Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

14 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Which is funny since Matc said that's his big regret with Olicity last season that they didn't let the relationship breathe because they had tent poles they had to reach and therefore broke them up to soon; and now they are doing basically the same thing in prolonging their reunion because they have tent poles they need to reach 

I'm almost positive MG said once early on (I think it was S2 or S3) that they have an ending in mind and write towards that. That doesn't always mean the finale because they do it on big/little terms. In S2 he said they wanted that O/L hallway fight and then wrote backwards on how to get there. Same with LL getting her job back, they wanted her in the DAs office by 17 and wrote backwards to get there. 

They have some end goal with Susan, probably related to the Bratva so they're writing backwards to get there. That's why Oliver has to go talk to Susan in 7 and 9 even though it makes no sense character wise. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Mellowyellow]

27 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I think it would be hard to reach Chuck and Blair levels of cockblocking plot twists. 

The Arrow writers aren't at sleeping with your love interest uncle/Indecent Proposal/drunk filled rage/married and pregnant to another man yet but killing love interest rebound boy is close to the money. 

But I'm not going to lie maybe it's because I was a naive teenager for most of Gossip Girl years but I still got a little happy and weepy when Chuck and Blair finally got married and had a kid. Even though I totally get how unhealthy they became. I can be shallow and not a very good feminist like that sometimes when it comes to ships haha.

Gossip Girl is another show that's a case study on how to take to actors with amazing chemistry and dynamic and squander it. 

I started watching Arrow knowing Olicity were engaged but then I also realised it was on the CW and my only other exposure to CW was Gossip Girl, Reign and I was only about 5 episodes into the Flash.

So when I first started watching it I fully thought everyone was going to sleep with everyone ( a la Gossip Girl) and kept waiting for Felicity to date Diggle even though I thought it was going to be the most bizzare thing ever!   

@BkWurm1 You are NOT allowed to be negative missy!!!!! I depend on you to be one of the positive posters! Shame on you! *wags finger at you*

[AyChihuahua]

55 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

This really rings true.  They have this Gotcha! moment they want to do so everything else has to revolve around it. 

They didn't have to write a boyfriend for that purpose; they easily could have written her a good friend. Have her get closer to Paul, who's right there. I mean that was probably a bonus, but I feel pretty confident that she got an LI bc he was going to get an LI (or two) and he couldn't move on first after being the one to screw up their relationship. Which, at least, means they are occasionally aware of how normal people perceive things. A skill they largely lack.

Character-wise I've never had any problem with either of them dating others (though dating a reporter is moronic). I have a problem with it story-wise. One true love does not include rando bangs. Westley didn't turn to Buttercup at the end and tell her he was going to bang randos for awhile, then they could Netflix and chill together and see how it goes. Everything they've done to cheapen O/F has been such a bummer.

[thegirlsleuth]

I am one of the people that think Tina is going to be the new Canary, and so they are at least going to give the canon pairing a shot.  Considering how many comic canon masks they added in this season, I do think there was some sort of corporate mandate to up the comic quotient, and I think having a new Black Canary will be part of it, as is sidelining of the non-comic Olicity as well as Thea. Right now I put Oliver and Felicity reuniting at 50/50. I think they are going to want to give the nuBC/GA romance a test. They will want it to succeed, but will have Olicity as a plan B if it doesn't work.  My one bit of "glass half full" is that I am 100 percent sure that nuBC and Green Arrow won't have the same chemistry as Oliver and Felicity. So maybe my "Oliver and Felicity reuniting" odds just upped to 60 or 70 percent? I just hope their characters haven't been damaged beyond recognition.

I have liked when Felicity has gone toe-to-toe with Malcolm and Ras, and her going gray could be really interesting.  My concern is that we are approaching the dismal episodes 11 - 15, which means the melodrama is going to be turned up to 11.  I am worried we're going to get something like the Laurel alcoholism arc which . . . blech. There is also the possibility that her arc will be tied up in 7.5 minutes and really be about bringing Vigilante into the fold, but I'm hoping for an arc like Diggle got with his brother last season.  I thought that was really well handled, and David Ramsey did some great work.

[Velocity23]

If Felicity is with the team and doing her own secret vigilantism on the side i dont see how there is any side-lining going on regarding Felicity.  I could see that argument in regards to Diggle and Thea. But Diggle had quite a strong storyline when he killed his brother so i am guessing its Felicity's turn. Even SA hinted that the focus will probably more on Felicity than Diggle. Tina could be a replacement in regards to Thea since WM hinted that Thea still wont be coming back full time. 

[MaisyDaisy]

Has anyone else seen the rumors that another spin off in on the cards? I havent seen any real sources yet, so have just taken it with a huge grain of salt (I am so salty over the writing of Felicity this season, so salt is easy to find). But I have been thinking- what if thats why they are sooooo desperate to push WD? The whole "He is so amazing, he is kickarse, the actor is super talented, WD is just like another OQ but cooler" might just be them trying to hype him up, because they need him to work for the new show they have invested in. Perhaps even Tina is coming in, and they will use their formular of having the newbie have a brief romance with a lead (FS perviously, but OQ this time) before launching them off into their new show. Only they have combined it during a time when they decided to write to woo the comic crowd back, and have pretty much eroded the core of what a huge amount of other viewers were tuning in for.

[Velocity23]

That kind of thing would have to happen during February sweeps. And there is no way that is happening with Oliver still going strong with reporter until she reveals her true colours in front of him. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Velocity23

[Cleanqueen]

I know everyone keeps saying they want to woo in comic fans but they won't gain any comic fans by having a replacement Canary in the form of Tina, a lot of them would be pissed. So I don't think their intentions is for comic stans. I think they have a goal in mind for the season and are more focused on that than actual characterization. They need to somehow parallel oliver being rescued on the Island to the present day, it'll be a come full circle scenario. I would love it if while he's off the Island to go Home he ends up going to Felicity in the present and actually proclaiming that she is his home.

Honestly Olicity can elope and I'd be ok with it, they almost got married last year. Something drastic has to happen for them to find their way back to each other and boom they decide to elope because they cant fathom the idea of being separated again.

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 hours ago, LeighAn said:

I'm talking them being actually married. My gut for a while is that they've been writing Olicity they way they have in the first half because they have something big in the back half of the season. Sort of like in season three they wrote Olicity all angst and doom and gloom because they had planned for LOA lair sex and running off into the sunset. Sort of like how in season 4 they wrote super domesticated Olicity because they had planned in the back half for broken up Olicity.

Been thinking about this and I wouldn't be surprised if they postpone the Olicity reunion to Season 6, but I wouldn't be shocked either if they actually have them get married (or elope) at the end of the season. The last 2 eps got me thinking this. They could have used them breaking up in the "memories flashback." Instead of the final shot being of the fake wedding, it could have been Felicity putting her ring on the table. And then the red pen "proposal" stance. These people are reminding casual viewers about marriage and weddings. Not sure how they're going to get from here to there, but they have 14 episodes to do a pivot. But they've taken fewer episodes in the episodes to do a turnaround. If it doesn't happen during February sweeps, maybe last episode of the season.

[statsgirl]

If they make Tina the new Black Canary, they will piss off Laurel fans.  If they make Tina Oliver's love interest, they will piss off Felicity and Olicity fans.  How big is the pool that will be left?  Surely someone who works on the show realizes that.

I think Billy had to be a love interest for Felicity because they needed someone to keep her and Oliver apart.  The plan was to show Oliver and Felicity working together well and being Dad and Mom to the n00bs while having a solid reason why they couldn't get together again.  Now that Billy is dead, it's Oliver's guilt for killing him and Felicity's guilt for not loving him enough that is keeping them apart.

They're still writing for the tent poles though.  The mess that was the BMD didn't teach them how to not do that.

57 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I I think they have a goal in mind for the season and are more focused on that than actual characterization.

Yep, same old, same old.

I don't see how Oliver can start up a new relationship, between his feelings for Felicity and his guilt at killing Billy but then, I'm not Guggie.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

@BkWurm1 You are NOT allowed to be negative missy!!!!! I depend on you to be one of the positive posters! Shame on you! *wags finger at you*

My apologies.  :D

I will try to put my concerns for Felicity's dark arc aside as irrational.  

As for the other, if it makes it any better, I may doubt if the show has any firm plans, but I think what has come before and the chemistry that we see on screen between Oliver and Felicity is what will bring the writing back around eventually to them.  I just don't want to waste a lot of time on dead ends while they wait to "see what happens". 

[Trisha]

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If they make Tina the new Black Canary, they will piss off Laurel fans.  If they make Tina Oliver's love interest, they will piss off Felicity and Olicity fans.  How big is the pool that will be left?  Surely someone who works on the show realizes that.

This is what I keep thinking too. Who is the core audience in the writers' minds? Because the abrupt lack of trending and increased saltiness on SA's FB page makes me think they've lost most Olicity fans, while Reddit's current meltdown over the ep 10 spoilers makes me think comic fans are soon to follow. 

That being said, pretty much every mainstream site that's still bothering to recap this show has been giving S5 glowing reviews (The AV Club, IGN, etc). I wouldn't be surprised if that's the writers' barometer, and they just keep down the same path they'd planned. The general fan (i.e. not shippers or comic lovers) seems happy. It's odd to me to go after your least invested fanbases during peak TV, but it's working for them press-wise. Ratings-wise may be another story (but seeing as shows like Crazy Ex Girlfriend regularly dips below 0.4, I think the Arrow ratings would have to bottom out a lot more for the CW to care). Mark Pedowitz has talked about how the network is more concerned about revenues from streaming than broadcast, and Arrow always does well on Netflix, etc. So I'm guessing the writers will keep hitting whatever tentpoles they set out at the first of the season, even if their most fervent audience is unhappy. They'll try Tina out and if she doesn't work, Olicity will be reunited for May sweeps and they'll say that was their plan all along. 

[Velocity23]

35 minutes ago, Trisha said:

They'll try Tina out and if she doesn't work, Olicity will be reunited for May sweeps and they'll say that was their plan all along. 

Honestly where does this notion comes from? The show is still pushing the reporter angle and it has been given it more focus than the Isobel relationship in s2 (they have him confiding in the reporter in episode 7, then bringing her as his date in episode 9 and once again confiding in her in episode 9). That is still going to be brought up during February sweeps as is her upcoming betrayal. There are no indicators that show that they are planning anything for Tina outside a new female on the team, after Artemis betrayed them and Thea is not coming back permanently. I don't think they ever went away from Olicity as their main pairing, they just needed for Oliver and Felicity to be completely apart so they could play up the Bratva beats with the reporter. 

[rtalive]

10 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I am one of the people that think Tina is going to be the new Canary, and so they are at least going to give the canon pairing a shot.  Considering how many comic canon masks they added in this season, I do think there was some sort of corporate mandate to up the comic quotient, and I think having a new Black Canary will be part of it, as is sidelining of the non-comic Olicity as well as Thea. Right now I put Oliver and Felicity reuniting at 50/50. I think they are going to want to give the nuBC/GA romance a test. They will want it to succeed, but will have Olicity as a plan B if it doesn't work.  My one bit of "glass half full" is that I am 100 percent sure that nuBC and Green Arrow won't have the same chemistry as Oliver and Felicity. So maybe my "Oliver and Felicity reuniting" odds just upped to 60 or 70 percent? I just hope their characters haven't been damaged beyond recognition.

I have liked when Felicity has gone toe-to-toe with Malcolm and Ras, and her going gray could be really interesting.  My concern is that we are approaching the dismal episodes 11 - 15, which means the melodrama is going to be turned up to 11.  I am worried we're going to get something like the Laurel alcoholism arc which . . . blech. There is also the possibility that her arc will be tied up in 7.5 minutes and really be about bringing Vigilante into the fold, but I'm hoping for an arc like Diggle got with his brother last season.  I thought that was really well handled, and David Ramsey did some great work.

Well I am a little doubtful there will be new Canary, but yes I guess, if there is, maybe 50% they will try to make her Oliver's endgame. The think is in season 2, when Sara was the Canary, they  gave us Green Arrow/ Black Canary pair, because at that point no one knew, if Laurel will get the Black Canary name and she and Oliver were done anyway. So for most of the people Sara/Oliver were that couple. The thing is, this didn't last for whatever creative reasons. So now pushing the Green Arrow/Black Canary(the rumored new one) couple again but with a character that has nothing to do with the Canary on the first place is even stranger decision. 

[Velocity23]

But nobody said they are pushing it ... 

[tangerine95]

I really don't think its very likely a show that already had to change their main endgame relationship would do that again for no reason other than the comic canon they already proved multiple times they don't care about. Sara was their BC in season 2 for all intents and purposes and the GA/BC relationship with Oliver and Sara was still written as a stall for olicity and not anything that was endgame material. If they do anything like that with Oliver and the new BC and tbh I don't think they will,  it would be a stall as well.  But if they do for me at least the rest of it wouldn't matter because that would be the last straw  and I don't think i would want Oliver with Felicity after that. 

[Cleanqueen]

Tina isn't like the reporter, if Oliver and Tina are being written as potential love interests then Felicity NEEDS to leave the bunker. There is a reason why we haven't seen many felicity and oliver scenes since he got with Susan. Any moment olicity would have would throw whatever else they are trying to sell out of  the window. Like if we knew Tina was just a cop who didn't joint the team then I would be a bit wary but at this point I really can't see how they would try to do that with her on the team unless they never wanted to revisit olicity again which we know isn't the case

[Trisha]

56 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Honestly where is this notion coming from? The show is still pushing the reporter angle and it has been given it more focus than the Isobel relationship in s2 (they have him confiding in the reporter in episode 7, then bringing her as his date in episode 9 and once again confiding in her in episode 9). That is still going to be brought up during February sweeps as is her upcoming betrayal. There are no indicators that show that they are planning anything for Tina outside a new female on the team, after Artemis betrayed them and Thea is not coming back permanently. I don't think they ever went away from Olicity as their main pairing, they just needed for Oliver and Felicity to be completely apart so they could play up the Bratva beats with the reporter. 

I think the notion is mostly coming from the leaked Tina audition sides which is usually a terrible indication of actual upcoming plot - except everything else about the sides has come true with this character. Everything you say about what should happen makes complete sense but I no longer trust the writers to keep making sense. I still think Olicity is probably endgame - but so much weirdness is happening this season that I wouldn't be surprised if there was a command from on high to amp up the masked heroes element (and that makes me worried about yet another attempt at a GA/BC pairing). 

And if they are working towards an Olicity reunion by the end of the season (which is totally probable) I think they're doing a really bad job of setting it up. We're not even getting crumbs at this point, and the show's attitude towards shippers on social media isn't adding to anyone's hope. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

Honestly where does this notion comes from? 

An utter lack of trust and faith in these writers.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

Honestly where does this notion comes from? The show is still pushing the reporter angle and it has been given it more focus than the Isobel relationship in s2 (they have him confiding in the reporter in episode 7, then bringing her as his date in episode 9 and once again confiding in her in episode 9). That is still going to be brought up during February sweeps as is her upcoming betrayal.

But as you show, they're not serious about the reporter as anything but a temporary stall.  Like Isabel, she came on trying to betray Oliver through Thea, like Isabel, she's a leggy brunette who he shouldn't trust but does.  But unlike Isabel, they've been pushing hard that Oliver didn't sleep with her, and unlike Mayo who we saw clearly slept with Felicity.

The reporter is a plot contrivance rather than a love interest.  Either Oliver won't have another love interest this season or they're saving that role for Tina.

[way2interested]

The timeline's just so weird to me though from what they normally do. At this point they're kind of all-in for Tina as a character since by the time she actually appears on the show, they'll be on around 516 and be planning the final 3 episodes, not giving much wiggle room (a little bit, but not much if she becomes really significant in the plot) for the character if hypothetically she's ill-received. Then, still without any actual feedback on Tina, they would set her as LI for 515, only 3 episodes after possibly ending whatever thing with Susan, to follow the pattern of February sweeps. I guess they could always just set it later but it would be weird to do it for a non-sweeps episode (but, hey, they had Olicity have sex in 320 right before sweeps, so it could happen). If this is a thing that's happening, they are basically going all in without waiting for character feedback which, sure, they could/would do, but it's still so awkward unless they are planning a Gotcha! moment and making the relationship not matter anyway (or are actually planning to wait for feedback and then planning to keep it/add it/remove it per reactions). 

[AyChihuahua]

2 hours ago, Trisha said:

This is what I keep thinking too. Who is the core audience in the writers' minds? Because the abrupt lack of trending and increased saltiness on SA's FB page makes me think they've lost most Olicity fans, while Reddit's current meltdown over the ep 10 spoilers makes me think comic fans are soon to follow. 

IMO, they're going for generally comics-positive dudebros. The types who watch the awful DC movies in the theater, but don't stand in line. And, IMO, a hot chick in tight leather with cool fight scenes will win a lot of them over. After all, "Anyone with boobs can get a frat boy to do anything." 

[lemotomato]

35 minutes ago, Trisha said:

And if they are working towards an Olicity reunion by the end of the season (which is totally probable) I think they're doing a really bad job of setting it up. We're not even getting crumbs at this point, and the show's attitude towards shippers on social media isn't adding to anyone's hope. 

I don't know if you were watching season 3 live, but there were no crumbs in that season either until episode 318. Oliver and Felicity got together in the same episode where she broke up with Ray. The writers have a track record for not setting things up, is all I'm saying.

Edited December 20, 2016 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

43 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Tina isn't like the reporter, if Oliver and Tina are being written as potential love interests then Felicity NEEDS to leave the bunker. There is a reason why we haven't seen many felicity and oliver scenes since he got with Susan. Any moment olicity would have would throw whatever else they are trying to sell out of  the window. Like if we knew Tina was just a cop who didn't joint the team then I would be a bit wary but at this point I really can't see how they would try to do that with her on the team unless they never wanted to revisit olicity again which we know isn't the case

I'm confused by the notion that Felicity has to leave the bunker. I keep seeing it and I don't get it. She was in the bunker when Oliver was with Sara, she was in the bunker when she was with Ray. The only time she was removed from the bunker was 4b and that was to set up Laurels death. When they moved Felicity into the Love Interest role, they actually had the previous LI be instant BFFs with her. 

Honestly, if they feel they can't have Felicity be around Oliver at all to sell any LI then I don't understand how they can feel they can go any direction but Olicity.

[calliope1975]

Is there any news on Thea? I feel bad for Willa Holland. Is Thea just her brother's keeper now? She's barely a mask, has no LI, and just seems to exist to smooth over Oliver's inattentiveness. What's her narrative point now other than being the last surviving member of Oliver's family?

[Cleanqueen]

35 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm confused by the notion that Felicity has to leave the bunker. I keep seeing it and I don't get it. She was in the bunker when Oliver was with Sara, she was in the bunker when she was with Ray. The only time she was removed from the bunker was 4b and that was to set up Laurels death. When they moved Felicity into the Love Interest role, they actually had the previous LI be instant BFFs with her. 

Honestly, if they feel they can't have Felicity be around Oliver at all to sell any LI then I don't understand how they can feel they can go any direction but Olicity.

And we saw how the whole Sara thing played out. Also Sara was someone Oliver knew and had a previous relationship with so it wasn't out of the box for them to get together. Also Oliver and Felicity weren't even close to being a thing. So unless Tina is a past fling then I'm not sure it's the same thing. 

Ray and Felicity dated but Ray wasn't part of the team, so Felicity and him weren't having a relationship while he fought alongside Oliver. And by the time ray became the Atom they broke up. 

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Is there any news on Thea? I feel bad for Willa Holland. Is Thea just her brother's keeper now? She's barely a mask, has no LI, and just seems to exist to smooth over Oliver's inattentiveness. What's her narrative point now other than being the last surviving member of Oliver's family?

Is there any chance Willa asked for less screen time? She seems to prefer traveling/hanging with her husband, and as dtissagirl has said, screen time isn't really a perk. Bc yeah, her storyline makes less sense than Felicity's, almost. 

[Velocity23]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

But as you show, they're not serious about the reporter as anything but a temporary stall.  Like Isabel, she came on trying to betray Oliver through Thea, like Isabel, she's a leggy brunette who he shouldn't trust but does.  But unlike Isabel, they've been pushing hard that Oliver didn't sleep with her, and unlike Mayo who we saw clearly slept with Felicity.

The reporter is a plot contrivance rather than a love interest.  Either Oliver won't have another love interest this season or they're saving that role for Tina.

Easily fixed if they have an episode start with the morning after during 5x10 - 5x15. They would not be spending this much time with the reporter, showing Oliver opening up, letting her in if they were lining up another LI. I feel its a completely different situation than Sara. Sara was there since the start of s2, they were showing the connection on the island and in present time. And even Sara was called by the EPs as a stall for Olicity not even for L/O (that is how done they were with that pairing).

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

Is there any news on Thea? I feel bad for Willa Holland. Is Thea just her brother's keeper now? She's barely a mask, has no LI, and just seems to exist to smooth over Oliver's inattentiveness. What's her narrative point now other than being the last surviving member of Oliver's family?

She's also there to continually remind Oliver that dating Susan is a horrible idea. Only for him not to listen to her. Honestly, that's what bugs me the most about Susan as Oliver's LI. Here's this woman who manipulated his sister and whom his sister doesn't like, and he doesn't even seem to care. Especially since that seems to be Thea's only storyline - covering for Oliver, shaking her head at his choice of date and suiting up when they want her to without any real explanation or follow-up. (I still can't believe they had her suit up in 509 to just stand on a roof.) Also, I can't help but feel that when the Susan story blows up in his face, Thea's probably going to be the one who ends up doing damage control. Oliver will probably be dealing with something Bratva-related at the same time and have no time to be mayor/deal with the fallout. 

Maybe Felicity can take Thea over to the new people she hangs with. Considering they've barely shown Felicity and Thea interacting, sure, let that friendship be considered "new." I'm really hoping that the next bit of news about 5B we get is about something for Thea outside of Oliver.

(Lance too. The poor guy. I kind of wish Thea and Lance would leave Oliver to handle City Hall by himself for a couple of episodes. See how he does.) 

[Velocity23]

Well i could imagine Lance having another crisis. Thea is there for pep talks for Oliver and Lance this season. 

[Chaser]

9 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

And we saw how the whole Sara thing played out. Also Sara was someone Oliver knew and had a previous relationship with so it wasn't out of the box for them to get together. Also Oliver and Felicity weren't even close to being a thing. So unless Tina is a past fling then I'm not sure it's the same thing. 

Ray and Felicity dated but Ray wasn't part of the team, so Felicity and him weren't having a relationship while he fought alongside Oliver. And by the time ray became the Atom they broke up. 

I know the circumstances and relationships are different but when they were in those relationships they simply didn't write scenes together. They can remove Felicity from the bunker but they don't have to in order to achieve the same goal. Moving Felicity around doesn't remove her from the audiences mind. The only way to do that would be to kill her off. IMO that's there only way to kill Olicity and they clearly didn't take that option last season. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

17 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

She's also there to continually remind Oliver that dating Susan is a horrible idea. Only for him not to listen to her. Honestly, that's what bugs me the most about Susan as Oliver's LI. Here's this woman who manipulated his sister and whom his sister doesn't like, and he doesn't even seem to care. Especially since that seems to be Thea's only storyline - covering for Oliver, shaking her head at his choice of date and suiting up when they want her to without any real explanation or follow-up. (I still can't believe they had her suit up in 509 to just stand on a roof.) Also, I can't help but feel that when the Susan story blows up in his face, Thea's probably going to be the one who ends up doing damage control. Oliver will probably be dealing with something Bratva-related at the same time and have no time to be mayor/deal with the fallout. 

Maybe Felicity can take Thea over to the new people she hangs with. Considering they've barely shown Felicity and Thea interacting, sure, let that friendship be considered "new." I'm really hoping that the next bit of news about 5B we get is about something for Thea outside of Oliver.

(Lance too. The poor guy. I kind of wish Thea and Lance would leave Oliver to handle City Hall by himself for a couple of episodes. See how he does.) 

That's part of the reason why I still hope Oliver is trying to play the reporter..he has to learn something sooner or later and fix his own mess right? I wish at least, LOL.

Thea/Lance was probably my favorite part of the season but it felt like they were on their own, independent show. 

[statsgirl]

Oliver still worked with, trusted and then slept with Isabel after she tried to destroy his family's company and fire everyone and continued to be a bitch to Felicity.  The sad part is that he's still not thinking with the head that's on his shoulders.

35 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Is there any news on Thea? I feel bad for Willa Holland. Is Thea just her brother's keeper now? She's barely a mask, has no LI, and just seems to exist to smooth over Oliver's inattentiveness. What's her narrative point now other than being the last surviving member of Oliver's family?

Like Quentin, she got sidelined for the n00bs.  I"m still hoping they will thin out Team B (please get rid of Wild Dong!) and there will be a role for Thea to play again other than babysitting Oliver and Quentin and throwing parties.

28 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Easily fixed if they have an episode start with the morning after during 5x10 - 5x15. They would not be spending this much time with the reporter, showing Oliver opening up, letting her in if they were lining up another LI.

That's my point though, the reporter isn't a love interest at all, she's just a plot contrivance to connect the Bratva stories.  Billy was both love interest and plot contrivance.

So if they want Oliver to have another love interest this season, as they've been teasing in interviews saying Oliver needs to look around too, it will likely be Tina.

[Velocity23]

I am sorry i didnt see any teasing of several LI. There was one interview where SA said that he mention to writers if they want Oliver act like a playboy they should write to that. But its obvious they not taking that road even with Susan. They taking it slow and we only had kisses and confidences between them. We dont have Oliver hooking up with different woman but it seems he is taking a chance with Susan unless he is playing her. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Velocity23

[Midnight Lullaby]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

That's my point though, the reporter isn't a love interest at all, she's just a plot contrivance to connect the Bratva stories.  Billy was both love interest and plot contrivance.

So if they want Oliver to have another love interest this season, as they've been teasing in interviews saying Oliver needs to look around too, it will likely be Tina.

IMO there isn't enough time this season to set up a new LI that is a complete stranger to Oliver. The reporter is there as a stall and because of plot reasons but they are still dating, sharing significant scenes together and it seems that will keep going on for a while. In season 2 there was no need to take time to create a foundation for Oliver and Sara because there were the flashbacks, with Tina they would have to create everything from scratch if they want them to have a significant relationship. I could have seen that if Oliver hooked up once with the reporter or if she was gone before the mid season finale, now it seems too late. I'm leaning towards a Oliver/Felicity reunion at the end of the season but if they want to pair him with Tina I don't see that happening before the next season.

[Proteus]

59 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Is there any chance Willa asked for less screen time? She seems to prefer traveling/hanging with her husband, and as dtissagirl has said, screen time isn't really a perk. Bc yeah, her storyline makes less sense than Felicity's, almost. 

I don't see any signs that WH doesn't want to film.

[Cleanqueen]

I like where Thea is right now, I think they'll probably build her up more in the Mayor's office with impending drama and as Wendy said she will suit up here and there. Not sure what much can be done for her right now. Even if she was back on the team, she'd just suit up on go out on the field.

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I don't know if you were watching season 3 live, but there were no crumbs in that season either until episode 318. Oliver and Felicity got together in the same episode where she broke up with Ray. The writers have a track record for not setting things up, is all I'm saying.

I watched S3 live and it was ALL crumbs before they hooked up in 3x20. ("I just want her to be happy," "And you know how I feel about her," "You met him for like ten seconds/I knew it in five," "I know what it's like to want someone and not be with them," "As long as you're in my life I'm happy," "You're the man that I lo...believe in," "You're so focused on people you love that you forget there are people who love you.") Even when Felicity was with Ray it was obvious she was still in love with Oliver. Where are those hints this season? For people who love using the word "organic," the writers aren't doing a lot to set up a reunion. 

[AyChihuahua]

29 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Where are those hints this season?

Well, he remembers her first and last name sometimes?

[Password]

33 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I watched S3 live and it was ALL crumbs before they hooked up in 3x20. ("I just want her to be happy," "And you know how I feel about her," "You met him for like ten seconds/I knew it in five," "I know what it's like to want someone and not be with them," "As long as you're in my life I'm happy," "You're the man that I lo...believe in," "You're so focused on people you love that you forget there are people who love you.") Even when Felicity was with Ray it was obvious she was still in love with Oliver. 

Well when you put it like that... 

 

4 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Well, he remembers her first and last name sometimes?

WHEN? 

[AyChihuahua]

10 minutes ago, Password said:

WHEN? 

Ha! Okay, I can't swear to last name but I think he's called her by her first a few times, so at least he sometimes remembers that?

[statsgirl]

1.  The balcony scene, where Oliver was just waiting to hear Felicity say that it wasn't real with Mayo because she was hoping to get back together with Oliver;

2. Felicity at the holiday party: "I'm hoping my friends love you as much as I lo....like you."

Crumbs, but they are there.

Remember, these are the EPs who had to give interviews to explains when Evelyn joined Prometheus and that Oliver didn't sleep with Susan.

Edited December 20, 2016 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

2. Felicity at the holiday party: "I'm hoping my friends love you as much as I lo....like you."

Can you expound on this one? I hadn't heard about that. If she was talking to Oliver, who were the friends? 

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Remember, these are the EPs who had to give interviews to explains when Evelyn joined Prometheus and that Oliver didn't sleep with Susan.

IMO that's less explanation and more damage control. Anyone who's watched tv, ever, knows exactly what that scene signaled. I mean sure, there probably wasn't a lot of sleeping happening, but there was something.

[Cleanqueen]

I think 5x05 was a pretty big episode in showing that they still do love and care deeply about each other. Rewatched that episode and oliver was pretty much hoping and waiting felicity would say it wasn't really real with Malone and their last scene where they just basically had eye sex as they said they were a mortal lock pretty much signaled that no one else could ever really come close to what they had. Then Susan entered in to the scene and writers are writing Oliver for plot rather than anything else so all his dumb decisions factor in to that.

[arjumand]

19 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Can you expound on this one? I hadn't heard about that. If she was talking to Oliver, who were the friends? 

IMO that's less explanation and more damage control. Anyone who's watched tv, ever, knows exactly what that scene signaled. I mean sure, there probably wasn't a lot of sleeping happening, but there was something.

Felicity was talking to Billy, at the Christmas party.

The line was "I just want them to love you as much as I llllllllll-ike you."

And then she intro'd him as her Malone-friend or some such nonsense.

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, arjumand said:

Felicity was talking to Billy, at the Christmas party.

The line was "I just want them to love you as much as I llllllllll-ike you."

And then she intro'd him as her Malone-friend or some such nonsense.

So it had nothing to do with Oliver? 

[ComicFan777]

To me, this season's crumbs have been a little more subtle because the writers want it to stay ambiguous for the time being.
I take a few of their writing choices to be crumbs to point to olicity being a very important relationship:

- Oliver's mortal lock conversation
- Since the dreamworld was sorta manifestation of all their thoughts, the dreamworld was sprinkled with dialogue from meaningful olicity moments throughout to make the world seem real to Oliver, with Smoak Tech lighting his way out - to me, showed that olicity is still prevalent in Oliver's mind.
- It's implied that both Oliver and Felicity had the penprosal flashback at the same time, which to me showed that they still have a very special, deep connection in present time despite being apart.

The importance of everything of course is up for interpretation, but I take these as little crumbs of hope that the writers want us to still remember olicity.

[arjumand]

1 minute ago, AyChihuahua said:

So it had nothing to do with Oliver? 

Well it meant as much as anything Felicity did this season - COMIC RELIEF ONLY. I'm just really tired of all this. Haha, Felicity is nervous about introducing Billy to Oliver. Then she makes a weird and awkward double date suggestion to Oliver and Susan, the latter looking at Felicity like something she stepped in. Because Felicity is actually a shut-in,you know, and doesn't understand this thing you call PARTY and APPROPRIATE CONVERSATION FOR PARTY.

We're all scraping together hope because she never says she loves/loved Billy, she just (many /l/s 'liked' him). And Oliver thinks Susan is beyond hot (made a remark about her sexy dress). It's not true love, you guys!

And now Felicity is going to turn into Dark Willow, apparently. Whatever.

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, arjumand said:

Well it meant as much as anything Felicity did this season - COMIC RELIEF ONLY. I'm just really tired of all this. Haha, Felicity is nervous about introducing Billy to Oliver. Then she makes a weird and awkward double date suggestion to Oliver and Susan, the latter looking at Felicity like something she stepped in. Because Felicity is actually a shut-in,you know, and doesn't understand this thing you call PARTY and APPROPRIATE CONVERSATION FOR PARTY.

We're all scraping together hope because she never says she loves/loved Billy, she just (many /l/s 'liked' him). And Oliver thinks Susan is beyond hot (made a remark about her sexy dress). It's not true love, you guys!

And now Felicity is going to turn into Dark Willow, apparently. Whatever.

Thanks!

I'm pretty curious re whether the writers/EPs know how close they are to the edge with all this. They seem to be constantly surprised by viewer reaction, so I'd guess...no.

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

To me, this season's crumbs have been a little more subtle because the writers want it to stay ambiguous for the time being.
I take a few of their writing choices to be crumbs to point to olicity being a very important relationship:

- Oliver's mortal lock conversation
- Since the dreamworld was sorta manifestation of all their thoughts, the dreamworld was sprinkled with dialogue from meaningful olicity moments throughout to make the world seem real to Oliver, with Smoak Tech lighting his way out - to me, showed that olicity is still prevalent in Oliver's mind.
- It's implied that both Oliver and Felicity had the penprosal flashback at the same time, which to me showed that they still have a very special, deep connection in present time despite being apart.

The importance of everything of course is up for interpretation, but I take these as little crumbs of hope that the writers want us to still remember olicity.

There's also 501 with Diggle asking Oliver about his relationship with Felicity and him leaving that question in the air, 502 when Felicity had her speech to him about "being in awe" of him, and other small moments that might not match with others but I still count (him promising to Felicity that he'll save Billy, that moment they had at the end of 504 when he said he didn't want to leave Diggle behind and before when he told her he didn't intend to lie to her, him telling Felicity he killed Billy).

It's starkly small because of how overt s4 was, but I still count them as well.