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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

Or they could have moved Legends to Wednesday night for a temp 4-night event, but there's no way it makes any sort of sense to have the break.  That just completely kills the momentum (and likely the ratings). 

They could have but that would probably lead to more confusion since they would have to show a rerun after The Flash. To me, the tighter the better, it makes the experience so much better, especially if its actually good.

I really think this could lead to even better ratings then usual for the crossover.

Starfish35

Starfish35

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

They could have but that would probably lead to more confusion since they would have to show a rerun after The Flash. To me, the tighter the better, it makes the experience so much better, especially if its actually good.

No, I agree - this way is better IMO as well.  I don't think it's a sign of disrespect to Arrow - they just needed to tighten up the blocks and Arrow was out there by itself on Thursday night.   

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LeighAn

LeighAn

I guess it's easier to not care about a change in schedule if your more a fan of one of the other shows then you are Arrow, but I feel bad for the show and Stephen that a schedule the CW seems to think works fine for every other week has to be changed for crossover week that puts Arrow in the no fun spot, even if it does make it tighter.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

In the end, Stephen will still get some of the most screen time and lead character. It really isn't (imo) about about what part of the crossover you happen to be apart of. Arrow and Flash are both in the middle with 2 newbies starting and ending it. It boils down to how good the overall thing is and it would be much more disrespectful if Stephen was just a supporting character or background character in the crossover. It's the content not the schedule that should matter.

LeighAn

LeighAn

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

In the end, Stephen will still get some of the most screen time and lead character. It really isn't (imo) about about what part of the crossover you happen to be apart of. Arrow and Flash are both in the middle with 2 newbies starting and ending it. It boils down to how good the overall thing is and it would be much more disrespectful if Stephen was just a supporting character or background character in the crossover. It's the content not the schedule that should matter.

And yet Stephen would disagree with you there.

Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)

Good for him. I think he'd be a lot more pissed off if he barely got anything to do even if the crossover ended on Arrow. Being the first doesn't mean you get special treatment for life. He can take credit for Arrow  jump starting a flourishing universe but all these tv shows are not dependent on Arrow and each stands on their own. 

Edited by Primal Slayer
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I think with Arrow being at the end, the thought was the Crossover was going to be written with that in mind and sometimes the middle of a story has less action and more of the filler.  So if Arrow was at the end, it was guaranteed to get less filler.  

Thing is, often I like the filler better than the actiony resolution, lol.  Also, it could be that this time they won't really write the crossover in a way that it matters what position the shows have at the start.  For all we know, it will start with Kara and friends hitching a ride on the Waverider to Central City and end with slow dancing in the Arrow Bunker (hey, a girl can dream) Or back on Kara's earth (E16?)  

I had a thought.  We've allowed the terrible notion of them killing off Lyla for the crossover enter the universe, but what if they killed a Supergirl character instead?  How about Maggie?  We know the actress decided not to be a regular.  Maybe this would be their out for the relationship without having to break them up.  And we know that Alex and Maggie didn't wait to get married so if she died the theme of them at having snatched all the time together they could have at least would emerge.   

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

4 hours ago, Chaser said:

I think it makes sense to move Arrow. I also think it really really really sucks for SA and the show because it's a sucky position.

It's the same position of last year considering Supergirl wasn't really involved and it didn't stop them from doing the episode they wanted..

I think if they want to make the crossover feel like one big event the order of the episodes doesn't matter much because it would be like watching a four hours long "Arrowverse" episode and not one episode of Supergirl, then one of Arrow, one of the Flash and one of Legends..

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I

I had a thought.  We've allowed the terrible notion of them killing off Lyla for the crossover enter the universe, but what if they killed a Supergirl character instead?  How about Maggie?  We know the actress decided not to be a regular.  Maybe this would be their out for the relationship without having to break them up.  And we know that Alex and Maggie didn't wait to get married so if she died the theme of them at having snatched all the time together they could have at least would emerge.   

Do you want the show to commot tv suicide? They are already getting hate for SuperCorp can you imagine the backlash from not only fans but media for killing off a lesbian character and effectively end another lesbian relationship. CW reputation would be doomed.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The EPs have also undercut what SA said in another way as well...

Quote

-- On going onto the other Arrowverse shows and changing his tone, SA: "Well, I don't change my tone. I feel like that's one of the issues we ran into on the show, for me, from a creative perspective, is like, let's bend to this world. Let's not. Let's - it's called the Arrowverse. Like, let's just do what we do. Right? ... And it's like, it's really cool going to work for those people. And every set has a different vibe. Right, like, people are like laughing and joking on the Flash set...." (SDCC, Jul. 22, 2017: KSiteTV video of press roundtable interview with SA, page 4 of New Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- MG: "We’re really approaching this big four-part event as two back-to-back two hour movies, and I think when you look at it through that lens, it becomes less important for the Supergirl episode to feel like a Supergirl episode and the Arrow episode to feel like an Arrow episode, which was always our approach in the past." (TCA Summer Press Tour, Aug. 2, 2017: ComicBookMovie article, page 339 of Mind Your Surroundings thread)

What does this mean? Probably that Arrow will have to adapt its darker tone to the lighter tone of the other three shows.

Edited by tv echo
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way2interested

way2interested

18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

What does this mean? Probably that Arrow will have to adapt its darker tone to the lighter tone of the other three shows.

I think it just means that MG and the other producers won't approach each episode as an episode of that show but as one portion of a big movie (probably of the tone of LoT or Flash), so not so much of adapting Arrow to fit in with the others as not writing it as Arrow at all (which is basically the same thing, but not as surfacely compromising. Like, instead of adding too many elements to their stew, they're just throwing out the stew completely and making something else). Plus, I think SA was actually more concerned with Arrow as a show changing its tone during s4 to be lighter/more fantastical like the Flash stemming from the times they crossed over rather than just the crossovers.

That being said, I think it still could be a bit messy since this was their approach for the LoT set-up crossover and that was...not as great, whereas the first crossover only faintly connected and the last crossover connected in broad plot only (aliens) while retaining each show's tone and style and season/show themes and both were better (criticisms of 508 aside, I still think it was much better than 408).

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I think the problems with the Legends setup crossover were more content than style.  Vandal Savage was an awful villain, and the Hawks weren't great either.  Plus the terrible decision to introduce Oliver's baby mama drama - ugh.  

That said, it seems like I remember they did have a lot of trouble getting that crossover filmed - didn't they run way over their time on that? 

Anyway - personally I like the idea of them approaching it more as a movie, than as individual episodes of each show.  But that's just me.  

Edited by Starfish35
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way2interested

way2interested

Oh the story was definitely the biggest problem with that crossover. I was just noticing a correlation effect (only crossover that did the "one big story" thing was 408, whereas 508 they were more tonally separate), even though I'll admit that correlation doesn't equal causation. I think that this year's crossover will be better than the LoT one just like last year's was, but I'm just arguing for the sake of liking the separate tones for each episode of the crossover last year.

7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

That said, it seems like I remember they did have a lot of trouble getting that crossover filmed - didn't they run way over their time on that? 

Yeah, it was in the middle of different schedules for all of the shows, including LoT itself, and ran late IIRC, while last year's I think the only one really interrupted was Supergirl with its scheduling since they had to decrease MB's appearances in the episodes before/after because of shooting on the other shows. 

tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I just think it's ironic that they will be trying to have the same tone for all 4 shows for the big crossover event this year. GB has made a big deal in past interviews about how he only wants a new spinoff if it can be something different from the existing shows and about how Arrow, Flash, LoT and Supergirl are all so distinct from each other. Moreover, the Arrow EPs and the Flash EPs appear to have learned the same lesson from the past few seasons - that it doesn't work for their respective show to try to be like the other show. Last season, Flash went darker and grimmer and the hero became the villain, with mixed results. So next season, they're returning to their original light, fun tone. In S4, Arrow went more fantastical with superpowers, metas and a villain with magical powers, with mixed results. So in S5, it returned to its gritty, grounded storytelling roots and, based on MG's and WM's recent comments, it's going to stay that way for S6.

Edited by tv echo
bijoux

bijoux

I find it a little frustrating that we have basically NO spoilers about the first batch of episodes when we're already discussing the crossover. I'm not against this discussion, it's just that I'd like an inkling of what's happening on the first six episodes of Arrow.

About Quentin, if they do kill him off (which I hope they don't), what are they gonna do about Oliver's deputy mayor? Lance is perfect for that role on multiple fronts because of his experience, connections with city officials and, hard to ignore, he knows about Oliver's big green secret and can cover for him accordingly.

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leopardprint

leopardprint

11 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I find it a little frustrating that we have basically NO spoilers about the first batch of episodes when we're already discussing the crossover. I'm not against this discussion, it's just that I'd like an inkling of what's happening on the first six episodes of Arrow.

About Quentin, if they do kill him off (which I hope they don't), what are they gonna do about Oliver's deputy mayor? Lance is perfect for that role on multiple fronts because of his experience, connections with city officials and, hard to ignore, he knows about Oliver's big green secret and can cover for him accordingly.

With the recent comments from the execs and producers about how amazing S5 was, I am moderately concerned about S6. They could give more teasers about Oliver's mayoral storylines or the new villains if they don't want give up the "who lived? who died?" mystery. 

I honestly don't care about the crossovers and frankly find them annoying but then again I don't really watch the other shows. I think the journalists love them so they focus on that in their questions especially if all the execs/producers are together.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

(edited)

Yeah honestly even last year it seemed like we got more info about the crossovers than the actual upcoming episodes of arrow and it's especially like that this season because they're being dumb about the cliffhanger.It's kinda annoying tbh since I don't care about the crossovers and haven't since like the first ones,at this point I'm just hoping olicity doesn't get married then and that we get some good moments and that's basically the height of my expectations for the crossovers.

Edited by tangerine95
insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

23 minutes ago, bijoux said:

About Quentin, if they do kill him off (which I hope they don't), what are they gonna do about Oliver's deputy mayor? Lance is perfect for that role on multiple fronts because of his experience, connections with city officials and, hard to ignore, he knows about Oliver's big green secret and can cover for him accordingly.

Rene. Sadly, I'm half-serious and wouldn't be surprised if this happens. Never mind all the reasons it shouldn't happen.

4 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

They could give more teasers about Oliver's mayoral storylines or the new villains if they don't want give up the "who lived? who died?" mystery. 

Very true. Have we even gotten any comments about Oliver as mayor since S5 ended? I feel like the last time we had comments about Oliver as mayor in S6 was towards the end of S5 when WM said something very similar to what had already been said about him in S5? 

Maybe they're waiting to talk about villains until they announce the casting of Richard Dragon for some reason?

What I find strange is that in the IGN interview in the Spoilers Only thread, MG says BS and Dinah survived but won't say anything beyond that, despite RG's series regular status for S6 being announced at the same time as JH's. I wonder if they would have played coy with Dinah's status if she wasn't going to officially be BC when the season begins and they didn't want to show off her new costume and have the BC/BS fight in the trailer. 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The second IGN article (posted in New Spoilers thread) reported that Quentin Lance "is hoped to appear" in the 5th episode of LoT, "though that's not officially locked in." Rather than reassuring me of Quentin's survival, it's made me more anxious for him. It reminds me of when, after Laurel was killed off, she made these mini-crossover appearances on other shows.

I was certain that Quentin would live based on JH's and KC's comments at SDCC, and also based on how favorably his relationship with Rene was received, but now I'm not so sure. Still, I can't believe that the EPs would give up the opportunity to have Dinah and Black Siren fight over his paternal affections or to have Rene improve his standing with fans through further interaction with Quentin. So, all in all, I'm still on the Quentin survives train! Maybe he's just injured and in a coma for the first few episodes of Arrow.

Edited by tv echo
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JJ928

JJ928

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

I was certain that Quentin would live based on JH's and KC's comments at SDCC, and also based on how favorably his relationship with Rene was received, but now I'm not so sure. 

This feels like Colton at SDCC saying Roy & Sara grow closer/create more of a bond in season 3. To then just have her killed in the premier. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

6 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I was certain that Quentin would live based on JH's and KC's comments at SDCC, and also based on how favorably his relationship with Rene was received, but now I'm not so sure.

I hope I'm just reading too much into things, but I'm really starting to think he's gone.  Like you, I thought he was safe, but now....

And yeah, that Legends appearance might actually be about Sara finding out he's dead.  So that's no guarantee. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I just think it's ironic that they will be trying to have the same tone for all 4 shows for the big crossover event this year. GB has made a big deal in past interviews about how he only wants a new spinoff if it can be something different from the existing shows and about how Arrow, Flash, LoT and Supergirl are all so distinct from each other. Moreover, the Arrow EPs and the Flash EPs appear to have learned the same lesson from the past few seasons - that it doesn't work for their respective show to try to be like the other show. Last season, Flash went darker and grimmer and the hero became the villain, with mixed results. So next season, they're returning to their original light, fun tone. In S4, Arrow went more fantastical with superpowers, metas and a villain with magical powers, with mixed results. So in S5, it returned to its gritty, grounded storytelling roots and, based on MG's and WM's recent comments, it's going to stay that way for S6.

Individual shows would be different from all of them coming together for one major event. It'd be easier if they could rename all the shows for a week but of course they can't. 

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)
1 hour ago, bijoux said:

About Quentin, if they do kill him off (which I hope they don't), what are they gonna do about Oliver's deputy mayor? Lance is perfect for that role on multiple fronts because of his experience, connections with city officials and, hard to ignore, he knows about Oliver's big green secret and can cover for him accordingly.

Drop it completely or give it to Thea who is always working on stuff or screen or attending "mayor" conferences throughout the state?

Honestly it was just to give Lancr a purpose on the show with LL dead and keeping him out of the police force (reserved for Dinah?). I wouldn't expect much need for an Assistant Mayor if PB/Lance is indeed gone

Edited by Morrigan2575
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bethy

bethy

9 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

What might be a bizarre twist is if he didn't die in the explosion but BS killed him.

(Did someone already suggest this? I feel like someone already suggested this)

That would be awesome. It would cement her as a true bad guy and, perhaps, spare us Oliver moaning about whether or not she can be saved. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I'd hate the Black Siren forever if she killed Quentin.  Is that what they want?

Just because it makes a good story doesn't mean it's a story I want to see.  (Also I'm reacting to the Saving Hope series finale.)

The fact that they haven't nailed down PB for the LoT story worries me a lot.  If he were still going to be on Arrow, nailing down his appearance would be easy.

18 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think with Arrow being at the end, the thought was the Crossover was going to be written with that in mind and sometimes the middle of a story has less action and more of the filler.  So if Arrow was at the end, it was guaranteed to get less filler.  

Thing is, often I like the filler better than the actiony resolution, lol. 

I like filler episodes too, often a lot more than the action ones because they are about the characters rather than the action.  I liked 5x10(Who Are You?) much better than 5x09.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

32 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I wonder what is coming at the halfway point of this season that reaction to would help MG tell if the show would keep going and going for years or just the seven seasons.  My first thought was them out Oliver as the GA.   

Was this something they indicated in an interview, the thing about the halfway point of the season?

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