Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

You know, considering everything they've thrown at Felicity and how little comfort she's received, it actually wouldn't be crazy for her 5B arc to be her turning evil. (I know it'll never happen.) I really hope her 5B arc isn't her mourning Mayo. It does seem like it could be the start-up that she and Curtis pretended to be working on?

I haven't watched SA's FB video. Does he mention anything else about 5B other than truths/lie?

(Hey, maybe we can get a scene between Felicity and Thea with actual dialogue during the boys' only road trip!)

[BkWurm1]

17 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Well all I see is the comic book fans rejoicing about this episode and about the season overall. I also see Arrow writers liking tweets that says not to listen to olicity fans. I also see no mention of a couple that almost got married just a year ago. I tried my best to give them the benefit of the doubt but unfortunately this episode just made everything clear for me. I take the silence and lack of PR from the other actors as a sign that nothing is gonna get better anytime soon. 

I don't not see what you are saying but I'm not convinced it's never going to get better either.  The writers liking tweets about not listing to Olicity fans IMO is just them being thin skinned that there are complaints right now.  I think right now the show is pushing storylines that don't support olicity but I don't agree that it's dead.  Just that both don't co-exist.  For now. 

I also agree that the writers have over corrected in their attempt to reassure some viewers that Arrow isn't going to be bogged down in angst which sadly seems to IMO have translated into them writing away from Olicity ( exhibt A was the 100th episode IMO) but this episode isn't going to push me away.  What I come back to in January might still, but the MSF did enough to bring me back. And I was waiting to see it before I decided my future viewing habits.  

It was better than most IMO of the episodes this year.  Still had stuff i didn't like and I again think there's been too much focus on action and noobs and pointless plots to the detriment of heart on the show and yeah, I do think the intent is to lure back some comic types but I don't think they are trying to drive anyone away.  That's what I'm taking from the episode for now.  All hope is not lost.  

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, considering everything they've thrown at Felicity and how little comfort she's received, it actually wouldn't be crazy for her 5B arc to be her turning evil. (I know it'll never happen.) I really hope her 5B arc isn't her mourning Mayo. It does seem like it could be the start-up that she and Curtis pretended to be working on?

I haven't watched SA's FB video. Does he mention anything else about 5B other than truths/lie?

(Hey, maybe we can get a scene between Felicity and Thea with actual dialogue during the boys' only road trip!)

Maybe she spring boards from it as a "life is too short" reminder.  

Edited December 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I haven't watched SA's FB video. Does he mention anything else about 5B other than truths/lie?

He talked at length about the importance of BC to GA in the comics. Which I can only assume is his effort to butter up the comics fans to accept Juliana Harkavy's new character as the new BC, or a BC-like character.

[way2interested]

Kind of random changing of topics, but now I am more curious about the context of the possible scene with Felicity and Prometheus in 510.

[pizza pizza]

Who has the CW app bc there's a 5.10 preview clip of Oliver talking to Diggle in jail (why is he in jail? i haven't watched tonight) in the Arrow section but I don't have earphones and can't watch in public rn. I can't attach a screenshot bc the file is too big 

[JJ928]

If anyone is interested there's a clip from episode 10 on the app. I have no clue how to post it elsewhere but it's on the CW app.

[apinknightmare]

If this version of Laurel really is Black Siren - then releasing that clip is a really, really shitty thing to do to Laurel's fans given that they're playing it like the real Laurel is somehow back.

[Sunshine]

My problem with Felicity's arc in 5B being about a start-up is that I have grown increasingly cynical regarding the show.  I'm sure Curtis (male) will help with the start-up and it'll be more about the incredible inventor than her(female).  It's also not something "new" to her.  

As for her storyline beginning in 5.02 and still paying dividends in 5.12 it seems like recruiting vigilantes could be it.  She even mentioned in 5.09 that she should have vetted Evelyn better.  The title of 5.12 is "Second Chances".  Guess who the newest recruit appears to be in 5.12 - Tina/NuBC.   I think 5.10 is mainly dealing with BS which reminds Oliver of his promise to Laurel.  Felicity has probably been tracking Tina for a while.  5.11 Sees the boys road trip to Hub City.  5.12 Sees Tina in Star City.  (See Felicity's storyline - recruiting - is still paying dividends in 5.12 even if those dividends are masks).   

[Primal Slayer]

I just watched it and these writers are truly something else lol. I still am sticking with her being Siren and either playing the team or having amnesia due to Flashpoint and her being from Earth 2, flashpoint wont mix well with her.

[JJ928]

I do think Primal is right. I think this is Black Siren pretending to be LL, I don't know how long they'll drag that in the ep because I don't think KC filmed very much, so I guess they find out pretty quickly (well quick for us but I assume they go a month thinking she's LL). Also, I believe this is the episode Oliver & Felicity go searching for someone (according to the vancity paps) & going by that clip it sounds like they search for Talia (woman who trained Oliver & Prometheus in Russia). 

Edited December 8, 2016 by JJ928

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I just watched it and these writers are truly something else lol. I still am sticking with her being Siren and either playing the team or having amnesia due to Flashpoint and her being from Earth 2, flashpoint wont mix well with her.

I think she's probably conning them. But I figured they'd do their typical promo thing (like at the end of S3 when they ended whatever ep with the group being poisoned and then the preview showed them all alive) and spoil that it's Black Siren early - this just seems mean, haha.

Edited December 8, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

It will be funny that they will have ended up doing back2back "surprise" betrayals. 

[insomniadreams88]

Well, at least going off that clip, I don't think Felicity's arc will be her mourning because I don't think she'll even be grieving in 510. Mayo probably won't even be mentioned.

And I feel like this is Black Siren pretending to be LL, which probably means that no one bothered to test her beyond anything she could have read up on. Maybe they'll realize it's her when she accidentally cheers on Oliver killing Prometheus' father and then goes, "Oops, right, supposed to think that's bad. Bad, Ollie. Bad." 

[Primal Slayer]

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Well, at least going off that clip, I don't think Felicity's arc will be her mourning because I don't think she'll even be grieving in 510. Mayo probably won't even be mentioned.

And I feel like this is Black Siren pretending to be LL, which probably means that no one bothered to test her beyond anything she could have read up on. Maybe they'll realize it's her when she accidentally cheers on Oliver killing Prometheus' father and then goes, "Oops, right, supposed to think that's bad. Bad, Ollie. Bad." 

Of course if they knew about Siren, this wouldnt be a problem but we all know who we're dealing with.

[BkWurm1]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Of course if they knew about Siren, this wouldnt be a problem but we all know who we're dealing with.

Curse you Barry Allen!!  ;)

[Morrigan2575]

12 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

I do think Primal is right. I think this is Black Siren pretending to be LL, I don't know how long they'll drag that in the ep because I don't think KC filmed very much, so I guess they find out pretty quickly (well quick for us but I assume they go a month thinking she's LL). Also, I believe this is the episode Oliver & Felicity go searching for someone (according to the vancity paps) & going by that clip it sounds like they search for Talia (woman who trained Oliver & Prometheus in Russia). 

510 supposedly has Olicity looking for BC and they filmed on the same pier that the statue was filmed.  That seems to tie directly into the 2 truths, 1 lie SA just gave...so the statue is toast.

The other truth is the boys going on a road trip looking for a girl. That seems to tie directly to the diner and Tina in 511. Here's a thought, could Tina somehow be related to Evelyn? Maybe that's why they seek her out?

The obvious Lie is that LL is getting resurrected, she's not since this is Black Siren playing everyone . 

I don't think there's a direct connection between BC in 510 and Tina in 511, especially after the LL cliffhanger but, that's just me.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[JJ928]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

510 supposedly has Olicity looking for BC and they filmed on the same pier that the statue as filmed . that seems to tie directly into the 2 truths 1 lie SA just gave...so the statue is toast.

The other truth is the boys going on a road trip looking for a girl. That seems to tie directly to the diner and Tina in 511. Here's a thought, could Tina somehow be related  to Evelyn? Maybe that's why they seek her out?

The obvious Lie is that LL is getting resurrected, she's not since this is Black Siren playing everyone . 

I don't think there's a direct connection between BC in 510 and Tina in 511, especially after the LL cliffhanger but, that's just me.

So you think BC & Tina will end up being different people? I still think Tina will eventually become version #4 of BC.

I was thinking that the paps that said Felicity & Oliver go looking for a BC (not Laurel) in ep 10, were perhaps mistaken and they're actually looking for Talia. But I guess they could be looking for BS once she's outted as a fraud. The only reason I think Talia, is because of that 5x10 clip, where Oliver tells Diggle they're still locating her (his trainer from Russia) & that she moves around a lot.

I agree on there being no connection between going to find Tina in 11 & whoever they're searching for in 10.

Edited December 8, 2016 by JJ928

[BkWurm1]

18 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

So you think BC & Tina will end up being different people? I still think Tina will eventually become version #4 of BC.

I was thinking that the paps that said Felicity & Oliver go looking for a BC (not Laurel) in ep 10, were perhaps mistaken and they're actually looking for Talia. But I guess they could be looking for BS once she's outted as a fraud. The only reason I think Talia, is because of that 5x10 clip, where Oliver tells Diggle they're still locating her (his trainer from Russia) & that she moves around a lot.

I agree on there being no connection between going to find Tina in 11 & whoever they're searching for in 10.

I can't figure out the time line.  Are they really going to immediately have Felicity back at work like nothing happened?  Just a bit weird.  I don't really mind, it's just odd.   

[JJ928]

Well, she would've had a month and a half to grieve, since the show is in realtime. But even if it wasn't these people would have her working the next morning lol. I'm more concerned over all of them being dupped for a month and half by a fake LL. They're all gonna look so dumb.

[Mellowyellow]

I was hoping they'd bring back whatever incarnation of Laurel. She decides to be not evil and resume mantle as BC. Flies off somewhere and fights crime. Pops back on occasion if they need her.  Olicity reunite.

What I fear is that they are selling Tina as NuBC and having the whole GA/BC love story again. I  could sorta stomach this if Felicity had her own story line and did her own thing and got lots of screentime. But I think chances are they'd just shaft her.

On the bright side I'll definitely continue watching because my only child is starting preschool the week Arrow airs again so I'll need to watch to have something to focus on/freak out about rather than sit outside the preschool crying like a loon! 

[Chaser]

49 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think she's probably conning them. But I figured they'd do their typical promo thing (like at the end of S3 when they ended whatever ep with the group being poisoned and then the preview showed them all alive) and spoil that it's Black Siren early - this just seems mean, haha.

I can't figure out why they are bringing her back after an episode of 'closure'. Just seems weird.

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I was hoping they'd bring back whatever incarnation of Laurel. She decides to be not evil and resume mantle as BC. Flies off somewhere and fights crime. Pops back on occasion if they need her.  Olicity reunite.

What I fear is that they are selling Tina as NuBC and having the whole GA/BC love story again. I  could sorta stomach this if Felicity had her own story line and did her own thing and got lots of screentime. But I think chances are they'd just shaft her.

On the bright side I'll definitely continue watching because my only child is starting preschool the week Arrow airs again so I'll need to watch to have something to focus on/freak out about rather than sit outside the preschool crying like a loon! 

I believe you have it in you to do both!  :p  ;)

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

I can't figure out why they are bringing her back after an episode of 'closure'. Just seems weird.

Probably just to fulfill the terms of whatever contract she gouged from the CW. I'm guessing she'll show up on LoT too, otherwise "regular on all 3 shows" wouldn't be true

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

They're all gonna look so dumb.

Wouldn't be the first time. 

[statsgirl]

Even weirder since MG said that they were positively, absolutely, completely  not going to backtrack on the important death in s4.  They've done nothing but backtrack since.

Do you really think people are going to buy Tina as Oliver's new love interest?  Olicity fans will rage because of what they did to  Felicity in this episode.  Laurel fans will be mad when they figure out that this is the Black Siren, not the Black Canary. Neither group will be open to supporting Oliver in a new love interest, and if viewers don't like Tin/BC, they will have wasted the energy spent on her for no purpose. 

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Kind of random changing of topics, but now I am more curious about the context of the possible scene with Felicity and Prometheus in 510.

I'm sure it will be nothing other than possibly Felicity being damseled.  The message of this season is that the regular female characters, Felicity and Thea, don't matter.  You've got to have a penis or have Oliver's in you to matter.

[BkWurm1]

12 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

Well, she would've had a month and a half to grieve, since the show is in realtime.

They don't usually follow real time right away for the winter return though.  Usually a couple days at the most and then a time jump.  

[lemotomato]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Wouldn't be the first time. 

These were the same people that worked with Malcom Merlyn for half a season, so, yeah.

[calliope1975]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Do you really think people are going to buy Tina as Oliver's new love interest?  Olicity fans will rage because of what they did to  Felicity in this episode. 

Honestly, I don't know how many Olicity fans will be left. It's been one hit after another this season combined with some truly shitty comments from BTS folk. 

I don't think the writers are writing for comic lovers or shippers or anyone in particular. I think they're writing the story they want to; I'm just no longer interested. Maybe the last 1/3 of the season will offer something I'm into. 

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe they'll have Black Siren comforting Felicity while she's conning the team. Maybe she says something while doing so that leads to Felicity seeking out Prometheus, and then of course, the masks will save her. And at some point during this, maybe Barry will call and go, "uh, so someone escaped from the pipeline and you might recognize her..." 

[calliope1975]

Will BS learning about LL lead to more canonization of the character who was bravestronglovedwithherwholeheart? (tm Carly Corinthos) 

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe they'll have Black Siren comforting Felicity while she's conning the team. Maybe she says something while doing so that leads to Felicity seeking out Prometheus, and then of course, the masks will save her. And at some point during this, maybe Barry will call and go, "uh, so someone escaped from the pipeline and you might recognize her..." 

Could "Laurel" be another layer of Prometheus's plan?  Maybe Evelyn gave her the codes?

Tina being a NuCanary or not, is this really the time to introduce new people to the team????

Edited December 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I think if "Laurel" is part of Prometheus's plan, she will probably be dead by the end of the season. So no, I think she's the Black Siren so she can come back again and again.

I've always thought Laurel had a lot in common with Carly Corinthos.  Longevity and the conviction that only she is right are just two.

14 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I don't think the writers are writing for comic lovers or shippers or anyone in particular. I think they're writing the story they want to; I'm just no longer interested.

"Writing the story they want to" is still no excuse for shitty writing and deliberately manipulating their audience.  Even less excuse for manipulating and baiting their most active viewers.

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

These were the same people that worked with Malcom Merlyn for half a season, so, yeah.

I'm wondering what she's gonna tell them about how she's back? Based on the clip it seems like she doesn't try and pass it off as Flashpoint since Oliver specifically mentions getting her up to speed on what's happened since she's been gone. Is she gonna claim there is another Lazarus Pit they don't know about and that someone they don't know dunked her in it? Is she gonna be like, "I just woke up one day and was alive again?!" Oliver just saw Sara say goodbye to dream world Laurel and was present when she said that she desperately wanted Laurel back but knew she couldn't use time travel to accomplish that so he'd know she didn't have anything to do with it.

Seriously, what way do they accept this Laurel without looking like total morons, haha. 

[Chaser]

I haven't seen the clip but it sounds like a lot of stupid.

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Could "Laurel" be another layer of Prometheus's plan?  Maybe Evelyn gave her the codes?

Tina being a NuCanary or not, is this really the time to introduce new people to the team????

I'd assume they changed the codes after learning about Evelyn's betrayal. Maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit to think of that  

And yes, bad time for new team members. Why can't they just bring her in as a cop? They need one they can trust. But if WD does know her, maybe he vouches for her so they can just ignore that issue?

[calliope1975]

Just now, statsgirl said:

"Writing the story they want to" is still no excuse for shitty writing and deliberately manipulating their audience.  Even less excuse for manipulating and baiting their most active viewers.

I agree completely; I just don't think they care. It's frustrating as a viewer who was borderline obsessed with this show and took off work for this season's premiere. Now I wonder why I bother at all (though I can't quit the board yet.) I'm sad about Olicity but the fact that they've made me dislike Oliver this year is almost worse for me. TPTB's reaction to criticism is terribad, and their feedback loop being about 8 episodes out means if it's going to get better it's going to take a while to get there.  

Did no one on The Flash make a phone call after BS showed up last season? 

Re: Tina - they can't effectively write for the characters they have so of course, let's add another one. The question is will Tina actually get a POV or will her entire story be to service Oliver/Wild Dick/Whatever Male Character is nearby? I'll eat something (no hats please) if Tina passes the Bechdal test with anyone. 

[Chaser]

Tina seems headed for a mask. I think that ups her odds at getting her own POV. It's one of the reasons I want her and Felicity to be close, I want some of that to rub off.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Chaser

[wonderwall]

On 12/6/2016 at 5:09 PM, apinknightmare said:

My guess: It was red. 

 

Or "I killed Billy." 

Our new seer

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

They don't usually follow real time right away for the winter return though.  Usually a couple days at the most and then a time jump.  

S1 and S2 both jumped weeks between MSF and Winter Premiere. S3 and S4 cut to immediate pick up with a time jump later in the episode or in later episodes.

It's 50/50 as to which model they follow.

[Velocity23]

https://twitter.com/AmellDaily/status/806775018952609792

Sneak peak from 5x10 from the CW app. And Arrow returns on 25th January

[Morrigan2575]

Just watched the clip on the CW App. I'm glad they have Diggle deciding to legally fight the crap charges. That should have been his story from 503/504, not breaking out of prison.

I wonder who the lawyer is? It can't be Chase, right?

[bijoux]

I think it is Chase, not that it makes any sense whatsoever. Or, for even more giggles - Laurel.

What does Dig say after they talk about finding Prometheus' mother? What happened...?

[Morrigan2575]

Diggle asks Oliver about the dude that trained the two of them (Prometheus and Oliver). Oliver responds that "she" doesn't stay in one place for too long and he's trying to track her (Talia) down.

[bijoux]

Ah, thanks. I thought somebody was on the train. 

I am a big fan of Dig's trump charges being dealt with head on, but I am laughing hysterically over how blase they are being about a dead person being resurrected and apparently letting her stay in the bunker where they'd just had a traitor. Nope, nothing suspicious there.

[Velocity23]

Nvm.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Velocity23

[apinknightmare]

48 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I am a big fan of Dig's trump charges being dealt with head on, but I am laughing hysterically over how blase they are being about a dead person being resurrected and apparently letting her stay in the bunker where they'd just had a traitor. Nope, nothing suspicious there.

I hope the next clip they release includes whatever assumption it is they're working under for why Laurel just popped up one day - miraculously alive - in the lair, and everyone just accepts it. I had anticipated her showing up while Oliver and the gang were out fighting or something, not insinuating herself into the group as the real Laurel. 

[spartan]

Yessss yess katie cassidy is back, laurel lance, but it's surely black siren, she will be fun and very sexy, can't wait

[LeighAn]

I'm putting this out there as a long spec Felicity is the one who leaves town this season and next season Oliver (and maybe Diggle) bring her back. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm really curious about Felicity and Prometheus in that 510 BTS picture from EBR. Does Felicity go and confront Prometheus in anger? Is she having a nightmare? Does Prometheus find her and try to emotionally manipulate her?

[Chaser]

I'm confused about what they are doing with Laurel. This doesn't seem to fit BS. She seems more like a character to destroy the lair as a greeting then insert herself into their lives.

It got me thinking about Flashpoint. We know it didn't change anything with the real Laurel, but what if it changed things for E2 Laurel somehow? The time ripples or something screwed her up in the prison because she's from E2. Her loss of memory may not be an act, she could think she is the real Laurel. She could remember half way thru the episode and go BS.