Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tennisgurl]

I think Alena as a info broker, morally grey sometimes ally sometimes enemy of Team Arrow is a good idea, and a good use of her character. Generally, Arrow has set up a decent amount of possible reoccurring allys who can show up from time to time, and I think they should continue with that. Even the newbies would be fine (or at least, they were before this stupid schism) if they hadn't eaten up so much screen time on boring stuff. 

It seems like we are finally getting that Black Siren redemption arc they keep hinting at, and...they are really pushing this. I could deal with Black Siren becoming less evil, I suppose, and even becoming a sort of bad guy who has some good in them, but as of now, it just seems so flimsy, using things like "she hesitated before turning an allys brain to soup in front of his girlfriend!" to say that she isn't so bad, and she has shown no real interest in redemption other than when Quentin is stalking her, and she was just so murderous and nasty before, it would take some REAL effort on her part to become a good guy, and right now, I just dont see that from her. 

[statsgirl]

Watching that promo, it  really seems like they are trying to sell the two teams fighting each other.  It feels like overkill for the sake of drama because while I believe they may disagree philosophically, I don't think Oliver is going to start physically fighting with them unless it's to save someone's life.

In the same way, I'm  hanging on to hope that the show is only teasing at a Black Siren redemption to string people along and they won't go there in the end. Also that Quentin will get the psychiatric help he needs.

2 hours ago, darkestboy said:

I'm going against the grain here but fuck it, I want a Black Siren redemption arc and I do think they'll go there, even if it's similar to Malcolm in a way.

As for Curtis, Dinah and Rene, all three of them need to go. They've been on the show long enough and they don't gel. Just kill them off and be done with it.  Next season have Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, E2 Laurel and another vigilante (Rory maybe) be Team Arrow and leave it at that. 

I don't see how she can be redeemed. (I don't think Rene can either but I bet they're going to try to sell it to me.)

First, in order to be redeemed you have to have been good before you went bad.  Slade could be redeemed because he started out as Oliver's friend.  Malcolm was okay until his wife's death and then he went off the rails.  But even with that, he was never really redeemed until he sacrificed his life for Thea's. Until then he was more of a frenemy and he never joined the lair. We even had Diggle and Felicity say he wasn't to be trusted.  E2 Laurel, on the other hand, has never shown that she's a good person.  Whatever her back story is, right now all we've seen is that she likes killing.  Cayden James even told her not to kill everyone but she does because she likes it.  I don't see how that is redeemable even if there is a part of her that wants Daddy back.  She may have hesitated to kill Vince but she still did it instead of killing Cayden James.

Second, although Dinah is going off the rails right now, she's still closer to the Black Canary that the shows seems to require than Black Siren is.  Closer to being able to be the character in the comic books.

Finally, and most of all, while it might be interesting to see the dynamics of the Team if Black Siren joined,  I'm tired of people on Team Arrow fighting Oliver just because they think they're smarter or better than he is.  Laurel did it in s3 and s4 (including that unforgettable scene in the corridor of a public hospital where she said out loud that Oliver is the Green Arrow and demanded that he treat her as an equal).  Curtis, Rene, Evelyn and Dinah have been doing it through season 5 and 6.  And honestly by this point I'm sick of hearing it because it's been done to death even more than the MySons stories.  If you think you're better than Oliver, fine. But go away and stop whinging about it in the Arrow lair. (Rene, I'm looking at you.)

Edited February 9, 2018 by statsgirl

[leopardprint]

If they are redeeming BS into a Black Canary then there will have been 4 versions of The Screecher’s Journey* on this show (75% of them including characters named Dinah). You succeeded with the first one, Show, diminishing returns since then. 

*No wonder Sara bailed on the name. She doesn’t want to be associated with these people. 

[Featherhat]

Thing is, even if BS joins the lair, I don't think she'd gel in any way. Laurel never really did, and a lot of her "best" episodes had her standing around in the background making a few comments. She's still played by KC who didn't work with SA either as a LI or as a "friend" really. And given her aggressive personality I don't think she's going to accept Oliver's leadership any more than Laurel or the boobs did/do. And for those hoping for a BS/GA love story, even if by some twist that happened they'd still be contending with SA's nope face, and I don't see why they'd do it when they avoided it for 3 seasons when E1LL was alive and there were plenty of times Olicity weren't together or had broken up. They gave her minimal things to do and killed her off for a reason, if they turn BS back into BC then they might just as well have Sara use Waverider to rescue E1LL. 

Assuming she survives and is partially redeemed, I see a Malcolm role in her future, and she'll probably wear out her welcome as much as he did or she'll survive and hook up with another villain next season and be a recurring antagonist.

7 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

If they are redeeming BS into a Black Canary then there will have been 4 versions of The Screecher’s Journey* on this show (75% of them including characters named Dinah). You succeeded with the first one, Show, diminishing returns since then. 

*No wonder Sara bailed on the name. She doesn’t want to be associated with these people. 

We have confirmation from Nora Darhk that White Canary is now famous and she doesn't have to clarify which one of those she is. 

[KenyaJ]

21 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

First, in order to be redeemed you have to have been good before you went bad.  Slade could be redeemed because he started out as Oliver's friend.  Malcolm was okay until his wife's death and then he went off the rails.  But even with that, he was never really redeemed until he sacrificed his life for Thea's. Until then he was more of a frenemy and he never joined the lair.

And the reason Malcolm was a frenemy was because he was useful. He was tied into the League and had important information about Darkh and Ra's. On top of that, he had a personal connection to the team through Thea, and Oliver wasn't going to kill his sister's father, no matter how much he may have wanted to.

BS!Laurel has zero personal connection to the team, and is not Laurel, so being redeemed isn't going to magically give her the same relationships to the rest of the team that Laurel had. And her usefulness to the team is questionable. She's basically a hired mercenary who does whatever she's told. It's not believable that she would have the same utility that Malcolm had.

I don't really care whether BS sticks around, but there's little to no potential story for a redeemed BS, unless Dinah dies or leaves Star City. Maybe that will happen. Who knows.

Just now, KenyaJ said:

And the reason Malcolm was a frenemy was because he was useful. He was tied into the League and had important information about Darkh and Ra's. On top of that, he had a personal connection to the team through Thea, and Oliver wasn't going to kill his sister's father, no matter how much he may have wanted to.

BS!Laurel has zero personal connection to the team, and is not Laurel, so being redeemed isn't going to magically give her the same relationships to the rest of the team that Laurel had. And her usefulness to the team is questionable. She's basically a hired mercenary who does whatever she's told. It's not believable that she would have the same utility that Malcolm had.

I don't really care whether BS sticks around, but there's little to no potential story for a redeemed BS, unless Dinah dies or leaves Star City. Maybe that will happen; who knows? All I know is that Black Canary isn't important enough to this show that we should have to deal with the revolving door of Canaries.

[statsgirl]

45 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

 And for those hoping for a BS/GA love story, even if by some twist that happened they'd still be contending with SA's nope face, and I don't see why they'd do it when they avoided it for 3 seasons when E1LL was alive and there were plenty of times Olicity weren't together or had broken up.

SA is Arrow and without him there wouldn't be an Arrowverse or the number of DC shows there are on TV.  He's so much happier with Felicity as Oliver's love interest, it seems to me that they owe him this one.

[kes0704]

I don’t see how they could have Black Siren join Team Arrow after she worked with Prometheus and played a part in the island explosion that ultimately killed the mother of Oliver’s son. 

How would Oliver ever reconcile and be okay with it to the point where she would be welcome on the team in any capacity?

There’s not even a claim to be made that she hesitated in helping Prometheus which proves her “humanity” because, from what we saw, she was fully onboard with all of his evil plans. 

[insomniadreams88]

Didn't EBR mention a scene coming up with Felicity and Curtis about the start-up at a con? I think in one of the panels with DR? And I think she mentioned he was there? Now I'm really wondering if Curtis hacks their chips and the scene EBR was talking about is the aftermath of that? 

[calliope1975]

I agree wholeheartedly with those who are saying there's no coming back if Curtis messes with Felicity's and Diggle's chips. That's beyond the pale. But I don't know how Rene can be walked back either, so, what do I know.

[leopardprint]

20 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I agree wholeheartedly with those who are saying there's no coming back if Curtis messes with Felicity's and Diggle's chips. That's beyond the pale. But I don't know how Rene can be walked back either, so, what do I know.

From next week’s episode promo, it looks like Dinah and Oliver get in a fight while Felicity is standing nearby so maybe she could end up collateral screech damage. 

Speaking of the promo I still don’t get what Rene is so mad about?

Is he jealous Oliver married Felicity? Felicity started a company with Curtis? Dinah has a job? The size of Diggle’s arms? He has a daughter and not a Myson? 

Edited February 9, 2018 by leopardprint

[lemotomato]

Oh hell no ?

[Guest]

How on earth do they expect people to like the newbies ever again? 

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

How on earth do they expect people to like the newbies ever again? 

Oh, I can already hear the anti-OTA people celebrating. 

[Morrigan2575]

34 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I agree wholeheartedly with those who are saying there's no coming back if Curtis messes with Felicity's and Diggle's chips. That's beyond the pale. But I don't know how Rene can be walked back either, so, what do I know.

I think i missed it. Where is this coming from? Was the a spoiler I missed?

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

How on earth do they expect people to like the newbies ever again? 

Maybe they don't expect us to? Maybe we will actually be rid of them by season's end? (Sadly, I doubt it. But I can hope, right?) 

Maybe they're using Dinah to go, "See, BC doesn't work on Arrow. Do you really expect us to try with a new one again in season 7?"

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think i missed it. Where is this coming from? Was the a spoiler I missed?

I'm pretty sure it's just spec right now.

Though I did see something on Twitter earlier about someone saying the reddit spoiler guy posted and deleted that Curtis hacks their chips. 

[Morrigan2575]

I could totally be reading it wrong but, I'm expecting a Dinah breakdown realizing how far she's gone around the bend. Especially after they spent a year building the friendship/partnership between Dinah/Diggle.

[strikera0]

I really hate thinking this, but it feels like the writers are deliberately sabotaging the Dinah character to force Black Siren into her place. The writing is just too ridiculous to be believed. 

[Mellowyellow]

Dinah going off the deep end and canary crying them down is bad but not in the realms of "can't ever go back from this" for me. Doesn't your adrenalin get all nuts when you fight?

Curtis DELIBERATELY hacking at their chips is not something that can be walked back if this spec turns out to be true. It is beyond deplorable.

But then they had MM drug Thea to kill Sara and BS murdered a father in cold blood so I just don't know with these writers! 

[lemotomato]

Why would they put Dinah front and center for most of the season and then replace her with BS, who hasn't even interacted with any of the other regulars except Lance and Dinah?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I could totally be reading it wrong but, I'm expecting a Dinah breakdown realizing how far she's gone around the bend. Especially after they spent a year building the friendship/partnership between Dinah/Diggle.

I could see that happening and if it doesn't, I don't know what the hell they're doing. She's past the point of no return for me personally but others could be won over if she shows some regrets. Fandom has very short term memories, too. Haha.

(Personally I think the writers have just underestimated the audience's attachment/investment in Dinah and the rest of the newbies and were probably not prepared for the reaction they've been getting so I doubt very much they're sabotaging her character on purpose. Unwittingly, yes. Because they're dumb.)

[strikera0]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Why would they put Dinah front and center for most of the season and then replace her with BS, who hasn't even interacted with any of the other regulars except Lance and Dinah?

No idea, but they did it with Sara as well, so I wouldn't put anything past them. 

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Dinah going off the deep end and canary crying them down is bad but not in the realms of "can't ever go back from this" for me. Doesn't your adrenalin get all nuts when you fight?

Curtis DELIBERATELY hacking at their chips is not something that can be walked back if this spec turns out to be true. It is beyond deplorable.

But then they had MM drug Thea to kill Sara and BS murdered a father in cold blood so I just don't know with these writers! 

If Curtis hacks their chips, he needs to die. And as much as I dislike Curtis, he doesn't deserve that kind of terrible SL no matter what.

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Though I did see something on Twitter earlier about someone saying the reddit spoiler guy posted and deleted that Curtis hacks their chips. 

If Curtis does that there's no going back here needs to GTFO.

Unless the hacking is passive. Like Curtis hacks their chips to find their location so Dinah can get to BS. Bad but, not horrible. Horrible is Curtis disabling their chips THAT is unforgivable

Edited February 10, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[leopardprint]

Is it too much to hope that Lyla sends an ARGUS squad after Dinah and locks both the squawkers in a soundproof box and loses the key? 

Edited February 10, 2018 by leopardprint

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

If Curtis does that there's no going back here needs to GTFO.

Unless the hacking is passive. Like Curtis hacks their chips to find their location so Dinah can get to BS. Bad but, not horrible. Horrible is Curtis disabling their chips THAT is unforgivable

Yep. But it's this photo

that makes me think that something happens with Diggle's chip.  

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

No idea, but they did it with Sara as well, so I wouldn't put anything past them. 

Then they realized their mistake, brought Sara back into the universe and killed off LL. Why on Earth would they go through that again?

[strikera0]

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Then they realized their mistake, brought Sara back into the universe and killed off LL. Why on Earth would they go through that again?

And after they killed off LL, they brought back another version of her and made her a series regular. There's no rhyme or reason to their decision-making, which is why I have stopped trying to make sense of it eons ago. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by strikera0

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

that makes me think that something happens with Diggle's chip.  

If he does that, it's a massive betrayal of trust. I would want Curtis gone but, I wonder if this is supposed to be his learning experience? 

I can't imagine they want us to HATE NTA right now all they've done (except Rene) is acting like whiney, petulant, brats. This would be pretty cruel, IMO.

[apinknightmare]

That TV Line tweet makes me laugh. 

Quentin can't lead an intervention for Laurel, because no one on this show right now KNOWS this Laurel. Someone needs to lead an intervention for his creepy ass. 

[statsgirl]

It would have to be something devastating to make Curtis hack the chips and cause pain and disability to his friends.  He's never been That Guy.

26 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Why would they put Dinah front and center for most of the season and then replace her with BS, who hasn't even interacted with any of the other regulars except Lance and Dinah?

Not to mention that it would so obviously be their third failure and then fourth try to make Black Canary work. It's a pretty public admission of failure.

[thegirlsleuth]

If Curtis hacks the chips, I hope Oliver calmly tells the newbies that they have 24 hours to leave the city before he hunts them down.  

I can't believe they would go there.  That would be total character assassination of Curtis.  

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe Curtis doesn't hack their chips but he brings along some sort of tech to take down BS (instead of letting Dinah kill her since I have no idea why he and Rene would suddenly be okay with that, but I could see them staying on her side?) that somehow interferes with the chips? And that's why Oliver holds Felicity back? So she's out of range? 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I think any sort of chip malfunction would be inadvertent, like due to a glitch with tech to dampen BS's cry, or Dinah and BS screeching at each other until everything electronic within a 10-mile radius just blows itself up. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

LOL watch there be nothing chip related in the episode and we spend 3 weeks barking up the wrong tree ??

[JamieLynn832002]

Until I see it happen onscreen, I refuse to believe Curtis would hack the chips. It's so out of character even for his current incarnation of ShutUpCurtis! that I just can't fathom the writers going there.  

[calliope1975]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

LOL watch there be nothing chip related in the episode and we spend 3 weeks barking up the wrong tree ??

It's what we do here, lol. 

It does look like Digg might get caught in the birds crossfire. I wonder if the pic of him holding his arm is before or after he's on the ground. That's much more understandable than deliberate chip hacking. I can't see Curtis doing that, tbh.

[statsgirl]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, I think any sort of chip malfunction would be inadvertent, like tech to dampen BS's cry, or Dinah and BS screeching at each other until everything electronic within a 10-mile radius just blows itself up. 

And everyone around has their eyes start bleeding

[kes0704]

I admit that I don’t know whether the writers want me to love or loathe the newbies, but writing Curtis as deliberating hacking their chips would be sabotaging his character and I just don’t see them doing that. 

I guess they could write it as OTA learn what it felt like for Curtis to have his trust betrayed but it would be a massive logic leap to equate harmless GPS tracking with disabling a life altering chip. 

Also, in a show that’s had a magical villain and one that was immortal due to a special hot tub it would be completely unbelievable for Curtis to ever come back to a reunited Team Arrow after doing something like that.  

Edited February 10, 2018 by kes0704
Spelling :(

[BunsenBurner]

2 hours ago, leopardprint said:

 

Speaking of the promo I still don’t get what Rene is so mad about?

Is he jealous of The size of Diggle’s arms? 

Yes!

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

Why would they put Dinah front and center for most of the season and then replace her with BS, who hasn't even interacted with any of the other regulars except Lance and Dinah?

I really don't think Dinah is getting replaced. Not after all this effort. TPTB know LL as BC was a total failure. They might try to redeem BS but I don't think it has anything to do with putting her back in BC gear or to an attempt to make her Oliver's LI again. Both those scenarios ignore the inherent problems. Can you imagine trying to reintegrate KC in a cast that she barely interacted with this season despite being a "regular." More than chairs will be thrown, LOL! I have no idea what they're trying to do with BS but I don't think it goes beyond a story line for PB and KC. Actually, this SL makes me very worried for PB. It's like they're giving him what they probably think is a juicy story line before killing him off or sending him away. 

I'm so sorry for sending you guys in a tizzy over my Curtis spec. I don't really believe it myself but the still of Digg holding his arm and his hand in a clench made m wonder.

[Featherhat]

5 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm so sorry for sending you guys in a tizzy over my Curtis spec. I don't really believe it myself but the still of Digg holding his arm and his hand in a clench made m wonder.

Clearly something happens to his arm and therefore maybe chip damage. I would never have thought they'd write Curtis like that but anything's possible with this stupid storyline I guess. 

5 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

have no idea what they're trying to do with BS but I don't think it goes beyond a story line for PB and KC. Actually, this SL makes me very worried for PB. It's like they're giving him what they probably think is a juicy story line before killing him off or sending him away. 

I've been wondering if this is a swan song for PB. A lot of us predicted this storyline from when KC was first announced as returning, especially since KC usually did her better work with PB, but I didn't think it would get this batshit bananas (and not in a good way). I guess I can see why it might be considered juicier than picking up yet another bottle and offering Oliver/Thea support, but I can't see it ending well for Lance here, unless something changes drastically in the next couple of episodes. It will also be interesting to see if BS starts to interact with OTA at all in the back half, beyond this episode with the cabin in the woods with Creepy Quentin.

[Velocity23]

4 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Clearly something happens to his arm and therefore maybe chip damage. I would never have thought they'd write Curtis like that but anything's possible with this stupid storyline I guess. 

I've been wondering if this is a swan song for PB. A lot of us predicted this storyline from when KC was first announced as returning, especially since KC usually did her better work with PB, but I didn't think it would get this batshit bananas (and not in a good way). I guess I can see why it might be considered juicier than picking up yet another bottle and offering Oliver/Thea support, but I can't see it ending well for Lance here, unless something changes drastically in the next couple of episodes. It will also be interesting to see if BS starts to interact with OTA at all in the back half, beyond this episode with the cabin in the woods with Creepy Quentin.

I dont know it seems 6x14 is the first real interaction between OTA and BS. And afterwards its again on Lance while OTA will have the majority of scenes with Roy/Thea in 6x15 and 6x16. 6x17 seems to be Diggle centric and i dont think there were any sings yet that KC filmed for that episode.

[tv echo]

Much as I like PB, part of me hopes that the show will make us believe that Black Siren is going to be redeemed, but then in a "shocking" twist, Black Siren kills Quentin for tempting her to turn good when she just wants to be evil.

Switching Oliver's love interest at this stage would just undermine Oliver's journey and the past six seasons of the show.

Edited February 10, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

As previously reported, Kyra Zagorsky will play a character named Athena in an upcoming episode of Arrow. But did you know she also played a character named Athena in a 2012 short film titled Chained? ...

Another Fun Fact: Not only is Kyra Zagorsky married to the actor who plays Captain Singh on The Flash (Patrick Sabongui), but she has another connection to another Arrowverse actor. She was in Soldiers of the Apocalypse, playing a character named Victoria Spade, in 3 episodes from 2012-2013. That was the Canadian TV series in which EBR played a character named Fourty in 8 episodes in 2013. However, I don't believe they were in the same episodes, so they might never have met.

Edited February 10, 2018 by tv echo

[DeadZeus]

I'd be pretty annoyed if NTA and OTA fight and it ends in a draw or something... Oliver should wipe the floor with them by himself... Are ppl forgetting Nazi Oliver destroyed these fools without breaking a sweat?

They just HAVE to satisfy their audience and let Oliver make em eat dirt.... I mean... He had a plan to take down an Evil Supergirl.. So he should have plans to take down his own teammembers if needed IMO.

Having Oliver go even or get beaten by these wannabes would be a real insult. They are not even CLOSE to Oliver's lvl.. This dude can compete with the world's most toughest assassin's... NTA is just a nerd, a midget with guns and an angry chick with a loud voice.

[SmallScreenDiva]

12 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

He had a plan to take down an Evil Supergirl..

Yup, and I call BS if he and Felicity didn't come up with a sonic cry dampener to at least level the playing field with Tuna. 

[tennisgurl]

NTA has always kind of sucked, even when they were still on Team Arrow, so the idea of them defeating Oliver, a guy who was the actual leader of a League of Assassins for a bit, is ridiculous, and could only happen if Oliver and Diggle were seriously holding back so they wouldn't hurt them. I could see that happening but if they REALLY wanted to fight, Oliver could beat them all down after doing several shots of moonshine using one hand. I mean, Curtis and Rene, together, couldn't even take down Anatoli, and while Anatoli is certainly a tough guy, he isn't exactly a spring chicken anymore, and has always been more of a schemer than a fighter. So they think they can take down Oliver? Sure Jan. 

[Sunshine]

Since Lance is acting like he’s lost his mind about BS, the suspect spoiler about a LOT/Sara mini crossover in 6.18 doesn’t seem so far fetched anymore.  Who better to get through to him than his other, forgotten, daughter?

Edited February 10, 2018 by Sunshine

[BkWurm1]

On 2/9/2018 at 5:54 PM, Primal Slayer said:

At first glance, looks like Laurel has no legs, lol.  Maybe a Boxing Helena twist?  I could live with that.  Lance would totally be off the deep end but oh well!  

On 2/9/2018 at 6:06 PM, insomniadreams88 said:

Yep. But it's this photo

that makes me think that something happens with Diggle's chip.  

Does his glove over his arm look wet to anyone else?  Could be as simple as Rene shooting him?  Or some shrapnel?  

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Does his glove over his arm look wet to anyone else?

It kind of does, but in the promo for 614, there's a shot of Diggle struggling with aiming just like he was in 601, so I'm still thinking something's up with his chip. Not necessarily an on purpose manipulation of it, but at least something up with it.