S02.E02: 202

[blixie]

 

Even towards the lower end of the rental market, he still needs more than the advance.

 

If he wants to find a place in Manhattan sure, but if he goes to Brooklyn/Queens he can certainly find someplace he can afford. Allison's place in Montauk is probably worth a good sum, I'd assume it's worth several million even if she had to split out with Cole,  and he could certainly find work with his connections and degree, he'd need at most three bedrooms and 1 for the boys to share and one for the girls. 

 

 

I don't understand the timeline.

 

There have always been TWO time lines the Flashback timeline that began when they met in the diner, and a Flash Forward present/future timeline where a murder has taken place, immediately following a wedding. 

 

It is ONLY in the present/future timeline that Noah is married to Allison, and they are financially well off, with a bestselling book, a great apartment, and a baby. He's just as arrested as he was at the end of S1 Flash Forward, and Helen has offered him the services of her families lawyer that is YET AND STILL way more than even he in all his recent/new found success can afford. 

 

Flashback Noah has just altered the ending to his soon to be best-selling novel to the chagrin of his editor/publisher, he's living in Coldwater Springs? NY with Allison, while he's been writing/polishing the novel. He's been given a 400K advance, and is in mediation with Helen about their divorce. 

 

 

So Noah is arrested after he gets rich from his novel Descent yet Helen is paying for his lawyer?

 

Yes, because even though he's rich, he's not RICH ENOUGH to afford Toby Ziegler.I also suspect this is a bit of collusion between Helen/Noah re: who really killed Scotty (potentially Whitney or Martin). It's way to stay on the same page of protecting the kids from suspicion. 

[Boundary]

There have always been TWO time lines the Flashback timeline that began when they met in the diner, and a Flash Forward present/future timeline where a murder has taken place, immediately following a wedding. 

 

Precisely. Compared to last season finale, both timelines have just shifted forward a little. I think that was a great choice by the writers. Instead of fully jumping forward to the trial timeline, we are given the chance to explore the early stages of the relationship as well and how the former spouses handled the divorces. 

 

Even though we (the viewers) know that Alison and Noah will eventually get married, have a kid and become relatively well off, there's still a period of uncertainty over their relationship as far as they are concerned. They don't know yet if they will make it, they have just busted their marriages on this gamble and will have to ask themselves if it was worth it; it should be fun seeing them figure it out. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by Boundary

[truthaboutluv]

No way would she have been allowed in there

 

 

In the scenario we do see the lawyer saying to the officer that Helen is his legal assistant, so that presumably is how she was allowed in. 

 

So in season 2, Noah is struggling financially, hasn't gotten his novel finished yet.  He gets a lawyer paid for by Helen.  But before he gets the lawyer, the black detective is advising him to take a plea.

 

 

Noah has already finished his novel and is married to Alison when he presumably gets the lawyer paid by Helen. The timeline can be a bit confusing but the easiest way to explain is that everything with the legal case is present time where Noah's book has long been released and he and Alison are married with a baby. Everything when Noah is still finishing his novel, living in the lake house and all that stuff is in the past, during the immediate months after he left Helen and they were going through the divorce. 

[Ellaria]

I agree that it was Helen's memory that Noah couldn't afford an attorney. Not only that, but Helen swooped in to rescue him as he was being taken advantage of by the attorney. Helen also stood by, pale and tragic, and supervised the entire event. No way would she have been allowed in there - so I automatically discount much of her version. Along with her memory of offering to set Noah up in an expensive four bedroom home, her memories make Noah financially emasculated, and unable to care for himself legally, to the extent he'd never even gotten a public defender. Which again makes me discount part of her story.

I also agree, from upthread, that all of Alison's versions show her life is about constant fear. Being afraid and "playing victim" are not the same thing. She also recalls herself as typically timid and unsure, and often powerless - all unflattering or negative, and not something to exaggerate to make yourself look better.

Cole's look at the end ....... Hm. I watched it first, and thought there was something very sinister, yet he also looked speculative...

 

Yes, in Helen's view, Noah cannot afford the expensive attorney. Helen's family money was always the fall-back solution to her problems with Noah. This situation is no different. In Helen's view, Noah still needs something from her...money. Whether that is true or not, remains to be seen.

 

Alison always portrays herself as powerless. We see very little from her that enforces a belief in self worth. Of course, she gets a blister when walking to town and has a big sweat stain on the front of her dress when Cole shows up. It seems logical for her to feel that the fancy, expensive lawyer hired by her husband's wealthy ex-wife would treat her dismissively.

 

The one thing that appears to be factual is that Helen hired a powerful attorney to help Noah. Why? Money - or lack of - may not be the answer. (Since there is no precise definition of "rich," trying to determine whether or not Noah could actually afford this attorney may not provide answers.) Instead, maybe there is another reason for Helen's interference. Perhaps involvement of one of their children, as suggested upthread?

 

As far as Cole's "look" at the end...it may be too early to draw conclusions but I agree that there is something sinister there. I think that money/wealth/power is as much a theme of this show as desire and self-fulfillment. And when all of that is thrown into the mix together, it can be a dangerous.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[scrb]

I hope they continue with the plot about Helen's father.  Like the actor, he does a great job at playing assholes, not just the one in this show but in Homicide.

 

Don't really buy that his former lover would go back with him after 40 years though.  It must be the money.

[RedheadZombie]

Elaborating on Cole's "looks", even if he wasn't specifically thinking he could get Alison back, he saw a way for Noah to lose his wife and child, just like Cole did.  So if Cole knows the real killer (presuming it's not Noah), keeping quiet will rob Noah of what Cole lost.  Total speculation, and assuming that JJ was projecting the emotions the scene called for.

 

Did anyone think that Noah's dream looked like a woman in a white gown?

 

Edited because Cole and Noah are not the same - just ask Alison.

Edited October 14, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[Ellaria]

Did anyone think that Noah's dream looked like a woman in a white gown?

 

Yes, a dark haired woman in a white dress (or gown).  Did the hit-and-run happen on the same night of someone's wedding? And we don't know who got married, right? 

[SlackerInc]

 

Heh.  I have never listened to Scriptnotes, by the way. 

 

Succinctly put! There's a difference between "I can't afford you" meaning:  I can't afford legal representation.  And "I can't afford you."  Meaning that particular lawyer. 

 

You should definitely try Scriptnotes.  Fascinating podcast.

 

I agree that it was Helen's memory that Noah couldn't afford an attorney. Not only that, but Helen swooped in to rescue him as he was being taken advantage of by the attorney. Helen also stood by, pale and tragic, and supervised the entire event. No way would she have been allowed in there - so I automatically discount much of her version. Along with her memory of offering to set Noah up in an expensive four bedroom home, her memories make Noah financially emasculated, and unable to care for himself legally, to the extent he'd never even gotten a public defender. Which again makes me discount part of her story.

 

This makes the most sense to me.  Stillshimpy argues that he wasn't saying he couldn't afford any lawyer, just not this lawyer, and I don't think anyone was ever disputing that.  But I agree with Boundary that we are meant to see Noah as being successful, so this kind of hairsplitting strikes me as bad writing if that's actually what they intended.  I think it makes far more sense that they intend Helen to think he is not successful enough to pay the lawyer.  Although that doesn't explain why Alison also seems to remember Helen paying for the lawyer.  Have we seen Noah's perspective on this?

[stillshimpy]

Have we seen Noah's perspective on this?

 

No.  What we saw from Noah was listening to Detective McEagerpants (god knows what his name is, but I don't) trying to twist him into a confession, like Noah's a wet-behind-the-ears teen who didn't just write a successful novel about a crime (for the love of god that was funny ...."Uh, Detective?  I think you missed a key piece of evidence about your suspect...?" ) and Noah listening quietly, and then leaning towards him and saying, "I . Want. A. Fucking. Lawyer."  

 

Which was one of the times I liked Noah. 

[RedheadZombie]

It seemed to me that Cole's version of Alison's house was much shabbier than either Alison's or Noah's last season. Not because it's not being lived in, but it almost looked like a shack. Did I imagine that?

[SlackerInc]

When Alison had just come back from her retreat with her mom, she went over there (just before the whole confrontation with the gun happened) and complimented Cole on how nice he had it fixed up.  I'm not sure how much time has passed since then, and there is as you say the complication of different people's perspectives, but it definitely looks like it has either deteriorated as Cole has deteriorated, or Cole remembers it as more of a rundown dump than Alison did.

[meep.meep]

 

As far as Cole's "look" at the end...it may be too early to draw conclusions but I agree that there is something sinister there. I think that money/wealth/power is as much a theme of this show as desire and self-fulfillment. And when all of that is thrown into the mix together, it can be a dangerous.

 

I saw Cole's look in the final scene as a call back to what he did when his part of the episode started:  pointing a finger gun at Noah and pulling the trigger.  It may have taken a few years, but he finally got him where he wants him.

[izabella]

I saw Cole's look in the final scene as a call back to what he did when his part of the episode started:  pointing a finger gun at Noah and pulling the trigger.  It may have taken a few years, but he finally got him where he wants him.

 

I agree.  Cole is making the mistake a lot of betrayed spouses make - they put all the blame on the affair partner for "stealing" their spouse, and discount the fact that no one can "steal" a spouse away and that the spouse put on their running shoes in the first place.  Even if Noah is convicted or dies or anything, Allison STILL will not go back to Cole because she was done with that relationship, period.

[blixie]

 

Cole is making the mistake a lot of betrayed spouses make - they put all the blame on the affair partner for "stealing" their spouse

 

Yes I'm sure none of Cole's glare in that scene has anything to do with the fact that Noah has been charged with MURDERING his brother. Like C'MON he can glare the fuck away all day long, and take whatever measure of satisfaction he needs in Noah's suffering.

Edited October 15, 2015 by blixie

[izabella]

Yes I'm sure none of Cole's glare in that scene has anything to do with the fact that Noah has been charged with MURDERING his brother. Like C'MON he can glare the fuck away all day long, and take whatever measure of satisfaction he needs in Noah's suffering.

 

If he believes Noah did it, I'm sure that adds to it.  But we don't know what he believes.  For all we know, Cole killed his brother himself, accidentally or otherwise.  Cole was shown driving while asleep and fueled on cocaine, so who knows?  He might have run his brother over while falling asleep at the wheel.

 

It doesn't change the fact that Cole has been giving Allison a pass all along, and blaming Noah entirely.  Oh, yeah, then there was that gun Cole was waving around.  I like Cole better than Noah and Allison put together, but I won't give him a pass for his failings either.

Edited October 15, 2015 by izabella

[blixie]

 

t I won't give him a pass for his failings either.

 

I won't either but I don't think Cole glaring down the man charged with his brother's murder, who also happened to fuck his wife is a failing. 

 

 

But we don't know what he believes.

 

Well we were actually within his POV at the time, and what he was witnessing was Noah being charged with Scotty's murder, I think it's weird to attribute his stare downs as being entirely about  Allison leaving him for Noah (which I agree he knows is not true, she made it clear she left him long before Noah showed up, and would have left even if she didn't have Noah to go to).

I hope the relatively cleaned up Cole, who warmly greeted Allison and her daughter, and who someone said had a wedding ring on has emotionally moved past the affair, but I'm cool with him still pretty much being like what the fuck ever about/towards Noah, that is not a dude he ever has to like. 

[Ellaria]

If he believes Noah did it, I'm sure that adds to it.  But we don't know what he believes.

 

Precisely... we don't know what he believes or what he really did. In his world view, he showed up in court looking neat and composed, greeting Alison and her child with warmth. Its in his view that we see the sinister look. IMO, this is about how Cole needs to portray himself because it informs his future choices and decisions. Something that I constantly remind myself of when watching this show: a person's self-judgment is not the truth.

 

Cole's appearance in court isn't in Alison's memory of that day so there is no objective way to interpret his 'look" at the arraignment, at this point.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[scrb]

How did Cole's family lose the ranch?  They were busted for dealing coke?

 

Actually, they would be in prison, not just have their ranch confiscated.

 

Was it that the mother had a lot of debt on the ranch and they couldn't pay so the bank took it?

[truthaboutluv]

How did Cole's family lose the ranch?  They were busted for dealing coke?

 

Actually, they would be in prison, not just have their ranch confiscated.

 

Was it that the mother had a lot of debt on the ranch and they couldn't pay so the bank took it?

 

It was the latter. I'm pretty sure they never got busted for the coke dealing. 

 

It doesn't change the fact that Cole has been giving Allison a pass all along, and blaming Noah entirely.

 

 

 

You know, I have never been cheated on but this makes sense to me. Not so much giving the spouse a pass but hating the person they cheated with. Yes "no one can steal someone from you unless they want to leave and all that..." but the reality is even when hurt by a spouse who has cheated, the cheated on spouse still has a history with that person, making it harder to just hate them. 

 

I personally hold both Noah and Alison accountable and hate them both.  However, I can see why Cole still loves or loved Alison and hated Noah. Because despite everything, to him Alison is still the woman he's known almost his whole life, loved for most of his adult life and shared a child with. Those things don't just go away for some people. On the flip-side, he doesn't know Noah at all other than a guy who fucked his wife and left his own wife and four kids. Why wouldn't he hate and feel nothing but disdain for this man?

 

It's similar to how some viewers passed so much judgement on Helen last season, when she referred to Alison as some waitress because it was in their view more evidence of the snob Helen is. And maybe that is true but in my opinion, that made sense. Because asshat though Noah is, to Helen he's the man she loved for so many years, shared a life with for almost 20 years, shared four children with. Yes he hurt her but it was hard to just turn all that off. Meanwhile she knows nothing about Alison other than she is some waitress who fucked her husband in their bed. Again, why wouldn't she hate her and think nothing kind about her?

 

The fact is in these situations, to the spouse who has been cheated on, the woman or guy is simply the person their spouse cheated with. They don't know them as a person or as anything more. So it's very easy to just hate them and direct all their hurt and anger at that person. Again, ymmv, fair or not, that makes perfect sense to me.

Edited October 15, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[izabella]

Oh it absolutely makes perfect sense, and is a perfectly natural reaction and perspective!  It would be a rare person who wouldn't feel hatred toward the affair partner, I think.  But dwelling on that perspective becomes a problem if the betrayed can't let it go, and worse if they are thirsting for revenge.  At some point, they have to deal with the issue and resolve it one way or another with the person who cheated on them - their spouse.  That's who is most accountable for the state of their marriage.  Whether the couple reconciles or divorces, the betrayed spouse needs to accept that their partner chose to have an affair, face the fact that their spouse ISN'T who they used to be anymore. 

 

It would do Cole some good to knock Allison off the pedestal he's had her on and see her as the real person she is, a person who wants and chose to take her life in a different direction and her reasons for it.  That, in effect, makes Noah himself irrelevant and should dampen Cole's revenge thirst.  And that's a step toward healing.  Allison was going to do what she was going to do, whether it was Noah she fell in love with, or someone else, or whether she found the nerve to get out of her marriage on her own and more honestly.  Cole will never heal if he can't acknowledge and accept that.  He'll just keep festering in hatred over Noah.

Edited October 15, 2015 by izabella

[truthaboutluv]

In fairness we don't actually know that Cole has some huge revenge plot or simmering revenge hatred for Noah. The shot of him making the gun signal with his fingers was in the immediate months after Alison left, when he came to give her her stuff. When we see him again at the courthouse, more than a year at least has passed, since we're on present time where Alison and Noah got married and had a child together.

 

Yes there was the look at the end that many have their own interpretations of but all we really know, in as much truth as we can get out of these people's memories, is that in the immediate months after Alison left, Cole spiraled with the heavy drinking, not sleeping, using cocaine to stay awake. But other than bringing her her stuff, they apparently had no interaction with each other. And then in present time he showed up at the court house where Noah is being arraigned for running down his brother. He was pleasant to Alison and then had an inexplicable look on his face after the judge set Noah's bail very high. That's it...

[stillshimpy]

Precisely... we don't know what he believes or what he really did. In his world view, he showed up in court looking neat and composed, greeting Alison and her child with warmth.

 

I thought Allison greeted him with a reasonable level of warmth "Cole, hello.  I'm so sorry about your brother" or something like that, and that Cole greeted her with a level of composure that came off closer to ....contained....not warm, not cool.  He was warm towards her little girl, but you know, mostly people can bring themselves to be kind to a completely blameless kid.  Cole didn't look happy or unhappy to see Allison, or warm, or cool either.  At least not to my eye, he was as neutral as he's ever been towards her.  

 

But if Cole believes that Noah did kill Scotty, then that "He never blamed Allison" thing probably was going out the window as he stared at her as Noah was led away.  At that point, he might reasonably be thinking, "You brought this man into our lives."   

 

But it's impossible for me to say right now, because that was not a vacant stare, it could be read in a number of ways, almost none of them "friendly" though. 

[RedheadZombie]

I agree. That was an extended close up and his face changed expressions a couple of times. It was meant to be very meaningful, it involved Alison, and I don't believe it's as simplistic as - he killed my brother and I hate him.

[izabella]

I thought Allison greeted him with a reasonable level of warmth "Cole, hello.  I'm so sorry about your brother" or something like that, and that Cole greeted her with a level of composure that came off closer to ....contained....not warm, not cool.  He was warm towards her little girl, but you know, mostly people can bring themselves to be kind to a completely blameless kid.  Cole didn't look happy or unhappy to see Allison, or warm, or cool either.  At least not to my eye, he was as neutral as he's ever been towards her. 

 

That was such an interesting moment.  I have to think it was very hard for Cole to see Allison with a child in her arms, her child with another man.  I would have expected a more complicated and awkward greeting, under the circumstances, but both Cole and Allison seemed composed.

[RedheadZombie]

 

But if Cole believes that Noah did kill Scotty, then that "He never blamed Allison" thing probably was going out the window as he stared at her as Noah was led away.  At that point, he might reasonably be thinking, "You brought this man into our lives."   

But is that reasonable? Alison had nothing to do with Scotty knocking up Whitney - which would be Noah's motive. That was ongoing before Alison and Noah had sex for the first time. The majority of the blame, since he was an adult, was on Scotty. What a useless brother, son, and boyfriend.

That was such an interesting moment.  I have to think it was very hard for Cole to see Allison with a child in her arms, her child with another man.  I would have expected a more complicated and awkward greeting, under the circumstances, but both Cole and Allison seemed composed.

I NEED to see that scene through Alison's eyes. Does she see herself as awkward with her baby as he does? What does she make of his facial expressions in court? I feel it's essential to show that through another prism. Since Cole tends to idealize her, what's a more accurate impression of those scenes.

[SlackerInc]

Oh it absolutely makes perfect sense, and is a perfectly natural reaction and perspective!  It would be a rare person who wouldn't feel hatred toward the affair partner, I think.  But dwelling on that perspective becomes a problem if the betrayed can't let it go, and worse if they are thirsting for revenge.  At some point, they have to deal with the issue and resolve it one way or another with the person who cheated on them - their spouse.  That's who is most accountable for the state of their marriage. 

 

This.  I've had friends who questioned the fact that I have never had any compunctions about flirting with someone I was interested in, even if I knew they were in a relationship.  I always maintained, and still believe, that the relationship was between the two of them, and it was not my responsibility to safeguard its sanctity.

 

I agree. That was an extended close up and his face changed expressions a couple of times. It was meant to be very meaningful, it involved Alison, and I don't believe it's as simplistic as - he killed my brother and I hate him.

 

I'm glad you mentioned that it involved Alison.  I don't see how such an intense stare toward Alison (not toward Noah) can be interpreted as all about Noah.  Am I the only one who fears for Alison's safety, and maybe even her daughter's?

[stillshimpy]

But is that reasonable? Alison had nothing to do with Scotty knocking up Whitney - which would be Noah's motive. That was ongoing before Alison and Noah had sex for the first time. The majority of the blame, since he was an adult, was on Scotty. What a useless brother, son, and boyfriend.

 

But the reason that Noah ends up knowing who Scotty is, where to find him, etc. does have to do with Alison.  Of course Noah isn't to blame for Scotty's actions and frankly, Cole clinging to some "It was all your fault" would not be the stuff of absolute reason -- that wasn't the best word choice on my part -- "understandably" would have been a better one.   Whether or not it is completely logical and reasonable, because it is not, it would be understandable if Cole was sitting there thinking "You brought this man into our lives" .   Or any other number of things. 

 

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure that Cole would be all that broken up about his brother, who the story is taking some care to paint as just a predatory guy, willing to take advantage wherever he goes.  

 

The woman I thought Noah saw in his nightmare looked like Whitney.  Slight, dark-haired and seemingly in a dress.  

 

As for Cole killing Scotty and then somehow managing to frame him, I doubt it.  Cole's clearly a guy who has made his own series of mistakes.  In his memories, he sees himself as a nearly catastrophic wreck of a man, in the wake of his marriage breaking down.  He made his own series of terrible choices and many of them seemed to be about what he felt his obligations to his family were.  His memory of Scotty is of a man who was just one of the bigger creeps around, yelling at Cole about wanting proceeds from the sale of Alison's family home.  

 

If Cole is meant to be in any kind of recovery, I think it's post-clarity look on a lot of issues. But that doesn't need to be a hostile thing.  For all we know it is far closer to just thinking about the time of his life that was just one train-wreck atop another.  I think he's pretty clearly involved with the Nanny (a show rarely takes time to have an attractive woman walk-on and have one of the principal players take note of her, try to engage her in dialogue -- which is the costly thing for any TV show speaking parts are rarely random -- and then have that same character continue to watch her for a moment) and he presumably isn't a heartbroken, depressed, nearly transient, coke-snorting, beer-swilling puddle of despair. 

 

My husband and I have known each other for 19 years and been married for 16.  Three years before he ever clapped eyes on me, he had his heart completely broken by a woman we both still know (I got to know her after I met my husband, she actually lives in a different country now) , at the time she left, I think he would have said ti was the worst thing to ever happen to him.  When I met him, it was still clearly a bit of a sore spot -- it hurts to be left -- and now he'd tell you that looking back, he thinks it was the wisest call on her part.  They weren't well-suited to one another, she's a near-nomad, permanent artist type (and is actually the person I referenced as having worked on costumes for films)  and she's a lot of fun to this day, but -- bottom line -- not a pairing that was going to work for any longer than the 3 year period they were together, when they were both in their early twenties.   

 

They've already made it clear that Cole isn't a saint, that was clear last year, and he rationalized a lot of things in the name of family (dude, once you are selling freaking cocaine in your supposedly beloved community....you are the corruption you claim to hate) but that doesn't make him a villain either.   We still don't know whose version of the gun moment is closer to true -- and I found it hilarious that Whitney's yelling about how Cole pulled a gun on her still didn't shed any light on the moment, because it just seemed to mean that she felt like she was the center of that moment....as did Allison, as did Noah  -- and honestly, maybe was thinking back through all of that, where no one comes out looking like a saint.  

 

I mean, issues of fidelity aside for a moment, most people have had some form of chaos visited upon them in their lives.  An accidental death (Gabriel) , trying times that make you do something you never thought you would do -- because an interesting issue with Cole is that I think he was betraying who he thought he was in the name of family, and that's tough stuff to know about oneself too -- and it's hard to say what someone would think when looking back at those times, but pretty much it's always going to be uncomfortable. 

 

I have an ex-husband, who has been my ex-husband for so long, I barely remember anything other than the broadest details of being married to him anyway.   I do know though that we were both the worst versions of ourselves at the time.  That's often the way of dissolving relationships though, with or without infidelity being a factor (it wasn't in our divorce) .  

 

And I think that a lot of that last moment with Cole is likely to contain that kind of layering, from a dramatic standpoint:  When he's looking at Alison, he's likely not thinking solely of Alison in that moment, or at that time but of all that came before, who she was and who he has been.  I've no idea what those thoughts would be, but just knowing the story up until this point?  I do think it's safe to say that it would be a deeply uncomfortable thing to contemplate.  

 

Treem has been on record as saying she was surprised by the outrage directed at Noah and Alison, because she had thought that there would be outrage over the differences in gender perspectives.  I think the thing she didn't realize was that no one was likely to assign "this is how all men view women" "this is how all women view men" when only given a single POV from either gender.   That's why I think expanding to include Cole and Helen is such a good idea and will hopefully give Treem a chance to tell the tale she was hoping to tell without it being about "absolute bad guys" or "absolutely saints" .   

 

It would be cool if Helen had found someone who would actually love her.  It would be nice if Cole was happy and had moved on, which actually seems to be the case.  We're clearly not there yet in any sort of final fashion because the story is still in progress.  I just think that the story is going to be more interesting if Cole has achieved a level of emotional detachment from Alison, but even more so if he's come to understand how incredibly unhealthy everything surrounding his family and attempts to cling to that millstone of a ranch were.  

Edited October 16, 2015 by stillshimpy

[Milburn Stone]

At first I was, "How could even their respective memories of their clothing be so different?" (Doesn't matter which scene you pick, and between which two people, radical differences crop up in the memories of even these sort of mundane factual details.) But then I realized that if you asked me to remember an emotionally important conversation from just one day ago, and you told me that part of what I was supposed to fill in for you was the clothing worn by the other person, I'd have no clue. I have no idea today--no idea whatsoever--what my wife wore yesterday, what any friend I encountered wore yesterday. I'd have to make it up. Sure, I'd invent something, but it would be purely an invention.

 

Given that, the truly unbelievable thing would be if these character's memories matched up with one another.

 

I agree with stillshimpy (I think it was she) who said the great thing about this season isn't even to do with the story. It's the way the show confronts us with the unreliability of our own memories. 

[WaltersHair]

I thought Cole's long look was him finally putting together that he might be the father of that kid. Obviously, I was the only one who went there. And I thought she told the police interrogator last season she had to go pick up her son?

 

I can see this is a show where tiny, essential details can be missed.

 

And I don't hate Noah. I don't necessarily like him, but I don't hate him either. There are plenty of unlikable characters to go around.

[RedheadZombie]

I don't think Alison mentioned a nanny to the detective. I think she referred to a "sitter".

[Artsda]

Interesting that in Alison's version when Cole appeared she was wearing a dress, was sweaty, walked miles from town, had blisters but in Cole's she looked happy, peaceful and great. Taxi vs truck, bike vs no bike, fixing the toliet vs not, hugging and coffee vs angry and mean. Cole giving her the baby box which she put away. That would be something Noah could find, as well the bike. Also have the lady that owns the house mention she saw Cole to Noah that could give the timeline away.

 

Helen's father really has no clue about people who even live in his own town. Thinking Cole came from Idaho or was some tourist who moved in recently.Who was the little boy going into their house that Cole almost ran over? The boy went into the house and the girl was the sitter. 

 

Love seeing Toby Ziegler as the lawyer. 

[Armchair Critic]

Nobody else was suspicious because the baby's coloring was like Oscar's?

[myname2use4now]

I know that Cole's look has been described as "sinister"....and I agree, that was some look! But to me, it also appeared that a light bulb had gone off for him. In my view, Cole knows something of this situation that we have yet to put together. And I was surprised at how vulnerable Alison looked with her child in that moment. Based on Cole's look, I can't wait to see what happens next. Just give Joshua Jackson all the awards he's due...he earned them all with that look!

[stillshimpy]

Nobody else was suspicious because the baby's coloring was like Oscar's?

 

Not unless they are going to pretend that Alison is a Sebacean from Farscape and can keep an embryo dormant until such time as she allows it to gestate.   The timing wouldn't work for that.  

 

Also, whereas the little girl has Oscar's coloring, that's the exact thing as having Alison's coloring.  

 

The timeline -- which I admit is often so oddly conveyed it is difficult to figure out what happens when --  doesn't support that little girl being Oscar's baby.  Last season Alison slept with Oscar after seeing the life that being Noah's mistress would entail for her in NYC.  A sad, one room apartment where she could sit around and wait for him to see her as he extracted himself from his marriage.   At this point, she left, had her rather sad hookup with Oscar which was apparently a one-night-stand.   Noah got tossed out by Helen, but went on his ....whatever you want to call that....round of booty calls among a variety of women that ended with him being consigned to the rubber room long enough to write that entire manuscript.  Have a less than half-hearted attempt at reconciliation with Helen ....spend some time having a gun waved around in some capacity by Cole....spend months apart from everyone at some Yoga retreat with her mom and then come home, rejoin Noah post-whatever-gun-episode and join him at his lakeside writer's retreat during his final editing prior to publication and still not be visibly pregnant (and still drinking wine).  So even if we can believe that's a timespan of just a few months (and it should be longer) she'd likely know she was pregnant by then. 

 

But again, the baby has Alison's coloring as well.  

[shelley1234]

I liked having the day from last week's episode from Alison and Cole's perspective.  Of course, I just want Joshua Jackson on screen as much as possible.  He is a secondary character and I am totally just in this show for him.  

 

What I found interesting in the differences is that in Cole's memory, he looked so much worse.  He was just a basic hot mess.  In Alison's memory he was hostile, but he wasn't this shell of a man.  The belly made me laugh every time I saw it.  *jiggle jiggle* I was glad to see in Cole's memory and the woman who got in his taxi and clearly wanted Cole to take her for a ride, that it didn't happen.  It would have been just one more way for Cole to be degraded.  

 

And of course, we wouldn't have met the nanny if we weren't going to see her again.  So, enjoy that Cole.  

 

As for Alison's perspective (since I guess not everything is about Joshua Jackson...for shame)...I did think it was interesting to see that she has once again isolated herself, but this time in Noah's world.  She doesn't have anything out there.  If she wants to walk to town she needs to trek for 6 miles.  I do like how much the owners took her in, but I kept waiting for the older guy to be creepy about it.  I think that is more my issue than reality, or at least I hope.  However even so...Noah doesn't celebrate her taking an opportunity, he chastises her for it.  I don't like how Alison doesn't have anything that is her's there.  

 

At least in the flash forwards, we get to see the Cole gets his life together and looks pretty gosh darn good.  I do think there is more to the story than Noah killing Scotty.  It's too complicated of a show for that to be it.  So, I think something else happened and a lot of people know what did happen, but are willing to keep their mouths shut about it, Noah included.  So, I have to think the person involved was either Alison or Noah's oldest daughter.  I don't think there is anyone else that Noah would risk his freedom for.

[Anela]

I am officially over Noah and Alison sex scenes. I feel like I saw more than enough of that last season to where now I'm officially over it. I don't find them hot or sexy or appealing and they seem to go on way too long. Not to mention that I feel like that's all I have ever really seen between them and yet I am supposed to believe they have this deep, true love forever love story. 

 

And as I suspected from the first promo of the season, they're clearly going to try to make it look like Cole is really the one who ran Scotty down. What with the animosity between them (and wow what an asshole that guy was), Cole's continued drinking and driving and using cocaine to stay awake for hours and making Noah take the fall for it would be a perfect way to screw Noah over. I'd love for the writers to let me know if that's where they're going with this so I can peace out from now because I'm not here for that. Watching Cole's spiral from just losing Alison was hard enough (and I loved the fake belly on Joshua to indicate Cole's heavy drinking). 

 

I find it very interesting that in Alison's memory, almost every guy was an asshole to her. From Noah's shitty attitude because he was in a bad mood, to Cole's almost threatening her and finally Noah's lawyer apparently treating her with borderline disdain, as I imagine he's clearly Helen's family lawyer. It's just interesting how Alison sees herself in relation to men in her life. The only exception was the owner of the house and I didn't really like or trust him. He and his wife seemed perfectly fine but I kept getting an uncomfortable vibe in his scenes with Alison and feeling like he was going to hit on her or something. 

 

As I said, Cole's spiral was hard to watch even though I guess if you needed a reason to drink - your kid dying, your wife leaving you for some other guy and losing your family ranch and legacy would pretty much be it. Will be interesting to see how the relationship with him and the nanny progresses (not a spoiler, just figured we met her for a reason). Speaking of the nanny, anyone know whose kid that would be? Because that was clearly Helen's parents house but Helen doesn't have any kids that young and it couldn't possibly be Alison and Noah's kid because aside from that never happening, the timeline didn't add up. I wonder if she was lying about it really being her kid for whatever reason. And wow is Helen's dad an asshole. Thing is, he and Noah are not that different even though he sees Noah as beneath him and Noah thinks he's a better person. 

 

eta: I think it's interesting how kind and happy Alison appears in Cole's memory. She's clear she's not coming back to him but she seems concerned and loving towards him and is beautiful and happy. The contrast with her memory is striking, where Cole looks nothing like the broken man in his memory, he's mean, antagonistic and she looks a mess when she sees him and there's barely a kind word exchanged between them.

 

 

Well I personally hated and continue to hate them both. I never gave Alison the "my son died" pass to excuse all her selfish behavior. 

 

 

That's what sad, I feel like he's an asshole even in his own memories which was what confirmed to me that yes, Noah is Grade A Douche...period.

Sorry to quote such a long post, but you've really posted what I was going to say. Especially the last part: Noah is such a douche!

Even though I like Cole, I also saw the last scene as menacing. I hope he didn't kill his brother. I wonder if she did, in Noah's car, but I'm confused by the timelines.

[Anela]

Nobody else was suspicious because the baby's coloring was like Oscar's?

I was! I thought that as soon as I saw her. Another reason I was wondering about timelines. It was long past the time she ran off to her mother's place, though. Unless they're having an affair...

[cleo]

I'm watching this very late, enjoying reading the comments. I'm not spoiled on anything. 

I never would have thought Cole may have been responsible before coming here. Still don't. 

Normally when someone dies on tv and there is a trial, there is some feeling about the victim. Hard to connect here bc Scotty has just not been a big part of the show. 

Like many, I just think Noah is the worst asshole. After getting angry about her job, and then asing if she was going to sell her house, I would have rethought the relationship.

I don't hate Alison, I relate more to her than Noah, for some reason, though my life has not been very similar.

Finally, I have never seen so much unsexy sex on a show in my life. I wouldn't have thought it possible.

[Razzberry]

I absolutely don't buy into Alison being a nurse.  That odd choice surprised me.  She'd probably freeze up or become an emotional wreck her first day on the job.

Noah continues his downhill slide on my Desire'o-meter by not even owning some basic tools. Even I can fix a toilet, they're not that complicated.   This bull in a china shop likes being needed, but only for fucking it seems.  Some handyman skills would go a long way and probably would've been a tremendous help to his mother. 

Re: that closing shot of Cole:  I thought he was looking at that baby and how much she resembled Noah!  Would explain the scowl.

 

[Mariya]

I started watching this series recently, and it really impressed me! More and more with every episode 🙂
In this season finally all the characters are revealed, especially Helen and Cole, who seemed like just poor ex-spouses before. Now they get their shapes, their own parts in this story. 

Cole causes a lot of sympathy. I paid attention on the scene, where he comes to Alison's new house and sees her as calm and happy, taking care of him, asking him to be in touch... Probably, that's what he needs in this moment. No sleep all night, then he finally falls asleep right in the car as a child. But we don't claim that his memories are relevant because he also takes drugs. It means that his perception is changed, and he represses some parts of reality about his ex-wife's betrayal, I think.
Maybe, that's a secret of his stability?

I look forward to the new episode 🙂 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Mariya