S17.E04: Institutional Fail

[Kel Varnsen]

Good episode. This season is shaping up to be pretty great, and very old school. I like it.

 

Whoopi's speech in the end was pretty impressive. Acting-wise but also in terms of content. She wasn't wrong. I don't recall her (or anyone) mentioning that a solution for the problem would be to hire more case workers, though. Not that this would ever happen, but I thought it should have been mentioned that the higher-ups are willing to spend US tax dollars on trials and incarcerations after the fact, but they'd never spend any money trying to correct the systemic problem. Still, her speech about how everyone ignores the problem was pretty intense.

 

 

 Yea at first I thought her acting was a bit over the top, but then as she was talking I realized she was kind of right. I mean sure it is easy to scapegoat her, but throwing her in jail and replacing her with someone else in the exact same system is still going to result in kids at serious risk.

 

So am I the only one that is hoping Adam Brody shows up as Dodds son?  Okay it could be a hold over to my love of the Cohens from The OC

I was thinking it is too bad Ben Mckenzie is in Gotham.

 

I was wondering if it's the son. To be Olivia's #2 he would have be at least around Rollins age. The last exchange could have been concern for his grandchild?

I was wondering if the chief might have been the dad too. Otherwise why even give him some lines to share with Rollins, when she could be just talking to Olivia or Carisi.

 

Also really the only thing that bugged me about this episode was after Barba was told that the NYPD would not be pursuing this case, and he said he didn't work for the NYPD, he should have called upon his own DA investigator, John Munch, to help him investigate the charges. 

Edited October 10, 2015 by Kel Varnsen

[Monkeybball]

 

 Yea at first I thought her acting was a bit over the top, but then as she was talking I realized she was kind of right. I mean sure it is easy to scapegoat her, but throwing her in jail and replacing her with someone else in the exact same system is still going to result in kids at serious risk.

 

I was thinking it is too bad Ben Mckenzie is in Gotham.

 

I was wondering if the chief might have been the dad too. Otherwise why even give him some lines to share with Rollins, when she could be just talking to Olivia or Carisi.

 

Also really the only thing that bugged me about this episode was after Barba was told that the NYPD would not be pursuing this case, and he said he didn't work for the NYPD, he should have called upon his own DA investigator, John Munch, to help him investigate the charges. 

 

THIS!!! So much This. This show is seriously lacking without Munch to punch up the humor.  Fin is all we've got.  Carisi we laugh AT sometimes, but he's so hot it's like whateverrrr.

 

I honestly didn't like this episode that much.  I was really bored by it.  And while Whoopi's speech on the stand certainly was dead-on in terms of the accuracy and the points that she was making, I thought her acting was turrible.  

So I think I'm going to go watch it again now and see if I can get more on your guys' page.

 

BTW: The Dr. Rudnick thing happened in early June and this was early August. HOW THE F&^% did Rollins grow that much?! It was SO off-putting.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post join the episode!

 

There's No Saving This Date
Yeah yeah, 'it's not a date.' Whatever it is, maybe-future-Lieutenant Benson and Deputy Chief Eyebrows have to put it on hold when a child-welfare case blows up.

[J-Man]

 

I did find it funny that the person who made the “tall poppy” comment to Barba was significantly shorter than him.  Raul is listed as 5’8-1/2” on imdb.  Mariska was towering over him in her heels.

At first I thought he might have been saying "papi" instead of "poppy!"

[Kel Varnsen]

I honestly didn't like this episode that much.  I was really bored by it.  And while Whoopi's speech on the stand certainly was dead-on in terms of the accuracy and the points that she was making, I thought her acting was turrible.  

 

The more I think about it the more I feel kind of bad for the social worker guy. I mean sure the guy screwed up but his reasoning that he went there for months and the kids were healthy and safe every time he was there was interesting. While I don't think he should have ignored them, spending time with other families that were more at risk seemed like a reasonable way for him to handle his situation. It would have been interesting if he had mentioned the other cases, where kids didn't die because he spent his limited amount of time with them. Plus the fact that it seemed he would do more prison time than either of his bosses kind of bugs me.

[candall]

Whoopi drove me away from The View and--grudgeholder that I am--I wasn't looking forward to her getting all up in my primetime.  But damn, I forgot she can act.  I thought she really sold a difficult character--heinous, but with a message demanding respect.

 

I always liked her serious roles more than her Jumpin' Jack Flash stuff.  Her L&O:CI episode is historic.

[Calamity Jane]

The more I think about it the more I feel kind of bad for the social worker guy. I mean sure the guy screwed up but his reasoning that he went there for months and the kids were healthy and safe every time he was there was interesting. While I don't think he should have ignored them, spending time with other families that were more at risk seemed like a reasonable way for him to handle his situation. It would have been interesting if he had mentioned the other cases, where kids didn't die because he spent his limited amount of time with them. Plus the fact that it seemed he would do more prison time than either of his bosses kind of bugs me.

I thought that was a really bad decision that ignored the point that the higher-ups were complicit in creating the impossible situation the social worker faced, over which he had no power at all. 

 

I was curious about the missing paperwork, too.  In California, mental health notes for clients who are on Medi-Cal (presumably most of these people would be in that income range) are required within quite a short time span or no money is paid to the agency.  This has the advantage of making sure paperwork never gets out of date, and also functions as a sort of automatic audit that work is being accomplished.  Slackers and fiction writers tend to get caught fairly quickly.  (Supervisor has to sign off on each note.) If New York doesn't have something similar in place for social workers, maybe they should.  Of course, it's TV, so who knows.

[RCharter]

Whoopi drove me away from The View and--grudgeholder that I am--I wasn't looking forward to her getting all up in my primetime.  But damn, I forgot she can act.  I thought she really sold a difficult character--heinous, but with a message demanding respect.

 

I always liked her serious roles more than her Jumpin' Jack Flash stuff.  Her L&O:CI episode is historic.

Whoopi will always be Ciely to me.  Always.  And I'll always have a little hate in my heart for Danny Glover

[shksabelle]

"... if the Benson Boyfriend candidates are Tucker, Barba and Dodds?"

Anybody else want to see Benson and Ellis?   Just me?  OK, then.

[candall]

Whoopi will always be Ciely to me.  Always.  And I'll always have a little hate in my heart for Danny Glover

Lol.  A fellow grudgeholder.

[WendyCR72]

I honestly don't give a rat's ass who Benson - or any other members of the squad - shack up with. But that's just me!  :-)

[MorbidPet]

I liked this episode, great improvement from last week. The kid was adorable, and just heartbreaking his sister died.

I liked Whoopi in this. She didn't over act or anything.

Seeing how Barba was raised by two strong female figures that line felt out of character for him. Other than that tough he was just brilliant. I can see him having a career in politics, he does sly so very well.

I wish they would've changed their timeline to fit AR/KG's pregnancy better. Surely they had to realize she would show after the summer hiatus and could've made a better job with it, maybe tried to hide her belly a bit

I can't (and don't want to) imagine Liv with either Dodds or Tucker. Dodds is her boss so that just feels wrong. Tucker should stay the squad's archenemy, that suits him best. I also am hoping Liv will react when she finds out who Rollins' baby daddy is and if she's with Dodds that would just make her a hypocrite

I'm looking forward to seeing Dodds Jr though, can't see that going over well and tension in the squad room is usually great fun

 

I was thinking it is too bad Ben Mckenzie is in Gotham.

They get Donal here and there so who's to say they can't grab Ben too ;) Although Dodds Jr will be a little more regular than Murphy I suspect so they are better off bringing in someone like Andy Karl who can stick around for a bit

[shapeshifter]

Whoopi drove me away from The View and--grudgeholder that I am--I wasn't looking forward to her getting all up in my primetime. But damn, I forgot she can act.

I've only caught a few random episodes of The View, but whenever Whoopi speaks on there, to me it's a like a louder version of "Guinan...the wise bartender...who dispenses insight and wit along with drink orders" from Star Trek: TNG (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001446/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_120), so here she seemed the same to me, but more morally ambiguous. Edited October 12, 2015 by shapeshifter

[solequeene]

Quick question: isn't the NYPD press guy the same one that was working for Muñoz in season 15? Becaus if he is, his animosity towards Barba have an additional layer.

[RafaelBarba35]

Quick question: isn't the NYPD press guy the same one that was working for Muñoz in season 15? Becaus if he is, his animosity towards Barba have an additional layer.

Yep same guy.

[solequeene]

Thank you!

[Monkeybball]

Quick question: isn't the NYPD press guy the same one that was working for Muñoz in season 15? Becaus if he is, his animosity towards Barba have an additional layer.

Okay, YEAH! I've been wondering: Is that an actual on purpose thing that it's really the same person?  Or is it just another one of the SVU "we recycle actors and expect you not to notice/care"thing?  Because isn't he technically a cop? I'm so confused.

[Desperately Random]

Okay, YEAH! I've been wondering: Is that an actual on purpose thing that it's really the same person?  Or is it just another one of the SVU "we recycle actors and expect you not to notice/care"thing?  Because isn't he technically a cop? I'm so confused.

I checked the IMDb and the character is listed as "Hank Abraham" for this episode and four others, including October Surprise. Before that he did play a character named "Robert Sorenson" for three episodes but that was in 2000 and 2001.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0656929/?ref_=tt_cl_t15

Was his job basically as the police press liaison with a title of commissioner? I think those kinds of jobs can be filled by qualified civilians. They do work for the Police Department but are not police officers. Maybe someone else knows more how that works.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Desperately Random

[Bananna]

Quick question: isn't the NYPD press guy the same one that was working for Muñoz in season 15? Becaus if he is, his animosity towards Barba have an additional layer.

I KNEW he seemed familiar

 

Seeing how Barba was raised by two strong female figures that line felt out of character for him.

 

I didn't really read much into that line? I'm just assuming that anything that seems OOC with Barba we're supposed to pin down to those pills?

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that they seem to be drawing more on the political side of things like that guy saying to Liv "you really don't have a political bone in you", I find that sort of stuff indefinitely more interesting that what neverending personal trauma a member of the squad is going through.

[wknt3]

Was his job basically as the police press liaison with a title of commissioner? I think those kinds of jobs can be filled by qualified civilians. They do work for the Police Department but are not police officers. Maybe someone else knows more how that works.

 

Yes, the Police Commissioner and Deputy Commissioners are civilian administrators and do not have to be police officers although they may be. It's sort of like the Secretary of Defense and the military. Only the Police Commissioner and First Deputy Commissioner are in the chain of command and can give orders officially. DCPI is the Deputy Commissioner, Public Information and is basically the Press Secretary for NYPD.

[solequeene]

I absolutely love the political aspect, much more interesting imho.

[Kiss my mutt]

I fully believe that benson would have sacrificed her political aspirations to get to the bottom of the institutional coverup. Was glad to see it didn't though. She doesn't strike me as a real politically motivated person.

She and Dodds together give me the creeps. He can have bushy eyebrows and poorly fitting false teeth but not both. I've always been partial to Liv and Barba or the Irish dude (what was his name?).

Carisi has definitely brought some new energy to the show. I love how affected he is and that he still crosses himself when he finds a dead body,

Liv's hair looks awesome. She just gets prettier and prettier.

[fitzcarraldo]

"... if the Benson Boyfriend candidates are Tucker, Barba and Dodds?"

Anybody else want to see Benson and Ellis? Just me? OK, then.

I want Benson and Ellis too.

[Kiss my mutt]

Yeah, Ellis is pretty sweet.

[mtlchick]

Two really random thoughts:

 

1) I have the same case as Olivia for my phone.

 

2) I'm not sure what it with her wardrobe now.  When she's her suits and jackets it made her seem bigger than she is.  Her first scene in that dress...wowza.  

[marriedaniac]

Raul Esparza got "AND"ed in the credits! :)

[RCharter]

Two really random thoughts:

 

1) I have the same case as Olivia for my phone.

 

2) I'm not sure what it with her wardrobe now.  When she's her suits and jackets it made her seem bigger than she is.  Her first scene in that dress...wowza.  

Even more random thought...

 

Raul Esparza is a dead ringer for my specialist and I cant wait until my HMO approves my referral so I can bring this up at my next appointment.  I plan to have my IPAD pre-loaded with pictures for quick reference and comparison.

[LeGrandElephant]

Ok, I've only watched the first 5 minutes, but I feel like the hardest part of the writers' jobs is justifying why SVU is called in to each case. This time, they not only called SVU for a lost kid, they called in the boss of SVU when she was busy doing something else? Wouldn't they have called Child Protective Services or something like that first? 

Edited November 12, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[DaynaPhile]

Random thoughts...why was there such a huge time gap between eps 3&4? Liv's hair is at least 2 inches longer and I can't even calculate how much bigger Amanda's belly is. Wish my face showed no trace of a pregnancy when I when I was that far along. She looks amazing. Though I'm kinda bummed we didn't get more early pregnancy antics. I liked the moment in the first ep when Carisi was worried about her as tossed her cookies on the beach.

CAN LIV AND BARBA JUST MAKE OUT ALREADY?! Pretty please? I would pay for that. Wait..I think that might be illegal. Also, Barba going straight for the jugular on the press conference, I think I love him even harder now. Which I'm not sure was possible.

Oh, um yeah. Sad case. I tried not to pay attention to the ugly details even though I'm stupidly still watching the show...as a mom I'm having a much harder time with eps involving kids. Which is you know, ALL OF THEM. I swear, since the Connecticut shooting a few years ago, and some other things recently, I don't know why I torture myself with this show before I try to go to bed. I'm giving myself nightmares. It's Esparza's fault.

Is it possible that Dodds is the father of Amanda's baby? Someone guessed maybe his son is the father, I must have glossed over something in the last seasons about who Amanda hooked up with because I'm a little lost about that baby. Either way, I'm sure appointing his son as a sergeant under LIV is gong to be just peachy all around.

Edited January 2, 2016 by DaynaPhile