Spoiler Discussion Thread

[KenyaJ]

16 minutes ago, Belinea said:

This season is really weird in the sense that Oliver is mostly doing things correctly, way better than before, and everyone else throws a tantrum and blames Oliver for, well, almost everything. I assume that the writing really thought everyone would see that Oliver is the problem and side with the others but the opposite is happening for me. I am left wondering why they are all behaving in the way they are and I can say that I am truly with Oliver on this one.

 

Yeah, this is the biggest problem for me. There have been many times throughout the seasons when I thought Oliver was being stupid, inflexible, or unreasonable. But this season, he's been so mature and you can really see the growth in him. Even based on what Stephen says, they give him dialogue that supports his position. So it feels like the writers are trying to have it both ways, giving us the new, improved Oliver Queen, but also trying to make us think NTA and Diggle have a point. If they'd attempted this storyline in S3, it would have made more sense because Oliver was a frustrating mess in that season. But this season, I feel like he and Felicity are honeymooning on Sanity Island and all the people around him have been replaced by pod people. 

Is that how they're going to resolve this mess, by revealing that Dragon kidnapped Diggle, Lance, and NTA and replaced them with 3-D printed dopplegangers?

Edited April 4, 2018 by KenyaJ

[Guest]

I literally do not even understand what DR is talking about tbh. It just reads like nonsense. Poor guy being left to defend this trash.

I appreciate SA just basically calling it bullshit but when not even he can sell it, or even attempt to, there’s a major problem. ? 

[Trisha]

This is the most I've ever seen SA actively call out a storyline when the season is still running. And he manages to be pretty diplomatic about it. It's impressive, really. 

If they really wanted to sell this, they would have had Diggle object more strenuously to Oliver tracking NTA at the beginning of the split. He definitely voiced his concerns, but then he went along with it. To suddenly say that Diggle has had an issue with Oliver making unilateral decisions all this time is totally revisionist. SA says that it's really about Dig being "upset about something else" but if that's true we're going to have to see what that something is really soon. Because right now, this SL is not doing any favors to Dig's character.

[Guest]

Poor Diggle getting thrown under the bus to prop the newbies. This is why they all need to DIE.

[Mary0360]

2 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Arrow's David Ramsey Previews Diggle/Oliver Bunker Brawl: 'Brothers Have Fights, But This Is Different'

I adore David Ramsey and it's not his fault he has to try to defend this nonsense, but his comments aren't making me any more sympathetic to Diggle's POV (which, in turn makes me laugh and nod along with Stephen).

ETA: The recent changes to the board are driving me nuts. The last sentence is my comment, not part of the article, but I can't fix the formatting.

Yeah.... can't really buy in to Davids head canon on this one. I definitely think Stephens take on the scene will be the correct interpretation, even if the writers insist we see Diggles arguments as having merit aswell. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

The weird thing is this is a way better reason than wanting it so desperately because it was in some alien-induced brainwashing!

DR has a track record of taking stuff directly from an episode to answer a question. I would not be the leaat bit surprised to find out that's part of the reason (expressed on screen).

Edited April 4, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

DR has a track record of taking stuff directly from an episode to answer a question. I would not be the leaat bit surprised to find out that's part of the reason (expressed on screen).

Oh I know it’ll be expressed onscreen. I just wish they’d fully gone with that throughout instead of ever having Diggle say it was because of the brainwashing. And they should’ve built up to it more, because even though it’s a better reason I still don’t buy that Diggle suddenly disagrees with the way Oliver’s handled things to the point he wants to fully take over. 

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, Belinea said:

This season is really weird in the sense that Oliver is mostly doing things correctly, way better than before, and everyone else throws a tantrum and blames Oliver for, well, almost everything.

Recently, when MG said they are stripping away all of Oliver's support, I was bummed because he's come so far from S1 and his killing mission. But they are making the people leave him for completely nonsensical reasons, and then having those characters act so either unsympathetic (NTA) or bonkers (Dig) that I'm beginning to think Oliver is better off alone (+ Felicity.) 

It sucks because there are several very valid reasons to have Oliver lose his support system but not with these writers. 

[Guest]

This storyline would've made more sense in s3 when Oliver came back from the dead and the team had taken over from him. They kinda explored it for an episode but nothing more. Saying this after 6 years is just ridiculous. It really doesn't make any sense and they're just forcing this crap now. 

If Diggle at any point in the episode says that the newbies had a point about Oliver, we'll know the reason. I'll riot. I will. I'll get my pitchfork ready. ?

[DrSpaceman10]

Whenever I've thought Oliver was being an assbutt, the show's all "she's the mother of his child!", "SuSAn's a gOoD pERson!!!". Now, when Oliver's his most mature, best self, the show's all "he's the worst!". Does not compute. 

[jay741982]

I'm just afraid People will turn on Diggle ?. Man these writers are fucking Hacks. 

[Primal Slayer]

Everyone gets their turn at shitty writing on this show, thats for sure. Diggles time has come and it is HARD. They've made him unbearable. 

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

They've made him unbearable. 

Let's not talk crazy. He's no where near the newbies.

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, way2interested said:

Let's not talk crazy. He's no where near the newbies.

lol. He's unbearable and the newsbies....

Which is huge for me since I was on their side at the beginning of this for the most part. 

[KenyaJ]

7 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

I'm just afraid People will turn on Diggle . Man these writers are fucking Hacks. 

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I will absolutely love Diggle after this nonsense passes. I love him so much, which is why it's frustrating to see the writers making him so OOC. I struggled with this during S3 when I felt like Felicity was being written OOC to make Ray work/happen. It didn't affect my love for her at all because it was so obvious that the writers were just moving pieces around the board. And if I can still love Oliver after all the stupid stuff he's done over the years, there's no way I'd ever turn on Diggle. This, too, shall pass. It had just better pass quickly, because I hate being irritated with him.

[Guest]

Apart from the start of 6a I feel like Diggle hasn't really been very present for most of this season. It's only last episode when they started to bring back this dumb plot that he was slightly annoying. I'd definitely not call him unbearable. I'm more frustrated at the writing because I know he's acting OOC.

It helps that he's one of my faves so I can forgive dumb writing for him. I can't ever forgive the newbies because not only do I not care about them at all but they are

[JJ928]

I won't turn against him. I love Digg, this will just be another poorly written hurdle to get over. With characters like Digg, Felicity, Thea, and even Lance, I can give them more leeway because i've been invested in them for the past 6 years. With new characters or character I don't care for, it's a different story. I hope they give Digg more of a reason than alien brainwashing... but if they don't, I'll still be here rooting for him after this arc.

[jay741982]

I'll still be rooting for him as well. Just the writers SUUUCCCKKK

[Mellowyellow]

I will always love Diggle! He's built up too many years of goodwill for me to stop loving him! If I can forgive 5A Oliver I can overlook this nonsense.

The thing with the N00bs is I have always hated/disliked 2/3 of them.

Curtis I didn't care for in S4 and didn't want him joining the team. Pretty much resented him in S5 and felt they constantly let him do things Felicity should be doing. He can DIE DIE DIE this season for obvious reasons.

Rene was an asswipe the moment he was introduced. HATED him and now he can also DIE DIE DIE for obvious reasons.

Dinah I don't care about. I pay no attention to her so whether she lives or dies I don't care. Blissfully neutral. She's the noob I'm more likely to tolerate because although they wrote her badly, for me she doesn't have the bad will of Rene or muscled in Felicity's company storyline (a storyline I waited for forever) like Curtis has.

Of course in an ideal world I'd want to get rid of all of them. 

I enjoy the supporting cast of Flash so much more than Arrow's. Yes even Ralph!

[insomniadreams88]

I'm always going to love Diggle. Mainly because I can't see this whole "I want to be the Green Arrow" lasting for too long. We're already at 617 and I don't see this being something they carry over into next season.

That being said, I am very frustrated with him right now. 

[leopardprint]

Listen, I am just going to believe that all that time Diggle spent with Dinah in 6A has addled his brain. He was on drugs and vulnerable at the time. 

What I am saying is that it’s Dinah’s fault. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by leopardprint

[BkWurm1]

Quote

“We have a very good argument,” says Stephen Amell, “and it’s a wonderful scene, and David’s wonderful in it. But if you’re the fact checker when that scene’s happening, I think that everything that Oliver is saying is rooted in absolute truth, while a lot of the stuff that Diggle is saying feels like he’s reaching a bit, because he’s upset about something else. So I’m interested to see how it all pays off.”

If we do get pay off on the something else, I will happily give a pass to this storyline.  I really hope this is SA's version of handing out hope. He doesn't say "if it pays off" but "how it all pays off" which gives me that hope that some kind of payoff is a foregone conclusion.  

[Mellowyellow]

Just think of it as a contrived angsty bromance! And watching two very good looking dudes wrestle!

[Trisha]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

If we do get pay off on the something else, I will happily give a pass to this storyline.  I really hope this is SA's version of handing out hope. He doesn't say "if it pays off" but "how it all pays off" which gives me that hope that some kind of payoff is a foregone conclusion.  

That’s a good point. SA implies that there’s another reason that isn’t discussed in that scene, but makes it sound like it’s coming later. Hopefully it’s at the end of the ep, because I don’t want to go multiple weeks with Dig looking like an idiot. Although on the flip side, “I’m interested to see how it all pays off” makes it sound like he doesn’t know yet. And wasn’t there a tweet about SA telling a fan at last weekend’s con that he was sick of Oliver being torn down again because there’s never any payoff or something? (He definitely complained about lack of payoff but can’t find the tweet anymore).

I’m guessing SA’s quote is from the same interview where he talked about WH’s exit. They seemed to have caught him on a day where he had no f***s to give. 

[Mellowyellow]

I do wonder what's going on with him and this storyline! He sounds like he's pining after DR on Twitter! It's kinda funny how they writers are so bad they vex us so much on this forum. Seems like SA has reached that point with them! 

[Trisha]

30 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I do wonder what's going on with him and this storyline! He sounds like he's pining after DR on Twitter! 

I do like how much SA is hyping this ep on Twitter, even if he doesn’t seem thrilled by the premise. He’s out there repping hard for DR’s big showcase of the season, which is very sweet. 

[way2interested]

46 minutes ago, Trisha said:

They seemed to have caught him on a day where he had no f***s to give

He did say that he told Matt everything, which seems odd for him.

[Belinea]

I am all for DR having a big episode and being the MVP. In my opinion, SA and DR also manage to bring out the best in each other acting wise. I just wish the storyline was better.

Whatever happened to that spoiler guy who knew beforehand about the episodes? Did he go into hiding?

[ladylaw99]

I will always love Diggle and DR.  It would take alot for me to hate that character   I have mixed feelings for sure about tonight's episode.  I am hoping it is not going to be as bad as it sounds.  I am going into this episode with no expectations.

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

I do like how much SA is hyping this ep on Twitter, even if he doesn’t seem thrilled by the premise. He’s out there repping hard for DR’s big showcase of the season, which is very sweet. 

It is. The last time he did this, praising Emily's performance in 611, I loved that episode so much. It's hard for me to imagine loving an episode where Diggle is whining about being the GA, but who knows? Maybe it will turn out to be a good episode. In any case, I have full faith that David and Stephen's performances will be great, so at least that's something to look forward to.

[Aeryn13]

Sigh. Guess I`ll have to suffer through Diggle holding the idiot-stick for no reason for the time being. Can we fast forward to an episode where him and Oliver are trapped in a sealed off arrow-cave, talk it out and make up? 

[statsgirl]

I am determined to enjoy this episode and the next because starting after that, the show seems to be villain and NTA  heavy and at that point I'm the one with no f***s left to give.

[Trisha]

New from EW, in which MG says basically nothing:

Quote

What do you know about Arrow‘s season finale? — Jono
As Oliver continues to alienate everyone who loves him, expect to see more of the same in the season-ender — though it may not end the way you’d expect. “It’s a very unusual kind of finale,” EP Marc Guggenheim says. “It definitely has a cliffhanger, but not a traditional cliffhanger. Last year’s finale was a traditional cliffhanger. It was very much an ‘Oh my God, what’s going to happen?’ This is a different kind of cliffhanger. I would say it’s somewhere on the spectrum of the cliffhanger of season 1, which was like, ‘How is Oliver gonna go forward?’ and the cliffhanger of season 5, which was more of a traditional cliffhanger. This, I think, falls somewhere in the middle. We have a few surprises up our sleeves. There’s a couple of twists, there’s a couple of things that we’re doing that are not only very unexpected, but also unprecedented not just for Arrow, but for the other DC superhero shows as well.”

[JJ928]

I think he's gonna be outed as GA for sure in the finale. 

[Soulfire]

[insomniadreams88]

Anatoly says that Diaz has people in "all levels of government." How?! I feel like they keep telling us/wanting us to see Diaz as this Big Bad, but he's just not coming across that way. 

[JJ928]

Diaz sucks. But I do hope that little clip leads to Anatoly being the one to change sides in ep 20.

[bijoux]

How I wish Lyla would just walk into the lair during the brawl and plomp herself down next to Felicity. What, they couldn't even take their shirts off? And then they talk about whatever and gorge out on Big Belly, completely igoring their husbands. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Anatoly says that Diaz has people in "all levels of government." How?! I feel like they keep telling us/wanting us to see Diaz as this Big Bad, but he's just not coming across that way. 

He's a dipshit who has lucked out in pretty much every idiotic step he's taken. The people he has on the inside are probably just disgruntled employees who are on the verge of being out of a job so they'll do whatever they have to to survive. I know if I found out that the guy I was following to whatever end had allowed a planted stooge to nearly blow up the city and then was fucking dumb enough to let a fellow goon walk out of a bank with the $70 million he'd gained from said planted stooge, I'd be rethinking my loyalties. 

[calliope1975]

But Diaz' actor likes to surround himself in pink, swirly smoke, and the character's stunt double fights people while wearing a tank top. He's sooooo scareeee and intimidating. Man, the ONE time I wish Slade would come back so he could sucker punch this jerk.

(If you had told me before this season I would be completely disappointed by the guy who played Alvarez and Charlie, I would not have believed you.)

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

But Diaz' actor likes to surround himself in pink, swirly smoke,

His personal photo shoots and hashtag sad alter ego have entertained me more than his character has thus far. Although it's not his fault the writers wrote his character as a complete moron masquerading as a badass. 

[tv echo]

My belated comment on the Tommy discussion...

I don't like the idea of Human Target impersonating Tommy in order to get Oliver acquitted. I feel like that would be disrespectful to Tommy's memory to make people believe that he was alive and the Green Arrow.

After Tommy died, Oliver made a tacit vow to honor Tommy's memory by not killing any more. From 201-City of Heroes:

Oliver: "After he found out my secret, you know what Tommy called me? A murderer. He was right. My best friend died thinking that I was a murderer, and anyone that I kill dishonors his memory."

It seems like it would be dishonoring Tommy's memory to make people believe that Tommy was the killer. Also, right now, Tommy is remembered as someone who died heroically saving the woman he loved from a collapsing building. Would Oliver really allow him to be remembered as a killer (albeit a heroic killer) just to save his own skin?

Also, what happens next? Does 'Tommy' conveniently die again or leave Star City? If he dies again, then he'll now be falsely remembered as a vigilante. If 'Tommy' lives and leaves the city, does his grave marker get taken down? Or is his grave just abandoned? That doesn't seem like a good way to honor Tommy's memory either.

Edited April 5, 2018 by tv echo

[Guest]

Am I the only one who forgets Diaz even exists half the time? As someone who is supposed to be this ominous epic bad guy, I genuinely forget he's even there and when he comes on screen I'm like "Oh. Him." ?

[DeadZeus]

Sorry, but i HATE that the B-team are the ones going after Diaz and actually getting some evidence/trying to stop him while TA was stuck in a filler episode and fighting eachother. WTF!

[Morrigan2575]

I really don't want an "I Am Iron Man" moment ?

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

Sorry, but i HATE that the B-team are the ones going after Diaz and actually getting some evidence/trying to stop him while TA was stuck in a filler episode and fighting eachother. WTF!

Dig and Oliver are there in the field while Dinah is with the few officers she trusts. That doesn't look like they're sitting out to me. 

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

Sorry, but i HATE that the B-team are the ones going after Diaz and actually getting some evidence/trying to stop him while TA was stuck in a filler episode and fighting eachother. WTF!

After them whining and not doing anything to help stop Cayden James for weeks, I guess one week of them actually trying to do something is at least a step towards avoiding incompetency while OTA still are in the field.

Edited April 5, 2018 by way2interested

[tv echo]

I posted this article in the Starling City Times thread because there was nothing spoilery revealed. However, please note that it's the first of a series of articles on BoundingIntoComics' interview with JH and that future installments might contain spoilers - so keep an eye out for those future articles (it also seems to confirm that Dinah will be back next season)...

EXCLUSIVE: Arrow’s Juliana Harkavy Reveals the Marvel Character She Wants to Play!
John F. Trent  April 3, 2018
http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/04/03/exclusive-arrows-juliana-harkavy-reveals-the-marvel-character-she-wants-to-play/

Quote

We had the absolute pleasure of chatting with Juliana Harkavy last week where we touched on a number of different topics including what we can expect from Dinah Drake and the Black Canary in the final episodes of Arrow for Season 6 as well as how her character will progress into Season 7. This is the first little tidbit of our over 30 minute conversation which we will be rolling out over the week. Make sure you check back in so you don’t miss anything!

Edited April 5, 2018 by tv echo

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, tv echo said:

However, please note that it's the first of a series of articles on BoundingIntoComics' interview with JH and that future installments might contain spoilers - so keep an eye out for those future articles (it also seems to confirm that Dinah will be back next season)...

 

No thank you. She is literally the last person I want to read about. ?

As for what MG was talking about, it kinda sounds like Oliver's just gonna have that Iron Man moment tbh. But that was a lot of word salad, as usual. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Guest

[tv echo]

I think it's interesting that Beth Schwartz is the one in the 617 producer's preview and not WM - what, is Wendy too busy?

James Bamford has revealed that the 622 director is Tara Miele...

Edited April 5, 2018 by tv echo