S11.E01: Out Of The Darkness

[AwesomO4000]

It's apparently not that out there, catrox, since the Darkness said that Dean would forever have a connection to the mark of Cain or something like that, so I think it's a legitimate speculation still.

[AwesomO4000]

Oh yeah,  Iforgot about another part. Maybe someone can explain it to me, cos I don't get it.

 

Castiel stabbed Crowley just as Crowley was leaving his body in order to avoid death. They made a point on repeating the act of Cas stabbing Crowley. So Crowley finds a new body. Fine. But then at the end of the episode, Crowley re-possesses his body just like nothing happened. How? He had to leave it to avoid being killed. It's not like the body wasn't still fatally stabbed. Did they do some kind of unstabby magic or something?

 

Demons can possess dead bodies... Ruby left her dead body to possess the maid for a while, and the demons in "Jus In Belo" possessed dead bodies too. Oh and many of Abaddon's demons were possessing bodies with old scars from potentially fatal wounds.

 

Crowley might have a hole in him for a while, but eventually it will heal up. However, if the soul of whoever was in Crowley had still been there, he's legitimately gone now, since the body was now officially dead for some time that we know of for sure... it likely was before (since we didn't see Crowley's host after Crowley possessed Sam for a while), but now it's official.

[catrox14]

Oh yeah,  Iforgot about another part. Maybe someone can explain it to me, cos I don't get it.

 

Castiel stabbed Crowley just as Crowley was leaving his body in order to avoid death. They made a point on repeating the act of Cas stabbing Crowley. So Crowley finds a new body. Fine. But then at the end of the episode, Crowley re-possesses his body just like nothing happened. How? He had to leave it to avoid being killed. It's not like the body wasn't still fatally stabbed. Did they do some kind of unstabby magic or something?

 

I wondered about that too.

 

I think Crowley's minions said something about holding his meat suit for later?

 

It's apparently not that out there, catrox, since the Darkness said that Dean would forever have a connection to the mark of Cain or something like that, so I think it's a legitimate speculation still.

 

I think his connection is only gonna be through that baby, which is gonna piss me off. I would rather it be Lucifer!

[millennium]

I think my opinion of this season premiere is best summed up by my reaction to something that happened near the end: my DVR hiccuped and refused to play back the final five minutes.

 

And I didn't care.  

 

I thought about restarting it and fast-forwarding to where I left off, but it seemed like way too much effort for "The Walking Dead Lite."

 

It occurs to me I'd like to see Jensen Ackles in a serious western.   I think he'd be pretty good.

Edited October 8, 2015 by millennium

[SueB]

Catrox...I was somewhat teasing about 'Chosen One' status. Although AwesomeO is right in why it can be interpreted that way. I've never focused much on the Chosen One status as being essential to anything.

Mick Lady.,. Sam will be fine. He's #1 on the call sheet. Either the Darkness won't kill him because he matters to Dean, or it won't kill him because he's an Archangel vessel, or it won't kill him because a wizard did it.

I like that Sam was trying so hard NOT to kill but since they all die anyway, there was a natural limitation to zombie shelf life. Dean was right to point out infecting others but Superior NE seems to be isolated.

The real question in my head: why were they apparently AFTER the baby when the baby was The Darkness?

Edited October 8, 2015 by SueB

[Demented Daisy]

I've slept on it and I have a few more things to say.

 

I'm really disappointed that they haven't let the Mark go.  As a story, it doesn't work for me because Dean hasn't learned or grown from it.  He's still impulsive as ever.  I'm glad that he's all "We're not going to play the blame game", but after 10 years, that's a complete 180 from who he's always been.  I have a difficult time believing that, after everything that they've unleashed on the world, this is the one that changes things for him.

 

Unless, of course, Amara has possessed him.  ;-)  (Note: Not what I really think.)

 

Poor Cas.  Once again, he's been caught by a bunch of angels who may torture him.  Maybe they want info, maybe they want revenge for Cas helping to unleash the Darkness.  You know, like they did with the angels falling and Metatron.  But they might throw a curve ball and something crazy is going on.  I suppose we'll see.

 

Crowley's sexuality has always been a bit fluid, so I'm not surprised to find out he waited to call his minions until after the orgy.  He was probably curious about what that white-bread couple meant about "being gentle -- not!"  (ETA  Now that was a funny typo.  I definitely did not mean "gentile".)

 

Oh, look.  Dean is keeping a secret from Sam; Sam is keeping a secret from Dean.  That's always worked so well for them before.  *sigh*  The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

ETA  I hope that baby isn't Dean's.  Hasn't he already been tormented enough by his offspring?

 

ETA 2  Why does Amara (or whatever the adult version is called) think that Dean helped release her?  Dean had the Mark, that's the extent of his "help".  Shouldn't she be thanking Sam?  Or Cas?  Or Crowley?  Or Rowena?  They all did more to release the Darkness than Dean did.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[Jediknight]

Well finally watched it, sorry had to watch the NXT special over this, I wasn't going to miss a second of Bayley vs Sasha.  Very good premiere, and I especially liked that Sam and Dean acknowledged that they once again broke the world.

 

Jenna is awesome.  She kicked some ass, and she remained calm.  Hopefully they don't screw her up.  Also on a shallow note, really pretty with piercing eyes.

[Frost]

 

I'm guessing Sam cowering behind the desk was his version of not wanting to kill the dangerous infected person, rather than being afraid.

If that's what they were going for, it was an epic fail.   Sam didn't look conflicted, he looked terrified.  If the director had Sam look at the zombie like he's ready to shoot, then hesitate, look down at his gun, back at the zombie, and then go back behind the desk then maybe his later statement about not wanting to kill the infected human would make sense.  As it was, it looked like Sam was too afraid to go after the zombie even after hearing a crying baby which is absolute character assassination. 

 

I wonder what magic chemical Sam is going to find in that storeroom to cure his zombie infection?  Maybe there's some Borax in there!  Wasn't the Leviathon killing properties of Borax an accidental discovery?  It dripped on him from up above as Jody was cleaning up?  Hopefully something will fall on Sam and cure him!

[Wynne88]

I missed something - what secret is Dean keeping?

[Demented Daisy]

I missed something - what secret is Dean keeping?

 

He didn't tell Sam what Darkness lady told him.  Did I miss something?  

[bethy]

After all the "We're back to season 1!" and "The brother's work together!" I was fooled. I'll admit it. Which is really just embarrassing. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me, what, 8 times in 11 seasons? Shame on me. 

 

Lies. Again. Some more. We can't get through one friggin' episode of the season without BOTH of them lying to each other. I really was actually enjoying the episode until Dean's lie sunk in and then Sam lied. Sigh.

 

There was a season 2 episode on TNT recently - can't remember which one - and at one point I remember thinking. Oh right. They didn't always start with a lie back in the day. I miss those days. 

[TexasGal]

Hey! Wasn't that young kid with the rifle in the Cas scene "I am Todd!! Hear me roar" ??

The little kid from "Wishful Thinking"?

I think it was!  I said to my dogs - who is that kid?  Why does he look familiar?

 

They didn't answer me.  Jerks.

[Bruinsfan]

OHHHH I just had a thought.  What if the Darkness saved Cain, too?  If she is connected to someone who has the Mark then shouldn't she be connected to Cain as well?

Well, Cain was a demon when Dean killed him. All evidence points to demons ceasing to exist when they're killed. Then again, we're talking about the primordial darkness from before creation; maybe that's where destroyed demons go?

 

Why does Amara (or whatever the adult version is called) think that Dean helped release her?  Dean had the Mark, that's the extent of his "help".  Shouldn't she be thanking Sam?  Or Cas?  Or Crowley?  Or Rowena?  They all did more to release the Darkness than Dean did.

If "The Darkness" whatever it is has been excluded from creation since the beginning of time, its connection to the bearer of the Mark of Cain may be its only source of information about the world. Maybe it doesn't know anything about Rowena, Sam, or any of the others who had a role in bringing it back. After all, not knowing who/what Death is seems to indicate no prior awareness about how the universe is set up.

[Demented Daisy]

If "The Darkness" whatever it is has been excluded from creation since the beginning of time, its connection to the bearer of the Mark of Cain may be its only source of information about the world. Maybe it doesn't know anything about Rowena, Sam, or any of the others who had a role in bringing it back. After all, not knowing who/what Death is seems to indicate no prior awareness about how the universe is set up.

 

Fair enough.  But that still doesn't explain why she thinks that Dean helped release her.

[catrox14]

Okay. So upon re-watch I feel better about some things but that's only because I'm still sticking with a lot of what we are seeing here is mind fuckery be it wonky timelines or wonky memories of Sam and Dean. At least that is my fervent hope.

 

There are yellow and purple-pinkish wildflowers in the field where Dean wakes. They really focused on that. I don't think it was just an establishing shot or for the pretties.

 

How did it get to be spring when it was slushy muddy fall (winter?)in the finale. Everything was brown and dead looking. Nothing bright and pretty like where Dean woke up. If it was supposed to be IMMEDIATELY after those events and they still wanted it to be the exact same time why show us those flowers? Methinks this is for reason.

 

Also Dean's conversation/visions of the Darkness are odd.

 

In the Vortex of Darkness (tm me) when Dean first sees her and speaks to her, he didn't seem afraid nor particularly worried about her. He just says "Hey what the hell is going on here!" without much fear showing. This may have been bravado on Dean's part but it was odd.

 

This exchange between Dean and the Darkness I thought was peculiar.

 

DN: "I like it here with you. I haven't felt this much peace in a long time"

Dean:"Let's get something straight. I'm not here to bring you peace. I know what you are?"

DN:"Really? I've been gone so long I didn't think anyone remembered." 

Dean:"Well, Death painted a hell of a picture"

DN:"I don't know this Death and HE doesn't know me"**

Dean"So are you saying shouldn't try and kill you right now?"

DN: "Am I saying that or are you?" ***

 

**Why would the Darkness a primordial entity call Death a HE when Dean never mentioned Death's gender. DN(the Darkness) seems to be lying there.

 

***What is this about? Could Dean actually be the Darkness?....

 

I'm throwing this out there because Crowley possessed a female meatsuit. Hannah and Raphael swapped to opposite gender meatsuits.

 

I'm not entirely sure what I mean here but given all the meatsuit gender swapping

 

Could the Darkness have saved Dean via this other meatsuit that is Amara. Maybe Dean is trying to save himself?

 

I dunno...just weird thinky thoughts.

Edited October 8, 2015 by catrox14

[Wynterwolf]

Fair enough.  But that still doesn't explain why she thinks that Dean helped release her.

 

My sense was that because he was the bearer of The Mark and essentially holder of the Lock/Key, she equated him as the one with the control over what happened to her, so she assumed her being released was his choice.  But... that speculation is definitely subject to further context.  

 

Okay Carver, you have me watching live again... we'll see how long this lasts.  

[Frost]

 

Dean"So are you saying shouldn't try and kill you right now?"

DN: "Am I saying that or are you?"

I was wondering about that exchange too.  Is it all happening in Dean's mind?  I was looking for signs she was inhabiting him somehow, but no black eye flashes or anything.  Or are they just connected.  It would be weird if Amara stays a baby and The Darkness only communicates with Dean.

 

I still want to know the ramifications of Dean killing Death.  It doesn't seem to have stopped people from dying.

[catrox14]

 

I was wondering about that exchange too.  Is it all happening in Dean's mind?  I was looking for signs she was inhabiting him somehow, but no black eye flashes or anything.  Or are they just connected.  It would be weird if Amara stays a baby and The

Darkness only communicates with Dean.

 

It's also weird at the very end when she says.

 

"No matter where I am or WHO  I am, we will always help each other".

 

That WHO is pretty trippy. So I wonder if it's saying that it can take any form it wants human or otherwise.

Edited October 8, 2015 by catrox14

[Goldmoon]

I was thinking that the purple and yellow flowers were yarrow at first, but the purple really looked like verbena/vervaine to me.  According to wiki, verbena has "longstanding ue in herbalism and folk medicine," and is possibly a "sex steroid analogue." It is also "associated with divine and other supernatural forces."  Pliny the Elder evidently described it as a sacrificial herb. It may also be used as protection from spells.  That didn't originate with TVD.

 

Yarrow doesn't seem that interesting.  The only thing on wiki about it is from British folklore, that it can give second sight.

 

Can anyone positively identify the flowers?

[catrox14]

Okay, so I've mentioned in the spoiler thread before that something about Dean seems off. I still think something is off.
 

They've mentioned the Cage, Michael and Lucifer, which honest to gods I didn't think they would actually do.

 

Dean is coming off as rather hardcore in just kill them all stay on mission much like future!Dean. Since they unleashed the Darkness maybe this is triggering the advent of the End!Verse 2.0 or something very much like that?

[Aeryn13]

Well, I was pleasantly surprised to find that it looks like Dean might get an actual storyline. If it isn`t dropped or cut or just ends with never doing anything with it in the end. But so far, much better than expected.

 

Why they didn`t deem it necessary to SAY so at Comic Con or various other interviews, I do not understand. They didn`t have to reveal anything, just say that some juicy tidbits were coming for the character. That would be as non-spoilery as it gets. Not saying anything was just assy. Who could have guessed that for the first time in ten years it meant they actually had something they could have said?

 

Still not stepping away from the ledge of course because, well, ten years and all of the same crap.

 

I liked the actress for the Darkness and the chemistry she had with Dean. Their scenes had a nice surreal feeling to it. I do not quite understand why she looks upon him so favourably in terms of releasing her since he didn`t have the intention nor any involvement in the actual releasing. That doesn`t mean that I didn`t like her being a Dean-fan.

 

Her not knowing Death is iffy. Leviathans were the first creation of God, weren`t they? And Death was around for them. Then came the angels, including archangels as I understand it. If THEY defeated her, how could she not know a being who predates them? I know why, it`s lol!canon!Carver. The guy simply rearranged the birthing order here.

 

Also, why does she have the Mark? Was it something inherent to her? Something that God took from her to use it and keep her imprisoned? That would at least explain the kinship with a former Mark-bearer.

 

The cage mentions and Lucifer/Michael were pretty much telegraphing. My guess is only Lucifer comes back and he will be the one to heal Sam and be Sam`s guide to goodness and bla bla blub. Not sure if the Darkness shouldn`t have a connection with him, too, though. Mark-bearer and all.

 

Didn`t like the heavy-handed, over simplistic "give Sam the moral point" speech while painting Dean`s view as oh-so-wrong. His view was practical. They were in a crisis situation.

 

Besides, he made pretty much the same "look at us, we`re not saving people anymore" argument in the Season 10 Finale. Only there it was painted as wrong. Yet, Sam adopts that point of view and now it`s the bee`s knees. Things haven`t changed that much, I see. Besides, what point is Sam making? He said he would do it again yet they would have to change. Which is it? 

 

The secret-keeping? Well, I`ve been over the brotherly relationship for years and I pretty much hate their relationship now so in that vein, I couldn`t care less if it brings new tension. But even as a general observer, it is so obnoxious. Like, the very first episode. Seriously? You can see the usual storytelling from a mile away.

 

Sam will be healed and get visions from either God or Lucifer and will keep that a secret and Dean will do the same with his "chats with the darkness". It is all so pointless and predictable. Do the writers really not know ANY other way to write drama? Hint: drama can come from outside sources, it doesn`t always need to come from strained interpersonal character relationships.

 

Even Smallville did away with the secreths and lieths by Season 5ish for god`s sakes. . 

 

 

Okay, so I've mentioned in the spoiler thread before that something about Dean seems off. I still think something is off.

 

Judging by this episode, I think he is simply really thrown by what he considers to be their Big Bad telling him that he will never really fight her and will instead help her. His goal is to fight and kill her or at least lock her up again and she just alluded to him possibly being under such a subtle mind control (via their bond) that he will play into her hands. There is nothing that could have rattled him more. So I can see him trying really hard to convince himself that his thoughts and actions are his own.   

Edited October 8, 2015 by Aeryn13

[catrox14]

I was thinking that the purple and yellow flowers were yarrow at first, but the purple really looked like verbena/vervaine to me.  According to wiki, verbena has "longstanding ue in herbalism and folk medicine," and is possibly a "sex steroid analogue." It is also "associated with divine and other supernatural forces."  Pliny the Elder evidently described it as a sacrificial herb. It may also be used as protection from spells.  That didn't originate with TVD.

 

Yarrow doesn't seem that interesting.  The only thing on wiki about it is from British folklore, that it can give second sight.

 

Can anyone positively identify the flowers?

 

The Yarrow was used in About A Boy for the de-aging spell IIRC

 

nice surreal feeling to it. I do not quite understand why she looks upon him so favourably in terms of releasing her since he didn`t have the intention nor any involvement in the actual releasing. That doesn`t mean that I didn`t like her being a Dean-fan.

 

I'm not so sure she is a Dean-fan. I think the Darkness is not at all what she is seeming to be. She may have saved him solely because of the connection to the Mark of Cain and so she can manipulate him later (unless Dean is actually the Darkness himself see my spec above).  But I'm really not expecting this to be good for Dean in the long run. 

 

I fully think it will blow up in Dean's face so that we have the symmetry of s4 with Ruby to Sam.

[Wynterwolf]

Yarrow doesn't seem that interesting.  

 

This site has more on it from a mystical standpoint.  

 

This might be interesting, given the promo:

 

Back in the day, hanging a bunch of yarrow over a cradle was said to protect a baby from witches trying to steal its soul.

 

[Aeryn13]

 

But I'm really not expecting this to be good for Dean in the long run.

 

I never imagined it would be good for him yet I still think she likes him in a way. Not even sure she is going for manipulation. She flat-out told him they have a mystical bond that influences both of them. Ergo, she doesn`t even need to play games with him.

 

Also, I take Dean-fans on this show whereever I can get them. So let me live in my bubble of happiness for a while.  

[catrox14]

I never imagined it would be good for him yet I still think she likes him in a way. Not even sure she is going for manipulation. She flat-out told him they have a mystical bond that influences both of them. Ergo, she doesn`t even need to play games with him.

 

Also, I take Dean-fans on this show whereever I can get them. So let me live in my bubble of happiness for a while.  

 

I wasn't trying to talk you out of your bubble. Sorry if that came across that way.

[SueB]

I've been thinking about how MUCH are Sam and Dean actually lying.  Hear me out. 

 

For Sam, it's pretty simple - he's infected. If he tells Dean, Dean will stop taking care of Jenna and the baby (something Dean very much WANTS to do) and once again come tear-assing back to Sam to try and save him.  Sam is so over that.  It was even in The Road So Far that it's become Dean's THING.  It just seems to inevitably lead to bad stuff.  And what can Dean do that DOESN'T involve making a demon deal or invoking something else he shouldn't.  Sam probably figures he'll be turned or dead by the time Dean gets back.  So, I think Sam had the lie of omission because he wanted Dean to do what he needs to do. He even stated, before they went separate ways "you've got to let me be me."  So yes, a lie of omission, but completely consistent with what he's said to Dean.  I guess I feel like it's not the level of "lie of betrayal" that Dean felt last season.  Will Dean be pissed at Sam if he's dead?  Well of course.  But these guys have said their "goodbyes" so many times... IDK, I guess I'm with Sam on this one.  If they are going to make a change, then now is the time to take a stand.  That, IMO, is what is motivating Sam.

 

For Dean, how much he is lying depends a lot on how much he knew when he said she said nothing else. He was pretty confused when Sam first woke him up and didn't seem to remember Amara until Sam said he disappeared. I guess I could see him piecing together the conversation over the series of flashbacks than having it all in his head right from the jump.  The key piece that he is, as of now, holding back from Sam is that she said Dean wouldn't hurt her and they have a bond.  And I get his reluctance to admit a bond to darkness.  He wants that OVER.  But he's going to need to come clean soon.

 

Bottom Line:  I'm not so sure we are back to secrets and lies.  I think they both have the opportunity to come clean by EP2 end.  That's soon enough for me.

Edited October 8, 2015 by SueB

[Omegamom]

Finally got to see It! Grumble grumble lousy CW app grumble grumble lousy Internet connection grumble grumble.

I liked the surrealness of the first few minutes.

If The Darkness was around before God created everything...hmmm...but, yeah, Death was supposed to be a skosh older than God, he wasn't sure, so either way, The Darkness should know about Death.

Dean saying "untenable" was noticeable.

Sam was freaked out. By everything. I think that's why he hid from zombie dude.

Lies, yes, noticed those, of course.

Liked the emphasis on saving people from Sam. All the people.

I think half of Dean's "save the baybee" obsession is that he feels like it's something he can *do*. But then, TD says that he will end up helping her whether he wants to or not, and we see baybee--whose name is Amara, according to zombie daddy Mike--has the MoC, so the other half is probably that "help TD without knowing or wanting to".

I howled at Crowley putting down the Jack/tire whatever it is (my mind is blank), deciding "orgy first!" Though I gotta say, the orgy-goers didn't seem very enticing to me, so I'd expect a 300+ years old demon to have more jaded tastes and not be into middle-aged Nebraska suburbanites. ;-)

He had to kill them to get their blood to communicate the "old school" way. Though why the hell he didn't just call his minions on the cell phone...and there was absolutely no explanation why his snapping didn't work.

The Cage! Half of hell being freaked out! Cool beans!

Cas's dialogue seemed stilted to me. And boy, it did sound like a goodbye. Do the two angels just want to beat the hell out of him for breaking Metatron out, or are they planning to reprogram him before he can go to heaven?

Was there any ambient music? There were a bunch of times I actively noticed none, but I didn't keep checking.

Anyway, not bad. Not great, but not bad.

[Linderhill]

I'm kind of reserving my judgement on Emily Swallow aka "the Darkness woman/Amara.  I wasn't particularly impressed by her acting on The Mentalist.  But then she really hasn't had to do much on this show yet besides look mysterious and say cryptic things to Dean.  I was slightly dismayed at her being cast on this show since the fandom seems to embrace practically every actor cast. 

[Goldmoon]

I howled at Crowley putting down the Jack/tire whatever it is (my mind is blank), deciding "orgy first!" Though I gotta say, the orgy-goers didn't seem very enticing to me, so I'd expect a 300+ years old demon to have more jaded tastes and not be into middle-aged Nebraska suburbanites. ;-)

 

They weren't very pretty, but loved the confirmation that Crowley swings both ways.  He definitely got fucked, as in penetrated.  He was probably daydreaming about Dean at the time.

 

He ought to go out of body more often, although I love MS.

[Primetimer]

And leave it to Crowley to hold off on getting back to his body until after the orgy.

Read the story

[catrox14]

WAIT ONE MINUTE HERE.

 

How were the angels able to find Cas? He was warded from the angels when he got that tattoo.  He hasn't been using angel radio to communicate with them at all. He was going in the back door to Heaven.

 

How could he pray to them and have them actually find him? What have I missed here?

[SueB]

WAIT ONE MINUTE HERE.

 

How were the angels able to find Cas? He was warded from the angels when he got that tattoo.  He hasn't been using angel radio to communicate with them at all. He was going in the back door to Heaven.

 

How could he pray to them and have them actually find him? What have I missed here?

I'm pretty sure if Cas makes a direct plea - like Dean did in EP9.1, they can here.  And I expect they are "tuned" into Cas' voice to know when he's calling.

 

Ya know, Cas really is acting like a Winchester these days.

[catrox14]

Ah I guess that makes some sense. I was just like WTF LOL Thanks

 

Heh. I just remembered that gas station at the end had a giant picture of a PIE with steam tendrils floating around it. How does Dean not see that giant pie and go and get his pie??

 

I'm really upset that Dean did not notice that at all :(

Edited October 8, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

UST: Unresolved Sexual Tension see:

 

I'm not saying I ship it... but the actors pull it off well. I think it's the part where they are staring at each others' lips instead of eyes.

[DittyDotDot]

So, I finally watched it and it pretty much what I was expecting. But, hey, it wasn't offensive or outright nonsensical, so there's that. 

 

All I could think during the long talk of how they need to change and blah, blah, blah..."I think we've covered it, do we really need all these lines?"

 

I don't think that baby will be Dean's. She is the Darkness. Born at the moment the Darkness was set free, it appears and I'm guessing will rapidly grow up to look as she appeared to Dean.

 

 

Hey! Wasn't that young kid with the rifle in the Cas scene "I am Todd!! Hear me roar" ??

The little kid from "Wishful Thinking"?

 

YES!! I started shouting, "Kneel before Todd!" the minute I saw him. This episode had a couple reuses. Jenna used to be the Alpha Vamp's virgin and Crowley's meatsuit was the wife of the guy who died from the razors in It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester. Plus, I'm almost positive both the husbands from the orgy were in previous episodes and the father of the baby, too, I just can't place them all right now. I'll have to think on this. It's a fun game for me.

 

Oh yeah,  Iforgot about another part. Maybe someone can explain it to me, cos I don't get it.

 

Castiel stabbed Crowley just as Crowley was leaving his body in order to avoid death. They made a point on repeating the act of Cas stabbing Crowley. So Crowley finds a new body. Fine. But then at the end of the episode, Crowley re-possesses his body just like nothing happened. How? He had to leave it to avoid being killed. It's not like the body wasn't still fatally stabbed. Did they do some kind of unstabby magic or something?

 

Demons can posses dead meat. While possessed, they seem to be able to heal the body they're in, but once they leave the body returns to it's injured or dead state. Just like Meg in S1 and Ruby possessing a "empty" vessel back in S4. 

[catrox14]

UST: Unresolved Sexual Tension see:

 

Oh they were definitely looking at each others lips but fucking Hell I will be so fucking disappointed if they go to that stupid well. 

 

Dean already had one monster baby that had to be killed.

 

But even worse if it turns out that Baby!Amara is his spawn with the Darkness but the Darkness is Baby!Amara actually all grown Amara here with Dean. NOPITY NOPITY NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE. That's some stupid level of creep even this show hasn't done.

[flyingdi]

Amara is also the Greek form of the name Mary. Make of that what you will.

[catrox14]

Amara is also the Greek form of the name Mary. Make of that what you will.

 

Wuuuuuttt??? Oh wow. Thanks!

[AwesomO4000]

Demons can posses dead meat. While possessed, they seem to be able to heal the body they're in, but once they leave the body returns to it's injured or dead state. Just like Meg in S1 and Ruby possessing a "empty" vessel back in S4. 

 

I don't think that demons can heal a body. I think that the body heals itself as best it can while animated, as in wounds close, bones mend, etc., but if there is fatal damage like brain damage or a severed spine, that remains fatal, so that when the demon leaves, the body is dead or dies because the demon is no longer animating it. For me, animating and healing are different things. It probably sounds like I'm nit-picking here, but I have a reasoning...

 

The only demons who I can say for sure can spontaneously heal themselves are knights of hell like Cain, Dean and Abaddon. Because Dean could heal, this is why his body was fine after he was no longer a demon. Otherwise if Dean followed the demons can heal, but they revert back  thing, when Dean was no longer a demon, theoretically his body should have returned to its injured or damaged state - in Dean's case dead. It was also why Abaddon could put herself back together. However, when Ruby was tortured by Alistair in "Heaven and Hell," she remained injured when she went back to Sam and Dean. She probably eventually healed at least some, but I would guess that it took as long as a human body might take to heal - the wounds that were able to be healed that is. (Some things might not be able to heal, depending on where the wound is or what it is.)

[Guest]

I need them..you...everyone...to come up with another name for the Darkness because "I Believe in a Thing Called Love" is in my head now and it will not go away.

 

But I think it might make one of those good Dean and Sam episodes where they sing in falsetto while wearing opened chest bellbottomed jumpsuits in a space ship while being humped by a headless purple Muppet and fighting a giant red space octopus with guitars that shoot lasers.  You know the episodes I mean.

[SueB]

Options:

1) Amara

2) Anti-Light

3) Big Bad

4) Evilness

 

Okay, that's it. I'm done.

[catrox14]

I think it was Rue who coined The DARRRRRKKKKKKNNNEEESSSSS.

 

That works for me.

 

Speaking of...haven't seen Rue in a while. Hope she's well

[DittyDotDot]

I need them..you...everyone...to come up with another name for the Darkness because "I Believe in a Thing Called Love" is in my head now and it will not go away.

 

 

How about: 

• Blacky
• Ebony
• Ol' Smokey
• Bob

[catrox14]

So...rewatching the episode...because I'm trying to figure out what is up with Dean and the Darkness at this early juncture...but it occurs to me I'm wrong about the parallel to Sam and Ruby

 

IMO it's a parallel to Dean and Cas.  Hear me out.

 

--Dean crawls out of a dark grave into the light and is laying amongst flowers and trees in the graveyard. No one else around him.

--Cas is trying to communicate with Dean 

--Cas finally appears and says he raised him from perdition (Dean Winchester is saved)

--Cas gets all up in Dean's business because personal space is irrevelant to Cas

-- Cas says he and Dean share a more profound bond

-- Cas and Dean typically try to help each other (except when they are lying to each other LOL) but I think it's pretty clear that Cas and Dean love each other in whatever way.

 

 

In Out of the Darkness:

 

--Dean wakes up in the middle of a field of flowers. He doesn't know what happened to him entirely but says the Darkness saved him. (Dean Winchester is saved, again by an "celestial being" )

--Darkness gets right in his face not respecting his personal space much like Cas

--Darkness tells Dean they will always be bound together because of the Mark.

--Darkness says they will always help each other

--They have that look at the end which some interpret as UST

 

Cas and Dean have a nice conversation where they care about each other and Cas essentially says goodbye even as Dean says to Sam "We can't save Cas if we are stuck in this hospital".

 

What do you guys think? Am I off base here? Is this how they kill Destiel once and for all?

Edited October 9, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

I like trxr4kids' The Smog Monster myself. But that's partly due to nostalgia...

 

and because This Smog Monster is just so cool...

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't help putting him/her up here again.

[ZennyKenny]

How about Misty?

[Linderhill]

 

How about:

    Blacky

    Ebony

    Ol' Smokey

    Bob

I vote Bob.

[catrox14]

I can't go with Bob. It will make me think of Bobby, and Bob Singer and several family members.

 

Joe. I can live with Joe

[Guest]

I like trxr4kids' The Smog Monster myself. But that's partly due to nostalgia...

 

and because This Smog Monster is just so cool...

 

 

OK, I give you that.  Smog Moster is Space Octopus' cooler cousin.

[SueB]

What do you guys think? Am I off base here? Is this how they kill Destiel once and for all?

 

First, no power in the universe is going to kill Destiel.  Destiel exists with or without canon approval. They could have Dean kill Cas and it'd still exist. IMO, they've starved Destiel storyline but they won't kill off Cas.  So... I don't think they are targeting Destiel.

 

But you do make an interesting point about the relationship with Cas versus the relationship with Amara.  They are clearly having Amara hook right into Dean. But I think it's like the Star Trek mirror verse - it's warped, and not in a good way.  So, it's a bizzaro universe relationship parallel.  Here's some reasons why:

1) Cas saved Dean = Amara said she helped Dean (really? HOW, exactly.  She took him out of the car. Sam had his usual concussion. Seems like she helped him differently than 'in the moment'.  I think we need this answer ... see speculation below). Cas saving Dean was pretty unambiguously good.

2) Cas & Dean = profound bond

    Amara & Dean = eternally bound

There's a world of difference between bond and bound.  Bond implies something mutual. "Bound" implies forced.  "Bound" is much more concerning and dark.

3) Cas was open with Dean, handing him information pretty much right from the start. Amara seems open with Dean like Lucifer was open with Sam.  Her "truth" is not a force of goodness. 

4) Cas left a mark on Dean when he saved him.  But it's like Dean left a mark on Amara - and he didn't mean to.

 

So... I think there's a parallel but it's a dark parallel.  She might try to woo Dean's loyalty. It might be a fight between Cas and Amara over Dean's soul.... but my money is on Cas. Every day of the week.

 

My rewatch thoughts.

 

1) What if God created the rabid's?  Maybe that cloud was like a protection mechanism in case the lock was open.  He turned humans into rabid - leviathiany-like creatures who were to seek out and kill everyone around the form the Darkness took (which was a baby) to leave it vulnerable or even kill it. Maybe God even knew it would be a baby and so it wanted mindless creatures so their conscious wouldn't stop them.  But he also gave them a shelf-life to limit spread and length of trauma.  Yes, he killed a few hundred in the attempt, but Amara is apparently a God-class Big Bad.  Now, I don't know HOW they could kill off the Darkness that easily. Unless there is something in their blood that would damage or destroy The Darkness.  IDK... I just think it's going to be a twist that God set up the lock with a booby-trap (which was the smoke that created the rabids).

 

2) Did you notice Dean never pulled out the grenade launcher?  I wonder if that was cut.  it's the picture on several review articles BTW.

 

3) I liked that Mike thought it was a twister.  The SFx looked like a twister in how it was throwing things about.  

 

4) I wonder if Crowley is no longer able to "travel" with the Darkness unleashed.  I can't believe it's a meatsuit thing. That would be useful in making Crowley Team "Stop the Darkness". 

 

5) Going back to a) how did Amara help Dean and b) how are they bound?

-- a) Does she think she helped Dean because she gave him power when he was wearing the Mark?  I think God (and it was implied by both Crowley and Death) put the 'no dying' protection on Dean.  I think Amara (The Darkness), turned it into a curse. So, rather than a resurrection, the carrier became a demon.  It twisted the soul.  After riding around on Dean's arm for so long, maybe she's gotten to KNOW Dean.  So maybe she feels like she helped him feel unburdened when he was a demon?  He was certainly more powerful and able to exercise his will (and whims).  It was dark and wrong, but she may only feel like it was free-ing as she's more amoral than immoral. 

-- b) It was really odd how Amara felt being with Dean was 'peaceful'.   Maybe it's because she was no longer constrained and he was comfortable (again, having worn her on his arm for a year... and somehow that sounds dirty).  But she also said they were "bound".  Is it possible he tethers her to this plane of existence?  Would killing him be possible?  IF possible, would killing him release her or rebox her up?  IDK.  But I'd be shocked if at some point he doesn't come to the conclusion that he's gotta do something personally due to being "bound" to her in order to make her go away.

 

6) Dean is not going to kill that baby.  it's not happening.  She chose wisely. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by SueB