Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

There won't be any long term secrets between L/T and the rest of the team. With Constantine coming in 3x05, Laurel/Thea must come back towards the end of 3x04. Laurel explains what she has done, Oliver gets pissed, Laurel asks/wishses for some kind of solution, Oliver opens up his rolodex and suddenly remembers his supernatural friend that he placed in the mystic section that he keeps skipping over.

I'm confused.  Is Constantine in the 4th or the 5th episode? 

[Starfish35]

He's in the 5th episode, but it was shot 4th, if I understand correctly. The production order of the 4th and 5th episodes were switched.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Starfish35

[Angel12d]

So, wait. What the hell will be happening in 404? I thought they'd resurrect Sara in 403, she goes cray cray and then Constantine in the following episode.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm confused.  Is Constantine in the 4th or the 5th episode? 

5th episode. But with Katie gone for majority of the production of the 4th episode I think they will have her return towards the end to set up the 5th episode.

[Starfish35]

I thought it was the 6th episode that KC was mostly out of town for (NYFW)? That's also the episode with Donna Smoak, so it makes sense that it would be a Laurel-light episode.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

Maybe I'm getting my episodes mixed up, I thought it was the 4th.

[tarotx]

The 4th episode seemed to be An emotional episode for Paul. That's what I remember.

[Starfish35]

I think it will go something like this:

4.03 Restoration - Sara's brought back to life but she's crazy.

4.04 Beyond Redemption - It says that "Laurel must deal with the repercussions of taking Sara to Nanda Parbat." I figured this is when Laurel brings Sara back to SC and asks for Oliver's help.

4.05 Haunted - this is when Oliver brings Constantine in.

[kismet]

I really don't think they're killing Nyssa. I don't know why, but after the brouhaha over Sara's death and the fridging of female characters, I really doubt they're gonna kill her. Maybe I'm just naive. 

I don't know why, but I'm with you on the I don't think they will kill Nyssa. I used to think they would, but now I feel they will keep her alive and just ship her off to a mountain somewhere. There is little they can gain beyond a quick gotcha moment if they kill her. The emotions will resonate with the characters & the audience - but they also would have killed off one of their best grey female characters. The cost of her death for a quick twist will definitely outweigh the benefits/

 

I feel like bringing back SL will push Nyssa over the edge though and make her want to be more of a bad guy again. I think she will leave the show to find clarity on a mountain somwhere and the next time we see her she will be coming after LL, MM & TA.  I actually think the story potential is so much greater to keep her alive, that the writers will avoid killing her despite their inner desire to get the big emotional death.

[BkWurm1]

I think it will go something like this:

4.03 Restoration - Sara's brought back to life but she's crazy.

4.04 Beyond Redemption - It says that "Laurel must deal with the repercussions of taking Sara to Nanda Parbat." I figured this is when Laurel brings Sara back to SC and asks for Oliver's help.

4.05 Haunted - this is when Oliver brings Constantine in.

I'm thinking now we don't get much of crazy Sara in this week's episode. Probably just a taste, her leaping out like a snarling animal and if they follow procedure, someone tranqs her and then we see her in chains. 

 

Then next week they ...what, fly her back to go crazy in the town that is used to it?  It would make more sense to leave her chained in NP but somehow I don't see that happening.  I'm actually surprised we get an entire episode of crazy Sara before they bring in a fix.   

[bijoux]

I think it will go something like this:

4.03 Restoration - Sara's brought back to life but she's crazy.

4.04 Beyond Redemption - It says that "Laurel must deal with the repercussions of taking Sara to Nanda Parbat." I figured this is when Laurel brings Sara back to SC and asks for Oliver's help.

4.05 Haunted - this is when Oliver brings Constantine in.

As far as I remember, Oliver and Quentin are supposed to have an emotional scene and the new task force with the new cop appears for the first time in 4x04.

[apinknightmare]

Didn't SA say that 4x04 was "Meh"? Or did I imagine that?

[bijoux]

 

 

 

 

Now I absolutely need this to happen. A Lyla-Felicity PTA meeting.

 

Dig: Sweetie...

Lyla: Don't you sweetie me. Like going to Sara's daycare for being a biter wasn't humiliating enough!

Oliver: You know, our neighbors gave me a tip about biters.

Dig: *glares*

[Password]

OK erm probably not a popular view but, whenever I think of Laurel and this Lazarus Pit business, I burst out laughing.

Oh Laurel.

[tv echo]

Since some threads/posts have been merged, I don't know if all of the source citations are still accurate...

 

SUMMARY OF ALL SPOILERS FOR NEXT THREE EPISODES (403 - 405)

 

S4, Episode 3: Restoration
-- Production code: 403.  Director: Wendey Stanzler.  Airdate: Oct. 21, 2015.
-- 403 synopsis: "The growing tension between Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Diggle (David Ramsey) puts both their lives at risk when they go after Damien Darhk (guest star Neal McDonough) and a H.I.V.E. deployed meta-human. Meanwhile, Laurel (Katie Cassidy) talks Thea (Willa Holland) into returning to Nanda Parbat to ask her father (John Barrowman) to put Sara (guest star Caity Lotz) into the Lazarus Pit. However, Laurel is surprised when Nyssa (guest star Katrina Law) refuses to do it. Wendey Stanzler directed the episode written by Wendy Mericle & Speed Weed (#403). Original airdate 10/21/2015."
-- 403 preview pics posted.  (amellynation article, page 23 of Spoilers thread)
-- 403 producer's preview video posted. (WM tweet, page 23 of Spoilers thread)

-- 403 sneak peek videos posted. (CW Arrow tweet and TV Guide article, page 23 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per MG, Billy Joel song for 4x03 would be "I Go to Extremes." (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- Jeremy Tell aka Double Down (JR Bourne) and Conklin (Ryan Robbins) will debut in this episode. Jocelyn Ott and Giles Panton will appear in an early episode of S4 and may be working with JR Bourne. (JO, JRB and GP tweets, page 183 of Behind the Mask thread)
-- JR Bourne has been cast as Jeremy Tell, a/k/a Double Down, a DC comic book villain. Tell is a metahuman who can turn his playing card tattoos into deadly weapons. He will appear in 4x03. (TheWrap article, page 18 of Spoilers thread)
-- In response to a fan asking if we're gonna see Felicity in a casino playing cards again because she's so awesome at it, MG: "There’s kind of a reference to it in Ep. 403." (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- On their encounter with Double Down [in 403], EK: "This meta-human tracks down Felicity, and Curtis is with her, and they kind of go through a sequence where Felicity's badass-ness has to come into the forefront. She has to shut down that situation and save the day. So I think it's a really cool moment because you get to see Felicity really be the hero that she is." (TV Guide article, page 23 of Spoilers thread)

-- Double Down approaches elevator which has Curtis and Felicity in it.  Felicity kicks Double Down back just as elevator doors close. Curtis asks "since when are you such a badass?"  Felicity answers "since always." (Official S4 trailer posted as SA facebook video, page 20 of Spoilers thread, and Velocity23 post, page 589 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per MG, Malcolm Merlyn will keep the long cape but will get back in the hood in 4x03. (Flicks and the City video of full Arrow panel at SDCC 2015, page 64 of Starling City Times thread, and TVLine article, page 20 of Spoilers thread)
-- Ryan Robbins has been cast in the recurring role of Conklin for S4.  Conklin is "a sadistic and ruthless member of Shadowspire who will be an adversary for Oliver" in flashbacks. This flashback arc will also see Oliver take on Baron Reiter, who is the leader of Shadowspire.  Conklin will make his first appearance in 4x03. (Variety article, page 18 of Spoilers thread and page 563 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

-- [ALREADY DEBUTED] Jimmy Akingbola has been cast in the recurring role of Baron Reiter.  He is the leader of the nefarious group Shadowspire. He will be Oliver’s adversary seen in flashbacks. This grizzled, hardened and commanding man, who has no conscience and few compunctions, offers Oliver a job in his underground organization." (Deadline article, page 559 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
 

S4, Episode 4: Beyond Redemption
-- Production code: 405.  Director: Lexi Alexander.  Airdate: Oct. 28, 2015. (Production codes are in production order, not air date order.)
-- 4th ep. synopsis: "Laurel (Katie Cassidy) must deal with the repercussions of taking Sara (guest star Caity Lotz) to Nanda Parbat. Meanwhile, Oliver (Stephen Amell) asks Captain Lance (Paul Blackthorne) for a favor and while he’s not surprised at the response, he is surprised at what he finds out next. Lexi Alexander directed the episode written by Beth Schwartz & Ben Sokolowski (#405).  Original airdate 10/28/2015."
-- Per MG, Billy Joel song for 4th episode would be "Great Suburban Showdown."  (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- Liza Warner (Rutina Wesley) may be making her debut in this episode. (RW tweet and instagram pic, page 20 of Spoilers thread, and Arrow Production Offices tweet, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- Conklin (Ryan Robbins) will appear in this episode (in addition to previous episode). (LA tweet, page 20 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per MG, "the title refers to more than one person or thing... There’s a bunch of things in episode 4 that are beyond redemption. It’s something that keeps coming up in that episode. There’s a bunch of big revelations in that episode, and some key discoveries. It’s an episode where the title pretty much touches on the different storylines to that episode.” (GreenArrowTV article, page 19 of Spoilers thread)

-- Oliver surprises TA with a new, upgraded Arrowcave.  (Video promo for 404 in Pidank tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)

 

S4, Episode 5: Haunted
-- Production code: 404.  Director: John Badham.  Airdate: Nov. 4, 2015. (Production codes are in production order, not air date order.)
-- 5th ep. synopsis: "When things take a turn for the worse with Sara (guest star Caity Lotz), Oliver (Stephen Amell) calls in a favor from an old friend who deals in the mystical, John Constantine (guest star Matt Ryan). John Badham directed the episode written by Brian Ford Sullivan & Oscar Balderrama (#404). Original airdate 11/4/2015."
- Per MG, Billy Joel song for 5th episode would be a tie between: "Modern Woman", "Only the Good Die Young", "She's Always a Woman", "She's Right on Time" and "That's Not Her Style." (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- John Constantine (played by Matt Ryan) will appear in this episode. Per MG, he "will factor into the fallout from bringing Sara Lance (Caity Lotz) back to life via the Lazarus Pit." He will provide “critical support to Oliver (Stephen Amell) when arrows aren’t enough.” (SpoilerTV, TVInsider and EW articles, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per WM, Constantine's role was "born out of the storyline for Sara Lance. We needed someone to come in and help bring her back.". (IGN article, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- Constantine will be "key" in resurrecting Sara, whose presence will be met by "very different reactions" from her family. (TVLine article, page 20 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Sara's resurrection via the LP, WM: “It’s a different thing than it was with Thea... To put it bluntly, she’s more dead. We needed somebody to come in and basically resurrect her and bring her soul back. We were really thrilled that we were able to get Matt Ryan. He’s the perfect character to do it.” (EW article, page 20 of Spoilers thread)
-- MG: "When you see him in the show, honestly it feels like we’re doing a Constantine/Arrow crossover, and it’s so exciting… We’re just really glad we got the chance to extend Matt Ryan’s run as Constantine by at least one more hour of television. I think you’ll see he fits very neatly into our universe. It never feels forced, it feels right. Stephen’s on screen vibe with Matt is just very natural, it’s as if these guys had been working together forever." (SuperHeroHype article, page 20 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Constantine, WM: "Absolutely. He is coming in fully as who he was on the show. We’re getting wardrobe. We’re very excited to have him. He’s a tremendous actor. It’s so cool to have that cross-pollination. We are very lucky and DC was very generous letting us have him. It was born more out of the storyline for Sara Lance. We needed someone to come in and help bring her back. He felt like the most exciting possibility and we’re just thrilled to get him. He brings such a different element to the show." (IGN article, page 22 of Spoilers thread)
-- MG:  "It's really cool. We've got all the props, we've got all the original costumes, and we've got the original Matt Ryan. I think, for us, when we finished watching the first cut of it we were like, 'You know what, this feels like a legitimate crossover. This feels like we crossed over the other show, just the other show is not crossing over with us.'" (IGN article, page 22 of Spoilers thread, and ETonline article, page 22 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per MG, they've already written and shot the Constantine episode, and Constantine doesn't die at the end. (GenderBiasedReviews article, page 20 of Spoilers thread)
-- On the possibility of Constantine returning to the show, WM: "Right now, it really was -- it’s born out of necessity for this particular story. I think Mark [Pedowitz] said, and Mark was right, it is a one off and this is what we’re focusing on right now." (IGN article, page 22 of Spoilers thread)
-- On TA's reaction to Constantine and the supernatural, MG: "If you go back and rewatch Season 3, [Oliver] refers to having some experience with the mystical. Oliver knows that the world is a larger place than most people think. So the team will have one reaction, but Oliver will have more of an experienced reaction." (TVInsider article, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per MG, we "can expect some significant Constantine/Laurel interaction." (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- This episode wrapped shooting on August 26, 2015, and includes a scene with Quentin and Laurel next to the Lazarus Pit. (PB tweets and pics, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- Felicity and Constantine meet in this episode. (MG tumblr post, page 23 of Spoilers thread)
-- Episode 4x05 is the episode for you if you want Oliver/Laurel scenes. (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread) [postED BEFORE PRODUCTION CODE NUMBER CHANGE]
-- "There will be life after love for Thea, and it rears its 'handsome, charming, witty' head in Episode 5 in the form of Alex, a sharp and polished political consultant who will eventually get Speedy to utter these two very important words: 'Roy who?'" (TVLine article, page 18 of Spoilers thread) [postED BEFORE PRODUCTION CODE NUMBER CHANGE]
-- Parker Young has been cast in the recurring role of Alex Davis, a clever, ambitious young man who begins working for Oliver and catches Thea's eye.  (TV Guide article, page 19 of Spoilers thread; ETonline article, page 565 of Spoiler Discussion thread; and TVAfterDark article, page 71 of Starling City Times thread)

Edited October 25, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

So this is so bizarre a thing to comment on.... but I think I might miss the wig if only because I'm not sure if the hair people can handle OQ with short hair in the FB & PD. It looks like in the FB, he will have a very militaristic high & tight in the FB (I think that is the expression) - which doesn't really blend well with his PD short male crop cut. I hope they find some way to balance out the looks. If there is going to be no wig, then I demand his hair look good in both PD & FB. The hair dept can't blame it on the wig anymore. Problem is those hairdos are really hard to be versatile and the hair dept is not the strongest in the Arrow world.

 

I'm expressing this concern now, because his hair looks wicked horrible in this photo. Maybe it's his hair reacting to FS's loud voice or JD's disgust making it look bad - but either way that boy needs to do something with his hair. 

[Angel12d]

I wonder if Quentin will start hitting the bottle again now that his daughter is back from the dead for the third time. He's gonna be messed up, particularly if he sees her all cray cray. Not that I really care what Quentin does anymore because I'm so over his character now but still. What a mind f***.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Angel12d

[AyChihuahua]

I hate his hair so far this season.  It's not flattering.  I like it longer...I thought the big Flarrow crossover last season was his best hair look.

 

And yeah, the flashback organization is militaristic, but it's not actually regular military, so they wouldn't have grooming regulations like the US military.  Grow it out a little, geez.

[bijoux]

I think it does grow out. It looked longer in The Flash promo at Jitters with Barry. Maybe SA just cuts it short over hiatus. It was short at the beginning of the last season as well.

[kismet]

I wonder if Quentin will start hitting the bottle again now that his daughter is back from the dead for the third time. He's gonna be messed up, particularly if he sees her all cray cray. Not that I really care what Quentin does anymore because I'm so over his character now but still. What a mind f****.

I still care about QL. I know he did bad things last year, but I can't help it. (I will go hide in my little corner) I feel like his character can be redeemed. Anyway, I'm gonna be pissed for him again - because I think his beloved daughter will lie to him or at least keep him out of the loop again. I just want one scene where QL his little head acting with his awkward accent slurring "Really Laurel?", the way it does when his base accent sometimes breaks through his American accent.

 

But you've got to feel a little bad for the guy that his daughter treats him the way she does. First the lying, then the attitude & now the sneaking behind his back. At some point, he must wonder what he did to get a crazy daughter that willingly chooses to bring his other daughter back from the dead thereby making her crazy. All without a brief BTW Dad, do you think this might be a good idea. Mind f*** doesn't begin to explain it. He's probably gonna think he's on a bender either way.

[Angel12d]

I still care about QL. I know he did bad things last year, but I can't help it. (I will go hide in my little corner) I feel like his character can be redeemed. Anyway, I'm gonna be pissed for him again - because I think his beloved daughter will lie to him or at least keep him out of the loop again. I just want one scene where QL his little head acting with his awkward accent slurring "Really Laurel?", the way it does when his base accent sometimes breaks through his American accent.

 

But you've got to feel a little bad for the guy that his daughter treats him the way she does. First the lying, then the attitude & now the sneaking behind his back. At some point, he must wonder what he did to get a crazy daughter that willingly chooses to bring his other daughter back from the dead thereby making her crazy. All without a brief BTW Dad, do you think this might be a good idea. Mind f*** doesn't begin to explain it. He's probably gonna think he's on a bender either way.

 

I guess I'm just tired of the Lance family. I found Quentin annoying in season 1 but they bought him into the fold in season 2 and I liked him. Then season 3 destroyed that. Now I just don't care. I'm just done with this cycle of crap over and over. 

[AyChihuahua]

I feel bad for Quentin for what Laurel did to him, but I still loathe him for what HE did.  He is both victim and victimizer.

 

I personally don't give a shit about Quentin being redeemed, not because what he did is so unforgivable (although for me it probably is, but I personally will probably never forgive Oliver, either, although I may move past it with Oliver), but because we've seen all this before.  He was anti-vigilante, then pro-, then anti-, then pro-ish, now anti- again.  The latter two switches happened in just one episode.  He was anti-Oliver, then forgave him (they had a real moment at Sara's welcome back party), then hated him again.  So he's not at all trustworthy, and if they give him their trust again, they are idiots.  

 

The writers could have avoided all this so easily if they'd made him pissed at Oliver about Malcolm killing Sara and Oliver protecting Malcolm, instead of the rando BS he was pissed about (also it would have been better not to have had him hit a handcuffed prisoner).  That would have even covered him going specifically after Oliver while ignoring Laurel's vigilante activities, bc going after Oliver wouldn't have been about vigilante-ing but instead about protecting Malcolm.  Thus taking care of the glaring hypocrisy problem.

Edited October 20, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I think it does grow out. It looked longer in The Flash promo at Jitters with Barry. Maybe SA just cuts it short over hiatus. It was short at the beginning of the last season as well.

There's short and then there is whatever this is. It looks like a Flat Top, but not the stylish kind. I kinda like him with either short or longish hair. Heck, I actually enjoyed it shaved last year as well. But this length is a little awkward right now.

I guess I'm just tired of the Lance family. I'm just done with this cycle of crap over and over. 

Oh I agree with that.... That's why I think one of the Lances needs to be in the ground 6 mo from 401. I just feel like QL can be less drama prone if LL is not around. Which is why I would choose him over her. LL I think thrives off the melodrama and that's even more tiring. Perhaps the writers make QL a flip-flopper - but at least they find ways to put him in the actual plot. Not just tag-a-long or torpedo the few plot points given to their character.

Edited October 20, 2015 by kismet

[bijoux]

I still care about QL. I know he did bad things last year, but I can't help it. (I will go hide in my little corner) I feel like his character can be redeemed. Anyway, I'm gonna be pissed for him again - because I think his beloved daughter will lie to him or at least keep him out of the loop again. I just want one scene where QL his little head acting with his awkward accent slurring "Really Laurel?", the way it does when his base accent sometimes breaks through his American accent.

 

But you've got to feel a little bad for the guy that his daughter treats him the way she does. First the lying, then the attitude & now the sneaking behind his back. At some point, he must wonder what he did to get a crazy daughter that willingly chooses to bring his other daughter back from the dead thereby making her crazy. All without a brief BTW Dad, do you think this might be a good idea. Mind f*** doesn't begin to explain it. He's probably gonna think he's on a bender either way.

You can sit with me. He makes me ragey but at the end of the day I still care what happens to him.

[Morrigan2575]

I still care about QL. I know he did bad things last year, but I can't help it. (I will go hide in my little corner) I feel like his character can be redeemed.

 

Replying in Bittnerness thread since it's a past episode discussion (not really bitter though).

[romantic idiot]

 I mean, I ain't mad at 'em, but they will totally lie to keep story points under wraps.  (I get it, but personally I would prefer a "no comment" to an actual lie, but I'm generally creeped out by people who can easily lie.)

 

They are actors - don't they lie for a living? I'd hope they can lie easily. Would be exhausting for them otherwise. 

 

Here's my best case scenario for Nyssa's death: The pit demands a life to give back a life. So Nyssa goes willingly. I hope to God Nyssa doesn't die, though. And that's partly where the madness comes from, because the soul / memories are still sticking around and need to be purged. 

[AyChihuahua]

Acting is pretending, not lying.  Totally different things.  Just say "I can't talk about the upcoming season," or pull a Guggie and say "You'll just have to keep watching to find out."  

[romantic idiot]

But that implies there's something coming or often serves to confirm the rumour. *shrugs* Eh, to be honest, actors, producers etc. do what they think will make people watch the show. So I don't expect them to give away anything they don't want to or aren't allowed to, either way. 

[Velocity23]

New sneak peek of Nyssa and Laurel

https://twitter.com/CW_Arrow/status/656514811220508672

[Proteus]

So why is everyone freaking out about Nyssa? I see no evidence about her dying.

[apinknightmare]

Just because she hasn't filmed anything since 3x03. There's nothing indicating she's dying, just speculation.

[AyChihuahua]

But that implies there's something coming or often serves to confirm the rumour. *shrugs* Eh, to be honest, actors, producers etc. do what they think will make people watch the show. So I don't expect them to give away anything they don't want to or aren't allowed to, either way. 

I'm not talking about current information, I'm talking about past information, which we know for a fact was a lie, e.g., Oliver is "dead."  He was actually never dead, and he obviously did not stay "dead"-ish.  As I said, I am fine with them not giving plot points away.  I said I do not like it when they lie, which is entirely different than refusing to spoil plot points.

[HighwayFlower]

It came from speculation that using the pit would cause something so terrible to happen it would shut the door on it ever being used again, and life for a life led to speculation on Nyssa.

But the theory that they can't use it again because it dries up would work too.

Edited October 20, 2015 by HighwayFlower

[BumpSetSpike]

New sneak peek of Nyssa and Laurel

https://twitter.com/CW_Arrow/status/656514811220508672

 

It is as if Nyssa is saying to Laurel exactly what all of us are thinking.

[dtissagirl]

I bet this script is filled with dialog said to Laurel that could have been audience commentary, but Laurel is gonna do Laurel in this episode of That's So Laurel. It's exactly how they wrote Canaries.

[catrox14]

OMG That sneak peek. I just. Thank gods for Katrina Law making that scene remotely watchable.

 

 Fuck off, Laurel. Nyssa is speaking the truth. This is not about Sara or her spirit. Never has been. EVER.

 

The show is so actively retconning Laurel's opinions about Sara and HER SPIRIT that it's laughable. Too little setup, too late. And as such it's up to KC to sell "BUT HER SPIRIT!!! WE HAVE TO TRY!!" My eyes are somewhere on the floor now because they've rolled out. KC failed to do that. IMO

 

Laurel: Meet me at camera 3:  Laurel, if the literal worst person on Earth aka Ra's Al Malcolm Merlyn is telling you to STAHP; if Nyssa who knows of some crazy fucked up shit re Ra's Al Gossip Ghul because of the LP is telling you to stop; if  Oliver has told you bad things are going to happen and you still can't acknowledge what Thea is going through adding to the evidence that you need to STOP;  yet you are gonna go ahead and do it anyway? Again, I say fuck off, Laurel.

 

Of course, I fully expect the show will spin it that Laurel was THE ONLY ONE WHO BELIEVED HARD ENOUGH so Sara will be saved and she'll be okay enough to go off into the spinoff. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by catrox14

[Chaser]

I just love that other people have to bring up Sara's wellbeing, cause apparently that's not a thought for Laurel.

[HighwayFlower]

It is as if Nyssa is saying to Laurel exactly what all of us are thinking.

But Laurel won't listen... Because she is selfish and stubborn. Are we sure the writers don't hate her?

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, the writers seem to feel like paying lip-service/lampshading their bad choices is enough, that they don't actually have to fix the problems they create, so I don't actually expect the show to punish Laurel for this.

[Angel12d]

But Laurel won't listen... Because she is selfish and stubborn. Are we sure the writers don't hate her?

 

They don't hate her. If they did she'd actually suffer the consequences of her actions for more than two episodes. That'll never happen.

 

I'm happy to have Sara back but I just want these episodes over already. *Focus on OTA, focus on OTA, happy place*

[catrox14]

But Laurel won't listen... Because she is selfish and stubborn. Are we sure the writers don't hate her?

 

Unless they throw a major swerve and make Laurel a villain, which would make so much of this make sense, I'm thinking they don't hate her.  IMO, this is just a horribly written resurrection for Sara with a side order of Poor Laurel redemption ; The "She Means Well" arc. I really do.

[HighwayFlower]

I can't help but wonder if they are surprised by the backlash. They can't have written it this way intending for people to be disgusted.

They must have thought we would empathize and support it somehow.

[apinknightmare]

I can't help but wonder if they are surprised by the backlash. They can't have written it this way intending for people to be disgusted.

They must have thought we would empathize and support it somehow.

Some people do.

[statsgirl]

They have a pattern of misinterpreting the audience reaction to Laurel and her actions.

 

So why is everyone freaking out about Nyssa? I see no evidence about her dying.

There was no evidence that Sara was going to die. And then 3x01 happened.  This show is a projective test rather than a "follow the evidence".

 

I feel like Nyssa might be safe for now. It's possible they want to keep that option open for Sara over on LoT. Although, saying that, wouldn't Nyssa want to follow her everywhere now that she has Sara back?

I thought they would keep Sara alive to keep that option open (Sara missing, Laurel still gets to suit up looking for her) but they killed her off. I wish I could trust these guys as far as I could throw them, which is very little actually.

 

 

Regarding the preview: Glad that WM said that Thea has her own agenda for going to NP, although I'm confused, because wasn't getting Thea help supposed to be like...part of the actual agenda? 

Thea didn't want to go to Nanda Parbat at all so I imagine Laurel talked her into it by saying "someone there will be able to help you and make you good again."

 

It was interesting watching KL and KC in the Nanda Parbat scene arguing about Sara.  KL is all very quiet and intense, and KC is Loud. And. Pointed. And Intense.

Just me, but I think KL's

 

It seems like I'm in the minority, but I didn't get that Oliver was giving up on Diggle at all? Just that he wasn't going to wait around for Diggle to forgive him and was going to confront him about it?

Oliver has apologized enough.  It's not doing Diggle any good to have all the power in the situation.

 

I think he needs to stop apologizing for what he did. He's apologized and apologized and explained and given Diggle time.  If Diggle doesn't get it now, he never will and they need to figure out the new status quo (is Diggle in?  Is he out?) and move on from that..

[calliope1975]

Unless they throw a major swerve and make Laurel a villain, which would make so much of this make sense

 

I still don't know why this isn't happening. It's been set up over a few seasons and would be perfectly in character. Let's really go Black Canary. It won't be the first time they've gone off-script with other DC characters, and we've already had one Black Canary. Alas...

[AyChihuahua]

I'm thinking this will be a Hulu episode, so I can ff all Laurel scenes.

[Sakura12]

Even with Nyssa dropping some truth bombs on Laurel we know she won't listen. She never listens to anyone but herself. So it doesn't really matter. But I'm just waiting for this storyline to be over so I can have Sara back and watch her show. 

[romantic idiot]

I bet this script is filled with dialog said to Laurel that could have been audience commentary, but Laurel is gonna do Laurel in this episode of That's So Laurel. It's exactly how they wrote Canaries.

 

And going to proven right in the end. *gags*

[AyChihuahua]

Neal McDonough has said DD loves something, and now he's saying Arrow messes with this thing he loves so he goes off on Arrow.  Assuming it's the same "thing," that would imply not Felicity, bc obviously GA/Oliver wouldn't hurt Felicity.  

 

On that note, again, I really don't want him to be her dad.  Not so much bc he's EVOL, but because that would mean he hung out in Vegas for a few years in the late 80s/early 90s, and he hasn't bothered to keep track of his daughter.  I could buy it if Donna seemed to have been in hiding with Felicity, but Donna has definitely not been hiding.  Even if he didn't care he'd have kept track in case her obvious child genius turned into useful adult genius.  

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/706614/neal-mcdonough-arrow-s-new-big-bad-teases-death-destruction-damien-darhk-s-dictatorship-in-season-4

 

Oh, and if the "thing" is Felicity, that would be likely to come up in the next episode when Double Down goes after her.  

Edited October 20, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[looptab]

I just laughed at Laurel caressing the casket. I know they were going for a "she's super-focused and determined and has shut all reason out" kind of daze, but I just laughed and laughed.