Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

In other news, I hope Willa is actually filming Arrow.

YES. If they put Thea in a coma at the beginning of the season, I really hope it doesn't last too long. I want her awake by the MSF the latest. 

[LeighAn]

12 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Not as if it would make a big difference in the actual content of the character that she'd probably be getting but the season is still early and who knows if JH would come back as a villain or not.

Well judging by Black Siren so far the content is....not so great, so if I was Juliana I wouldn't aspire to the same character route. I mean last season Black Siren character was one dimensional, trashed Laurel Lance's character, got punched/knocked out by Felicity and Lance in what was largely viewed as a meta message from the writers and was somebody else's minion instead of her own villain acting on her own agenda and with her own agency.

[Primal Slayer]

And Black Siren almost killed Felicity and took multiple team ups to take her down then gets to come back full time for further exploration. In the end it's tomato tomahto.  

[scarynikki12]

The tone here is bordering on uncivil.  Having a different opinion does not make the poster wrong, nor does it mean they are violating site rules.  What IS wrong and uncivil is harassing other posters because they have different opinions.

Also, the conversation is going in circles.  If your posts are saying the same thing over and over it's time to move on.  This isn't a competition.  No one is going to win or lose here.  Move on.

We expect you to moderate your own behavior or warnings will be given.

[strikera0]

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

JHis great at interviews she knows how to keep things open without stepping on anyone's toes. Good for her.

Agreed. I have no problem with anything JH's said, but then I am not a shipper, so I don't feel like I have to mark my territory. LOL. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by strikera0

[wonderwall]

2 hours ago, strikera0 said:

I am not a shipper, so I don't feel like I have to mark my territory. LOL. 

Respectfully, maybe some shippers like myself think that entertaining questions like that and keeping it open ended means that you're essentially inviting them to ask more about something that will never happen in the future. And instead of using that time and energy to talk about something relevant, you end up talking about a pipe dream that will never happen.

Juliana did great prior to this when asked about GA/BC. Her change in tune raised my eyebrows and annoyed me a bit and it's not because I'm 'marking my territory', which I sincerely hope you rephrase because imo it's rather insulting and likens a lot of the shippers on this board to dogs... It's because it could mean a few things:

1. She's not paying attention to the show and its trajectory
2. She doesn't understand that them being together would be a detriment to both their characters because of how callous it would be with Felicity in the bunker
3. That she's gently lobbying for the LI role - which, I understand why she'd do that as an actress, but that's not in the interest of Olicity shippers which you can't blame them for being annoyed at this possibility even though there is no chance of it happening.

People are just really really tired of GA/BC. Stop trying to make GA/BC happen, it's not going to happen. The questions have gotten annoying, repetitive, and shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of the show. It'd be like if someone constantly asked Caity about rekindling her romance with Oliver years later when it's not even a thing. It's pointless and a waste of time.

Edited September 16, 2017 by wonderwall

[BkWurm1]

20 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

DR said we will see Lyla in 607 so i would guess yes. 

I will worry about Lyla's survival until after the crossover.  So right now I both love and worry that she's in it. 

Quote

She came in as an individual and now she’s part of a team, and seeing her being part of the team, you know, she just approaches things differently and I think she’s a natural leader. I feel she doesn’t consciously try to be the leader, and it’s not that she doesn’t respect that they have a clear captain, but she does have a sense of “I am the leader”, and I think she tries to take the reins somewhat

 

I swear JH said something really similar last season and nothing came of it beyond kind of keeping Curtis and Rene on a short leash and if she continues to do that, fine but I find her having the sense of "I am the leader" a really odd thing to say.  "A" leader, sure, but "the" leader is something I do not get unless what JH really wants is her own show, lol.  

[Mellowyellow]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I swear JH said something really similar last season and nothing came of it beyond kind of keeping Curtis and Rene on a short leash and if she continues to do that, fine but I find her having the sense of "I am the leader" a really odd thing to say.  "A" leader, sure, but "the" leader is something I do not get unless what JH really wants is her own show, lol.  

That whole quote about being a leader reminded me of Wendy Word Salad. 

Although I'm not supposed to say anything bad about Wendy after 520! *looks guilty*

[BkWurm1]

Quote

- Natalie said that Slade Wilson's son has been cast (for that Slade two-parter). Liam Hall (Camp, Lucifer) will play Joe Wilson, not to be confused in Grant Wilson (who appeared in LoT's "Star City 2046" episode). This is the Joe Wilson who was mentioned in S1 of Arrow, when Slade told Oliver that he made Billy Wintergreen the godfather to his son Joe. He's grown up now and he's joined the Australian secret service (intelligence service), just like his dad. After years of brutal combat, Joe finds himself in a remote Kaznian prison under the alias "Kane Wolfman," fighting for his life. It will be a two-parter.

If they keep Thea on the show and Liam's run as Joe doesn't suck, I'm half expecting them to make Joe a regular next season and set him up as Thea's new LI.  Really sounds like they are not writing him as a bad guy.  I know I'm jumping the gun but it seems to me like they are quickly setting up a kind of replacement character for Slade if DC takes Deathstroke off the table again.  (Which wouldn't surprise me)  The last new character introduced in a two-parter was Barry after all.  

Edited September 16, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Primal Slayer]

It's funny that DC/WB continue to embargo characters but are actively trying to have 2 different big screen Jokers. This has been going on since the DCAU and you'd think they'd be over it by now.

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I swear JH said something really similar last season and nothing came of it beyond kind of keeping Curtis and Rene on a short leash and if she continues to do that, fine but I find her having the sense of "I am the leader" a really odd thing to say.  "A" leader, sure, but "the" leader is something I do not get unless what JH really wants is her own show, lol.  

Maybe there's some kind of conflict with Dinah trying to lead the Team as Oliver steps back to be mayor and Dad.

[Chaser]

Based off of what MG was saying (dangerous I know) I was wondering if JH comments are more in regard to the back half of the season. Which makes me think its more connected to whatever goes down for the MSF. With Diggle taking the suit, I think he's more likely to be in the leader role earlier on.

[wonderwall]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I swear JH said something really similar last season and nothing came of it beyond kind of keeping Curtis and Rene on a short leash and if she continues to do that, fine but I find her having the sense of "I am the leader" a really odd thing to say.  "A" leader, sure, but "the" leader is something I do not get unless what JH really wants is her own show, lol.  

Yeah, her response about being a natural leader and how she'll butt heads with Oliver is the response that bothered me the most. This with Wendy saying that Dinah will make choices that will affect the team makes me really worried that the writers are going to make Dinah a nuisance instead of an asset. I simply don't understand how someone can come into a team that's been around for 5 years and then have the sense that they are "the leader" after 1 year. 

The reason why I liked Roy/Rene/Thea is because they knew they had a lot to learn and didn't try to lead the team or make dumb decisions for the team. Unlike Laurel who just barged in and started making orders (303 when Laurel called Felicity and ordered her to 'google' someone for her was the worst). So if Dinah is going to take Laurel's path in how she interacts with the team then I think the writers are setting her up to fail.

[insomniadreams88]

The best thing they can do is keep what works - OTA and the B team. I liked the dynamic we got with Dinah, Rene and Curtis at the end of season 5. That worked. Dinah trying to be the leader of the team? Nope. Not going to work. She's the newest member. Pretty sure everyone else should be the leader before her. 

22 minutes ago, Chaser said:

With Diggle taking the suit, I think he's more likely to be in the leader role earlier on.

Unless with whatever's going on with Diggle, he doesn't feel he's in the right headspace to lead the team? 

[Primal Slayer]

They brought in Dinah saying that she is Oliver's equal, it seems natural to actually follow up on that. If they do it in a good way that is a different question. 

[statsgirl]

22 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

The reason why I liked Roy/Rene/Thea is because they knew they had a lot to learn and didn't try to lead the team or make dumb decisions for the team.

Roy and Thea, yes. Did you mean Rory rather then Rene? Because Rene clearly stated on a number of occasions that he didn't take orders and knew better than Oliver what the fight required.

[wonderwall]

Just now, statsgirl said:

Roy and Thea, yes. Did you mean Rory rather then Rene? Because Rene clearly stated on a number of occasions that he didn't take orders and knew better than Oliver what the fight required.

Yep! Sorry I got them all mixed up lol

[shadow2008]

17 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Getting one, different from having one. 6 episodes in and it doesn't look like she has one yet to our knowledge so her saying Dinah isn't ready for a relationship would be true for where she is in the show at the time of filming.

I would tend to agree. JH seemed to be very excited at the prospect of Dinah getting a love interest when the cast was at SDCC, so for her to change her tune this drastically leads me to believe that there's probably little to no romantic buildup for her character in any of the episodes she has filmed thus far. Heck, for all we know, there could be a scene in one of the upcoming episodes where Dinah is still pining over her dead ex. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by shadow2008

[Midnight Lullaby]

Weren't they'd talking about her fighting skills when saying she is his equal? (Not that it makes a lot of sense given what we know Oliver has been through but we know it was "because comics" so whatever)

You can be a leader if others acknowledge you as such and we have already seen that in Oliver's absence the others naturally turn to Dig and Felicity.

[Primal Slayer]

5 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Weren't they'd talking about her fighting skills when saying she is his equal? (Not that it makes a lot of sense given what we know Oliver has been through but we know it was "because comics" so whatever)

You can be a leader if others acknowledge you as such and we have already seen that in Oliver's absence the others naturally turn to Dig and Felicity.

Isn't Dinah a former Marine? She has seen her fair share I would think.

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Isn't Dinah a former Marine? She has seen her fair share I would think.

I think the marine thing was just from the leaked sides. I don't think they mentioned anything other than her being a cop in the show (although I could be wrong). 

[Midnight Lullaby]

12 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Isn't Dinah a former Marine? She has seen her fair share I would think.

No.."only" a detective..funnily enough before choosing her in the episode they mention a few women with crazy fighting skills but then they choose Dinah that they think is more fitting to carry on LL's legacy..

Anyway I'm not saying she hasn't been through a lot or doesn't have skills, just that to call someone Oliver's equal it takes a bit more than that since we saw what he has been through and it wasn't ordinary. I know it's a talking point when they talk of the BC, whoever she is at the time, but I could see it only about Sara, given her backstory.

[DrSpaceman10]

Last season, Tinah was mostly a background character, I hope it stays that way this season too (despite the stupid promos). 

I don't get these actors/actresses who come onto an established show and talk about being the leader or romancing the lead. It's like they think the show/other characters didn't exist before they came? Or maybe it's because they get a comic name like BC or a mask, and think that means they're automatically super important? From my perspective, they should be talking about integrating into the team, building friendships, and about how much they respect what's already there. They need to earn their place, like Diggle, Felicity, Thea and Roy did, not expect to just be handed it. 

And I never get this talk about being Oliver's equal, fighting ability doesn't make you someone's equal (and as far as I can see Tinah's not even equal there). In my opinion, the only people on Arrow who ever were/are Oliver's equals are Diggle and Felicity, that's it. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

And I never get this talk about being Oliver's equal, fighting ability doesn't make you someone's equal (and as far as I can see Tinah's not even equal there). In my opinion, the only people on Arrow who ever were/are Oliver's equals are Diggle and Felicity, that's it. 

Dinah's fighting ability was only mentioned as a way to explain to the audience that she's already fully trained and we wouldn't be seeing her go through the paces like the others - I personally mind if she's considered Oliver's equal in terms of fighting ability, but I don't think they intended to convey that she's his equal in terms of seniority/leadership.

[SmallScreenDiva]

26 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

And I never get this talk about being Oliver's equal, fighting ability doesn't make you someone's equal (and as far as I can see Tinah's not even equal there). In my opinion, the only people on Arrow who ever were/are Oliver's equals are Diggle and Felicity, that's it.

A lot of the complaints about LL's BC is that she's nowhere near Oliver/GA's equal as she was in the comics. I think this is just the way Arrow decided to raise this 4th version of BC. It's been pointed out to me that everything about Tinah is basically a response to all the complaints about LL's disastrous version of BC.

[wonderwall]

I don't think they're going to tell us that Dinah is Oliver's equal in terms of leadership (yet), just the fighting skills, which, to this point we haven't even been shown that considering she uses her canary cry as a crutch and she lost to BS in the finale and will likely continue to lose against her when the show comes back. 

However, if the show tries to tell us she's Oliver's equal the way Laurel did in 405 then that will be annoying because we haven't seen her earn it like Diggle and Felicity have. And tbh I wouldn't be surprised if they did this because there's an ongoing trend on this show where the masked comic book characters often are given everything whereas the original characters (Diggle and Felicity) have to earn it. I'd like that trend to end. The comic masks have to earn their legacies on the show too. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by wonderwall

[tangerine95]

I agree there's definitely a trend of masked characters with comic book names not earning their place on the show and I think that's what makes them so easily and often replaced.Most of the time it's all tell and don't show with them and they don't have a unique or necessary spot on the show.

I seriously doubt Dinah will really be a leader apart from like among the B team like in season 5 because she does come across as more mature than the rest of the newbies.And tbh I don't even care if she clashes with the team over BS and goes after her alone or whatever,the only thing I want from her character is to keep BS her story and away from OTA as much as possible.

Edited September 16, 2017 by tangerine95

[Primal Slayer]

Having a A/B team is such a waste to me since it only causes more friction outside the show and doesn't help the show overall. Characters like Anya/Tara/Spike/Cordelia/Oz were no less Scoobies to me on Buffy then Buffy/Giles/Xander/Willow, same when it came to Angel and his cast. But the show has to decide if the amount of characters count vs. what stories they are interested in telling  

[wonderwall]

33 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Having a A/B team is such a waste to me

I agree. That's why I've always been a big proponent to the team only having a maximum of 4 members. OTA + Thea.

[statsgirl]

I really like the A/B team concept because it solves the season 5A problem for me when the show focused on Oliver training the n00bs and it felt like I barely saw the characters I wanted to see, and even when I did see them they were involved with the ones I didn't care about (e.g. Rene being the one to realize Diggle wanted to be at his son's birthday party).

I don't need anyone other than Oliver/Diggle/Felicity/Thea/Quentin actually but I know that the show needs more characters to write stories about.  Having a B team means the show spends time on the characters I want to see while opening up potential new storylines.

[tangerine95]

I think Arrow just doesn't have enough time for as many characters as it has on the team especially when most of them are masks that usually have to go through versions of a hero journey or a training arc.And they're constantly replacing them and having to do through similar arcs over and over again.Between Oliver being the lead and taking up so much screentime and the flashbacks there in every episode for 5 seasons,its not wonder they're not good at integrating new people into the team.

And I'm not even sure they exactly mean for it to feel like there's a A and B team,that's just the dynamic that gets created when they introduce new team members and then limit their interactions to mostly one or maybe 2 other people on the team or create new friendships that sideline older ones.It just makes it seem like the team isn't a unit and some of them barely interact in a real non mission related way.

Imo that's why OTA is so liked and people are so attached to it,because they bothered to created individual bonds for each of them in the early seasons and even when it gets ignored later,that foundation is always there and their scenes feel natural and earned.

[tv echo]

I love DR...

[Featherhat]

1. I'm going to just wait and see and not freak out about anything yet. Half the things people say in interviews don't pan out or are twisted beyond recognition. And she may have been 'promised' a ' leadership' role thats 1 episode or strictly B team. She'll continue to big up her BC and KC will continue to say LL is OQs soul mate and retweet and like BS redemption arc articles. It doesn't really seem as if JH has amazing Chem with SA either though I suppose a tease or 'triangle' might happen down the road since Rayporter sucked with him as well and that didn't stop them. Guess it depends on how S6 pans out. And if DC try to insist I suppose.

[Velocity23]

12 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

1. I'm going to just wait and see and not freak out about anything yet. Half the things people say in interviews don't pan out or are twisted beyond recognition. And she may have been 'promised' a ' leadership' role thats 1 episode or strictly B team. She'll continue to big up her BC and KC will continue to say LL is OQs soul mate and retweet and like BS redemption arc articles. It doesn't really seem as if JH has amazing Chem with SA either though I suppose a tease or 'triangle' might happen down the road since Rayporter sucked with him as well and that didn't stop them. Guess it depends on how S6 pans out. And if DC try to insist I suppose.

Why would they tease a thing like that. They could have teased when Felicity and Oliver were apart during season 5. The fact that they didnt makes it clear they have no intention of going there. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Velocity23

[insomniadreams88]

14 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

1. I'm going to just wait and see and not freak out about anything yet. Half the things people say in interviews don't pan out or are twisted beyond recognition. And she may have been 'promised' a ' leadership' role thats 1 episode or strictly B team. She'll continue to big up her BC and KC will continue to say LL is OQs soul mate and retweet and like BS redemption arc articles. It doesn't really seem as if JH has amazing Chem with SA either though I suppose a tease or 'triangle' might happen down the road since Rayporter sucked with him as well and that didn't stop them. Guess it depends on how S6 pans out. And if DC try to insist I suppose.

I really don't think Arrow would do a love triangle  once Olicity is married. And since that seems to be happening soon...

I'm not actually worried about ever seeing Oliver/Dinah or Oliver/BS onscreen. 

[tv echo]

JS made this joke at a previous con, I believe...

[leopardprint]

29 minutes ago, tv echo said:

JS made this joke at a previous con, I believe...

I would prefer this to an actual Olicity crossover wedding. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by leopardprint

[TwistedandBored]

3 hours ago, leopardprint said:

I would prefer this to an actual Olicity crossover wedding. 

Me too

[Featherhat]

14 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I really don't think Arrow would do a love triangle  once Olicity is married. And since that seems to be happening soon...

I'm not actually worried about ever seeing Oliver/Dinah or Oliver/BS onscreen. 

 

15 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Why would they tease a thing like that. They could have teased when Felicity and Oliver were apart during season 5. The fact that they didnt makes it clear they have no intention of going there. 

I don't think it'd likely, there's always the possibility further down the road. One of the reasons I'm leery of an early in the season wedding is the potential for shenanigans ala S4 or even Felicity's tragic death at the end ala LL and here comes DD. Again maybe not very likely but a later in the season wedding would sit better with me. And I just don't think WestAllen are going to be/stay happily married at the beginning of S4 for a show they hope to go 10 + seasons like the Arrow plot fuckery (yes I know they're very different couples). Either way I don't really blame JH for trying to big her character's importance up with hints, maybes and potential exaggerations, especially when it comes to comparing yourself to the main character ala RG last year kept going on and on about being like Oliver and couldn't seem to understand people asking about Felicity.

But like I said, I'm not particularly panicking about pre season interviews and what the actors think/have been promised/are angling to happen right now. But I think I'm going to go spoiler free now I'm going on vacation for a few days until it gets further to the premiere and try an Arrow "detox" as it were pre season spoilers drive me nuts and rarely turn out accurate.

[tv echo]

Both SA and MB missed the Saturday portions (yesterday) of their respective comic cons this weekend due to filming, so I suspect they were filming together their final Oliver/Slade scenes for 606.

Also, I assume Sydelle Noel's casting is still a spoiler, so posting her tweet here...

Nothing real spoilery, but posting here just in case...

Edited September 17, 2017 by tv echo

[Trisha]

If something he says in the new intro is too spoilery to reveal now, I'm guessing that it's him being a single dad:

 

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Trisha

[lemotomato]

That's what I thought too, but literally the only thing he has been talking about is Oliver and William, so he's already spoiled the fatherhood storyline, so I don't understand why he'd think that would be too spoilery.

[Soulfire]

Edited September 17, 2017 by Soulfire

[Chaser]

Maybe it's a recap. Something about being a father, something about his relationship with Felicity, the Team, etc.

[Trisha]

11 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

That's what I thought too, but literally the only thing he has been talking about is Oliver and William, so he's already spoiled the fatherhood storyline, so I don't understand why he'd think that would be too spoilery.

But I wondering if it explicitly says "single dad" or something to that effect? Like beyond just that he's a father, but also indicating that Samantha died? Because we know everyone else that matters enough to mention in the intro is alive (unless Thea is in a coma - but even then I can't imagine that getting an intro call out). 

[Belinea]

Is it weird to still hope that she might be in a coma and not dead? Because having Oliver as a father 24/7 still doesn't sound appealing. Who in their right mind thinks that the show needs more DadOliver?

[leopardprint]

32 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Is it weird to still hope that she might be in a coma and not dead? Because having Oliver as a father 24/7 still doesn't sound appealing. Who in their right mind thinks that the show needs more DadOliver?

Literally every single aspect of this storyline has been botched so I'm not super optimistic about it. 

I wonder if the kid is going to get as much hate for a) not being comic canon and b) "weakening" OQ like in S4? Of course William is also a male so who knows? 

Also "You Oughta Know" as Oliver's theme song? WTF? ?Please pay attention to lyrics, dude. Doesn't fit with a content, smiley character. 

46 minutes ago, Trisha said:

But I wondering if it explicitly says "single dad" or something to that effect? Like beyond just that he's a father, but also indicating that Samantha died? Because we know everyone else that matters enough to mention in the intro is alive (unless Thea is in a coma - but even then I can't imagine that getting an intro call out). 

I think he'll say he was "formerly the Green Arrow" or "with the help of my wife/family (cut to Felicity)". Perhaps the scenes with him in the suit are flashbacks? Or he's retired for one episode like in S4? 

Edited September 17, 2017 by leopardprint

[SmallScreenDiva]

I"m the mayor of Star City, a husband, a father, a friend, a team mate. I am the Green Arrow" :P

[Trisha]

21 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I think he'll say he was "formerly the Green Arrow" or "with the help of my wife/family (cut to Felicity)". Perhaps the scenes with him in the suit are flashbacks? Or he's retired for one episode like in S4? 

Ohh...I like that theory. Maybe he gives up being the GA to focus on William (which is why Diggle is in the suit for the first few eps) but he has to return to it when he realizes that Dig can't handle it because of his post-island injuries?

Do they change up the intros within the season? I know sometimes they shorten it but I can't remember if they've ever done different ones mid-season. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

I assume the new GA suit is due to the fact that Diggle stretches the old one out so much Oliver can no longer wear it.  The new arrow suit thing is getting a bit silly at this point.  Chose a look and go with it Oliver. 

Or maybe they are actually going to acknowledge that Diggle needs a "new" GA suit instead of pretending his arms are not twice the sized of SA's torso.  

I am guessing the intro is about the kid - since it seems most things will be about the kid.   I keep hoping to hear the words "boarding school" but the show continues to let me down.