Spoiler Discussion Thread

[DrSpaceman10]

Mmm I would probably say that the EP's/writers have said that her and Oliver aren't over for her to make a statement like that. I mean as much  we don't want to admit, she has insight that we as viewers don't to the show. 

 

And Stephen Amell said O/L are over for good. Frankly based on past interviews by both KC and SA, I trust SA. 

[Sunshine]

Well if she thinks there is a Laurel/Oliver/Felicity triangle going on she must think it's Felicity and Oliver vying for her affections.  I guess we are in the Felicity loves Laurel stage based on the quote.

[Password]

You know I'm really starting to wonder about KC. Where did this triangle come from? I'm so sure the only supposed triangle right now is Ray-Felicity-Oliver? Is she talking about some ongoing triangle we know nothing of or...?

[Velocity23]

He said the ship has sailed for both S/O & L/O at SDCC. She is most likely getting a new love interest next season. At least according to MG.

[ban1o]

And Stephen Amell said O/L are over for good. Frankly based on past interviews by both KC and SA, I trust SA. 

I don't think he's ever said that. The only time  I remember him saying something like that was at comic-con which he retracted later and said "for this season"  

 

TBH I can't really imagine them going into the Laurel/Oliver relationship again and I don't see how they would write that. I'm just saying it's not impossible. 

[KirkB]

Maybe Katie doesn't really read the scripts (beyond her own specific lines) anymore than she does the comics, so she doesn't actually know what is going on with the other characters and is just guessing?

 

As for the show stuff, does it specifically say Quentin and the police force will be hunting Oliver Queen? Or does it mean they'll be after the Arrow, who is obviously Oliver? Because if it's the former then Malcolm or Slade (or Ra's for that matter) could frame Oliver for some crime so he has to go on the run. If they're after the Arrow it could related to that Arrow fighting Arrow picture we saw recently. Someone dressed as the Arrow doing stuff to get the cops after him.

[Velocity23]

This just sounds like she wants to be brought into the game as the Arrows LI once again, nothing else. Probably hoping on the COMICS excuse.

[Chaser]

I think the biggest difference in terms of response is KC is never say never/maybe down the road while SA puts Laurel squarely in the past.

[tv echo]

Maybe the L/O/F love triangle is one of the game-changers?

[dtissagirl]

There were a couple of interviews from the TCAs wherein Stephen said Laurel and Sara were part of Oliver's past. And he heavily implied there were staying in the past, because Felicity was Oliver's match.

To be honest, I basically have one rule in life: if you use the word "soulmate" unironically, I'm gonna point and laugh at you forever. KC has been using it for years, so. *points and laughs*

[SonofaBiscuit]

It's also strange that KC said this:
 

And with the writing, they [Oliver and Felicity] have good chemistry but I think at some point maybe far later down the line we may explore that… getting back into Laurel and Oliver romantically but it is absolutely not in her wavelength at all right now.

 

 

Does she actually believe that chemistry comes down to writing?  Maybe she's thinking that since the writers are giving her a better story (in her opinion, not mine), she will now have chemistry with SA?    

[quarks]

To get back into the lead role, Katie Cassidy needs to be the love interest again. It's not happening (see my lengthy post over on the Relationships thread.) And Ban1o, I'd actually say the direct opposite - she's admitted in this interview that you don't always end up with your soulmate, which means someone on the show has told her this is not happening.  During the TCAs, Amell was pretty clear that Laurel was a past relationship. 

 

A couple of us have talked about this elsewhere, but generally speaking, when shows completely switch love interests, instead of continuing to play them as a triangle (hi, Lost, Scandal, Reign), they usually kill off the original love interest and/or send that person off on a bus (hi, OUAT, the 100, Parks and Recreation), which results in the actor losing a job, unless the actor is lucky enough to have this become a spinoff into a new show while continuing to have a lingering role (hi, Angel.)  Thus Katie Cassidy's need to portray this as a love triangle. Television history is really not in her favor here.

[Belinea]

Maybe I have been watching a different show but I have yet to see Oliver and Laurel interact a lot this season in a meaningful way. Maybe they will start that up again tonight but so far the only triangle I see them trying to do is Oliver-Felicity-Ray. 

[Password]

It's also strange that KC said this:

Does she actually believe that chemistry comes down to writing? Maybe she's thinking that since the writers are giving her a better story (in her opinion, not mine), she will now have chemistry with SA?

I also caught that. It reminded me of when SA said Ray and Felicity (or BR and EBR) are doing a good job of creating chemistry.

Are they manufacturing chemistry because it's written? In which case high five!!!!

[Sunshine]

It's also strange that KC said this:

 

 

Does she actually believe that chemistry comes down to writing?  Maybe she's thinking that since the writers are giving her a better story (in her opinion, not mine), she will now have chemistry with SA?    

I was just going to say the same thing.  Oliver and Felicity were never intended to be romantic.  It wasn't the writing.  Even if she gets a great story-I haven't seen it yet-it still doesn't make up for her lack of chemistry with Amell.

[Chaser]

It's also strange that KC said this:

 

 

Does she actually believe that chemistry comes down to writing?  Maybe she's thinking that since the writers are giving her a better story (in her opinion, not mine), she will now have chemistry with SA?    

Maybe she thinks their chemistry will improve because half of their face will be covered.

 

I had to laugh at that response though because SA gave a similar one when asked about Ray and Felicity. The writers have managed to generate some chemistry.

[Starfish35]

I don't think he's ever said that. The only time I remember him saying something like that was at comic-con which he retracted later and said "for this season"

The part he qualified by "this season" was the part about Felicity being the only woman for him. He has never to my knowledge retracted the part about Laurel being in the past - in fact he reiterated it at the TCAs.

If KC thinks there is a Felicity/Oliver/Laurel triangle going in.....I don't even know what to say to that. And here I was giving her credit for finally giving up on the "soulmates" thing. RME.

[tv echo]

From MG's USA Today interview...

“Three things really come to a head with her: her grief over Sara’s death, her efforts to cope with that grief by trying to walk in her sister’s boots, and also the guilt that comes with keeping Sara’s death a secret from her father. All of these things are weighing on her. I wouldn’t say all three are resolved but all three come to a really pitch boiling point.” [about tonight's 'Canaries' episode]
*  *  *
“I always leave it up to the audience as to what the right thing or the wrong thing to do was, but ultimately I was pretty satisfied of the balance we struck of three episodes of Oliver not in Starling City and a reduced presence of Stephen Amell on the screen. But you want to get back and tell some more stories with Team Arrow.”
*  *  *
“Thea obviously doesn’t know Malcolm’s true involvement in Sara’s death. There’s a big ticking timebomb of this new unholy alliance. Things are going to get interesting with our new threesome there.”
*  *  *
“How does that team dynamic down in the lair work if things are a little chilly on the personal side between Oliver and Felicity?”
*  *  *
“Not at first, or perhaps ever. He’ll do very cool things — it just won’t involve shrinking.”

Edited February 11, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

One thing's for sure, the more KC says this kind of stuff, the more attention fandom gives her. I'm pretty convinced someone did stats analysis on negative attention being as good as positive for the CW, really.

[Guest]

How interesting that KC has an interview about Oliver/Laurel the same week MG has said romance is off the table between Oliver and Felicity...

[Carrie Ann]

Off of the laughable L/O/F non-triangle for a minute, do any of you think it's possible that SA really does want to lighten his episode/time commitment to the show so he can do movies or something? And that they're using this season as a transitional season, so that next year, he's not even necessarily in every episode? That seems insane to me, but...so does every other decision they're making if the purpose is NOT to lessen his screentime.

[BkWurm1]

In one of the interview, SA talks about running into Laurel in the field as Buckanary and that he shakes her hard (may or may not have made it into the episode).  He goes on to say something about not going easy on her for fear of not being respectful to the character (I assume future BC) but the thing is, I don't care how kick ass or strong someone is, if there is EVER even a HINT of a romantic relationship, then shaking hard had better NOT be part of it.  It's just another layer of toxic for me. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Mmm I would probably say that the EP's/writers have said that her and Oliver aren't over for her to make a statement like that. I mean as much  we don't want to admit, she has insight that we as viewers don't to the show. 

 

So she has more insight into the show than Stephen Amell? Nah, I think it's more likely she got backlash from her own fans after that tweet with #Olicity. I mean, they're killing themselves trying to keep Lauriver/Lauliver (what the heck is their ship name?) alive and the actress is tweeting the other hashtag, LOL!

[apinknightmare]

In one of the interview, SA talks about running into Laurel in the field as Buckanary and that he shakes her hard (may or may not have made it into the episode). He goes on to say something about not going easy on her for fear of not being respectful to the character (I assume future BC) but the thing is, I don't care how kick ass or strong someone is, if there is EVER even a HINT of a romantic relationship, then shaking hard had better NOT be part of it. It's just another layer of toxic for me.

Did he mean physically shakes her or rattles her psychologically? Because I'm okay with the mental rattling because she's being a dumbass. I really hope they don't go there on the first one, because...ugh, no.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I've wondered if SA wants to spend more time at home with his baby, and maybe that's why they're phasing him out of the show a bit.  Couldn't they have used the Oliver-less episodes to give us Felicity and Diggle flashbacks, though?  That would have been preferable.

 

I mean, KC has filmed episodes 13-18, so she knows things that we don't, but if there is even a whiff of romance between Laurel and Oliver, I am so outta here.  Hell no.

 

Did he mean physically shakes her or rattles her psychologically?

 

 

He meant physically shaking her.  Per Amell "The first time that Oliver as Arrow encounters Laurel as Canary, I grab her and shake her; I did that on purpose and I really hope that it stays in the episode because I feel like if I treat her with kid gloves, it’s not giving respect to that character.”

Edited February 11, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[BkWurm1]

Maybe KC was a Dawson's Creek fan.  I guess the soulmates on that show just remained BFF's.  Or maybe I should say ended as just BFF's.  Didn't watch but the show was famous for everyone dating everyone, I think. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by BkWurm1

[ban1o]

I'm against Oliver physically shaking Laurel because he disagrees with what she is doing. Hope that isn't in the final cut. 

[Belinea]

 

Did he mean physically shakes her or rattles her psychologically?

 

I thought he meant physically but maybe he just lashes out.

 

Regardless of whether or not we watch the same show as KC, you have to admit that she is consistent with her 'soulmate' line. Not a lot of people call O/L that often anymore but she sticks with it. She must have the uttermost faith that she will ultimately get her way. 

 

As for SA and his reduced screen time: For me the show doesn't really work without SA. IMO, he needs to be the main protagonist so that the show can work. And while the new toys might be grand and all, in the end he makes the show. 

[BkWurm1]

From the Variety interview with SA

.

I’ve been very thankful that the producers have allowed Oliver to not treat the Laurel character with kid gloves, and to very much be… almost rough with her, in the sense of, ‘get out. You’re not wanted here.’ The first time that Oliver as Arrow encounters Laurel as Canary, I grab her and shake her; I did that on purpose and I really hope that it stays in the episode because I feel like if I treat her with kid gloves, it’s not giving respect to that character.”

 

Yeah, I do think it was him physically shaking her.  They might still have cut it, but I don't want that kind of mentality in a romantic relationship.  Training is one thing, being willing to rough someone up out side of that is another. 

[calliope1975]

Also per Guggenheim: 

 

Who exactly is he communicating with?!!!

 

I am continually surprised at how bad MG is as a writer and interview. I shouldn't be, but every new interview, I find new ways to shake my head in disbelief. Heaven forbid you take a critical look at your own work. Jeez, he's a hack.

 

HAHAHAHA TRIANGLE. HAHAHAHA.

Never change, KC. You bring me joy in life with your terribleness.

 

The delusion is strong in this one. And your comment is still making me laugh.

 

Yep, every spoiler and interview drives me further and further away. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm against Oliver physically shaking Laurel because he disagrees with what she is doing. Hope that isn't in the final cut. 

 

Yeah, I don't think that will go over well at all.  MG will probably receive a lot of backlash on Twitter if they leave that in.  

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, I don't think that will go over well at all.  MG will probably receive a lot of backlash on Twitter if they leave that in.  

I'll be honest, for that reason alone I really hope they left it in. 

[CabotCove]

It makes no sense to get the audience angry at Felicity and Ray when they want viewers to like him enough for his own show.  Hopefully one of the three EPs has some sense.

 

Shippers are hardly the main part of the audience. And if there is an Atom show and its good, comics fans and new fans (who might not even heard of Arrow) will more than make up for the viewership. The show will hardly be affected  because Ray took "Oliver's girl" at one point. We knew a new love interest for Felicity was coming since he was "Daniel", what has changed now, wouldn it be such a waste if he was there and he or their relationship wasnt treated seriously.

[Chaser]

I think it supports my theory that SA doesn't like the character. He probably just wants to shake Laurel himself.

 

I think it depends on the 'shake.' If it just kind of a hands on the arms and jolt her, I wouldn't have a problem. If its a legit, rough shake then I don't like that. 

 

They may keep it in because they want audience to side with Laurel and its easier if they make him a bully.

[KenyaJ]

He meant physically shaking her.  Per Amell "The first time that Oliver as Arrow encounters Laurel as Canary, I grab her and shake her; I did that on purpose and I really hope that it stays in the episode because I feel like if I treat her with kid gloves, it’s not giving respect to that character.”

 

How soulmate-y.

[statsgirl]

 

You’re different and you have this incredible heart and drive, and everything inside of you — you’re doing this not only for your sister but for you, and the city, and because you care so much and you’re choosing to do it."

I guess this is the "moment" she and Felicity have that MG was talking about - because Felicity is totally going to be that "somebody."

Didn't we already have that scene in 311?  Except Felicity never said anything about "you have this incredible heart and drive, and everything inside of you — you’re doing this not only for your sister but for you, and the city, and because you care so much ".

 

I love that she's moved into the "Oliver and Laurel are soulmates but sometimes soulmates are just best friends.  Reading the writing on the wall, honey?

 

 

Good grief. Either KC knows something is coming with Oliver or she doesn't understand anything about Oliver.

The latter. Something she has in common with Laurel.

 

Mmm I would probably say that the EP's/writers have said that her and Oliver aren't over for her to make a statement like that. I mean as much  we don't want to admit, she has insight that we as viewers don't to the show. 

I'd say she has more access, not insight.  I'm sure the EPs told her that there is a chance Oliver will end up with Laurel because as MG said, anything can happen (and it seems like she only gets excited about doing p.r. for the show when she thinks things are going her way) but right now, they're getting a whole lot more positive press out of Olicity than they ever got out of Lauriver and even more than they're getting out of Laurel's BC arc.  They're not going to throw that away for a relationship a minority of viewers want.

 

 

Maybe Katie doesn't really read the scripts (beyond her own specific lines) anymore than she does the comics, so she doesn't actually know what is going on with the other characters and is just guessing?

There are some actors who do that, and from what she's said about the show in the past I'd say that's a good possibility.S

 

Someone told her that there is a triangle on the show this season, and she assumes it's Laurel/Oliver/Felicity instead of Oliver/Felicity/Ray.

Edited February 11, 2015 by statsgirl

[ban1o]

Even if they never go in a romantic direction with them again I'm opposed to the shaking. It  seems excessive and almost abusive on Oliver's part. But it's probably not as bad as how Stephen made it sound I guess. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by ban1o

[Password]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a good shake. They need Oliver to be a dick, why not an abusive one?

The way they treat women on this show is appaling.

[kismet]

Is anyone on board or interested in a love triangle on this show? I mean people may like 2 people paired together more so than others... but I've yet to read anywhere that ARROW fans are clamoring to watch love triangle play out whether it is R/O/F or L/O/F. Personally even MG's comments about doing a triangle but not doing a triangle are a little ridiculous! Write to your strengths, romantic triangles with lead actors are not one of them, for evidence I produce T/L/O from S 1.

 

Not sure if is its been posted yet, but Paul Blackthorne & Charlotte Ross tweeted the lost adorable photo of them.... I hope they do try to get them together... I do not want to see Quentin hurt, but maybe he's the one that winds up in the hospital, MS is by his side to help him. Since there will be fall out from the Sara lie, LL will probably not be welcome or know that QL is in the hospital so she would not visit. But since, Felicity is a good person - she'll visit MS & QL. It would be so nice to have the potential of happiness for QL & the possibility of more screen time for MS in future episodes.

[Belinea]

*Insert sarcasm* Well that might be a form of affection that very, very  few people get. Because cheating isn't a good enough obstacle. You need to overcome cheating  and abuse in order to be true soulmates. 

 

 

Who exactly is he communicating with?!!!

Sometimes it just gives one such a headache. Oh, MG is probably communicating with KC. So they are on the same page. ;-)

Edited February 11, 2015 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

I think it supports my theory that SA doesn't like the character. He probably just wants to shake Laurel himself.

I think it depends on the 'shake.' If it just kind of a hands on the arms and jolt her, I wouldn't have a problem. If its a legit, rough shake then I don't like that.

They may keep it in because they want audience to side with Laurel and its easier if they make him a bully.

Same. I'll have to see the shake. And I think there are very few ways you can do that and have it be okay, and I don't trust these people to be able to do that. And I agree, I think they'll leave it in because it makes Oliver look like a bully, and they'll further hope to get people on her side with Felicity giving her another pep talk.

[KenyaJ]

I’ve been very thankful that the producers have allowed Oliver to not treat the Laurel character with kid gloves, and to very much be… almost rough with her, in the sense of, ‘get out. You’re not wanted here.’

I find the way Stephen phrases this really fascinating. Not "I need you to stop this because I care about you and I want you to be safe," but "GTFO." Honestly, KC can spin whatever fantasies she wants in her head, but the way Stephen talks about Laurel and the way he talks about Felicity are so night and day. It's obvious that what he wants for his character and what Katie wants for hers are diametrically opposed.

[Carrie Ann]

Someone told her that there is a triangle on the show this season, and she assumes it's Laurel/Oliver/Felicity instead of Oliver/Felicity/Ray.

 

Ray who? If Laurel hasn't shared a scene with him, KC is probably not aware he's even on the show, let alone keeping track of his story.

 

What's funny is how hard the show is working to make KC happy, and make Laurel happen, and it's like KC just sees that as her due, and expects all that and more. She wants every bit of what she thought she was getting when the show started, and nothing will dissuade her. There are some actors out there who want a challenge; who want to go where the story takes them; who want to go to the tough places. But not her. She made it quite clear that she hated all that stuff last season and was just gritting her teeth until she got that jacket.

 

I have two dealbreakers with this show: Lauriver Part 3, and Oliver no longer being the solo lead. If it appears that either of those things are going to come to pass when this season ends, I'm out.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Tallis]

This is the same police force that deserted the Glades and gave it up to Brick without a fight.

Or possibly not given those canadagraph photos show Central City police cars.

[blixie]

 

hey might still have cut it, but I don't want that kind of mentality in a romantic relationship.

 

I don't want it in a non-romantic relationship either. Putting hands on her is gross, telling her what she can and can't do with her life such as it is, is gross. He doesn't need to support her in any way, and he can tell her he thinks it is foolish and stupid, but that's where he needs to stop and otherwise peace out.

Edited February 11, 2015 by blixie

[Password]

It seems wildly out of character for Oliver to lay hands aggressively on a woman who cannot defend herself against him. Has he ever just started a fight with a woman?

[calliope1975]

I find the way Stephen phrases this really fascinating. Not "I need you to stop this because I care about you and I want you to be safe," but "GTFO." Honestly, KC can spin whatever fantasies she wants in her head, but the way Stephen talks about Laurel and the way he talks about Felicity are so night and day. It's obvious that what he wants for his character and what Katie wants for hers are diametrically opposed.

 

I will never forget SA's face when that interview said they thought Oliver is still in love with Laurel. It will always make me laugh. I think he's pretty clear on how he feels about revisiting that relationship again. Doesn't mean the writers won't make him go there.

[ban1o]

I don't want it in a non-romantic relationship either. Putting hands on her is gross, telling her what she can and can't do with her life such as it is, is gross. He doesn't need to support her in any way, and he can tell her he thinks it is foolish and stupid, but that's where he needs to stop and otherwise peace out.

I agree. I definitely have to disagree with Stephen. Hope that was cut. 

[statsgirl]

I'm against Oliver physically shaking Laurel because he disagrees with what she is doing. Hope that isn't in the final cut. 

But this isn't Oliver.  He came back as The Arrow, don't ya know?  That's his excuse and MG is sticking to it (if he leaves the scene in).  And if he does, you can bet it will show how strong Laurel is to oppose Oliver after that.

 

 

Is anyone on board or interested in a love triangle on this show?

---

Not sure if is its been posted yet, but Paul Blackthorne & Charlotte Ross tweeted the lost adorable photo of them..

I think  he's really trying to get the Smoakin' Captain ship going.  He must get tired of having to play hard ass opposite KC.

 

Personally speaking, the only kind of triangle I have ever liked is person A/person B/ principles e.g. Felicity/Oliver/working with MM.

 

Shippers are hardly the main part of the audience. And if there is an Atom show and its good, comics fans and new fans (who might not even heard of Arrow) will more than make up for the viewership. The show will hardly be affected  because Ray took "Oliver's girl" at one point. We knew a new love interest for Felicity was coming since he was "Daniel", what has changed now, wouldn it be such a waste if he was there and he or their relationship wasnt treated seriously.

True not everyone is a shipper but that's how they introduced Barry, through Felicity, and that's how they're trying to get the audience to like Ray, through Felicity.  Make no mistake, in spite of what AK says, the point of Ray/Felicity is for Ray, not to give Felicity a choice.

Edited February 11, 2015 by statsgirl

[blixie]

Yeah I was SMDH when SA said Oliver wasn't respecting her as character if he wasn't tough on her choices, oh honey no, you are in no way respecting her AGENCY as a character, if you want to shake her out of decision you think is dumb, and also REALLY Oliver, Head  up your Ass Man, working with Malcolm Merlin man? YOU want to judge other people's decisions? NOPE.

Edited February 11, 2015 by blixie