Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

I never thought about how many episodes Malcolm was in in S1, but kudos all around for making him meaningful, while not overtaking the show.

[leopardprint]

Is there a Batman villain that can be adapted like Ra's? I'm assuming Gotham has most of the big ones. 

[way2interested]

32 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

My guess is they're going for a S1/S3 formula, maybe we'll have mini bads or bads of the week?

They do still have to get through Vigilante, Helix, and Black Siren, so that makes sense.

[statsgirl]

I thought from interviews that the various members of Team Arrow were going to have their own villains, Helix for Felicity, BS for Dinah and/or Lance, maybe Vigilante for WD etc.

 

5 hours ago, LeighAn said:

I mean Oliver Queen in Smallville outed himself and still continued being Green Arrow and I believe for a period Oliver Queen was outed in even the comics as Green Arrow and still continued being Green Arrow.

But Superman's identity was still a secret, right?  (I didn't watch the show.)  On Smallville, Oliver Queen was a secondary character.  And wasn't he off for episodes at a time?

 Laurel did get a big chocolate statue as BC but she was already dead then.  It didn't matter if people knew it was her by then.

4 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm convinced GA will be outed. The show doesn't care much about real world consequences so they'll hand wave away all the deaths. I'm not a fan, but I'll just have to deal.

My concern isn't about real world consequences but about limitations in storytelling.  Yes, Iron Man is outed but that's a movie every two or three years, not 23 hour-long episodes each season.

The more people who knew Oliver was The Arrow/GA, the more outrageous the Big Bad needed to be to make the stakes worthwhile.  S1 it was businessman Malcolm Merlyn, by s4 it was DD and magic.  Chase has reached the limits of psychological torture.  If Oliver is outed, what's going to be the stakes with the next Big Bad?

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Is there a Batman villain that can be adapted like Ra's? I'm assuming Gotham has most of the big ones. 

I doubt they'll ever have permission for a Batvillain bigger than Ra's.  Bigger than Ra's would, in my opinion, include a number of the big name rogues from Bats' gallery but the one everyone can agree on is the Joker and there's zero chance Arrow will ever be allowed to play with him.  I think they'll play with a few villains during the season and then let one rise to the top for the finale.

[lemotomato]

Laura Hurley thinks it might be Lady Shiva. It's pure spec, though.

[way2interested]

32 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I doubt they'll ever have permission for a Batvillain bigger than Ra's.  Bigger than Ra's would, in my opinion, include a number of the big name rogues from Bats' gallery but the one everyone can agree on is the Joker and there's zero chance Arrow will ever be allowed to play with him.  I think they'll play with a few villains during the season and then let one rise to the top for the finale.

At least it's considerably moot since it seems like Richard Dragon's going to be the big bad anyway, so no need to really worry or even think about it for the year. 

[ComicFan777]

Onomatopoeia is another potential villain that might pop up sometime.

[scarynikki12]

5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Laura Hurley thinks it might be Lady Shiva. It's pure spec, though.

NO!  I want her on LOT.

[Primal Slayer]

I would be afraid of what they'd do with adapting Lady Shiva. 

[leopardprint]

If they have a solo female big bad, I will eat my hat, shoes and matching purse. Just from how they treated Talia. 

Also isn't Shiva closely tied to Black Canary? 

[BunsenBurner]

If they out GA the President of the US could easily say that TA are not to be prosecuted and he would absolve them because of how they saved the world.

[tv echo]

Some Arrow talk in this mostly Gotham discussion on this week's Superhero Insider podcast with Kyle Anderson and Natalie Abrams, joined by TV Guide's Damian Holbrook - posting here because they reference previously posted spoilers about BS and Vigilante...

All Things Gotham with Damian Holbrook
June 29, 2017

-- In the middle of the Gotham discussion (talking about female characters on all superhero shows this past season), Damian Holbrook brought up the CL/KC scene on LoT and how it brought "heart" to that show. Then Natalie asked him how he felt about Black Siren "going to play such a big role on Arrow next season." Damian replied: "I'm so excited. I really am. Just because it goes back to - I love the idea of her constantly sticking it to Felicity. (Natalie laughs) Like, Felicity has never had a foe. You know, she's always had like, 'Oliver, stop killing people.' Now she has somebody who she will actually go up against. And I love that idea." (*)

(* tv echo: Has Damian Holbrook even watched Arrow? Felicity has had several foes - Cooper Seldon/Brother Eye, Brie Larvan/Bug-Eyed Bandit, and Noah Kuttler/Calculator. Also, we don't know that BS will be Felicity's foe.)

-- Who is Vigilante? Natalie noted that MG has said Vigilante is someone we've seen on the show before, so she speculated that he had a smaller role before. She said that the Vigilante could be Adrian Chase's brother, Dorian Chase, and that, even though they aren't twins, Dorian could be a twin on the show and could be played by Josh Segarra. Also, she noted that Adrian Chase was actually Simon Morrison, so there could be a real Adrian Chase who turns out to be the Vigilante. Then she speculated that Vigilante could be a messed-up Tommy Merlyn, or he could be Captain Pike. She didn't think it was Paul, Curtis' husband, because Paul seems too short.

Edited June 30, 2017 by tv echo

[LeighAn]

I think Damien and Natalie watches the same version of Arrow that Reddit watches- you know the bitter version.

[leopardprint]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Damian replied: "I'm so excited. I really am. Just because it goes back to - I love the idea of her constantly sticking it to Felicity. (Natalie laughs) Like, Felicity has never had a foe. You know, she's always had like, 'Oliver, stop killing people.' Now she has somebody she will actually go up against. And I love that idea."

Has there been any indication that BS is being set up as a foil for Felicity? In 510, yes, but after that? Please stop reducing all the female characters to love interests fighting over a man, especially if you are then going to turn around and complain about "drama" and "Arrow is not a soap opera."

[LeighAn]

15 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Has there been any indication that BS is being set up as a foil for Felicity? In 510, yes, but after that? Please stop reducing all the female characters to love interests fighting over a man, especially if you are then going to turn around and complain about "drama" and "Arrow is not a soap opera."

I think it's just a way for him to keep endorsing the GA/BC thing and hoping Black Siren proves relevant when really it's more likely she is going to be a prop for a C plot character to take on the mantle they killed the character who wears Black Sirens face for.

Edited June 30, 2017 by LeighAn

[lemotomato]

After what happened in the season finale, BS could just as likely be set up at Dinah's nemesis. But I guess Natalie And Damian can't see past their desire to see someone "sticking it to Felicity" 

[wonderwall]

They also forget that Brie was Felicity's nemesis and Helix has now been introduced as Felicity's nemesis too. 

They really don't watch the show

[leopardprint]

14 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

After what happened in the season finale, BS could just as likely be set up at Dinah's nemesis. But I guess Natalie And Damian can't see past their desire to see someone "sticking it to Felicity" 

And aren't they big BC/KC/BS fans? Why would they want her story to be annoying the girlfriend of the man who doesn't want her? It's a pathetic storyline and what do they expect will happen, BS will kill Felicity and Oliver will fall into her arms? As annoying as the upcoming screech off might be, at least it will pass the Bechdel test. (Probably, 50/50)

Edited June 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

Felicity was the first non-Oliver character to have her own nemesis, the Clock King in s2. Then she had Cooper in s3 and Brie Larvin in s4 and Helix in s5.  I guess neither of them cares enough about the show to watch it.

Makes more sense for BS to be the nemesis of the new BC.  It sounds like they just want Felicity to get her comeuppance.  Or a catfight over Oliver.  Nothing is more boring than that.

[Mellowyellow]

It's not logical though. Felicity is not a mask and yet the writers wrote a scene where BS was her punching bag. 

Rather than BS "sticking it to Felicity" they better hope the writers don't let Felicity clobber her repeatedly as some sort of joke. 

Isn't "sticking it to someone" implying that you get the upperhand? So it's not even a nemesis kind of thing they are hoping for. Do they magically think that the writers are going to use Felicity, arguably one of the most popular characters in Arrowverse, as punching bag for BS? That's really stupid and embarrassing, especially when it's your job to ponder stuff like this!

[Guest]

I'm sure they might be a bit antagonistic towards each other because Felicity punched her and BS, well, helped try to kill them all and IS NOT E1 LAUREL, but if anything she's being set up as the pain in Dinah's ass. Or likely the pain in everyone's ass. So...IDK what the hell they're thinking.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited June 30, 2017 by Guest

[LeighAn]

Since Natalie participates in Reddit and Damien probably is dumb as, the rule of thumb is you can't logic reddit. It doesn't compute with them. These are the people who think Felicity was a villian in season 4 for not being able to stop and redirecting one nuke Damien launched along with 15,000 others that Felicity did stop and therefore prevented wide scale nuclear annihilation. 

See logic not compatible.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Felicity was the first non-Oliver character to have her own nemesis, the Clock King in s2. Then she had Cooper in s3 and Brie Larvin in s4 and Helix in s5.  I guess neither of them cares enough about the show to watch it.

Makes more sense for BS to be the nemesis of the new BC.  It sounds like they just want Felicity to get her comeuppance.  Or a catfight over Oliver.  Nothing is more boring than that.

Per the last two episodes of Season Five, Black Siren seems far more interested in being a nemesis for Quentin and/or Dinah.  She really didn't seem to give a shit about Oliver or Felicity.  To Black Siren, Felicity isn't an enemy, she's a victim-in-waiting, a capable victim, but still a victim.  Dinah's the one who "stole" her life and she's likely to project her weird Daddy issues onto Quentin as well.

[Featherhat]

Whilst I do think BS and Felicity will have some sort of face off  because the writers won't be able to resist, it's more likely that she'll be there for current BC and Quentin since she had that sooo not totally pointed and humiliating for KC "show down" with the character that "stole her life" that ended up with QL knocking her out and proclaiming Tinah to be the new BC in a much more anointing fashion than he did with LL's title.

Seriously, "drama and soap opera" storylines are fine if it means your personal fave "gets the guy in the end" (yeah really?) but when OQ drives off into the sunset with a non comic character and it dawns on you that the writers weren't just doing random teases before having Ollie simply bang LL again as soon as she put on the buckles, then OMG!! But think of the Comics!! It's not like Talia ended up with a lot of significance and I can see BS being used in a similar way, especially if it's true that she's an addition mostly forced on the EPs than brought back because they wanted to tell her story, almost every appearance so far has been fairly passive aggressive at LL/KC.

Felicity has had a lot of foes, most notably Helix recently, any more and we'd be seeing (more) complaints that this show is called Arrow not Smoak and who the hell is she to have a storyline that isn't limited to cheerleading Oliver. Then again there were people on Reddit thinking Oliver should get together with Samantha because she is a person he had sex with how isn't Felicity, so by that logic Oliver should be dating almost every female on the show who isn't Thea (and at the moment Tinah).

[johntfs]

2 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Then again there were people on Reddit thinking Oliver should get together with Samantha because she is a person he had sex with

Surely it was more because they had a (creepy, silent dead-eyed psycho) child together.  FYI, he also had sex with Susan if that's how low the bar goes.

[Featherhat]

8 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Surely it was more because they had a (creepy, silent dead-eyed psycho) child together.  FYI, he also had sex with Susan if that's how low the bar goes.

Well probably, but that particular argument wasn't actually being made at the time I stumbled in and out of the thread. It seemed to be basically 1) she isn't Felicity 2) Samantha's obviously awesome because Ollie had sex with her 3) she isn't Felicity.

[leopardprint]

5 MINUTES AGO, FEATHERHAT SAID:

It seemed to be basically 1) she isn't Felicity 2) Samantha's obviously awesome because Ollie had sex with her 3) she isn't Felicity.

But she's not comix cannon!?!?!?! ?

Edited June 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[Mellowyellow]

So I've been seeing some stuff on Twitter about the Olicity wedding. Some still think it'll be in the crossover. A few posts were worried they'll start s6 married!!!!!

How reliable are the spoilers? How reliable is DR?

I thought the threat of a crossover wedding was over!

[Featherhat]

10 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

But she's not comix cannon!?!?!?! ?

BecauseComics!  only applies when you're desperate to reduce BC to "GA must bang BC or it will be the apocalypse" see also every other character on this show. Well so he did, but that Canary was Sara so it also doesn't count.

 

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

So I've been seeing some stuff on Twitter about the Olicity wedding. Some still think it'll be in the crossover. A few posts were worried they'll start s6 married!!!!!

How reliable are the spoilers? How reliable is DR?

I thought the threat of a crossover wedding was over!

At this point I'm worried they'd go for a super cheesy 4 couple (one per show) wedding crossover (yikes), but at least one couple will be broken up by the next episode (or during the crossover).

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

So I've been seeing some stuff on Twitter about the Olicity wedding. Some still think it'll be in the crossover. A few posts were worried they'll start s6 married!!!!!

How reliable are the spoilers? How reliable is DR?

I thought the threat of a crossover wedding was over!

I trust DR, but we really don't know when anything he's said is going to happen or how it will happen or if there is some kind of delay or twist to what he said.  Personally, I take it at face value so I don't anticipate anyone marrying a frog eating clone, but at the same time, I have to remember that in the Green Arrow Comics they had BC marry a fake Oliver that tried to kill her on her wedding night so I can't take crazy soap opera type stuff off the table completely.  It's there in the DNA of the genre.   

So basically I'm saying it's too soon to take really anything off the table, lol.  But don't let that worry you.  We might not know what is going to happen, but nobody else knows anything either.  Right now all we have it speculation.  We can make educated guesses because of the show's history but I wouldn't take anything said right now too much to heart.  I'm just going to keep having fun that an Olicity wedding is at the center of so much spec.  

[leopardprint]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

Personally, I take it at face value so I don't anticipate anyone marrying a frog eating clone...

That's taking it back. ?

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Felicity was the first non-Oliver character to have her own nemesis, the Clock King in s2. Then she had Cooper in s3 and Brie Larvin in s4 and Helix in s5.  I guess neither of them cares enough about the show to watch it.

The first was actually Dig with Deadshot, but your point still stands and there is also Calculator to be added to that list.

[Mellowyellow]

If there is a wedding they should promote it right? So based on promotions we will know if there is a wedding or not.

I imagine they would do something if their main couple were getting married. 

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

If there is a wedding they should promote it right? So based on promotions we will know if there is a wedding or not.

I imagine they would do something if their main couple were getting married. 

Maybe, maybe not.  Every once and awhile the show has genuinely managed to surprise me.  I'm not ruling out them slipping it in at the end of an episode when I least expect it.   (Though I doubt they could do it since we have a killer spoiler network at work that figures out stuff just from seemingly random comments on Instagram but hey, maybe!)

Edited July 1, 2017 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

37 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

(Though I doubt they could do it since we have a killer spoiler network at work that figures out stuff just from seemingly random comments on Instagram but hey, maybe!)

Haha, which one was this?

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Haha, which one was this?

I was specifically thinking of some quote that KC posted while at a NY fan event that she later deleted from Instagram about finding the beauty in changes (I think it was) that made me and others think she'd been told she was in the grave.  Later it was confirmed we'd been right and she'd been told the day she'd posted the comment.  

There was also the season three posts with CH and the other masks that from the oddly sad tone told us all he was leaving way before there was even a hint anyone was going.  

Edited July 1, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

It looks like we are going to need a new flashback wig for 6x01. JH is going full blonde for S6.

Though it would be funny if they don't get her one and she walks around the island looking like she found the best colorist in between the rumble.

[bijoux]

Did she post a photo with blonde hair? Although, historically speaking with Canaries on this show, I guess she might also be getting a blonde wig after dying her hair.

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

she walks around the island looking like she found the best colorist in between the rumble.

Now I want everyone who was on the island to change their hair and have all new styles when Oliver finds them. "Do you like it? Slade did it. It was part of the therapy that created the Slade we had in the finale."

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

It looks like we are going to need a new flashback wig for 6x01. JH is going full blonde for S6.

Though it would be funny if they don't get her one and she walks around the island looking like she found the best colorist in between the rumble.

I think that's so dumb, she should keep the dark hair and wear a blonde wig. No idea why she thinks she has to be blonde in order to be BC.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

33 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Did she post a photo with blonde hair? Although, historically speaking with Canaries on this show, I guess she might also be getting a blonde wig after dying her hair.

Her latest IG vid. Her ponytail was blonde blonde. I thought it was EBR for a moment. She told a fan at HVFF she is taking it blonde for Dinah. 

I don't get. 

27 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Now I want everyone who was on the island to change their hair and have all new styles when Oliver finds them. "Do you like it? Slade did it. It was part of the therapy that created the Slade we had in the finale."

That would hilarious. I approve.

[bijoux]

39 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Now I want everyone who was on the island to change their hair and have all new styles when Oliver finds them. "Do you like it? Slade did it. It was part of the therapy that created the Slade we had in the finale."

Why not. Maybe he sets up a beauty shop. Sweeney Todd's. Top of the morning, everyone. Today I'm thinking bangs. Do I have a volunteer?

[statsgirl]

Unless she wants her fellow cops to ID her as that blonde vigilante, taking it blonde doesn't make sense to me.  Aren't disguises supposed to hide who you are?

I haven't seen what she looks like but it seems to me that her skin tone isn't going to make blonde hair seem realistic.  It's also going to make it more difficult to separate her from EBR.  (I know because I'm an Arrow fanatic but I was watching a show the other day with my kid and we had trouble telling the three men (all tall, all with medium length brown hair) apart.

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Unless she wants her fellow cops to ID her as that blonde vigilante, taking it blonde doesn't make sense to me.  Aren't disguises supposed to hide who you are?

Seeing as she made no effort to conceal her identity last season, maybe even changing clothes she wore to the coffee shop, I imagine this won't ruffle feathers.

[shadow2008]

51 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think that's so dumb, she should keep the dark hair and wear a blonde wig. No idea why she thinks she has to be blonde in order to be BC.

Yeah, it's so dumb and lame but sadly, it was to be expected. It's as if the people working on this show only have one specific look in mind for Black Canary when she was actually dark haired and wore a blonde wig for the better part of 4 decades. It's easy to blame it all on the actors, but it's just as much on the producers for not insisting on a different look for the character. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by shadow2008

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

. It's easy to blame it all on the actors, but it's just as much on the producers for not insisting on a different look for the character. 

From what I've heard, she chose to go blonde on her own. To "embrace" the Blacl Canary character. I won't blame the Producers for that, neither the network nor the producers have ever forced an actor wear their hair a specific way in the past. 

For me me rests solely on JH having only a superficial knowledge of the character and (in typical actor fashion) making superficial decisions.

[leopardprint]

So more terrible wigs to mock unless they do that weird black hole looking CGI?

It will be hard to keep track of BS/BC during the fight scenes that they like to stage in the dark with oddly colored light. 

ETA: Since CP also went blonde can we assume that's evidence that Susan isn't coming back? ??

Edited July 1, 2017 by leopardprint

[Chaser]

Both KC and JH have said it was their choice to go blonde. KC seems to prefer her hair blonde anyway. JH looks to be going for the BC look, which is unfortunate IMO.

[tangerine95]

It's going to be weird that on the show two brunettes who became BC started going blonde gradually as they put on the suit lol

I think its kinda dumb and really unnecessary to do that and that it would be smarter to be as different as possible from the previous two BC's.plus I don't think hair color means someone is a more accurate BC or something.