Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Artsda]

Love the promo. 

[grandemocha]

The preview had way too much Olicity for me. I didn't enjoy Chloe Sullivan/Clark Kent when Smallville had hints of that, and I don't enjoy it in a new version on Arrow. I hope this isn't a sign of where the show is heading in the 3rd season: prioritizing the ship that has the loudest fans over more hero stuff. I don't really care too much for Felicity, haven't since Season 2, so I'm more excited for the introduction of Brandon Routh on the show and seeing the new Thea. 

 

ETA: Also wonder how the hell Laurel is going to be in Season 3, but I guess it's a wait and see approach.

Edited July 26, 2014 by grandemocha

[Starfish35]

Hmmm, I feel like the episode being titled 'Oracle' does have something to do with Barbara Gordon. Maybe Felicity met a young Barbara Gordon at MIT and Barbara is the one who got Felicity into hacking in the first place? I don't know, but I think that would be a cool connection for the show to make if they ever decide to do a BoP spin off. A connection independent of Oliver's manbits. Sara and Helena both slept with Oliver while Felicity and Barbara are old college roommates or something.

I would like that a lot better than Felicity actually being called Oracle. Felicity gets enough flack from the comics crowd as it is - I can only imagine what the reaction would be to her taking Barbara Gordan's name.

How in the world do Oliver and Laurel end up as business partners? That....I can't get that to make sense any way I look at it. That would mean she'd have to buy into the company somehow right? Where would she get that kind of money? And what business does the DA (which I'm assuming she is) have being a partner in one of the city's largest employers? I don't have any legal training, so maybe I'm way off, but wouldn't that be somewhat of a conflict of interest (not that that's ever stopped this show before where Laurel's concerned).

Maybe it wasn't meant literally - maybe she's just referring to the "you catch them, I put them away" relationship they have now that AK talked about. That makes a little more sense than them actually being, legally, business partners.

[statsgirl]

i think Laurel means partners in the catching criminals sense.

 

Really good trailer. Giving the fans what they want, a brief history, lots of action, a hint of criminals, Oliver trying to protect Diggle, lots of Sara, Roy fighting, Hong Kong, Oliver smiling at Felicity and trying a date. Is he referring to himself for Felicity getting hurt when he yells "you have failed this city?" 

[pootlus]

Where would she get that kind of money?

Duh...blackmail :)

Maybe it wasn't meant literally - maybe she's just referring to the "you catch them, I put them away" relationship they have now that AK talked about. That makes a little more sense than them actually being, legally, business partners.

That's what I assume Laurel means.

Would love a Babs easter egg, which probably means it won't happen or it'll be so ham-fisted I'll wish it hadn't happened.

[wonderwall]

I'm the type of masochist who likes to go through the comment sections in articles... But looking at a lot of comment threads, it's funny that people still see Oliver/Felicity as a brother/sister type relationship and use the whole 'they're so forced' card even after we've been told that their feelings are genuine, after we've been told that the EPs are doing what feels natural, after 43 episodes of Oliver and Felicity building a solid foundation for a possible romantic relationship... :p Oh well

[VCRTracking]

I feel Felicity was loved by many(including myself) when she first appeared because she epitomized the type of girl that's always underappreciated(and a lot of female fans can related to that) but now she's too appreciated in the world of the show with everybody from Ollie to Quentin Lance thinking she's terrific. It's like what happened to Pam on The Office. People identified her in the beginning but once she finally got Jim it was like "Ugh she sucks!"

[wonderwall]

Well it would be weird if Oliver didn't appreciate Felicity because she's the one who saves him time and time again... And I think that Quentin appreciates Felicity because she's doing good in the world. Who wouldn't appreciate Felicity especially when she's one of the most down to earth women on the show? Felicity has every reason to be snotty, and condescending because she's a genius, but she's funny, sweet, and kind, and I think that's why everyone in the arrowverse appreciate her. But hey, I wouldn't mind seeing her fail once or twice throughout the season, it will make everyone see her as human. 

[abhi]

From Caity Lotz's twitter

"Hey guys I'm shooting in Vancouver so I'm missing the #SDCC #ArrowPanel but I'll be there tomorrow!"

 

Hmm does this mean that she would have been at the panel if she wasn't shooting. 

 

According to Canadagraphs and that Ken guy, Cassidy had left Vancouver a few days before, so wonder what kept her away from the panel unlike Emily and Caity.

Edited July 26, 2014 by abhi

[apinknightmare]

The preview had way too much Olicity for me. I didn't enjoy Chloe Sullivan/Clark Kent when Smallville had hints of that, and I don't enjoy it in a new version on Arrow. I hope this isn't a sign of where the show is heading in the 3rd season: prioritizing the ship that has the loudest fans over more hero stuff. I don't really care too much for Felicity, haven't since Season 2, so I'm more excited for the introduction of Brandon Routh on the show and seeing the new Thea. 

 

ETA: Also wonder how the hell Laurel is going to be in Season 3, but I guess it's a wait and see approach.

 

The promo had 80 seconds of new footage in it, and 10 seconds of that were Oliver and Felicity in a romantic capacity. Given all the hyping the EPs have done of this date, I don't think that's a lot, and I would hardly consider it 'prioritizing the ship.' They're bombarding us with Olicity info now because a) they seem to be really concerned about losing a portion of the audience who might still be smarting from that fake-out, and b) it's the safest info to give out, especially considering we know they never make it past that first date. People are asking about it, and they can give it away while keeping the vast majority of the season under wraps.

 

Look, I get people watch this show for different reasons, and that's cool. The people who are here for the action/comics stuff probably won't have as much tolerance for romance. Comics purists probably won't be here for Oliver and Felicity. People who don't like Felicity won't be here for Felicity. There's a lot of stuff going on in this show - not all of it is going to be for everybody. Personally, I tune out during the island flashbacks and almost everything pertaining to Laurel. I've posted before - I love O/F, no shame, so the romantic focus is never going to bother me (it didn't bother me with McKenna or Helena either - only Laurel), but for all that Olicity is a buzz monster media-wise, in the actual show? They have their beats, but it rarely takes more than a minute, MAYBE two of show time in any given episode. Out of 42 minutes, it ain't that bad. Granted, it does seem like it'll be ramping up a little bit this season, but I don't think it's anything to worry about.

[doesntworkonwood]

You may have seen these by now, but someone uploaded (most of) the Arrow Comic Con Panel on youtube.

 

Part 1-

 

 

Part 2-

 

 

Part 3-

 

 

Part 4-

 

 

Part 5-

[At Leisure]

I don't see how Oliver Felicity date disaster is about 'prioritizing a ship' and not about 'Oliver's hero journey'. Oliver taking Felicity on a date is his bid to make a first attempt at balancing his Arrow-self and 'himself' and the date turning into a disaster is his realization that it won't be as simple...that the price of being a hero is that things are never just handed out to you, that having a relationship will not be all lovely dates ending in tender kisses.

So the date is more about Oliver's 'Hero stuff' and less about 'the loud fans'. Much as the people rooting for Oliver and Felicity would like them to have a relationship, the EPs would never put anyone (Felicity) or anything (opinion of Loud fans) ahead of Oliver and his hero journey and man pain and what not.

The show's called Arrow for a reason and that reason has been evident in every episode so far.

Also I wonder why if Felicity is given something meatier its fan-pandering and when CL is brought back (after her very clear exit and handing out of the jacket in season 2) its the best thing in the world? No offense to CL or her fans...just wondering out loud here.

[tv echo]

Arrow Bosses Tease Felicity-Oliver Romance, New Issues in Season 3

Jul 25, 2014 10:13 PM ET - by Natalie Abrams

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Arrow-Season3-Tease-1084959.aspx

 

Article talks about Thea, Diggle, Quentin, the O/F date, and Roy (no mention of Laurel): 

First date: Ever since it was revealed that Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) and Oliver will go on a date in the Season 3 premiere, fans have been salivating for scoop on what that will entail. "They go for Italian," Guggenheim deadpanned. Executive producer Greg Berlanti promised that they'll deal with the feelings directly this season, noting that he believes they do have true feelings for each other. Unfortunately, Roy Palmer (Brandon Routh) has his eye on Felicity. "You got to do the love triangle," Guggenheim joked. Bonus scoop: The title of Felicity's backstory episode is called "Oracle."

 

Regarding the "Oracle" episode, remember the EP comments about how no one is their original superhero counterpart?  There's always at least two versions.  Maybe Felicity could be the first Oracle but later Barbara Gordon takes over as Oracle.  If so, then there'd have to be a tie between Felicity and Barbara (friend? relative?).  Or maybe Felicity's father was the first Oracle and Felicity is the second.  I just hope they don't paralyze Felicity.

Edited July 26, 2014 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

Re: the Con clips - I find it so endearing that some of them film the crowd when they walk out (and film themselves in front of the crowd). I cannot wait for Thea and Malcolm. Those two seem to really enjoy each other and that should translate well on screen. Is it October yet?

[KirkB]

If the business partners thing between Oliver and Laurel is to be taken literally, they may have gotten past the broke nonsense of last season and Oliver has helped Laurel open a law firm or something. Otherwise, yeah. it's probably an Arrow/DA thing.

 

The Felicity/Oracle connection. I don't know what kind of rules Arrow has to live under where other DC characters are concerned. Or what effect Gotham, being on a separate network, might have on name dropping Bat characters (btw Bat Embargo would make a great band name). But if they wanted to imply Felicity was involved with Barbara Gordan in any capacity in the past, they could probably get away with it by having Felicity look at a computer screen or a phonebook/caller ID type thing and see a very brief Gordon, B listing. Don't bring too much focus on it if she's not going to be involved in the show or anything but it would be a nice little easter egg for those in the know.

[MsSchadenfreude]

The trailer has made me excited for most of the stories for the show's third season.  Plus, it's always fun watching some new person kick Oliver's ass in the flashbacks. LOL

[poetgirl925]

You know, maybe it's a good thing that the panel was limited to these guys. I'd still like to have seen Caity and Emily there, and I still think it was a little dirty they didn't tell fans earlier about missing cast members (Emily and I guess KC was also confirmed?) expected to be there, but it was nice to see more focus on the other actors. I've never seen Willa Holland in anything else, but the way she handled herself in this panel made me like Thea more and her interactions with Barrowman make me even more curious about Malcolm and Thea. I feel like that might be a great storyline.

[wingster55]

Also I wonder why if Felicity is given something meatier its fan-pandering and when CL is brought back (after her very clear exit and handing out of the jacket in season 2) its the best thing in the world? No offense to CL or her fans...just wondering out loud here.

 

Felicity hasn't been given anything meatier...her moments are Olicity moments that in 2 seasons haven't gone anywhere. That's fan pandering imo. 

[abhi]

Maybe all the major announcements like the big bad of Season 3, Katana's story etc are reserved for the DC panel. Maybe DC asked them to not reveal too much during the panel so that the DC panel would be a real hit where all the shows would reveal their big points of the season?

Anyways, this panel was a major disappointment. 

[grandemocha]

 

Also I wonder why if Felicity is given something meatier its fan-pandering and when CL is brought back (after her very clear exit and handing out of the jacket in season 2) its the best thing in the world?

Certainly not the best thing in the world (to me). It's just that I personally see no difference between Felicity and how Chloe Sullivan was on Smallville. Audiences that watch the CW have proven time and time again that they LOVE the nerdy, shy girl who secretly lusts after the hot hero, because they relate to her and want to be her. It certainly doesn't hurt that the actress is gorgeous and gets to be around someone as hot as Oliver. But it doesn't work to me, and never has. At least the writers of Smallville eventually had enough sense to let Chloe move on with her life and find happiness elsewhere, I don't think that's going to happen here. The constant babbling from Felicity and awkward comments she makes is enough to make me roll my eyes often. She's been working with Diggle and Oliver for awhile now, so I wish they'd have the character dial down the awkwardness. It's like the show runners feel the need to insert Cute Olicity Scene #___ into every episode to keep certain parts of the audience watching. To me, it adds very little. 

 

Fact remains, Sara or Laurel (personally I liked Sara more) are going to be the Black Canary. That is straight from the comics, and I enjoy when the show sticks to including things like that. I love the fact that they're bringing in Brandon Routh as Ray Palmer, because I can relate to the comics and I enjoy seeing that. I'd love to see more Nyssa, or maybe more hints of Ra's Al Ghul.

Edited July 26, 2014 by grandemocha

[apinknightmare]

Felicity hasn't been given anything meatier...her moments are Olicity moments that in 2 seasons haven't gone anywhere. That's fan pandering imo. 

 

Ugh, there's the fan pandering again. Those moments haven't gone anywhere for HER (which is something that irritates me, but whatever). They are part of Oliver's journey though, based on the direction they're taking him this season. ETA: Actually, I'll argue that maybe they will go somewhere for her considering her relationship with Oliver is allegedly part of her arc this season too.

 

And I don't think the OP was insinuating that Felicity already had meaty parts, but that she'd be getting them this season with regards to her flashbacks and whatnot.

Edited July 26, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wingster55]

Re: Chloe...the comparisons were made between the two (her and Felicity) but Chloe had much more going on besides Clark from the start (she was also in the pilot). Additionally fans really wanted her and Clark together and while they failed to deliver on that..the time they took to get to the Vessel kiss was organic and pretty well done. 

 

They are part of Oliver's journey though, based on the direction they're taking him this season.

 

And if it leads somewhere for both...then it ceases to be "pandering" 

Edited July 26, 2014 by wingster55

[poetgirl925]

Felicity hasn't been given anything meatier...her moments are Olicity moments that in 2 seasons haven't gone anywhere. That's fan pandering imo.

They've taken longer to get to Felicity, but it appears that will change this season. She should get something 'meatier' just like the others because she's a series regular. I'm also going to have to argue that the Olicity moments are fan pandering since it appears they ARE going somewhere with it now. Maybe it'll work and maybe it won't but just because you don't like the journey doesn't make it pandering. I think if they had decided that she didn't fit into Oliver's journey we wouldn't be seeing it. By your logic the passing of that jacket at the end of S2 was unearned and pandering to Laurel fans, and even though I'm very familiar with BC in comics and did not like it, I called it foreshadowing instead. I could call their apparent insistence on turning Laurel into BC fan pandering to comic fans or Laurel fans, but I don't. I just admit I don't like it because I like Sara better and think she fits into the Arrow world better. I call it what it is - my opinion. Seriously, these fan pandering arguments are very annoying. You can call Olicity media pandering and I'll buy that because they use it to generate media buzz, but that's not the whole story. They laid groundwork for it in S2 and apparently it plays out in some way over S3 but I do not think for a second it will take over the show any more than Oliver and Laurel did in S1. I don't understand why people can't see they're using the Olicity teases to deflect focus from things they don't want to reveal yet. It's so obvious! They didn't answer a single important question during that panel, not when it comes to the biggies like BC and Thea and Malcolm.

[grandemocha]

 

Additionally fans really wanted her and Clark together and while they failed to deliver on that..

And I personally never did, as a fan of the show who watched all 10 seasons. I am so glad they didn't end it like that. Chloe and Clark separately were much better characters with their own individual love interests, than when they were together. I feel the same way here for Arrow. 

 

 

And if it leads somewhere for both...then it ceases to be "pandering"

And if it doesn't, it'll just be a bone the writers threw to the large amount of Olicity fans to keep them watching. Honestly, unless the ratings for the show seriously dip, I ultimately think they'll stick Oliver with Laurel (..unfortunately). I think they're fine deviating from canon on some things, but not the major ones. 

 

Anyways, I do look forward to seeing more flashbacks this season to see what happened to Oliver after he left the island and who he met.

Edited July 26, 2014 by grandemocha

[tv echo]

You may have seen these by now, but someone uploaded (most of) the Arrow Comic Con Panel on youtube.

Just finished watching these clips - thanks for the links!  Such a fun cast.  Odd that there were no fan questions or even mentions of KC or Laurel (except as part of Lance's daughters), considering that KC is the second name in the credits.

 

Again, can people please stop using the term "fan pandering"?!  It's just a way to insult other fans - and I thought that was prohibited on these boards:  http://forums.previously.tv/topic/8618-notes-from-the-mods-read-before-posting/#entry211379

You are free to snark, hate, love, worship, etc. and have whatever opinions you want regarding the show, and posting any of those opinions is fine. Not just fine, spectacular! We value all opinions equally. What you are not free to do is bash people (either individual posters or groups of fans) with opposing views.

Edited July 26, 2014 by tv echo

[wingster55]

By your logic the passing of that jacket at the end of S2 was unearned and pandering to Laurel fans, and even though I'm very familiar with BC in comics and did not like it, I called it foreshadowing instead.

 

I'd say it was both. Mostly the former. Especially as they don't seem to be building off it.

[abhi]

There is going to be an exclusive video presentation and discussion with the Arrow cast previewing the Season 3 at the WB and DC event. Maybe they will divulge the meatier aspects of Season 3 during this event.

[apinknightmare]

There seems to be a serious misconception here about what fan pandering is. People tend to throw the 'pandering' label on (on this show) shippy things they don't like. There's been a moment or two between Oliver and Felicity that have been legit pandering (like I wrote a few pages back, Oliver carrying Felicity after their car accident? THAT was fan pandering), but their relationship as a whole? It's not.

 

The writers get criticized when they stick with something that's not working (Laurel, in most instances), and they get criticized when they move a story in a direction that is working (IMO, Oliver and Felicity). Felicity was a one-off character, and the audience responded to her. She makes the show less dark, and she, along with Diggle, helps make Oliver a tolerable person at this point in his life. He brought her into his mission, and slowly over the past two years she's become a part of his life. Their chemistry is great (why anyone would think they have a sibling thing going on, I do not know), and the writers would be crazy not to explore it - not because the fans are clamoring for it, but because it's good story telling. When you stumble upon a gem, you dust it off and see what you can do with it. It's not like they're being thrown together to appease shippers - they've grown closer over TWO YEARS in what I believe is a very carefully handled build.

 

This whole show is about Oliver. Nearly everything in it is shown to further HIS journey (which is another thing I have issues with, making the female characters essential to the man's journey, but I've accepted it with this show). If him having feelings for/dating Felicity helps guide him through part of that journey? It's NOT pandering. It doesn't matter if they're endgame or not. From what the producers have said, this date is the first step in him figuring out if he can have a life outside of Arrow. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. If he can, maybe that life is with Felicity. Maybe it's (hold on while I choke down the vomit) with Laurel. Maybe it's with neither one, but it's part of his journey, and (wait for it...) NOT PANDERING.

 

ETA: Obviously I feel very strongly about this, haha

Edited July 26, 2014 by apinknightmare

[poetgirl925]

I'd say it was both. Mostly the former. Especially as they don't seem to be building off it.

But that's just it - we currently have no idea what they will or won't build off of in S3 when it comes to Sara and Laurel and the passing of the jacket and the questions surrounding the future of BC because they are being very quiet about it. If we get nothing at tonight's DC panel, I'm assuming we may not know until the season starts. Maybe they're saving these things for November sweeps - who knows.

[At Leisure]

Felicity hasn't been given anything meatier...her moments are Olicity moments that in 2 seasons haven't gone anywhere. That's fan pandering imo.

The reason why Felicity's moments haven't gone anywhere ( I argue that because her moments have gone somewhere called season 3 where she has a meatier role) is because she was a character mostly improvised through season 1 and then experimented with in season 2 a little to see where she could be taken.

She wasn't a character developed or thought out in advance therefore the EPs had to make her grow on screen. So far she has had no background story, no personal life and no character arc beyond Oliver. But her friendship with Diggle, Sara and her brilliance on the hacking front are not all Olicity moments. In fact I call all her time on,screen the Felicity moments cuz she manages to hold her own even in the presence of strong personalities like Oliver and Quentin Lance.

And whatever role (big or small) she is awarded in Season 3...I say she has earned it through her Felicity moments in seasons 1&2, which though not much were obviously enough to have made an impact on,both the audience and the writers. That's not pandering, it is as the EPs said...honouring.

[Sakura12]

If the jacket handoff was meant to be the beginning of Laurel's "hero" journey why didn't they just have Sara show up in her LOA outfit? (I am curious to see if it looks more like Nyssa's or Malcolm's). Otherwise they just made that scene pointless (which is mostly Laurel's role on this show) since Sara looks like she got a new jacket. 

 

As for fan pandering, they are actually pandering to all the fans right now. pandering to Olicity shippers, they are going on a date. Non-shippers, don't worry it won't last. Olicity shippers, they have genuine feelings for each other. Non-shippers we're bringing in another option for her.  Laurel fans pandering we're doing something with her. Sara fans, she's still dressed in her BC outfit. Basically we are not ready to commit to anything and we'll continue to tease everyone.

 

It's not the Moonlighting curse that ruins shows it's the continuous teasing that does. Will they/won't they is great for awhile but finding stupid reasons for them to be apart making both characters into giant tools turns into I don't want them together ever and people stop watching. 

Edited July 26, 2014 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

It's just that I personally see no difference between Felicity and how Chloe Sullivan was on Smallville. Audiences that watch the CW have proven time and time again that they LOVE the nerdy, shy girl who secretly lusts after the hot hero, because they relate to her and want to be her.

"Audiences that watch the CW"? Do you have other examples to back that up other than Arrow and Smallville? Because that's not what I'm seeing from the rest of the network. (Also, Smallville wasn't a CW show for the first five years - the CW didn't exist until Smallville's sixth season.)

I know people love to compare Felicity and Chloe, but the situations are not, IMO, that similar. There is a superficial similarity between them (blonde, good with computers, crush on main hero), but that's it. Chloe was a main character from the beginning. She was the Lois stand-in (Lois herself didn't even show up until season four). Felicity, however, was only intended to be an Easter egg for the comics fans, and EBR so impressed everyone (even before the fans had caught one glimpse of her) that they kept bringing her back, until finally making her a regular. She's not a stand-in for any other character. The Sara/Laurel situation IMO is far more comparable to the Chloe/Lois situation, with Sara as Chloe and Laurel as Lois. There too however, the comparisons are not exact. Laurel was there from the beginning, Lois didn't show up until season four. (And from a personal standpoint, I like Erica Durance a whole lot more than I do Katie Cassidy, but that's just me). I think the mistake being made, however, is similar. I have maintained over the years that it was a mistake to have both Lois and Chloe on the show at the same time, in anything more than the very rare guest appearance. And I think it was a mistake bringing Sara on if they still intended to make Laurel the Black Canary. I know at least for myself, I would have accepted (though not liked) Laurel as Black Canary before Sara, but not now.

Fact remains, Sara or Laurel (personally I liked Sara more) are going to be the Black Canary. That is straight from the comics, and I enjoy when the show sticks to including things like that.

What does that have to do with Felicity though? I don't think anyone's arguing that point, or saying that Felicity should be Black Canary. (Not seriously anyway)

As far as Olicity being compared to Chlark as far as how the writers are handling it? Ok, yes, I myself have feared that the writers are just teasing the audience with Olicity but not planning to follow through, much like what happened with Chlark. For a long time I was convinced that Olicity wouldn't ever amount to anything as long as Laurel was still on the show. However, I've changed my mind recently. Someone else earlier in the thread suggested that the writers have given up on Lauriver in exchange for still being allowed to make Laurel Black Canary. There were a lot of quotes during the second half of season two about making changes if something wasn't working, etc. At the time, I thought they meant Sara and Laurel. Now I think they were talking about Lauriver. I think the thinking right now is that the audience might accept Laurel better as BC if they stop pushing the Lauriver issue, and season three is the test run of that theory. And if they're not going to do Lauriver, well then, what else are they going to do? Unless you're saying they should do no romance at all?

Edited July 26, 2014 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

I've actually been kind of surprised by the amount of backlash Felicity and Oliver/Felicity have gotten since the EPs started pimpin' them out for the new season. I guess before people didn't see them as a real threat, but now that the show is taking them more seriously, a part of the fandom is starting to speak up? I mean, I think we all understand that if Felicity/Oliver get together, they stay together. So I've compiled a list of reasons why people are so put off by these developments:

1. They think that the show is fan pandering (I've think we've discussed this ad nauseam)
2. Oliver/Felicity are like brother/sister
3. Felicity turns into a pathetic puppy dog when she's mooning over Oliver
4. Felicity getting a larger arc and Oliver/Felicity feels too forced
5. Oliver/Felicity will ruin the dynamics of team arrow
6. More Oliver/Felicity = Less time for Diggle somehow
7. Fan pandering fan pandering fan pandering
8. It's not how it goes in the comics
9. Oliver/Felicity won't end well
10. People don't want Oliver to screw every woman on Arrow
11. Felicity is too good for Oliver

 

I honestly think that some of these reasons are ridiculous because we honestly don't know what will happen with regards to the shows dynamics so it's stupid to say that Oliver/Felicity will ruin the team dynamics or will get most of the screen time leaving less for Diggle or even foretell that they won't end up together... Romance has never been a main point for Arrow. What's most important is Oliver's growth towards becoming a hero and the steps he takes to get there so I don't get how it could take over the show. 

 

The other reasons (i find) are quite ridiculous except for the last one. Oliver/Felicity have never been portrayed as brother and sister because with all of the eye sex they have, it would be borderline incestuous. Even the actors/EPs have said that their's some sexual tension and pure love there, so I just find it interesting. My theory is that the people who say this don't actually have siblings. 

 

Felicity turning into a puppy dog in regards to Oliver is pure bullshit because she's not afraid to tell him what's what and kick his ass if necessary. While some of the scenes may have been forced between them throughout the middle part of the second half, I blame this on the Lance family drama taking most of the screen time away from Digg and Felicity who barely say more than one sentence in those episodes. Felicity is an independent woman who does what she wants, and the fact that she's going to date Ray Palmer just proves this statement to be wrong. 

 

While I agree that Felicity is too good for Oliver, I think that they make each other the best versions of themselves. Isn't that what a relationship should be like? While Oliver still has a lot of growing up to do, he will grow up (because if not, then what's the point of this show?), and then he'll be deserving of her. This is why I grade Oliver on a curve most of the time, it's because he still has a lot of growing up to do and I'm pretty sure we'll all have a front row seat to it. 

 

Anyways, those are my two cents. People should chill out and stop being angry about something that hasn't happened yet and possibly will never happen. This goes for Felicity and Laurel. I'm still hoping that the writers write her well this season. If not, then we'll see what happens :)

[poetgirl925]

And I think it was a mistake bringing Sara on if they still intended to make Laurel the Black Canary. I know at least for myself, I would have accepted (though not liked) Laurel before Sara, but not now.

This is really the issue. The regular viewers who don't read comics or care about comics seem to have responded well to Sara as Canary. Many people who have read BC stories, like me for example, also responded well to Sara as Canary. I don't think either Sara or Laurel are exactly like Dinah, but I like Sara better and I like her skills and the way she fits into the world of this show. And now that we have her, I resent the idea of letting her go to satisfy comic canon. I like comics but they've deviated so far from canon at this point that I no longer care about canon. I care about the characters and the story unfolding on my screen. My favorite characters like Diggle, Quentin, Sara, Felicity, Moira and now Thea aren't canon. If I want strict adherence to canon, I'll just go read the comics again. It's also funny that the biggest 'canon' and 'pandering' complaints are about Felicity or Sara. There's no Diggle connected to the Suicide Squad or ARGUS, but I love the Diggle angles. Thea looks like she might be on track to a Speedy-like character, and no one on this board is complaining because she's not Mia. Oliver never had a sister. Big canon deviation there. And I like it! Thea may have an interesting journey this season. (Actually he has a half sister in 52 canon - I forgot about that. There's never been a Thea Queen though, or Thea Merlyn, that was on track to be Speedy.)

They've spent a lot of time on Sara's character, so obviously the EPs like her and what she's brought to the show. They can continue to pull a lot of story from her and the League and use it to feed Oliver's journey. I don't think bringing her back is pandering so much as it's recognizing that a big portion of the audience likes her and that they're not done with her story. The only character Sara's return backfired on is Laurel and I have a hard time believing the producers didn't consider how bringing in Sara would, at the very least, significantly delay Laurel's journey. I think they wanted their Canary now and got excited about how it fit the story they wanted to tell and decided delaying Laurel's story was fine. They could have fast tracked Laurel before now and probably made her BC this season, and people would have accepted. Now if they fast track her a lot of people are going to hate it, so maybe they have to adjust story for Laurel again. Their emphasis on Canary versus Black Canary makes me wonder if they're not looking for a way to keep both in the end.

Edited July 26, 2014 by poetgirl925

[strikera0]

I'm curious what Sara's new mission is. There was a theory floating around that she was sent to recruit Oliver for the League, but I don't think she would have a heart-to-heart with him like the one in the trailer if that were the case. She could be in SC for Malcolm Merlyn, but I'm not sure if anyone but Thea is aware of him being alive that early in the season. Maybe the League sent her to SC for the mercenary that we got a casting call for. If my memory serves me right, he was supposed to appear in episode 2.

[Velocity23]

Well Ra knows Malcolm is alive, since Moira was happy to let him now. So it could be a mission to retrieve Malcolm. 

[JayKay]

I keep seeing the words "meaty parts" and all I can think about is Arrested Development now. @poetgirl925 makes a good point about Thea and Malcolm's story getting more time and consideration on the panel without the presence of EBR and CL, so at least that dark cloud has a silver lining. I love Holland & Barrowman's dynamic on the panel and from what John Barrowman has said previously about how Malcolm feels about Thea and what he wants for her, that could be an extremely enjoyable plot to watch play out.

 

I hope that Felicity doesn't become Oracle, but I could see her filling the role for Canary or something in an episode with a psychic villain as a fake-out title. Plus it would be cool to see Felicity and Sara working exclusively together for an episode. But who knows. I also don't want to have my hopes for an actual BoP series that includes Barbara Gordon as Oracle crushed.

She could be in SC for Malcolm Merlyn, but I'm not sure if anyone but Thea is aware of him being alive that early in the season.

 

Well Ra knows Malcolm is alive, since Moira was happy to let him now. So it could be a mission to retrieve Malcolm. 

I've been wondering about that too. If Ra's is still pissy that Malcolm escaped the League only to level part of a city, he might send Sara to investigate. They are the only two people to have been released, so it could be a loyalty mission for Sara to Ra's. The thing in the back of my mind that has me worried is that Sara could at some point clash with Team Arrow if she's after Malcolm, and Thea will be with him, so Oliver definitely wouldn't stand for assassins stalking baby sister. Sure, it could be awesome but I worry for how things would work out for Sara.

[strikera0]

Well Ra knows Malcolm is alive, since Moira was happy to let him now. So it could be a mission to retrieve Malcolm. 

 

Oh, you're right. I completely forgot that Moira told R'as about Malcolm. Then she might be there for something Malcolm-related after all.

[poetgirl925]

I think the only way they'd give Felicity the Oracle name is if they were told by DC that they couldn't have Barbara Gordon but they could use the Oracle name. Then it's a fun easter egg without having to be tied to every single aspect of Oracle. I highly doubt they would cripple Felicity to fit that name. People saying if she's Oracle she'll have to be in a wheelchair have a VERY narrow definition of who Oracle is in comics. It was a part of Barbara's journey but Felicity is already doing the computer related things - what would be the point besides unnecessary angst? They couldn't get Ted Kord for some reason, so instead we get DC's answer to Ant-Man. I'm sure they've been told no on other characters. The Bat embargo probably covers a lot of ground with future movies coming out and the Gotham show.

[dtissagirl]

"Oracle" as a codename might be available exactly because the nu52 reverted Barbara Gordon to Batgirl. So the Bat embargo may not apply right now, and there's a window of opportunity here that Arrow is taking advantage of. I do have reservations on account of my love for Babs-as-Oracle, but it's a pretty good business move to bring a codename that has so much meaning to so many fans to the show.

[poetgirl925]

Unless they manage to completely overhaul Laurel as a character and make her well received as Black Canary, I'm not sure we'll ever see a Birds of Prey spinoff anyway. I'm still cringing from their treatment of Huntress tbh. We'll see how they approach Katana. I definitely wouldn't want to see a BoP show without Babs, but since this is Arrow I'm more mellow about the potential reinterpretation of Oracle. Nearly everything on Arrow is a reinterpretation anyway.

[doesntworkonwood]

To be honest with you, I really don't think that there's any point wishing or hoping for a Birds of Prey/Black Canary spinoff.

 

I'm of the mind that there isn't really room for a Black Canary on Arrow, as from what I've read, she's such a big individual character, and a lot of her story line isn't actually connected to Oliver. She's a character that really deserves her own show, that is able to explore her character more thoroughly, in a way that isn't tied to Oliver Queen/The Arrow.

 

If Sara were to get her own show or be in a BOP spinoff, they'd have been able to explore more of her post Lian Yu, pre Starling City days, which would have been super interesting. I'd love to see how her relationship with the LOA and Nyssa developed, how she survived for the second time, her training. There is such a depth to Sara's character, but there isn't enough time to explore it on Arrow. And to be honest, I don't want to see it on Arrow. 

 

I started watching Arrow because of a gifset that contained Felicity. All I knew was that it was Oliver Queen's story, and because that's what I signed up for, that's what I want. I didn't sign up for Black Canary, so I don't want Black Canary. I think that I wouldn't have minded a Black Canary that was more of a background hero, but Sara's character has the depth and makings of a protagonist, and you can't have two protagonists on the same show. That's why I believe that Oliver should stay on Arrow, and Sara should get her own show (whether or not she stays as Black Canary).

 

However, as DC are the same people who refuse to make a Wonder Woman movie, despite her being the most iconic female superhero in existence (and certainly a more iconic superhero than Green Arrow and The Flash), I really doubt that they'd be willing to make a tv show about a female superhero who isn't as famous (despite Sara being really well received so far.

[Password]

Not to be rude or anything, but what exactly was it during the 2:30 minutes that showed too much Felicity or Olicity as it were? They were barely in the trailer. Sara was kicking all kinds of behind far more than there was Olicity. Fan pandering? Is my new favourite term if that was it.

 

On a lighter note I loved the light and bright score that played during the Olicity moments because it encompasses them as a couple.

 

Oh and I believe Laurel was in one scene? Erm I'll try not to read into that at all. It was only the first episode. I actually look forward to the Hong Kong flashbacks now. Telling Oliver he has no choice? Come on. This man needs all the encouragement he can get and now he has no choice!! For goodness sake flashbacks you're the reason for this snot and nonsense called "because of the life that I lead".

 

Oh and I fear for Felicity.

[doesntworkonwood]

I think that, considering the limited new footage, they really had no choice but to show Olicity (as a fan, that was great for me). I really don't think that the trailer is indicative of the season, especially as it only has footage from one (maybe two) episodes.

 

From the previous spoilers, we know that the date would play a large part in the episode, but that doesn't mean that Felicity and Oliver are going to go on dates every episode. From the trailer, there's a lot more to fit in to the show, Hong Kong, Arsenal, Diggle, The Count and (whilst it wasn't in the trailer) Merlyn and Thea. 

 

 

Oh and I fear for Felicity.

 

I'm actually really excited for her to get hurt, which is weird because she is without a doubt my favourite character. Both Diggle and Oliver have had Felicity tend to their wounds, I think it's about time that Felicity gets the treatment back. (Also, notice her lipstick when she's on the bench, not a smudge. Felicity Smoak is the Queen of bright lipstick.)

[twoods]

That trailer looks amazing. I love Felicity/Oliver but they were barely in the new trailer. Felicity all bloody freaks me out, but of course she's ok. Those Hong Kong flashbacks look great, especially since they have a different feel to the island ones and I like new scenery.

Fan pandering... Hate that term.

Edited July 26, 2014 by twoods

[apinknightmare]

I think that, considering the limited new footage, they really had no choice but to show Olicity (as a fan, that was great for me). I really don't think that the trailer is indicative of the season, especially as it only has footage from one (maybe two) episodes.

 

From the previous spoilers, we know that the date would play a large part in the episode, but that doesn't mean that Felicity and Oliver are going to go on dates every episode. From the trailer, there's a lot more to fit in to the show, Hong Kong, Arsenal, Diggle, The Count and (whilst it wasn't in the trailer) Merlyn and Thea. 

 

 

 

I'm actually really excited for her to get hurt, which is weird because she is without a doubt my favourite character. Both Diggle and Oliver have had Felicity tend to their wounds, I think it's about time that Felicity gets the treatment back. (Also, notice her lipstick when she's on the bench, not a smudge. Felicity Smoak is the Queen of bright lipstick.)

 

Just think, after she wakes up from that mess she's going to tell him she's been on worse dates. Smart, sweet, beautiful girl. <3

[Velocity23]

"Oliver has one woman this year. That woman is Felicity." - @amellywood

[Morrigan2575]

https://twitter.com/TVWatchtower/status/493137596252307456

Tiffany Vogt (@TVWatchtower) tweeted at 4:55 PM on Sat, Jul 26, 2014:Stephen Amell says there is only one girl for Oliver this point forward: Felicity. #Arrow #SDCC http://t.co/Mn4dRmXgTL

Edited July 26, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[calliope1975]

"Oliver has one woman this year. That woman is Felicity." - @amellywood

 

Wow, that's pretty bold. I'm all for it, but SA's usually pretty cagey about this stuff (as of, like, last night.) But I do note the "this year." Heh. Guess we'll see what happens. And I'm one of the ones who would like Olicity to get together sooner rather than later then keep at kicking bad guys' asses. I think it's entirely possible for Felicity and Oliver to be in a relationship without it causing unnecessary drama. I just don't know if the writers are capable. 

[Orion]

Just to add to what ArrowLimbo said about there being too much Olicity in the trailer.  

 

The trailer is 2 minutes and 29 seconds long.

Out of those 1 minute exactly is spent on clips from last season

Leaving 1 minute and 29 seconds of new content.

Felicity is in those scenes for 15 seconds (Not talking- just on screen- during the QC board meeting and when Ray Palmer makes his entrance)

8 of those 15 seconds could be considered an Olicity scene. (Oliver asking her out, date, and injuries)

In those scenes she has one line of dialogue. "Where were you?"  3 words and a head nod. That's it for her scenes

 

For comparison Sara is on screen for 9 seconds during which she is either fighting or talking. She has a cute tag line about the "We are not our masks and we need people in our lives who don't wear them" and "Don't look so surprised, I wasn't gone that long."

I just don't see where Olicity or Felicity took over that trailer?