Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

Thea is free of Malcolm. My prayers have been answered. What a blessed day.

Still holding out hope that she slices his throat but I feel like they're gonna give him an "honorable" death where he sacrifices himself for Thea.

7 minutes ago, Trisha said:

The follow up tweet makes no sense to me?

IDGI either. What relevance does the musical have? Huh?

[Primal Slayer]

Barrowman likes to joke around so I dont take him 100% seriously and fully expect to see him at least once next season. I am guessing the person who tweeted the "flash im dead so arrow I die" is more meant to be "I died in the Flash musical so I would be dead in the musical Arrow-verse as well"

But if he is 100% dead it sucks that someone who truly deserves to land the killing blow probably doesnt. Sara/Laurel/Thea/Nyssa all robbed.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[Trisha]

19 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I can only speak for myself and for me it really, really wasn't. They should have had the 520 FBs during 5x05 at the latest..understanding why a character is acting in a certain way makes the story better but they don't write for the characters..

Yup! Also, going through some of the reviewer links that @tv echo posted and the general vibe for 519 seems to be that it was good episode, but way too late in the season to have one without Chase in it. I worry the reception for 520 is going to be even worse, because from the looks of things the rest of the team is going to be focused on the rescue, not finding Chase.  I wish all the Olicity-heavy episode would have landed earlier to avoid that criticism, but pacing has always been Arrow's Achilles' heel.

[tv echo]

If Malcolm really is dying this season, they could still bring JB back next season. Here's a crazy idea...

In the 519 episode thread (page 3), I posted my Google research on the name "Cayden" and found it could be a derivative from either the Scottish/Gaelic "Cadáin" or the Arabic "Kaden." So if the name is derived from Scottish roots, then we could find out next season that 'Cayden James' is an alias used by Malcolm's smarter, estranged Scottish cousin, Cayden Merlyn - also played by John Barrowman!

So even though Malcolm is dead, Barrowman continues on in Arrow (just like Laurel is dead, but KC continues on as Black Siren). Kidding... sort of.

Edited April 29, 2017 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

2 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

They should have had the 520 FBs during 5x05 at the latest..understanding why a character is acting in a certain way makes the story better but they don't write for the characters..

But since their plan was to keep Oliver and Felicity apart for most of the season, having the 520 flashbacks as a part of 505 wouldn't make quite as much of an impact, IMO. To have Olicity "break up" both in the flashbacks and in present day would have been redundant. Having Oliver and Felicity start on good terms but end up further apart in the flashbacks sets up a contrast to what happens in the present, when they start out at odds but presumably address their issues and start on the path to getting back together.

Edited April 29, 2017 by lemotomato

[Carrie Ann]

I'm fine with the timing (I mean...I'm not, because the first 15 episodes of this season were pretty useless to me, but you know, relatively). I just feel like if 520 was the plan all along, and the writing staff did plan to have flashbacks to some significant Olicity hiatus moment, then they needed to drop in just a few tiny moments along the way (like in 505) that hinted that something had happened. They're now kind of talking about it like it was a mystery--why do they act like they do with each other--when they didn't write it that way. They just didn't write anything, and that ended up being confusing for the audience. Not the outcome any writer would want. So that tells me that they just didn't want to write anything for it--believe me, I have heard loud and clear from the EPs that they had a different story to tell--and now they want to act like that was a feature, not a bug.

[Midnight Lullaby]

33 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

But since their plan was to keep Oliver and Felicity apart for most of the season, having the 520 flashbacks as a part of 505 wouldn't make quite as much of an impact, IMO. To have Olicity "break up" both in the flashbacks and in present day would have been redundant. Having Oliver and Felicity start on good terms but end up further apart in the flashbacks sets up a contrast to what happens in the present, when they start out at odds but presumably address their issues and start on the path to getting back together.

I know that, but that's writing for the plot and not for the characters. As I said I prefer a character driven story.

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I know that, but that's writing for the plot and not for the characters. As I said I prefer a character driven story.

I do too, but this is Arrow. Season 2A might have been the last time they wrote for characters rather than plot twists.

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I do too, but this is Arrow. Season 2A might have been the last time they wrote for characters rather than plot twists.

I'm well aware. I was talking about what they should have done to make the story more enjoyable to watch from my POV. Knowing why they wrote it like they did doesn't make it any more entertaining to watch for me.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[statsgirl]

If they wanted to put off the summer stuff till 5x20 when the reunion starts, okay.  But they should have had an explanation for why Oliver and Felicity were acting so weird around each other for 3/4s of the season because it was not only confusing, it was the opposite of entertaining.

I think they just dropped the ball and didn't notice what it looked like until the audience started complaining.  Even the reviewers noticed.

[catrox14]

JB is adept at misdirection and outright lying about his roles on shows. I don't think he's gonna spoil Malcolm's death so obviously. 

[calliope1975]

Because MM died in a musical episode on a show I no longer watch, he now has to die on Arrow? Mmmm, sure, okay. I'm not complaining, but that is some dodgy logic. I would hope this would mean we can stop with the bio dad means more than it should, but instead this will probably mean Spawn will be sticking around. Keep it in Offscreenville, Show. You owe me this. 

[leopardprint]

3 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I'm well aware. I was talking about what they should have done to make the story more enjoyable to watch from my POV. Knowing why they wrote it like they did doesn't make it any more entertaining to watch for me.

Yes, I am right there with you. I understand the purpose of having Oliver and Felicity distant for 18 episodes. They wanted to make space for the Susan storyline, the Billy storyline and Felicity's dingy spiral. (was not dark) What I am saying is that they didn't give a reason why they had to tell those stories. They had literally no purpose except to burn screen time. They could release a S5 DVD set without those scenes and it would have no impact on the rest of the show and would probably make more money.

[LeighAn]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If they wanted to put off the summer stuff till 5x20 when the reunion starts, okay.  But they should have had an explanation for why Oliver and Felicity were acting so weird around each other for 3/4s of the season because it was not only confusing, it was the opposite of entertaining.

I think they just dropped the ball and didn't notice what it looked like until the audience started complaining.  Even the reviewers noticed.

How exactly have Olicity been acting "weird" though? 

Like how exactly should they have been written to behave around one another? 

They are broken up and were dating other people for a lengthy period of time ergo they aren't going to be lovey dovey. They were however slightly flirty very early on in 5A before the Billy Goat came out in the open. 

They are broken up and not in the casual way but in a pretty traumatic way which means going back to bffs who share everything is probably not natural. Being guarded and have some emotional walls feels pretty normal for two people who are broken up. 

There was still a friendship and partnership between them just different from before they broke up. Oliver multiple expressed concern over Felicity and tried to broach/ask what was going on with her but wouldn't push it any further because he felt it wasn't his place. Felicity still tried to reach Oliver and encourage him with her pep talks but again it was different because there was more repression based on the fact that their relationship has changed because they are broken up.

Felicity and Oliver dated Billy and Susan. As much as we might not like it they cared about these people, they were in the significant other category and therefore Oliver and Felicity weren't obligated to place each other before the people they were romantically involved with.

I'm just not sure what the writers "need to explain" why Oliver and Felicity behaviour and relationship changed since the fact that they were broken up in the first place explain a lot of why they were as guarded or to use a fandom buzz word "cold/robotic" with each other. Their relationship has changed so the writing for them would change to reflect that.

Edited April 30, 2017 by LeighAn

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

How exactly have Olicity been acting "weird" though? 

Like how exactly should they have been written to behave around one another? 

They are broken up and were dating other people for a lengthy period of time ergo they aren't going to be lovey dovey. They were however slightly flirty very early on in 5A before the Billy Goat came out in the open. 

They are broken up and not in the casual way but in a pretty traumatic way which means going back to bffs who share everything is probably not natural. Being guarded and have some emotional walls feels pretty normal for two people who are broken up. 

There was still a friendship and partnership between them just different from before they broke up. Oliver multiple expressed concern over Felicity and tried to broach/ask what was going on with her but wouldn't push it any further because he felt it wasn't his place. Felicity still tried to reach Oliver and encourage him with her pep talks but again it was different because there was more repression based on the fact that their relationship has changed because they are broken up.

Felicity and Oliver dated Billy and Susan. As much as we might not like it they cared about these people, they were in the significant other category and therefore Oliver and Felicity weren't obligated to place each other before the people they were romantically involved with.

I'm just not sure what the writers "need to explain" why Oliver and Felicity behaviour and relationship changed since the fact that they were broken up in the first place explain a lot of why they were as guarded or to use a fandom buzz word "cold/robotic" with each other. Their relationship has changed so the writing for them would change to reflect that.

Weird for me is acting like they were back to being friends and partners in the first episodes like the engagement and break up never happened. We got the writers telling us that of course they had a discussion about where they stood during the summer, it would have been weird if they haven't, and things were totally fine with them. Well that's the missing part. If you want to sell me they settled the situation between them during the summer you have to show me or at least imply they did it on the show, not tell me in interviews. And show me while you are telling the story, not 7 months later.

And the "robotic" part was about Oliver in general, not just with Felicity..there were so many different explanations and interpretations (from fans) for why Oliver was robotic, then optimistic but at the same time miserable while the show didn't bother having one convo to make us understand what the character was really feeling..

I liked the last episode because they took the time to express every character's POV. I feel that's what have been missing in the first half.

[LeighAn]

When the show came back they was roughly 8 months since Olicity were broken up. So again exactly how should they have been written to act around one another. After 8 months wouldn't you be friendly with someone you don't hate and work and see every day? After 8 months are you suppose to discuss or reference your relationship every day? 

I mean regardless the very first episode of the season had Oliver and Diggle flat out talk about whether Olicity would get back together and Oliver seeming hopeful but unbeknownst Felicity was dating someone else.

So really the writers werent acting like Olicity were never together. They started the season off with a "Will Olicity get back together?" Question mark.

Edited April 30, 2017 by LeighAn

[Midnight Lullaby]

24 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

When the show came back they was roughly 8 months since Olicity were broken up. So again exactly how should they have been written to act around one another. After 8 months wouldn't you be friendly with someone you don't hate and work and see every day? After 8 months are you suppose to discuss or reference your relationship every day? 

I mean regardless the very first episode of the season had Oliver and Diggle flat out talk about whether Olicity would get back together and Oliver seeming hopeful but unbeknownst Felicity was dating someone else.

So really the writers werent acting like Olicity were never together. They started the season off with a "Will Olicity get back together?" Question mark.

I said they were writing the characters as they have never been through an engagement and break up regarding their behavior towards one another. Compare the first couple of episodes to season 2A and there isn't much difference in their interactions.

They could have chosen to make them act in any way they wanted, it's their choice, but if they don't explain how the characters went from point A to B the story lacks something. Again, for me. Other people might have no problem being entertained even if they don't show why the characters act the way they do. Their behavior felt weird to me because the show didn't explain what happened. The EPs told us they talked during the summer and it was basically up to us to make up what happened.

If the writers thought the way they were acting at the beginning required no explanation and the story explained itself they wouldn't have bothered to explain it now, yet this week they will.

[tangerine95]

I guess it makes sense in reality they wouldn't discuss the break up all the time if they had to stay friends and work together and they would date other people and all that but imo on the show it was a weird way to deal with a break up this big.I mean they made a big deal about olicity for 3 seasons now,had them get engaged and be ridiculously happy together,gave them all sorts of epic love declarations,have them struggle with jealousy whenever the other one even looks at someone else etc and then after a big break up we come back to Felicity dating someone else,them being friends seemingly pretty easily with no angst,then Oliver finding out about Billy and being pretty chill about it considering how we saw him react to Ray or Barry,then Oliver dating Susan and Felicity also showing next to no reaction,their engagement wasn't mentioned for 19 episodes etc.Idk in season 5 it all just seemed so cold and underwhelming and not fitting the kind of love story they made olicity to be.

I think that lack of reaction or angst or struggle to be apart was the robotic part more than any interactions between Oliver and Felicity.I think they skipped over some pretty big character beats in the break up and it was jarring considering the past seasons especially.I do think 5.20 will help fill in the blanks and it will make more sense and even 5.19 made it clearer so at least there's that but imo it was a mistake they waited so long instead of making characters feelings and POV apparent from the start.

[tv echo]

SA also used the word "robotic"...

Quote

-- SA: "I don't know if Oliver and Felicity are going to get back together. I do know that - hang on... I do know that there has been a - I wouldn't say a coldness, but a very, uh, deliberate, almost robotic, uh, feeling or temperature to their relationship this year. And we explain why that is in an upcoming episode." (HVFF-Chicago, Mar. 25, 2017: prince mojo video of SA panel, page 56 of Spoilers thread)

Edited April 30, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

I agree that perhaps they could have given us more hints. I will admit I did doubt whether they were going to get back together or not, especially with the new BC added. 519 cleared up so much for me and I think the writers were planning another "big Olicity move" but this probably didn't translate well with a bunch of fans who had given up hope after watching a pretty dodgy season 5A full of new random unlikeable masks. 

In hindsight I think their behaviour is consistent with how you might act if you were burying your relationship with the love of your life for good and you still had to see them every day. 

I think with Ray and Barry, there was always still hope. They never commenced a relationship so there was always the hope that they could go there one day. 

Here they had a relationship, were going to get married, broke up and then basically buried their relationship in 505 for good. There was no hope left unlike seasons 2 and 3. My head canon says they both felt that was the end, there were no chances left for them to be together again.

Or my other theory is that the show was going to end Olicity but backtracked and decided to bring it back, hence they tacked it on during the later episodes. 

[tv echo]

In the EW Superhero Insider podcast review of 519 (just posted in Starling City Times thread), Natalie Abrams said that, when she first heard about the Diggle/Lyla marital problems, she wondered if Tinah would be a factor and mentioned the Diggle/Tinah chemistry. Natalie said: "Well, when I asked Wendy Mericle about it, Wendy was like, that was purely just the result of great chemistry between two great actors working off of each other. But she says she's not ruling it out in the future."

Edited April 30, 2017 by tv echo

[Buzzyspirit]

9 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In the EW Superhero Insider podcast review of 519 (just posted in Starling City Times thread), Natalie Abrams said that, when she first heard about the Diggle/Lyla marital problems, she wondered if Tinah would be a factor and mentioned the Diggle/Tinah chemistry. Natalie said: "Well, when I asked Wendy Mericle about it, Wendy was like, that was purely just the result of great chemistry between two great actors working off of each other. But she says she's not ruling it out in the future."

I'm pretty sure if I was David Ramsey and if I had any notion of these plans I would  go in a road trip alone to Seattle, to clear my head, before I loose my damn mind and tell WM to just f*** off.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

When the show came back they was roughly 8 months since Olicity were broken up. So again exactly how should they have been written to act around one another. After 8 months wouldn't you be friendly with someone you don't hate and work and see every day? After 8 months are you suppose to discuss or reference your relationship every day? 

I mean regardless the very first episode of the season had Oliver and Diggle flat out talk about whether Olicity would get back together and Oliver seeming hopeful but unbeknownst Felicity was dating someone else.

So really the writers werent acting like Olicity were never together. They started the season off with a "Will Olicity get back together?" Question mark.

For me that problem wasn't the first five episodes.  Like you said, a lot of time had passed and they needed to be able to get along and work together and in those first five episodes where Oliver was hoping something might still happen, he acted the way I'd expect and Felicity made her comment about them not having "that kind of relationship anymore" to explain any of her behavior.  

But after 505 pretty much until 510, they were written as if they'd never been in a relationship and mostly were NOT friends.  Not partners.  Co workers yes, but Oliver was so distant,  from the whole team really, at least until it was time for him to apologize to someone that week.   

And it was the way the show skipped moments that SHOULD have been there.  Like the team teasing Oliver about his date. (Or the fact that he was dropping everything to go to a date) 

Felicity was right there.  She could have been completely fine about it, but we should have been allowed to see HOW she felt and instead the camera avoided her as if she wasn't even there in the room.  It was super awkward and made no sense.  And skipping her reaction just called attention back to the fact that we weren't getting normal behavior.  Which brings up Susan.

We saw Oliver turning to Susan because he wanted someone to confide in, but SHE made even less sense.  Perhaps if they'd let him develop a friendship with someone beside a shady reporter trying to expose him, then I wouldn't have taken a fine tooth comb to nit pick all of his behavior and choices, which then prompted me to do the same with Felicity.  And they came out lacking. 

In the Arrow part of the crossover, there was a big disconnect in how the team not snatched up by the aliens reacted and how any normal person would.  Felicity probably had the least worst reaction, she herself wasn't laughing or joking at least but she wasn't expressing a deep concern either.  There was a real lack of urgency or seriousness that I would have expected.

 I felt like for most of the episodes after 505 that both Oliver and Felicity seemed flat and going through the motions. For Felicity it was a feeling of forced cheerfulness at times.  For Oliver it was a vacant, weary look.  Maybe it was acting choices or maybe it was in the script but Oliver especially came off depressed to me but the show still hasn't confirmed that he was even behaving oddly.  All we had was Chase commenting it looked like he wasn't sleeping well.  But that's it.  No in show explanation to confirm it.  

It was sad, I actually welcomed that shot of Felicity crying alone in 509 because at least it was some real emotion (even if I was annoyed that she didn't get the comfort or support she should have.)  And 510 when both of them FINALLY expressed concern for one another left me wildly happy, because it was how I thought they SHOULD be acting.  And that really stood out.  And NORMAL should not stand out, lol.  

It's been a lot better in the back half of the season, enough so that some of the bad memories and their details are fading, but I stand by my earlier assessment, that Oliver and Felicity were not acting like normal human beings would act around each other.   

   

59 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

Or my other theory is that the show was going to end Olicity but backtracked and decided to bring it back, hence they tacked it on during the later episodes. 

I was worried, very worried at times, that the show was going to end Olicity, but I clung to hope because 505 wasn't a definitive end and 510 reopened all the stuff I'd worried they were purposely burying.  Given the timing of when they write scripts, I feel pretty certain that the return to Olicity wasn't a backtrack or a change.  They wouldn't have been far enough into the season to be influenced by audience reaction.  So I think this was always their plan, I just think it wasn't well executed in the mean time.  

But it's looking REALLY good now!!!  :D 

27 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Well, when I asked Wendy Mericle about it, Wendy was like, that was purely just the result of great chemistry between two great actors working off of each other. But she says she's not ruling it out in the future."

Eh, if you are a producer, it's safer not to rule anything out.  Unless they made the actress that plays Lyla a regular, they have to keep their options flexible.  Not ruling it out doesn't mean they are making it happen, lol.  

[shadow2008]

34 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In the EW Superhero Insider podcast review of 519 (just posted in Starling City Times thread), Natalie Abrams said that, when she first heard about the Diggle/Lyla marital problems, she wondered if Tinah would be a factor and mentioned the Diggle/Tinah chemistry. Natalie said: "Well, when I asked Wendy Mericle about it, Wendy was like, that was purely just the result of great chemistry between two great actors working off of each other. But she says she's not ruling it out in the future."

Well, if they do end up pursuing a real Dinah/Diggle relationship and don't just play up the Dinah/Diggle chemistry for temporary and artificial melodrama with Lyla, it would be further proof that these writers don't know Black Canary AT ALL. Black Canary is a sister to all her fellow women. She would never try to steal the husband of a fellow work colleague. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by shadow2008

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

Well, if they do end up pursuing a real Dinah/Diggle relationship and don't just play up the Dinah/Diggle chemistry for temporary and artificial melodrama with Lyla, it would be further proof that these writers don't know Black Canary AT ALL. Black Canary is a sister to all her fellow women. She would never try to steal the husband of a fellow work colleague. Shame on them if they end up writing anything like this. 

There's no reason to assume she'd be involved with Diggle at all while he was with Lyla.  IF Lyla and Diggle broke up, then I'd start looking to see if they ramp up Dinah and Diggle.  Til then, I don't see any reason to think they'd have anything going on between them that was untoward.  Of course I also don't think they really plan on going there at all.  

Edited April 30, 2017 by BkWurm1

[SmallScreenDiva]

14 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

Well, if they do end up pursuing a real Dinah/Diggle relationship and don't just play up the Dinah/Diggle chemistry for temporary and artificial melodrama with Lyla, it would be further proof that these writers don't know Black Canary AT ALL. Black Canary is a sister to all her fellow women. She would never try to steal the husband of a fellow work colleague. 

These writers do their own version of Black Canar(ies) so I don't expect them to abide by the characterization that she is a sister to all her fellow women (I mean, they already had the original or proto BC on this show jump on the dick of her sister's boyfriend, sooo ...)

I think there's a distinct possibility they were testing Digg/Tinah's romantic chem in that episode she was looking for an apartment. And I think they might be prepping for an eventuality where Lyla is no longer in the picture, likely because of BTS stuff, such as Audrey Marie Anderson getting busier another show and no longer having time to squeeze in Arrow. Right now, Arrow doesn't really have a secondary ship. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[lemotomato]

14 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I think there's a distinct possibility they were testing Digg/Tinah's romantic chem in that episode she was looking for an apartment.

I think this is plausible, since the leaked chem test script turned out on screen to be a scene between Digg/Tinah

[wonderwall]

36 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I think this is plausible, since the leaked chem test script turned out on screen to be a scene between Digg/Tinah

Wait when was this confirmed?

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Wait when was this confirmed?

The sides that were used for "Tina's" audition (the convo between her and Oliver with the kiss, I think) - parts of that scene were used in a scene with Diggle, not Oliver. 

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Wait when was this confirmed?

It wasn't, but this scene seems to be a version of the chem test script, where Tinah is sparring with someone in the lair, the person she's sparring with compliments her and they talk about her background, they look at each other admiringly, etc.

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

It wasn't, but this scene seems to be a version of the chem test script, where Tinah is sparring with someone in the lair, the person she's sparring with compliments her and they talk about her background, they look at each other admiringly, etc.

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The sides that were used for "Tina's" audition (the convo between her and Oliver with the kiss, I think) - parts of that scene were used in a scene with Diggle, not Oliver. 

Thank you! I thought I missed a video of a chem test or something

[shadow2008]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

There's no reason to assume she'd be involved with Diggle at all while he was with Lyla.  IF Lyla and Diggle broke up, then I'd start looking to see if they ramp up Dinah and Diggle.  Til then, I don't see any reason to think they'd have anything going on between them that was untoward.  Of course I also don't think they really plan on going there at all.  

See, while it wouldn't be my preferred option, I think I could live with a Diggle/Dinah relationship if the writers handle it like you suggested. It's just that in light of the show's history, I don't have any faith in them to do that. If it happens, I am very concerned that they would choose the most melodramatic and icky avenue possible - which would end up destroying both characters in the process. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by shadow2008

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

See, I could live with a Diggle/Dinah relationship if the writers handle it like you suggested. It's just that in light of the show's history, I don't have any faith in them to do that. If it happens, I am very concerned that they would choose the most melodramatic and icky avenue possible - destroying both characters in the process. 

Except for Oliver and Laurel kinda sorta but not technically cheating on Tommy, this show hasn't really started relationships while someone else is a serious option.  (Ray was only Jello).  I'm not concerned at all that Dig would ever cheat on Lyla or choose someone over her.

[Belinea]

I have to admit that ever since they have messed with Diggle's child, I somehow feel less connected to their family relationship. Mainly because I feel as though they aren't necessarily that connected to them as a family. I can't base that on anything but my disappointment that they erased Baby Sara which I will be forever bitter about.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Belinea

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I have to admit ever since they messed with Diggle's child, I somehow feel less connected to that relationship. Mainly because I feel as though they aren't necessarily that connected to them as a family. I can't base that on anything but my disappointment that they erased Baby Sara which I will be forever bitter about.

I feel exactly the same way, I think it shows how important the Diggle family is to the writers in that it's not important at all since they erased their child. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I have to admit ever since they messed with Diggle's child, I somehow feel less connected to that relationship. Mainly because I feel as though they aren't necessarily that connected to them as a family. I can't base that on anything but my disappointment that they erased Baby Sara which I will be forever bitter about.

Hmm...will this be how the show gets Connor Hawke to be the stepson of the Black Canary?  Since apparently in the future, Connor is the new Green Arrow after John and Oliver, they could split up Lyla and John, put John with Dinah and then Connor becomes her step son and 40 years in the future, he's the new Green Arrow called Connor Hawke.

Edited April 30, 2017 by catrox14

[insomniadreams88]

I think that pushing the newbies also hurt Diggle and Lyla's relationship. Rene had to tell Lyla that Diggle would want to see his child on his birthday?

520 is Lyla's last episode this season, right? I think where they leave them by the end of the episode should give some indication about their plans for next year, whether it's Diggle/Lyla continuing in the same capacity or maybe testing Diggle/Dinah as an actual possibility. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by insomniadreams88
Auto correct on Lyla's name in only one place for some reason

[leopardprint]

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

520 is Lyla's last episode this season, right? I think where they leave them by the end of the episode should give some indication about their plans for next year, whether it's Diggle/Lyla continuing in the same capacity or maybe testing Diggle/Dinah as an actual possibility. 

The promo scenes show the whole team together sans OF, OTA and then Rene/Curtis. I wonder if Dinah and Diggle will have side scenes as well. It would seem sort of odd if Diggle is off engaging in martial marital disputes while Oliver and Felicity are suffocating. I'm guessing Lyla is helping in the bunker or the domestic issues are going to be minor. 

[Morrigan2575]

Looks like the Paps just confirmed Merlyn's death

[Hiveminder]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Looks like the Paps just confirmed Merlyn's death

If Merlyns is all dead and not mostly dead, then praise Jesus, hallelujah. Thank you, Lord. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Hiveminder

[Belinea]

Who here called that he will die saving Thea? I feel like you could also write for the show :-)

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Who here called that he will die saving Thea? I feel like you could also write for the show :-)

Most of us?

[leopardprint]

5 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Who here called that he will die saving Thea? I feel like you could also write for the show :-)

I wish people here did write for the show. And also did the PR and interviews.

Also, re Merlyn:

Edited April 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[shadow2008]

Well, I'm more than glad that Merlyn's finally going to croak, but it's pretty telling that even HE gets a somewhat heroic/sacrificial death while all the women die as helpless victims. Guggie and co. can say whatever they want, but it's undeniable that this show has some serious gender issues.  

Edited April 30, 2017 by shadow2008

[Mrs. de Winter]

So both of Thea's biological parents will end up dying - in front of her (it seems) - to save her.   I feel like that should mess her up more than ever.  But on this show it will probably not be a thing.

Every time I consider Thea's child and young adulthood I want someone to punch Barry even harder when changes the timeline again so he gets the perfect future he feels he deserves. 

But back to Thea - didn't Oliver find a file with her name on it on his dad's computer when he came back to Starling in the flashback episode? Did we ever find out what was in it?  

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Most of us?

Exactly. I think some folks even called it the moment Malcolm was revealed to be her father.

[leopardprint]

I'm just going to imagine that this is what is going on in Thea's head directly preceding his death and she wills it into being through the power of positive thinking.

But yes, Arrow has a serious fixation with being a father (not such much with the acting like a father).

If I were Thea I would have peaced out to Walter's house at the end of S2, y'all. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by leopardprint
gif had an unacceptable typo

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

If I were Thea I would have peaced out to Walter's house at the end of S2, y'all. 

I presume Walter has gone off to Australia again and Thea can go be with him :)

[Belinea]

Why would JB give it away though? I mean, not that I care all that much, but it is still a big spoiler...

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Why would JB give it away though? I mean, not that I care all that much, but it is still a big spoiler...

I asked the same question regarding SA spoiling Felicity's bf, and that was supposed to be the annual premiere twist. Who knows?