S04.E03: How Can I Help You Say Goodbye

[Bobcatkitten]

This episode was emotionally rough. I thought the actress playing Scarlett did a great job in that last scene and Deacon in the bedroom was heartbreaking.

I found the prison scenes with Teddy very well done too. And Avery struggling with his marriage. Also Will struggling with being gay openly.

 

It was definitely a downer though. Everyone is sad on this show - except Luke. I love him.

[h2ogirl]

I found it hard to take that Maddie & Daphne were destroying scrapbooks in one minute and then a few minutes later (in the show, i realize it was supposed to be the next day) they were back visiting dad and hugging him.  Really?  They only needed one day?  This show is so frustrating.  I want to like it but ridiculous moments like that keep pulling me out of the story.  And I was really mad at Deacon for abandoning Scarlett. Man up, dude.  

[Clemgo3165]

The thing with Scarlett was very sad to me, though, because I do usually see Scarlett as the one tossed into the world with very little support. Part of that is a narrative construct to make her turn to Gunnar, but part of it also seems true to the character. She has Deacon, that's about it. And I think he really failed her last night. Kudos to her for (wo)manning up, though.

ETA

Re: Maddie. Yes! On a better show, that experience would be huge for Maddie, a really big deal that, in addition to what you said, should give her some real insight into both of her parents, but especially about Rayna. She should gain a much better understanding of Rayna and show some real maturity. But on this show, I worry she'll just get mad, throw a tantrum, and say something mean to someone.

 

I thought so too with regards to Scarlett. He's all she has left and the only connection to family. He should have taken Rayna up on her offer and let her take him over there. He really needed to be with Scarlett, and Bev, at that moment. He's going to regret not being there for her. I do have confidence they'll work through it though.

 

I think she'll get mad, throw a tantrum, and talk her Mom into letting her join Colt on Luke's tour without a chaperone ;)

I found it hard to take that Maddie & Daphne were destroying scrapbooks in one minute and then a few minutes later (in the show, i realize it was supposed to be the next day) they were back visiting dad and hugging him.  Really?  They only needed one day?  This show is so frustrating.  I want to like it but ridiculous moments like that keep pulling me out of the story.  

 

The issue for me wasn't that they only needed one day, but that we didn't see anything happening in between to get us from point A to point B - I had whiplash from those scenes, as good as they were in the moment.

[Artsda]

 

He was her rock during that marriage despite knowing that he was her second choice and that she was still emotionally connected to Deacon (at least at the tail end of their marriage. Not sure it was this way throughout).

 

Which is why Rayna didn't deserve his loyalty or his taking the fall for her and Tandy. Teddy should have let Tandy fall and Rayna's 0 artist company that she can keep. 

 

Daphne would have been better off with Teddy in her life than Rayna/Tandy.

[madam magpie]

I thought so too with regards to Scarlett. He's all she has left and the only connection to family. He should have taken Rayna up on her offer and let her take him over there. He really needed to be with Scarlett, and Bev, at that moment. He's going to regret not being there for her. I do have confidence they'll work through it though.

I think she'll get mad, throw a tantrum, and talk her Mom into letting her join Colt on Luke's tour without a chaperone ;)

Re: Maddie. Oh lord.

Re: Scarlett. Yes, agreed. Or I even wish Rayna had just gone herself. One of the character flaws of this show is that Rayna's sense of compassion and family doesn't consistently extend to Scarlett. Rayna has known Scarlett since she was born. The girl is basically her niece, and has been all her life. Now Scarlett works on Rayna's label. Yet Rayna feels no need to insist that someone actually be there when Scarlett pulls the plug on her mother, knowing full well that Scarlett has no one but Deacon?? Maybe Rayna felt sure Deacon was going and it will come up again later that they never should have left Scarlett to do that all alone. But I wouldn't put it past the show not to go there. Scarlett and Daphne really seem to draw the short straws in this family, but I don't actually think the writers mean for us to think that, if that makes sense.

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[Clemgo3165]

I actually think this will come up in regards to Scarlett, and I think we're about to get a whole heaping dose of Daphne angst (which I've been waiting for since S2 frankly.) I think Rayna fully expected him to go and perhaps thought that it would be best if it was just a "family" thing, but she's going to be irked when she finds out he didn't show up. And yes, I think you're right that if Rayna really is going to be family to Deacon then she needs to be there for Scarlett as well.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Parting's Not Such Sweet Sorrow On Nashville
And there's more than one tear-stained goodbye this week.

[jjj]

I don't know if they used a different baby for Cadence, but I do agree that last week's baby was incredibly adorable, and this week's baby was...... just a baby. I did like the nickname "Cady" that Will used, but I guess Avery did not!

I liked that another poster thought it was "CD" -- another great name for a musical offspring (from the 1990s!). 

[Stella MD]

 

The issue for me wasn't that they only needed one day, but that we didn't see anything happening in between to get us from point A to point B - I had whiplash from those scenes, as good as they were in the moment.

Didn't we? I thought St. Rayna's impassioned speech about how they were a family is what made the girls do a complete 180. Not that it wasn't trite and saccharine and too easily wrapped up in a neat little bow, but that's usually how this show writes for St. Rayna.

[madam magpie]

I think her speech shamed them, but no. She'd clearly already talked to them and convinced them to go back and see Teddy again in prison. I'd have preferred to see that scene instead of Kevin's judgey friends or Cadence doing so much crying. I don't think any of it was trite at all, but it was fast.

H2ogirl: I hear you about Maddie's lack of maturity. You'd think the writers could just look to Lennon Stella herself to see how teenagers are capable of behaving. I mean...she's right there!

Edited October 8, 2015 by madam magpie

[jazzpno]

Your world adjusts when your last parent goes

 

This is so true. I was very emotional about this episode, and I didn't expect to be. I'm not emotionally invested in Beverly, hell most of the time I'm just listening for the music and looking at pretty, pretty Deacon, but this episode was a heartbreaker in some way for every character, and for me. Some thoughts:

• Yay Indianapolis! So proud of the hometown shout out, though I'm pretty sure the Indy scenes were not shot on location. There are some pretty iconic shots of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and Nashville didn't use any of them.
• Deacon...well Chip Esten...looks DAMN GOOD! He's always been attractive, but something is different. Perhaps a new haircut and a slimmer fit denim shirt. :-)
• I like Will Chase's voice. His falsetto doesn't sound at all like him, but I enjoyed his performance with Juliet. I guess I dislike Luke so much, I've forgotten how talented he is.
• Cadence is adorable, and I usually don't get all gooey over TV babies.
• JJ is hella short! In the scene in Gunnar's kitchen, he looked about 15" shorter than Sam Palladio. If he and Hayden were to actually have a child, it would be truly petite.
• Gunnar pretty much redeemed himself for me this episode. More duets, please.
• I want to see Will learn to navigate his new life. This show needs at least one happy couple. One. At least.
• Juliet, you in trouble, gurl!

[anonymiss]

I'm so glad to be done with Beverly because I didn't care when she was alive. I'm glad her death has progressed the story to allow the start of redemption for Teddy who I've always liked for the reasons Rayna credited him for. 

 

It also gave a predictable excuse for Gunnar and Scarlett to reconnect. Yawn. It's so transparent. I'd like to be surprised and for the writers' predictable plans not to take so long.

 

That's why Juliette who they are wasting and even Layla and Will are much more interesting.

Edited October 8, 2015 by anonymiss

[SailingBy]

In other news, did anyone notice that Cadence was a different baby tonight?? She was...right?

 

I haven't seen this episode yet (nor would I be able to tell the difference, probably), but that would be part of normal practice. There are extremely strict rules about how much time underage actors are allowed to be filmed, because of child labor laws, and past abuses of child actors. The younger they are, the lower the time limit. So for a baby, the time you can show them on camera (I first wrote "you can shoot them", then realized how awful that sounds) is very limited indeed. That's why identical twins are popular with TV or movie producers, to portray just one small child: you can get double the on-camera time out of them. Or why preposterously obvious dummies are used instead of real children.

Edited October 8, 2015 by SailingBy

[DeLurker]

I'm so glad to be done with Beverly because I didn't care when she was alive. I'm glad her death has progressed the story to allow the start of redemption for Teddy who I've always liked for the reasons Rayna credited him for. 

 

It also gave a predictable excuse for Gunnar and Scarlett to reconnect. Yawn. It's so transparent. I'd like to be surprised and for the writers' predictable plans not to take so long.

 

That's why Juliette who they are wasting and even Layla and Will are much more interesting.

Hopefully we won't be treated to the Ghost of Beverly nor Beverly flashbacks.  Because I am so ready to have seen the last of her.  I don't want to hear about her either, but I am guessing that I am SOL on that one.

 

Gunnar and Scarlett will reconnect - to no ones surprise.  They'll probably get 2 happy episodes before a new triangle takes place or one of them contracts an incurable disease.

[izabella]

I'm really disappointed in Deacon.  He should have been there with Scarlett, because that's what family does.  Even if he believes he's totally 100% responsible for Bev's death and can't stand himself for it, he should still be there to see it through. I'm tired of seeing him wallow in his own guilt and make things 10x worse for his loved ones in the process.   Therapy, Deacon - I know you think you're handling it on your own, but you're not. 

 

Rayna's speech in the prison about Teddy as a husband and father was wonderful, and I was glad she did that.  There are a lot of things about Teddy to dislike or even loathe, but he has always been a good father, the most consistent and present parent, and he loves those girls.  He was also there for Rayna when she needed him, and she was glad to have him for all those years even knowing the score with Deacon.  It was a perfect time to acknowledge it for the sake of his relationship with his daughters.

 

Avery should have signed those divorce papers and filed.  Nothing makes Juliette want something more than being told she can't have it and it's being taken away.  But that's not really how he wants her back, I suppose - he wants her to want to be there. 

 

Have they actually said the words "post-partum depression" in relation to Juliette?  Avery said in this episode that "she's sick," and I kinda assumed it was PPD plus an unhealthy dose of Juliette Personality Disorder developed as a child what that mothers of hers.  But I don't remember anyone actually saying PPD on the show.

 

Will may be slooooowwwww at adjusting to himself, but he is opening up to his sweetheart.  I was so glad he could tell his boyfriend what he was thinking and feeling - confused, not speaking out because he didn't know what to say, everything.  And then Will told him "I love you"!!   That's great progress for a guy who wasn't honest about himself and his feelings with anyone when we first met him.  I'm glad his boyfriend is being supportive and accepting of Will as he struggles right now.  I like how this is unfolding.

 

ETA - I did not like Will's boyfriend's friend shouting at him about not speaking out.  If she's so concerned about changing things, maybe she should have gotten to know Will and ask some questions so she could understand how he feels as a gay country singer who just came out and actually listen to him rather than thinking of him as the poster boy.  Maybe she could discuss her views with him.  Accusing him of not doing enough already was obnoxious and presumptive. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by izabella

[missbonnie]

Con: I'm in it for venue and adult soap, not family soap, so the "daughters" segments have always been the least interesting to me. (I know, I know, I'm a monster.)

You aren't alone, I can easily enjoy this show without ever seeing or hearing those girls again. And for the record, I have two nieces that sing a lot better than they do. They aren't bad, but they aren't everything this show seems to want us to believe they are, IMO anyway.

Edited October 9, 2015 by missbonnie

[Bringonthedrama]

 

Someone on the board mentioned last week that Deacon=Juliette and Rayna=Avery.  We are seeing Juliette at her worst, and many people are calling for Avery to dump her.  Deacon created every bit as much chaos in Rayna's life.  We just never saw it because it occurred before the series began.  

 

I get the comparison in that Juliette is destructive like Deacon, but I don't think the situations are at all similar. When Deacon was causing chaos in Rayna's life, he was 'just' the boyfriend/fiance - they weren't married and did not already have a child to consider. Rayna had decided it was over with Deacon and that she would marry Teddy at the time she was pregnant with Maddie. Juliette has quite literally - very knowingly - walked away from her legal and moral obligation to her infant daughter and her husband. Ditching the cell phone number Avery had for her so he couldn't call made my jaw drop. When she returned home, her first instinct was to throw a party instead of vowing to make a heartfelt apology to her husband and promising him that she would work to be a good mother because Cadence deserves that. She only kicked the party people out because Avery showed up and was furious - it was like a dad coming home and his teenager thinking, "oh shit, I'm caught, everybody out!" She's dismissed the vows she quite recently made to Avery because she's still fame hungry and singing comes easy to her, while marriage and motherhood take hard work that she doesn't want to do. It seems like she might be willing to be a mom and wife - if she gets to do so on her terms.

[Madding crowd]

I think the show has done a good job so far this season. I'm a fan of Rayna's and I liked how she handled things with her girls and with Teddy. I could feel her sadness when the girls were tearing up pictures; I would feel like I was losing part of my life too. I don't expect Rayna to take Deacon's place with Scarlet.  Scarlet didn't grow up with Deacon and Rayna and they don't have that family relationship. I got the impression she only recently came to Nashville and probably only saw Rayna a few times before that.

 

Juliette is continuing to be an annoying brat. What would happen if Cadence became ill? Avery couldn't even contact her. That is beyond evil. I was happy to see that Luke wasn't indulging her and hope he realizes her drinking and partying won't be good for her career. Ask any singer/actor what happens when they drink too much, it all goes away.

 

To whoever mentioned how short Avery (Jonathan Jackson) is, I met him in person last year at a small bar concert in Milwaukee. I had my picture taken with him and I was at least a couple of inches taller and I'm 5'6. So he kind of goes well with tiny Juliette and Scarlet.

[thuganomics85]

At least we got a brief scene of "Three Nashville Men and a Baby", with Avery, Will, and Gunnar passing Cadence around.  Besides that, the only real light moments came from Luke Wheeler of all people.  I actually enjoyed him and Juliette rocking out, when I could look past the fact that all of it was because Juliette was hiding from her responsibilities.

 

Besides that, a pretty depressing episode.  Figured Bev was a goner, and that Scarlett deciding to end her suffering, was going to cause Deacon to flip out.  I understand that he's upset, but it really sucks that he wasn't there for Scarlett at the end.  And I suspect this going to lead to more angsty Deacon again.  I just hope he doesn't fall off the wagon again.  That's one subplot that I don't want to see a retread of.  As for Scarlett, I'm sure this is going to make her grow closer to Gunnar again, if that scene in the church was any indication.

 

Good to finally check it on Teddy again.  Even if Rayna's speech was obviously ignoring all of his bad qualities, there was truth to it.  No matter what the issues were, he truly loved both Daphine and Maddie, and was always there for them.  And even after the divorce, I do think he always respected Rayna, even when they got into fights.  He probably does deserve to be locked up, but I'm glad his relationship with his daughters isn't done for.

 

Emily!  Glad to see her back.  I liked her scenes with Avery, but I really hope they don't go there.  If nothing else, the state she's in, Juliette would totally murder her.

 

Hate to say it, but I really wanted Avery to sign the divorce papers.  The idea of losing both him and her baby, might be the push Juliette needed.  Instead, Juliette briefly listens to Luke, but seems to be back at it, and Avery now has the papers in an unlocked drawer, so Juliette or someone else will probably find them.  Probably at a time where they are slowly getting it together, and then this will blow that all up.  In other words, Classic Nashville!

 

I just feel bad for Will.  Dude is getting attacked on all sides.  While there is truth to what she was saying, I really didn't like how it seemed Kevin's friend was automatically sarcastic and then hostile with Will.  She didn't even try to talk to him about it, and see if they can find common ground.  I really don't blame Will for getting mad with her.  She seems kind of like a jerk, to be honest.

 

Despite the depressing soap, the acting was top-notch in this one.  Probably the best I found Clare Bowen to be.  Charles Esten was probably the stand-out, but that isn't surprising.  Even Hayden Panettiere is.... doing what she can with this material.

Edited October 9, 2015 by thuganomics85

[MisterS]

God this show is all so MISERABLE. I can deal with the soap, but some light and shade would be much better. Kudos to everybody's acting though, as usual.

I agree that Deacon behaved badly, but given the relentless bad news he is having to deal with, it's hardly surprising. I think the way he behaved was true to character. Following the character assassination of Juliette he is the most well developed character on the show. Shame that he has to fall out with Scarlett though as she doesn't really have anyone else and they are good together.

I did like the R/D scene - they always seem so real to me. I would have preferred Rayna to have been around more through the Bev crisis, and it would have been more realistic if she had. Of course she was mostly trapped in the silo of another of the very many storylines.

Overall it would have been better if Bev hadn't died and everyone was able to get on with being music professionals and dealing with day to day issues. But that isn't how Nashville works and it would take a level of sophistication in the writing that isn't there.

The Luke/Juliette duet was embarrassing. I don't see the point of Luke at all. His pep talk to Juliette could have been given by anyone and she ignored it in any case.

I liked Will's story in this episode. I don't necessarily agree that he should be a spokesperson for gay country musicians but it rang true that parts of the gay community might take that view.

Happy not to see Layla. I like her voice but that's about it.

Was it me or were the scenes longer this week? That would be a good thing.

[airwair]

So now that I've calmed down from what I found to be a completely absurd episode, I also have to vent about Rayna's praise St. Teddy sermon.

While it could be argued that she did it more for show so Daphne could feel better or something, I doubt it. Her reaction to the girls ripping up the photos says that she honestly feels that way.

I get that Teddy was a stable husband. I get that he went to soccer games and was there for scraped knees. But I've also seen the petty, immature, manipulative, downright stupid side of him one too many times on this show for me to EVER think he deserves any kind of ego boost.

As someone above said, he's in jail for paying off a hooker with city funds and hiding it. Tandy is just a side issue. He also skated away with embezzling $2 million, lest we forget. Then there was the time he all but murdered his daughter's grandfather.

His behavior re: Maddie has been atrocious at best. He used her time with Deacon as leverage in punishment. He takes away her music instead of time with friends/computer/other normal grounding activities because he knows that's her biggest connection to Deacon. Until Deacon got sick and got back with Rayna, he fought his daughter's relationship with the father she never knew she had at every corner. Of course you could pull out the age old argument of "but Deacon was a wasted demonic monster" and Teddy was the white knight, but to this day I can't see hiding the parentage to be the right and moral thing to do, especially if you continued to be as close to Deacon as Rayna was. Teddy fighting the situation after it blew up was nothing but petty insecurity on his part and I don't find it admirable.

All that said, I'm glad he's going away indefinitely so we can stop hearing about what an amazing person he is at every corner and hopefully Deacon has a chance to pull himself out of his over the top mourning and self-pity long enough to step up and prove to all of us what a great dad we know he can be without Teddy meddling and announcing "I'M THE FATHER" every time he enters a room.

ETA: lest we also forget how he signed Maddie over to Jeff Fordham to protect himself. I so wanted Rayna to stick to her guns and have Deacon instated legally. But nope. Poor Teddy. You can have her back even though you just tried to whore her out to a label.

Edited October 9, 2015 by airwair

[smiley13]

Following the character assassination of Juliette he is the most well developed character on the show. 

What character assassination?  She is still the same self centered, stone cold witch she has always been.  I recall how hateful she was to Rayna in the first episode.  

[airwair]

What character assassination? She is still the same self centered, stone cold witch she has always been. I recall how hateful she was to Rayna in the first episode.

She's always been a self centered witch, but there was a vulnerable, real side to her that I think people could empathize with and want to root for while hoping she could get her life together.

There is character assassination in that now there are a great many of us who can never root for her again. There's no way possible for this show to "fix" her and it be even remotely plausible or believable. And frankly she's been so horrid in regards to her family that I don't want them to even try.

I care more about Jeff than Juliette these days and that is so far beyond comprehension.

[MisterS]

She's always been a self centered witch, but there was a vulnerable, real side to her that I think people could empathize with and want to root for while hoping she could get her life together.

There is character assassination in that now there are a great many of us who can never root for her again. There's no way possible for this show to "fix" her and it be even remotely plausible or believable. And frankly she's been so horrid in regards to her family that I don't want them to even try.

That's exactly what I meant; couldn't have said it better! She was horribly flawed but relatable. Now she's so ridiculous that I have stopped caring. I do think that Hayden P is doing well with the shoddy material she's given these days but she can't totally save the character.

[Sutton]

AIRWAIR if I could have given you more then one thumbs up on your 4:26am post I would have. You were right on with all the bad things Teddy did but the writers on this series don't remember what they wrote in seasons #1 and 2 or they just don't care. I can feel for Daphne but hearing the truth that Teddy was guilty and is now paying for his mistakes is better then making him out to be the best Dad ever. The reason Rayna had to go back on tour is that Teddy lost most of her money on bad deals and what was his comment on that we are rich but cash poor.

I don't know what direction Nashville is taking but for me a once true fan I now record it and FF on the mundane stuff.

[Ashley87]

Hi Everyone. I've just joined this forum. I like Nashville especially Rayna and Deacon (well Deacon really). This last episode was so miserable. The thing that bugged me was the conversation between Teddy and Rayna which was so inexplicable. Here was Rayna telling Teddy what a great husband and father he was when the last run in she had with him, he was signing Maddie to Jeff Fordham's label behind her and Maddie's back. So that's being a good father and husband is it? I sometimes wonder if these writers ever remember what they've previously written! Not to mention all the other underhand stuff he's done. I'll never forget how he maliciously screwed Deacon after the car accident, by making sure his bail money was ridiculously high. I know we are suppose to view the scene as an act of forgiveness with the possibility of helping Maddie and Daphne to reconcile everything, but for me Rayna went too far. In the same episode we have poor Deacon trying to cope with his sister's death (that he inadvertently caused) and instead of Rayna comforting him, she's got her arms around Teddy's neck telling him what a great guy he is! Crazy or what!

[Halo]

Someone said above that Scarlett was over the top with her emotions for a mother who was abusive and mean to her all her life. I think being in that situation makes it even harder.

You are so right. Without going into personal detail, one of my parents suffered horrible abuse by one of their parents during childhood, and the mental and emotional part of that abuse continued into adulthood. When that grandparent died, my parent was devastated to the point of breakdown. It is impossible to predict the emotional fallout from losing a parent, even a bad one. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by Halo

[h2ogirl]

Best part of this episode for me was No Jeff.  Thanks for the reminders about what an awful person Teddy is.  I had forgotten about him selling off the girls to Jeff, as did the writers, apparently.  

[Wilco]

She's always been a self centered witch, but there was a vulnerable, real side to her that I think people could empathize with and want to root for while hoping she could get her life together.

There is character assassination in that now there are a great many of us who can never root for her again. There's no way possible for this show to "fix" her and it be even remotely plausible or believable. And frankly she's been so horrid in regards to her family that I don't want them to even try.

 

 

            

  So well said and right there with you. HP is doing a great job, but they are just dragging this out too long that it's losing its effect (if it ever had one). Another poster made some insightful comments about Juliette's lack of trust and being scared of hurting people, so she pushes them away, but seems like we've spent too many episodes seeing her pretending/acting out against this fear being played out-- into too many episodes.This behavior started maybe back to episode 15 or 16, maybe, of last year? And they are making it hard for the viewers to see the difference between her 'sickness' and just her plain built in guardedness/bitchiness. It looks like it's going to go at least another 3 or 4 episodes and it's redundant. We get it- she's miserable- she's drinking, probably drugs, bad entourage, whatever. Would much prefer they actually show Juliette in therapy- talking through her problems, what happened to her, etc than all of the gratuitous scenes of bad behavior.

 

And this show continues to go down in the ratings-- don't think they will have another season so hopefully they know what they are doing with this character with the time they have left.

 

Did not care at all for the Luke/Juliette duet. Why is Luke here? Did not miss Layla or Jeff- but looks like we get a lot of them next week.

 

On other fronts, thought Chip Esten and Clare Bowen did great work in their scenes, but I just wasn't that affected because I never cared about Beverly.

 

Enjoying the 3 guys and a baby, I hope we get some music from the 3 of them at the house. Those group singing/jam sessions with Gunnary and Avery have been some of my favorite musical segments in the past.

 

Still rooting for this show- prepared to go down with the ship-but Nashville, the way it's going, you sure are helping me say goodbye more easily.

[ASpring1900]

I really enjoyed the Luke and Juliette duet! I'm a suck for covers. I had pleasant flashbacks of Will in Rent as Roger.

[TWP]

Am I the only one who's rooting for Avery and Emily?  What a cute couple! especially with that baby.  Wow.  Adorable.

[madam magpie]

Am I the only one who's rooting for Avery and Emily? What a cute couple! especially with that baby. Wow. Adorable.

No. I like it too! I think I'll especially be on board next week after Juliette calls Emily a back-stabbing whore.

Edited October 9, 2015 by madam magpie

[Soup333]

 And this show continues to go down in the ratings-- don't think they will have another season so hopefully they know what they are doing with this character with the time they have left.

 

Still rooting for this show- prepared to go down with the ship-but Nashville, the way it's going, you sure are helping me say goodbye more easily.

 

This is the true tragedy to me. They had time, plenty of time, to pull out of this tailspin and rethink the direction of the show. I think reviewers and fans have been pretty vocal about their hopes for S4. I mean, we freaking made a list of things we wanted to see! But these writers/showrunners are doggedly committed to the direction they've taken. These characters are stagnant or, in Juliette's case, have regressed to a point where she is almost unrecognizable. Every storyline in this episode was depressing. We didn't see Layla this week, but hers isn't a bucket of rainbows either. There is no levity. No bright spot. Even with Rayna and Deacon finally together and him cured of cancer, we are mired in yet another morose storyline that is sucking any joy out of watching their relationship. 

 

People write how they are here for Connie or Chip or Hayden or JJ but the draw of the actors is clearly not enough to help the ratings. It's sad to watch a show that used to be "must see TV" for me drop so far down in the ratings. I can't fathom that SOMEBODY among those involved didn't say, "Wait a minute, guys. Maybe we should rethink..."  

[izabella]

Drama shows all think they need to be constant drama or even constant trauma.  They don't leave enough room for the smaller stories to happen nor for progressive character development.  It's just jump from one dramatic crisis to another.  It's too bad this show has done that route.  No fun.

[Halo]

Yes, I would much rather watch the business machinations than suffer through ridiculous relationship drama over and over. Does Highway 65 really even exist anymore?

[Bringonthedrama]

So now that I've calmed down from what I found to be a completely absurd episode, I also have to vent about Rayna's praise St. Teddy sermon.

While it could be argued that she did it more for show so Daphne could feel better or something, I doubt it. Her reaction to the girls ripping up the photos says that she honestly feels that way.

I get that Teddy was a stable husband. I get that he went to soccer games and was there for scraped knees. But I've also seen the petty, immature, manipulative, downright stupid side of him one too many times on this show for me to EVER think he deserves any kind of ego boost.

 

I didn't see it as Rayna trying to give him an ego boost - more that she wanted the girls to part from him on good terms right now while he's in prison because they were all crying during the last visit, with Daphne lashing out. Rayna later finds them tearing up family pics and reacts. Her speech came across like telling him and their girls that in the long-term (including their history before the show's pilot) Teddy was a supportive husband and devoted father, still deserving of their love despite terrible mistakes. Going to jail now is not the defining moment in his life, which seemed to be the girls' reaction in their state of anger and hurt. (Yes, Deacon has formed a dad-daughter bond with Maddie recently and has been a presence in all their lives for a long time, *but* he didn't have husband and dad responsibilities to fulfill over the what, 16? years they've been raising Maddie.) 

[Clemgo3165]

In fairness to Deacon, he didn't have Dad responsibilities with Maddie for the first 13 years of her life because Rayna and Teddy kept that information from both of them.

[airwair]

In fairness to Deacon, he didn't have Dad responsibilities with Maddie for the first 13 years of her life because Rayna and Teddy kept that information from both of them.

Exactly. I don't know why people don't seem to understand this and constantly make it out like Deacon shirked his responsibilities by choice.

That's what Juliette is for.

[airwair]

I didn't see it as Rayna trying to give him an ego boost - more that she wanted the girls to part from him on good terms right now while he's in prison because they were all crying during the last visit, with Daphne lashing out. Rayna later finds them tearing up family pics and reacts. Her speech came across like telling him and their girls that in the long-term (including their history before the show's pilot) Teddy was a supportive husband and devoted father, still deserving of their love despite terrible mistakes. Going to jail now is not the defining moment in his life, which seemed to be the girls' reaction in their state of anger and hurt. (Yes, Deacon has formed a dad-daughter bond with Maddie recently and has been a presence in all their lives for a long time, *but* he didn't have husband and dad responsibilities to fulfill over the what, 16? years they've been raising Maddie.)

I mean... I don't know. The mistakes that Teddy made day in and day out affected his family immensely. He drained their bank accounts and therefore kept Rayna on the road and in the studio. He embezzled millions. He didn't call for help when Lamar had a heart attack. He sold Maddie out to a label. He used city funds to pay a hooker. I could go on and on and on but I don't think it's necessary.

On the surface he was loving and supportive and that's all fine and dandy, but as a whole I think he has put these girls in a worse situation and endangered them just as badly as deadbeat demon Deacon ever could have.

Now he's paying for his misdeeds (as he should) and Daphne is worse for wear because of it, because just as an alcoholic sometimes can't let their love of family overcome their love of the drink, Teddy couldn't let the love for his family overcome his need to be a selfish fool.

[madam magpie]

In regard to what Teddy provided for Rayna and the kids, though, I don't see how Deacon's hurt is relevant. This particular situation isn't about Deacon. There are multiple issues and multiple hurts, and none of them cancel each other out. Teddy is clearly very important to Maddie and Daphne. He's the only father Daphne has, and he was one of Maddie's primary parents for most of her life. That doesn't just vanish for everyone because Deacon finally found out the truth or even because Teddy has been a grade A asshole in the past. Almost without fail, I think fixing the family is on Rayna. The others have to engage, but she has to facilitate and preserve all the relationships. Not because she's a horrible person either or because she's an unforgivable liar, but because she's the lynchpin. She owes everyone involved something, and she's the one whose behavior touched everyone. All she did in that scene was own that responsibility. Nothing is taken from Deacon if Maddie doesn't hate Teddy, but a lot is given to Maddie. And for Daphne, Teddy is the most important man in her life. She needs to know that her mother (the most important woman in her life) still believes that so that she isn't totally screwed up. That was Rayna mommying like a boss.

Edited October 11, 2015 by madam magpie

[FortKnox]

Avery's lawyer - I don't think Avery getting full custody would be that hard.

You'd be surprised. Much if the time, at least in Tennessee, men are massively discriminated against in family court and cheating, crazy wives can often be nicely rewarded for their behavior.

And I can see Juliette using all her money and power to keep her baby just because.

[Bringonthedrama]

. He didn't call for help when Lamar had a heart attack. He sold Maddie out to a label. He used city funds to pay a hooker. I could go on and on and on but I don't think it's necessary.

On the surface he was loving and supportive and that's all fine and dandy, but as a whole I think he has put these girls in a worse situation and endangered them just as badly as deadbeat demon Deacon ever could have.

Now he's paying for his misdeeds (as he should) and Daphne is worse for wear because of it,

Does Rayna even know that Teddy didn't call 911 for Lamar? The only confrontation I remember was between Rayna and Lamar, about the assassin he paid who went after Teddy but killed his wife instead. 

 

You think Teddy put his family in a worse situation than Deacon could have, but it seems to me that Rayna does not think that way. She saw Teddy as stable and without any substance abuse issues, unlike Deacon. But some of Rayna's praise of him may also be fueled by underlying guilt that so much emphasis has been placed on "Deacon is Maddie's 'real' father" (by Maddie, the press, etc) since the reveal, esp. considering Teddy did all the 'heavy lifting' as dad of both girls all these years. Also, Daphne was sort of an outsider in the 'Maddie is the love child of country singers Rayna and Deacon' storyline reveal/on TV publicity. Rayna must feel kinda crappy about the bio father of one child being a country star recovering from cancer while the bio father of her other child is in prison for crimes and that child is being bullied as a result of the press about it.

[Clemgo3165]

In regard to what Teddy provided for Rayna and the kids, though, I don't see how Deacon's hurt is relevant. This particular situation isn't about Deacon. There are multiple issues and multiple hurts, and none of them cancel each other out. Teddy is clearly very important to Maddie and Daphne. He's the only father Daphne has, and he was one of Maddie's primary parents for most of her life. That doesn't just vanish for everyone because Deacon finally found out the truth or even because Teddy has been a grade A asshole in the past. Almost without fail, I think fixing the family is on Rayna. The others have to engage, but she has to facilitate and preserve all the relationships. Not because she's a horrible person either or because she's an unforgivable liar, but because she's the lynchpin. She owes everyone involved something, and she's the one whose behavior touched everyone. All she did in that scene was own that responsibility. Nothing is taken from Deacon if Maddie doesn't hate Teddy, but a lot is given to Maddie. And for Daphne, Teddy is the most important man in her life. She needs to know that her mother (the most important woman in her life) still believes that so that she isn't totally screwed up. That was Rayna mommying like a boss.

It only became relevant to me when it was brought up in a previous post. It just bugs when it's made to seem that Deacon somehow shirked his responsibilities with Maddie when that info was withheld from him. Teddy's been a good parent, but he's not a saint.

We've already agreed that we see things differently on the rest, so I'll leave it at that.

[Clemgo3165]

Does Rayna even know that Teddy didn't call 911 for Lamar? The only confrontation I remember was between Rayna and Lamar, about the assassin he paid who went after Teddy but killed his wife instead.

You think Teddy put his family in a worse situation than Deacon could have, but it seems to me that Rayna does not think that way. She saw Teddy as stable and without any substance abuse issues, unlike Deacon. But some of Rayna's praise of him may also be fueled by underlying guilt that so much emphasis has been placed on "Deacon is Maddie's 'real' father" (by Maddie, the press, etc) since the reveal, esp. considering Teddy did all the 'heavy lifting' as dad of both girls all these years. Also, Daphne was sort of an outsider in the 'Maddie is the love child of country singers Rayna and Deacon' storyline reveal/on TV publicity. Rayna must feel kinda crappy about the bio father of one child being a country star recovering from cancer while the bio father of her other child is in prison for crimes and that child is being bullied as a result of the press about it.

I don't think anybody but Teddy, Lamar, and the audience know about that. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

And let's remember that Teddy CHOSE to do that heavy lifting and fought tooth and nail to keep Deacon from finding out about Maddie, and then wasn't exactly supportive of Maddie actually getting to know her bio-Dad.

I honestly don't think the Deacon reveal had anything to do with Rayna's talk, it was the disillusionment of her girls that led to that. She wants them to still love and respect their Dad regardless of Deacon's place in their lives.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Clemgo3165

[madam magpie]

I didn't get that anyone said Deacon shirked anything. He wasn't the husband/father for most of Maddie's life. That's just what's true in the story. The "why" matters for some of the characters, but I don't see that it defines everything. It certainly means either everything or nothing for Daphne. On the one hand, she only exists because Rayna lied to Deacon. The ethical dilemma of that for Rayna should be huge; I wish the show would let her explore it. On the other hand, Daphne has a father that's got nothing to do with Deacon. Rayna has as much a responsibility to Daphne and her needs/emotional wellbeing as she does to Maddie I think, even if Daphne's parental situation is more clearly defined. That also had nothing to do with Deacon.

As for Teddy and Lamar, I actually think we're supposed to forget about that. It was totally ridiculous and inconsistent with the character. Sort of like how we're supposed to forget that Beverly was a total psycho. To me, that's a flaw of the writing, so I'll admit that I don't blame Teddy for it.

Edited October 11, 2015 by madam magpie

[airwair]

Does Rayna even know that Teddy didn't call 911 for Lamar? The only confrontation I remember was between Rayna and Lamar, about the assassin he paid who went after Teddy but killed his wife instead.

You think Teddy put his family in a worse situation than Deacon could have, but it seems to me that Rayna does not think that way. She saw Teddy as stable and without any substance abuse issues, unlike Deacon. But some of Rayna's praise of him may also be fueled by underlying guilt that so much emphasis has been placed on "Deacon is Maddie's 'real' father" (by Maddie, the press, etc) since the reveal, esp. considering Teddy did all the 'heavy lifting' as dad of both girls all these years. Also, Daphne was sort of an outsider in the 'Maddie is the love child of country singers Rayna and Deacon' storyline reveal/on TV publicity. Rayna must feel kinda crappy about the bio father of one child being a country star recovering from cancer while the bio father of her other child is in prison for crimes and that child is being bullied as a result of the press about it.

I'm not sure it matters if Rayna knows about Lamar or not. The point is he allowed his daughters grandfather to die while he purposely did nothing about it. Whatever he thought Lamar was, his daughters loved their grandfather. He wasn't thinking of that or them or how they would be affected when he watched him have a heart attack--he was thinking of himself and his own vengeance.

He's thought of himself over the girls a lot during the run of the show.

Again, I'll say that he's shown up for soccer games and tucked the girls in at night and whatever. All of that is happy butterfly rainbows and we should praise him for it.

But his misdeeds will shape the girls far more than any of that, in some shape way or form.

[Bringonthedrama]

I don't think anybody but Teddy, Lamar, and the audience know about that. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.

And let's remember that Teddy CHOSE to do that heavy lifting and fought tooth and nail to keep Deacon from finding out about Maddie, and then wasn't exactly supportive of Maddie actually getting to know her bio-Dad.

I honestly don't think the Deacon reveal had anything to do with Rayna's talk, it was the disillusionment of her girls that led to that. She wants them to still love and respect their Dad regardless of Deacon's place in their lives.

True, but Rayna couldn't count that on a list of potential grievances toward Teddy (if she wanted to call him out on the past right now) when she doesn't know about it.

 

Yes, Teddy chose to do the heavy lifting ... but we live in a world where men often totally abandon, or at least shirk responsibility for raising their own children (yes, I know Deacon didn't know Maddie was his), let alone embrace raising other men's children. Whatever Rayna's feelings about both men, her secret and Teddy's feelings about it all, she clearly feels grateful that he chose to take on the role of Maddie's father.

 

I think the Deacon factor could have been in the back of her mind because Daphne was sweet and adoring toward Teddy whereas Maddie was standoffish - until they left in a hurry because of Daphne's outburst, which really upset both her parents. Then we get "He's NOT my father!" from Maddie and the next thing you know Rayna has them back visiting Teddy so she can heal some of that disillusionment/encourage their love for Teddy.  

[Bringonthedrama]

He's thought of himself over the girls a lot during the run of the show.

 

But that doesn't appear to be the truth from Rayna's perspective/the writing. The other possibility is she thinks the good he's done for them during their lifetimes - both during the show and way before the pilot - either balances out the bad or totally outweighs it. Individual audience members like yourself don't have to agree with Rayna's POV/are free to think she's reflecting on the past with 'rose-tinted glasses.' 

[scra22]

Avery should have signed those divorce papers and filed.  Nothing makes Juliette want something more than being told she can't have it and it's being taken away.  But that's not really how he wants her back, I suppose - he wants her to want to be there. 

 

Have they actually said the words "post-partum depression" in relation to Juliette?  Avery said in this episode that "she's sick," and I kinda assumed it was PPD plus an unhealthy dose of Juliette Personality Disorder developed as a child what that mothers of hers.  But I don't remember anyone actually saying PPD on the show.

 

Sorry if I missed someone else responding to this, but PPD was brought up at the end of season 3 when Avery went to see a doctor, and then they had an intervention and told Juliette they suspected she had it, and she denied it. Rayna also said PPD in episode 1 of this season. It's very poorly written though and seems way over the top. I think she could believably be diagnosed as being bipolar from even before the birth of the baby - and she obviously had a very traumatic childhood and was abused emotionally and perhaps sexually. So IMO her issues run much deeper than PPD and the show needs to address that. It was also why she cheated on Avery with someone who viewed her as trash, self destructing because she thought she was going to lose him. She needs a lot of therapy.

Edited October 11, 2015 by scra22

[Clemgo3165]

I think the Deacon factor could have been in the back of her mind because Daphne was sweet and adoring toward Teddy whereas Maddie was standoffish - until they left in a hurry because of Daphne's outburst, which really upset both her parents. Then we get "He's NOT my father!" from Maddie and the next thing you know Rayna has them back visiting Teddy so she can heal some of that disillusionment/encourage their love for Teddy.

I think it was the girls ripping up the pics that did it. Maddie was already angry with him, it was Daphne who was still defending him. Seeing the two of them tearing up the family photos in the scrapbook is what put Rayna over the edge. Maddie's been using the he's not my father line for two years now.