Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

Thinking about it, kidnapping Diggle might be the smartest move Prometheus can make because they can't bring the police in on it (or even at least the ACU, since the police probably can't be trusted) or anyone outside their circle (including ARGUS) since Dig is a fugitive right now. What would they say - "Hey, so our friend we broke out of prison got kidnapped. We need to use some help getting him back but then please don't turn him in"? The same is true if Prometheus hurts him - if it's bad enough, they can't bring him to a hospital and will have to rely on whatever they have at hand in the bunker.  

[bijoux]

That's an excellent point. I dig it. Lame pun intended.

[Cleanqueen]

Susan and Billy are goners, I can't believe they were included in the promo. Man I'm so pumped for 5x09.

Also that red pen spoiler, I don't think it's during the 1x03 scene but definitely something that happens at a later time. In those 5x09 stills oliver and Diggle are in the bunker and I don't think Oliver joined diggle until 1x04/1x05. So it's definitely around 1x06 time frame. I assume the flashbacks will be during a specific period in season 1. 

[looptab]

3 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Thinking about it, kidnapping Diggle might be the smartest move Prometheus can make because they can't bring the police in on it (or even at least the ACU, since the police probably can't be trusted) or anyone outside their circle (including ARGUS) since Dig is a fugitive right now. What would they say - "Hey, so our friend we broke out of prison got kidnapped. We need to use some help getting him back but then please don't turn him in"? The same is true if Prometheus hurts him - if it's bad enough, they can't bring him to a hospital and will have to rely on whatever they have at hand in the bunker.  

Agreed. That's why I hope they go for that rather than anyone else. For one, they've all been in danger before, Plus, should the whatever Prometheus is going to do involve Susan, who would even care? 

Question, were there other sneak peeks besides the producer's preview, the Queen family scene, and the one where curtis interrupts Felicity?

Edited December 1, 2016 by looptab

[Chaser]

Producer's Preview. Queen Family Scene. Cisco meets Boobs.

That scene that they moved from the 100th episode to 5x09. I wonder if it's the Olicity flashback.

[looptab]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

Producer's Preview. Queen Family Scene. Cisco meets Boobs.

That scene that they moved from the 100th episode to 5x09. I wonder if it's the Olicity flashback.

Thank you. Reading back on the thread I saw gifs of Laurel's pendant that came out before the episode so I wondered. :)

Wait, did they move an actual scene? I thought Marc said that he moved what he would have envisioned doing for the 100th (flashbacks to S1).

[Midnight Lullaby]

I understood what he said like @looptab and that in particular he was referring to whatever clue from season 1 will reveal something about Prometheus.

[Chaser]

I need to reread that then. I thought there was a scene that didn't 'land right' so he moved it to 5x09.

[insomniadreams88]

I'm just hoping we get a lot of confusion over Evelyn's betrayal and when it happened because it makes absolutely zero sense. And it's never a good sign if, as an EP, you have to reveal something like that in an interview because what was shown on-screen doesn't make it clear. (Much like having to explain episodes in tweets.)

Also, I kind of expect Prometheus to kill Evelyn because she's no use to him anymore after she tells him what she knows and the team finds out she's on his side. 

And if I'm right, the only times we see Thea and Felicity in the promo are the photos on Prometheus' board, right? We have photos of Felicity with Oliver and Diggle, but nothing of Thea, right? 

[looptab]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I need to reread that then. I thought there was a scene that didn't 'land right' so he moved it to 5x09.

I remember him saying that about something they are reshooting for 510 or 511, not that they moved a scene. But I could be wrong - I've read too much stuff lately that it's all a mess lol.

Edited December 1, 2016 by looptab

[Chaser]

I reread the quote about moving his idea to the 101, but I swear there was something else said. I remember the phrase 'land right', but I don't remember where I read it.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I reread the quote about moving his idea to the 101, but I swear there was something else said. I remember the phrase 'land right', but I don't remember where I read it.

He said it in an article a few days ago-he mentioned that they reshot a scene for 5x10 or 5x11 - can't remember which - because it didn't land right for emotional payoff later in the ep. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

4 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Worst case scenario? Felicity's kidnapped while Oliver's off with Susan. Maybe that last scene with him is him returning to the bunker after being out with Susan and finding some message left for him by Prometheus (because Evelyn told him where the bunker is) that he has Felicity? 

Since S5 is all about lazy repeats from other seasons, let's do the Huntress holds Felicity captive while he bones McKenna scenario with the Rayporter and Prometheus.

[tv echo]

MG comments on 509:

Quote

-- MG: “There was a lot of temptation to do the crossover at a different time or, like you [suggested], ‘cheat the math... but I actually took an idea that I had for the 100th episode and moved it to the 101st, and that is ‘flashbacks to Season 1,'” as a new clue surfaces linking the villain Prometheus to Oliver’s past. “That was something that I wanted to do for the 100th episode, but there just wasn’t any room to tell a flashback story.” (Nov. 29, 2016 TVLine article, page 49 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- MG: "I think the circumstance that the Dominators placed him under in the 100th basically sort of forced him to double down on his mission, essentially to have the mental and emotional strength to pull away from the temptation of this alternate reality that the Dominators had created for him. Oliver had to re-commit to his own mission. ... This whole thing has only reminded him that there’s so much more work to do, of course this being Arrow that’s usually the moment where we pull the rug out from under Oliver. I think without overstating things I think that’s very much sort of what happens in our mid-season finale next week where Oliver will re-iterate to Thea and to the other characters how re-committed he is to his mission. However, without spoiling anything, circumstances will transpire in that episode that will make that newfound drive far more difficult for him to make good on." (Nov. 30, 2016 Deadline article, page 193 of Starling City Times thread)

MG comment on 510:

Quote

-- MG: “We never skimped on the writing, the production or in the post-process going, ‘This is going to be one of those stinkers, we might as well cut our losses and move on... We worked as hard as we possibly can on the scripts. If episodes have come in bad, we reshoot. We’re going to pick up a scene for episode 510, not because the scene didn’t turn out well, but because there was just one moment that wasn’t landing the way it needed to land to pay off another moment. Even in season 5, we have no problems with doing reshoots, or pickups, or anything we need to do to make each episode as successful as it can possibly be.” (Nov. 29, 2016 Entertainment Weekly article, page 49 of Spoilers thread)

Edited December 1, 2016 by tv echo

[arjumand]

16 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Especially when it doesn't make any kind of sense. Oliver's a hypocrite because at one point he was on a mission to kill people but he stopped her after he realized that was wrong and stopped her from doing something he thought she'd regret, so...she teams up with another murderer and puts all the people who were nice to her in danger. 

This is really fucking terrible - she became a mole, JUST LIKE THAT! Lol.

So, I'm off to watch the new trailer, let's see:

Evelyn: "This city. Needs to be saved. FROM you."

Oh my fucking god. Holy freaking shit. You know what, just get rid of her. Maybe she was a collective hallucination we all had, and she just vanishes. I really don't care, at this point. Also, whoever put that line in the trailer really, really hates MM. That was terrible.

[looptab]

Also, and maybe that's just me, but I think  the mole reveal would have been more effective later in the season. Right now, the fact that she's a traitor doesn't really have that much of an impact - we don't even know her.

[Chaser]

I'm inclined to think they realized very quickly that MM wasn't working so they threw together this solution.

What annoys me about it is instead of laying groundwork for it they basically ignored MM. Maybe if they took 5 mins from WD (or Curtis), this would make more sense.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Chaser
I don't like Curtis either.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

I'm inclined to think they realized very quickly that MM wasn't working so they threw together this solution.

What annoys me about it is instead of laying groundwork for it they basically ignored MM. Maybe if they took 5 mins from WD, this would make more sense.

Maybe they thought this was better (it's not) - "Look! It came out of nowhere! Surprise mole!"- and considering their thoughts on the new season in general, I wouldn't be surprised. 

I'm worried that removing Evelyn from the picture is just going to lead to more of WD instead of Rory, like it should. (But then again, maybe they'd mess up Rory too if they did too much with him, kind of like how I liked Curtis last season and not as much this season.) 

[Belinea]

For real, is there anyone who wants/needs/asks for more Wild Dog? I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone. Maybe there are fans which is totally fine. But me personally, I couldn't care less.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think anyone gets kidnapped. IIRC the picture that EBR posted on Halloween (with Prometheus) was from the end of 510 filming.

[insomniadreams88]

Oliver and Barry at a bar - is that from the LoT episode of the crossover or 510? Didn't someone say Barry's in 510 (related to the Black Siren appearance), or am I remembering incorrectly? 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Does anyone remember which episode they were filming when Bamford talked about Felicity punching someone?

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Oliver and Barry at a bar - is that from the LoT episode of the crossover or 510? Didn't someone say Barry's in 510 (related to the Black Siren appearance), or am I remembering incorrectly? 

So far that stuff about Barry being in 510 is spec, there's nothing from the show (that I recall) about Barry being in 510.

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Does anyone remember which episode they were filming when Bamford talked about Felicity punching someone?

Also 510, I believe.

[DrSpaceman10]

I really hope 509 is the last episode we see Mayo in. Felicity breaking up with him, him being revealed as evil and then him dying would be my ideal scenario :)

[SmallScreenDiva]

11 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

I really hope 509 is the last episode we see Mayo in. Felicity breaking up with him, him being revealed as evil and then him dying would be my ideal scenario :)

Add stalker reporter in the gone list and I might come back for S5B.

[Mellowyellow]

I hate the reporter. Hated her being Louis Litt's LI on Suits and I hate her here. 

[sara1121]

17 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Given the context the "magic" is related to Olicity.

Seems to me that 508 and 509 are being used to setup my Feb Sweeps reunion. LOL

You seriously think there's even the slightest chance of a Feb sweeps reunion?  I recall no positive spoilers at all for Olicity apart from  some quote about magic. Yeah that sounds completely reliable. And the other spoiler is from jbuffyangel about people being really happy about a flashback? This is someone who thought 5x05 was going to be an amazing Olicity ep. So forgive me for not being all excited about what will be at most a 30 second flashback to something that happened 5 years ago.

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

No, no no, not possible. Promos never lie, Oliver is totally in love with Susan! Just like Felicity had no role in 508 other than Ray's arm candy.  Olicity was totally trashed for Lauiver in 508 and, of course Oliver totally called Laurel Pretty Bird because all the show cares about "catering" to comic fans.

Of course Felicity won't even appear in 509 except for a brief scene declaring her undying love for Billy while telling Oliver he needs to go find his real soulmate, the next chick to done black leather and a blonde wig. ?

Many comments in the thread state that Felicity's role in 508 was disappointing. And, given what was seen on screen, what Marc Guggenheim and SA etc have been saying in interviews, at cons and on social media, the other comments were way more likely to happen  than Oliver and Felicity getting back together within the next 3-4 episodes (or pretty much ever).

Edited December 1, 2016 by sara1121

[CabotCove]

Quote

No one is going to even talk about the Ray/Felicity scenes if there are any *wails*

 Im now soured of them because of the way Ray was treated in the love triangle in S3 ,  but  I like BR & EBR chemistry together. If I get reassurance they are going to treat Ray with respect in this relationship, I would be cool with Ray/Felicity friendship and cute (crossover) scenes. Well on LOT, Arrow writers, I don't trust. The R/F 5.08 scenes were not bad though, hope you enjoyed. 

Quote

 Olicity was totally trashed for Lauiver in 508 and, of course Oliver totally called Laurel Pretty Bird because all the show cares about "catering" to comic fans.

what fan talk rule, right....?

Edited December 1, 2016 by HeroLeague

[dtissagirl]

33 minutes ago, HeroLeague said:

what fan talk rule, right....?

Another rule is if you find a post problematic or against the rules you flag it to the mods. Commenting on it is also frowned upon.

[tv echo]

1 hour ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Does anyone remember which episode they were filming when Bamford talked about Felicity punching someone?

Yes, it was during the shooting schedule for 510...

On Oct. 28, 2016, JBam tweeted: "@EmilyBett Quite the right hook, eh?" And in response to fan who asked if he was going to let EBR do a stunt for once, JBam tweeted: "She's standing right in front of me....would you like me to pass on a message from you?" He also tweeted a pic of himself with EBR. And in response to fan who asked for three words to describe EBR's fights/stunts this season, JBam tweeted: "@EmilyBett Hmmmm....... Wicked Right Hook." In response to fan who asked if EBR will do stunts this season, JBam tweeted: "Yuppers." In response to fan who asked if she has a badass right hook, JBam tweeted: "Most def.."
(JBam tweets, page 47 of Spoilers thread)

Edited December 1, 2016 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

Ok, this has been bugging me, so I'll just ask.  What happened with Donna anyway?  Because I could have sworn that there were spoilers out during the summer about Donna being Lance's rock after losing Laurel, but then they're suddenly broken up, and no sight of her, and nothing on anything further about Felicity's father either when I thought we were going to get more about him this year.  So what happened?  Did I just dream all that, or did they really get that spooked by the "Felicity and friends" thing? 

[Chaser]

All we got was Lance saying they broke up over the summer and I think he said she was in Vegas. 

IMO I do think the Felicity and Friends thing spooked them. It's stupid as hell but I take comfort in knowing Felicity and Friends got better ratings.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I absolutely think they got spooked by Felicity and Friends. The only reason that makes sense to me as to why suddenly there's nothing for Felicity at all. Not in story. Not much on social media. I mean, they still use her to draw fans (almost all the promos during crossover feature her) but nothing beyond that. Which is really silly. Because Felicity is really popular, despite what the Reddit folks say. And IMO a good portion of people being pissed with S5A is the fact there's nothing for her. Now, let's see if that changes in S5B, if they'd gotten any feedback on it.

Edited December 1, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[CabotCove]

Quote

Oliver and Barry at a bar - is that from the LoT episode of the crossover or 510? 

where is the clip?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, this has been bugging me, so I'll just ask.  What happened with Donna anyway?  Because I could have sworn that there were spoilers out during the summer about Donna being Lance's rock after losing Laurel, but then they're suddenly broken up, and no sight of her, and nothing on anything further about Felicity's father either when I thought we were going to get more about him this year.  So what happened?  Did I just dream all that, or did they really get that spooked by the "Felicity and friends" thing? 

I think they got spooked. Felicity has been well and truly put back in her comic relief box, IMO. That means no job, no family, no friends. Nothing outside of the bunker.

Yikes. It's even worse when you lay it all out like that.

[Belinea]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

 No friends. Nothing outside of the bunker.

 

But how can you forget Billy, the afternoon delight guy... She has him. She has a spring in her step because of him. Maybe nobody can see it but it should be there. That is what I was told. 

[Chaser]

Hey now! She went outside long enough to get a condiment. 

The lack of story (outside of recruiting the team and the brief Havenrock) doesn't bug me so much because they are trying to establish these new characters on the Team. Narratively I can understand the others taking a backseat for now. What gets me more is the radio silence from EBR and all the social media accounts pulling back on anything Felicity. That tells me they don't want anyone focused on Felicity right now at all. Everything on the action and masks and other relationships. Which tells me after five seasons they are tone death.

[looptab]

16 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

here were spoilers out during the summer about Donna being Lance's rock after losing Laurel,

Those things were said right after Laurel's death, I think. So about the last part of S4, specifically when he had to choose whether to admit or deny that he knew she was a vigilante.

Edited December 1, 2016 by looptab

[Starfish35]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I think they got spooked. Felicity has been well and truly put back in her comic relief box, IMO. That means no job, no family, no friends. Nothing outside of the bunker.

Yikes. It's even worse when you lay it all out like that.

Ugh. :(

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Belinea said:

But how can you forget Billy, the afternoon delight guy... She has him. She has a spring in her step because of him. Maybe nobody can see it but it should be there. That is what I was told. 

Sorry, I tend to erase gross things from my memory otherwise I won't keep my food down, haha.

[looptab]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

That tells me they don't want anyone focused on Felicity right now at all. Everything on the action and masks and other relationships. Which tells me after five seasons they are tone death.

You know, I don't know about that. I mean, I hate that it seems like they want to ignore her  - social media-wise - but maybe it's done to keep the haters at bay and not giving them any more reason to be hateful. On the other hand, I don't like that they're giving them this power. I don't know. I go back and forth on this.

[GirlvsTV]

35 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I absolutely think they got spooked by Felicity and Friends. The only reason that makes sense to me as to why suddenly there's nothing for Felicity at all. Not in story. Not much on social media. I mean, they still use her to draw fans (almost all the promos during crossover feature her) but nothing beyond that. Which is really silly. Because Felicity is really popular, despite what the Reddit folks say. And IMO a good portion of people being pissed with S5A is the fact there's nothing for her. Now, let's see if that changes in S5B, if they'd gotten any feedback on it.

It's mind boggling to me they might have decided to make such a large character / relationship / story shift based on . . . what? Some internet comments? I mean, Olicity peeps have proven they have the power to attract / create buzz for the show but their concerns get dismissed, while some dudebro comic stans complained last year and were listened to? It hasn't worked either. The shift didn't bring any viewers back and probably even resulted in them losing even more. I just don't see how they could have looked at the ratings and buzz for season 4 and come away thinking the largest problem to solve for season 5 was Felicity and her family. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[insomniadreams88]

28 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I think they got spooked. Felicity has been well and truly put back in her comic relief box, IMO. That means no job, no family, no friends. Nothing outside of the bunker.

Yikes. It's even worse when you lay it all out like that.

It really is. And it makes me think that if Donna comes back, it'll be all about Lance's storyline, not even Felicity's. After all, we haven't even heard her mentioned in relation to her own daughter, just the line about the break-up, and she left town with Lance at the end of S4, even after everything her daughter had been through. Yes, Lance needed someone, but I feel like Felicity did too last year. 

And sure, she has Mayo, but I feel like at the end of the day, the focus of however that ends probably won't be about her. If he's good and gets killed, it's because he was helping the team/part of the ACU/maybe her boyfriend. (They'll probably have her say it wasn't real so she can just move on without them having to show her grieving.) If he's evil and working for Prometheus, it probably still won't be about her, other than another man in her life who lied to her (and maybe they'll try to use it like, "Well, see, Oliver lying about his son isn't so bad!") Hey, maybe they'll just repeat the Ray breakup and have him tell her that she loves Oliver because they love repeating storylines and then he'll leave town. (In which case, poor Tyler Ritter. He would have deserved so much better.) 

I'd love for them to prove me wrong and for Felicity's 5B arc to be something spectacular. Arrow writers, I'm challenging you to do that.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, this has been bugging me, so I'll just ask.  What happened with Donna anyway?

I talked with Charlotte Ross at HVFF SJ, and she told me TPTB did talk to her about coming back to the show. My impression was that negotiations stalled over money, billing, or commitment to how many episodes they could give her-- she mentioned that she had been on the show for 2 seasons and filming in Van meant being away from her kid. So when talks stalled, she booked other projects to work on. She added that she was talking with the producers again (this was in mid-August), so there was a chance of getting Donna in 5B, but since we haven't heard anything about her coming back, I'm guessing that didn't go anywhere.

I'm surprised that apparently no one talked to CR at HVFF Atlanta or asked if she'll be coming back?

Edited December 1, 2016 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, sara1121 said:

You seriously think there's even the slightest chance of a Feb sweeps reunion?  I recall no positive spoilers at all for Olicity apart from  some quote about magic. Yeah that sounds completely reliable. And the other spoiler is from jbuffyangel about people being really happy about a flashback? This is someone who thought 5x05 was going to be an amazing Olicity ep. So forgive me for not being all excited about what will be at most a 30 second flashback to something that happened 5 years ago.

I don't think i ever said you had to like, believe or feel what i like believe and feel. 

You don't think Olicity will ever get back together? I disagree. I'm not telling you I'm 100% right and, I'm not forcing you to agree with me. 

44 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, this has been bugging me, so I'll just ask.  What happened with Donna anyway?  Because I could have sworn that there were spoilers out during the summer about Donna being Lance's rock after losing Laurel, but then they're suddenly broken up, and no sight of her, and nothing on anything further about Felicity's father either when I thought we were going to get more about him this year.  So what happened?  Did I just dream all that, or did they really get that spooked by the "Felicity and friends" thing? 

Quote

Based on what CR said at CoH2 I think it is all about money and contract status. CR wanted Series Regular role and, I don't think the show was willing to give her that contract. That's why Donna was written off, nothing to do with fandom, everything to do with money. Which is usually the case

[tangerine95]

I do think they got affected by the Felicity and friends stuff based  on how much they pushed the it's all about Oliver narrative in interviews this season but I don't think it affected their writing that much. Imo Felicity isn't any more sidelined or has less of a storyline than any of the regulars.They've all been reduced in screentime and storylines.

Thea just has her job that seems like it's more about having someone actually do mayor business than about her, she's been pushed out of the team, doesn't seem to have a personal life storyline and is getting less screentime than last season. Digg got his storyline rushed through just like Felicity with Havenrock and he's stuck in the bunker.Lance went from having a big storyline with DD, actually being more of a part of the team and having a romantic relationship to now just a repeat of his falling off the wagon storyline only with much less screentime. 

And I think that was all done because they added so many characters that are  basically getting treated like regulars.There's no room for so many characters especially on a show that spends at least 10mins on flashbacks and is also so Oliver centric and imo it's really showing.When it comes to how they promote I have this weird feeling that they think that the more popular aspects don't allow for new things they try to be accepted and liked. So when they need to push new characters or relationships they push them hard all the time and pretend the older ones don't exist.

[Mellowyellow]

I so badly want you to be right @Morrigan2575. Forget hat eating, you can slap me if they do get back together in February ?

[Chaser]

11 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I talked with Charlotte Ross at HVFF SJ, and she told me TPTB did talk to her about coming back to the show. My impression was that negotiations stalled over money, billing, or commitment to how many episodes they could give her-- she mentioned that she had been on the show for 2 seasons and filming in Van meant being away from her kid. So when talks stalled, she booked other projects to work on. She added that she was talking with the producers again (this was in mid-August), so there was a chance of getting Donna in 5B, but since we haven't heard anything about her coming back, I'm guessing that didn't go anywhere.

I'm surprised that apparently no one talked to CR at HVFF Atlanta or asked if she'll be coming back?

I think I read this and forgot about it. It's nice to know they were at least talked to her about coming back. Is it terrible to hope they got TA instead?

[bijoux]

Not from where I'm sitting. I don't mind Donna not being around this year, they really went overboard with her last season. I can take a breather. Noah has potential though.

Edited December 1, 2016 by bijoux