Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

Isn't Colin Donnell busy knocking up a teenager on the Affair? I know he can show up for a few minutes for a ep or two but I don't think he can come back full time being on another show.

Cutting because spoilery for The Affair.

His character is the one who died, and the season has already wrapped shooting, so as far as that show goes., he's free.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Isn't Colin Donnell busy getting a teenager pregnant on the Affair? I know he can show up for a few minutes for a ep or two but I don't think he can come back full time being on another show. 

 

Never mind.  Already covered.

Edited December 17, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[KenyaJ]

Isn't Colin Donnell busy getting a teenager pregnant on the Affair? I know he can show up for a few minutes for a ep or two but I don't think he can come back full time being on another show. 

 

He can come back because

his character on The Affair was murdered

 

ETA: LOL. Glad to know other people watch The Affair!

Edited December 17, 2014 by KenyaJ

[Sakura12]

Yes, but isn't the Affair is taking place in the past before as well as after that? So he's still a character on that show. He's

only dead in the future timeline.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Sakura12

[dtissagirl]

I guess it depends on how much he'll be on their second season, but even so, that'll most likely only start shooting late May-early June next year. Technically he's free for Arrow episodes from now until the finale.

Edited December 17, 2014 by dancingnancy

[KenyaJ]

Also, the showrunners for The Affair haven't yet decided whether they will have the same cast for Season 2 or focus on a new group of characters.

[Axel]

From the Spoiler Thread

http://tvline.com/2014/12/17/arrow-season-3-spoilers-sara-canary-returns/

 

Caity Lotz is back on Arrow in Episode 13, “Canaries.” Any idea of what can we expect? –Catarina
Showrunner Marc Guggenheim sums it up as “a really cool episode” in which Lotz appears as (of course) Sara and Peter Stormare (Prison Break) reprises his role as the villain Vertigo, which is a purposeful season-premiere callback. “It’s an episode where a lot of things that we’ve been doing and setting up during the season really sort of come together,” Guggenheim says of the intent to bring things “full circle.” He adds, “It’s not a ‘climactic’ kind of episode, but there’s a feeling of a big payoff by the end of it.”

 

 

Big payoff ? Is it the episode where Oliver and Felicity finally sleep together :p

[statsgirl]

Probably the "big payoff" is Laurel coming into her own as the true Black Canary.  I know I can't wait.  

[looptab]

Maybe episode 302 to 312 are just a huge Vertigo-induced hallucination, Sara is not dead, Laurel is not Canarying, none of this ever happened. IT'S ALL ALRIGHT.

Kidding. maybe. Also, hurry up and bring back Deadshot. Stat!

[Password]

From the Spoiler Thread

 

 

Big payoff ? Is it the episode where Oliver and Felicity finally sleep together :p

Gahaha that made me burst out laughing. We can hope.

[SonofaBiscuit]

From the Spoiler Thread

 

 

Big payoff ? Is it the episode where Oliver and Felicity finally sleep together :p

 

Well, the Vertigo episode was when Felicity and Oliver broke up, so with things coming "full circle," maybe this episode is their reunion (and we get a lot more than a kiss).  One can hope, but I'm still going to assume Oliver's return is all a Vertigo-induced hallucination so I'm not disappointed.

[Danny Franks]

 

But Ray-Felicity is a pointless relationship done just to delay until 323 and give the characters something to do (something which at some point has an impact on Oliver)

 

That is the point of the relationship, from a writers' point of view. That's pretty much as far as the creative mind goes when it comes to writing these temporary, roadblock relationships. I doubt they even pay much attention to whether the characters are thrown under a bus en route, as long as it manages to delay logical and natural storyline progressions for as long as possible.

 

And yeah, that 'big payoff' is probably Laurel finally becoming Black Canary. Which, as we all know, is the only thing that was stopping people from adoring her. Lord.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Sakura12]

It's most likely Laurel's triumph as she becomes Black Canary. Because they've been telling us they been showing us Laurel's journey for the past 2.5 years with her being sidelined, in boring unconnected to the plot storylines and missing entire episodes. Her story was in there somewhere.

 

She'll even get her comic hero name before (Green) Arrow!

 

They are really blinded by that awful character they created. Or they just can't admit they failed even though most everyone already thinks they did. 

Edited December 17, 2014 by Sakura12

[DrSpaceman10]

It's most likely Laurel's triumph as she becomes Black Canary. Because they've been telling us they been showing us Laurel's journey for the past 2.5 years with her being sidelined, in boring unconnected to the plot storylines and missing entire episodes. Her story was in there somewhere.

 

I actually think she'll decide not to be BC (at least for now). We haven't seen any pictures of her in the BC outfit since filming for 3x11/3x12 and there's no reason to keep it a secret at this point...

[ban1o]

The huge payoff could be Oliver returning since we know for sure he'sb back in 3x14 

[calliope1975]

Regarding the pic from SA's Facebook - I enjoy so much that he tries to curtail speculation on the interwebs. It's a pic of Oliver on bluescreen. He could be literally anywhere and everywhere! Of course, we're going to speculate and complain about upcoming episodes because we've got 5 weeks to kill! Bless his heart.

[statsgirl]

It's Oliver with HK hair on bluescreen so it's obviously a flashback.  Did people think that this was present day Oliver and where he is after falling off the mountain?

[SonofaBiscuit]

It's Oliver with HK hair on bluescreen so it's obviously a flashback.  Did people think that this was present day Oliver and where he is after falling off the mountain?

 

People are dumb, so that's very possible.  Speaking of dumb, Oliver has a stupid look on his face.  Maybe this is when he spots Laurel and Tommy together kissing or something.

[TanyaKay]

They are really blinded by that awful character they created. Or they just can't admit they failed even though most everyone already thinks they did. 

 

Not only are they blinded by that awful character, they are hell bent on shoving that down our throats with the delicacy of a sledge hammer and that too at cost of better liked characters like Diggle, Roy Harper and Felicity. It literally defies all logic of network television.

[statsgirl]

People are dumb, so that's very possible.  Speaking of dumb, Oliver has a stupid look on his face.  Maybe this is when he spots Laurel and Tommy together kissing or something.

Did you go over and post Starling City?

[SonofaBiscuit]

Did you go over and post Starling City?

 

No, I'm not on facebook, so I can't do that.  Did other people guess Starling City?   

 

The Arrow people should really talk to the Sleepy Hollow people about wigs.  I quite like Ichabod's wig, it actually looks really good to me.  The Flash and Arrow wigs are...awful.

Edited December 17, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[statsgirl]

I could see only one person who said it.  I guess people who follow spoilers don't post on his FB page.

[Chaser]

He just looks like a lost puppy to me. To be fair though, Flashback Oliver has two main expressions: lost puppy and hopelessly confused. 

 

I have to LOL at his message to the fandom. You release spoilers and give interviews to get people to talk and speculate. You can't really get mad at them if they aren't talking in rainbows and bunnies. 

[Starfish35]

I actually think she'll decide not to be BC (at least for now). We haven't seen any pictures of her in the BC outfit since filming for 3x11/3x12 and there's no reason to keep it a secret at this point...

I know it's completely contrary of me because I've been against Laurel being BC all along, but if they really actually do go this way? I am going to be even more angry. Because that will mean Sara really was killed off for nothing at all.

I don't expect them to do that, but then I didn't expect Thea to be her killer either, so my confidence in my own predictions is not that high right now. :/

Edited December 17, 2014 by Starfish35

[Kymmi]

I know it's completely contrary of me because I've been against Laurel being BC all along, but if they really actually do go this way? I am going to be even more angry. Because that will mean Sara really was killed off for nothing at all.

 

 

This is me, totally.  I will hold them to "so THIS is why they killed Sara???" whichever way they go.  It's an uphill battle, for sure.  I've always hated Laurel but now I hate the writers more.  LOL  I actually feel a bit bad for Laurel - until I remember that she's leaving Quentin in the dark and then, nah.  

[DrSpaceman10]

They've kept her out of the foundry in 6 out of the 9 episodes so far this season, so after this "trilogy" I can't see her being down there all of the time. I also don't see her off fighting crime by herself, so I think she'll hang up the buckles (but possibly hint at taking up the buckles again in the future). 

 

Or she'll just be the new BC permanently...

[Sakura12]

If Laurel doesn't become BC after all of this, then I will be pissed that Sara died. If they go with that then they could've kept Sara alive and honestly I don't think much would've changed in overall plot. Sara's murder is pretty much an afterthought.

[Starfish35]

If they're filming a flashback heavy episode right now, there might not be any reason for Laurel to be in BC costume. So I don't know that we can judge anything off of that. Going forward though, it will be interesting to see what kind of spoilers we get from the set.

[statsgirl]

I'm accepting that she will be the Black Canary at the end of the season because Oliver will need all those other superheroes to fight the Big Bad.

 

If they are wondering whether to keep her as BC, that will be decided over the summer, but I am doubtful she'll hang up her buckles because they've spent so much time, especially this season, getting her into them.  The same for KC leaving the show when her contract is up.

[BkWurm1]

Do we know for sure that there is another Big Bad threatening to rip Starling apart once again this upcoming spring?  Wouldn't three years of that be a bit over the top?  I  guess what I'm saying, is I'm expecting whatever trauma to be happening to be happening a bit more behind the scenes.   I know they love their epic battles but maybe this one will take place out of sight?

[Hipkarma]

Colour me cynical but I wouldn't be surprised if the Big Bad turns out to be Ra's who hears whispers that The Arrow lives, comes to Starling again but this time, he inveigles his way into OQ's life by way of dating a certain ex girlfriend. It keeps her in the plot and makes the finale personal after a fashion. I base this on an old spoiler that LL was getting a love interest and an even older comics story that had Dinah and Ra's.

This is not to say I want this to happen, just that I can see it.

[BkWurm1]

Sounds more interesting than anything more to do with Buckles Canary.  Which means we probably won't get it.  That and while Ra's isn't so old in real life for a almost 30 year old to date, I can't see that allowed on the CW unless the girl has extreme Daddy issues. 

[statsgirl]

I figure there is going to be a finale where they all fight against the Big Bad again, otherwise what's the point of all those superheroes in Starling City?

 

Colour me cynical but I wouldn't be surprised if the Big Bad turns out to be Ra's who hears whispers that The Arrow lives, comes to Starling again but this time, he inveigles his way into OQ's life by way of dating a certain ex girlfriend. It keeps her in the plot and makes the finale personal after a fashion. I base this on an old spoiler that LL was getting a love interest and an even older comics story that had Dinah and Ra's.

I've actually been hoping for this because it seems like a more interesting story than anything they've come up with for Laurel so far and it gives her the opportunity to leave Starling City and seriously train with the LoA for a while if they're going to stick with her as BC.  

 

As long as you don't look at Nyssa it could work, Nable is only 14 years older than Katie Cassidy.

[BkWurm1]

Nyssa isn't an issue since they've already brought up the whole ageless thing with Ra's and his "no one has challenged me in 67 years"

[Guest]

I've been trying to stay away from spoilers since last week but I caved and I'm totally confused tbh.

 

We knew that Tommy was coming back but didn't one of the EP's say that it wasn't for a flashback? Or was that just related to Sara's appearance in 'Canaries'?

 

Also, why are we even doing a Tommy/Laurel flashback and with Thea too? Unless the episode is more about Thea, I really have no interest in yet ANOTHER episode dominated by Laurel. I already have to endure the BC trilogy and I'm sorry MG but I don't buy your back-pedalling whatsoever. Unless they've realized that a lot of people aren't happy with that prospect and they've edited the episodes heavily...

 

Plus I have no desire to watch Felicity help Ray with his ATOM suit and probably start falling for him. Just no. No no no. I'm also starting to worry that they intend to have Ray continue into s4. Nightmare.

 

But the thing I'm most worried about is that Oliver Queen really was killed in 309 and what returns is just the Arrow and basically three years' worth of character growth will be null and void. That is until something sparks Oliver's humanity again late in the season. Yawn. I'd rather not go there tbh. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I figure there is going to be a finale where they all fight against the Big Bad again, otherwise what's the point of all those superheroes in Starling City?

 

So that the EPs can prove that they're better than the movie version of The Justice League? I mean they've already done Flash vs Arrow...

[statsgirl]

But it's not enough just to have them all on the show -- they have to be fighting together for the big season finale.  Otherwise they may as well stick with the two they've got.

 

I think it really speaks to what these spoilers are that I'm mocking the show I couldn't wait to have return in September. Other than seeing how Team Arrow are when they learn Oliver is gone, there are things in the spoilers I'm in different to and things I'll fastforward but nothing that I actually do want to see.

 

 

Nyssa isn't an issue since they've already brought up the whole ageless thing with Ra's and his "no one has challenged me in 67 years"

They've brought it up but people kind of need to forget it to buy Laurel with Ra's, and it's harder with Katrina Law standing there, a year older than Katie Cassidy.  But I think that putting Laurel with an older man who won't put up with her histrionics and controlling would make me like the character more. 

Edited December 18, 2014 by statsgirl

[Password]

But the thing I'm most worried about is that Oliver Queen really was killed in 309 and what returns is just the Arrow and basically three years' worth of character growth will be null and void. That is until something sparks Oliver's humanity again late in the season. Yawn. I'd rather not go there tbh.

It's so ironic that I was looking forward to 3B more than 3A because it seemed like 3A was just setting up 3B. But now I DREAD 3B.

If Oliver comes back demented then I really don't know what I'll do. Sigh.

[Ariah]

I'm not reading the fact that Oliver may come back sans part of his persona as erasing the three (ok, 2,5) years of personal development. The real Oliver Queen would still be there, but burried. If done right, this could actually be a decent plot (ok, now I have written myself into a corner, with the words "if done right").

 

It's true: I watch Arrow for Oliver. I love the guy, even when he's being an emotionally handicapped jerk. Episodes without him will be difficult to watch and I'm certain I'll fast forwards some bits and probably never rewatch them. But it's now virtually impossoble for Oliver to come back unchanged. If he seems unchanged it means something is terribly wrong and will be revealed in the final arch for drama purposes.

 

Funny thing, because in the comics

Oliver came back from the dead changed - more cheerfull, less burdened by death - because his friend Hal resurected his older persona, from before some tragedies changed him. he also came back without a soul, but that's another story.

.

 

Frankly, I'm kind of looking forward this changed Oliver in 3B, but I don't want him too dark too long. I need a story in which love brings him out of this darkness - and I don't mean only romantic love, but also the love of family and friends.

[tv echo]

Marc Guggenheim tells us exactly nothing

Like Emily was in 3x04, or she was like in 3x08?  (I can't think of a really strong Diggle episode right now.)

My reaction to MG's tweeted reassurance that DR and EBR are in episodes 14 and 15 was the same as that expressed by Anetris:  "Crumbs of David & Emily while you turn Arrow into the Laurel Lance show is not enough. They deserve better, Marc."

But they need Black Canary to exist outside of Green Arrow. They did it with Sara, and they're gonna have to do it again with Laurel. Because one of the biggest complains they get from the comic book fans about Laurel becoming Black Canary is that it can't be under Oliver's tutelage. And I think they're gonna do that -- Laurel is gonna be BC without Oliver's influence, positive or negative. I think they might be tying it to the people who are important to her independent of Oliver -- Sara in 313, Tommy in 314 -- the two people who have told her previously that they believe she's always trying to save the world.

But the way they've set up Laurel's transition to becoming the BC, the next logical step would be under Oliver's tutelage.  When Oliver returns to SC and finds out that Laurel has been going out in the field as the BC with minimal boxing training, his protective instincts are going to compel him to train Laurel (in addition to Roy) in offensive techniques and weapons - since he can't stop her from going out.

Colour me cynical but I wouldn't be surprised if the Big Bad turns out to be Ra's who hears whispers that The Arrow lives, comes to Starling again but this time, he inveigles his way into OQ's life by way of dating a certain ex girlfriend. It keeps her in the plot and makes the finale personal after a fashion. I base this on an old spoiler that LL was getting a love interest and an even older comics story that had Dinah and Ra's.

Ra's has been alive for centuries (I assume).  He must have better ways of interfering and manipulating an opponent than dating his ex.  Doing that would just reduce my respect for the great and powerful Ra's.  And if they make it a real attraction or love relationship between Ra's and Laurel, that would reduce my respect for Ra's even more.  That would be the worst plot device yet to prop up or shoehorn in Laurel.

Edited December 18, 2014 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

Okay I am going to be Pollyanna and say that the big payoff, since it involves Vertigo which is "a purposeful season premiere callback" is Oliver overcoming his fear of being Oliver Queen. He lost his family business as well as the woman he loves (sort of).  He sidelined Diggle (with Diggle's consent after the fact).He opposed Laurel's attempts at vigilanting.  He is going to realize that the fate of Starling City doesn't just fall on his shoulders.  Others can and do help.  He may even have a new partner.  All of which will allow him to begin embracing Oliver Queen and who he wants to be when he grows up.   

[Ariah]

When Oliver returns to SC and finds out that Laurel has been going out in the field as the BC with minimal boxing training, his protective instincts are going to compel him to train Laurel (in addition to Roy) in offensive techniques and weapons - since he can't stop her from going out.

 

 

Does it sound cruel if I hope his protective instinct coupled with ruthlessness will result in him deliberately breaking both of her legs to keep her of the streets? (He did shot Roy to protect him, right? It's not below Oliver's morality code)

 

It does. OK, sorry about that.

 

(But I kind of think that BC's amateur hour will end up with either Aresnal or Diggle hurt, because they'd have to protect her instead of focusing on the real danger. That's when BC will learn that costume is not everything... )

[Chaser]

Didn't SA tie the big payoff directly to the LL/BC storyline on the AfterShow?

[calliope1975]

Didn't SA tie the big payoff directly to the LL/BC storyline on the AfterShow?

 

The only payoff for me would be for this LL/BC story line to not happen, thus wasting 3/4 of a season on her "journey." Second best would be LL deciding this isn't the life for her, thus making Sara's death for naught. Either way, I'm no longer receptive to this story. And if any of Team Arrow gets injured because of her incompetence, well, I would love some of whatever drugs the EPs are taking that make them think that would be a good idea.

 

I hate that Sara's next appearance will probably be a hallucination. Such a waste of a great character.

[TanyaKay]

I am kinda certain that like everything else, Guggenheim is playing up the big pay off. It may turn out to be nothing important and it's not like they haven't done it before.

[KirkB]

I'm hoping the big payoff will be the realization that every stupid thing that's happened so far this season has been in Oliver's head since he hasn't yet recovered from being dosed by Vertigo in the season premiere. 

 

Probably not though.

Edited December 18, 2014 by KirkB

[chaos is welcome]

Bahahahahaha. I thought I was the only one hoping this was the case. I would also settle for things continuing to go downhill, he'll even let felicity go ahead and die while Oliver is away, just to see how thoroughly they can destroy everything....then let Oliver figure out how wells time travels, go back to The Calm and fix everything.

Kidding of course.....sorta. At this point I give up.

I did have a thought though, and maybe it's been shared here by others but I haven't been keeping up much. Maybe this flashback is where we see Oliver letting go of laurel (I know that's been expressed) and LATCHING ON TO THEA. Because that line in the pilot "you were with me the whole time" has always annoyed the ever loving crap out of me, since he never really talks about Thea in flashback. I could be down with this, but the real time parallel better be him deciding he's NOT okay with Thea or Felicity's moving on with other men.

I am terrified tbdb really are going to have felicity move on. If Oliver is gone until 14 or 15, at least as far as the team is concerned, that means we are talking 12ish weeks, assuming a break or two in there. Not enough time, IMO, but i fear they will think it's more Than enough, but given that 4-6 eps seem to be the status quo for everyone but Oliver becoming their comic selves, I guess they will figure it's enough time for felicity to move on. Ugh.

[Chaser]

 I would say this is a crazy theory but with these writers...I think when she steps out for the first time she is going to put on the wig and call herself Canary. Sin/Lance probably hear about her and go looking for her which is when they both find out about Sara's death. I'm wondering if the payoff isn't going to be Laurel becoming the Black Canary, but coming to the realization that she can't be The Canary (Sara). It causes her to step back (that and Oliver returning) and maybe start training harder and find her own identity. Its not supposed to be an endpoint, but a step in that direction. I do think that the EPs and the audience have different ideas of payoff and that's going to hurt them.  

 

ETA: Did they change Laurel's motives for becoming Black Canary? I can't firgure out if its about honoring Sara or just about her Angry and getting the killer.

Edited December 18, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[Axel]

Probably the "big payoff" is Laurel coming into her own as the true Black Canary.  I know I can't wait.  

 

Well, it didn't say the feeling of payoff would be limited to Katie Cassidy/Laurel's fan, I say It's a sign it can be both :p

 

Joke aside I agree with another poster, Sunshine, besides Canary, the things set up during the season that come together could involve Oliver returning with some kind of answer/realization on what he wants to be and to do.

 

ETA

 

 

I am terrified tbdb really are going to have felicity move on. If Oliver is gone until 14 or 15, at least as far as the team is concerned, that means we are talking 12ish weeks, assuming a break or two in there.

 

Felicity is never going to  move on. She can have some interests here and there but she'll never really move on unless they decide to permanently end  Olicity, which is not happening anytime soon.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Axel

[statsgirl]

I don't think Felicity is going to move on permanently because she's getting as much buzz as Stephen/Oliver, but I don't put it past them to move her on temporarily.

 

Didn't MG say the payoff was going to be in 3x13?  That makes me think it's just Laurel because there isn't time to set up other payoffs for Thea or Ray, and they don't care enough about Roy.

 

 

I'm hoping the big payoff will be the realization that every stupid thing that's happened so far this season has been in Oliver's head since he hasn't yet recovered from being dosed by Vertigo in the season premiere. 

 

To quote Oliver "that would be my preference."

 

The only payoff for me would be for this LL/BC story line to not happen, thus wasting 3/4 of a season on her "journey." Second best would be LL deciding this isn't the life for her, thus making Sara's death for naught. Either way, I'm no longer receptive to this story. And if any of Team Arrow gets injured because of her incompetence, well, I would love some of whatever drugs the EPs are taking that make them think that would be a good idea.

 

I hate that Sara's next appearance will probably be a hallucination. Such a waste of a great character.

 

I was going to say, maybe Oliver sees her in the flashback but then I remembered that he thought she was dead.

 

The EPs have made such a hash of Laurel's and Thea's stories this season, that while there is still hope for Thea, I'm much less receptive to Laurel become BC than I was in September.  There were a few ways I could have accepted Laurel becoming the Black Canary even though I'm not a fan of the character but starting with Sara's death for plot contrivance purposes and then notdoing the mystery properly, moving into Laurel not telling Quentin and not even looking for her killer but doing a Hulk impersonation ("Smash, Laurel, smash"), and now doing a four episode arc as she gets beat up (ugh) and then recovers, they've blown it more than I thought possible.