Spoiler Discussion Thread

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

My guess is that the crossover involves a prison break - and all the criminals help Oliver out (becoming the good guys) and the guards/cops try to stop him (becoming the bad guys). 

God, I hope not. Just because I don't want Oliver separated from Diggle and Felicity for seven episodes. 

[way2interested]

39 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Is that them agreeing with a critical complaint over Oliver being out of costume, or agreeing with a critical complaint that the whole kerfuffle over the suit and the moniker was stupid?

I guess both. Like, they realized that it didn't work so they wrapped up the parts they could and ensured that it wouldn't happen again. But, given that, I wouldn't think they would revisit a similar aspect of one of the complaints (removing Oliver from the team and the suit until right before the crossover) just because they removed another part of it (putting Diggle in the suit).

I guess with DR's comments the issue would be what does Oliver going to Gotham to meet Batwoman have to do with heroes becoming villains and villains becoming heroes, not that Oliver in prison would cause the plot and that Batwoman would just be the Captain Marvel of it all.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I guess both. Like, they realized that it didn't work so they wrapped up the parts they could and ensured that it wouldn't happen again. But, given that, I wouldn't think they would revisit a similar aspect of one of the complaints (removing Oliver from the team and the suit until right before the crossover) just because they removed another part of it (putting Diggle in the suit).

If I knew more about Beth’s inclination as a show runner I’d feel more confident in the length of the prison storyline. Marc and Wendy tended to rush pretty much everything, and every Marc said it was discussed as a 5 episode arc. I’m just not as sure as some people that we’re going to come back and he’s going to get out right away. It seems like a waste to put Oliver in prison and have him get out right away (for us), but this is Arrow, so. 

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I’m just not as sure as some people that we’re going to come back and he’s going to get out right away. It seems like a waste to put Oliver in prison and have him get out right away (for us), but this is Arrow, so.

Oh I don't think he'll get out right away. I think it'll still remain the 5 episode arc at most (with the recurring tech person being Oliver's ally and probably another antagonist for him in prison and another separate plot). I just don't think it'll last through the crossover which was originally brought up.

[Angel12d]

I don't see the prison storyline being resolved in the first episode either. I think it will be 3 episodes as a minimum. I do think stretching it to the crossover is way too much and keeps him separated from everyone too long though. But IDK, maybe that's what they want?

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But IDK, maybe that's what they want?

I don’t know if they want that specifically. But I’m assuming (possibly incorrectly!) that a retooling of an Escape from Supermax script includes an actual escape. If he made a deal with Watson, why is he escaping? Wouldn’t he be let out once he’s completed his part? I guess an escape could be part of what he’s working on, but that seems stupid (but this is also Arrow, where that’s par for the course). 

He admitted to the thing he went to prison for, so it’s not like he’d be escaping so he could exonerate himself (unless he tries to walk back outing himself), so if he does that then he’s a fugitive. Having an escape caper to kick off the crossover and having Oliver and co head off whatever disaster is threatening Gotham/the world, making way for a pardon that makes way for Oliver to be a free man seems like a pretty natural chain of events to me. Otherwise I just don’t see how he escapes and then isn’t a fugitive. But maybe they’re scrapping the escape part, and he just gets casually let out of Supermax for whatever plotty reason they come up with. 

[Angel12d]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I don’t know if they want that specifically. But I’m assuming (possibly incorrectly!) that a retooling of an Escape from Supermax script includes an actual escape. If he made a deal with Watson, why is he escaping? Wouldn’t he be let out once he’s completed his part? I guess an escape could be part of what he’s working on, but that seems stupid (but this is also Arrow, where that’s par for the course). 

He admitted to the thing he went to prison for, so it’s not like he’d be escaping so he could exonerate himself (unless he tries to walk back outing himself), so if he does that then he’s a fugitive. Having an escape caper to kick off the crossover and having Oliver and co head off whatever disaster is threatening Gotham/the world, making way for a pardon that makes way for Oliver to be a free man seems like a pretty natural chain of events to me. Otherwise I just don’t see how he escapes and then isn’t a fugitive. But maybe they’re scrapping the escape part, and he just gets casually let out of Supermax for whatever plotty reason they come up with. 

That makes sense. So they can do their escape from Supermax whatever and then he's pardoned for helping save the day in the crossover. Yeah. I can see them doing something like that.

It's still a really long time to have him separated from everyone though, which kinda makes me like this: ??

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It's still a really long time to have him separated from everyone though, which kinda makes me like this: ??

Maybe he gets word of something happening with Felicity and William and breaks out to prevent that and gets some info or leverage to bargain for his release/a pardon? IDK 

I’m just spitballing here, LOL 

[way2interested]

But even if they wanted to incorporate an escape to it, why almost double the original number episodes they originally planned on for the arc (making it 8 or 9 instead of 5) and then have it resolved not on Arrow (with his plot presumably kicking off on Supergirl or LoT rather than actually on Arrow)? It makes as much sense to me to just do it during November sweeps (which could still be 705) and have him get back into the suit on Arrow right before the crossover which is exactly what they did in s6 .

[JJ928]

I think Oliver will be in Jail 3/4 episode max, and I think those eps will focus heavily on him.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, way2interested said:

But even if they wanted to incorporate an escape to it, why almost double the original number episodes they originally planned on for the arc (making it 8 or 9 instead of 5) and then have it resolved not on Arrow (with his plot presumably kicking off on Supergirl or LoT rather than actually on Arrow)? It makes as much sense to me to just do it during November sweeps (which could still be 705) and have him get back into the suit on Arrow right before the crossover which is exactly what they did in s6 .

Why have their main couple get married on another show? No clue. I don’t know who they’re introducing during the prison storyline or what purpose they’d serve during the rest of the season, or if any of the stories started there would go on after Oliver gets out or how integral they’ll be to the season . I was just thinking of ways the storyline could be resolved - I’m not insisting that I’m right. 

[calliope1975]

17 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe he gets word of something happening with Felicity and William and breaks out to prevent that and gets some info or leverage to bargain for his release/a pardon? IDK 

I’m just spitballing here, LOL 

That's where my mind went, too. Something so bad happens outside that Oliver feels he has to get out and help, and whatever the threat is allows the FBI to pardon him. 

On another note, the petty bitch in me hopes all these comments from DR and SA about how excited they are for the new season and all the over the top faith they have in Beth (Best!) gets back to MG. I really dislike that man. 

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Why have their main couple get married on another show? No clue. I don’t know who they’re introducing during the prison storyline or what purpose they’d serve during the rest of the season, or if any of the stories started there would go on after Oliver gets out or how integral they’ll be to the season . I was just thinking of ways the storyline could be resolved - I’m not insisting that I’m right. 

Sorry if I came off as thinking that you were, I was just playing counter, like how the counter for Olicity getting married on another show was that they retaliated by having a good 1/4 of the episode right after be celebrating that wedding. I just think that the story would be resolved concisely and in its own story just like Oliver not wanting to be GA was, which also only took 5 episodes.

I wonder though instead of Oliver needing to break out because something is happening on the outside that it would be that Oliver needs to break out because something might happen to him in prison, thus making a need for him to escape and making it easier to incorporating the team in to help him at some point 

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I wonder though instead of Oliver needing to break out because something is happening on the outside that it would be that Oliver needs to break out because something might happen to him in prison, thus making a need for him to escape and making it easier to incorporating the team in to help him at some point 

Maybe? In the film treatment he befriends some of the inmates though, so...maybe they're changing that? I just keep trying to work out scenarios of how Oliver could operate freely as Green Arrow after getting out, which based on what little we know seems like is going to happen. I'm just having trouble thinking of a way that Oliver could get out and get pardoned that doesn't involve some grand-scale emergency he has a hand in solving, since Oliver had to bargain to even get help with Diaz and still had to go to prison even after getting the info the FBI needed to arrest everyone. He'd have to have something really big on someone in order to leverage his freedom (again). But this is Arrow so it doesn't necessarily have to make sense. So I should probably stop trying to figure it out, LOL.

[way2interested]

In the treatment he befriends some of the inmates but then most of them (I think if not all of them) die while he's escaping, so I think that might be what they'll do concerning some characters introduced in prison. And since both SA and Tonya referenced the Hard Traveling Heroes, maybe it would be less about making sure everything would be reestablished to the norm in Star City and just have part of the plot be Oliver and some of the other characters travel around to stop certain criminals while the others stay in Star City. Or maybe him traveling could be an FBI deal.

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

I guess both. Like, they realized that it didn't work so they wrapped up the parts they could and ensured that it wouldn't happen again. But, given that, I wouldn't think they would revisit a similar aspect of one of the complaints (removing Oliver from the team and the suit until right before the crossover) just because they removed another part of it (putting Diggle in the suit).

I guess with DR's comments the issue would be what does Oliver going to Gotham to meet Batwoman have to do with heroes becoming villains and villains becoming heroes, not that Oliver in prison would cause the plot and that Batwoman would just be the Captain Marvel of it all.

I don't understand your comparison. Captain Marvel? 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Proteus

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I don't understand your comparison. Captain Marvel? 

Like a "we're in trouble and can't fix our problem but don't worry we've got a secret weapon/person who will definitely turn the tables for our problem once she shows up" thing. That's jumping on what might happen in Avengers 4 but that's how Infinity War set things up, and I don't think it would be a scenario where there's this big problem that for some reason our regular heroes can't solve so they need the help of this new secret weapon/hero aka Batwoman and that the catalyst of this problem is that they have to break Oliver out of prison. It's not a great comparison, but I mean that I think that Batwoman herself is going to be the catalyst of the crossover and not that Oliver is going to be in prison and they need an extra person to come help them.

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

 But maybe they’re scrapping the escape part, and he just gets casually let out of Supermax for whatever plotty reason they come up with. 

This is what I'm hoping for.

MG was the one gung-ho on the Escape from Supermax idea which he already kind of did with Diggle.  Beth can put her own ideas on the show now.

[Sunshine]

Is Oliver getting another sibling?  IIRC, in one of his recent panels he said something about fighting a sibling would be fun.  At HVFF London, he signed something for @fallforkian on twitter, who wanted a spoiler, "Tough to Fight Family".  Robert was certainly a philanderer so a surprise sibling wouldn't really be a shocker.   

[Mary0360]

Honestly surprise sibling is something I could see the show doing. Especially now Thea is out of the picture. 

[JamieLynn832002]

Another sibling wouldn't shock me but I could also see it being about Felicity, William and/or Dig being pissed about the "Today, I think I'll go to a Supermax prison without any warning or discussion with my loved ones" thing.

 

I'm torn on the idea of Oliver breaking out in the crossover. On one hand, I agree that based on what we know it makes a lot of sense but on the the other, I'm afraid I wouldn't watching anymore due to frustration/possibly throwing something at my TV in said frustration.

[statsgirl]

I know that I didn't watch Oz or Orange is The New Black but would there really be enough story possibilities to keep Oliver in prison for 7 - 8 episodes?  The non Oliver episodes don't go over so well.

I suppose they could bring on new characters in the prison who could stick around for the rest of the season after they get out but I'm really not excited about the idea and they have enough male characters on the show already.

[Chaser]

I want clarification on comic canon. What does that mean? Which canon? Green Arrow or Batman? Or movie canon like TDK? Personalities or plot lines?

If SA gets his way and Oliver dies at the end of the series, I hope they pull a DKR and the whole Queen family fakes their death and we see them living happily ever after in peace.

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I want clarification on comic canon. What does that mean? Which canon? Green Arrow or Batman? Or movie canon like TDK? Personalities or plot lines?

Yeah, idk either, since this was the same thing he said before s4 and that was referring to the sleeveless costume, him making jokes, and Oliver running for mayor.

I wonder if SA still actually pitches Oliver dying or if it's just something he wants and mentions to them, since in the time of trying to sell box sets and not to mention an entire Arrowverse I still can't see them legitimately kill off one of the main heroes (unless it is a DKR thing, which tbh I could actually at this point see them doing and I think it could fit the series). Marvel hasn't even done that.

[bijoux]

My opinion about ending the show in such a way is that I don’t want it, but could live with it because I would know there are worse options out there. But I really, truly and honestly don’t want them having to live out the rest of their lives in hiding. That’s basically what Felicity and William will be doing for at least 6 months now. With that, Oliver in lock up and all the other collective shit they’ve gone through over the years, I’d hope karma would treat them better.

[apinknightmare]

I hope he means until the mid-season finale and not literally half. 

[Angel12d]

Damn. It's really looking more and more likely this prison storyline is gonna drag out a while. ?

On one hand it's good they're not resolving it instantly like they did with the s5 cliffhanger but on the other hand, I really didn't want him separate for so long.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Angel12d

[SmallScreenDiva]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I hope he means until the mid-season finale and not literally half. 

I don't understand that tweet. Oliver is in bed with someone?

[way2interested]

I thought that just meant no sex scenes in 7a?

[apinknightmare]

Just now, SmallScreenDiva said:

I don't understand that tweet. Oliver is in bed with someone?

The person is asking Beth to give us a current sex scene, since the last one that we had was Oliver in bed with Shady Susie - it seems as if he's saying there isn't going to be such a scene in the first half of the season because it's going to be tough (either because they are physically separated or angry with each other, I guess). 

[JJ928]

In the replies to that tweet, it seems she means the bed scene with Susan.

 

 

??what apinknightmare said

Edited May 27, 2018 by JJ928

[SmallScreenDiva]

22 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The person is asking Beth to give us a current sex scene, since the last one that we had was Oliver in bed with Shady Susie - it seems as if he's saying there isn't going to be such a scene in the first half of the season because it's going to be tough (either because they are physically separated or angry with each other, I guess). 

Thank you! I forgot all about that. See, I'd already erased that Shady Susie scene from my brain, LOL!

I really hope they don't drag out the physical separation. It's not fun when Oliver is not interacting with Felicity or Diggle. 

[Trisha]

More talk that this prison arc might not wrap up quickly. Also “leaning into comic canon”. Sigh.

[Angel12d]

It kinda depends what they mean by comic canon tbh but also, I feel like he says this every year. Haha.

[KenyaJ]

17 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It kinda depends what they mean by comic canon tbh but also, I feel like he says this every year. Haha.

Because he does, LOL. I don't have any real objection to it. I just hope whatever characters or stories they introduce from comic cannon are more compelling and better executed than the Dragon storyline.

[Angel12d]

6 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Because he does, LOL. I don't have any real objection to it. I just hope whatever characters or stories they introduce from comic cannon are more compelling and better executed than the Dragon storyline.

I'm fine with them using comic canon elements as long as it doesn't come at the expense of my non-comic canon faves! Because if it means more storylines for the newbies because comics, they can f*** off right now. ?

[KenyaJ]

Yes, definitely. But given how excited David and Emily seem about next season, I'm going to hope for the best. I'm also going to hope Beth realizes that, after this season, nobody is here for having the newbies upfront and center. 

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Damn. It's really looking more and more likely this prison storyline is gonna drag out a while. ?

On one hand it's good they're not resolving it instantly like they did with the s5 cliffhanger but on the other hand, I really didn't want him separate for so long.

I grumbled because I wanted more about the island and how they got off it.

But this prison storyline and DDD can't end soon enough for me.

It also sounds like they're not going to walk back Oliver outing himself as the Green Arrow and so basically all the excitement I might have had for season 7 is gone.

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

I wonder if SA still actually pitches Oliver dying or if it's just something he wants and mentions to them, since in the time of trying to sell box sets and not to mention an entire Arrowverse I still can't see them legitimately kill off one of the main heroes (unless it is a DKR thing, which tbh I could actually at this point see them doing and I think it could fit the series). Marvel hasn't even done that.

I think the idea of the hero of a series dying is the actor's arrogance rather than a good creative move or what the audience deserves. Sure, it's more fun to act and it makes his performance more iconic but it's also not fair to the audience who want to imagine the fictional character continuing on in imagination. (I still think killing Han Solo was not worth it.)

[Trisha]

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

I wonder if SA still actually pitches Oliver dying or if it's just something he wants and mentions to them, since in the time of trying to sell box sets and not to mention an entire Arrowverse I still can't see them legitimately kill off one of the main heroes (unless it is a DKR thing, which tbh I could actually at this point see them doing and I think it could fit the series). Marvel hasn't even done that.

It sounds like he might be softening up on his “Oliver should die in the end” stance:

 

Also, SA cracking up when trying to insist there will be no Olicity baby in S7 is a good sign, @Mellowyellow!

 

[Chaser]

25 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I grumbled because I wanted more about the island and how they got off it.

But this prison storyline and DDD can't end soon enough for me.

It also sounds like they're not going to walk back Oliver outing himself as the Green Arrow and so basically all the excitement I might have had for season 7 is gone.

I think the idea of the hero of a series dying is the actor's arrogance rather than a good creative move or what the audience deserves. Sure, it's more fun to act and it makes his performance more iconic but it's also not fair to the audience who want to imagine the fictional character continuing on in imagination. (I still think killing Han Solo was not worth it.)

I don’t know about that. I always wished they had killed Buffy at the end. I thought that would have taken the show full circle with the mythology. In some cases, I think it makes sense.

That said, I don’t think it works in this case. Arrow needs to end with a win for Oliver and the audience.

[Primal Slayer]

They had already killed Buffy though, having her die again in the series finale would've been a bit repetitive. 

I could see Arrow ending similar to how Angel ended. The fight goes on. 

[way2interested]

Quote

Meet “Jessie Bowden” who the casting department is looking to have a recurring Caucasian 18+-year-old actress play as late teens to early 20s. She is the rookie recruit in the Star City Police Department and is both athletic, comedic, and intelligent. But underneath her youthful attitude, lies a woman who has had enough of vigilantes in Star City and is willing to get rid of them no matter what it takes. Think of her as Buffy Summers, if she was slaying superheroes instead of vampires.

Quote

Next up is another recurring character in the form of “Daniel Porter”, who they are looking for a Caucasian actor in his mid-30s. He is an intelligent and homosexual technological entrepreneur whose creativity has given him a huge success as a businessman. But having gone through tragic losses in his life is something he hides from the people around him, thus struggling with shaping new relationships with others

Quote

Last, but not least, we have another mystery female character that could be either an original character or one of these DC female characters with a slight adjustment for the show. Arrow is looking for an actress to fill the role of “Konomi Rhodes”, who is half Japanese as well as half Caucasian somewhere in her late 20s to early 30s. “Konomi” is a formidable fighter who ends ups clashing with the heroes of Star City. Her background consists of being a tactician in the military while also carrying on as a street fighter.

http://thathashtagshow.com/2018/05/exclusive-breakdowns-arrow-season-7-ted-kord/

The Daniel guy does sound like it could be Ted Kord (going so far as to basically use the same fake name back when Ray was Ted, but who knows what DC is letting anyone use anymore). If these are true (kind of hesitant tbh with some of the details), then the only thing that throws me off is that there still needs to be characters involved with Oliver in prison while still apparently introducing "Jessie" and "Daniel" to stick around for a while. Although, like the article kind of hints, how random would it be if they were love interests for the other characters.

[insomniadreams88]

Really not in the mood for more new characters. Unless they replace the current newbies. 

[kes0704]

I understand they have to have new characters to play against, but the last time they added so many new characters all at once we ended up with the newbies.  

If they are there to support stories for the core characters, then great. But if they end up being the shiny new toys that get more focus than the core characters, as we’ve seen happen before, then I have some concerns**.

**I blame MG & WM for my continuing scepticism on how the show might handle new characters.

[Primal Slayer]

I could see Konomi Rhodes being Chesire. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm loving that what seems like a major antagonistic force could possibly be a teenager. 

[way2interested]

For what it looks like, the cop looks like a side interaction/new character, the Lady Shiva/Chesire character could be a 7a antagonist, and they might do the same twist (or 701 twist or set up from the get-go) from Chase again and make the Ted Kord-looking guy the villain, which kind of spreads it out fine. 

[Primal Slayer]

I wonder if the new Mayor will be anti-vigilante, they really need to decide to either go full throttle with this for the remainder of the series or kill it very quickly.

[jay741982]

13 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I could see Konomi Rhodes being Chesire. 

Which would mean Possible LI for Roy Correct?

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, jay741982 said:

Which would mean Possible LI for Roy Correct?

You would think but with this show probably not. They really arent big on relationships outside of their OTPs so Roy will most likely still be dedicated to Thea.