Spoiler Discussion Thread

[catrox14]

I disagree with that person that this is good writing, but I completely can see these EPs doing exactly that story, because ripping off something that was already written and acclaimed is much much easier than coming up with a new twist on old characters.

It just makes me cranky that it's totally all right for one dude to call for the murder a kickass lady character to see if some other dude's dick is bigger. Ugh.

The problem is that when they do come up with twists the comics crowd cries foul.

[ban1o]

It's a good theory - it just doesn't account for Waller. And after last week's flashbacks I'm more convinced than ever that she's going to be a major player in this season's arc somehow.

Everyone's so focused on Ra's (not here specifically, just the fandom) but I'll still bet Waller's involved in this up to her neck.

Yeah that's true. Waller could definitely be involved. Why else would they have Oliver be in Hong Kong and working with Argus? 

Edited December 8, 2014 by ban1o

[Guest]

It's a good theory - it just doesn't account for Waller. And after last week's flashbacks I'm more convinced than ever that she's going to be a major player in this season's arc somehow.

Everyone's so focused on Ra's (not here specifically, just the fandom) but I'll still bet Waller's involved in this up to her neck.

 

I agree. Waller is involved more than we think. I think it's interesting that we've encountered ARGUS a few times this season in the present day but not Waller. She's only been in flashback and I think there's a reason for that. Maybe Ra's is the red herring this season?

[SonofaBiscuit]

Once I heard the term "convoluted" being thrown around, I basically stopped trying to predict who killed Sara because it's probably not going to make sense anyways (and I don't really care, tbh).  I just want to make it through this week and fast-forward to Oliver's return in episode 12.  I know Oliver's not going to die and he'll be returning in a few episodes, but I just don't think I can handle Felicity thinking he's dead :(

[statsgirl]

But hasn't she always been a little crazy?

That's what I see but there has always gaslighting about Laurel having a big heart and willing to fight for those who can't so I've learned to take Laurel as 'tell' level rather than 'show'. 

 

I know Raven from IMDb, nice person really into Comics.  I don't think he's right.  For one thing, he gives the writers way more credit for being "good" then I think they deserve.  These guys aren't geniuses, they aren't creative masterminds that weave mind boggling tales. 

On the other hand, they have an obsession with writing Batman, even if it weakens the show.

 

I will take options A and B -- Ra's plants Oliver's DNA on Sara's arrow (we know the lair has a swinging door so he could easily have got in while they were in Corto Maltese and Felicity was at QC) but the actual killing of Sara was a plot by Waller to put Oliver and Ra's at each other's throats because they both interfere in her "work" via Maseo.

[blixie]

That theory does not excite me, I mean we all knew it was Ra's who signed it. That's why "mystery" aspect is so weak, because it's totally Ra's. 

 

That is why I'm so pro ZombieTommy and ONLY Zombie Tommy, it's the only thing I find even remotely interesting/entertaining. 

 

Outside Tommy, I'd really only be able to accept Tatsu/Katana, with Maseo/ARGUS infiltrating the LoA, if only because it explains why they are in this season at all..

[apinknightmare]

I agree. Waller is involved more than we think. I think it's interesting that we've encountered ARGUS a few times this season in the present day but not Waller. She's only been in flashback and I think there's a reason for that. Maybe Ra's is the red herring this season?

 

Wasn't Waller on some kind of administrative leave or disciplinary action or something to do with the drones? Isn't that why Lyla's head of A.R.G.U.S.? Or am I getting this mixed up with something? I swear there was some kind of conversation or spoiler in the offseason about how Lyla wouldn't be in charge for long (like Waller would be back), but there's never been any kind of conversation about that on the show, so...IDK.

[looptab]

Wasn't Waller on some kind of administrative leave or disciplinary action or something to do with the drones? Isn't that why Lyla's head of A.R.G.U.S.? Or am I getting this mixed up with something? I swear there was some kind of conversation or spoiler in the offseason about how Lyla wouldn't be in charge for long (like Waller would be back), but there's never been any kind of conversation about that on the show, so...IDK.

I remember something like that, too. But since the season started, there has been nothing suggesting that Lyla was in charge of ARGUS, at least not that I recall. There was just that mention in 302 when Oliver asked Diggle if she would give them access to their archives or something (which was pointless IMO, since Felicity has hacked into their resources before and after that..but, whatever..)

[Starfish35]

I swear there was some kind of conversation or spoiler in the offseason about how Lyla wouldn't be in charge for long (like Waller would be back), but there's never been any kind of conversation about that on the show, so...IDK.

No I remember that too. Don't know what's up with that.

ETA: Maybe the actress just wasn't available for a while? How much has she been in the flashbacks? I know she was in 3.01 and 3.08 and she wasn't in 3.05 (no Hong Kong flashbacks) or 3.07, but beyond that has she been around?

Edited December 8, 2014 by Starfish35

[Guest]

Wasn't Waller on some kind of administrative leave or disciplinary action or something to do with the drones? Isn't that why Lyla's head of A.R.G.U.S.? Or am I getting this mixed up with something? I swear there was some kind of conversation or spoiler in the offseason about how Lyla wouldn't be in charge for long (like Waller would be back), but there's never been any kind of conversation about that on the show, so...IDK.

 

I remember hearing something like that during SDCC or one of those but I don't remember it being confirmed on the show this season. Why am I not surprised though?! 

[Soulfire]

Interesting. Definitely worth mentioning. I know you weren't there but did it actually flat out point out or heavily imply that she was the killer, or did it just have a lot of scenes with Thea in them? Because imo the official promo they released also implies that she might be the killer. 

 

From what I was told it was more implied from how the trailer was edited together and how they used so many Thea scenes. The scene with Felicity telling Oliver he's the killer was also included in the preview shown at the screening.

[Kordi]

It's a good theory - it just doesn't account for Waller. And after last week's flashbacks I'm more convinced than ever that she's going to be a major player in this season's arc somehow.

Everyone's so focused on Ra's (not here specifically, just the fandom) but I'll still bet Waller's involved in this up to her neck.

Thank you, @Starfish35, for pointing this out. I like Raven's theory. It does make sense, but as you say, it leaves Waller and ARGUS out of the picture. Furthermore, if Raven is right, then there is no good way of tieing the Hongkong flashbacks into Starling City present time story.

Besides this, a comment SA made in a recent interview with "Wall Street Journal" shed some doubts on the idea that R'as al Ghul is this season's big bad:

Question: "Are we going to get to see you fight R’as al Ghul?"

Stephen Amell: "One would hope. I normally fight the big bad of the year. If it turns out he is the big bad, but I don’t think that has been printed, that R’as al Ghul is the big bad this year. I don’t remember anyone announcing that. But, typically I get to fight our big heavies so hopefully I get to fight him because that would be something very iconic for the show."

 

You find the interview here: http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/10/30/stephen-amell-arrow-interview/

[Morrigan2575]

Actually Ra's was announced as the Big Bad a few times.

[Kordi]

Actually Ra's was announced as the Big Bad a few times.

As far as I know his appearence was announced with the SDCC trailer that showed his body and clothes but not his face... But has it ever been explicitly stated that R'as is going to be the main antagonist of S3? I don't think so. However, it might very well be that I missed some spoilers.

[wonderwall]

 

About Sara? 

Could be Digg saying this to Oliver about Lyla before the wedding??? GOD I hope they get married before the hiatus :p 

 

Or on a more morbid note, it could be Nyssa telling Oliver this before he dies. 

Edited December 8, 2014 by wonderwall

[Guest]

I feel like that dialogue tease comes from Nyssa, like she's hinting that Oliver is going to die so he'll end up 'seeing' Sara before she does…in death. Too dark?!

Edited December 8, 2014 by Guest

[wonderwall]

I feel like that dialogue tease comes from Nyssa, like she's hinting that Oliver is going to die so he'll end up 'seeing' Sara before she does…in death. Too dark?!

That's basically what I said ;) Meaning it's a strong possibility lol

[Guest]

That's basically what I said ;) Meaning it's a strong possibility lol

 

Oh, sorry! I didn't see your edit before I posted. Great minds and all that though. ;P

[SleepDeprived]

Only the audience will find out about who killed Sara. Team Arrow will think Oliver was framed. He'll go off to Ra's to demand a trial by combat. One of the last scenes of the episode will reveal Thea being the real killer (barf). Then the show will drag this crap out until episode 12 when Sin reveals whatever and the characters figure it out. Then lots of terrible melodrama follows.

 

Yeah, Sin is supposed to play a pivotal role in the murder mystery. Or, at least, that's what the spoilers indicated for 3x12. So, she's definitely going to bring some  heretofore unknown evidence that will lead Team Arrow closer toward the killer's identity (Ra's or Waller; just say no to Thea as murderer!). I will, very likely, laugh like a crazy person (and drive down to Burbank to chuck my television at the CW offices) if that evidence is Sara solving her own murder from beyond the grave via some sort of videotape or document that Sara had made before she died which, essentially, names her killer. But since Team Arrow is sucking so hard at the crime-solving and these writers are certainly no Agatha Christie, I can see them going for that kind of an easy out to finding out who the killer is.

[Morrigan2575]

As far as I know his appearence was announced with the SDCC trailer that showed his body and clothes but not his face... But has it ever been explicitly stated that R'as is going to be the main antagonist of S3? I don't think so. However, it might very well be that I missed some spoilers.

http://www.enstarz.com/articles/50172/20141104/arrow-season-3-spoilers-ras-al-ghul-will-be-a-very-different-kind-of-big-bad-than-slade-video.htm

"He's definitely the main antagonist of the season," Guggenheim said. "He's responsible for a lot of the events that kick off the year, and reverberate throughout the season. He's our Big Bad, and he's a very different kind of Big Bad than we've had, Malcolm Merlyn and Slade Wilson."

Edited December 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I know the chances of this happening are basically zero, but I hope that dialogue tease is from Laurel to Oliver. Like, after she finds out that he's going to face Ra's for a trial by combat or whatever, basically telling him she thinks he's gonna die - since she thinks either he or Thea killed Sara. I would cackle with glee. 

Edited December 8, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

So basically MG confirmed that Ra's is responsible for Sara's death? LOL. The suspence this season is crazy

[Starfish35]

"He's responsible for a lot of the events that kick off the year, and reverberate throughout the season.

So, if we're to take that literally, is that saying right out that Ra's is behind Sara's murder? So how exactly does Hong Kong fit into all of this? (Though if this means Thea didn't do it, I'll take it.)

Edited December 8, 2014 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

Even if you take it litterally it doesn't 100% mean Ra's killed or ordered Sara's murder.

Ra's sends Sara to track down Malcolm for the League, which is why she's in Starling and ends up getting killed.

Also doesn't literally mean 301, they could be talking about the events in 304 and 309 as the events that kick off the year. 304 sets Arrow against LoA and Malcolm/Oliver as reluctant allies. 309 ends up with LoA/Arrow showdown, Oliver missing/"dead" which reverberates through the rest of the season.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Ariah]

As for the quote, I can even hear it being said by Nyssa - bonus points if it's just as Oliver is being lead to be executed by Ra's, before he suddenly invokes the right to trial by combat.

 

And let me just say now that I must give credit to the writers for not falling for the white-person-using-a-katana cliche in the fight - it looks like Oliver uses chinese-style sword instead.

[tv echo]

I saw this over on Tumblr and it sounds pretty on-the-spot to me re: Sara's death and how it ties into the LoA and Ra's al Ghul:

http://raven1066.tumblr.com/post/104674027731/my-grand-theory-plot-of-season-3-of-arrow

That's an interesting theory and would work around the problem of how Oliver could possibly defeat Ra's al Ghul - clearly, he can't.  However, I also wouldn't be surprised if the midwinter finale ends with Oliver going over the cliff but grabbing Ra's at the last minute and taking him over as well - then both tumble over the cliff a la Sherlock Holmes' classic "death" scene (more copying).

 

Here's my newest theory on Sara's killer -- the DNA evidence is only conclusive enough to identify it as belonging to a male Queen family member.  Since Robert is dead and there are no other male relatives, Oliver is the only suspect.  However, it turns out to be Connor's DNA!  Planted by ARGUS in some convoluted plot that will spin out over the rest of the season and also involve the LOA.  (Of course I'm not serious.)

Edited December 9, 2014 by tv echo

[Ariah]

Since it's a crazy theory time, I recently had the craziest one:

- The Sara that was killed and burried is not a real Sara.

- The real Sara killed this Sara.

- The real Sara will be back eventually, because the writers realize the audience is not into a new BC and wants its old Canary back.

 

Hey, testing the arrows for DNA took them 1/3 of the season. They probably never tested the body if it was trully Sara's, in the comic book universe she could have been anyone after plastic surgery and 6-months of coaching!

 

(I'm grasping at straws here, people, don't laugh... Too loud)

[looptab]

RE: the comic preview, could somebody hug Quentin? Please! He needs it :)

[dtissagirl]

RE: the comic preview, could somebody hug Quentin? Please! He needs it :)

 

AWWWW THESE TWO. Please adopt each other asap, k? K.

[Ariah]

RE: the comic preview, could somebody hug Quentin? Please! He needs it :)

 

Maybe we'll get a bottle episode next season when Quentin and the Arrow are locked up somewhere and need to work together in order to survive.

And in the end, when Quentin thinks he's going to die, he says "I forgave you a long time ago, Queen".

[Starfish35]

she could have been anyone after plastic surgery and 6-months of coaching!

(I'm grasping at straws here, people, don't laugh... Too loud)

Hey, it worked for Highlander! ;)

[catrox14]

I theorized a while back that I Olivers child would be involved. I think his DNA is a good call.

Or... Tommy is really Olivers brother. d AL Ghul might have gotten Tommy DNA from Malcolm because malcolm had Tommy DNA stashed for malcolm is crazy reasons and al Ghul sets up Oliver and destroys Malcolms ego in the process when he learns that Tommy is not his flesh and blood.

[Guest]

That comic preview is the first hint we've had that Quentin doesn't really enjoy his desk job and prefers being out in the field and working with a partner, which is what I thought we'd be getting this season but so far we've just had a handful of scenes where he's stuck with Laurel asking her what's wrong. They really have dropped the ball everywhere this season, haven't they?

[writersblock51]

I am looking forward to more Quentin.  I, too, had thought we'd see more of him 'adjusting' to his new position but perhaps that's more of 3B thing.

[KirkB]

I wonder why the EP's decided to make Quentin a captain at all, since he seems to spend most of his time in the field anyway, apparently being one of the only cops on scene at every crime while personally liaising with the Arrow. Not to mention he has to put up with Laurel all the time. No wonder he's exhausted.

Edited December 9, 2014 by KirkB

[statsgirl]

Maybe they made him a captain to justify his interacting with DA Laurel on a professional basis, like the last episode when she wanted to know why he wasn't doing better at getting some blah blah blah crooks caught.

 

On a purely speculative note, I wonder how Quentin will react to Oliver being missing for so long.  (Will he miss him in the field? Will he call Felicity to find out what happened to him?  Will he notice Oliver Queen is missing too?)  Or if will they not even bother writing him noticing at all.

I am looking forward to more Quentin.  I, too, had thought we'd see more of him 'adjusting' to his new position but perhaps that's more of 3B thing.

I think that was more of a Paul Blackthorne "I'm desperately trying to put some reasoning and backstory into the stuff they're giving me" thing.  Like with Roy's story, there's a lot of good material that could have been mined except for the excitement about the shiny new toys.

[ostentatious]

I wonder why the EP's decided to make Quentin a captain at all, since he seems to spend most of his time in the field anyway, apparently being one of the only cops on scene at every crime while personally liaising with the Arrow. Not to mention he has to put up with Laurel all the time. No wonder he's exhausted.

Replied to this in the Oliver thread.

[Ariah]

What if Quentin overhears the LoA members asking about "the Canary's killer"?

 

He seems pretty close to the action in that comic preview.

[JenMcSnark]

My crazy theory goes back to Slade's reappearance on the show.

 

Waller wants crazy Slade to work for her but he refuses. UNLESS she allows him to kill Sara (who he still blames for Shado's death) and use Waller's resources to frame Oliver, who he also still blames.  

 

Waller laughs maniacally and says, "The fine people on the Previously.tv forum just gave me a great idea!  We can frame him using his unknown son's DNA!  It's brilliant!"

 

Sin will break the case wide open by suddenly remembering that she happened to see someone who looked an awful lot like that Slade Wilson dude in Starling City the night Sara was fridged.  "Damn dudes!  I really wish you assholes would have at least contacted me about my BFF Sara being murdered sooner!  Like maybe when it happened?  No wonder she left you dickwads to go back to the LOA.  Now let's go get this guy!" 

 

Case solved.  You're welcome. :-)

[TanyaKay]

Quentin and Oliver were quite close to hugging in that comic preview. I mean they even exchanged seasons greetings.

[Ariah]

Oh, another dialogue tease from Guggenheim.

Who else thinks it ends with "come back to me"?

[Soulfire]

I'm hoping for a callback to 2x09 and the "I'll come back." / "Promise me." exchange.

[apinknightmare]

Oh, another dialogue tease from Guggenheim.

Who else thinks it ends with "come back to me"?

It's probably going to be something completely innocuous like, "remember to turn your comms on when you (whatever)" because these people are teasing bastards.

/anxious bitterness

I hope there's an "I'll come back/promise me" callback too though. This nine better end with me needing to be scraped off the floor and/or rocking in the fetal otherwise what's the point, show?!

[Ariah]

It's probably going to be something completely innocuous like, "remember to turn your comms on when you (whatever)" because these people are teasing bastards.

 

 

It can also be:

" Wear the scarf to the Nanda Parbat."

[Password]

If it ends with "come back to me" I will faint. Let it be known.

[calliope1975]

It better be part of the 9/10 scene! I have to keep reminding myself this is the CW, not HBO. I will not get the smutty culmination that I am hoping for so the emotional payoff better be just as good. (And after someone posted clips from some movie SA did with pretty hot sexytimes on Tumblr, I am very sad we won't get a recreation with Felicity. I will remove my head from the gutter now.)

[SonofaBiscuit]

It better be part of the 9/10 scene! I have to keep reminding myself this is the CW, not HBO. I will not get the smutty culmination that I am hoping for so the emotional payoff better be just as good. (And after someone posted clips from some movie SA did with pretty hot sexytimes on Tumblr, I am very sad we won't get a recreation with Felicity. I will remove my head from the gutter now.)

 

Ooh.  What's the name of this movie (or where can I see the clips)??

 

God, this episode is probably going to leave me sobbing in the corner.  I'm actually dreading it because it's going to hurt so bad.  Their reunion in episode 12 had better be epic.  Wish I was binge-watching this instead of having to wait until February!

Edited December 9, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[apinknightmare]

It better be part of the 9/10 scene! I have to keep reminding myself this is the CW, not HBO. I will not get the smutty culmination that I am hoping for so the emotional payoff better be just as good. (And after someone posted clips from some movie SA did with pretty hot sexytimes on Tumblr, I am very sad we won't get a recreation with Felicity. I will remove my head from the gutter now.)

Are you talking about that short film where he's got that woman against the wall? Because yeah. I wish that was network appropriate too haha.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Are you talking about that short film where he's got that woman against the wall? Because yeah. I wish that was network appropriate too haha.

 

Ha!  Found it.  I'm moving this to the Arrow Stars in Other Roles thread.

Edited December 9, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[apinknightmare]

So, re: the new clip.

 

Felicity made sure to say that SCPD has a database of genetic markers on anyone who's committed a felony within the past three years - that's why Thea's not going to show up in her search. Although why she'd search SCPD instead of ARGUS when the person who killed her was most likely affiliated with the League and not local, I don't know...YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU KNOW WHAT, NOT GOING TO TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT

 

Also, regarding the headline on Felicity's computer - why would there be a newspaper article about a blur attacking S.T.A.R. Labs - I thought they had a souper seekrit squirrel operation going on there? How would anyone find out about an attack, much less write an article about it?

Edited December 9, 2014 by apinknightmare