Dean Winchester: aka Squirrel

[RulerofallIsurvey]

9 minutes ago, ilovedean27 said:

Ok. I forgot about that scene. Seems like it was so long ago. It's been a very long, very boring season, in my opinion. 

Pity, because that was SUCH a great line from Dean.  I don't think this season has been long or boring overall.  Parts, yes.  But not altogether.  

[SueB]

21 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yes, it was from Mamma Mia.  I think Dean's gotten quite a few brainy scenes over the years.  He's just not a bookworm, which is fine.  He did build his own EMF detector.  He doesn't like the research as much, but he does his fair share and isn't shown to be inept at in the least.  He drank phoenix ash and got Eve to bite him.  If that's not brainy, I don't know what is. 

I find Dean to be excellent at reading people with unusually apt instincts.  And his real-time tactical decision making is pretty much his super-power IMO.  Being a badass isn't of any value if you can't make it work for you at the right moment.  

[FlickChick]

1 minute ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Pity, because that was SUCH a great line from Dean.  I don't think this season has been long or boring overall.  Parts, yes.  But not altogether.  

It's very clear to me that you don't agree, but I also think that this season has been often boring. I also think that the Dean I know and love has disappeared into the woodwork. Actually, he has even literally disappeared for half of two episodes. There has been little writing that explains why this is. We as fans can headcanon until the cows come home as to what Dean is thinking/feeling/going through/etc., but it is just that - headcanon - no definitive actions or dialog (that is consistent in any form) or even mentions from other characters. It just seems so bizarre to me that this is how a main character was treated throughout the season. It seems off. Obviously, all opinions here are just mine and no one has to agree with them.

[ilovedean27]

1 minute ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Pity, because that was SUCH a great line from Dean.  I don't think this season has been long or boring overall.  Parts, yes.  But not altogether.  

Ok. First of all, I really did forget that line which is why I asked if it happened this season (by the way, I also liked that line}. Second, no need to fake pity me. I'm actually fine. This has happened with other shows I've watched. The show will go through a period I find boring. Sometimes the show recovers, sometimes it doesn't. I'm waiting to see if Supernatural can: Maybe by the end of the season or maybe next season. We'll see. Again, this is all my opinion. If you're currently enjoying the show, more power to you. I don't have a problem with that. However, I have noticed that some people tend to have a problem when someone says they're not enjoying the show.

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Yes, it was from Mamma Mia.  I think Dean's gotten quite a few brainy scenes over the years.  He's just not a bookworm, which is fine.  He did build his own EMF detector.  He doesn't like the research as much, but he does his fair share and isn't shown to be inept at in the least.  He drank phoenix ash and got Eve to bite him.  If that's not brainy, I don't know what is. 

Dean's desire to do research is directly related to the amount of Plotonium he is exposed to in any given episode.

Dean liked the research in s1 and up to s4. It's when they brought Bobby on full time in s4 that suddenly Dean didn't like research anymore. Dean did his own research in s6 when he was trying to find a way to get Sam out of Hell. There was no indication to me that Bobby was helping with that considering Bobby was lying about Sam being alive.  In season 7, Frank taught Dean how to do some hard core hacking and then Charlie is introduced to take over 'hacker' status. In s8 Dean was pretty excited to download a translation app, yet Sam kind of ended up as the "computer guy", too.  Then after Charlie is killed, Sam apparently has become hacker extraordinaire and Dean does as the plot dictates.

Dean was obsessed with his own research to remove the MoC until they flipped the page over to Sam being the one to suggest Dean was too obsessed and needed to go on a hunt. I guess that was the way to move the research over to Sam so it set up him and the book of the damned etc. 

I can't really recollect whether Dean was doing much research in s11. And there was one mention of him with Aesop's Fables that Sam looked legit surprised that Dean would know and Dean had to explain 'I read". 

He was able to have that moment is s12 with the spell thing in Mamma Mia...but since then....I haven't see a lot of research!Dean.  He was doing some to find Cas but that was the database searches vs new stuff.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

3 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

It's very clear to me that you don't agree, but I also think that this season has been often boring. I also think that the Dean I know and love has disappeared into the woodwork.

I did say parts of this season had been boring, but overall: No.  I also think that as @SueB said in another thread, the boys are in a pretty darn good relationship with each other, which, to me, is refreshing to see.  (IMO, we haven't really seen that since S2) so I don't know what Dean you know and love - but I'm happy with the one who isn't at odds with Sam, for once.  

2 minutes ago, ilovedean27 said:

Second, no need to fake pity me. I'm actually fine.

No fake pity.  No really.  I don't do that.  And I'm glad you're fine.  Seriously.  (So am I, btw.)  Now that we've established we're all okay:

4 minutes ago, ilovedean27 said:

I have noticed that some people tend to have a problem when someone says they're not enjoying the show.

And I've noticed that some people tend to have a problem when someone says they are enjoying the show.  *shrugs*. 

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Dean liked the research in s1 and up to s4. It's when they brought Bobby on full time in s4 that suddenly Dean didn't like research anymore.

I disagree.  I don't think he liked it, but I think he did it and I think he was good at it.  Even way back in Shadow, Sam made a comment about him figuring something out.  Dean said that Sam didn't have a monopoly (or something to that effect) on paperchasing, but then he admitted that he called Caleb.  Don't get me wrong, calling someone that you know has the info or can get it faster than you IS smart.  But, I think it does show that Dean wasn't as into research as Sam was.  Not that he couldn't or wouldn't do it.  Just that he preferred other parts of the job.

[Aeryn13]

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so I don't know what Dean you know and love - but I'm happy with the one who isn't at odds with Sam, for once.  

 I think Dean deserves to be more - and is more actually - than what he can be to and for Sam at any given moment. Dean the individual onto himself is my concern. He has positive attributes, skill sets and all that. I wish those would be shown.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

 I think Dean deserves to be more - and is more actually - than what he can be to and for Sam at any given moment.

I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive - (for either brother) nor has it been so this season.

[Aeryn13]

Well, this Season Sam doesn`t really need Dean or teamwork because in a team both people should contribute something of value. So they broke out of the Dean is just there to be a big brother mindset. Which, in theory, I would applaud. But they didn`t fill that open slot with something else so right now Dean is there to be there. Which isn`t a good reason.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Is it really that outlandish to wish for something better and more exciting for a favourite character?

Not in the slightest. I like Sam but I love Dean and I've been disappointed with the lackluster scenes that the character has gotten. I enjoy seeing what Jensen brings to the table and while I don't feel resentment towards Jared's screentime I wish that Dean would be more than the wallpaper or comic relief that he seems to have been for much of the season IMO.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

28 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Well, this Season Sam doesn`t really need Dean or teamwork because in a team both people should contribute something of value.

Well, I disagree on both points.  On the teamwork aspect - even just in the last episode Dean told Sam to stay in the basement with the sheriff and Sam did as Dean said - that is SAM FOLLOWED DEAN'S ORDER.  How is that not teamwork?  

As far as Sam not needing Dean: that hasn't been shown at all, IMO.  In fact, I would say that since they seem to be a stronger team, since they are working better together now more than every (less at odds) they need each other more.  That's how a GOOD team works - so seamlessly that it's easy to take the individual parts for granted.  

[Aeryn13]

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In fact, I would say that since they seem to be a stronger team, since they are working better together now more than every (less at odds) they need each other more.  That's how a GOOD team works - so seamlessly that it's easy to take the individual parts for granted.  

If someone in a team had to do all the work - on their part and technically all the work their teammate should do - it`s not a team to me. It`s one person doing the work and the other either being a liability or a slacker. In the last episode Sam finished the entire hunt, every part that actually contributed by himself. Dean on the other hand got himself captured. That contributed nothing to the case. If Dean had stayed behind in the bunker, the case would have played out the same or even better. And this has been the case for me several episodes now. 

And normally Dean isn`t a slacker or a liability on hunts, just these past episodes. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I disagree.  I don't think he liked it, but I think he did it and I think he was good at it.  Even way back in Shadow, Sam made a comment about him figuring something out.  Dean said that Sam didn't have a monopoly (or something to that effect) on paperchasing, but then he admitted that he called Caleb.  Don't get me wrong, calling someone that you know has the info or can get it faster than you IS smart.  But, I think it does show that Dean wasn't as into research as Sam was.  Not that he couldn't or wouldn't do it.  Just that he preferred other parts of the job.

I guess that's interpretation then.

 

Dean seemed pretty happy to research IMO in early seasons. He always had a newspaper with him, looking for cases.  He never looked put out to do it. He liked having John's journal to look things up. He seemed to enjoy going to the library and using the computer to research something only to have Sam become impatient with him and shove him out of the way to look it up himself. Heh. Maybe Dean actually decided in that moment to just put all that work on Sam going forward since Sam was kind of being an ass about it. LOL  Maybe I'll just make that my new headcanon.

Dean is a reader.  He reads novels, technical manuals given he can rebuild a car from scratch etc to me, I can't fathom him not wanting to do research because it involves some book research.

My point though with my long ass comment was to show that Dean's research still varies based on the plot and character needs for an episode and it was completely shifted in s4 because they needed to have Bobby do something. IMO that shift was not supported by the previous 3 seasons of Dean doing research and not being put out to do it.

[rue721]

IMO Dean is a problem-solver. If he's not directly tackling the problem in some way IMO he gets impatient and feels like he's wasting time. I think he's capable of doing research just fine, but he's not down for doing research for research's sake because IMO he sees that is basically just wanking off -- and if he's going to just be doing something "for fun" then he might as well do something actually FUN lol.

[Aeryn13]

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I think it depends on what you define as 'work'.  

Anything that is a truly valuable contribution to the outcome. The show has pretty much established what a general hunt entails: finding the job (eliminated now due to the BMOl), then research (questioning witnesses, looking up lore, finding out history of places and people), possibly saving people in direct peril and physically confronting the monster in question.  If someone doesn`t do a major part of any of those, they don`t contribute anything.

Dean has done the job many years. He knows this. He knows sitting across from someone and half-heartedly listening to the research doesn`t help. Hooking up with waitresses doesn`t help. Getting captured doesn`t help. Driving around and only arriving after the case is finished doesn`t help. Strolling through the woods with Crowley doesn`t help. Being mute when you mean to convince someone not to kill a colleague doesn`t help.   

[RulerofallIsurvey]

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Dean has done the job many years. He knows this. He knows sitting across from someone and half-heartedly listening to the research doesn`t help. Hooking up with waitresses doesn`t help. Getting captured doesn`t help. Driving around and only arriving after the case is finished doesn`t help. Strolling through the woods with Crowley doesn`t help. Being mute when you mean to convince someone not to kill a colleague doesn`t help.

I agree about valuable contributions - but as my real life example showed (imo) different people have different opinions about what constitutes 'valuable contributions'.  

Hooking up with waitresses might help if it's a stress relief, since too much stress often leads to avoidable mistakes.  :)

Can't say much about the getting captured, because that's happened plenty to both of them.

Strolling the the woods with Crowley - well, they were both looking for Ramsey - and Crowley should have had the upper hand as far as finding his own hellhound.

Being mute when you mean to convince someone not to kill a colleague - when another member of your team is already making a very good point, there's really no need to chime in.  It's redundant, and that wouldn't have been teamwork.  That would have been glory seeking, imo.  

[Aeryn13]

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Hooking up with waitresses might help if it's a stress relief, since too much stress often leads to avoidable mistakes.  :)

That sure didn`t work out then.

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Strolling the the woods with Crowley - well, they were both looking for Ramsey - and Crowley should have had the upper hand as far as finding his own hellhound.

And as that sequence led nowhere in the quest of finding or disposing of Ramsey, I can`t deem it a valuable contribution. It led nowhere and helped noone. 

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Being mute when you mean to convince someone not to kill a colleague - when another member of your team is already making a very good point, there's really no need to chime in.  

If you do nothing else of note either, than again, no teamwork in my eyes.  

This is all a question of badly structured episodes. Usually, there should be enough on a hunt to give two people something valuable to do.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

And as that sequence led nowhere in the quest of finding or disposing of Ramsey, I can`t deem it a valuable contribution. It led nowhere and helped noone. 

As is often the case in a team effort.  Still - someone needs to pursue what might be a dead end.  There is no way to know that ahead of time however.

12 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

That sure didn`t work out then.

Sure it did.  What mistake did Dean make?  He went up against what he thought was a god - with the colt.  And he told Sam to watch the sheriff - who as far as either of them knew at that point was not to be trusted.  He was able to get himself out of the saran-wrap, which was more than Sam would have been able to do.

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

If you do nothing else of note either, than again, no teamwork in my eyes.  

Dean nabbed Kelly when the entire BMoL and angels couldn't.  I think that's pretty notable.  

[catrox14]

24 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Being mute when you mean to convince someone not to kill a colleague - when another member of your team is already making a very good point, there's really no need to chime in

The problem with that is that Dean is first one who said "Screw the Code" not Sam.

As to Kelly, I think it was  Sam who actually figured out which clinic to call. Or at least he was the one who pretended to be a clinic worker and told her to come back for a follow up.  Dean was just the one who went to get her.

[Aeryn13]

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What mistake did Dean make? 

Let some punk get the drop on him and got taken out like a doofus. Managed to get his weapon stuck in the meat on the swing like a clumsy idiot. Needed to be saved. My question would be more: what did he right?

We won`t agree on this but for me Dean has had the exact same usefullness as Cas in the last few episodes. One just wasn`t onscreen to make a fool of themselves. Which I consider the better deal in the end.  

If I could, I would wish the MOC right back onto his arm. Or make it so he thinks John just died. Don`t care if he is unhappy then or if the brothers are at odds then or whatnot, I want valium!Dean to go far away and a better version to come back in his place.

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The problem with that is that Dean is first one who said "Screw the Code" not Sam.

Yup. I remember thinking "finally, he can do something in this godforsaken episode" and it actually would have played to one of the character`s established strengths. But then he inexplicably went mute because Sam did chime in. 

Edited April 18, 2017 by Aeryn13

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

If I could, I would wish the MOC right back onto his arm.

This may be an unpopular opinion but I liked MOC Dean. He was bloodthirsty but he was awesome in The Prisoner.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Let some punk get the drop on him and got taken out like a doofus. Managed to get his weapon stuck in the meat on the swing like a clumsy idiot. Needed to be saved. My question would be more: what did he right?

What can I say?  Welcome to the Sam Winchester school of teamwork?  Lol.  I kid - but only a little.  There's been plenty of times in which Sam has let a doofus get the drop on him - even in the hellhound ep, Sam wasn't smart enough to just put the car in reverse instead of getting out and then only thanks to the girl hitting the beast with the cooler was he able to get the kill.  Dean getting his weapon stuck in the FROZEN meat?  Yeah, I don't see that as clumsy idiot.  You ever tried to cut a frozen hunk of meat?  It ain't easy.  Like I said, at least Dean managed to free himself and fight back a little.  Interestingly, in the beginning of the season, when Sam got loose and almost (but not quite!) got away from Lady Needstodie the general consensus was that he was all badass.  Yet, Sam still needed to be saved in the end also.  So, I really don't see a difference in the circumstances here.  

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The problem with that is that Dean is first one who said "Screw the Code" not Sam.

As to Kelly, I think it was  Sam who actually figured out which clinic to call. Or at least he was the one who pretended to be a clinic worker and told her to come back for a follow up.  Dean was just the one who went to get her.

And I think both of those things are part of teamwork.  ymmv.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

This may be an unpopular opinion but I liked MOC Dean. He was bloodthirsty but he was awesome in The Prisoner.

I loved MoC Dean and demon!Dean.

That Mark and the First Blade would have come in handy when trying to kill Lucifer....I'm just saying

[PAForrest]

10 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

This may be an unpopular opinion but I liked MOC Dean. He was bloodthirsty but he was awesome in The Prisoner.

Unpopular? I don't think so.

Believe me, I'd give anything for someone to kill off the current variation of valium!Dean/wallpaper!Dean in favor of a return to MOC!Dean! I agree with you, that guy was awesome! At least he knew how to fight, knew how to speak up and had lines to say, could walk and chew gum at the same time, and was overall present.

Seriously, though, the last time I was hoping/begging for someone to kill off Dean Winchester was in the back-half or 2/3 of season 8 when he was reduced to playing maid/wet nurse, and ceased being a hunter then too, as he clearly has now.

The goodbye montage at the end of Regarding Dean has taken on a very poignant meaning, because as far as I've seen, Dean has been missing since then - and he wasn't all that present before that episode.

The only takeaway I have from season 12 is that I really really miss Dean Winchester, and I wonder if he'll ever return.  My fear is that he may be gone permanently.

Edited April 18, 2017 by PAForrest

[gonzosgirrl]

On 4/17/2017 at 8:43 PM, catrox14 said:

I loved MoC Dean and demon!Dean.

That Mark and the First Blade would have come in handy when trying to kill Lucifer....I'm just saying

Trying again...

You know who else would probably like MoC/Demon Dean back? Jensen.

 I have pretty much given up hope on any substantial Dean content for this season.

My most fervent wish at this point is that Dean would wake up in the courtyard where Chuck & Amara disappeared to find that the whole of S12 was a fever dream and Amara's real parting 'gift' was a lifetime subscription to Busty Asian Beauties.

Since that's unlikely to happen, I think I'm done with this season, unless and until somebody tells me there is something worthwhile for this Dean girl to tune in for.

[ILoveReading]

We have two local channels showing SPN re-reruns.  One is showing s6 and one if showing.  In a superficial way the Campbells remind me of the British Men of Letters.  They both want to use the brothers for their own purposes.

The difference is that Dean isn't rolling over and playing dead.  He was never comfortable working with Crowley or the Campbells.  He was questioning and clearly showed his distrust.  He even questioned Sam.  He was smart and observant.  (He noticed they took the Alpha out alive).  The association didn't last long.

Then Dean took matters into this own hands by going to Dr. Robert.

Same with First Born. Dean kept Crowley at arms length the whole time.   I do think he would have accepted the Mark without or without Crowley there.  Even as a demon, Dean didn't take orders. 

I just wish we could get that Dean back.   Valuim Dean isn't much fun to watch.  (Props to whoever came up with that name).

[DeeDee79]

13 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

He was never comfortable working with Crowley or the Campbells.  He was questioning and clearly showed his distrust.  He even questioned Sam.  He was smart and observant.  (He noticed they took the Alpha out alive).  The association didn't last long.

And this was all after being out of the game for a year and supposedly soft in the eyes of the Campbells. His instincts were still sharp after a year of domestic life without monsters but now for some reason they're not.

[SueB]

16 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

And this was all after being out of the game for a year and supposedly soft in the eyes of the Campbells. His instincts were still sharp after a year of domestic life without monsters but now for some reason they're not.

I don't get why people keep saying this.  I think his instincts are still sharp.  He's on edge about the BMoL. Has been every episode.  WE know more than he does but he's very cautious about them and notes each little change.  

What have they (the boys) REALLY done with BMoL? They've accepted cases and told the BMoL how they've done.  Sam asked for the Colt and in addition to getting the weapon, Mick & weenie met Eileen.  That's about all they've "given" the BMoL.  The BMoL just had to watch the bunker (stake-out style) and they could have gone in anytime and taken their photos. They also could have come in with their key (which the boys didn't realize was universal for all bunkers until the episode Mick got killed in) and attacked the boys at any time.  

Now that they know their bunker door is "open" to the BMoL, about the ONLY fault I give them is not providing additional security.  Plotonium.  Same issue that prevented them from bringing Kevin into the Bunker.  

But I don't think that one element makes Dean's instincts' off.  

Obviously Mileage Varies.  But I just don't get this particular complaint. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

I think these are okay to put here. Some of my fav vids about Dean 

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

I don't get why people keep saying this.  I think his instincts are still sharp.  He's on edge about the BMoL. Has been every episode.  WE know more than he does but he's very cautious about them and notes each little change.  

I can't speak for everyone else because I don't know who else has been saying this but I will comment on my viewpoint since you quoted my comment. Re: Dean's instincts - they may be good but there is a difference in the now and the past. It doesn't mean that he's an idiot or completely without instinct but there was an aggressiveness and confrontational edge when he dealt with shady characters that is missing in the present season. Dean would get in the face of angels, demons and he even held his own in front of Death and Cain but he's been somewhat apathetic to the presence of the BMOL which I feel is for the benefit of his brother's willingness to give them a chance. He may be on edge but there is a difference in his dealings with the potential threat IMO as compared to previous seasons.

[SueB]

Just now, DeeDee79 said:

I can't speak for everyone else because I don't know who else has been saying this but I will comment on my viewpoint since you quoted my comment. Re: Dean's instincts - they may be good but there is a difference in the now and the past. It doesn't mean that he's an idiot or completely without instinct but there was an aggressiveness and confrontational edge when he dealt with shady characters that is missing in the present season. Dean would get in the face of angels, demons and he even held his own in front of Death and Cain but he's been somewhat apathetic to the presence of the BMOL which I feel is for the benefit of his brother's willingness to give them a chance. He may be on edge but there is a difference in his dealings with the potential threat IMO as compared to previous seasons.

I see.  I thought he was pretty "in your face" with Mick in "Ladies Drink Free" but I agree he's not that way all the time.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

I see.  I thought he was pretty "in your face" with Mick in "Ladies Drink Free" but I agree he's not that way all the time.

I agree with you on this and I hope that we get more of this from him and Sam with Ketch, Lady Bevill and Dr. Hess when they pop back up.

[DittyDotDot]

50 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I can't speak for everyone else because I don't know who else has been saying this but I will comment on my viewpoint since you quoted my comment. Re: Dean's instincts - they may be good but there is a difference in the now and the past. It doesn't mean that he's an idiot or completely without instinct but there was an aggressiveness and confrontational edge when he dealt with shady characters that is missing in the present season. Dean would get in the face of angels, demons and he even held his own in front of Death and Cain but he's been somewhat apathetic to the presence of the BMOL which I feel is for the benefit of his brother's willingness to give them a chance. He may be on edge but there is a difference in his dealings with the potential threat IMO as compared to previous seasons.

I think Dean just thinks of the Brits as annoying, foolish and shady, but not threatening right now. I don't think he probably sees a reason to get up in their faces yet; they're just not worth it to him. But, I'm guessing that's gonna change once they learn of the Brits killing hunters--and I'm guessing the revelations for the soldiers and Magda will come out, too.

For me, I don't see Dean's instincts being watered down, they're just dragging the story out too long. And I think they may have showed their cards too soon with letting the audience know so much earlier in the season. We know so much more than the boys right now which makes it frustrating for us to wait until Sam and Dean catch up.  It's such a fine line to walk and I'm not sure they walked it tight enough on this one.

Edited April 24, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think Dean just thinks of the Brits as annoying, foolish and shady, but not threatening right now. I don't think he probably sees a reason to get up in their faces yet; they're just not worth it to him. But, I'm guessing that's gonna change once they learn of the Brits killing hunters--and I'm guessing the revelations for the soldiers and Magda will come out, too.

For me, I don't see Dean's instincts being watered down, they're just dragging the story out too long. And I think they may have showed their cards too soon with letting the audience know so much earlier in the season. We know so much more than the boys right now which makes it frustrating for us to wait until Sam and Dean catch up.  It's such a fine line to walk and I'm not sure they walked it tight enough on this one.

Bingo.

[auntvi]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Mick & weenie

I like that. That smart-ass kid really was a weenie.

[PAForrest]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think these are okay to put here. Some of my fav vids about Dean 

Scarlet always did an outstanding job with her Dean vids. So beautiful, full of heart and pain and emotion.

I'm not even sure she watches the show anymore.

[Pondlass1]

I follow Scarlet on twitter.  I loved her videos too.  From her tweets I get the impression the thrill has gone and she's moved on.  She enjoys badass Dean and he's pretty much left the building.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Pondlass1
typo

[PAForrest]

21 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I follow Scarlet on twitter.  I loved her videos too.  From her tweets I get the impression the thrill has gone and she's moved on.  She enjoys badass Dean and he's pretty much left the building.

Yeah, that's what I've surmised from her twitter feed as well. A real loss, but she's certainly not alone.

[Boopsahoy]

I don't think this season is boring just....calm. I mean Sam and Dean are pretty much on the same page (not fighting) and neither one of them has something supernatural wrong with them so its not angst all the time. I actually like that for a change. I like to watch them together and pretty much agreeing on everything or at least willing to give the others point of view a chance. Theyre not 20 somethings anymore-they have matured and I like it most of the time. I like that Dean is pissed at Mary (as he should be) and I like that Sam tries to keep the peace. Maybe I'm just boring!

[SueB]

23 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I follow Scarlet on twitter.  I loved her videos too.  From her tweets I get the impression the thrill has gone and she's moved on.  She enjoys badass Dean and he's pretty much left the building.

She (and you) may have that opinion, I do not.  If MoC Dean is the now the new "required level of badass" then I think that's a misaligned expectation.  

Particular badass moments this season:
- Liam Neeson- class threating of Lady McTorture along with phone breakage
- "Turns out this ape did read a book" take down of Lady Tony
-  Killing Hitler - "Heil This"
- Diving through the "door portal" in Asa Fox and getting the better of the demon in a fight
- Just about EVERY scene in First Blood, with special mention for the walkie talkie taunt and the take down of two soldiers on the side of the house
- Fight with Ramiel - Sam has the knife, Mary has an Angel Blade, Dean goes in with angelic brass knuckles -- and then switches to a shovel
- Dean with Lucille-like-bat and list of monsters killed (no we didn't see it, but it's pretty clear that if he walked into a room looking like that and was mad at a person, most sane people would proceed to pee their pants).
- Dean trapping Mick with the double-interrogation and then telling Mick he knows he killed Hannah
 

Now, IMO, Dean generally looks and acts like a badass in every episode.  He only has those cool "reinforcements" of the image in some episodes (see list above).

So... Is Dean failing to be a BadAss OR is this a "but Sam did cool things too" comparison issue?  

IMO, Dean is:
- Not on Valium -- and people saying it 10 times doesn't make it so
- Demonstrating he's still a badass on a routine basis
- Killing what needs to be killed, letting those live who should

[DittyDotDot]

20 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

I don't think this season is boring just....calm. I mean Sam and Dean are pretty much on the same page (not fighting) and neither one of them has something supernatural wrong with them so its not angst all the time. I actually like that for a change. I like to watch them together and pretty much agreeing on everything or at least willing to give the others point of view a chance. Theyre not 20 somethings anymore-they have matured and I like it most of the time. I like that Dean is pissed at Mary (as he should be) and I like that Sam tries to keep the peace. Maybe I'm just boring!

Taking my response to the All Episodes thread...

[Myrelle]

44 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

I don't think this season is boring just....calm. I mean Sam and Dean are pretty much on the same page (not fighting) and neither one of them has something supernatural wrong with them so its not angst all the time. I actually like that for a change. I like to watch them together and pretty much agreeing on everything or at least willing to give the others point of view a chance. Theyre not 20 somethings anymore-they have matured and I like it most of the time. I like that Dean is pissed at Mary (as he should be) and I like that Sam tries to keep the peace. Maybe I'm just boring!

I responded in the jerk/bitch thread just to be safe. I think there are still too many unresolved issues between them that have been swept under the carpet in order to keep the calm and peace; and I find that to be a cop-out by the writers just to keep some in the fandom happy and the hell with the story and lives of these two characters who once seemed very real and layered and rich and human to me, but have now become more caricatures of real people AND of the original characters that were first presented and represented to us on this show, too.

[ILoveReading]

27 minutes ago, SueB said:

She (and you) may have that opinion, I do not.  If MoC Dean is the now the new "required level of badass" then I think that's a misaligned expectation.

Responding in bitch/jerk

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, Boopsahoy said:

I like that Dean is pissed at Mary (as he should be) ...

But is he really? Of the can-count-them-on-one-hand moments I've liked from season 12, there was that time Dean was allowed to be rightfully pissed and called her "Mary", because she frankly doesn't deserve to be called "mom" since she doesn't want to play that role anyway. But, of course, like the other time he got to be mad at Mary - again, for utterly deserved reasons - you knew he'd cave at the end and did, because Dean always has to cave to keep the peace. So I find those moments more annoying than not since every time it happens we already know SOP dictates Dean will not be allowed to hang onto his anger and will have to apologize and take it all back. 

[Myrelle]

Quote

I think it's been a nice change of pace that, despite that everything isn't perfect in Dean's life, the weight and guilt to be lifted from Dean this year. I feel like we're seeing Dean actually happy--more or less--for the first time. 

Brought over from the bitterness thread

I disagree. He seems to be going through the motions where it applies to almost every aspect of his life to me, and moreso than in any other season before. I think that his disappointment with and in Mary's lack in pretty much the exact same parental areas that John lacked, has made him more nihilistic than he's ever been before. And he's hurt and angry, too, but he doesn't feel like he has a right to be hurt or angry or feel those types of feelings, so he's doing what he's always done and practically become an expert at-he's suppressing them. I can't and don't believe for one minute that all of that hurt and anger that we got in that one speech at the beginning of that one episode just went poof! and was gone like that even though he apologized to Mother Mary by the end of it. No way. Not IMO, anyway.

Dean does not seem happy at all to me. I'm seeing and feeling far more suppressed anger and hurt in and from him than happiness; somewhat similar to how he was in the beginning of S2, but with the one big difference being that even his job/the hunt isn't helping him to cope this time around.

[ILoveReading]

15 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Brought over from the bitterness thread

I disagree. He seems to be going through the motions where it applies to almost every aspect of his life to me, and moreso than in any other season before. I think that his disappointment with and in Mary's lack in pretty much the exact same parental areas that John lacked, has made him more nihilistic than he's ever been before. And he's hurt and angry, too, but he doesn't feel like he has a right to be hurt or angry or feel those types of feelings, so he's doing what he's always done and practically become an expert at-he's suppressing them. I can't and don't believe for one minute that all of that hurt and anger that we got in that one speech at the beginning of that one episode just went poof! and was gone like that even though he apologized to Mother Mary by the end of it. No way. Not IMO, anyway.

Dean does not seem happy at all to me. I'm seeing and feeling far more suppressed anger and hurt in and from him than happiness; somewhat similar to how he was in the beginning of S2, but with the one big difference being that even his job/the hunt isn't helping him to cope this time around.

Agree.  He's been rejected the person he  most held dear, his best friend betrayed him 3 times in this episode alone, his brother lied to him, and he has to work with an organization he dislikes and doesn't trust.  He doesn't even know about Crowley yet.    The best word I can use to describe Dean is resigned.  He's not questioning anything, he didn't even notice his picture was missing or anything amiss in his room or at the bunker.  He's drifting from hunt to hunt and barely participating.  When he actually shows up he's making dumb mistakes and is generally inept.

He also looks tired and worn out. 

One thing I noticed, when Cas comes to his room, there is an empty bottle of Jack on the desk.  Not usually a sign that Dean is in a good place.

I just hope its all leading somewhere.

I do  have mixed feelings about Dean going off.  I think more than any character Dean needs space, but at the same time, I don't want him to go off and then something bad happens to everyone else.  He doesn't not need more guilt piled onto his shoulders.

[Wayward Son]

20 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Brought over from the bitterness thread

I disagree. He seems to be going through the motions where it applies to almost every aspect of his life to me, and moreso than in any other season before. I think that his disappointment with and in Mary's lack in pretty much the exact same parental areas that John lacked, has made him more nihilistic than he's ever been before. And he's hurt and angry, too, but he doesn't feel like he has a right to be hurt or angry or feel those types of feelings, so he's doing what he's always done and practically become an expert at-he's suppressing them. I can't and don't believe for one minute that all of that hurt and anger that we got in that one speech at the beginning of that one episode just went poof! and was gone like that even though he apologized to Mother Mary by the end of it. No way. Not IMO, anyway.

Dean does not seem happy at all to me. I'm seeing and feeling far more suppressed anger and hurt in and from him than happiness; somewhat similar to how he was in the beginning of S2, but with the one big difference being that even his job/the hunt isn't helping him to cope this time around.

I just want to be clear that I'm in no way trying to deny Dean's right to feel angry and betrayed by the ones he loves, but my question is; has Dean really been suppressing those feelings?

Off the top of my head, during this weeks episode he was pretty upfront with Castiel about the anger and worry his disappearing act caused, and he showed a similar level of anger later in the episode when they find him after he found the Colt. Earlier in the season, during Lily Sunders Has No Regrets,  he has no issues with expressing his anger and worry over Castiel's decision to kill Billie.

In addition to this, Dean also had no issues with telling Sam that he needed to pick a side during The Raid. Then there was his speech to Mary during the same episode.

I am not trying to deny Dean's right to feel the way he feels. I'm just pointing that IMO he has expressed said feelings especially towards Castiel. 

[Myrelle]

But not Mary. He hasn't really been allowed to be angry with Mary or to voice his hurt and pain over her doing the exact same thing that John did to them all of their lives after she died. She's the one that he likely feels the need to have it out with(and especially over that) more than anyone else this season.

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

He's been rejected the person he  most held dear, his best friend betrayed him 3 times in this episode alone, his brother lied to him, and he has to work with an organization he dislikes and doesn't trust.  He doesn't even know about Crowley yet.

But, Dean's not internalizing it like he has in the past. It's not weighing him down. He's just living in the moment more now instead of dwelling on everything that's wrong, IMO.

30 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

And he's hurt and angry, too, but he doesn't feel like he has a right to be hurt or angry or feel those types of feelings, so he's doing what he's always done and practically become an expert at-he's suppressing them.

I disagree. He doesn't seem to be suppressing anything lately, which is why I think he's in a good place right now. He was open with Mary instead of shouldering it like he used to with John. He's been clear with Sam he doesn't trust or like the Brits, but they don't seem to be bothering him all that much either. And, he was honest and open with Cass instead of giving him the silent treatment like he's done in the past. He's not letting these things fester like they have in the past. I like it, myself.