S04.E05: Stop The World (And Let Me Off)

[TVForever]

Regarding Luke and Will and their working situation:

I think Luke is doing the best he can for Will given the industry they inhabit. It's been made clear that Luke likes Will, and even supported him when he first came out. Unfortunately, the realities of their world got the better of him. Pop music is "full" of gay singers and we hardly bat an eye anymore. Other areas of the industry aren't quite there yet. Country music and hip-hop come to mind- both genres where the masculine image is very tied to men being "manly men" and women being (mostly)

their accessories.

Luke's offering Will a way to still work in country music for now. The rest (being on stage again) will come in time. I really do believe that Luke's on his side, but they work in an image-driven industry, and there are some realities that come with that.

[madam magpie]

There doesn't necessarily NEED to be fallout, but in my opinion there was such blase emphasis on it that if it isn't brought back up at some point I'm failing to see the point of doing it at all.

Not that this show never brings something up once never to be heard of again, but still.

I hope it's never brought up again, but I don't think we'll be so lucky.

The American notion that there's some dramatic shift in emotional or brain maturity between sixteen and eighteen is just not true. There's very little difference. Maddie is no different in "adulthood" now than she will be in two years, and if we really want to set up our laws to reflect brain and emotional maturity, we'd need to push out the age of adulthood to twenty-five or something. (Dear god, America. Please don't!) Maddie is young and somewhat stupid and not allowed to grow up on this show. That her mother feels the same way is believable, but just because Rayna thinks something doesn't make it true. You cannot stop a sixteen-year-old from having sex or playing music just by ordering it to happen. Tami Taylor knew this. Talk to her, Rayna!

I don't care at all that Maddie had sex. If I were her mother, I'd wish she hadn't and would want to talk to her about it, but I'm not so oh well. I did find it funny, though, that on Twitter, Lennon Stella's real mother was jokingly horrified and didn't want to watch it. That's about all I liked related to Maddie having sex. I thought Lennon sounded great, though, and wish like the poster above that she'd just be allowed to perform...for my benefit, if nothing else.

Also, Rayna is so dumb. Of course Maddie thinks Juliette is cool and awesome. They have a completely different relationship than Juliette has with anyone else. Maddie doesn't see or get any of the bad stuff Juliette does or deals with because Rayna treats Maddie like she's five and can't be expected to understand what's really going on. Rayna wants Maddie to be simultaneously mature enough to see why Juliette's life is destructive but too young to have or see the experiences that would give her that maturity. That will do nothing but make Maddie push back harder.

As for Will, I think that if he's a good songwriter, he should go for that. If Luke wants to hire him to write songs, he should go for that too. If he wants to be a poster boy for coming out and gay artists, that's OK too, but so far he doesn't. And I sort of like that approach because it's common in real life but uncommon on TV. He doesn't owe anything to anyone just by living his life, and yeah, maybe superstardom as a country performer will elude him because he came out. Maybe it won't. But in the meantime, you can make a lot of money as a songwriter.

Edited October 22, 2015 by madam magpie

[DearEvette]

Way too much Layla time this episode. And too much Jeff. Hooray for Luke vetoing him.

And Luke's lawyer/PR person needs to go too. Maybe she can babysit Maddie and Colt?

 

 

I like Layla.  I didn't in the beginning, but I like her storyline trajectory.  I think it is interesting to see how this girl who won an American Idol type show feels like she is gonna be the next big thing only to kinda have her dreams ground away  bit by bit.  One thing I think the show did well in Season 1 but has let fall away as it mired itself into soap suds is the concentration on all the different levels of success in the business.  You had Juliette as the brash pop country mega success, Rayna as the Queen who was quietly struggling to stay relevant, Deacon as the respected guy behind the throne who nevertheless had no real name recognition outside of the country music industry, and then you had all the scrappy hungry up-n-comers: Avery, Gunnar, Scarlett.  Now it just seems like everyone is very industry.  And the show doesn't seem to be as interested in exploring the other aspects on the business.  I think Layla's story feels like the closest to that.

 

And I also like the PR person.  Again another aspect of the business side of the music industry.  She has a sharkiness about her that appeals.  You always have guys like Jeff and Lamar but it is nice to see a woman being a little on the no-nonsense business side.  Also she seems like a more hard-core version on Tandy.  And she makes Luke somewhat interesting.  I hope she sticks because the one thing this show does not seem to know how to do is integrate smaller characters into the overall story.  They feel disposable all the time and it is a shame because there is only so much drama you can mine just from the same group of characters all the time.

 

 

Also, I still see nothing wrong with Maddie's dress.

 

 

TBH, i just  thought it was kinda ugly.  Then again, I don't think nude netting belongs anywhere outside of a skating rink.

[Ely]

Avery figures hey, Juliette has already broken my heart. I won't let her do the same to our innocent child.

 

Yes, Avery speaks from a broken heart but there are wiser ways to go about a divorce and/or custody issues. He seemed overly harsh for drama's sake. Through the episode there were signs that Juliette reached out to him and wanted to at least talk when she tried to reach him and Emily. Plus, Emily already had the feeling that Juliette was coming to her senses. So keeping all that in mind, I have a hard time not to see Avery's actions as anything else that a contrived plot point.

 

Watching HP going through this tour-de-force storyline is giving me such a bad feeling knowing that she's not well in real life.

 

I loved Will's little "That's *my* song". I think that was the kick in the ass he needed to come out of the woodwork. That being said, he should sell that song to Luke so Kevin can make some money from it and Will can start rebuilding his career. Preferably under Rayana's label - but I'm giving that a few episodes.

 

Layla's voice and singing has become so unnatural and overdrawn, my cat's a better singer than her and she sounds like a door creaking. On good days.

[Clemgo3165]

 

Yes, Avery speaks from a broken heart but there are wiser ways to go about a divorce and/or custody issues. He seemed overly harsh for drama's sake. Through the episode there were signs that Juliette reached out to him and wanted to at least talk when she tried to reach him and Emily. Plus, Emily already had the feeling that Juliette was coming to her senses. So keeping all that in mind, I have a hard time not to see Avery's actions as anything else that a contrived plot point.

 

I thought Avery was spot on there honestly. It may seem cruel, but Juliette just came back to him a couple of episodes ago and then changed her phone number and left again, why should he think that this time would be different? And hearing that she was too drugged up to answer clearly when he called about Cadence didn't help matters with him. He sees her as not wanting to be involved in their daughter's life and is giving her a way out that allows her to have what she presumably wants (no kids, no ties, no family demands) and still save face with the public. It's harsh, but then her actions have been harsh too.

[madam magpie]

Yes, Avery speaks from a broken heart but there are wiser ways to go about a divorce and/or custody issues. He seemed overly harsh for drama's sake.

I actually think his being overly harsh was believable. People do and say all kinds of nasty, ridiculous things during a breakup. Demanding that Juliette give up her parental rights is ridiculous and mean (to both her and Cadence), but that's the stage he's in right now. Going on about the baby almost dying was a melodramatic overreaction, but he's blinded by hurt and anger. Hopefully he'll come around.

[Primetimer]

While Deacon and Scarlett clean out Beverly's house and stay out of each other's way...for a while, Juliette fails at parenting both her own child, and one of Rayna's.

Read the story

[Pop Tart]

In terms of Maddie's performing with Juliette, I get both sides. Maddie's belief that it's no big deal and Rayna's conviction that it is both make sense for who the characters are. For all that her parentage is a bit of a soap opera, Maddie is very sheltered and to perform in front of 20,000 people opens her up to all sorts of things that she doesn't have much clue about. But she's sheltered because Rayna has kept her that way, so while Rayna is right that Maddie doesn't fully get it, there's a reason for that and Rayna needs to do more to help her get there.

 

The thing last night that proved how immature Maddie still is, was her throwaway comment about Deacon. Wolf (is that his name?) asked her what happened when she went to check on Deacon (when she saw him trashing his house) or something like that and Maddie said "sometimes you find out people aren't who you thought they were" or words to that effect. That she can only see Deacon's agony in terms of herself and how it affects her proves the immaturity to me. It's not, oh he's in a bad place because his sister just died after giving him a kidney, it's he's not who I thought he was (in a sneering tone).

[LittleGreyCells]

I may be alone in thinking this but Claire Bowen is getting less tolerable with every passing episode. She's a terrible actor, her extensions looks like something my cat routinely throws up, and she talks like she has a mouth full of paper clips. She's a great singer - I love her performances with Gunnar - but that's it.

[thaliasghost]

Nashville is my favorite unintentional comedy on earth. The hour goes so fast, unlike other shows I watch. The weak ratings make me so sad!

I love how Layla is slowly becoming Jefffordham's weakness. (does he have a last name? ;-))

 

Is she? That was the original idea for their relationship (the whole contrived Teddy saying to Jeff that he has nothing and nobody he cares about) and what I thought was going to be so interesting about them. They imagine Jeff as this epitome of evil. The guy who hooks up with Juliette to use his personal one night stand to immediately blackmail her with it. Finally, he has one vulnerable point and something to lose. I thought Layla was the perfect fit. Juliette was too tough and too much like Jeff and Scarlett was too good and innocent (back when Layla had a little calculated mean streak that seems to have evaporated).

But in this episode they made it pretty clear that Jeff is back to dropping Layla the moment she isn't useful anymore.

[TVForever]

I may be alone in thinking this but Claire Bowen is getting less tolerable with every passing episode. She's a terrible actor, her extensions looks like something my cat routinely throws up, and she talks like she has a mouth full of paper clips. She's a great singer - I love her performances with Gunnar - but that's it.

       

        Trust me, LittleGrey, you are not alone. In fact, I've been there for a while already.

[TWP]

I think Jeff thinks he can screw Layla over, but when he does and she leaves, he'll be running after her. For me there's a super deep underlying current of that. Maybe I'm imagining it because I want it so badly.

[Clemgo3165]

I hope it's never brought up again, but I don't think we'll be so lucky.

The American notion that there's some dramatic shift in emotional or brain maturity between sixteen and eighteen is just not true. There's very little difference. Maddie is no different in "adulthood" now than she will be in two years, and if we really want to set up our laws to reflect brain and emotional maturity, we'd need to push out the age of adulthood to twenty-five or something. (Dear god, America. Please don't!) Maddie is young and somewhat stupid and not allowed to grow up on this show. That her mother feels the same way is believable, but just because Rayna thinks something doesn't make it true. You cannot stop a sixteen-year-old from having sex or playing music just by ordering it to happen. Tami Taylor knew this. Talk to her, Rayna!

I don't care at all that Maddie had sex. If I were her mother, I'd wish she hadn't and would want to talk to her about it, but I'm not so oh well. I did find it funny, though, that on Twitter, Lennon Stella's real mother was jokingly horrified and didn't want to watch it. That's about all I liked related to Maddie having sex. I thought Lennon sounded great, though, and wish like the poster above that she'd just be allowed to perform...for my benefit, if nothing else.

Also, Rayna is so dumb. Of course Maddie thinks Juliette is cool and awesome. They have a completely different relationship than Juliette has with anyone else. Maddie doesn't see or get any of the bad stuff Juliette does or deals with because Rayna treats Maddie like she's five and can't be expected to understand what's really going on. Rayna wants Maddie to be simultaneously mature enough to see why Juliette's life is destructive but too young to have or see the experiences that would give her that maturity. That will do nothing but make Maddie push back harder.

As for Will, I think that if he's a good songwriter, he should go for that. If Luke wants to hire him to write songs, he should go for that too. If he wants to be a poster boy for coming out and gay artists, that's OK too, but so far he doesn't. And I sort of like that approach because it's common in real life but uncommon on TV. He doesn't owe anything to anyone just by living his life, and yeah, maybe superstardom as a country performer will elude him because he came out. Maybe it won't. But in the meantime, you can make a lot of money as a songwriter.

 

For me this is the answer and the problem all at the same time. Rayna's failing to see Maddie as the 16-year-old with a dream that she was at the same age and is trying to control her actions to protect her from the hardships she suffered, failing to see that that will leave her totally unprepared to make it on her own. But then Maddie doesn't do herself any favors by not behaving like she's actually 16. Most kids that age are able to have reasonable, civil, and open conversations with their parents about what it is they want out of life. Maddie doesn't seem to be able to do that. I'd love for there to be a talk with Maddie, Rayna, and Deacon where her parents are honest about what they went through getting started, the pitfalls of early stardom (i.e. Juliette), and some strategizing to get Maddie where she wants to be.

 

I'd love to see Maddie do more performing as well, but I'd rather she start out slowly - at the Bluebird or other smaller venues - let her get her feet wet, test out her sound, and see what might be out there for her. And I'd love to see her parents guiding her through it.

 

As for Will, it seemed pretty clear last night that he wants to be a performer, not "just" a songwriter (and Kevin should have smacked him good for that comment). If that's what he wants then he should go for it. But he's going to have to accept that it's not going to be easy no matter how good he is and that he's going to be answering the sexuality question for a while.

[Lila82]

Luke has his face on barbecue sauce - doesn't he already have a lifestyle brand?

 

For a supposedly sensitive, self-aware dude, Kevin is completely tone deaf when it comes to Will's feelings.  Being a songwriter is enough for him, but he was standing right there when Will lost his dream.  Of course Will's going to be devastated and grappling with the turn his life took.  Ease up, Kev.

 

I am SHOCKED the writers remembered Will and Gunnar's doomed kiss.  

 

Rayna is totally in the right for being furious with Maddie.  Draconian or not (I personally believe not), it's her kid and her rules.  Both Juliette and Luke know this.  I'm with Rayna all the way.  ETA: teenagers are capable of calm, rational conversation, but the James/Conrad women struggle with basic communication skills.   We'll know if it's resolved next week when Rayna/Maddie write a song about their feelings.

 

I think Jeff thinks he can screw Layla over, but when he does and she leaves, he'll be running after her. For me there's a super deep underlying current of that. Maybe I'm imagining it because I want it so badly.

 

It's what he did when he was fired from Edgehill, so I also foresee him chasing her again.  Much like Layla, I'm rooting for them and I don't know why.  Good acting?  I never thought I'd say that about Oliver Hudson and NotGem.

 

also have zero problem with Maddie and Colt getting it on. I guess it kinda stems a little from me being Swedish and us over here having very relaxed views on premarital and casual sex, the age of consent only being fifteen and me having lost my virginity at a relatively young age with no ill effects. Them sleeping together after they've dated for months really didn't feel either rushed or reckless.

 

In theory, I don't have a problem with Maddie/Colt having sex, but I think we're supposed to believe it was more of a reaction to Deacon's temper tantrum and her stage high than actually being ready.  When she comes down and stands in front of her bathroom mirror, wearing pjs and face scrubbed of makeup like all tv virginity losers, she might feel differently.  I guess that's my concern?  I do think a sixteen year old in a committed relationship can be ready for sex, but not this girl, especially given the turmoil in her life over the past year.  That said, no matter how Maddie feels the next day, she was with a boy she loves and loves her in return, and it could be worse.  Like pregnancy.  Dear lord, do not let us go down that road.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Lila82

[madam magpie]

Rayna is totally in the right for being furious with Maddie. Draconian or not (I personally believe not), it's her rules and her kid. Both Juliette and Will know this. I'm with Rayna all the way.

I think this is one big reason a lot of kids struggle and get into trouble as teens. Maddie is an autonomous human being, not a possession of Rayna's. Luke and Juliette should definitely respect Rayna's rules for her kid, but Rayna should also be respecting the wishes of her kid. Maddie is old enough to know who she is and what she wants, even if she lacks the skills and maturity to accomplish it. I think Rayna should be teaching the latter, not demanding things she'll never get. One of my favorite moments on Friday Night Lights is when Tami screams at Bratty Julie, "You are fifteen years old! You're not allowed to have sex!" As though that's something a parent can forbid. The irony was clear on that show because its writers got subtlety. On this show, Rayna lacks any nuance in dealing with her daughter, so to me, the entire exchange just looked ridiculous. Good luck with being so controlling, Ray! (I realize Rayna is talking about performing and doesn't know about the sex, but it comes from the same place: the desire to forbid your child from growing up.)

Clemgo: I agree about Will, but turning down songwriting gigs or dissing songwriters because you want to be a star is counterproductive, I think. Why choose? Why does being a star always have to be the measure of success? Make money, man. Money is freedom.

Edited October 22, 2015 by madam magpie

[Shellie]

Clemgo: I agree about Will, but turning down songwriting gigs or dissing songwriters because you want to be a star is counterproductive, I think. Why choose? Why does being a star always have to be the measure of success? Make money, man. Money is freedom.

 

As MizStaken also said on the previous page, there's nothing wrong with being a songwriter.  I would think someone like Will would totally understand this.  It makes me think of Bryan Adams, who was a successful songwriter before he was a star, and has continued being a successful songwriter for other artists. . . there are dozens of recordings of songs he never recorded himself.

 

I imagine there are many other singers who became mega-stars and have similar stories.

 

https://www.acc.umu.se/~robert/write.html

[wendyg]

The tennis writer Peter Bodo once commented with respect to the women's tennis association's then-new age eligibility rules that "No one ever went to Wimbledon and had a bad time. Not even Jennifer Capriati." Capriati began playing top-tier tennis when was about to turn 14 and burned out by the time she was 18, later to come back to achieve some of the success originally predicted for her. Which is all leading up to my thinking that doing one song with a top star on one occasion in a full stadium is not that big a deal - as long as you are smart enough to expertly handle (and generally turn down) the offers and buzz that follow. Janis Ian had a huge hit at Lennon Stella's sort of age with "Nobody's Child". Pam Shriver played the final of the US Open.

 

truebluesmoky: I can't imagine that Pannettiere, as one of the two top leads of the show, wasn't consulted about her storyline or couldn't have gone to the showrunners to ask them to tone it down if it cut too close to the bone. She may find it therapeutic as a way of working through her own troubles, we don't know.  I would assume she's consented.

[rachel1496]

How this show went to one of my favourites to being completely gross I'll never know but here we are.

Do the writers know why women often don't seek treatment for PPD? Why many of them will deny that they even have anything resembling PPD? A lot of times it's because they're scared. They're scared they'll be branded bad mothers, they're scared that they might actually BE bad mothers, they're scared of having their children taken away. So this show decides to give a main character PPD, have pretty much every other character mention it at least once so we all know Juilette has PPD and then turn her into a complete mess. And to top it off we get a whole episode of people telling Juliette that she's a shit mom who abandoned her kid followed up by her husband telling her that her current mental state means she will never be a reliable parent and her daughter is better off without her. WTG writers room, you just took every deep dark fear a PPD mom might have and threw it all up on screen. Awesome.

If they wanted to make Juliette a bad mom then they should have made her a bad mom. Leave PPD out of it.

[TVForever]

I'm sure Will's brain knows that he can have a great career as a songwriter; it's just that his heart hasn't given up on the dream of being the performer up on stage yet.

[Soup333]

I love CB's face. She's the only thing that made those Layla scenes bearable.

 

Couldn't help but think that Will's song would have been so much better coming out of Will's mouth.

 

Bumbling Gunnar was adorable. I wish we could keep him, but whenever he's in close proximity to Scarlett he turns into Stalker Gunnar.

 

I wish Rayna would sit down and talk to Maddie about what she's so afraid of. I know others have said it too, but Rayna is a freaking label head now with 20+ years in the business. Maddie could learn so much from her but they never seem to have a real conversation about it. It's just, "I know best. You're not ready." Well, when, in Rayna's eyes, is she going to be ready? "Wait until you're older" means when? 

 

I also thought the brouhaha about the song with Juliette was a bit much. Damn. She's not going to be opening for the girl for the rest of the tour. Juliette doesn't know that Maddie has been expressly forbidden from performing anywhere except at her high school or with her mother. Maddie could have said, "I can't, my mom wouldn't like it." But she didn't. I thought Luke's comment to Juliette about playing the "fun mom" was unnecessarily cruel.

 

Speaking of Luke, I don't give the teeniest of damns about his romantic life with whatever that chick's name is. She's just as boring as Dr. Dull/boring vet girlfriend of Deacon's/boring lawyer girlfriend of Deacon's. 

 

Is Jeff less slimy than before? Wait - no. He's still an ass. If he gets that CEO position, he'll leave Layla and Juliette managerless in a heartbeat. 

 

Avery. My dear sweet Avery. I know his anger about the Marcus situation was fueling his anger towards Juliette, but demanding she sign away her parental rights is harsh. Very. I fault the writing for this because he knows his wife is sick. He said so last week and will do so next week, but he didn't mention that at all in his conversation with her. Not in a, "I'll won't file if you get help," kind of way because that type of ultimatum would be ridiculous. But she was receptive to him at that moment and if he'd responded to her saying she was making changes by mentioning her PPD and getting help for it, that might have made a difference. 

 

I'm not sure why Emily wouldn't respond to her. I know she doesn't want to be in the middle of Avery/Juliette's marriage, but she and Juliette had a relationship before him. If she truly believes that Juliette might be ready to "come home" then - not even a text?

[Clemgo3165]

Clemgo: I agree about Will, but turning down songwriting gigs or dissing songwriters because you want to be a star is counterproductive, I think. Why choose? Why does being a star always have to be the measure of success? Make money, man. Money is freedom.

 

I don't think it does. I consider Deacon a huge success even though he's not a star. But I do think that that's how Will sees it.

 

If it were me, I'd be pulling out my pen to sign the paperwork - let Luke take that song to the top and buy a nice new house with the rewards. But it doesn't seem that Will sees it that way. It looks like he sees it as giving up on his dream, the song is his, not Luke's. And if that's what he thinks I don't see why at this point he should sell the song. You can't sit around waiting for a better time to come along to try to make it as a performer, at least at this point he's still well known and as we saw last night there are a decent number of people who'd have his back. I say go for it.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Demanding that Juliette give up her parental rights is ridiculous and mean (to both her and Cadence), but that's the stage he's in right now. Going on about the baby almost dying was a melodramatic overreaction, but he's blinded by hurt and anger. Hopefully he'll come around.

Juliette has barely spent a second with her daughter since she was born and was not available at the most serious point in the child's life. And she's self-destructive on top of that.  Avery's reaction makes sense. It's not like Cadence has bonded in any way with her mother. It's easier to cut the ties now rather than to hope things will change and then mop up a big mess in 15 years when that didn't turn out to be the case.

[Clemgo3165]

The thing last night that proved how immature Maddie still is, was her throwaway comment about Deacon. Wolf (is that his name?) asked her what happened when she went to check on Deacon (when she saw him trashing his house) or something like that and Maddie said "sometimes you find out people aren't who you thought they were" or words to that effect. That she can only see Deacon's agony in terms of herself and how it affects her proves the immaturity to me. It's not, oh he's in a bad place because his sister just died after giving him a kidney, it's he's not who I thought he was (in a sneering tone).

 

Colt is his name ;) 

 

I had an issue with her reaction last week and it continues this week. I can completely understand her being freaked out but what she saw, that'd be scary for anyone I think. But what I don't get is why she's not at all concerned about him. She knows he's an alcoholic, she knows he just lost his sister in one of the worst possible ways, and she knows that he's still recovering from a liver transplant, so why didn't she at least stop to call her Mom and let her know what was going on? Go out to the car and make the call if you're that afraid of what's happening in the house, but at least hang out until your Mom gets there to make sure he hasn't hurt himself. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by Clemgo3165

[Bort]

Juliette doesn't know that Maddie has been expressly forbidden from performing anywhere except at her high school or with her mother. Maddie could have said, "I can't, my mom wouldn't like it." But she didn't. I thought Luke's comment to Juliette about playing the "fun mom" was unnecessarily cruel.

Juliette knows full well what Rayna's policy on Maddie performing is. Which is why I don't think Luke's "cool mom" comment was really out of line.

[madam magpie]

Juliette has barely spent a second with her daughter since she was born and was not available at the most serious point in the child's life. And she's self-destructive on top of that. Avery's reaction makes sense. It's not like Cadence has bonded in any way with her mother. It's easier to cut the ties now rather than to hope things will change and then mop up a big mess in 15 years when that didn't turn out to be the case.

I think many child development experts would disagree with you. The long-term effects on Cadence will be huge, either way, and growing up knowing (or finding out later) that the reason she has no mother is because her father cut her out will be detrimental. The goal should be to rehabilitate Juliette, not cut her off from her kid. Avery is reacting the way he is because he's hurt and angry. That's understandable, but it's not what's best for Cadence. I expect he'll come around, though, because Avery's ultimate goal really is to do what's best for their daughter, and he's pretty compassionate.

Clemgo: I agree about Maddie, and continue to find it unbelievable that she didn't go to her mother.

Re: Will. I hear you, but I wish someone had told him he was being dumb. And insulting!

Edited October 22, 2015 by madam magpie

[Gella]

Juliet did spend time with Cadence when the baby was first born and Avery concentrated on his band until she felt trapped and changed, and tried to hire a babysitter and Avery flipped out. Instead of realising that his wife was a very successful artist and would need a transition into motherhood/career from just a career Avery tried to make sure she was just a mom. Which probably contributed to her PPD. So she rebelled and went off the rails and now he wants to terminate her parental rights. Nice move.

Having a professional singing career is no walk in the park. And I can understand why Rayna is holding back the reins on her daughters' exposure. Maddy is young and immature and still in school. She should remain there with additional controlled exposure until she is of age. She is no independent artist. She is feeding off her talent but also her pedigree. So it's right that Rayna sets the terms of how that proceeds.

[Julie23]

Will, Kevin & Gunnar. Love the "get Gunnar laid" mission. Totally understand Will's reaction. He used to be up on that stage, getting all the cheers and attention and he is not ready to give that up. Kevin does not understand because he has always been a writer.

 

I can't decide if Luke is being shitty to Will to sing his song when he wasn't willing to have him on his label, or trying to make up for being as ass by cutting him from his label. 

 

I agree with Will and Rayna. A 16-yr-old is not an adult, no matter what they might think. Parents and adult guardians are in charge. Maddie is delusional if she thinks she could be emancipated like Juliette and take care of herself,. Juliette had a much different upbringing and was basically taking care of herself her whole life, so being on her own was not that different. Maddie has been coddled and pampered and need I add spoiled, her whole life. She could not take care of herself walking down the street much less in the music industry. Will was right to yell at Juliette, and I totally loved his comment about being a good mom to other people's kids when she has barely seen her own kid. Truth hurts sometimes. And of course, true soap opera trope, she comes to her senses just as Avery has had enough. 

 

Scarlet finally told Deacon he was being a selfish ass, and luckily he heard her. Hope this Bev story line can end now. St. Bev was a horrible person in life and bores me in death.

 

Layla. Generally I like her music, but that song was ...too slow or sad or something. Just wasn't feeling it. 

 

Second week in a row I am saying this: Markus is an ass. 

[Soup333]

Juliette knows full well what Rayna's policy on Maddie performing is. Which is why I don't think Luke's "cool mom" comment was really out of line.

 

She knows this how? Am I missing something? Is there a scene anywhere in the last two seasons where Rayna specifically says to Juliette that she doesn't want Maddie to ever perform anywhere with anyone? How would Juliette know that Rayna wasn't just opposed to Maddie having a record deal? 

 

 

I think many child development experts would disagree with you. The long-term effects on Cadence will be huge, either way, and growing up knowing (or finding out later) that the reason she has no mother is because her father cut her out will be detrimental. The goal should be to rehabilitate Juliette, not cut her off from her kid. Avery is reacting the way he is because he's hurt and angry. That's understandable, but it's not what's best for Cadence. I expect he'll come around, though, because Avery's ultimate goal really is to do what's best for their daughter, and he's pretty compassionate.

 

Before Marcus snatched the phone out of his hand, the lawyer mentioned mediation to Avery. That would be a much better thing to do than just terminate her rights at this stage. 

[thaliasghost]

I'm expecting Jeff to get that CEO job and drop Juliette and Layla, who can both be managed by Glenn. I wouldn't miss him. He's being kind of nice to Layla now, but that doesn't excuse all of the horrible, manipulative stuff he did in the past (to her and others).

Very true. I can't believe how they made him get away with all that including the "contract" that Rayna is aware of. Didn't she think that was worth a question? Or if they were already were involved with each other when she overdosed and almost drowned in his pool (with 19 or 20?)? Her "he's always kind to me" ....maybe she misspoke and meant cruel.

I also have to say, I don't understand why they choose to dress Layla hideously and why they are giving her the Scarlett hair treatment.

Reality-wise, the reason why Jeff might not be considered for the position was such a non-reason. Cross-marketing clients is what a manager should do. Mostly, when one artist starts to inexplicably champion another or collaborate, it turns out they are with the same management agency. So why is using Juliette's events to garner Layla publicity is a bad thing and against the rules. Can somebody explain?

[thaliasghost]

I think Jeff thinks he can screw Layla over, but when he does and she leaves, he'll be running after her. For me there's a super deep underlying current of that. Maybe I'm imagining it because I want it so badly.

In an interview Peebels said that we will see "how much Jeff truly cares about Layla" which can be interpreted both ways. It could be - as somebody else said - they just set it up predictingly this way to turn it around next episode. The stills for the next episode somehow suggest both: that he dropped Layla as a client and works for Luke and that he's still with Layla.

 

Speaking of Layla needing a manager: where the hell is Glenn?

[Soup333]

In an interview Peebels said that we will see "how much Jeff truly cares about Layla" which can be interpreted both ways. It could be - as somebody else said - they just set it up predictingly this way to turn it around next episode. The stills for the next episode somehow suggest both: that he dropped Layla as a client and works for Luke and that he's still with Layla.

 

Speaking of Layla needing a manager: where the hell is Glenn?

 

Seeing Layla and Glenn in the same sentence hurts my soul.

 

Totally unrelated but, it was kind of messed up how Avery up and went to ATLANTA without telling Emily where he was going. I know she offered to babysit but she had already been there all day with a baby that wasn't feeling very well. Would have been nice of him to give her a heads up that he was leaving the STATE.

[Clemgo3165]

Re: Will. I hear you, but I wish someone had told him he was being dumb. And insulting!

 

Yep. Kevin should have smacked him for that comment. It takes talent to be a successful songwriter and is no less valuable than the person performing the song.

Totally unrelated but, it was kind of messed up how Avery up and went to ATLANTA without telling Emily where he was going. I know she offered to babysit but she had already been there all day with a baby that wasn't feeling very well. Would have been nice of him to give her a heads up that he was leaving the STATE.

 

Yes, this, very much. He should have at least told her where he was going and not made assumptions that she could stay for however long he was gone. It was rude.

[TWP]

JeffFordham is Sheldon and Layla is Sheldon'sMother...or at least I hope (Big Bang Theory reference, if you don't know.).  He'll run back to her over and over again, if I have any influence... ahem.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When she comes down and stands in front of her bathroom mirror, wearing pjs and face scrubbed of makeup like all tv virginity losers, she might feel differently.

Ha, so true! Are teenage girls on tv ever allowed to contemplate losing their virginity/"becoming a woman" differently?

[Bort]

She knows this how? Am I missing something? Is there a scene anywhere in the last two seasons where Rayna specifically says to Juliette that she doesn't want Maddie to ever perform anywhere with anyone? How would Juliette know that Rayna wasn't just opposed to Maddie having a record deal?

What, you mean like a specific instance/scene in which Rayna spelled it out? Not that I recall. But she and Juliette were on tour together for months, during which the girls accompanied Rayna. Plus, Maddie loves to unload her woes on Juliette in which I guarantee such a sticky subject would come up. If Juliette didn't know Rayna doesn't want her girls on the big stage yet, I would be very surprised.

[h2ogirl]

My favorite parts of this episode were people finally saying what needed to be said.  Loved it when Scarlett finally yelled at Deacon and loved it when Luke told Juliette she didn't get to play cool mom with Maddie when she'd abandoned her own child.  They both totally deserved it. 

 

Maddie's dress wasn't over the top provocative, but it was hideously ugly.  Blech.   

[pattycat]

I imagine a scenario, in which I am a recovering alcoholic..My disease has destroyed my liver

My Sister donates part of hers..She suffers complications that leave her brain dead, though, just yesterday, she was recovering, told me, she had heard everything, while she was in her long coma. I, on the other hand, am going to be fine. I'm going to live.

Her Son decides to shut off the life support.. Is it the right decision? Yes. Is it the decision she would want made? Yes.

Could I imagine myself begging for more time, being in denial, not ready to let go, being angry, at everyone, because I was so angry at me? Oh Yeah!!

Very hard to judge anyone. In such a heartbreaking situation.

[madam magpie]

Ha, so true! Are teenage girls on tv ever allowed to contemplate losing their virginity/"becoming a woman" differently?

No. They're also never allowed to enjoy it.

[dcalley]

She didn't have cleavage to her navel, there was a beige piece in the middle that went all the way up to her neck.

Right, fabric-wise it was more conservative than it looked. But it was suggestive of something else. I understand both thinking it was OK and thinking it was not OK. And yeah, it was kind of ugly.

 

Characters' feelings aside, there are legal agreements and liability issues involved with going on that stage, and Maddie surprising everyone by getting up there probably pissed off a lot of people, not just Luke and Rayna. The venue (the owner of which could own other venues) could even punish Luke, Juliette, et al. in the future by refusing to host them due to bad business practices/breach of contract. That's extreme, but it's a repercussion Maddie didn't think about. And what if a crazy fan stabbed her or a light exploded onto her head? The steps that need to take place before going on a huge arena stage didn't happen with her. That's part of being an adult, honey. I agree with Rayna that Maddie isn't entirely ready but also think that Rayna needs to do more to prepare her.

[Kathemy]

No. They're also never allowed to enjoy it.

Preach...

 

I guess I am the only one who's actually thinking that "hey, that was actually, probably a really great first time for her." You go to a concert, you get to perform a song with your childhood idol. Then you get yourself a nice, secluded space with your boyfriend for almost a year, none of your are drunk or high, and he asks you sincerely if this is what you want and you say yes. It's full of win!

 

I know it's probably going to be dramatized as something else altogether but anyway.

[LotusFlower]

Luke's offering Will a way to still work in country music for now. The rest (being on stage again) will come in time. I really do believe that Luke's on his side, but they work in an image-driven industry, and there are some realities that come with that.

So Luke cuts Will from his label, but you think he's on his side? Because he threw him some side work? (which was less about the song and more about easing his conscience). Substitute black for gay and you see how backwards-thinking this is. Equality means everyone having the same opportunities. If Will wants to perform on stage, he should be able to pursue his dream instead of being relegated to the sidelines. Nothing wrong with being a songwriter, but it's not his dream. (And let's not forget that it's totally new to him, it's something he struggles with, and only succeeded with a partner).

I guess what bothers me most are the people that do one thing privately, and another thing publicly - like Luke throwing Will a bone and pretending to support him with all the friendliness, but publicly not wanting to be associated with him (the label). Or the older country music star who said kind words in private, but didn't want his picture taken with him. That's why Rayna pulling Will into a selfie with a fan backstage at the Opry in last week's episode stood out to me (#WWTD), and signing Will to her label is where I think (and hope) this storyline is going.

[DeLurker]

        Trust me, LittleGrey, you are not alone. In fact, I've been there for a while already.

Word.  And I don't enjoy her singing - it is the least enjoyable part of the show for me.  Maybe it is the highness of her voice that I am sensitive to, but I can't understand a word usually.

 

truebluesmoky: I can't imagine that Pannettiere, as one of the two top leads of the show, wasn't consulted about her storyline or couldn't have gone to the showrunners to ask them to tone it down if it cut too close to the bone. She may find it therapeutic as a way of working through her own troubles, we don't know.  I would assume she's consented.

It is hard to watch given the news that has come out.  I assume that HP and her team were given storyline approval, but damn...I don't like when real life intrudes so ugly on my mind fluff.

 

I'm sure Will's brain knows that he can have a great career as a songwriter; it's just that his heart hasn't given up on the dream of being the performer up on stage yet.

That's what I took from it.

 

Will, Kevin & Gunnar. Love the "get Gunnar laid" mission. <snip>

 

I can't decide if Luke is being shitty to Will to sing his song when he wasn't willing to have him on his label, or trying to make up for being as ass by cutting him from his label. <snip>

 

Second week in a row I am saying this: Markus is an ass. 

That was funny.  But Emily is a no fly zone!  I like her and don't want her to become another angle in neverending Gunnar-Scarlett traingle of doom.  I did enjoy Will's claim of there being a spark with him too.

 

Luke's gonna pull shady shite on Will again.  He's too image conscious.

 

And clearly, his name is Marcass

Edited October 22, 2015 by DeLurker

[toodles]

 

 

 

 Like pregnancy.  Dear lord, do not let us go down that road.

I'm willing to bet a dollar that Maddie ends up pregnant.  As soapy as this show can be, how can they not play that card.  I liked all the music last night.  This is the first time I've really enjoyed this show in a long time.

[Soup333]

Luke always does what's best for his "brand." He knows Will's songs are good and could be very popular and since he won't allow Will to sing them under his label, he sees it as an opportunity to further his brand. And he's justifying it by saying that Will will get paid for co-writing the song so it's all good. 

 

Totally going with Marcass for this dude. Too bad about it though. I was really hoping Avery could actually complete an album of some sort.

 

Can't Maddie just get an STD? Something penicillan can cure? I mean, if she must be "punished" for losing her virginity, does it have to be a baby?

[madam magpie]

So Luke cuts Will from his label, but you think he's on his side? Because he threw him some side work? (which was less about the song and more about easing his conscience). Substitute black for gay and you see how backwards-thinking this is. Equality means everyone having the same opportunities. If Will wants to perform on stage, he should be able to pursue his dream instead of being relegated to the sidelines. Nothing wrong with being a songwriter, but it's not his dream. (And let's not forget that it's totally new to him, it's something he struggles with, and only succeeded with a partner).

I guess what bothers me most are the people that do one thing privately, and another thing publicly - like Luke throwing Will a bone and pretending to support him with all the friendliness, but publicly not wanting to be associated with him (the label). Or the older country music star who said kind words in private, but didn't want his picture taken with him. That's why Rayna pulling Will into a selfie with a fan backstage at the Opry in last week's episode stood out to me (#WWTD), and signing Will to her label is where I think (and hope) this storyline is going.

I think Luke's on Will's side as much as Luke's on anyone's side, actually. It seemed pretty clear to me that Luke acted out of fear even though his true belief was that Will should be allowed to perform and was doing nothing wrong. The likes of Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama and many others in the public eye have been doing that since long before Luke came along.

Some people see business as a strategy; others see it as an opportunity to do "good." That doesn't mean Luke's a bad guy. It just means his business is very important to him, and he wants to protect it. That's got both positive and negative repercussions, but I don't think that wanting to buy a song he likes from a gay artist is a negative repercussion. It's up to Will to decide how to proceed, but Luke doesn't owe Will a recording contract any more than Will owes Kevin's friends being the gay cowboy poster child. We don't have to admire either of them for those choices either, though. Rayna's the hero of this story. Of course she made the choice that the modern audience would agree with.

I also don't think black and gay are analogous or that "substitute black for gay or female" holds water given that black people were once slaves. Their history in America is much more charged than the other two, no matter how poorly gay people and women have been treated. But that said, if Luke's audience were predominently semi-racist and white, I could also understand him being reluctant to hire a black singer. (And country music audiences are both of those things; there have been very few black artists.) Playboy isn't going to put naked men in its magazine. Etc. when how you look or what you stand for are the basis of whether or not your business survives, I do think the entire thing is much more complicated. "Consider your audience" is a very real aspect of a business strategy.

Edited October 22, 2015 by madam magpie

[LotusFlower]

I think Luke's on Will's side as much as Luke's on anyone's side, actually. It seemed pretty clear to me that Luke acted out of fear even though his true belief was that Will should be allowed to perform and was doing nothing wrong. The likes of Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama and many others in the public eye have been doing that since long before Luke came along.

What's important, to me at least, is what he does, not what he (may) believe. Sorry to use a cliché, but actions speak louder than words. And yes, that applies to HRC and Obama, too! (Did you see the recent SNL skit with Hillary, where she conceded she was "a little late" in getting onboard the marriage equality bandwagon?)

Some people see business as a strategy; others see it as an opportunity to do "good." That doesn't mean Luke's a bad guy. It just means his business is very important to him, and he wants to protect it. That's got both positive and negative repercussions, but I don't think that wanting to buy a song he likes from a gay artist is a negative repercussion. It's up to Will to decide how to proceed, but Luke doesn't owe Will a recording contract any more than Will owes Kevin's friends being the gay cowboy poster child. We don't have to admire either of them for those choices either, though. Rayna's the hero of this story. Of course she made the choice that the modern audience would agree with.

Re: Luke not owing Will a recording contract - I would agree with you if Will (or any gay singer/artist) was new to the scene, and Luke simply didn't want to take a chance on signing them. But Will was already signed (or at least they had an oral agreement...I don't remember exactly), so Luke believed in his talent and thought signing him was a good business decision. The outing is what made Luke change his mind, which, frankly, is grounds for a discrimination suit in any other business.

I agree with you that we don't have to admire Luke, and yes, clearly Rayna is the hero here. I guess my beef is how some may see Luke's songwriting gig to Will as admirable or generous, whereas to me it feels insulting and patronizing.

[Bort]

I would like absolutely no consequence to Maddie's virginity-loss. There seems to always be some sort of consequence: STD, pregnancy, a scare of one or both of the above. I've only ever seen ONE instance where nothing happened when a girl lost her virginity (Holly J on Degrassi) and it was very refreshing.

[madam magpie]

(Did you see the recent SNL skit with Hillary, where she conceded she was "a little late" in getting onboard the marriage equality bandwagon?)

I did...it was great...though my favorite part was wanting to mount Trump's hair in the Ooooovaaaaal Office! What she's also said, though, is that it's legit to both change your mind as you gain new information and take time in making a decision. I believe both of those things to be true. Luke may eat crow later. Who knows. But I do think he's making the best decision he can at the moment. And the thing about actions speaking louder than words is that it requires a person to put aside all other obstacles and choose the side someone on the outside thinks is right. I don't necessarily think that's easy or the best choice a lot of the time.

I guess my beef is how some may see Luke's songwriting gig to Will as admirable or generous, whereas to me it feels insulting and patronizing.

I actually think it was both patronizing and generous. From where I sit, Luke owes Will nothing, new or established. If Luke feels that his brand and business will be threatened by having a gay artist on his label, OK. That's not what I admire or the guy I want to date, but it's OK. And he's probably right. He'd take a hit. So offering Will a songwriting gig is more than Luke owes him. Obviously it's also an easier way out for Luke. That's who he is, that AND the guy who has no personal problem with gay people. Remember too that it wasn't Luke who wouldn't take his picture with Will. It was the old guy. We have no idea what Luke thinks about being associated with Will socially, but he's never behaved like a bigot at all. He bailed when his business looked like it would take a hit. It's business...which is the same approach he often took with Rayna.

Luke and Rayna have long been established to be different kinds of people, much less different kinds of label heads. Rayna had no idea that there'd been a picture issue with Will at that party. She just pulled Will in because she's kind and inclusive and doesn't care what she looks like. Great. Rayna is the hero. She better be like that! Luke's not that guy. He's much more strategic with his life and business. I think that's OK because, in many cases, it's how you succeed. To demand something else of him is to demand that he be willing to fail, and I don't think that's really up to anyone else except the person involved.

Edited October 23, 2015 by madam magpie

[Bringonthedrama]

Juliet did spend time with Cadence when the baby was first born and Avery concentrated on his band until she felt trapped and changed, and tried to hire a babysitter and Avery flipped out. Instead of realising that his wife was a very successful artist and would need a transition into motherhood/career from just a career Avery tried to make sure she was just a mom. 

No, Avery was upset because he came home to find a nanny with Cadence who Juliette had hired (without a word to her husband) in the hours he'd been away. He had a right to be angry that he'd never met/had a chance to co-interview the woman caring for their child. Juliette's attitude was yeah, I called this number and they got me a nanny super-fast, isn't that great???  Juliette told Avery "you're so good with her" while observing him with the baby. She was upset that Avery was going out for business reasons and she was at home with the baby. She didn't feel like she was a natural with the baby, and wanted to get back to what was comfortable for her, so she did something rash - hire a nanny in a matter of hours. Avery wanted her to do both (he understandably got upset that she wouldn't say the baby's name and was trying to avoid holding her). Her reaction was to yell at him to let her hold the baby right that second and then she threw the snow globe at him when he didn't want to hand the baby over while she was tense/angry. Their final scene was him saying she's sick, needs help, he and the baby are leaving because Cadence is not safe around Juliette. Her reaction is 'F this, let's go on tour Luke." Her behavior since then has shown that she's very self-destructive beyond any PPD symptoms she's having. She refuses to acknowledge that anything is wrong, so she's not getting therapy. A phone call/text to Avery or Emily after months of avoidance and terrible behavior toward herself as well as everyone else is not proof that she's "coming around."  Avery knows that Juliette was selfish and self-destructive before they got married and had Cadence. He understands the reality, that Juliette is deeply messed up and that honestly Cadence can't count on her for the forseeable future. So he decides he's going to do his best to protect the baby from her mess of a mother. It may seem harsh, but it's sensible. As a previous poster said, better to cut ties now than to have Cadence being an emotional mess due to self-images issues because Mom is in and out of her life on whims of wanting to play Mommy.  

[Rose]

Someone upthread asked about Maddie flying, the guys driving, and Avery quickly getting to the concert venue.  Luke's concert was in Atlanta.  Travel between Nashville and Atlanta is just a few hours drive time, and flights are plentiful.

 

Also, Atlanta is the home of Coca-Cola.   The "Ford" reference puzzled me though.