Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Danny Franks]

I think it's supposed to be Ray?  Doesn't Felicity "get him out of the office?"  

 

I think I remember a spoiler on here where someone asked where Roy was living, and Guggenheim said they'd find out. But man, it would be funny if even Guggenheim got confused between Roy and Ray. That would kind of say it all about his attention to detail.

[Carrie Ann]

No, that spoiler was about Roy--someone asked MG if we'd ever see Roy's apartment, and he said we'd already seen it in previous seasons, but we'd see it again in 316.

[Angel12d]

I can't remember where I saw it but the visor on Ray's helmet apparently turns black so no one can see his face when he's in the suit, so I don't think Ray will out himself as the ATOM. 

[Hook75]

I am starting to think if there is an Atom spin-off that Felicity goes to that show. EBR gets to be billed as the top female cast member and it clears the way for KC to return to the main female lead on Arrow, which is all the EPs seem to care about this season.

 

That is my biggest fear!

[statsgirl]

This thread is funnier than the Clock Tower one.

 

I think it's going to be hard enough to see outside of the Atom's suit without turning the face plate black.  Maybe if they acknowledge how dangerous Starling.. er Star City is, Ray can identify himself.

 

Wasn't 219 going to be The Flash backdoor pilot?  Then they got lucky and the show was picked up for a pilot from 209/210.  So I think they're going to try to make 319 a backdoor pilot for the Atom, with a lead-in from the Flash episode.  I don't know how many new characters they can introduce though because both Starling and Central City have their own superheros already so Ray is going to have to go to Coast City for his base or it gets too messy, and Coast City will have it's own characters.

 

Maybe the Arrow EPs are delusional if they think they have built enough of a superhero show with Thea, Laurel and Roy now that they can ship EBR off to the Atom permanently. If so, I think they're delusional.  And also that there are enough people who favor Olicity,including reviewers like Robert Doughtery and Alan Sepinwall, that it will be hard to switch to Raylicity.

 

 

I am leaning toward the possibility that the gamechanger of Ep 18 is Oliver (and maybe everyone) having their cover blown publicly. It would certainly change the dynamic of the show, but I'm also not sure how that would work for someone like Oliver--who will one day run QC again, according to The Flash. One approach I could imagine is if they arrest Oliver and he won't talk, and then Roy and possibly others put on the suit and also get arrested, and the whole thing is like, how do you pin anything on one person if you don't know who did what? Then after the dust settles, going forward, Oliver could always just be like *wink-wink* I have no idea who the Arrow is, but he seems like he's doing good for the city, so I support him. It could just be like a known secret. Does that make any sense?

 

It's possible.  The Scarlet Pimpernel did it better though, in 1903.

 

If Felicity is working with Ray at the time, maybe she escapes because Quentin doesn't have any evidence on her.  I"m probably just delusional though, thinking Felicity is still an important part of Team Arrow.

 

- everyone, including Ray, thinks Felicity is on her way to join him in CC but she's actually been kidnapped by Slade, who escaped his brief stint with ARGUS and got Felicity to remove the implanted bomb from his body

- Felicity only agrees to help him with that because he threatens to kill Oliver if she doesn't

- we don't know if Felicity will be on Arrow, the Flash or the Atom come Season 4 - maybe she'll be on ALL OF THEM

 

- Oliver remains miserable because the show cannot let him be happy for more then 7 minutes at a time. Or in an episode

- He gets money from Walter (unseen, of course) to get QC back from Palmer, who sells at rock bottom, because he's so happy he got the girl, the suit and is ready to be the big fish in another pond

- He thinks Felicity is happy with Ray so he resolves to be Arrow/OQ without her; he's convinced Felicity never loved him because she never said the words (MG will insist she does in a series of snarky Tumblr Q&As)

- Laurel is now his right hand ally (before she goes off to train in the summer)

- final scene is of Oliver in the lair, alone, miserable. He sees one of the computer screens flicker and there's an image of Felicity, laying still (asleep? dead? unconscious?) on a bed at an unknown location; he gets a call from a modulated voice that says "She's mine now" - it's NOT an Australian accent, though

- We get a final look at Oliver's angry, brooding face with clenched jaw

I laughed all through this, writersblock, but sadly, it's still better than what I expect to get on the show.

 

I just want to say how much I love the idea of Slade kidnapping Felicity as the cliff-hanger.  Just as long as they don't find her through the summer, I don't want that to appear in the 3.5 comics too.

[calliope1975]

If I was writing this show, then I would have Ray be a tragic example of why very few people are cut out to be vigilantes. I would have him be earnest in his desire to save the city, and to devote resources to it and build his silly suit, and perhaps have some initial success. But then he comes up against a villain he can't beat with technology, and ends up being killed. It would give the show some resonance that the needless deaths of women haven't, it would put Oliver himself in a brighter light because he's one of the few people who can do this successfully, and it would give them the chance to show a villain (perhaps Ra's himself) as a real danger to be feared. But I don't write this show, and the people who do want all the masked heroes they can possibly scavenge out of DC's bargain bin.

 

That would be interesting and relevant so no, we won't ever see it. But I really like the idea. We haven't really seen a vigilante stumble - they skipped over Roy's training and while they keep saying Laurel's has a long way too go, it looks to me like she's pretty proficient. Ted quit the life though his one outing against Brick got him comatose or wherever they shipped him off to. They keep saying how hard it is but continue to show us how easy it is to become a mask. Well, unless you don't have a comics name in which case you are support or the black driver.

 

And they can't even say it would be too dark because this show has become nothing but grimdark and depressing. 

[BkWurm1]

Does anyone care about Palmer? I'm not paying too much attention to the media coverage this show gets, but I get the impression that there's been little to no enthusiasm about The Atom. If I'm right on that, then why exactly would anyone think the guy is likely to get a spinoff? The CW doesn't have that many shows as it is, are they really going to want to fill half their slate with middling-to-bad superhero shows that have a very limited shelf-life?

 

I suspect they think that people will get excited once the suit goes into action. 

[NumberCruncher]

I suspect they think that people will get excited once the suit goes into action.

Well it worked for Laurel. Donning superhero garb seems to mesmerize Arrow's audience, regardless of past history.

[pootlus]

How bad has it got that even the return of Nyssa can't stir any excitement or joy, because I just know she's going to be on Laurel prop duty.

 

The best I can hope for is that Nyssa takes Laurel away with her to Nanda Parbat for training, and Laurel tragically gets frostbite because of her fingerless gloves and gangrene sets in.

[Hook75]

 

 

Can I have 5 minutes with Oliver like this before they break free? He looks yummy!

[ban1o]

lol I hope that hair on Willa is just a wig.

Edited February 21, 2015 by ban1o

[Genki]

Based on Willa's wig (I hope it's a wig), I guess they might really be doing an "I'm am Spartacus" moment for the Arrow.

 

I would assume that Lance knows Oliver is the Arrow and is hunting him down and Thea, Roy & others (?) are leaving false trails for the cops.

[kismet]

The thing with shipping [heh] Felicity to an ATOM spin-off is it makes the entire thing they did with tying Oliver's humanity to his love for her completely null and void. So that would basically be the equivalent of stripping Arrow of its heart, and stripping Oliver of his soul. And if this is the journey from Pilot Episode robot killer to a warmer, fun-having, emotionally healthy closer-to-the-comics Green Arrow, then they just can't afford to do that.

Id like to think that was true, but maybe its because Im sick... or maybe just really tired. But didn't the EPs say they are always looking to do what would make the Arrow suffer the most? I mean rip out his heart for S4, only have EBR guest or little star on Arrow, but full time the Atom. It would allow them to go very dark, which is what I think they really desire to do. The wanna go dark, this is their opportunity. They don't have to make the green arrow just yet... I really wonder what their time line is for actually making him GA? Plus what better way to stretch out the star-crossed lovers theme than to stretch them across 2 shows? I also wonder if DC comics will ever way in and start mandating certain character beats. In darker moments of speculation, I think it is only a matter of time before DC tells them to kill Felicity & Diggle and get back to comic canon.

 

Im not saying I want this, in fact I want the complete opposite... but its out of our hands

Edited February 21, 2015 by kismet

[loki567]

Is there any proof or even rumor that Felicity would be part of an Atom show? I remember very similar, "They sending her to the Flash," panic when all the talk about Barry and Felicity chemistry in early season two. The show's very guilty of "pimping" out Felicity to get their other superhero characters over with the audience, but I think there's no way they're moving her away from Oliver.

Edited February 21, 2015 by loki567

[CabotCove]

I don't know how many new characters they can introduce though because both Starling and Central City have their own superheros already so Ray is going to have to go to Coast City for his base or it gets too messy, and Coast City will have it's own characters.

 

or Ivy Town.

 

Does anyone care about Palmer? I'm not paying too much attention to the media coverage this show gets, but I get the impression that there's been little to no enthusiasm about The Atom. If I'm right on that, then why exactly would anyone think the guy is likely to get a spinoff? The CW doesn't have that many shows as it is, are they really going to want to fill half their slate with middling-to-bad superhero shows that have a very limited shelf-life?

 

The CW seems to be extending to summer, they just renewed many lowly rated show for next season. No cancellations and they are picking up a few pilots.  They have also been doing 13 episode shows for a while now. And yes there are plenty of people who care and are excited about Palmer/Atom, yours truly included. There is a whole fandom out there, outside of this forum. And I agree that there maybe much more once he suits up. I don't think there are any plans for a spin off yet, but if a show with 0.2 in demo can get renewed, then the Atom show cant possibly do much worse. It will have a boost from Arrow and the Flash, Arrow has shown it definitely works. Though I don't know if I want an Atom show, half of my heart is saying Firestorm.

 

Is there any proof or even rumor that Felicity would be part of an Atom show? I remember very similar, "They sending her to the Flash," panic when all the talk about Barry and Felicity chemistry in early season two.

You may just have answered your own question.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Conell

[ban1o]

Is there any proof or even rumor that Felicity would be part of an Atom show? I remember very similar, "They sending her to the Flash," panic when all the talk about Barry and Felicity chemistry in early season two. The show's very guilty of "pimping" out Felicity to get their other superhero characters over with the audience, but I think there's no way they're moving her away from Oliver.O

It`s funny I  remember an interview with Emily and Colton. I think it was from their tour in Spain and Colton was saying that he initially thought that Emily might move to The Flash. So I wonder if it was something that they actually considered. 

Edited February 21, 2015 by ban1o

[looptab]

Where was that pic of Willa with short hair posted originally? I don't see it on any of her accounts or Colton's. I wonder if they had to cancel it because it was too spoilery.

[kismet]

Where was that pic of Willa with short hair posted originally? I don't see it on any of her accounts or Colton's. I wonder if they had to cancel it because it was too spoilery.

It made me wonder if people were right in speculating that multiple members of Team Arrow will be running around in the green hood in 318. I hope its just a wig or styling trick cuz I don't think it looks that great on her. But I do think it would be a good disguise. It would be kinda cool to have all these arrows running around, esp if some of them might be acting on the LOA & not doing good things.

[jay741982]

The thought of them killing Felicity would be so fucking Dumb, so would them not putting Felicity and Oliver together. The thought of Ray and Felicity being together long term makes me ill. I'd rather see her with Barry Cisco Eddie Caitlin or Thea before Ray. Arrow Needs Felicity.

It`s funny I  remember an interview with Emily and Colton. I think it was from their tour in Spain and Colton was saying that he initially thought that Emily might move to The Flash. So I wonder if it was something that they actually considered.

Colton has also done some trolling so...

Is there any proof or even rumor that Felicity would be part of an Atom show? I remember very similar, "They sending her to the Flash," panic when all the talk about Barry and Felicity chemistry in early season two. The show's very guilty of "pimping" out Felicity to get their other superhero characters over with the audience, but I think there's no way they're moving her away from Oliver.

Same here plus IMO it would be more of a show killer

[Belinea]

There was a video that EBR did with SA and RA last year. One question was whether she would switch to the Flash and RA pointed out they would not be letting her go and she said something like "Yeah, they are not letting me go" So to me it seemed that she was pretty sure she'd stay on Arrow and since MG confirmed she'd be in S4 I doubt she will change shows (at least not yet) I think even they realize that EBR brings something to their show (Arrow) that cannot easily be replaced or replicated. She is necessary as the one light character. Even small scene with her get recognition and if she is not in episodes they become really dark. But that would be just my opinion, at the end of the day they obviously do whatever they want. 

[tv echo]

Now that the EPs have finished copying Nolan's Batman movies (after "The Climb" and "Uprising"), I guess they're now moving on to copying the Iron Man movies.  Next they have to copy the Thor movies with a DC character wielding lightning - oh wait, isn't Deathbolt coming in 3x19?

[catrox14]

It made me wonder if people were right in speculating that multiple members of Team Arrow will be running around in the green hood in 318. I hope its just a wig or styling trick cuz I don't think it looks that great on her. But I do think it would be a good disguise. It would be kinda cool to have all these arrows running around, esp if some of them might be acting on the LOA & not doing good things.

I'm thinking this how they move the show from Arrow to Justice League. Putting everyone in an Arrow costume takes away from Oliver, then the city is safe and no one cares anymore nor will the audience who the Arrow is. (well excluding this viewer because I do care... A lot)

He just becomes one of the pantheon and It becomes an ensemble cast and more of a anthology show with a different Superhero story every week unrelated to Oliver Queen. And I'll bet we don't see Oliver deemed The Green Arrow until the penultimate episode of the series altogether.

Edited February 21, 2015 by catrox14

[quarks]

Is there any proof or even rumor that Felicity would be part of an Atom show? I remember very similar, "They sending her to the Flash," panic when all the talk about Barry and Felicity chemistry in early season two. The show's very guilty of "pimping" out Felicity to get their other superhero characters over with the audience, but I think there's no way they're moving her away from Oliver.

 

At this point there isn't even proof that an Atom show is coming. The answer to this seems to be a solid "Maybe."  The fan reaction to Ray so far has been muted -- Conell's right that some fans are excited, and the suit may very well get more fans excited - but the Atom is still an obscure comics character who hasn't even been in continuous publication, and the show hasn't really let Ray Palmer do anything really cool yet, apart from showing Felicity some suit designs and getting involved in one small fight in "Midnight City."

 

I think this is going to depend on the reactions to the suit in the next episode and how cool it looks once we see it in motion, and reactions to Ray over on Flash. It's very possible that the fan reaction will be positive enough to greenlight the spinoff. I just don't think we can predict that right now.

[Morrigan2575]

That spin-off would be mid-seaon replacement at the earliest right? I mean they could go with a spin-off without pilot/backdoor pilot etc. But that's a bit unsual for a character that's been only mildly received.

I like BR but I don't like Ray all that much. However, I actually found the Ray/Felicity interaction in the Flash Comics fun. I'm not sure if it's the writing or acting (both?) On Arrow but there's something that's not clicking.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

Well, they could potentially put together an Atom show in time for the Fall season if the CW gives them the go ahead by May. Potentially. It would be tricky, though, so I think a midseason or summer replacement is more likely if - and it's a big if - the CW or another network greenlights it.

 

Thus the issue with writing Ray Palmer through the end of this season - the show genuinely doesn't know what will happen to him.

 

Despite my criticisms, I have liked some of the Felicity/Ray interactions - when the show just lets the two of them be funny, it's great. I liked the helicopter bit, for instance. I just don't know if this is enough to launch a spinoff.

[apinknightmare]

If there is an Atom spin-off, I wish they would move Felicity over there. It would kill half of the reasons I watch Arrow in one fell swoop, and then I could probably drop it. I could just catch up on what Oliver and Diggle were up to via recaps for as long as I still cared to know.

 

Sadly though, I don't think there's a chance of them fully moving Felicity over to an Atom show if one ever exists. Regardless of what demo the CW really cares about, regardless of which ultimate endgame romance they have in mind for Oliver, Felicity herself and Oliver and Felicity's relationship especially garner so much free buzz for the show that every money man from the bottom of the chain to the top would have to lose their mind to let her go from Arrow. 

[Carrie Ann]

If that is a wig on Willa, then she should definitely go for that cut someday because I think it's perfect on her.

 

Anyone know when they start filming 319?

Edited February 21, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Morrigan2575]

If that's not a wig on Willa, then she should definitely go for that cut someday because I think it's perfect on her.

 

Anyone know when they start filming 319?

Cut looks great on her but i'm not fond of the color.

My first thought was Speedy since Mia is a blonde in the comics.

[Angel12d]

I'm trying to think of all the reasons why Thea would cut her hair and I can't think of any. Theories?

[apinknightmare]

I'm trying to think of all the reasons why Thea would cut her hair and I can't think of any. Theories?

 

To disguise herself from the League or the SCPD maybe?

Or it could be that she was in the makeup trailer screwing around with wigs and that hairstyle has absolutely nothing to do with anything that's happening on the show. 

[Angel12d]

To disguise herself from the League or the SCPD maybe?

Or it could be that she was in the makeup trailer screwing around with wigs and that hairstyle has absolutely nothing to do with anything that's happening on the show. 

 

Lol, I couldn't even think of the most obvious one. But yes, disguise is likely, although she still looks recognizable to me.

 

Right now I'm gonna say she was just messing around. 

 

Slow news day or what.

[Orion]

The wig that Willa is wearing looks like the hair from Oliver's TMZ (under a beanie) hair.  So probably just playing around in the makeup trailer.

 

I was rewatching a couple scenes from The Return, does anyone think it's possible that Thea is going to go evil? Slade has two taunts at Oliver, bringing up Felicity and that Thea is lost and asking how many people Oliver can loose before he isn't Oliver Queen anymore.

 

I'm wondering if the writers mentioning those two specific people is foreshadowing, especially with some of the spoilers about the hospital scene coming up or if will end up being a "corrupt the ones he loves" thing where it doesn't go anywhere.

 

Oliver looses Felicity to his maybes/injury/Ray and looses Thea to darkness?

[Angel12d]

The wig that Willa is wearing looks like the hair from Oliver's TMZ (under a beanie) hair.  So probably just playing around in the makeup trailer.

 

I was rewatching a couple scenes from The Return, does anyone think it's possible that Thea is going to go evil? Slade has two taunts at Oliver, bringing up Felicity and that Thea is lost and asking how many people Oliver can loose before he isn't Oliver Queen anymore.

 

I'm wondering if the writers mentioning those two specific people is foreshadowing, especially with some of the spoilers about the hospital scene coming up or if will end up being a "corrupt the ones he loves" thing where it doesn't go anywhere.

 

Oliver looses Felicity to his maybes/injury/Ray and looses Thea to darkness?

 

It does feel like foreshadowing, particularly when the order of those people Slade mentioned were the order of his 'flashes' as Oliver was dying in 309.

 

I previously wondered if Thea was going to go evil and that's the twist. I'm not so sure anymore but when Oliver told Thea the truth about him being the Arrow, it all felt too easy to me. But I don't know if that's just me feeling anticlimactic after expecting more of a reaction?

 

Of course we could just be giving the writers too much credit and everything is going to be as predictable as it has been so far.

[apinknightmare]

I thought there was a good chance of Thea going evil before, but now I don't really see it. She's purposely pushing away from Malcolm and she's angry at him for turning her into a killer. She's upset about what she did to Sara and even though she had a reason and an opportunity to kill Slade, she didn't. Granted, that could be a set up for some kind of "shocking" twist and I wouldn't put anything past MG, but I think Slade was just screwing with Oliver with his mention of Thea and also with Felicity. 

 

Although I do think Oliver is definitely going to lose Felicity to Ray for a bit so-to-speak, as much as he can "lose" her when he had a hand in pushing her away. I'm beginning to think though that whatever reason Felicity/Mama Smoak are in the hospital is probably not anything major. If it's anything like the Green Arrow "Public Enemy" storyline, maybe MS and Felicity are in the hospital for some kind of small thing when a doctor starts killing patients and Felicity does something to try to help? Maybe she asks MS to hide? That could be one of the reasons why she doesn't have any scenes with anyone else. 

Edited February 21, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Orion]

I'm going back and forth with Thea as evil. On one hand I would like it because at least someone isn't marching lock step with their comic book destiny. Honestly it is just not that interesting to know where everyone is going once I hear the characters name. But on the hand loosing Thea would be terrible for Oliver (so that's probably what they will do).

 

I was also thinking that there were two files, one for Oliver and one for Thea. I'm guessing Oliver will suddenly remember the one for Thea and will conveniently be an explanation from Robert about her parentage and how it never mattered to him and that will allow Thea to make peace with the lies.

 

I agree with you Angel12d that the writers have lost my trust so I'm not counting on half of this stuff leading anywhere.

[apinknightmare]

Thea already knew that Robert knew she wasn't his and didn't care - Oliver told her that last season. I suppose it might be comforting to hear it directly from him, but still..retread. Ugh. And I'd have to call shenanigans on Oliver not being curious enough to know what his father wanted to say to his sister, so yeah, that probably will happen.

 

I wish this season would just end already. 

[statsgirl]

Orion, Robert's file telling Thea he loves her anyway would be just the sort of back-patting these EPs would do, and it wouldn't make sense (as usual) because how could Robert know that Thea knew about Malcolm being her bio-dad?

 

I think the hair is Willa playing around, although maybe when Lance goes after the whole Arrow crew, Thea needs to disguise herself to hide.  I guess they would have to close Verdant.  Again.

That spin-off would be mid-seaon replacement at the earliest right? I mean they could go with a spin-off without pilot/backdoor pilot etc. But that's a bit unsual for a character that's been only mildly received.

I like BR but I don't like Ray all that much. However, I actually found the Ray/Felicity interaction in the Flash Comics fun. I'm not sure if it's the writing or acting (both?) On Arrow but there's something that's not clicking.

I think a lot of the problems this season could have been avoided if they hadn't been trying to run three storylines at the same time:  Laurel becoming the Black Canary (and to some extent Roy into Arsenal); a new character (Ray) that they are attempting to spin-off; and Malcolm/Ra's/LoA. 

 

I understand why they wanted to see if they can get a new DCU show on the air next season, and they wanted to make Laurel the BC this year for whatever reason but the two at the same time has short-changed both, just as Roy was short-changed last year in the middle of Slade/mirakuru/Sara.  I think if they had spent more time on Ray, integrated him with more characters than just Felicity (I wouldn't even mind if he went to see Laurel the lawyer) and written the scenes with Felicity better instead either being 1. stalkery or 2. always there when she's crying, I think the character might have been better received by viewers other than those mesmerized by the suit.  

 

I was rewatching a couple scenes from The Return, does anyone think it's possible that Thea is going to go evil? Slade has two taunts at Oliver, bringing up Felicity and that Thea is lost and asking how many people Oliver can loose before he isn't Oliver Queen anymore.

Berlanti (?) said  SDCC that some characters will reach their comic book destinies and others won't  So far, it looks like everyone has.  I was hoping it would be Laurel who wouldn't but that seems not to be the case, and Ray is definitely becoming the Atom after all that money they spent on the suit.  The only person left not to is Thea.

 

I wish this season would just end already. 

That's sad.  Me too, or at least give me some O/D/F back again. All the spoilers still have them split up.  I understand the EPs desire to go beyond the O/D/F golden team but nothing else they're giving us has been as good.

 

MG is at the Long Beach con this weekend, right?   Will we get any spoilers?

[apinknightmare]

MG is at the Long Beach con this weekend, right?   Will we get any spoilers?

 

Unfortunately, probably none that we want to know, haha.

Edited February 21, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

Theres not enough evidence or spoilers to indicate which way Thea is going to go. But I do think her going evil, is a strong possibility. Its also why I thought she might be someone that they put in the LP, because it would be the easiest way for them to make her go bad and also the easiest way to get her to be good again when the aftereffects of the LP wear off, 

 

I also think her & LL are gonna be the ones to send MM off to NP. And that is why LL takes the reveal so well. It also could explain why OQ feels the need to go back & get him as it will mess with their plan. I dont foresee MM volunteering to send himself there to save anyone, least of all his daughter whom he already put directly in the LOA crosshairs intentionally.

[SmallScreenDiva]

What does Laurel know about Sara's murder at this point? She doesn't know about Thea, right? Does she know about Malcolm? I can't remember ...

 

I keep going back to that photo Paul Blackthorne posted of Oliver, Roy and Laurel and I'm wondering (and maybe dreaming and hoping and praying) if maybe it's Laurel who hangs up her suit and decides she can help more a lawyer (stick with the catch them, i cook them scenario). That, or she's the one who goes bad. The phrase "touched by darkness" has been said in reference to both Thea and Laurel (I'm ignoring the writers' ridiculous "light" reference a couple eps ago). Thea seems to be actively trying to move the opposite direction, while Laurel has that hunger, fire, whatever that can easily be turned into rage, anger.

[apinknightmare]

So, Laurel and Thea turn Malcolm over to Ra's without running this by Oliver first (of course, because otherwise he'd be able to tell them why they can't do that - hello, video), and they must tell Ra's (or Nyssa, I guess, if she's the intermediary) that Malcolm killed Sara himself to keep Thea out of it, because neither one of them know about the video. Then Oliver has to go to Nanda Parbat to get Malcolm on the off chance that Malcolm will be shitty enough to show Ra's the video of a drugged-up Thea shooting Sara full of arrows (because let's face it, he probably is). Even though Ra's is surely smart enough to wonder how it got caught on video since someone would've had to have been standing there to do it - because surely he wouldn't believe Thea was dumb enough to videotape such a thing herself?  

 

The stupid might actually hurt me. Like...physical pain.

What does Laurel know about Sara's murder at this point? She doesn't know about Thea, right? Does she know about Malcolm? I can't remember ...

 

She doesn't know about Thea or Malcolm. Oliver's kept all of it from her and asked Thea to do the same.

Edited February 21, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

The Stupid, It Hurts might actually be the tag line for this season.

 

Althought the only explanation for Oliver trying to save MM is if he's afraid Malcolm will show Ra's the video.  (Too bad Ra's was all "whatever, Sara's dead" in ep 4.)  Should have asked Felicity to scrub those recordings when you had the chance, Oliver.

 

I don't think they can make Laurel go bad at this point and survive the loss of viewers.  Besides the viewers who originally wanted Laurel to be BC right away, and still think GA/BC is endgame romantically, I think substantial number are happy that Laurel finally has a purpose on the show, and see her more sympathetically as she's dealing with Sara's death.

[Chaser]

Laurel just kind of accepted she wasn't going to find out who killed Sara and that was that. She put more effort into finding stuff on Blood then her own sister's killer. She left everything to Team Arrow, who then found out and didn't tell her anything. This goes under the 'Why does Laurel want anything to do with Oliver again?' list I have going.

 

I thought Thea was going to start out the season bad. I thought it would be interesting, but know I want Oliver and Thea to stick together. 

[apinknightmare]

Should have asked Felicity to scrub those recordings when you had the chance, Oliver.

 

This is actually the only thing I don't have a problem with with regard to this convoluted storyline. Malcolm could have any number of copies of that video on random USBs hidden in random locations - there's no way they could ever be sure they had destroyed every single copy of it. I'm sure that's not the reason why Felicity hasn't tried though - I'm sure she's just being plot stupid. 

[KirkB]

If I recall correctly, in the episode where Nyssa came back looking for Sara they found out Malcolm was still running around and everyone including Laurel assumed he was the one who killed Sara. She and Diggle were perfectly happy to let Nyssa kill him. But by the end of the episode Oliver had become convinced he wasn't involved (whoops) and Laurel just accepted it. So as far as we know, she still has no idea who killed Sara. The funny thing is, when Oliver told Thea what Malcolm had made her do it occurred to me that now Laurel was the only one who was being denied a significant portion of the plot, but after the way she's treated Quentin I'm kind of fine with that.

Edited February 21, 2015 by KirkB

[Angel12d]

Saying that not everyone will reach their comic destinies by the end of the season is throwing me because who else is there aside from Laurel and Ray? Technically we don't know if Thea has a comic counterpart, do we? Unless I've missed something. I know there have been guesses but it seems a bit ambiguous to me. Laurel already is BC and Ray is slowly becoming the ATOM. I think it would be realistic for Ray to realize that he's maybe unprepared to be a hero, and then goes off elsewhere never to be seen again, especially as his suit has no place on Arrow. That would actually make sense to me. But there's no way Laurel will hang up her suit by the end of this season. Not after everything they've ruined to make her happen.

 

 

I wish this season would just end already. 

 

 

Me too. I'm so over it. I just want all the episodes to air already so I know what happens and I can cut ties. It's actually a chore to get through an episode now and I have nothing to look forward to. 

Edited February 21, 2015 by Angel12d

[Chaser]

I have Star Trek: Voyager playing in the background and in the episode Janeway makes an alliance with the Borg as a means to an end. One of the arguments used against this play is the Scorpion & Fox parable. Malcolm is totally the Scorpion.

 

In regards to some of these story lines and what was hinted at by the EPs, it wouldn't surprise me if they had a plan and then tweaked it when they realized they love writing Masks. Everyone but Diggle, Felicity and Lance is probably getting a mask and keeping it.

 

I think Laurel is going to find out about Thea in this next episode. In contrast to Lance's justified anger, Laurel is going to be super compassionate and understanding.   It would fit in with the spoilers about Laurel having a surprising reaction to Thea and Oliver and Laurel having a pretty good scene.

[Orion]

What does Laurel know about Sara's murder at this point? She doesn't know about Thea, right? Does she know about Malcolm? I can't remember ...

 

I keep going back to that photo Paul Blackthorne posted of Oliver, Roy and Laurel and I'm wondering (and maybe dreaming and hoping and praying) if maybe it's Laurel who hangs up her suit and decides she can help more a lawyer (stick with the catch them, i cook them scenario). That, or she's the one who goes bad. The phrase "touched by darkness" has been said in reference to both Thea and Laurel (I'm ignoring the writers' ridiculous "light" reference a couple eps ago). Thea seems to be actively trying to move the opposite direction, while Laurel has that hunger, fire, whatever that can easily be turned into rage, anger.

 

They could have Laurel hang up the mask and go back to the DA's office if Quentin dies (which is going to happen) and they pretend a ADA job is actually like being chief of police, which would work because they have shown no indication of knowing what that job includes so far.

 

The Stupid, It Hurts might actually be the tag line for this season.

 

Althought the only explanation for Oliver trying to save MM is if he's afraid Malcolm will show Ra's the video.  (Too bad Ra's was all "whatever, Sara's dead" in ep 4.)  Should have asked Felicity to scrub those recordings when you had the chance, Oliver.

 

I don't think they can make Laurel go bad at this point and survive the loss of viewers.  Besides the viewers who originally wanted Laurel to be BC right away, and still think GA/BC is endgame romantically, I think substantial number are happy that Laurel finally has a purpose on the show, and see her more sympathetically as she's dealing with Sara's death.

 

I haven't seen a lot of people liking Laurel. I've seen people deciding to stop talking about her out of exhaustion and others saying she's better but they still want her gone.  And going by the fact that the first time BC was mentioned on screen they still couldn't manage a trend for it I still think there is a lot of apathy out there for that character.

 

ITA agree with your point above statsgirl that cast is over bloated and that's why a lot of characters are not resonating with viewers. Add to your list Maseo and Katana who's story is interesting now but still feels shoved into plots and underdeveloped.

[apinknightmare]

I think Laurel is going to find out about Thea in this next episode. In contrast to Lance's justified anger, Laurel is going to be super compassionate and understanding.   It would fit in with the spoilers about Laurel having a surprising reaction to Thea and Oliver and Laurel having a pretty good scene.

 

I wonder what "pretty good" is in this instance. Because Laurel SHOULD be pissed that he hid yet ANOTHER thing from her AND that she was right about Malcolm all along and he convinced her not to do away with him or let Nyssa do away with him. I expect her to be compassionate toward Thea since it seems like Thea goes to her voluntarily, and Laurel isn't a monster, so she'll realize Thea wasn't responsible for what she did. If she's even remotely nice to Oliver about it, man...I don't know. If she thanks him from keeping her from killing Malcolm when she had a chance or something like that...naw. 

[Chaser]

I don't think Thea is the one who turns in Malcolm. I think its Laurel. She probably tells Nyssa when they talk about Lance. Why would Oliver try and save Malcolm for Thea if Thea is the one who did it in the first place? If he tries to throw Thea under the bus, Nyssa would be there to contradict him. Ra's should take Nyssa's word over Malcolm's. 

 

Any scene when they aren't at odds would be a good scene for them. I think it will probably be something like him telling her he trusts her with the city or they talk about doing anything for their sisters.

Edited February 21, 2015 by 10Eleven12