Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[juppschmitz]

On 12/11/2018 at 11:34 PM, FlickChick said:

No actor threads, so I'm posting here. I am wondering how Jensen really feels about this season. When his showrunner makes a statement about needing "Dean" - but let's face it, really Jensen - gone so others can breathe, then proceeds to shoehorn multiple characters into the show so he can focus on those characters instead, what does he feel/think about that? Is he glad he has more time for family or is he insulted that, as one of the stars of the show, he is being pushed aside to accommodate Dabb's playthings?  I wonder, is he saying anything to anyone? We know he protects his character, so how must he feel about the way in which Dean is being treated in this season as well as the last few? Inquiring minds want to know...

I'm beginning to seriously question Jensen's professional integrity. I mean it's one thing having to put three kids through college and provide them with what-not while at the same time desiring to spend more time with them, but selling your (professional) soul and signing up for yet another season of working under Dabb? Man, I just don't know. That's gotta leave a mark.

[ILoveReading]

3 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

I'm beginning to seriously question Jensen's professional integrity. I mean it's one thing having to put three kids through college and provide them with what-not while at the same time desiring to spend more time with them, but selling your (professional) soul and signing up for yet another season of working under Dabb? Man, I just don't know. That's gotta leave a mark.

I think for Jensen its more about the environment he works in.  He loves Dean and the show, and is appreciative of all the things its given him.   He's loyal (too loyal, IMO) and I know he loves the working environment.  He knows what its like to work on a hostile set.    He loves the cast and crew like they're his family.  Almost 500 showed up to his party, some cancelling plans and coming from away to be there.  That speaks volumes about the kind of guy Jensen is.   He said his favorite thing on set is to greet the crew, by name and ask how they're day went or is going.  There is the pay check, and while Jensen is in a much better position to be out of work for awhile then the average person, it has to be scary for anyone to be out of work.  In holly wood you just never know.  

Jensen said he's had actors from emmy award winning shows come up to him and tell him they are jealous of him because of what he has.  Steady work.  

He's the biggest Dean girl there is.  

While it sucks as his fan because of how Dabb treats Dean, I do completely understand why he stays.   On screen content is probably at the bottom of the list.

I only hoped he signed a one year contract. 

[juppschmitz]

On 12/11/2018 at 1:07 PM, DeeDee79 said:

Seriously, in all the TV I've watched, I don't think I've seen any other character like this: a Grade A all-American heartthrob type acting like a happy, boyish nerd (and coming across as even more likable for it).

Does Paul Rudd count? He's probably too much of a cutie-pie anyway rather than a heart-throb.

In the olden days there were the big names like Rock Hudson and the one and only Cary Grant...

Edited November 14, 2018 by juppschmitz

[BabySpinach]

9 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Hmm... I'll have to think more on it, but off the top of my head I can only come up with a couple: Sam Beckett from Quantum Leap maybe.

There was also a character named Boonie from China Beach who also fits the bill in my opinion, but it was sort of part of his job - and a way to keep his sanity - that he acted that way. But maybe in a way that is a bit like Dean also. Ditto with Shawn Spenser from Psych. His acting like and enjoying being a nerd is part of how he keeps his sanity. Shawn might even out nerd Dean in that department. While Gus is also attractive and a nerd, he's not an alpha type, in my opinion.

 

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Chuck Bartowski on Chuck.

To clarify, I guess my emphasis would be more "action hero" than "alpha male". If Dean were only a troubled action hero type, with his self-worth issues, dad issues, snarky sense of humor, and self-destructive duty toward his brother, he still would have been a fully-realized and sympathetic character. But to also add "fanboying nerd" on top of that enriched Dean's personality even further. It was the extra mile that wasn't strictly necessary, that only served to make him more human and relatable. This contributes greatly to the sense that Dean exists only for himself and is compelling and interesting no matter what his connection to the mytharc is.  

This is why Dean is my favorite fictional character, because he's basically the whole package. Not in terms of a Mary Sue who is perfect at everything and beloved by everyone, but in terms of someone who is as multi-faceted and layered as an actual living human being, and a noble, compassionate, badass, selfless, irreverent human being at that. He's got well-developed traits and characteristics that don't serve a story purpose, but that's the case for all of us real people, too!

[juppschmitz]

5 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

This is why Dean is my favorite fictional character, because he's basically the whole package. Not in terms of a Mary Sue who is perfect at everything and beloved by everyone, but in terms of someone who is as multi-faceted and layered as an actual living human being, and a noble, compassionate, badass, selfless, irreverent human being at that. He's got well-developed traits and characteristics that don't serve a story purpose

Oh, yeah, ok, no there really is no other character that compares to Dean that way. I'm not joking. If there was, I wasn't so upset about the direction SPN has been taking.

[gonzosgirrl]

Baby Jensen on playing baby Dean. Do you think he ever could have imagined Friday night (300th party) then?

https://sensitivehandsomeactionman.tumblr.com/post/160155936111/its-going-to-be-lot-of-fun-playing-him-x

A little further down the page

https://sensitivehandsomeactionman.tumblr.com/post/180224136866/itsokaysammy-100-200-300-episodes-of

Edited November 18, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[bethy]

I feel like Jensen hasn't aged a bit, and then I see pictures like that and it's like, whoa. 

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, bethy said:

I feel like Jensen hasn't aged a bit, and then I see pictures like that and it's like, whoa.

You don't notice his aging when watching one season after another, but when you go from season 14 back to season 1, it is jarring.  Both he and Jared were babies back then.  But they're aging like a fine wine, so it's all good.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, bethy said:

I feel like Jensen hasn't aged a bit, and then I see pictures like that and it's like, whoa. 

I'm always shocked at how great he looks.  He's aged quite well, and IMO, is far more sexy and handsome now.

[bethy]

Oh, totally! There is a maturity in his looks and manner that is incredibly attractive. There’s just such a difference between other-worldly good-looking at 26 and other-worldly good-looking at 40. I think that’s what strikes me about Jensen, in particular. His beauty seems  unchanged, and yet it has. If that makes sense.

[gonzosgirrl]

21 minutes ago, bethy said:

Oh, totally! There is a maturity in his looks and manner that is incredibly attractive. There’s just such a difference between other-worldly good-looking at 26 and other-worldly good-looking at 40. I think that’s what strikes me about Jensen, in particular. His beauty seems  unchanged, and yet it has. If that makes sense.

It's his spirit, IMO. We only see shades of it in Dean - when he's allowed to show some joy/happiness. But Jensen exudes agelessness in his spirit, no matter the crows feet or (eventual) gray hairs.

[ILoveReading]

From the Optimism thread:  A discussion on Dean and his relationship with Ketch.

Maybe because its because I've met David a couple of times.  He's a super nice and friendly guy and I enjoy listening to him talk about his character.  He puts a lot of thought into his answers.   He doesn't make excuses or apologize for Ketch's actions or try to white wash them.  He doesnt' see Ketch as seeking redemption and makes no apologies for who Ketch is.  It was kind of nice because lately every single character, except Dean,  is a woebegotten woobie who is just misunderstood.

He said Ketch was trained to live life by a code.   When the Brits went belly up, so did that code.  So Ketch really is looking more for a new code or ideal to follow.  Not redemption.  He is who he is.

I've been kind of intrigued by the dynamic between him and Dean since The Raid.  Ketch always had respect for Dean's abilities, but thought his methods were sloppy.  (David's response after the raid).   .  When I told David I was enjoying this dynamic, his answer was "Me too."  Its nice to see a character that respects Dean.    Not to mention that fact that David and Jensen have some mad chemistry.

So when I say I ship them its more than just wanting to see them hook up.  I'm a realist.  I don't think their besties and I also don't think either would hesitate to throw the other under a bus if it suited their purpose.   I just think the two play well off each other.  I enjoy watching it. 

As for the Mary factor, it doesn't bother me for 3 reasons.  1.  Dean's adopted.  2.  I really did forget they hooked up until @catrox14 reminded me.  lol.  That' show little of an impression they made on me.  3.  It will never happen on screen.  

Another thing is that Ketch comes with no strings.  He's not someone who Dean has too look after or coddle or prop up.   The two have a more equal relationship and that makes me want more. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, juppschmitz said:

(Wrong thread? But where to post?)

I too think everyone can be free to ship who they want, as long as they don't demand it be made canon...

That's not what I have a problem with, but as others have said - Ketch?? Really? And my no-no wouldn't even be that he's a cast-off from Mom, but that he not only cold-bloodedly killed that Marga visionary girl, but also that he slaughtered a whole pile of soldiers who Sam and Dean had made a point to merely disable.

To me Ketch is truly a monster, no matter how much they try to white-wash him. Also that horrible fake-English accent.

Also brought over from the episode thread. I am on board with no redemption for Ketch, but I also agree with @ILoveReading and David when they say he's not really looking for redemption, either. I do think there was a measure of respect from Dean after their experience(s) on the other side, and I do believe it is mutual. While Dean is not the cold-blooded killer that Ketch is (no matter what the writers want us to believe these days), he does understand following orders. IMO, he should have put (another) bullet in Ketch the moment he reappeared, and salted and burned him this time. But he didn't, and Ketch did save Dean's life in the AU, and he is by far one of the more interesting, fleshed-out characters of the Dabb era, and Jensen and David do have chemistry. Given the givens, I'd far rather see them working with him than Nickifer/Pellegrino in any incarnation. It's sad, but at this point I'm on board for any character that shows Dean the respect he's due as a hunter, and as a man.

[Pondlass1]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

nd he is by far one of the more interesting, fleshed-out characters of the Dabb era,

This is why I enjoy Ketch and want to see him again in future episodes.  But they'll probably whitewash him and make him predictable like Jack, Cas, etc.

[tessathereaper]

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Also brought over from the episode thread. I am on board with no redemption for Ketch, but I also agree with @ILoveReading and David when they say he's not really looking for redemption, either. I do think there was a measure of respect from Dean after their experience(s) on the other side, and I do believe it is mutual. While Dean is not the cold-blooded killer that Ketch is (no matter what the writers want us to believe these days), he does understand following orders. IMO, he should have put (another) bullet in Ketch the moment he reappeared, and salted and burned him this time. But he didn't, and Ketch did save Dean's life in the AU, and he is by far one of the more interesting, fleshed-out characters of the Dabb era, and Jensen and David do have chemistry. Given the givens, I'd far rather see them working with him than Nickifer/Pellegrino in any incarnation. It's sad, but at this point I'm on board for any character that shows Dean the respect he's due as a hunter, and as a man.

True.  I definitely don't "ship" them, I don't really ship anyone but I agree I'd rather Dean and Ketch work together than pretty much Dean and anyone else on the show at this point, they have good chemistry and there is respect.

[catrox14]

I don't see the respect for Ketch from Dean at all. He tolerated him at best. I could see him thinking he owes him one for apparently saving him from being shot in the AU but friendship? No I don't see it. Mutually beneficial occasional allies? Yes. And Dean was fine with Ketch dying in the AU and said he was hoping for it. I don't see why either would be paired any further than was necessary for plot reasons.

Short of Ketch drugging and brainwashing Dean, I can't see them ever hooking up even for a kiss, LOL.

I see TPTB trying to play the Crowley/Dean card with Ketch and Dean and I don't appreciate it. LOL. 

[gonzosgirrl]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't see the respect for Ketch from Dean at all. He tolerated him at best. I could see him thinking he owes him one for apparently saving him from being shot in the AU but friendship?

I don't see them being drinking buddies or going for rides on the bike, but I do see at least grudging respect - especially when Ketch decided to stay behind in the AU to find Mary and Jack and cover Dean's return through the rift.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

don't see them being drinking buddies or going for rides on the bike, but I do see at least grudging respect - especially when Ketch decided to stay behind in the AU to find Mary and Jack and cover Dean's return through the ri

I think Dean thought it was the least Ketch could do given all the shit he did to Mary. For me that's not respect. Just a shift away from the ongoing hatred they have for each other. It's just less hatred. Like okay, I wont kill you right now. LOL

[ILoveReading]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I think Dean thought it was the least Ketch could do given all the shit he did to Mary. For me that's not respect. Just a shift away from the ongoing hatred they have for each other. It's just less hatred. Like okay, I wont kill you right now. LOL

Its weird but this is kind of what appeals to about the relationship.  Its antagonistic.  I just know that David and Jensen play really well off each other and that is makes it enjoyable.  It seems like they could develop a friendship, or at least become frenenimes. 

Ketch did walk into the lion's den to try and save Dean when he went back to London to track down leads.  It's more than this own mother did.

[gonzosgirrl]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I think Dean thought it was the least Ketch could do given all the shit he did to Mary. For me that's not respect. Just a shift away from the ongoing hatred they have for each other. It's just less hatred. Like okay, I wont kill you right now. LOL

I don't know - I think if Dean still had that level of hatred for him, he'd be suspicious of Ketch staying behind, and a threat to Mary and Jack - and he probably would've killed him before coming back.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Ketch did walk into the lion's den to try and save Dean when he went back to London to track down leads.  It's more than this own mother did.

To be fair, it`s not hard to do more than his mother did. But I did like the easter egg mention in the Premiere.

In general, some of Dean`s best relationships start with an antagonistic edge. Benny anyone? We didn`t see much of their beginning but we heard about it. Even the Dean/Cole stuff turned out okay, other than the weird "he looks older than Jensen" casting. Drowley. Ketch. Henrikson. I like when characters gain respect for and an appreciation of Dean after meeting him. I don`t need the Mary Sue love spell of "everyone just immediately loves this character for no reason" at work. So if characters who don`t know him yet or have formed a false opinion on half-truths think ill of him at first, that`s okay for me.   

[BabySpinach]

Well, Ketch DID seem pretty damn smitten when Dean rescued him in 13.22, lol.

On a more serious note, I totally get why people would ship Dean/Ketch. The characters interact as equals, there's some good, crusty back-and-forth that's got an edge to it rather than 100% supportiveness and boring googly eyes. Whenever there's actual tension and conflict in a relationship, it's automatically more shippable for fandom. This is a phenomenon that really just applies to the enjoyment of fictional characters. 

Let's be honest, Sam and Cas have both done much, MUCH worse to Dean than Ketch has, yet Wincest and Destiel are widespread and generally accepted as intrinsic parts of the fandom. Wincest is about brothers being in a relationship; Dean being with someone who's slept with a family member is small potatoes in comparison. In the end, I feel that it's more about character dynamics than backstories and baggage. 

I don't actually ship Dean/Ketch, but it does amuse and intrigue me. Those two should drive off into the sunset and let Chief and his band of woobie pets scramble over botched hunts and continue to not interact in any meaningful or compelling ways.

Edited November 20, 2018 by BabySpinach

[ILoveReading]

45 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

The characters interact as equals, there's some good, crusty back-and-forth that's got an edge to it rather than 100% supportiveness and boring googly eyes. Whenever there's actual tension and conflict in a relationship, it's automatically more shippable for fandom. This is a phenomenon that really just applies to the enjoyment of fictional characters. 

This is exactly why I enjoy their relationship. 

Dean and Cas's relationship started much the same way.  Cas threatened to throw Dean back into hell.  But over time we saw it develop and them gain that mutual respect.  It didn't happen over night.  It took years for Dean to tell Cas he's family, whereas with Jack he did it in episodes.  It never felt organic.  Even Jensen said it happened way to quick.

[AwesomO4000]

Brought over from the "Small Talk" thread, because the current discussion reminded me that I didn't answer this at the time. It's in reference to the Dragon*Con Supernatural panel:

On 9/3/2018 at 3:03 PM, S Cook Productions said:

I couldn't make it! My Star Trek panel at the Hilton ran way over, and the crowd to get to the Westin was insane! What did I miss?

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I don't see the respect for Ketch from Dean at all. He tolerated him at best. I could see him thinking he owes him one for apparently saving him from being shot in the AU but friendship? No I don't see it. Mutually beneficial occasional allies? Yes. And Dean was fine with Ketch dying in the AU and said he was hoping for it. I don't see why either would be paired any further than was necessary for plot reasons.

One of the most interesting things I took away from the Supernatural Panel at Dragon*Con this past year was that many of the people attending that panel HATED Ketch. As in they may have wanted to see him again... but only as a precursor to his messy, gruesome death. Heh. And they definitely thought that he was a rotten individual.

I kind of agree. Sure he's somewhat interesting, but for me, it doesn't matter if Ketch has respect for Dean, because in my opinion, Ketch doesn't deserve to be the mud on the bottom of Dean's shoe. He's just another nameless sociopath who uses "order" and "code" to justify doing awful things. And if Dean believes the story that Ketch didn't know about Sam getting tortured... well I don't think Dean's that naive. So that would make two members of Dean's family that Ketch either condoned the torture of or personally tortured.

Ketch should be grateful that Dean hasn't killed him on principal alone, and the second he messes up and does something awful again, I hope Dean is there to put him down like the vermin he is... or maybe Sam or Castiel can do it on Dean's behalf. I think I would like that very much.

[DeeDee79]

7 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I kind of agree. Sure he's somewhat interesting, but for me, it doesn't matter if Ketch has respect for Dean, because in my opinion, Ketch doesn't deserve to be the mud on the bottom of Dean's shoe. He's just another nameless sociopath who uses "order" and "code" to justify doing awful things. And if Dean believes the story that Ketch didn't know about Sam getting tortured... well I don't think Dean's that naive. So that would make two members of Dean's family that Ketch either condoned the torture of or personally tortured.

Ketch should be grateful that Dean hasn't killed him on principal alone, and the second he messes up and does something awful again, I hope Dean is there to put him down like the vermin he is... or maybe Sam or Castiel can do it on Dean's behalf. I think I would like that very much.

I find this interesting since you've stated that you liked Metatron who actually killed Dean. Not disputing that Ketch is a bad guy; I just don't see how he's worse than Metatron. If I'm misremembering you stating that please ignore me.

[BabySpinach]

17 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Brought over from the "Small Talk" thread, because the current discussion reminded me that I didn't answer this at the time. It's in reference to the Dragon*Con Supernatural panel:

One of the most interesting things I took away from the Supernatural Panel at Dragon*Con this past year was that many of the people attending that panel HATED Ketch. As in they may have wanted to see him again... but only as a precursor to his messy, gruesome death. Heh. And they definitely thought that he was a rotten individual.

I kind of agree. Sure he's somewhat interesting, but for me, it doesn't matter if Ketch has respect for Dean, because in my opinion, Ketch doesn't deserve to be the mud on the bottom of Dean's shoe. He's just another nameless sociopath who uses "order" and "code" to justify doing awful things. And if Dean believes the story that Ketch didn't know about Sam getting tortured... well I don't think Dean's that naive. So that would make two members of Dean's family that Ketch either condoned the torture of or personally tortured.

Ketch should be grateful that Dean hasn't killed him on principal alone, and the second he messes up and does something awful again, I hope Dean is there to put him down like the vermin he is... or maybe Sam or Castiel can do it on Dean's behalf. I think I would like that very much.

Ketch is no worse than Rowena, Metatron, or Crowley used to be. I don't understand why a murderous human is on a whole other level of "scum" compared to murderous witches, demons, or angels (two of whom had been committing misdeeds for literal centuries). If Dean was fairly accepting of all three of these people when they expressed a desire to change their ways, I don't see how Ketch would be so horribly unqualified for Dean's eventual, grudging acceptance as well. 

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, BabySpinach said:

Ketch is no worse than Rowena, Metatron, or Crowley used to be. I don't understand why a murderous human is on a whole other level of "scum" compared to murderous witches, demons, or angels (two of whom had been committing misdeeds for literal centuries). If Dean was fairly accepting of all three of these people when they expressed a desire to change their ways, I don't see how Ketch would be so horribly unqualified for Dean's eventual, grudging acceptance as well. 

I agree. They ( Sam, Dean & Cas ) even worked with Meg on numerous occasions and she's done quite a number on the Winchesters as well. Fandom still loves her for whatever reason.

[devlin]

1 minute ago, BabySpinach said:

Ketch is no worse than Rowena, Metatron, or Crowley used to be. I don't understand why a murderous human is on a whole other level of "scum" compared to murderous witches, demons, or angels (two of whom had been committing misdeeds for literal centuries). If Dean was fairly accepting of all three of these people when they expressed a desire to change their ways, I don't see how Ketch would be so horribly unqualified for Dean's eventual, grudging acceptance as well. 

Rowena has tried to kill dean at least twice  but it’s ok coz she and sam get to bond and share sad stories. Gabriel has killed dean multiple times but for some reason sam ‘needs’ him. Metatron kills dean but gets to go out a hero. I have zero problems with dean and ketch

[MysteryGuest]

I think in the world that Sam and Dean live in, the line between friends and enemies is not clearly defined, or at least it's ever-shifting.  If Dean could have a pseudo friendship with the King of Hell, then anything's possible.  I don't think Dean "likes" Ketch, but I do think he found a certain level of respect for him.  They managed to work with those two hunters who actually killed them, so they evidently can overlook quite a bit if they need to.  They live in a perpetual "all hands on deck" situation where they're always trying to stave off some world-ending crisis, so if you're prepared to ally yourself with their cause, they'll probably allow you to help, regardless of any past issues.  

Edited November 20, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[AwesomO4000]

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I find this interesting since you've stated that you liked Metatron who actually killed Dean. Not disputing that Ketch is a bad guy; I just don't see how he's worse than Metatron. If I'm misremembering you stating that please ignore me.

No, you're not misremembering... I actually loved Metatron. Well, more to the point, I loved to hate him. I though that he was an intriguing villain. But Metatron wasn't human, so I understood why he was a villain. And I actually bought that when he lost his power and lost everything that he did actually learn something from it. I believed everything Metatron was saying to Chuck in "Don't Call Me Shurley" about humanity, because I felt that he had learned. It intrigued me that a being who read all about humanity and knew countless stories about people, still didn't really understand the feeling behind all of those stories... until he became basically human himself. For me that was a great story. Also Metatron was self aware by then. He knew that he was a complete jerk.

And Metatron did kill Dean, but he did so because it was a means to an end... and I still think that for Dean, killing him - especially since Dean dying isn't typically permanent - isn't worse than torturing his family. I think for Dean that would be worse, because that's personal. Worse, Ketch had sex with his mother before and/or while torturing her. That takes a special kind of evil, in my opinion.

4 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Ketch is no worse than Rowena, Metatron, or Crowley used to be. I don't understand why a murderous human is on a whole other level of "scum" compared to murderous witches, demons, or angels (two of whom had been committing misdeeds for literal centuries).

For me the human thing makes a difference... And I throw Rowena in here. The reason the ship of Rowena/Sam dismays me is because she's so horrible, in my opinion. As for Crowely... he, too, was awful. I so wished that Sam would have gotten to kill his ass like he had always wanted to do. Bummer.

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

They ( Sam, Dean & Cas ) even worked with Meg on numerous occasions and she's done quite a number on the Winchesters as well. Fandom still loves her for whatever reason.

Oh, man... that Meg / Sam "heart to heart" in "Goodbye Stranger" is one of my pet peeves. I don't know what it is with this show and Sam having to make nice with people and beings that torture, kill, forcefully possess and/or otherwise do horrible things to him. That was one of the few things I didn't like from season 7 was making Meg an ally... that made no sense to me, and the season 8 turning her into a talk buddy was worse.

5 minutes ago, devlin said:

Rowena has tried to kill dean at least twice  but it’s ok coz she and sam get to bond and share sad stories. Gabriel has killed dean multiple times but for some reason sam ‘needs’ him.

See above Sam must make nice with people who are crappy to him... For me this shows that Sam needs some friends. ; ) Seriously, is there no one else for Sam to talk to than former enemies?

And I think - if I remember correctly - Sam did need Gabriel for something. I think it was to save their mom(?) My recent show history is kinda shaky.

And ehn, Castiel pretty much tried to kill Sam, too, and he's family.

And as @MysteryGuest above says, the Winchesters have to be flexible.

[DeeDee79]

25 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Oh, man... that Meg / Sam "heart to heart" in "Goodbye Stranger" is one of my pet peeves. I don't know what it is with this show and Sam having to make nice with people and beings that torture, kill, forcefully possess and/or otherwise do horrible things to him. That was one of the few things I didn't like from season 7 was making Meg an ally... that made no sense to me, and the season 8 turning her into a talk buddy was worse.

I think out of all of the people both human and inhuman that they've allied with she was the most mind boggling for me. Especially considering that she was Azazel's daughter.

[PAForrest]

12 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

Ketch is no worse than Rowena, Metatron, or Crowley used to be. I don't understand why a murderous human is on a whole other level of "scum" compared to murderous witches, demons, or angels (two of whom had been committing misdeeds for literal centuries). If Dean was fairly accepting of all three of these people when they expressed a desire to change their ways, I don't see how Ketch would be so horribly unqualified for Dean's eventual, grudging acceptance as well. 

Exactly, he isn't any different or any worse, so I'm perfectly fine with Dean working with Ketch as I have been with all the others mentioned. Yes, the Winchesters have to be, and are, flexible working with the enemies of enemies, and Ketch qualifies as well or better than others after last season.

And, of course, there's the fact that Jensen and David have a lot of chemistry together on screen, and anyone Jensen has chemistry with and works well off of on screen is always going to gain the positive attention of fans.

[ahrtee]

15 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

Ketch is no worse than Rowena, Metatron, or Crowley used to be. I don't understand why a murderous human is on a whole other level of "scum" compared to murderous witches, demons, or angels (two of whom had been committing misdeeds for literal centuries). If Dean was fairly accepting of all three of these people when they expressed a desire to change their ways, I don't see how Ketch would be so horribly unqualified for Dean's eventual, grudging acceptance as well. 

3 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Exactly, he isn't any different or any worse, so I'm perfectly fine with Dean working with Ketch as I have been with all the others mentioned. Yes, the Winchesters have to be, and are, flexible working with the enemies of enemies, and Ketch qualifies as well or better than others after last season.

 

The Winchesters are pragmatic and will work with anyone they need to help with a particular situation (even Lucifer!) though usually one has to convince the other that it's necessary (they alternate in that role.)  The difference to me is that Dean never forgives and never fully trusts those who have harmed him or his family, even if he develops respect for them.  He always seems wary around them.

Sam, OTOH, seems to wind up fully trusting anyone who's helped them (except Lucifer...and Benny :) ) and usually  winds up bonding with them and calling them his "real friends" (and giving them dangerous tools, such as the page from the spellbook he gave Rowena.)  Dean wouldn't give Crowley back the First Blade, even though Crowley wouldn't' be able to use it.  

[Pondlass1]

I'm not at all into ships.  The only ship I'm into is Pondlass/Dean.  Pean or Dondlass?

Dean working with another man doesn't equate to any kind of ship for me, it doesn't even enter my head.  Dean working with Ketch (with whom he has chemistry) means an intriguing plotline.  Can Ketch be trusted kind of thing.  It's what made Crowley one of their most entertaining frenemies.  Dean's not stupid enough to trust anyone willy nilly. And neither is the audience.

We have to remember this is a supernatural adventure show we're watching.  Suspense and tension should run through almost all scenes.  And Dean hooking up with Ketch for an episode could be an edgy time.  They are both smart and going to use each other to their best advantage.  

[Lemuria]

35 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'm not at all into ships.  The only ship I'm into is Pondlass/Dean.  Pean or Dondlass?

Dean working with another man doesn't equate to any kind of ship for me, it doesn't even enter my head.  Dean working with Ketch (with whom he has chemistry) means an intriguing plotline.  Can Ketch be trusted kind of thing.  It's what made Crowley one of their most entertaining frenemies.  Dean's not stupid enough to trust anyone willy nilly. And neither is the audience.

We have to remember this is a supernatural adventure show we're watching.  Suspense and tension should run through almost all scenes.  And Dean hooking up with Ketch for an episode could be an edgy time.  They are both smart and going to use each other to their best advantage.  

I almost totally agree with your post.  Ahead of "Pean" or "Dondlass," I would give you--*drum roll*--Lean: Lemuria/Dean.

I promise to leave something for you.  :)

[gonzosgirrl]

No idea where this belongs, but since it's strictly Jensen related, I'll try here. Inside the Ackles' redecorated/renovated home in Austin. It is gorgeous and even more so because it's personal - reflecting their love of music, art and Texas. ♥ Some great (if posed) family pics, too.

Architectural Digest article

Slideshow

[Pondlass1]

 

Jensen doesn’t get these kinds of acting opportunities anymore.

[FlickChick]

So sadly true, and unfortunately, given our current showrunner - unlike Kripke - never will again on Supernatural. We can only hope that after a brief break, he returns to a show/shows that showcase his innate talent.

[devlin]

5 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

 

 

Jensen doesn’t get these kinds of acting opportunities anymore.

I was rewatching the last 3 episodes of season 2 and I am still blown away by this man’s talent. His speech to dead sam is still one of the most heart wrenching scenes I have watched. It is mind boggling to me that those writing this show refuse to use his talents to bring their words to life

[Cambion]

Not sure if this is the right place...but I was watching the JAX convention panels on YouTube and someone asked the guys what their favorite flavor of their characters they liked to play.  JA answered YellowFever!Dean.  Good one.  I gotta throw my vote in for Dementia!Dean (Regarding Dean) - Sucks for that guy!

 

How about you guys? Favorite Dean flavors? 

 

And I'm trying to find the Moose thread to ask the same thing there but my feelings will not be hurt if someone beats me to it.  lol cause JP had a great answer too!

[gonzosgirrl]

16 hours ago, Cambion said:

How about you guys? Favorite Dean flavors? 

All I can think about is lickable Dean.

BRB.

(well maybe not right back)

[gonzosgirrl]

Upon reflection I think I gotta go with pissed-off/bad-ass Dean. I'm thinking of him taking out all the Steins in The Prisoner. The fight with Rowena's body-guard.

Oh, and Running Dean. Yeah.

[BlueSapphire]

I’ll always have a thing for Spirit!Dean in “In My Time of Dying.”  The scrub pants, the V-neck T-shirt, those fabulous forearms, the bare feet—wait, is it getting hot in here?

[bethy]

41 minutes ago, BlueSapphire said:

I’ll always have a thing for Spirit!Dean in “In My Time of Dying.”  The scrub pants, the V-neck T-shirt, those fabulous forearms, the bare feet—wait, is it getting hot in here?

Classic Dean is always a win in my book.

[Pondlass1]

 

kissing Jensen.  What’s it like? 

[Cambion]

9 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

 

kissing Jensen.  What’s it like? 

 

HA!!  I'm not going there......cause, is there even a number that high?

[ahrtee]

2 minutes ago, Cambion said:

HA!!  I'm not going there......cause, is there even a number that high?

All I can think of is the smile on Pamela's face after kissing Dean in heaven...and the "mmmm...just like I imagined!"

[ILoveReading]

https://sexuallyattractedtofanfiction.tumblr.com/post/181175215792/underrated-detail-from-14x9-same-action

Jensen is such an amazing actor.  I just wish they would write for him

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

kissing Jensen.  What’s it like? 

 

1 hour ago, Cambion said:

HA!!  I'm not going there......cause, is there even a number that high?

I'm going with Seven.

(tm Monica Gellar)

[ILoveReading]

Discuss Dean in episode 14

1. Nightmare- This was a good ep.  I thought it helped set up the mystery of the season nicely.  But I always felt so bad for Dean.  His reaction at the end was the first time I wondered if John might have been physically abusive towards Dean.  I never felt he was anything like Max's dad but I do believe there were times he reacted in a physical manner towards Dean.  It also shows how much Sam didn't realize exactly how much Dean did for him, when Dean tells Sam that he has something Max never had, and Sam said Dad, and Dean had to point out Sam had him.  It also a big clue, IMO that Sam and Dean were not close growing up and that is really fan fiction. 

2. Born Under a Bad Sign- This was really more Sam centric but I still love this ep.   Its when Jo started to grow on me.   Jensen was great showing how frantic Dean was.  It also showed his instincts on full display.  He knew there was something else going on.  It also showed his faith in Sam.

3. Long Distance Call- I remembered when this ep aired and a big criticism was that Dean looked dumb for beleiving.  I never felt that watching this up.  Mostly because I think deep down, Dean knew it wasn't their dad.  He was just so desperate to believe that he convinced himself.   When he was younger, Dean believed their dad could save them from anything, so I can see Dean needing to believe that their dad would be able to help them with his deal.  "Maybe that's all I got."  That summed it all up for me and made it obvious.  Dean needed to believe this.   Jensen nailed Deans' desperation. 

4. Sex and Violence- I liked this ep the first time it aired, but the way the "resolution" (and I use that term lightly) played out, it makes it hard to watch that nothing Sam said was ever really addressed, expect for Sam's snotty, "do we need to talk about this"  Unfortunately, Sam sees to really believe the thing he said about his brother.  So its really hard to watch this in repeats.  

5. My Bloody Valentine- This is another ep that really doesn't hold up on rewatch.  It was disappointing that they just dropped Dean feeling empty inside, and the way Dean was made to just stand around at the end of the ep. 

6, Mannequin 3: The Reckoning- Nothing really stands out in this ep.  I did like the premise of haunted organs but the concept kind of got lost.  I think there was a scene of Dean talking to Ben, but not a real stand out for Dean.

7. Plucky Pennywhistle's Magical Menagerie- I loved this ep.  I thought it was a great stand alone that was equally balanced between Sam and Dean.  I love that Dean watches shark week.  I love Shark Week and it makes me love Dean even more that he does too.    It even had the first BM that I enjoyed in a long time.  Because Sam removed the stick for his nether regions and allowed Dean to tease him.  It was great to see Dean get his slinky.  But it also shows another sign of Dean's lost childhood.  The only thing I didn't like was the show couldn't resist not making Deans' responsible for Sam's fear of clowns and making Dean apologize.  He was a kid too. 

8. Trial and Error- I hated this ep.  I predicted exactly how it would go.  It would make it seem like Dean was going to do the trials and then at the end he's make some dumb rookie mistake and Sam would swoop in when complete it, making him the chosen one once again, and Dean being relgated to the sidelines.  I knew it the minute they annouced that only one brother would be doing them.  Plus, I hated those speeches.  It was thinly disguised, Sam's strong, Dean's weak.   Dean's suddenly "sucidal" attitude came out of know where and was promptly dropped because suddenly Sam was.  Sam didn't do or say a thing to back up anything he said.  Despite the brains/brawn and Dean supposedly being a genius at lore, the show promptly made Sam both and went back to treating Dean like a grunt, and guilty cheeleader (*TM Jensen himself).

9. Captives- Dean, you constantly break my heart.   I could feel the depth of Dean's dispair with everything in me.  Jensen was phenomenal that whole season. 

10. The Executioners Song- Beren's what happened to you?  I can't believe he wrote this episode.  It's one of the best of the series and should have gotten Jensen nominated for an emmy.  It's one of the my favorite eps of TV.  The writing, directing, acting, editing were all spot on.  Thank Godness they let the Dean/Cain scenes breath and the editor didn't feel a need to constantly cut it.   It was just epic.  The fight between Dean and Cain is one of my favorites.  Tim and Jensen just have such amazing chemistry.  It even had a rare BM scene that I liked.  When Dean just kind of collapsed in Sam's arms.   I felt bad for poor Crowley when Dean gave Cas the blade.  Poor Crowley, his crush was so one sided. 

11. The Vessel- Jensen was really good in this ep, and I liked his interactions with the crew but it Dean really was superfluous to this ep.  

12. The Raid-  I enjoyed Dean telling off Mary but that was ruined when he was made to apologize for some very real truths.   really liked Dean's interactions with Ketch and the start of their dynamic.  David and Jensen have some great chemistry but over all it wasn't a great ep for Dean. The Ketch stuff was to get him off screen, and I didn't like they they made Dean learn another very special lesson about respecting others choices and then made it clear that its okay for Sam to completely disrespect Dean's and then Sam got rewarded for it.  So I ask again, comparing this to Executioner's Song.  What the hell happened to Berens?  He's now my least favorite writer.

13. Good Intentions- I literally cannot remember a single thing that happened in this ep.  I don't even remember what it was about.

I seem to find I'm mostly neutral to episode 14, overall.  Favorite ep- Executioner's Song.  Least favorite- a tie between Trial and Error and The Raid.

Edited December 22, 2018 by ILoveReading