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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

Oh, I thought the rationale for the wedding was they wanted to get Nyssa to a place where she would want to kill her father or not make a fuss if her father was killed by Oliver. But yeah, stupid wedding. All the buildup and it didn't even get talked much about after because everybody was focused on the stupidity of pretending they were going to kill most of the cast *sigh*

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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kismet

kismet

I thought the point of the wedding was to make Ras appear EVIL? Because apparently condoning & demanding the death & destruction of one's entire hometown was not evil enough.

 

Let's be honest, the wedding was a publicity stunt to get people all up in arms & ruffle feathers. And it fulfilled the desire to make the Arrow even more like Batman.

 

It was just dumb all around. I'm still pissed that they actually went through with having an actual wedding. It was just wrong.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Okay I'm just going to come out and say it.  When news of Sara's return first hit, I was really happy to hear that CL's time in the Arrowverse was not at an end. She's a brilliant Canary and like Stephen Amell, is good enough at what she does, that it's believable that what you're seeing onscreen is one of the best fighters in the world going head to head with the baddies. A return of that to my screen was welcome. 

 

Since those first heady days, time (and spoilers) has adjusted my perspective and all I can see (and fear) now is more Lance family drama and lots of it. We're going to have to deal with some, or possibly all of the following during Sara's resurrection arc:-

 

  • Who decides to resurrect her? Odds are on LL or QL or both.
  • Did Oliver and the rest of Team Arrow know? If yes, then much discussion...meh
  • If no...the fallout from everyone finding out that she's been resurrected
  • The I-told-you-so after she starts to feel the effects of the Lazarus Pit
  • SL coming to terms with being dead for a year
  • SL coming to terms with LL stealing her life/costume and the whole range of emotions and Lance -sister heavy scenes that is sure to spawn
  • disappointment in LL following in her footsteps,
  • a fight scene where they face off against each other (TPTB are not passing that opportunity up)
  • giving her blessing to LL (saying she was always meant for a mask) and then
  • a side by side sister fight scene to book end everything and add the gloss to how much SL approves of LL's turn as a masked vigilante (aka TPTB hitting us over the head with the subtext that surely anyone who still disapproves of LL becoming BC is surely wrong)
  • SL coming to terms with LL/QL making the decision to resurrect her
  • SL reconciling with dear old dad
  • LL reconciling with dear old dad
  • QL and Oliver dealing with Oliver's role in what happened to SL, which would be welcome except that QL's approach to that issue at the end of s3 disgusted me with his hypocrisy/anger directed solely at Oliver while excusing the role that his own daughter(s) played in the whole debacle. It's a big ole no thanks from me to more of that.

 

Just typing up this list alone got me scared. I'm really not on board with the idea of more Lance family drama but honestly at this point I don't know how we can avoid it. 

 

 

...Well, thanks for the nightmares, @lexicon.

 

:)

 

However, since Legends of Tomorrow starts filming a week from today EXACTLY, they seem to have 403-405 to deal with all this crap, and then it's over?

Yeah, I think this stuff will happen but it will happen in one two episodes tops.  I think Laurel and her dad will be good almost right away.  There was something about Laurel learning from her mistakes and not repeating them so I do think that whatever she does, she will keep her dad in the loop.  So that should remove some drama.  Constantine should also be able to mitigate the extreme end of the LP side effects. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Soooo, have we heard anything about Ray, other than that Felicity will be the one to re-biggen him?  I mean, I haven't heard any buzz whatsoever about his character.  All the LoT talk I've heard centers on Sara, with a little about the hawkpeople and maybe a tiny bit about Victor Garber.  No one seems to be talking about Ray, unless I'm just missing it?

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

We've heard that he and Stein have a previous history (they don't like each other very much) and that will create some conflict. But I can't think of anything other than that.

Edited by Starfish35
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kismet

kismet

Soooo, have we heard anything about Ray, other than that Felicity will be the one to re-biggen him?  I mean, I haven't heard any buzz whatsoever about his character.  All the LoT talk I've heard centers on Sara, with a little about the hawkpeople and maybe a tiny bit about Victor Garber.  No one seems to be talking about Ray, unless I'm just missing it?

Silence is a beautiful thing. :) Besides what Starfish35 said, the only other thing I've heard is that Echo might be involved, but that might be more speculation. Although I feel like it came out during the comic con interviews with WM. Perhaps they are delaying his recovery for budgetary purposes. Part of me wonders if they might what until crossover episode because then they can get Cisco's help. CR & RP I think had the most natural chemistry, so maybe they will capitalize on that bromance. I think Rip Hunter & Savage will be the "A plot" & maybe restoring RP will be the "B plot" of crossover.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The only thing I've read about Ray recently is an article on how ridiculously expensive the Atom suit costs.  

 

Here's everything I've got on Ray from previous spoilers...

-- [...] The mystery of what happened with Palmer (Brandon Routh) is playing out on Arrow. [...] (Hollywood Reporter article, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- 4x06 will answer the question of whether the explosion at Palmer Tech is on the same time line as Oliver & Felicity's journey. (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread)
-- [...] MG: “On Arrow, we’ve got some business [to handle]... Ray didn’t explode in a catastrophic explosion and Sara needs to not be dead.” [...] (EW article, page 18 of Spoilers thread)
-- Ray Palmer will return for at least part of Season 4 of Arrow. (Gamespot video of interview with BR, page 550 of Spoiler Discussion thread; and io9 article, page 67 of Starling City Times thread)
-- The resolution to the question of what happened to Ray after the explosion will be resolved in the earlier episodes of Arrow. (Blastr article, page 65 of Starling City Times thread)
-- Everyone thinks Ray is dead at first, but he's just really small. (LoT First Look Trailer, page 2 of Media thread in LoT forum)
-- Per WM, Felicity is going to be the one that brings Ray back to the show. (IGN video of interview with SA, EBR and WM at SDCC 2015, page 157 of Behind the Mask)
-- Felicity will be instrumental in discovering that Ray managed to shrink himself in the lab acccident that saw an entire floor of PT exploding into his face. (WhatCulture article, page 67 of Starling City Times thread)
-- Per MG, [...] There will be more scenes between Oliver and Ray. (youmademeafan tumblr post, page 581 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
Edited by tv echo
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Sunshine

Sunshine

Soooo, have we heard anything about Ray, other than that Felicity will be the one to re-biggen him? I mean, I haven't heard any buzz whatsoever about his character. All the LoT talk I've heard centers on Sara, with a little about the hawkpeople and maybe a tiny bit about Victor Garber. No one seems to be talking about Ray, unless I'm just missing it?

. A MG tumble post said questions about Ray and explosion would be answered in 4.06
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I wouldn't be surprised if Ray is brought back in 406.  That appears to be a Felicity episode (since Donna's going to be in it) and we're getting close to the crossover event.  Sara comes back in 405, Ray comes back in 406, ?? for 407 and 108/408 is the LoT backdoor pilot

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Was Brandon Routh spotted in Vancouver while Arrow was shooting 401-403? If not, yeah, I'd be inclined to agree Palmer comes back in 406, just in time for the crossover event.

I haven't heard anything about BR being in Vancouver...doesn't mean he wasn't there. I totally could have missed the memo
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Since Arrow footed the cost of the suit (imo to the detriment of some aspects of their own show)... I'm betting they don't feel like footing the cost of the CGI to make him whole again. I hope they find a cheap way to show his small stature in Arrow. They have been using camera tricks & angles with good results for years to show different sizes, I hope they use some of that technique & not just use the most costly option.

 

I'm betting they will find him in the end of A406 - maybe wait until A407. BR may spend a lot of time on greenscreen. Plus the thought of FS carrying a miniature RP around in something is just too funny to pass up. But he won't be fully restored to real size until Flash 108, let the Flash & Crossover budget absorb some of that cost of showing the transition & process.

Edited by kismet
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I'm betting they will find him in the end of A406 - maybe wait until A407. BR may spend a lot of time on greenscreen. Plus the thought of FS carrying a miniature RP around in something is just too funny to pass up. But he won't be fully restored to real size until Flash 108, let the Flash & Crossover budget absorb some of that cost of showing the transition & process.

I could see finding him in 406 and bringing him back in 407...or maybe 208.  Any of those could work.  

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kismet

kismet

Is that real or fanart? Because it really looks like he just stole Magneto's helmet. What is it with this team & making really bad helmets?? No offense meant to Magneto's helmet, I think it works for him. But this look on Diggle, just ugh no :(

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Tallis

Tallis

Why did they bother giving him a helmet if it doesn't cover his face? I get that it would make him virtually unidentifiable to facial recognition or whatever, but any criminal that sees him up close CAN STILL MAKE OUT HIS FACE.

Presumably it has the same magic concealment properties as Oliver's eye mask and not-exactly-hiding-his-face-either hood.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

He has a chin strap and everything. Poor Diggle. :(


Presumably it has the same magic concealment properties as Oliver's eye mask and not-exactly-hiding-his-face-either hood.

 

At least Oliver has something on his face that obscures some of his features. This just makes his peripheral vision shitty and people can still flat-out see his whole face.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

So they changed the Judge Dredd helmet to Magneto's? Did they get a new costume designer? If that's the case bring back the judge dredd visor. 

 

That looks so stupid. I feel bad for DR to have to wear that thing. 

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BumpSetSpike

BumpSetSpike

Oh no, no, no.  Just say "no" John Diggle.  That is just horrible!  I wasn't all that thrilled when we found out that Diggle was getting a "costume" (mask), but I thought if it is was cool and Diggle-ish it could work.  

This is just bad...can't wait to see how he gets this one on screen.

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kismet

kismet

I feel like they should have just done a full mouth visor like a hockey or motorcycle helmet. And even that is a bad suggestion, but just trying to brainstorm something better.

 

Im with Catrox14 - #DiggleDeservesBetter

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catrox14

catrox14

Okay, my head!canon to stop from melting down is this is his first stupid costume. It's impractical and something bad happens to John that forces Felicity to enlist Star Labs to design something better and they come up with the ring and the Green Lantern suit. And he changes his name and becomes John Stewart and I don't care what they say about the Green Lantern not showing up.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Ruby25

Ruby25

(edited)

Frankly, I don't see why Diggle has to have a costume. I mean, he could be the one guy who really doesn't want one, couldn't he? Or hell, just give him a ski mask or something when he's forced to mask his identity. He could be the one cool guy who refuses to wear an elaborate outfit.

Edited by Ruby25
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catrox14

catrox14

Frankly, I don't see why Diggle has to have a costume. I mean, he could be the one guy who really doesn't want one, couldn't he? Or hell, just give him a ski mask or something when he's forced to mask his identity. He could be the one cool guy who refuses to wear an elaborate outfit.

 

Diggle has been wearing a balacava and that's just not sufficient protection when he's out in the field so a costume or something is fine. But this helmet is STOOPID.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Frankly, I don't see why Diggle has to have a costume. I mean, he could be the one guy who really doesn't want one, couldn't he? Or hell, just give him a ski mask or something when he's forced to mask his identity. He could be the one cool guy who refuses to wear an elaborate outfit.

 

He has worn a ski mask, and I gotta say I'm glad he's not doing that anymore. I don't mind him having a costume necessarily - he'd be stupid not to, since he's got a wife and kid and needs to protect both his body and his identity. It's just that the helmet especially looks stupid. 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

All I wanted was for his jacket and maybe his pants to be Kevlar-lined like Oliver's for protection and yes, something better than a balaclava to conceal his face. But this, this is utterly ridiculous. The chin strap looks stupid. The design doesn't really conceal his face that well. #DiggleDeservesBetter

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quarks

quarks

Hopefully I will like this much better when I see it in action, but so far, I'm not loving it. Specific issues:

 

1. The chin strap is really distracting in this image. I guess something needs to help keep the helmet on, but it's a slightly different color than the helmet, so it's throwing me off a bit.

 

2. As others have said, PERIPHERAL VISION. I like the idea of a helmet, but one that still lets the guy see.

 

3. Hopefully the helmet has some sort of cool eyewear protection thing that can come down to conceal his identity, because wow, that doesn't do it.

 

4. Though to be fair this is on the same show where Laurel couldn't recognize her own sister's pretty distinctive chin from ten inches away, so, let the handwaving commence.

 

I kinda like the jacket, though.  Just hoping this won't conceal Diggle's arms for the entire season. I have needs, show. 

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I just don't think I like the current costume designer's instincts or taste. I haven't liked any new looks, other than Oliver's 308 update. Laurel's BC costume, the new Green Arrow, the ATOM suit, now this... And it's a bummer because Dig's not a high-enough-priority character to get continual adjustments, like GA or BC, so...we're probably just stuck with this dumb thing forever.

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kismet

kismet

That helmet is so awful. I know a lot of people complained about the buckles on Laurel's costume, but this...why?

You're making me reconsider my stance on the buckles. :( Sadliness :( The costume dept has FAILED this TV show.

 

That's not identity concealment. It does look an awful lot like Magneto's helmet

It's part of their new trend in cosplay as id concealment. OQ is a turtle. Dig is Magneto. LL is a dominatrix. And RP got confused & bought a ironman/robo cop mash-up. At least TQ just stole a cool looking outfit. So now everyone will just think a PartyCity had a sale on costumes & a party just let out.

 

Frankly, I don't see why Diggle has to have a costume. I mean, he could be the one guy who really doesn't want one, couldn't he? Or hell, just give him a ski mask or something when he's forced to mask his identity. He could be the one cool guy who refuses to wear an elaborate outfit.

Never thought I'd long for the days of the ski mask. But I'd take that ID concealment over this any day. This is just bad choice.

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