not counting random ARGUS people) maybe it's not that much of a coincidence.

 

Or this is just going to be something completely contrived for EPIC CROSSOVER/HIGHER RATINGS very special episodes. You decide :)

[tv echo]

Includes some Arrow crossover talk (nothing new though)...

 

Exclusive Interview with The Flash cast and producers at 2014 Paleyfest
Published on Sep 7, 2014, by Cherry Davis

Edited September 9, 2014 by tv echo

[strikera0]

Has this article been posted yet?

 

'Arrow' Boss on Oliver's Love Life: Not Many Superheroes "Are Married"

Edited September 9, 2014 by strikera0

[Velocity23]

Nope lol. I was kind of laughing hard at this article. 

[Morrigan2575]

How so?

[Velocity23]

Just how it came to the topic of marriage. I dont think anybody was thinking in that direction, unless someone was doing a fanfiction. 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, I haven't read it yet but the title in the link seemed to come out of nowhere

[dtissagirl]

The superheroes marrying part of that article is the biggest non sequitur I've read in a REALLY long time. I tend to enjoy Philiana Ng's Arrow articles, but I always have the feeling she's not paying as much attention to the show as she should. Last year she spoiled it that Lyla was Diggle's wife 6 hours before 206 aired, because she assumed everyone knew about that.

 

This is specially more hilarious when it comes out a couple of days after Amell compared Oliver in S3 to a Game of Thrones character that is an eunuch.

Edited September 9, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Password]

He's jumping the gun a bit there with marriage. But if that happens haaaay.

[Velocity23]

It just basically says it wont be all Olicity, i don't think anybody expected that. And its mostly quotes and some ideas of superhero marriages by the journalist.

 

And it just made me want to read that fanfic again where Felicity and Oliver get married in Vegas under the influence of Vertigo, courtesy of Helena. 

Edited September 9, 2014 by Velocity23

[NumberCruncher]

I'm more intrigued as to why Berlanti even had to address the issue because I don't even think most Olicity shippers expect their relationship to be the main focus of the show.  Sure they're really excited about it, but I haven't seen any comments around the web by them expressing a desire for the action to take a back seat so for me it's a non-issue.

[Guest]

Has this article been posted yet?

 

'Arrow' Boss on Oliver's Love Life: Not Many Superheroes "Are Married"

 

Um. No one ever expected (or wanted) their relationship to take over the show (and where the hell does marriage even come into this…whaaaaat?) but to say that they're dealing with the finale rather than with them (Olicity) is weird. I don't understand that at all. This is like a complete contradiction to all the spoilers we've heard at SDCC and everything. Is this back peddling or are they trying to placate the section of the audience that was worried about romance taking over?

Edited September 9, 2014 by Guest

[calliope1975]

Um. No one ever expected (or wanted) their relationship to take over the show (and where the hell does marriage even come into this…whaaaaat?) but to say that they're dealing with the finale rather than with them (Olicity) is weird. I don't understand that at all. This is like a complete contradiction to all the spoilers we've heard at SDCC and everything. Is this back peddling or are they trying to placate the section of the audience that was worried about romance taking over?

 

It is a bit weird to comment on marriage - I haven't seen that brought up anywhere unless it's mentioned as an option way, way down the road. I've read that the whole "marriage - eww" thing seems to be a New 52 mandate, but I don't know if that's true. I do feel if TPTB botch one of the few well done, organic relationships on this show, I'll be really irritated. Grr argh.

[wonderwall]

I'm more intrigued as to why Berlanti even had to address the issue because I don't even think most Olicity shippers expect their relationship to be the main focus of the show.  Sure they're really excited about it, but I haven't seen any comments around the web by them expressing a desire for the action to take a back seat so for me it's a non-issue.

lol what's funny is that it isn't even the oliciters who were thinking Olicity would take over the show, it's the non-oliciters (mostly the pro Laurel/lauriver people). 

[JJ928]

It feels like they've realized just how much they've given away, and this was damage control. The article doesn't concern me. I feel like GB was letting people know that Arrow isn't changing, romance will still be a side plot. I mean, all the teasers from the network have been mostly Olicity, & even SA said he was surprised the kiss was spoiled, so maybe he's just trying to put things back in the box. Also, for all we know he misspoke or was misquoted. I agree, the "dealing with the finale rather than with them" quote seems weird, especially since he said it wasn't a fake-out at comic-con, and that the O/F relationship was a season long arc.

Sometimes it seems like the show-runners don't talk to each other because GB was more vague at comic-com, compared to MG who stated O/F are in love with each other, and AK has his finger and toes so deep into the Flash, that he just repeats what GB says about Arrow. I'm going to wait and see what happens before getting annoyed because the show has done this before with interviews.

[Sunshine]

I think the dealing with the finale rather than with them is just about Oliver's "because of the life I lead..." stance.  They go back in the box romantically until later.   His journey in S3 is supposed to be about who does he want to be Arrow, Oliver or a combination.  

[NumberCruncher]

It feels like they've realized just how much they've given away, and this was damage control. The article doesn't concern me. I feel like GB was letting people know that Arrow isn't changing, romance will still be a side plot. I mean, all the teasers from the network have been mostly Olicity, & even SA said he was surprised the kiss was spoiled, so maybe he's just trying to put things back in the box. Also, for all we know he misspoke or was misquoted. I agree, the "dealing with the finale rather than with them" quote seems weird, especially since he said it wasn't a fake-out at comic-con, and that the O/F relationship was a season long arc.

Sometimes it seems like the show-runners don't talk to each other because GB was more vague at comic-com, compared to MG who stated O/F are in love with each other, and AK has his finger and toes so deep into the Flash, that he just repeats what GB says about Arrow. I'm going to wait and see what happens before getting annoyed because the show has done this before with interviews.

 

I can buy that the slight backpedal is because the EPs felt the Olicity promo was overdone.  One thing I do wonder is how much say the producers have in what The CW includes in the promos.  Stephen seemed mad when he saw the kiss promo and he made a point at SLCC that if he were a showrunner he would be incredibly tight-lipped.  Perhaps the network showed more than the producers wanted them to as far as Olicity is concerned, and knowing the show is going to break them up in the premiere, this was Berlanti's way of managing audience expectations.

 

I agree with you that GB is probably the least forthcoming of the EPs, but AK certainly isn't following Berlanti's lead.  If I remember correctly, Kreisberg was the one gushing the most of all the EPs about Olicity at SDCC, which I found really strange given his history with the comic books.  To me, Berlanti has always struck me as more of a developmental/supervisory EP since he's always juggling so many different shows at any given time.  If anything, I would trust Berlanti's perspective the least since is seems MG and AK are more involved in the detailed day-to-day workings of the show.

[Guest]

Yeah, as much as I enjoyed seeing it, I wish I hadn't seen the Olicity kiss in the promo. That would have been a wonderful surprise in the episode, even though I was expecting a kiss anyway. I think I would have preferred not knowing for sure.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Guest

[catrox14]

Hmmm why would he bring up marriage. I am now unreasonably excited to think that maybe, just maybe, the big twist is that Oliver and Felicity go to Vegas because Mama Smoak reasons and then have a quickie wedding in Vegas and they don't tell anyone. 

Edited September 9, 2014 by catrox14

[Morrigan2575]

I can buy that the slight backpedal is because the EPs felt the Olicity promo was overdone.  One thing I do wonder is how much say the producers have in what The CW includes in the promos.  Stephen seemed mad when he saw the kiss promo and he made a point at SLCC that if he were a showrunner he would be incredibly tight-lipped.  Perhaps the network showed more than the producers wanted them to as far as Olicity is concerned, and knowing the show is going to break them up in the premiere, this was Berlanti's way of managing audience expectations.

 

They have no control over the promo unless they make their own (which SPN had to do several times).  As MG said last season, they had no idea Harley Quinn would end up in the Suicide Squad promo

[Chaser]

He wasn't really saying anything new; it was just the tone that was. One of the EPs was certainly getting a bit fanboyish at Comic Con lol. If anything, I think it was just a reaction to the Olicity heavy promotion.  

 

I just like the 'In the Arrow, Oliver and Laurel are married.' Like Hell they are

[Chairman Meow]

A long long time ago in a fandom far far away... okay it was Bones, and it was like 4 years ago.  Anyway - when I was in the Bones fandom I knew a guy who knew a guy who was involved with the production of that show and he explained that the promos (for Fox shows at least) are done by the network with no producer input.  The network is provided with rough cut footage of the upcoming episode and they cut together a promo.  Often times the tone, context or focus of the promo will be completely out of sync with the actual content of the episode.  On a few occasions you will even see stuff in a promo that ends up NOT being in the episode because it got cut in the final version. 

 

The producers and show people are focused on telling their story... the network is trying to put butts in seats to watch their show, so it's not unheard of for them to fudge a little on the promo and include moments that are guaranteed to be 'fan favorites' or imply that the focus of an epidode is fan pleasing, just to get people to watch. 

 

I don't know if CW promos are cut the same way, but there sure have been a lot of bait & switchy stuff for the shows I watch, so I'd venture to say that they are. 

 

 

[statsgirl]

I think it's the problem of trying to juggle spoilers in the age on internet and social media.  On one hand, they don't want to spoil anything that will make a real difference in viewing so they spoil stuff about the date and relationships. And then that gets focused on and emphasized so they have to draw back.

 

It's a long  time between SDCC and the first episode of the season.

 

I agree with you that GB is probably the least forthcoming of the EPs, but AK certainly isn't following Berlanti's lead.  If I remember correctly, Kreisberg was the one gushing the most of all the EPs about Olicity at SDCC, which I found really strange given his history with the comic books.  To me, Berlanti has always struck me as more of a developmental/supervisory EP since he's always juggling so many different shows at any given time.  If anything, I would trust Berlanti's perspective the least since is seems MG and AK are more involved in the detailed day-to-day workings of the show.

I trust Berlanti's opinions the most because he is the one farthest back from personal involvement with the show. AK wrote the comics, MG is doing 2.5 so they are very close to their vision of the show.  If anyone is going to say "Laurel is not working as  BC", it's going to be Berlanti.

[blixie]

 

Stephen seemed mad when he saw the kiss promo and he made a point at SLCC that if he were a showrunner he would be incredibly tight-lipped.

Ha, I find this amusing that almost every SDCC interview with him was "SPOILER ALERT", he could not stop himself from giving a LOT of indicators of what was going to happen, generally and specifically. Whatever, I hate when people think the only thing interesting about what they have done is the "surprise" factor especially when good storytelling isn't really about twists/shockers/surprises.  I will remain spoilered to the max for life.

[dtissagirl]

I don't know if CW promos are cut the same way, but there sure have been a lot of bait & switchy stuff for the shows I watch, so I'd venture to say that they are. 

 

Yup, the CW is the same way. They make promos off the network cut of the episodes, which is not the final cut that goes onto broadcast. Same with still images -- sometimes they picture a scene, or part of a scene, that ends up cut. To make showrunners' lives worse, AND THEN there's CTV on Canada, who likes to cut even more spoilery promos for the CW shows they air.

 

I think Arrow gets a bit more ~special here because it really looks like the EPs are reading their mentions on Twitter, so they see fandom's reaction to each and every new bit of spoilery information. I read spoilers for other shows that cast & crew aren't online as much, and there's a lot less flip-flopping in answers, and WAY less answers that look like damage control over their @ mentions on Twitter.

[wonderwall]

I've been called an asshole for doing this, but everytime I read the book, I read the first two chapters, then read the ending then go back to read the entire thing. I'm not too big on surprises or plot twists, but I do welcome some occasional ones. Very occasional. And to me, like blixie, it's about the story and not the surprise factor. But I suppose in a television show, these surprise factors are what people end up talking about the most which is why I kind of understand SA in that sense. 

[Password]

I've been called an asshole for doing this, but everytime I read the book, I read the first two chapters, then read the ending then go back to read the entire thing. I'm not too big on surprises or plot twists, but I do welcome some occasional ones. Very occasional. And to me, like blixie, it's about the story and not the surprise factor. But I suppose in a television show, these surprise factors are what people end up talking about the most which is why I kind of understand SA in that sense.

I don't mind a good twist as long as it doesn't feel like too much of a WTH. Take Tommy's death, that was a major twist because it seemed he was going down one road them BAM! Nope, Tommy died the hero, not Oliver. Also the Glades actually being destroyed made the finale of season 1 one of the best I've seen because they actually went there.

As long as the twist doesn't you know, make me want to quit the show, we're all good.

I think the interview was just meant to reassure people that the show wouldn't turn into a soap opera (ironic considering some of the romantic storylines chosen) and that the action and hero side will still be the focus.

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

I will remain spoilered to the max for life.

 

Hee! Me too.  If there are spoilers about a show I watch, I will read them every single time.  Spoilers don't bother me and they don't take away from the show for me either.  If I love/hate something in an episode, being spoiled about it first won't change that.

 

That article by GB seems pretty innocuous to me and I don't see any backpedaling.  It's the same stuff he has been saying about Season 3 all along. There is a progression with Olicity, but it is also about Arrow's crime fighting, Ra's al Ghul and other big bads, and Thea/Malcolm with some twists and turns along the way. Sounds good to me.

[blixie]

 

I read the first two chapters, then read the ending then go back to read the entire thing. I'm not too big on surprises or plot twists,

 

Ha, I totally do this all the time. I waited WAY too long to jump to the end of Stephen King's IT and have rued it. Could of stopped 200 pages from the end and remained happily oblivious to the ultra stupid let down ending.

 

I think one of the worst things about social media/TBTP is they start to forget that online fandom is a *tiny sliver* of their whole audience, and  most of your average viewers watching those promo's whole take away is going ot be: ooh Arrown's back on October 8th, yay. Not did you see how Felicity was wearing TWO different orange dresses before the date after the kiss OMG  WTF BBQ. I mean maybe it registers that Felicity/Oliver might kiss, but it's no nearly as make it or break it for them as it is intense online Olicity fandom of which SA is the Captain. Hee.

Edited September 9, 2014 by blixie

[Chaser]

OMG WTF BBQ .... Literal LOL

 

My Dad watches Arrow but he isn't apart of the online community. I asked him if he has seen the new promo and he was like "'The one where Oliver and Felicity kiss?" lol

[willpwr]

I took "It's more that we're dealing with the finale than we are with them." as him saying that the focus is on Oliver becoming Green Arrow and less about Olicty which is a strange way of wording it but he's probably getting a lot of negative feedback because some people think Olicity will take over the show. He said it in a less confusing way at the beginning, "None of us like to throw stuff out there and then not deal with it in some way. It doesn't mean it occupies the story and that's all we deal with, but you want to be fair to the audience,". 

[statsgirl]

I guess a lot of people were upset at the fake-out in the finale because the EPs keep saying that no, it wasn't all a lie and yes, they will be dealing with that as soon as the new season starts.  So they're going to tick-off the 'Oliver's feelings for Felicity?' box and then withdraw to post-horrible-date, and maybe move forward the rest of the season.  Meanwhile there are lots of villains and adventures for our gang.

 

I think it was Aristotle who said that you should read a book twice (or story in his case), once to find out what happens and then again to appreciate the storytelling.