Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

LOT fans shouldn't worry. Arrow is the one stuck with KC/LL forever. You should all appreciate our sacrifice. ??

[Chaser]

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I also don't think Phil Klemmer has any interest in Laurel, whenever they were asked about her he was always saying "I don't know" then move on to another question. He's shown much more interest in trying to the get the Mari actress on the show.  

I don't think MG had any interest in her either. I think it was out of his hands. It may be out of Klemmer's as well.  

My guess is that KC is staying on Arrow but will make at least one appearance on LOT and maybe another on The Flash. I'm just hoping it's super limited on Arrow.

[Cleanqueen]

KC thought she played BC for 6 years and thinks the only way the movie should be made is if they cast her...I think she'll forever be around and accept whatever crumbs the show gives her. 

[Sakura12]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

LOT fans shouldn't worry. Arrow is the one stuck with KC/LL forever. You should all appreciate our sacrifice. ??

Oh I do.

I appreciate not having to deal with her anymore. I'm good with Sara just mentioning a sister and not having to say her name. I'd love to be able hear Yanny every time her name is mentioned. 

[Starfish35]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

LOT fans shouldn't worry. Arrow is the one stuck with KC/LL forever. You should all appreciate our sacrifice. ??

We do.  Your appreciation gift basket will be arriving shortly. ;)

[Starfish35]

More seriously, my preference first and foremost would be for KC to move on from the Arrowverse entirely.  I will forever be mystified at why they keep bringing her back.  But at this point, it appears she will be around until the bitter end. :/

Edited May 23, 2018 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

At this point someone on the show with some power has to like her enough to keep bringing her back but I'm glad she's here. Everybody wins....somewhat.

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

At this point someone on the show with some power has to like her enough to keep bringing her back but I'm glad she's here. Everybody wins....somewhat.

Someone with power OVER the show.

And no, not everybody wins. I as a viewer certainly don't.

[Primal Slayer]

17 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Someone with power OVER the show.

And no, not everybody wins. I as a viewer certainly don't.

If someone outside the show forced them to bring her back, they wouldnt have gotten rid of her in the first place. 

You get Olicity. They could be a none thing. They could've broken up and moved on. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

At this point someone on the show with some power has to like her enough to keep bringing her back but I'm glad she's here. Everybody wins....somewhat.

If by winning, you mean I have to suffer more KC and Laurel to watch Arrow.....

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

You get Olicity. They could be a none thing. They could've broken up and moved on. 

Nice try. Olicity was always going to get back together whether KC was brought back to the show or not. Berlinti came up with the idea of a WA/Olicity double wedding for the 2017 crossover right after the Invasion! Crossover. 

The only people that “win” with KC hanging onto the show are KC and her fans. BS adds nothing to the show, no longer has any connection to the characters on the show, and takes away screentime that could be spent on all the other characters. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by lemotomato

[insomniadreams88]

Honestly, one of my problems with KC continuing to be on the show is that they clearly don't care to do anything but the minimum with her characters. I may not be a fan of any version of Laurel, but if I have to deal with her on screen, I'd rather it at least be worth it (if that makes sense)?

If we have to deal with even a semi-redeemed BS at any point in season 7, I would've rather they didn't constantly show us reasons why she couldn't be redeemed in S6 (like killing when she didn't have to, only seeming to care about Lance in the end, stupidly screaming Diaz off a roof in the finale and not when he burned a guy alive, inconsistent reactions to violence, etc.). They didn't even have to increase her screen-time. All they had to do was tweak a few things in the first ... 19/20 episodes? 

I have yet to see anything from BS that suggests that she should stick around for another full season. Especially since she's now tied to Diaz with him as her villain. Really, anyone connected to Diaz in any way is an automatic no for me. 

And they still didn't even try to give her any connections to anyone who's currently alive on Arrow. Lance is dead. She and Sara sort of had a scene together (again, just the minimum) but she's on LoT. Oliver yelled at her for being stupid in the finale, and they seem to understand the best way to deal with SA and KC's anti-chemistry is to have them only interact a couple times over the course of a season. 

[Primal Slayer]

22 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Nice try. Olicity was always going to get back together whether KC was brought back to the show or not. Berlinti came up with the idea of a WA/Olicity double wedding for the 2017 crossover right after the Invasion! Crossover. 

The only people that “win” with KC hanging onto the show are KC and her fans. BS adds nothing to the show, no longer has any connection to the characters on the show, and takes away screentime that could be spent on all the other characters. 

It's a pretty big win to have your ship be married. KC fans are hardly the only ones that win. Everyone gets theirs in some way. 

No character besides the Lances/Queens had any connection to Oliver when the show first started but they found ways to get them connected, every NTA member came in with no connection but they built a connection. They could easily connect Siren to any of them if they wanted. 

[lemotomato]

26 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It's a pretty big win to have your ship be married. KC fans are hardly the only ones that win. Everyone gets theirs in some way.

I don’t understand why you keep bringing up Olicity. It has absolutely nothing to do with my point that KC/LL shouldn’t have been brought back and having her around this season made the show (and non-LL fans) suffer.

[BkWurm1]

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the show one of it's best actors right there.  He's busy most of the year so the show loses out right there.  (And also was one of the few things that made Rene tolerable previously, so yeah, that does change things Hoss)

Then she becomes a plot point with OTA having to save her from NTA in order to save the city and it makes everyone look different degrees of bad.  Then she shows up as E1Laurel and the whole show gets dumber since she's openly known as a vigilante but there are no consequences for her.  Plus since they had to have her have a reason to be around, they had her do all sorts of henchman jobs that perhaps if they'd given them to Diaz, we'd have found him more menacing. 

So justifying her existence ended up undercutting the Big Bad, took away character arc options, battered the characterization of all the regulars, and broke down the trust between the audience and the show by being exempt from the show's rules on vigilantes thus breaking suspension of disbelief and world building. 

And that is all before one factors in what they think of her storyline or acting ability.   

Edited May 24, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

One point of credit I will give KC is that, in my opinion, her atrocious acting ability (or lack of it) has made me accept Jack Moore's wooden acting a lot more. Jack is pretty sweet as William and I am now more forgiving of his inability to emote when a thirty something year old supposed professional like KC can only muster up three expressions in total. 

I will confess I am nowhere near as annoyed about her plot lines as some of you guys are! I can't get over the fact that she looks like a scowling stunned mullet all the time to quibble about her plot. It just takes me away from whatever plot she's embroiled in. She's gotten way worse since imo! Doesn't matter what the plot is for S7. The face will look the same. 

[BkWurm1]

Her plot really doesn't matter but all I can think of is what the show might have looked like if they didn't have to try to make her relevant.  

[statsgirl]

For me the problem is that they couldn't commit to a consistent characterization for KC no matter which Laurel she played.

KC is best at playing acerbic and snarky, the woman who pushed Oliver beyond where he wanted to go and threw her wine glass at Sara because she was so angry, who pumped the bad guy full of bullets,  but the writers couldn't let her be that in the first three seasons, she had to be the crusading lawyer, the woman that both Oliver and Tommy wanted, who took over Sara's jacket and her heritage with barely any training, rather than a competent but complicated character.

When Black Siren appeared in season 5, she was a breath of fresh air.   There was a lot of fun to her vendetta against Team Arrow and killing for fun at the beginning of season 6. But then the show decided to redeem her and for some reason no one can explain to me, the metahuman who can melt brains with her cry takes orders not just from Chase and Cayden James but from Diaz who is a thug and who she should be able to dispatch without effort but who she's afraid of even when she's not wearing the collar.  I thought she would make a good antagonist or maybe frenemy but the writing to redeem Black Siren and make her  poor fatherless thing not only messed up her character but also those she came into contact with especially Quentin, as well as the season's storyline.

I think of it as "the Regina factor" (OUaT reference).

Edited May 24, 2018 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.

I wish I could like your post twice, @BkWurm1

[kes0704]

I have no doubt that if the show continues on after Stephen, Emily and David bow out and it changes to Arrow: The Next Generation with the kids of OTA, KC will somehow still be part of the show.  They have an inability to let her go and it doesn’t even seem to matter that Quentin, one of her few solid links to another character, is now dead.

The sad part is that they made Quentin look so delusional with the replacement “daughter” storyline that I didn’t feel anything on his death other than “thank god that’s over”. 

The only other option that’s been mentioned is tying her to Diaz to seek revenge for the death of her pseudo father which, if show history tells me anything, isn’t something I’m likely to enjoy.  On the bright side, if BS and Diaz end up stuck in a story arc together it will make for more efficient fast forwarding.

[tangerine95]

Imo BS just very obviously doesn't belong and it's pretty clear her presence isn't for any story reason but for bts ones.That's the case with the newbies as well but a lot less apparent.This was a one episode villain of the week character that you can tell they didn't create for more but then they had to expand it.It's very much a damage to the show to try and keep a villain who killed innocents with no remorse,tried to kill every major character on the show,is complicit in Oliver's kid being kidnapped and left motherless and that's just to name a few of the crimes.It's even worse than with Malcolm and I didn't think that was possible.Because this isn't even LL who has a connection to anyone,it's literally just someone who looks like her,it's that shallow.

[apinknightmare]

From the TV Guide interview with Emily in the Spoilers Only thread:

Quote

While Curtis probably might not be on board with giving Felicity's name to their shared company, he might be on board with Holt & Smoak Tech instead? And given how much fans adore Curtis and Felicity's adorable friendship, we doubt they'd mind it either.

Not true, can confirm.

[Chaser]

Who are these lying fans?

[KenyaJ]

From this article I just posted in the spoiler thread about Emily's hopes for her S7 storyline:

Quote

While Curtis probably might not be on board with giving Felicity's name to their shared company, he might be on board with Holt & Smoak Tech instead? And given how much fans adore Curtis and Felicity's adorable friendship, we doubt they'd mind it either.

Girl, where? I don't believe that these alleged fans exist.

In any event . . . 

Quote

One storyline fans are hoping to see happen next year is an Olicity baby, but Emily Bett Rickards is on the fence about it.

"I don't know if I would be interested in exploring that storyline right now with Felicity," Bett Rickards tells TV Guide. "I feel like she deserves a little something more than that, and I don't want that to be taken the wrong way. I'd just be interested in seeing her, I don't know, like, deal with a villain face-to-face for a consistent number of episodes?"

It's hard to argue with that, although one storyline doesn't preclude the other. If MG were still around, I'd think that having a villain terrorizing pregnant Felicity would be right up his alley. Maybe not so much with Beth.

Edited May 25, 2018 by KenyaJ

[Chaser]

I find it interesting that EBR is doing more PR post S6 then she has done in two seasons. 

[JamieLynn832002]

I was just coming to argue that point too. Sadly, I did once love Curtis' and Felicity's friendship but then Curtis starting taking over her stories/expertise and became a giant jackass who I'd love to see die.

[Mellowyellow]

So.... no Olicity baby?

I will need to make peace with that but anything with loooooots of Felicity will make me happy. 

Except Curtis. CURTIS NEEDS TO DIE.

[Chaser]

They really aren’t going to confirm a baby storyline to the press. 

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

It's hard to argue with that, although one storyline doesn't preclude the other

Yeah, that's really the only main counter I could think of, especially if we're headed towards the end of the series. It's time to throw everything to the wall, not wait and choose one thing over another.

Although yet again with the baby thing being willingly brought up into the press. They really want this baby thing to be on people's mind for the hiatus.

[Guest]

I don't blame EBR for not wanting a baby yet. They sidelined her and haven't really given her much to work with tbh. And I can't imagine she really wants to be stuck wearing a fake baby bump! But that doesn't mean a baby isn't happening. If anything, the more they talk about it in interviews, the more I think it's happening. Haha.

Hopefully they'll give her some moments facing a villain and I'd love it if Smoak Tech actually happened. Curtis can die. That's fine. ? And if/when this baby comes, hopefully they'll strike the right balance showing her as a new mom who also happens to be CEO and Overwatch for Team Arrow. 

[insomniadreams88]

Reading about EBR wanting to see Felicity “deal with a villain face-to-face for a consistent number of episodes” just reminds me how Felicity and Cayden James were in what, one scene together? One. UGH. 

[KenyaJ]

11 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'd love it if Smoak Tech actually happened. 

It needs to happen.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

It needs to happen.

I actually feel like it's pretty mean to tease Smoak Tech the way they did and then never follow through but also make it all about Curtis instead. Because that's basically what they did. It's Curtis' invention so he could walk and she'd be left with nothing. MY BLOOD IS BOILING.

[way2interested]

I mean, they really made it all about nothing/a reason to keep the loft set/give a reason for Felicity to talk about non-mission stuff to another character when needed rather than actually making it about Curtis. Not saying that they actually did a great job or anything, but if anything this season showed how they didn't really care about Curtis at all except to use him as a scene filler.

[KenyaJ]

Felicity should decide it's not fair to have a company with Curtis while she's in protective custody and let him have Helix and forms her own company. Of course, that will never happen, because Curtis would have no purpose on the show if he wasn't attached to Felicity like a barnacle. He's certainly not needed for his vigilante skills.

[Mellowyellow]

I wonder if they know fans expect a baby in S7 so they are sending EBR out to let us down gently. If the Olicity baby is part of her S7 storyline I don't see EBR publicly expressing her reservations about it. 

The Smoak Tech storyline has soured for me because of Curtis' s involvement. An Olicity baby would involve Oliver but at least I like Oliver!

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I mean, they really made it all about nothing/a reason to keep the loft set/give a reason for Felicity to talk about non-mission stuff to another character when needed rather than actually making it about Curtis. Not saying that they actually did a great job or anything, but if anything this season showed how they didn't really care about Curtis at all except to use him as a scene filler.

I agree they don't care much about Curtis which is why it's baffling to me that they made Felicity's much-hinted-at company all about his invention. I hate it. The girl is a genius. She can invent things herself. If only the writers would let her. But nope. Gotta prop that loser instead. 

[JJ928]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

I wonder if they know fans expect a baby in S7 so they are sending EBR out to let us down gently. If the Olicity baby is part of her S7 storyline I don't see EBR publicly expressing her reservations about it. 

The Smoak Tech storyline has soured for me because of Curtis' s involvement. An Olicity baby would involve Oliver but at least I like Oliver!

As much as I don't want it, I do think you're gonna get your baby. David isn't one to lie about spoilers that big, so I think she'll be pregnant by midseason finale. I really really really hope Beth at least give her decent focus and a good arc before the reveal. And I hope she'll still have storylines outside of being pregnant when she is.

Someone here (I don't remember who) said maybe we see the baby in a flash forward, and I could see that as well. It'd be a nice way to not have EBR deal with wearing a bump.

[Mellowyellow]

Ray was a billionaire genius and never did I feel like his skills overshadowed Felicity's. They actually wrote them well in terms of team work.

The constant propping up of Curtis (who is a useless piece of sh@t) by Felicity is foul.

Omg I might start a Twitter account to rant about this I'm getting angry. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I wonder if they know fans expect a baby in S7 so they are sending EBR out to let us down gently. If the Olicity baby is part of her S7 storyline I don't see EBR publicly expressing her reservations about it. 

The only reason people are expecting a baby is because DR told them to. Not sure why he’d lie to multiple people about it. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I wonder if they know fans expect a baby in S7 so they are sending EBR out to let us down gently. If the Olicity baby is part of her S7 storyline I don't see EBR publicly expressing her reservations about it. 

The Smoak Tech storyline has soured for me because of Curtis' s involvement. An Olicity baby would involve Oliver but at least I like Oliver!

I really don't think EBR is letting us down gently. She's always been honest about what she likes/dislikes. I mean, she was liking Raylicity when the show was basically setting up Olicity as endgame. Haha. 

And of course there's always the option that she only gets pregnant mid to late s7, so technically we might not even see a baby in s7 at all.

Also, DR doesn't lie. I trust him.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Guest

[Mellowyellow]

You know I love you guys for all your baby counselling *group huggles*

The show can be sh@t but you guys are the bestest!

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I agree they don't care much about Curtis which is why it's baffling to me that they made Felicity's much-hinted-at company all about his invention

My point was they didn't? Other than bringing it up in 604 as something they could try to sell (not even really mentioning Curtis in it, more of referencing something they could sell that Felicity was literally sitting on and not remembering), most of the business talk (602, 603, 619, etc.) was all about them working together because they were friends. Yeah it should be more about Felicity, but it's not like every single time it was brought up it was about Curtis' invention. They treated it as a complete partnership the whole way through (other than that stupid squabble over the name/invention thing).

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

My point was they didn't? Other than bringing it up in 604 as something they could try to sell (not even really mentioning Curtis in it, more of referencing something they could sell that Felicity was literally sitting on and not remembering), most of the business talk (602, 603, 619, etc.) was all about them working together because they were friends. Yeah it should be more about Felicity, but it's not like every single time it was brought up it was about Curtis' invention. They treated it as a complete partnership the whole way through (other than that stupid squabble over the name/invention thing).

It doesn't matter if they didn't bring it up much or not, the company is still about selling his invention. That's my point. If it was something they both invented, fair enough, but it's not. That's my issue. 

Also I don't think she should have to share at all. 

[statsgirl]

For some reason, they don't want Felicity to have her company free and clear.  Curtis was freelancing tech services while Felicity still didn't know what to do now that her )severance package was used up (how about the fact that she's still supposed to own Ray's PT shares?) and when she had the idea to form  a company, Felicity needed to ask him to join her in a new company because they don't want her going solo.   Diggle gets ARGUS, Dinah gets her own love interest  --> nemesis and Black Siren gets Diaz but Felicity can't even have her own antagonist in Cayden James, he has to be handed over to Oliver.

Edited May 25, 2018 by statsgirl

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It doesn't matter if they didn't bring it up much or not, the company is still about selling his invention. That's my point. If it was something they both invented, fair enough, but it's not. That's my issue. 

Also I don't think she should have to share at all. 

Ah, I get you now. The company is but the storyline wasn't, I guess was my main point, but I agree that it shouldn't have been a partnership. It really just should have been Felicity doing stuff with Curtis' tech and then Curtis being her first employee if they had to incorporate him.

I think what happened is that they really just wanted to set up relationships/partnerships with OTA and the newbies (Oliver helping Rene, those weird Diggle and Dinah scenes, Felicity and Curtis starting the business together) to bring drama to that civil war plot, and this was the way to easily tie a newbie to an OTA person.

[tv echo]

Sounds like SN has not been asked back yet...

[BkWurm1]

@Mellowyellow something else to keep in mind with what EBR was saying in those interviews about a baby, as of Monday during the Build series she said she knew really nothing about what was happening in season seven.  She hadn't met with the showrunners or writers to find out what was coming.  She could have gotten scoop from SA at some point but that still would just be casual conversation, not a mandate from the show to talk down a topic.   

[Mary0360]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

@Mellowyellow something else to keep in mind with what EBR was saying in those interviews about a baby, as of Monday during the Build series she said she knew really nothing about what was happening in season seven.  She hadn't met with the showrunners or writers to find out what was coming.  She could have gotten scoop from SA at some point but that still would just be casual conversation, not a mandate from the show to talk down a topic.   

Also I saw someone point out on twitter that Emily's had opinions before that were contradictory to what the show did. Its her opinion,she's allowed to have it, but the show will do whatever the show wants to do.....and the show wants to explore an Olicity pregnancy. 

[Mary0360]

17 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ray was a billionaire genius and never did I feel like his skills overshadowed Felicity's. They actually wrote them well in terms of team work.

But he did use Felicity's software for his suit without her consent or giving her credit and when Felicity was able to solve something that he couldn't solve he had to go and check her work because he didn't believe she'd done it. Also despite being romcom-ed in another context he would have basically been sexually harassing her and crossing all kinds of appropriate workplace conduct lines prior to them dating.