S11.E01: Out Of The Darkness

[Mick Lady]

Does it actually go against canon, though? What I mean is, canon has stated that Lucifer created the first demon--Lilith--by twisting and corrupting her soul. Whispering to her in the dark and tempting her to do evil deeds that slowly tarnished her soul and eventually turning it to black smoke. Was that not what The Darkness---seriously, I'm calling it Bob for here on. I just can't keep typing that nonsense for the next nine months--was doing to Lucifer? But, Lucifer isn't human, nor does he have a soul, so he can't become a demon. 

 

Now, I'm not saying I'm happy with what Carver has done, I'm just not sure it doesn't actually work within the established canon. 

 

And, I'd say the only reason Bob could work his machinations on Lucifer was due to Lucifer's own arrogance and jealousies, so I'd say he holds some culpability in it, too. Just because one is being manipulated doesn't mean they aren't also making choices they knew were the wrong choices. So, Bob may have given Lucifer the idea, but it was Lucifer who actually turned that idea into action. Bob had no power to force Lucifer to do anything; Bob could only suggest.

 

 

The image this statement incited...Nope. Never mind. Not going there...;)

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, mertensia, but I think the robber is Lucifer, mertensia would be Bob, in this scenario.

Nicely said!  

 

Re-reading this post reminded me of Thee Screwtape Letters, by C. S. Lewis

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Screwtape_Letters

[catrox14]

Looking back at Darkness' conversation with Dean, she said:   "No matter where I am, who I am . . . We will always help each other."  Does that mean she can jump bodies?  Can she just assume whatever shape she wants?  

 

Maybe the Darkness that Dean encountered has nothing to do with little baby Armara, but just is who the Darkness is at the point.  Maybe she can be whoever she needs (or wants) to be.

 

I brought up this point up thread. I took it the same way. That she can be whoever she wants to be. That is the ONLY reason I'm not as terrified that we end up with a fucking stupid, disgusting Twilight imprinted baby bullshit thing. Honest to gods if the show does that with Dean, that will probably spell the end for me.

 

So I'm hanging my hat on the Darkness taking whatever form it wants. I swear, show, don't fuck me over on this. Please.

[Partly]

I brought up this point up thread. I took it the same way. That she can be whoever she wants to be. 

 

Missed that!  Great minds and all...  

 

However, taking a different look at it, what if she doesn't get to choose?  She said they were bound together, that they will "always help each other".  What if being "bound" means that she has to be where Dean is?  That she has to be where he can help her and she can help him -- of course, I'm not sure what she means by "help".

 

I'm also interested in finding out how she "saved" Dean.  I also think it's curious that she told Dean "I haven't felt this peaceful in a long, long time."  I find the use of "peaceful" intriguing. The MoC made Dean (and Cain, for that matter) anything but peaceful.  

[catrox14]

 

I'm also interested in finding out how she "saved" Dean.  I also think it's curious that she told Dean "I haven't felt this peaceful in a long, long time."  I find the use of "peaceful" intriguing. The MoC made Dean (and Cain, for that matter) anything but peaceful. 

 

I dunno. In season 9,

 

After Dean killed Abbaddon, Sam said something like "Dean, I'm glad the blade gives you strength or calm or whatever but I also think it's changing you".

 

This whole aspect of how the blade and the Mark affect Dean has kind of been all over the map.

 

In s9 he was getting the shakes and drinking more and being withdrawn and killing with more aggressiveness. Then the Mark was killing him in 9.23 because he wasn't killing.

 

But then in s10, after he killed Randy and the Rapists, he tried not drinking etc, but then got control over the Mark other than some nightmares/premonitions.  Frankly I don't know what the Mark is/was supposed to make him feel and behave.

[Partly]

"Peaceful" implies non-violent. Whether or not Dean was focused or calm or in-control, he was never peaceful (ie not prone to violence).  

[catrox14]

Peaceful also means lack of chaos,serenity. The serenity could come from the violence. The sense that one is getting what one wants be it good or bad would bring a peaceful feeling too.

Personally I'm not taking anything the Darkness says as a good thing or benign.

[Aeryn13]

I guess peaceful could refer to the newfound freedom. Noone knows what captivity was like for the Darkness. Maybe it was a tortorous existance? Beyond solitary confinement for a billion years which is torture in and of itself.

 

Now I doubt the writers will go there, at least not when all is said and done because after all, the entity is supposed to be this year`s Big Bad, ergo a villian. But I would find it much more interesting if the Darkness started out as a neutral entity. I mean, back when it was around, it just was. It couldn`t threaten humanity because humanity wasn`t there yet. Then God and the angels fought it and imprisoned it to make room for re-decorations basically. So it is a threat to humanity NOW because they are suddenly in the same habitat and co-existance is probably out of the question.

 

But that doesn`t mean that it always had to be evil. It could be "evil" now, simply from the viewpoint of humans and because of circumstances. Kind of like Jurassic Park and brining dinos and humans together. Once some started chowing down on the leads, they were the quasi-"villains" of the movies but it wasn`t really due to being evil. Ironically, in that analogy, the actual villains would be the people who released the darkness, just as the rash, arrogant scientists who de-extincted some species.

 

In the end, I do expect some more black and white spiel about the Darkness. 

[rue721]

I think the Darkness is not at all what she is seeming to be. She may have saved him solely because of the connection to the Mark of Cain and so she can manipulate him later (unless Dean is actually the Darkness himself see my spec above).

 

I think that Amara sees Dean as family, like they're kin. The Mark is like their blood tie.

 

I think it was Rue who coined The DARRRRRKKKKKKNNNEEESSSSS.

 

That works for me.

 

Speaking of...haven't seen Rue in a while. Hope she's well

 

*waves*! Everything's great, I'm just working a lot.

 

Could the show be trying to show us how the first demons were made? Perhaps what Lucifer created as demons is something learned from the Darkness? And, perhaps it's not the Mark itself that turns it's bearer into a demon, but the influence of the Darkness whispering through the Mark? 

 

I love the idea of finding out more about what demons are and how they work. I don't think the Darrrrrrrknessssssss had to be whispering evil things into Lucifer's ear to make him behave badly, though. He clearly was power hungry, his connection to her would have given him power and made him feel special, and that power and sense of specialness/destiny/whatever could have corrupted him without her orchestrating his fall or trying to turn him evil.

 

I think that the Darknnnnessssss has got to be amoral, as far as our concept of morality goes. She's pre-God -- what does she even know about His ideas about morality, aside from Him apparently thinking she should be locked away forever.

 

She and Gadreel would probably have a lot to talk about! I continue to miss him.

 

What if the point of this season is to "save" Darkness?  Or at least to offer her the ability to chose what she is.  

 

That's really interesting, and tbh, it seems pretty likely to me. 

 

I thought there was only one Death. He did tell Dean that he and God didn't remember which one of them was older.

 

I thought that God was in charge of bringing life, and Death was in charge of bringing Death, so the question of which one of them came first is sort of a "chicken and the egg" riddle.

 

But speaking of Death -- how are all these people catching Viral Darkness or whatever that illness is, and *dying*? Likewise, if Amara = The Darrrrrknesssssss = the baby, then how could *she* "bring life" by creating that baby? And why was that guy claiming that that baby was "his" and trying to tell everyone her name and all that? Who WAS that guy? Was he another vessel for the Darrrrrknesssss (in addition to the baby)? Are there a ton of vessels for it, and the baby is just one?

 

I liked this episode's atmosphere and its bizarrely old school camera work, but it was pretty slow, and I'm not really intrigued by The Darkness in general, let alone sexy!TheDarrrrrrknessssssss. YMMV.

Edited October 13, 2015 by rue721

[mertensia]

My guess about the baby is that it was the closest newborn human to where The Darkness emerged and so was the most susceptible. Really a cat with the Mark would have been better but babies are probably better to work with.

[mizkat]

Posting my thoughts before I read the rest of the thread. I decided this year to watch the show with no expectations. I've become so jaded over the last few years that it's clouded my viewing. I think that helped me not to dislike this episode as much, but I still didn't care for it. The flashback scenes at the beginning were okay at first, but overused (and not used in an interesting way). Of course The Darkness is a woman, although I like the actress from what little I saw of her. Other random thoughts: 

 

I kept thinking about Jus in Bello, maybe because the set seemed similar, as did the argument with Dean and Sam, although the roles were reversed this time. 

 

I really liked Jared and Jensen's acting in the scene where Sam is trying to convince Dean that they need to change. Well done by both of them. 

 

When Sam said "I have to do what I do" I immediately thought he'd be tied to a chair in the next scene. Also, Sam you're an idiot for not checking the storeroom before locking yourself in there. 

 

The mark on Amara--didn't see that coming. Nice surprise. 

 

Crowley stuff was pointless. 

 

Direction was lackluster--I thought Singer was retiring this year? 

 

Overall, meh for a season opener, but I'm intrigued to see where the season is going. Hopefully the brothers will change, if only to avoid the constant wash/rinse/repeat cycle they've been in for the past five to seven years. 

[mertensia]

They had yo include the Crowley stuff so we didn't -correctly- pester them for wondering what the hell why was Crowley's storyline just dropped?

[Partly]

Sorry posted early. See below.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Partly

[Partly]

My guess about the baby is that it was the closest newborn human to where The Darkness emerged and so was the most susceptible.

I keep thinking (hoping) that the choice of the baby has to do with Dean having to "help" her. I find the word choices of Darkness interesting and would like it if the show would work with that.

Right now we have no idea what powers Darkness has or what she wants. We still don't know whether or not she can switch bodies and whether has control over it.

And I don't think Dean would have had the same desire to save a cat. *grin*

[ZennyKenny]

Another thing that bugged me about the Supernatural Ep 11-1:

 

Cas at the beginning of the episode: "I CAN'T CONTROL MYSELF I'M GOING TO KILL YOU RRARRRRGHMRFPH!!!!"

 

Cas 5 minutes later: "Good evening fellow gentlemen angels, might I humbly call upon your assistance to Heaven?" *tips fedora*

 

Like ok but is Cas a raging, uncontrollable attack dog or not?

[AwesomO4000]

Looking back at the transcript for this episode to refresh my memory for another discussion, I found that I my impressions from this episode were still what I had remembered.

I had thought that Sam's insistence that this was both he and Dean was a more general thing (their "save each other first" attitude recently) and that Sam blamed himself specifically for releasing the Darkness, and looking back on the final conversation between Sam and Dean, I think that still seems to be the case.

In the conversation, Sam references a time earlier when Dean said "we broke it," but in that conversation Dean also says (paraphrase) "I can't go back in time and tell Cain I'm not taking the mark or stop you from releasing the darkness." He also doesn't contradict Sam when Sam says "I unleashed a force on this world that could destroy it." Dean backs that assessment up with "And I told you not to."

So I feel even more strongly now that Sam was talking about the situation in general when he was referencing the "we" rather than the Darkness specifically - when he definitely referred to "I." And Dean agreed concerning Sam's assessment that Sam released the darkness. Good. I am glad that Sam did indeed take responsibility for his mistake (even if he did say that he would do it again), and that's how I thought I'd remembered it.

I'm now even more confident in my current impressions of the most recent episodes of the season - while at the same time being sort of annoyed about that.

[shang yiet]

Quote

Good. I am glad that Sam did indeed take responsibility for his mistake

Yes, he did. But, since the Darkness was just a misunderstood sibling who deserved a happy ending in the eyes of the SPN writers, I'm not too bothered now who released the Darkness (since Sam never got any gratitude from her anyway). It was just the latest in a chain of events that started when Dean took on the Mark.

[MysteryGuest]

Yes, aside from the few thousand people who were killed when she destroyed that town, and possibly hundreds of souls she sucked up while she was around, not much really happened with her.  (I wish they had addressed those deaths a bit better than they did.)  She certainly didn't warrant all of the hype she got about how she was the most evil of them all.  Had God stepped up to the plate a few eons ago, he could have dealt with her then and maybe resolved their issues.  It's really a bit silly that it was all wrapped up by a simple conversation.

[SueB]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Yes, aside from the few thousand people who were killed when she destroyed that town, and possibly hundreds of souls she sucked up while she was around, not much really happened with her.  (I wish they had addressed those deaths a bit better than they did.)  She certainly didn't warrant all of the hype she got about how she was the most evil of them all.  Had God stepped up to the plate a few eons ago, he could have dealt with her then and maybe resolved their issues.  It's really a bit silly that it was all wrapped up by a simple conversation.

Spoiler

 

God needed Metatron's insights from his own redemption experience and Sam & Dean's help to get over his own shit and try.  Seriously.  That's the message and I am surprisingly okay with it.

As for the death toll.... man, I gotta tell ya... NOT GOOD.  We've got the first town with a few hundred dead rabids. A bunch of demon souls (meh), the sheriff's soul, nice nerd, young teen, and a church full.  But I don't know how many others she was munching on. One angel to be sure.  Then there's the handful she smited at the park, and the thousands killed in Oklahoma.  It's that last one that really puts the numbers into 4 digits.  I'm sure the EVMoL are keeping track.  I know Billie is.

 

Oops... realized I was talking all of S11.  

Edited June 7, 2016 by SueB

[Dobian]

Nope, they couldn't go even one episode without one of these guys having something seriously wrong with them.  Will there ever again be an episode featuring normal!Sam and normal!Dean?

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Nope, they couldn't go even one episode without one of these guys having something seriously wrong with them.  Will there ever again be an episode featuring normal!Sam and normal!Dean?

At this point, what is normal!Sam and normal!Dean?

[Dobian]

Just now, catrox14 said:

At this point, what is normal!Sam and normal!Dean?

Good point.

[DittyDotDot]

20 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Nope, they couldn't go even one episode without one of these guys having something seriously wrong with them.  Will there ever again be an episode featuring normal!Sam and normal!Dean?

Well, as I said before, I have high hopes for S12. ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

When you're home from work because you ate bad guacamole, you watch SPN.  I'm sure if Dean had made it, it would have been fine.

I actually watched this previously - when I first decided to keep up with Season 11, even thought I hadn't watched all of the previous seasons.  Couple things especially stood out after having seen the S10 finale:

• Did Sam Lojack Dean?  How did he find him?
• Sam didn't say the spell.  Roweena did.  

[bettername2come]

Netflix doesn't have The Road So Far! How dare they?!! Hey, that chick with the blue eyes again! She's good, I liked her in the vampire episode in season 7. And checking Supernaturalwiki to confirm that, there were a lot of repeats in this one. Including Todd! I didn't recognize him and now I feel bad. I like baby's dad. "FBI, my ass." Is this the first time a good cop has caught them?! "You didn't call for help until after the orgy?" I like that demon minion. Ah, Crowley. Poor people who didn't know who they were getting into bed with. "Hunting things, sure. We're great at that. But it's only half the bumper sticker." Nice line. Can't remember how well it holds true throughout the season. Deeply disturbing when the Darkness Zombies just let Sam go. 

[Hanahope]

Nice beginning, though yeah, gotta wonder how they'll beat the Darkness without god or any archangels.  And how is Sam going to find a cure to the darkness disease in time?  Seems like some of the infected die really quick, like Amara's father.  And Dean is somehow connected to the Darkness due to the Mark.  So will he work for it, or against it?

I'm glad Crowley isn't dead, Mark Sheppard is such a good actor in this part, though it was fun to see him in another body.

And Cas is all messed up too, thanks to Rowena.

Lots of new plot lines here.

[The Companion]

On 10/8/2015 at 6:51 AM, Demented Daisy said:

 

Oh, look.  Dean is keeping a secret from Sam; Sam is keeping a secret from Dean.  That's always worked so well for them before.  *sigh*  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

Who could have predicted it?

On 10/8/2015 at 4:48 PM, catrox14 said:

 

Heh. I just remembered that gas station at the end had a giant picture of a PIE with steam tendrils floating around it. How does Dean not see that giant pie and go and get his pie??

 

I'm really upset that Dean did not notice that at all 😞

Yes! I kept expecting him to get some pie. 

 

I mean, maybe as an immortal being BabyAmara doesn't have to eat, but having just had a newborn, I couldn't help but think the baby was probably starving. Babies eat so frequently. I was like: you were locked up for hours? FEED THE BABY.

I was a little underwhelmed with Darkness as a hot chick, honestly. But I did like the zombies and the tension of the episode. It definitely had an old school zombie apocalypse feel, which was cool. 

I liked the actress who played Crowley and wish they would change it up a bit. Oh well. 

[Katy M]

17 hours ago, The Companion said:

I liked the actress who played Crowley and wish they would change it up a bit. Oh well. 

Really?  I thought she was terrible.  And, I've not really been overly picky in the acting arena.  She was completely flat.  I liked her better in the other epi she was in, but she didn't have as much to do in that one.

[The Companion]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Really?  I thought she was terrible.  And, I've not really been overly picky in the acting arena.  She was completely flat.  I liked her better in the other epi she was in, but she didn't have as much to do in that one.

I think I liked what you didn't. She felt sort of sociopathic to me. 

[Smad]

On 1/27/2020 at 11:25 PM, The Companion said:

I was a little underwhelmed with Darkness as a hot chick, honestly.

Seemed pretty obvious to me that she appeared that way to appeal to Dean. After all she never met humanity before. So no knowledge about humans, language etc.. As soon as she was released she would have read Dean's mind (and maybe Sam's) and formed the appearance on something he would find pleasing, learned English and so on.

[The Companion]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

Seemed pretty obvious to me that she appeared that way to appeal to Dean. After all she never met humanity before. So no knowledge about humans, language etc.. As soon as she was released she would have read Dean's mind (and maybe Sam's) and formed the appearance on something he would find pleasing, learned English and so on.

Ahh. That is a reasonable conclusion. I like it slightly better now.